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It's not that the OP is wrong for their complaint. But it's all about picking your battles and knowing how to fight them, if it's worth fighting.
No they're definitely wrong.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I'm not seeing it. I don't agree with their assessment, but to say that the OP's statement is blatantly inaccurate is just silly. I've seen things I consider unfair- though usually, for me, unfair is when one of the SG's members hops on an alt and wins 2 or more categories, or something that most judged contests IRL would consider unethical and a conflict of interest.
I'm not seeing it. I don't agree with their assessment, but to say that the OP's statement is blatantly inaccurate is just silly. I've seen things I consider unfair- though usually, for me, unfair is when one of the SG's members hops on an alt and wins 2 or more categories, or something that most judged contests IRL would consider unethical and a conflict of interest.
CC judges can't judge wrong. It's factually impossible, because the judge's opinion is the only factor that matters, no matter what the reasoning behind that opinion is. You either accept it, or you're wrong.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
CC judges can't judge wrong. It's factually impossible, because the judge's opinion is the only factor that matters, no matter what the reasoning behind that opinion is. You either accept it, or you're wrong.
I'm talking more about the ethics behind the choices than the actual choice- I'm fine if something is chosen that I think is garbage, I've already said that it's a matter of preference.
They've not said 'the judges are wrong', they've said the judges picked crappy ones (their opinion) and judges are unfair. While not for the same reasons, and the ones I've stated, I've seen some unfair judgements that were a conflict of interest.
I'm talking more about the ethics behind the choices than the actual choice- I'm fine if something is chosen that I think is garbage, I've already said that it's a matter of preference.
They've not said 'the judges are wrong', they've said the judges picked crappy ones (their opinion) and judges are unfair. While not for the same reasons, and the ones I've stated, I've seen some unfair judgements that were a conflict of interest.
Which would be valid if the player had any stake in who wins whatsoever. Has there ever been a CC where they charged an entry fee, or expected anything of the participants other than "Show up and stand there"? If you don't win, you leave with everything you came in with. So the judges picked a friend of theirs to win... what's so unethical about that? Favoratism is only wrong when someone loses out on something (important) because of it. Nobody is losing out on anything here, hence ethics doesn't apply.
On the other hand, a CC with an entry fee would definitely need a pretty strict rules structure so that the competitors know how to be competetive and can be sure that the resources they paid weren't just going into the promoter's pockets no matter what.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
It has a WTF Factor... that's for sure
I can't contribute anything about Costume contests, duo to the UNFRIENDLY EUROPEAN HOURS they take place 6:00 pm ...yeah... Europe has to Sleep/is sleeping
But I read a lot about CC Favoritism on Chats
Has anyone ever considered trying a contest that takes place over a full 24 hours? It could include different groups of judges for different time-regions. Perhaps 3 or 4 timezone groups. Then at the end of all of the regional contests, all of the judges could go back and review the vid-caps and screen caps to make a final ruling.
I win CC's often. In the screen shot I am the elf with the candy cane jet pack sitting. I won the Santa's little helper cat. When i say i win often I mean I win in about 10% of the CC's I enter. I seldom win the best cat (only won best twice) but do well in the cats.
#1 Make a costume you like.
#2 Be your own worse critic.
#3 Don't try to anticipate the judges taste.
#4 You will loose far more often than you win.
#5 If you enter to make G's you are wrong. (I spend much more in the tailor than I have
won)
#6 If you are not having fun, whats the point?
This advice is rather general because of the subjective nature of a CC.
So the judges picked a friend of theirs to win... what's so unethical about that? Favoratism is only wrong when someone loses out on something (important) because of it. Nobody is losing out on anything here, hence ethics doesn't apply.
I respectfully disagree with everything here.
Also, time is invested. Subjective, of course, but my time is an investment.
I have been to several different groups' CCs. If it seems unfair, annoying, or boring, I don't go back.
Now, I only go to CCs run by groups I like and trust.
Also, time is invested. Subjective, of course, but my time is an investment.
Yes, you invested your time. Your important time. Time you will never get back.
You invested it into a video game... into standing in one spot for an hour in a video game... on the off chance you might win a few Resources useful only in that video game.
I think a judge who completely disregards the importance of the time that you invested into the costume contest is giving that time just as much regard as you did.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
So the judges picked a friend of theirs to win... what's so unethical about that? Favoratism is only wrong when someone loses out on something (important) because of it. Nobody is losing out on anything here, hence ethics doesn't apply.
