Hockey, the new XP alerts won't have timers. So long as at least one member of the party is up, as I understand it, the alert won't fail. It might take a while if 4/5 of the players are AFKing it through the alert, but it won't fail per se.
On the other hand, something you said earlier puzzles me. If you "have to" play the missions, you're "done with this game"? Isn't that kind of like saying that if you "have to" circle around the board, you're never going to play Monopoly again, or if you "have to" ante up you're "done with" poker? The missions essentially are the game - that's where the "RPG" part of "MMORPG" is supposed to kick in.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Hockey, the new XP alerts won't have timers. So long as at least one member of the party is up, as I understand it, the alert won't fail. It might take a while if 4/5 of the players are AFKing it through the alert, but it won't fail per se.
On the other hand, something you said earlier puzzles me. If you "have to" play the missions, you're "done with this game"? Isn't that kind of like saying that if you "have to" circle around the board, you're never going to play Monopoly again, or if you "have to" ante up you're "done with" poker? The missions essentially are the game - that's where the "RPG" part of "MMORPG" is supposed to kick in.
The alert won't "fail" however if you cannot defeat the boss it will heal back to full when it leaves combat, which mean s every time it defeats you.
So even without a timer you'll never win and be forced to abandon the alert.
I am a little confused...I never meant to imply *YOU* personally, were forcing me to do anything. That is obviously not within your power :rolleyes:
When I say 'you'...I mean in the broader sense...as in 'those that advocate that players level through missions'.
See the difference??
I'm glad you see the difference, because lately there have been a lot of "rabidly anti mission" people who have been going around pretending people are victimizing them. I'm glad that you're not acting like anyone is victimizing or making you suffer. Keep in mind though that when you directly respond to someone, and use the "you" pronoun, that that person is likely to think that you are in fact referring to them. I hope that clears up any confusion you have about how the word "you" works
Thing is, ANY is too much in my book...and I am sure there are others out there that would agree.
In fact, why even bother?? Just make it so that if you skip the tutorial, you start at level 10. I understand it for new players, but when you just want to throw a freeform together to see how some things work, it is a PITA to have to schlep all over westside killing mobs.
I think you need to ask yourself why you're even bothering to play the game at all. Let's face it, spamming your powers at an npc in a smash alert isn't significantly different from spamming your powers at an npc during a mission. I have to question how you can claim to love one so much, and despise the other one just as much... when ultimately, you're doing the same thing in both. Maybe you're just overreacting to the changes?
Great! Then have fun doing it. Not sure why that should matter at all for anyone else though...
Sometimes people will use their own experiences to try to help others cope with problems they are having. I was also pointing out how very minor the amount of "mission" content that you'll be forced to do is, to emphasize how little worth you put on alerts... if you're not willing to do even the tiniest amount of missions to then spend the rest of your time doing alerts, how much fun can you really be having in alerts?
Hell, even I would eat a small piece of fish if it meant I got to have some nice big juicy burgers
side note: it's also somewhat hypocritical that you state that you believe low levels cause alerts to fail, yet refuse to do any amount of leveling through missions before you start queing for alerts. In a way, these changes will actually be keeping you honest to your own beliefs :P
The alert won't "fail" however if you cannot defeat the boss it will heal back to full when it leaves combat, which mean s every time it defeats you.
So even without a timer you'll never win and be forced to abandon the alert.
Well... if you solo'd the entire alert all the way up to the boss, knowing full well that you wouldn't be able to beat the boss, then you really have no one to blame :P Here's a hint: If all 4 of the others are afk at the start of the alert, just leave and reque.
I think you need to ask yourself why you're even bothering to play the game at all.
Okay, so if I don't enjoy one facet of the game...level up through repetitive, non-challenging missions...I shouldn't play at all???
I enjoy alerts, especially the more challenging alerts. Mostly I enjoy the character creator, and my characters. Long story short, but this is the only game I have ever played which allows me to bring characters to life that I have had for over 25 years.
Let's face it, spamming your powers at an npc in a smash alert isn't significantly different from spamming your powers at an npc during a mission.
In your opinion. In my opinion, they are very different. Going to an NPC to have him/her/it tell you to go and kill 150 weak enemies that pose no threat to you at all is not only boring, but it is unnecessarily time consuming. It is not something I enjoy. You are welcome to have it at it though...
I have to question how you can claim to love one so much, and despise the other one just as much... when ultimately, you're doing the same thing in both. Maybe you're just overreacting to the changes?
Maybe you are mischaracterizing what I am saying??
I don't, and never claimed to, "love" alerts. To me it is a lazy person's way to level through the first several levels, while having a bit of challenge (risk of failure). Can I think of much better gameplay mechanics that I would actually "love"? You bet!! But collecting purple gang clothing in westside over, and over, and over is NOT one of them.
it's also somewhat hypocritical that you state that you believe low levels cause alerts to fail, yet refuse to do any amount of leveling through missions before you start queing for alerts.
Umm...did you actually READ what I posted originally?? I said that *others* blame low level characters for losing in alerts. What I said that I believe is that STUPID PLAYERS lose alerts, not low level characters.
It sounds to me like you have some kind of desire to see low level characters forced out of timed alerts? Why is that?? Because you feel that they hurt your chances of success?? Is that why you are so up on these changes?
I am just curious, because you are engaging in some very disingenuous debate tactics (straw man arguments, red herrings, misrepresenting what I am saying, false dichotomies) for someone that claims to feel the same way about missions vs. alerts. If that is the case, they why are you so vehemently for these changes??
Personally, these changes will mean that I cannot decide to just throw a character together and have fun getting that character up to the point where he/she/it has reach the level in which they start to be fun to play. Again, if the alternatives are schlepping all over the map killing hundreds of non-challenging NPCs for very low XP rewards, or doing Grab alerts that take 10-20 minutes each for low XP rewards, it is not going to hold my interest for very long. And while you might not object to doing it, there are many of us that will. But hey, as long as you get what you want out of the game, why worry about the rest of the paying subscribers...even if their choice of play style has no direct effect on you, right??
something you said earlier puzzles me. If you "have to" play the missions, you're "done with this game"? Isn't that kind of like saying that if you "have to" circle around the board, you're never going to play Monopoly again, or if you "have to" ante up you're "done with" poker? The missions essentially are the game - that's where the "RPG" part of "MMORPG" is supposed to kick in.
It would be more like:
You can play Monopoly, but you have to move 1 space at a time for the first 250 trips around the board...then you can roll the dice.
or
You can play Poker, but you are only allowed 2 cards for the first 250 hands...then you can draw cards.
It isn't about not doing missions at all. I never said that. What I *did* say was that if I have to go back to leveling new characters through missions, I would be done with the game. And I stand by that. If the changes make 6-15 leveling an exercise in traipsing all over the place killing the same group of 3 easily killed NPCs 2000 times, then I will just go back to SWTOR, where they have mastered that awful style of play from 1 to whatever their top level is now. At least there is a decent story to their drudgery.
Okay, so if I don't enjoy one facet of the game...level up through repetitive, non-challenging missions...I shouldn't play at all???
Not what I'm saying at all. If you'll notice, I'm not saying you should level all the way to 40 through missions. In fact, I'm not saying you should do anything. I'm pointing out that the only thing you'll have to do is level from 6 to 10 through missions, something that takes less than 30 minutes.
May I point out that you were the one originally talking about quitting the game just because you'll have to do less than 30 minutes of mission content once per character? Not sure why you're trying to throw the idea of you quitting in my lap...
I enjoy alerts, especially the more challenging alerts. Mostly I enjoy the character creator, and my characters. Long story short, but this is the only game I have ever played which allows me to bring characters to life that I have had for over 25 years.
In your opinion. In my opinion, they are very different. Going to an NPC to have him/her/it tell you to go and kill 150 weak enemies that pose no threat to you at all is not only boring, but it is unnecessarily time consuming. It is not something I enjoy. You are welcome to have it at it though...
Like I said before, I'm not much interested in missions. However, I'm perfectly fine with "suffering" through a few minutes of missions, once per character. That's because I actually find alerts fun, so I'm willing to do a tiny bit of moderately less interesting content so I can start doing alerts. I guess I'm just more excited about doing alerts than you are? Just a theory.
Maybe you are mischaracterizing what I am saying??
I don't, and never claimed to, "love" alerts. To me it is a lazy person's way to level through the first several levels, while having a bit of challenge (risk of failure). Can I think of much better gameplay mechanics that I would actually "love"? You bet!! But collecting purple gang clothing in westside over, and over, and over is NOT one of them.
I'm not mischaracterizing you at all... I'm actually asking questions, and trying to communicate to you that alerts aren't going to be ruined and that you won't be forced to run missions (other than 6-10, less than 30 minutes, once).
I think whether you use the word "love" or "like" is entirely irrelevant. I'm not asking you to propose to the alert que and then try to find some way to procreate with it.
You'll also note I generally don't have a lot of negative things to say about alerts... in fact, when people start to talk about how they're ruining the game, I always chime in about how the opposite is true. You, on the other hand, definitely just said something negative about them... so, as it turns out, I do actually like alerts more than you do. That makes your constant attempts to make me seem anti-alert and pro-mission just that much more interesting, doesn't it?
Umm...did you actually READ what I posted originally?? I said that *others* blame low level characters for losing in alerts. What I said that I believe is that STUPID PLAYERS lose alerts, not low level characters.
It sounds to me like you have some kind of desire to see low level characters forced out of timed alerts? Why is that?? Because you feel that they hurt your chances of success?? Is that why you are so up on these changes?
Timed alerts were never a good fit for leveling characters. First, it doesn't make sense to make the most demanding alerts be aimed at people who are leveling up... it makes sense that the challenging alerts be aimed at higher level players. Secondly, the timed alerts aren't very welcoming to a variety of builds, and it gets boring always having to build a dps-oriented character, since quite frankly healer and tank characters aren't much use in a dps race vs mostly harmless opponents, especially when you have infinite respawns. And yes, lower level players are being forced out of timed alerts by these changes, but importantly lower level players are not being forced out of XP alerts.
Do I feel that lower level players hurt my chances of success? Seeing as the vast majority of alerts are successful, I would say no. So, clearly, that can't be why I'm so up on these changes.
I am just curious, because you are engaging in some very disingenuous debate tactics (straw man arguments, red herrings, misrepresenting what I am saying, false dichotomies) for someone that claims to feel the same way about missions vs. alerts. If that is the case, they why are you so vehemently for these changes??
Because I like to level things other than dps character. Because Grabs will be the XP alerts, that means I can start leveling up healers and tanks, and have a lot of fun doing it. I'm fairly meh on the level gating... the only thing that excites me about that is that they might actually have an excuse to balance some of the alerts for higher level players, meaning more challenging and exciting fights. That would be great, since I personally enjoy content that isn't so mind numbingly easy... you might disagree.
Personally, these changes will mean that I cannot decide to just throw a character together and have fun getting that character up to the point where he/she/it has reach the level in which they start to be fun to play. Again, if the alternatives are schlepping all over the map killing hundreds of non-challenging NPCs for very low XP rewards, or doing Grab alerts that take 10-20 minutes each for low XP rewards, it is not going to hold my interest for very long. And while you might not object to doing it, there are many of us that will. But hey, as long as you get what you want out of the game, why worry about the rest of the paying subscribers...even if their choice of play style has no direct effect on you, right??