This statement is wrong on so many level it's not even funny... CCs are only fun if you know you have equal chances as the next guy to win. As I have previsouly commented, losing to a great costume is okay; losing because winner is the judges best buddy isn't. Winning isn't everything in these event, sure, but the prospect of winning is still part of the fun. And we do invest a *considerable* amount of time creating costumes, so we DO lose something when the hosts and judges show favoristism. How you can condone such practice baffles me.
This statement is wrong on so many level it's not even funny... CCs are only fun if you know you have equal chances as the next guy to win. As I have previsouly commented, losing to a great costume is okay; losing because winner is the judges best buddy isn't. Winning isn't everything in these event, sure, but the prospect of winning is still part of the fun. And we do invest a *considerable* amount of time creating costumes, so we DO lose something when the hosts and judges show favoristism. How you can condone such practice baffles me.
You go to costume contests to win. You're doing it wrong.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
You go to costume contests to win. You're doing it wrong.
Of course, how could I have even hoped for something different than the classic de facto response of a person that has no real good argument... Keep digging yourself deeper into that hole.
Oh I agree, we should go to CCs to have fun first and foremost, I won't argue that. However... Unfairness is not 'fun', no matter how you put it. Just like in any other competitive field, being beaten by a good opponent is okay because it's fair, both side have even chances. But when the worst of the worst wins because judges apparently don't value good qualities in a costume or are highly biaised toward certain players or whatever, it's incredibly frustrating and, again, not 'fun' in the least.
Whether you have a costume that won a CC or just one that you are proud of, there are many, MANY threads on this board that let guys like me, who are terrible with the Costume Creator, see what great costumes look like.
Just a few of the many threads that have - IMHO - many creative costume and heroes.
While I would likely never pick a demon or undead as a hero, because my preference moves more toward the traditional cape and/or tights wearing heroes, I can still appreciate the time and effort that goes into all of these creations. Also, if the words - Ooooh, shiny - come to mind I will likely enjoy that costume as well.
As always, in threads such as these, best is subjective, and there are no actual winners or losers. Instead we all get to look at many kinds of costumes and enjoy the ones that suit our tastes, and then, we can either skip past the ones we don't like, or consider if a variation of those might make for a good villain costume for our next Nemesis.
All of that said, I wonder if it has been considered that not everyone has the same level of computer hardware. What are the chances that at least some of the losers of CCs have no clue what their costume looks like on a different systems?
* Mostly, I go to CCs to browse other people's concepts (or to stand there while I'm AFK on a netbook). As a roleplayer and someone who enjoys the comic hero aesthetic, I prefer to go to contests where both the costume and descriptions are important, since they tend to attract players of similar minds to my own. And then I get ideas and want to make a similar character, only to feel ashamed about it and never do.
* The only time contests seem to explicitly award for "tights" is if Retro/Classic is specified (on its own or as part of another category). So, if you don't see those key words, anything is fair game even it looks like someone rolled the randomizer.
* People actually do have a small bearing on whether or not they get picked as a CC winner: by showing up. You can't win if you don't play.
* Wanting to touch on someone's comment about a particular CC. In hindsight, there were probably some mistakes made, but it should be absolutely clear that the "group" running it wasn't any specific SG, but a community that wanted to do something special for itself first and foremost. Putting a face to the public caused some consequences (there was a thread exactly like this, remember?) and soured the opinion of running something in that particular way again.
* This doesn't actually bother me, but I'll admit that there've been times where I've thought on the offhand that main contest-running SGs particpate in each other's CCs to shuffle Resources around. /conspiracytheory
With that said, many of the winners in this case actually have great costumes and concepts.
First of all, CCs (Costume Contests) are unique to this game! In no other game, you will never meet such amaizing event!
What is not that amaizing about CCs, well, is their Judges! In most of the cases, Judges are not fair when it comes to pick up the best costume! They pick costumes that sometimes doesn`t even match the cat (category), the gender of the costume and many other cat specifications!
If you ask me, most of the Judges are simply blind when it comes to choose the best costume!
Many people loose CCs just because Judges are not objective enough to pick a best costume!