I'm going to give you some important information. It's not my job to care what's good for other players. My only job here is to care what's fun for me. You surprised? You shouldn't be... do you realize that you're following the exact same mind set? After all, you keep talking about how "Grab alerts aren't fun for hockeyplayerx13, so don't you dare make them xp alerts". I find Grab alerts more fun, so yes I'm excited that that's what I'm going to be leveling up my characters with. I find most Smash alerts boring because they are the absoloute manifestation of "Stand'N'Spam" mechancis... you literally just stand there and spam your powers, and I don't see how anyone could see that as their favorite part of the game.
Yes, there are many people that will object to these changes... but there are just as many that will embrace them. You keep throwing around the idea of you quitting, and then try to pretend that I'm supposed to either be worried or feel guilty that you might quit... but in the end, you're the one making yourself quit, not me.
And ultimately, it's fine if you want to quit playing. If the game isn't fun for you, go do something else. But please, don't try to pretend like your quitting is some big important thing that everyone should feel super bad about... you're just another player. We all are.
Allowing a brand new level 8 into warlord never made sense to me, if they knock around 40s, how is a level 8 supposed to offer any real contribution?
Cannon fodder. While Warlord's killing the 8, he's not killing you.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Cannon fodder. While Warlord's killing the 8, he's not killing you.
The level 8's aren't even noticed by the bosses.
I tested this when On Alert first came out. I made low level toons and wandered around the
alerts without ever picking up aggro. If I didn't get caught in AoE I never died.
I'm actually a bit surprised that there would be negative feedback towards these changes, since most of us have asked for them since alert went live.
Allowing a brand new level 8 into warlord never made sense to me, if they knock around 40s, how is a level 8 supposed to offer any real contribution?
Most of us are still in support of these changes, it's just the few people who are objecting to them are just being quite loud and annoying about it. Also consider that many of the people who are currently objecting are relatively newcomers to the forums, and the people who had wanted these changes don't seem to be around much these days. There's a lot of turnover in this game, sadly.
It's long overdue, and a good change. I disagree with the people being negative about it, strongly.
So the level 8 is essentially an active defense with a duration of one second (or less) ? :biggrin:
Pretty much, yeah.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
glass jaw, I mean rockjaw.
No dinos. no epidemic, no 2GM(that I could see)
quite a few deaths.
I think everyone got to tank brefily, Ghoulia was the best at it.
Cannon fodder. While Warlord's killing the 8, he's not killing you.
Most low levels in my warlord never made it to the boss fight. Either they would die repeatedly and quit, die repeatedly, or take so long getting through the already cleared path that someone would start and lock them out.
I think ALL alerts should be gated, obviously different level gates for different alerts, people with no passives or gear have no place in alerts.
Sure! While we're at it...why not exclude anyone lower than level 25 from doing anything but the tutorial??? That would show these stupid lowbies a thing or two!
I think ALL alerts should be gated, obviously different level gates for different alerts, people with no passives or gear have no place in alerts.
But that is just sensible talk and has no place in the CO forums.
GOOD NEWS! All alerts are going to be level gated
Now talk about how you don't think the level gates are high enough so I can make fun of you for thinking you need higher level people to win at easy alerts, then you can accuse me of being a min-maxer and that being the only reason why I think alerts are easy, then I can point out that I'm not a min-maxer and that I in fact make some rather squishy characters that require very active play rather than face tanking, then you circle around back to the beginning of the argument and we can do the whole thing over and over again until eventually we all lose interest and all walk away thinking we made really good points and that everyone else is either secretly convinced we're right and are just too proud to admit it, or just too dumb or stubborn to get "what we are saying".
Then I'll get back to destroying alerts, and you get back to whatever the heck it is that happens to other people in alerts that convinces them of whatever it is they think about them u_u
I think she was talking about those people who don't get the starter gear, and don't pick a passive right away.
the same people who die to the first mob they attack.
I really think gear in this game is far too important for a superhero game and ideally they should have come up with a way to do a gearless system from day 1. :rolleyes:
I have to disagree, only because the gear in this game is loot dropped stats.
Would it have made you feel better for them to just make stat boxes? You attack enemies for a chance to obtain a stat box that you then hope for the right stat filler for said box with an icon that just reads +57 and is probably color coded for each different stat?
You wouldn't call it gear then.
Instead of Legion Gear, we'd unlock lock boxes for an additional stat box to fill with specific stat boosts.
All gear is in CO is stat boosts with an icon. This isn't like other games, where gear effects your look.
And most people want loot to chase after. Not, I just level up to max level and not need to search for anything. Which I'm sure some people might want, but without something to try to obtain in a drop, I think you'd find many leave the game.
Sure! While we're at it...why not exclude anyone lower than level 25 from doing anything but the tutorial??? That would show these stupid lowbies a thing or two!
:rolleyes:
I was thinking at least level 8 so everyone has passives and basic gear ( does make a big difference), but hey if leveling up 2 times in Westside is to much for ya.
I dont think anyone wants a level 25 gate for basic alerts XD
I think the solution to the gear 'issue' is just providing more ways to access gear that levels alongside you. I think most of my LTS stipend these days gets turned into Q and then spent on the heirloom Q sets for new characters just so I don't have to mess with gear until they hit 40 (if they ever hit 40).
But yeah beyond that I doubt they'll change up the gear system much. It works well enough right now, for people who like gear.
________________________________ @kelpplankton
Oldschool CoH player, Lifetime CO and STO subscriber, animator and artist.
What are you guys talking about? Are you not aware that 90% of Superman's strength comes from his cape? If he unequips that thing he can barely even lift a car anymore. And don't even ask what happens when he undoes his belt!
What are you guys talking about? Are you not aware that 90% of Superman's strength comes from his cape? If he unequips that thing he can barely even lift a car anymore. And don't even ask what happens when he undoes his belt!
Undoing his belt? I don't think that kind of fanfiction is appropriate for a T rated game's forum...
________________________________ @kelpplankton
Oldschool CoH player, Lifetime CO and STO subscriber, animator and artist.
The thing that drew me to CO from day 1 was that it was NOT a WoW clone, but it has aspects of it.
I don't want to look like everyone else.
I don't want to be a "class".
I don't want to have to do the exact same s*** that everyone else does.
I don't want to have to play the game as if it were on rails.
I don't want to have to conform to specific builds.
But most importantly, I don't want to have the EXACT SAME EXPERIENCE with every character I make.
Get it???
Yes, we get it. Having to do 1/10 of your leveling outside of alerts is a hardship so severe, Bear Grylls thinks you're nuts to put up with it. Centuries from now, when archaeologists dig up the server containing this forum, they will find this litany, and you'll be revered as a great tragic hero of our age for having spent 30 minutes in Westside.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
By the way, leveling will probably be at about the same rate, since there will be far, far fewer failed XP alerts. No timer, DPS won't be so crucial, etc.
What will annoy many, I believe, is that Nem alerts will be for resources, rather than XP. I like this, since it will tend to discourage lowbies without Nems from queuing.
It IS too much, because ANY of that crap is TOO MUCH.
It was a horrible WoW clone design from day 1.
Let go of WoW, and embrace something different.
Right so instead of doing the same Westside missions once a toon you want to do the same alerts over and over again ( and fail over and over again cause your level 6 ).
Logical.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I don't want to have to do the exact same s*** that everyone else does.
Smash alerts aren't the "exact same s*** that everyone else does"? ...weird... if you wanted to do something that no one else is doing, you would be doing missions.
I don't want to have to conform to specific builds.
And yet, you want to run Timed alerts, which really only reward the use of dps builds. Grab alerts, and missions, allow you to use any kind of build you want; they never require you to conform to a specific build.
The thing that drew me to CO from day 1 was that it was NOT a WoW clone, but it has aspects of it.
I don't want to look like everyone else.
I don't want to be a "class".
I don't want to have to do the exact same s*** that everyone else does.
I don't want to have to play the game as if it were on rails.
I don't want to have to conform to specific builds.
But most importantly, I don't want to have the EXACT SAME EXPERIENCE with every character I make.
Get it???
I think others summed it up nicely for you.
But still, even after they did all that, I still don't get what you mean? O.O
Sooo...what exactly do you mean? You're willing to run the same alerts over and over (which I have no problem with mind you), but not missions, and that's considered having completely different experiences?
In fact, why even bother?? Just make it so that if you skip the tutorial, you start at level 10.
Actually that's the first well thought out thing you've mentioned in all your posts. I can agree to this completely, because if you are starting a new account you should have been shown how to work basic functions in the game, and maybe even have a mini team event to help understand the "role" your character has. Fleshing out the tutorial and starting areas are a valid option to creating better players who understand the game once they leave the tutorial. For other characters that are created after it's assumed that you know how to play and then can jump in at a decent level 10 rather than a level 6.
As far as all the stuff about ATs and how they work, my understanding is that they are there to give you a taste of the game with pre-built power set, and to test the waters for the game's mechanics. Now there's absolutely nothing wrong with continuing to play an AT or to have several ATs... BUT I feel that since they are pre-buillt into particular roles then you should have a set up similar to the "holy" trinity. It works better in the same regards to classes in other games. NOW, for freeforms, this point is moot, and your role is more fluid, as you can balance things like survivability and damage since you are offered the full realm of powers to pick and choose from. Does this mean that people who prefer to play full healers should be punished or people who prefer to smash their way through missions or alerts blindly should be punished? No. It simply means that they have more options in what they choose to play.
No one ever has been forced to play only missions or Alerts once the alert feature first appeared. I personally leveled my main before the alerts appeared and loved going through the entire story once. My other characters have been a mix from the alert XP grind with double XP bonuses, and adding in the odd mission or two. I think this level gating is excellent to provide the option to still continue to alert your way to 40, but also to allow people who are newer to the game the chance to try out the other content they might not have experienced yet. Just because a player has been playing for years, doesn't mean that every player has.
Should there be more content and better leveled content (as far as ranking Elite to actual elite status ie: more mobs and heaver hitting enemies)? Of course, but that all means nothing if you don't even understand how to play the game in the first place.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
the problem isnt running alerts over and over. it's about the size of the xp buff. so that you won't have to do as many of the missions.
way it works is like this- do missions until your eyes bleed. do some alerts for a break, back to missions. 20% was a decent and much needed increase from 15% considering how they are changing the alerts.
But hockey doesn't want to do missions at all. He doesn't even want to do 1 mission.
He wants to do Smash alerts over and over on all his characters, so that he can have different experiences with each of them.
he can, if the team is different every time. :biggrin:
yeah but he's upset that they're level gating the alerts, which means there will be less lower levels causing failures, meaning that the number of failures caused by bad players will increase!
yeah but he's upset that they're level gating the alerts, which means there will be less lower levels causing failures, meaning that the number of failures caused by bad players will increase!
or something like that.
1 pt for that quote.
and I've been in one those recruitment drives with your cat girl.. She didn't get many targets due to being busy aggroing. Everyone else got plenty.
Another character seriously in need of tranqs(along with several of mine)
as for being level 10 straight out of tutorial,
not unless they have a BIG section on
blocking,
breaking line of sight
running back from the CLOSE gaveyard,
not kiting all over the place,
not getting aggro unless you are prepared to deal with having it,
not running off in the opposite direction to the rest of your group,
the films from PH on maintain and charge powers, <insert sarcasm here>
or we could make it quicker and just make people 40 straight from tutorial, so you don't have to waste time doing any repetitive stuff like missions or alerts. Just go round do Unity missions.. oh no can't do that, that requires repeating 3 to 6 times.
Hmm how about making missions and alerts only usable once per account, that way you never repeat anything
yes it's early morning and I haven't eaten yet.
I'd call that as bad player generally. since if any of those mobs go for anyone but you, people get killed. unless theres no squishies, and recruiting drive attracts all the uber squishies :rolleyes:
They can complain after they pick up their reward, after the alert is successful s( u w u )z
Though honestly, it's generally not a problem. I aggro everything with huge aoe crits, not proximity s( u w u )z
But hockey doesn't want to do missions at all. He doesn't even want to do 1 mission.
No. He doesn't want to do missions to get out of the starter period (level 6-15) because HE HAS ALREADY DONE THEM A THOUSAND FRIGGIN' TIMES!!!!!
I really don't see how this should be hard for you people to understand.
The beginner content in this game is just that...for beginners.
I have been playing this game for 3+ years. I have done Westside. I have killed all the paintball players in Canada I ever care to, and last thing I ever want to do is see Snake Gulch again.
I did it. It sucked then. It sucks even more after having done it 14 times.
Alerts bring a quick way to get characters past that garbage and into the stage where they can do other, more interesting things.
It isn't that I'd don't want to do ANY missions. I just don't want to do the really crappy ones that require spending hours to gain 1-2 levels at best.
actually I always judge the quality of a player by how they act in general not if they make something that's gimped.
for instance, if someone pulls all the mobs in recruiting drive on purpose every time, he's likely a bad player.
This is 100% correct.
Level matters, but not nearly as much as knowing WTH you are doing.
When morons run around "kiting" the boss, or fighting minions the entire time, or KB'ing the boss all the way across the freakin' screen every 4 seconds...I'd much rather have a level 6-10 that actually knows how to fight a boss.
But, don't worry, PWE will definitely intro this to the live server, and then those of us that have seen all the content and only play the game to build new characters will find something more interesting to do. Or we will just suck and deal. Regardless, it won't change your experience in alerts, because you cannot fix STUPID.
No. He doesn't want to do missions to get out of the starter period (level 6-15) because HE HAS ALREADY DONE THEM A THOUSAND FRIGGIN' TIMES!!!!!
I really don't see how this should be hard for you people to understand.
The beginner content in this game is just that...for beginners.
I have been playing this game for 3+ years. I have done Westside. I have killed all the paintball players in Canada I ever care to, and last thing I ever want to do is see Snake Gulch again.
I did it. It sucked then. It sucks even more after having done it 14 times.
Alerts bring a quick way to get characters past that garbage and into the stage where they can do other, more interesting things.
It isn't that I'd don't want to do ANY missions. I just don't want to do the really crappy ones that require spending hours to gain 1-2 levels at best.
Screw that noise.
You don't want to do the really crappy ones that require spending hours to gain 1-2 levels.... then why are you complaining about the missions that bring you from level 6-10 in under 30 minutes?
^ this is why it's difficult for people to understand what you're trying to say, because you constantly contradict yourself.
The paintball missions and snake gulch happen after level 10, btw, so if you were doing those, it wouldn't be part of the process to get to a high enough level to run XP alerts.
Level matters, but not nearly as much as knowing WTH you are doing.
When morons run around "kiting" the boss, or fighting minions the entire time, or KB'ing the boss all the way across the freakin' screen every 4 seconds...I'd much rather have a level 6-10 that actually knows how to fight a boss.
But, don't worry, PWE will definitely intro this to the live server, and then those of us that have seen all the content and only play the game to build new characters will find something more interesting to do. Or we will just suck and deal. Regardless, it won't change your experience in alerts, because you cannot fix STUPID.
I bolded and underlined that part because I'd like to know what that part has to do with all the other stuff about bad players? Seems really random, and makes it seem like you're trying to make the claim that the changes are going to cause there to be more bad players... I don't want to assume that though (because it sounds really dumb), so that's why I'm asking.
You realize that someone being between the levels of 6 and 10 is no guarantee that they're not a bad player, correct?
Also, why would these changes be the ones to make you suddenly realize that you're running the same content over and over again? Most of us realized that long long ago, and made our peace with it.
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On the other hand, something you said earlier puzzles me. If you "have to" play the missions, you're "done with this game"? Isn't that kind of like saying that if you "have to" circle around the board, you're never going to play Monopoly again, or if you "have to" ante up you're "done with" poker? The missions essentially are the game - that's where the "RPG" part of "MMORPG" is supposed to kick in.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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The alert won't "fail" however if you cannot defeat the boss it will heal back to full when it leaves combat, which mean s every time it defeats you.
So even without a timer you'll never win and be forced to abandon the alert.
I'm glad you see the difference, because lately there have been a lot of "rabidly anti mission" people who have been going around pretending people are victimizing them. I'm glad that you're not acting like anyone is victimizing or making you suffer. Keep in mind though that when you directly respond to someone, and use the "you" pronoun, that that person is likely to think that you are in fact referring to them. I hope that clears up any confusion you have about how the word "you" works
I think you need to ask yourself why you're even bothering to play the game at all. Let's face it, spamming your powers at an npc in a smash alert isn't significantly different from spamming your powers at an npc during a mission. I have to question how you can claim to love one so much, and despise the other one just as much... when ultimately, you're doing the same thing in both. Maybe you're just overreacting to the changes?
Sometimes people will use their own experiences to try to help others cope with problems they are having. I was also pointing out how very minor the amount of "mission" content that you'll be forced to do is, to emphasize how little worth you put on alerts... if you're not willing to do even the tiniest amount of missions to then spend the rest of your time doing alerts, how much fun can you really be having in alerts?
Hell, even I would eat a small piece of fish if it meant I got to have some nice big juicy burgers
side note: it's also somewhat hypocritical that you state that you believe low levels cause alerts to fail, yet refuse to do any amount of leveling through missions before you start queing for alerts. In a way, these changes will actually be keeping you honest to your own beliefs :P
Well... if you solo'd the entire alert all the way up to the boss, knowing full well that you wouldn't be able to beat the boss, then you really have no one to blame :P Here's a hint: If all 4 of the others are afk at the start of the alert, just leave and reque.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Okay, so if I don't enjoy one facet of the game...level up through repetitive, non-challenging missions...I shouldn't play at all???
I enjoy alerts, especially the more challenging alerts. Mostly I enjoy the character creator, and my characters. Long story short, but this is the only game I have ever played which allows me to bring characters to life that I have had for over 25 years.
In your opinion. In my opinion, they are very different. Going to an NPC to have him/her/it tell you to go and kill 150 weak enemies that pose no threat to you at all is not only boring, but it is unnecessarily time consuming. It is not something I enjoy. You are welcome to have it at it though...
Maybe you are mischaracterizing what I am saying??
I don't, and never claimed to, "love" alerts. To me it is a lazy person's way to level through the first several levels, while having a bit of challenge (risk of failure). Can I think of much better gameplay mechanics that I would actually "love"? You bet!! But collecting purple gang clothing in westside over, and over, and over is NOT one of them.
Umm...did you actually READ what I posted originally?? I said that *others* blame low level characters for losing in alerts. What I said that I believe is that STUPID PLAYERS lose alerts, not low level characters.
It sounds to me like you have some kind of desire to see low level characters forced out of timed alerts? Why is that?? Because you feel that they hurt your chances of success?? Is that why you are so up on these changes?
I am just curious, because you are engaging in some very disingenuous debate tactics (straw man arguments, red herrings, misrepresenting what I am saying, false dichotomies) for someone that claims to feel the same way about missions vs. alerts. If that is the case, they why are you so vehemently for these changes??
Personally, these changes will mean that I cannot decide to just throw a character together and have fun getting that character up to the point where he/she/it has reach the level in which they start to be fun to play. Again, if the alternatives are schlepping all over the map killing hundreds of non-challenging NPCs for very low XP rewards, or doing Grab alerts that take 10-20 minutes each for low XP rewards, it is not going to hold my interest for very long. And while you might not object to doing it, there are many of us that will. But hey, as long as you get what you want out of the game, why worry about the rest of the paying subscribers...even if their choice of play style has no direct effect on you, right??
It would be more like:
You can play Monopoly, but you have to move 1 space at a time for the first 250 trips around the board...then you can roll the dice.
or
You can play Poker, but you are only allowed 2 cards for the first 250 hands...then you can draw cards.
It isn't about not doing missions at all. I never said that. What I *did* say was that if I have to go back to leveling new characters through missions, I would be done with the game. And I stand by that. If the changes make 6-15 leveling an exercise in traipsing all over the place killing the same group of 3 easily killed NPCs 2000 times, then I will just go back to SWTOR, where they have mastered that awful style of play from 1 to whatever their top level is now. At least there is a decent story to their drudgery.
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Not what I'm saying at all. If you'll notice, I'm not saying you should level all the way to 40 through missions. In fact, I'm not saying you should do anything. I'm pointing out that the only thing you'll have to do is level from 6 to 10 through missions, something that takes less than 30 minutes.
May I point out that you were the one originally talking about quitting the game just because you'll have to do less than 30 minutes of mission content once per character? Not sure why you're trying to throw the idea of you quitting in my lap...
Like I said before, I'm not much interested in missions. However, I'm perfectly fine with "suffering" through a few minutes of missions, once per character. That's because I actually find alerts fun, so I'm willing to do a tiny bit of moderately less interesting content so I can start doing alerts. I guess I'm just more excited about doing alerts than you are? Just a theory.
I'm not mischaracterizing you at all... I'm actually asking questions, and trying to communicate to you that alerts aren't going to be ruined and that you won't be forced to run missions (other than 6-10, less than 30 minutes, once).
I think whether you use the word "love" or "like" is entirely irrelevant. I'm not asking you to propose to the alert que and then try to find some way to procreate with it.
You'll also note I generally don't have a lot of negative things to say about alerts... in fact, when people start to talk about how they're ruining the game, I always chime in about how the opposite is true. You, on the other hand, definitely just said something negative about them... so, as it turns out, I do actually like alerts more than you do. That makes your constant attempts to make me seem anti-alert and pro-mission just that much more interesting, doesn't it?
Fair enough. We agree here.
Timed alerts were never a good fit for leveling characters. First, it doesn't make sense to make the most demanding alerts be aimed at people who are leveling up... it makes sense that the challenging alerts be aimed at higher level players. Secondly, the timed alerts aren't very welcoming to a variety of builds, and it gets boring always having to build a dps-oriented character, since quite frankly healer and tank characters aren't much use in a dps race vs mostly harmless opponents, especially when you have infinite respawns. And yes, lower level players are being forced out of timed alerts by these changes, but importantly lower level players are not being forced out of XP alerts.
Do I feel that lower level players hurt my chances of success? Seeing as the vast majority of alerts are successful, I would say no. So, clearly, that can't be why I'm so up on these changes.
Because I like to level things other than dps character. Because Grabs will be the XP alerts, that means I can start leveling up healers and tanks, and have a lot of fun doing it. I'm fairly meh on the level gating... the only thing that excites me about that is that they might actually have an excuse to balance some of the alerts for higher level players, meaning more challenging and exciting fights. That would be great, since I personally enjoy content that isn't so mind numbingly easy... you might disagree.
I'm going to give you some important information. It's not my job to care what's good for other players. My only job here is to care what's fun for me. You surprised? You shouldn't be... do you realize that you're following the exact same mind set? After all, you keep talking about how "Grab alerts aren't fun for hockeyplayerx13, so don't you dare make them xp alerts". I find Grab alerts more fun, so yes I'm excited that that's what I'm going to be leveling up my characters with. I find most Smash alerts boring because they are the absoloute manifestation of "Stand'N'Spam" mechancis... you literally just stand there and spam your powers, and I don't see how anyone could see that as their favorite part of the game.
Yes, there are many people that will object to these changes... but there are just as many that will embrace them. You keep throwing around the idea of you quitting, and then try to pretend that I'm supposed to either be worried or feel guilty that you might quit... but in the end, you're the one making yourself quit, not me.
And ultimately, it's fine if you want to quit playing. If the game isn't fun for you, go do something else. But please, don't try to pretend like your quitting is some big important thing that everyone should feel super bad about... you're just another player. We all are.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Allowing a brand new level 8 into warlord never made sense to me, if they knock around 40s, how is a level 8 supposed to offer any real contribution?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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The level 8's aren't even noticed by the bosses.
I tested this when On Alert first came out. I made low level toons and wandered around the
alerts without ever picking up aggro. If I didn't get caught in AoE I never died.
Most of us are still in support of these changes, it's just the few people who are objecting to them are just being quite loud and annoying about it. Also consider that many of the people who are currently objecting are relatively newcomers to the forums, and the people who had wanted these changes don't seem to be around much these days. There's a lot of turnover in this game, sadly.
It's long overdue, and a good change. I disagree with the people being negative about it, strongly.
*shrug*
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
So the level 8 is essentially an active defense with a duration of one second (or less) ? :biggrin:
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Who'd you fight against?
No dinos. no epidemic, no 2GM(that I could see)
quite a few deaths.
I think everyone got to tank brefily, Ghoulia was the best at it.
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Most low levels in my warlord never made it to the boss fight. Either they would die repeatedly and quit, die repeatedly, or take so long getting through the already cleared path that someone would start and lock them out.
But that is just sensible talk and has no place in the CO forums.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
As much as that's meant to be funny... it's so sad how true it is.
Sure! While we're at it...why not exclude anyone lower than level 25 from doing anything but the tutorial??? That would show these stupid lowbies a thing or two!
:rolleyes:
GOOD NEWS!
Now talk about how you don't think the level gates are high enough so I can make fun of you for thinking you need higher level people to win at easy alerts, then you can accuse me of being a min-maxer and that being the only reason why I think alerts are easy, then I can point out that I'm not a min-maxer and that I in fact make some rather squishy characters that require very active play rather than face tanking, then you circle around back to the beginning of the argument and we can do the whole thing over and over again until eventually we all lose interest and all walk away thinking we made really good points and that everyone else is either secretly convinced we're right and are just too proud to admit it, or just too dumb or stubborn to get "what we are saying".
Then I'll get back to destroying alerts, and you get back to whatever the heck it is that happens to other people in alerts that convinces them of whatever it is they think about them u_u
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
But I can have gear and a passive at level 6! O.O
I have to disagree, only because the gear in this game is loot dropped stats.
Would it have made you feel better for them to just make stat boxes? You attack enemies for a chance to obtain a stat box that you then hope for the right stat filler for said box with an icon that just reads +57 and is probably color coded for each different stat?
You wouldn't call it gear then.
Instead of Legion Gear, we'd unlock lock boxes for an additional stat box to fill with specific stat boosts.
All gear is in CO is stat boosts with an icon. This isn't like other games, where gear effects your look.
And most people want loot to chase after. Not, I just level up to max level and not need to search for anything. Which I'm sure some people might want, but without something to try to obtain in a drop, I think you'd find many leave the game.
I was thinking at least level 8 so everyone has passives and basic gear ( does make a big difference), but hey if leveling up 2 times in Westside is to much for ya.
I dont think anyone wants a level 25 gate for basic alerts XD
Your gold though and all silver and AT players get their passives at level 8 and that should be the gate for basic alerts.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
But yeah beyond that I doubt they'll change up the gear system much. It works well enough right now, for people who like gear.
@kelpplankton
Oldschool CoH player, Lifetime CO and STO subscriber, animator and artist.
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Undoing his belt? I don't think that kind of fanfiction is appropriate for a T rated game's forum...
@kelpplankton
Oldschool CoH player, Lifetime CO and STO subscriber, animator and artist.
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Everybody poops.
The Caliga Story.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
It IS too much, because ANY of that crap is TOO MUCH.
It was a horrible WoW clone design from day 1.
Let go of WoW, and embrace something different.
I don't want to look like everyone else.
I don't want to be a "class".
I don't want to have to do the exact same s*** that everyone else does.
I don't want to have to play the game as if it were on rails.
I don't want to have to conform to specific builds.
But most importantly, I don't want to have the EXACT SAME EXPERIENCE with every character I make.
Get it???
Yes, we get it. Having to do 1/10 of your leveling outside of alerts is a hardship so severe, Bear Grylls thinks you're nuts to put up with it. Centuries from now, when archaeologists dig up the server containing this forum, they will find this litany, and you'll be revered as a great tragic hero of our age for having spent 30 minutes in Westside.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
What will annoy many, I believe, is that Nem alerts will be for resources, rather than XP. I like this, since it will tend to discourage lowbies without Nems from queuing.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Right so instead of doing the same Westside missions once a toon you want to do the same alerts over and over again ( and fail over and over again cause your level 6 ).
Logical.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
The alert changes are not turning the game into a WoW clone.
The alert changes are not removing the costume editor.
The alert changes are not removing free form from the game.
Smash alerts aren't the "exact same s*** that everyone else does"? ...weird... if you wanted to do something that no one else is doing, you would be doing missions.
And yet, you want to run Smash alerts... linear? Try stationary. If missions are "on rails", then smash alerts are "in an elevator".
And yet, you want to run Timed alerts, which really only reward the use of dps builds. Grab alerts, and missions, allow you to use any kind of build you want; they never require you to conform to a specific build.
And yet, you want to run the same Smash alerts over and over and over... on every character you make.. every day...every five minutes.
No, I don't get it. You say you want one thing, then demand the opposite.
What I am getting is that you seem to want to do something other than play CO.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I think others summed it up nicely for you.
But still, even after they did all that, I still don't get what you mean? O.O
Sooo...what exactly do you mean? You're willing to run the same alerts over and over (which I have no problem with mind you), but not missions, and that's considered having completely different experiences?
It's not Jackie Chan...
Actually that's the first well thought out thing you've mentioned in all your posts. I can agree to this completely, because if you are starting a new account you should have been shown how to work basic functions in the game, and maybe even have a mini team event to help understand the "role" your character has. Fleshing out the tutorial and starting areas are a valid option to creating better players who understand the game once they leave the tutorial. For other characters that are created after it's assumed that you know how to play and then can jump in at a decent level 10 rather than a level 6.
As far as all the stuff about ATs and how they work, my understanding is that they are there to give you a taste of the game with pre-built power set, and to test the waters for the game's mechanics. Now there's absolutely nothing wrong with continuing to play an AT or to have several ATs... BUT I feel that since they are pre-buillt into particular roles then you should have a set up similar to the "holy" trinity. It works better in the same regards to classes in other games. NOW, for freeforms, this point is moot, and your role is more fluid, as you can balance things like survivability and damage since you are offered the full realm of powers to pick and choose from. Does this mean that people who prefer to play full healers should be punished or people who prefer to smash their way through missions or alerts blindly should be punished? No. It simply means that they have more options in what they choose to play.
No one ever has been forced to play only missions or Alerts once the alert feature first appeared. I personally leveled my main before the alerts appeared and loved going through the entire story once. My other characters have been a mix from the alert XP grind with double XP bonuses, and adding in the odd mission or two. I think this level gating is excellent to provide the option to still continue to alert your way to 40, but also to allow people who are newer to the game the chance to try out the other content they might not have experienced yet. Just because a player has been playing for years, doesn't mean that every player has.
Should there be more content and better leveled content (as far as ranking Elite to actual elite status ie: more mobs and heaver hitting enemies)? Of course, but that all means nothing if you don't even understand how to play the game in the first place.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
Haha. Nah that's "Everybody Poops in his Armor."
But hockey doesn't want to do missions at all. He doesn't even want to do 1 mission.
He wants to do Smash alerts over and over on all his characters, so that he can have different experiences with each of them.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
yeah but he's upset that they're level gating the alerts, which means there will be less lower levels causing failures, meaning that the number of failures caused by bad players will increase!
or something like that.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Or it's me on my cat girl ninja showing off how I can slaughter all those mobs owo
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
1 pt for that quote.
and I've been in one those recruitment drives with your cat girl.. She didn't get many targets due to being busy aggroing. Everyone else got plenty.
Another character seriously in need of tranqs(along with several of mine)
as for being level 10 straight out of tutorial,
not unless they have a BIG section on
blocking,
breaking line of sight
running back from the CLOSE gaveyard,
not kiting all over the place,
not getting aggro unless you are prepared to deal with having it,
not running off in the opposite direction to the rest of your group,
the films from PH on maintain and charge powers,
<insert sarcasm here>
or we could make it quicker and just make people 40 straight from tutorial, so you don't have to waste time doing any repetitive stuff like missions or alerts. Just go round do Unity missions.. oh no can't do that, that requires repeating 3 to 6 times.
Hmm how about making missions and alerts only usable once per account, that way you never repeat anything
yes it's early morning and I haven't eaten yet.
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what is target?
don't tranq da kitty u3u
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
They can complain after they pick up their reward, after the alert is successful s( u w u )z
Though honestly, it's generally not a problem. I aggro everything with huge aoe crits, not proximity s( u w u )z
z( U w U )z
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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No. He doesn't want to do missions to get out of the starter period (level 6-15) because HE HAS ALREADY DONE THEM A THOUSAND FRIGGIN' TIMES!!!!!
I really don't see how this should be hard for you people to understand.
The beginner content in this game is just that...for beginners.
I have been playing this game for 3+ years. I have done Westside. I have killed all the paintball players in Canada I ever care to, and last thing I ever want to do is see Snake Gulch again.
I did it. It sucked then. It sucks even more after having done it 14 times.
Alerts bring a quick way to get characters past that garbage and into the stage where they can do other, more interesting things.
It isn't that I'd don't want to do ANY missions. I just don't want to do the really crappy ones that require spending hours to gain 1-2 levels at best.
Screw that noise.
This is 100% correct.
Level matters, but not nearly as much as knowing WTH you are doing.
When morons run around "kiting" the boss, or fighting minions the entire time, or KB'ing the boss all the way across the freakin' screen every 4 seconds...I'd much rather have a level 6-10 that actually knows how to fight a boss.
But, don't worry, PWE will definitely intro this to the live server, and then those of us that have seen all the content and only play the game to build new characters will find something more interesting to do. Or we will just suck and deal. Regardless, it won't change your experience in alerts, because you cannot fix STUPID.
[Grumble grumble.]
Deliciously nutritious!
Then you're thinking of the wrong person... or you just didn't see my booomerangs flying around
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
You don't want to do the really crappy ones that require spending hours to gain 1-2 levels.... then why are you complaining about the missions that bring you from level 6-10 in under 30 minutes?
^ this is why it's difficult for people to understand what you're trying to say, because you constantly contradict yourself.
The paintball missions and snake gulch happen after level 10, btw, so if you were doing those, it wouldn't be part of the process to get to a high enough level to run XP alerts.
I bolded and underlined that part because I'd like to know what that part has to do with all the other stuff about bad players? Seems really random, and makes it seem like you're trying to make the claim that the changes are going to cause there to be more bad players... I don't want to assume that though (because it sounds really dumb), so that's why I'm asking.
You realize that someone being between the levels of 6 and 10 is no guarantee that they're not a bad player, correct?
Also, why would these changes be the ones to make you suddenly realize that you're running the same content over and over again? Most of us realized that long long ago, and made our peace with it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.