I have been in some CCs (not too many) and I cleary see that most of the Judges aren`t fair when it comes to pick a costume! And when you ask the judges why they didn`t pick your costume as best, they bring up some stupid arguments like: "your costume is too sexy", "I don`t like the mettalic texture" and many more of these kind! And when you say to them that these reasons aren`t that solid to reject your costume, they simply start saying that: "start doing your own CCs and judge them"! With that reason is cleary tha the CC judging will not improve this way!
If you wanna know how many CCs I have won? Well, ... none and I don`t thinink I will won one single CC in this game! Why? Becuase of the reasons I listed above! And I don`t think I will ever participate at a CC, except the cases when someone want to judge costume, and believe me, I`m not the person who choose crappy costumes as best ones!
And if you are courious why I quit CCs, well let`s give you an example on how fair can a judge can be! Of course I won`t say any names!
Recently I have participated at a Christmas CC hosted by a judge! I choosed the last cat of the CC, named Mrs and Mr Santa! Here is my costume:
(I`m the one with the red hat and the red cape)
You might wonder who won the Mrs. Santa Costume? Cleary not me, even if I did such nice piece or work. This guy won:
(The one with the white gloves, bear shoulderpads and who is showing his muscles! The other guy is Mr. Santa!)
So yea, this ugly dude, with oversized Grond body, black stockings, red dress and doll face had won the Mrs Santa cat, instead of me!
So, do you think is fair? Do you think this dude should have won for Mrs. Santa? I mean c`mon he`s a dude, he`s ugly AND silly dressed! How in the world this dude could have won a single CC as Mrs Santa?!?!
But this is only an example on how UNFAIR Judges can be in CCs! If this will still continue as it continues today, I only hope CCs will have the same fate as PvP! And by saying that, I say everything!
Have a wonderfull day! And "happy" CCs!
While the winner is hilarious, I think the category should have and should be more clear. I seen many costume contests say the yare looking for the Best Power Armor outfit, then pick the wackiest looking creature on the planet. I mean if it's supposed to be the judging of the wackiest looking costume, then that should be clear Best Wackiest Looking Power Armor contest. But when it's titles as best but the winner is something that definitely would probably be an eye sore in a movie/comic book, although funny as hell as they may be, then of course questions will rise on the judging ability of best costume.
Then of course I would be lying if I said there isn't no bias in a lot of costume contest. Sometimes a SG may have the best costume, but that is like saying I'm hiring for this multimillion dollar contract and even though there is many highly qualified people, I hire my nephew. Now on the surface it would look weird as all get out and might even bring some lawsuits. But maybe they are truly the most qualified. Then again, maybe it's pure favoritism and since I have the money and offering I can choose who ever I want. But does that make it right, just because I can choose who ever I want since I have the money? Maybe, depending on view. Probably not to the people that losing out.
Yeah people can do their own CC and this and that, but just because problems are ignored doesn't make them go away. I just hope people take the most important thing away and try to judge fairly and be clear on the categories of what they are looking for. Are they looking for Christmas themed costumes or wacky comedy Christmas themed costumes? Like that contract thing, I say I'm looking for hard working builders, and instead choose someone who built a meter high tower with legos and called it the best builder. In my eyes, he might be the best builder. Outside looking in, people probably will question. It's natural. But some say it's my money my contract they came to me so if I say that my lego building nephew is the winner of the millons and the best, then that is the end of it. He's the best because I said so. Theycan go make their own contracts
I don't expect to win a particular game of poker at the casino, and am not going to whine when the guy next to me outplays me.
I agree also. This ties to what I said already. You go to the casino for fun first and foremost. Losing is no big deal but winning is bonus fun. However, if the dealer purposely hands out all the aces to the guy sitting next to you, whether you are there for fun or to make some serious money, you'll get pissed pretty quickly. Fun can only be had with the notion of fair play in mind. This is true for virtually everything ever.
And that right there, seems to be part of the problem. If you are relying on packaged costume parts as the main focus of your theme. You are kinda missing the whole point.
If I could only make a Santa using only Santa parts. What exactly would I be judged on in a contest? My appropriate use of parts? The colors I chose?
In real life, at a real costume contest. Would you, yourself, pick the store bought Spiderman costume complete with plastic face mask, held on by a rubber band. Or would you pick the one that was home made, and done custom, and looks like it took more effort then just opening the package and putting it on?
I still don`t understand your point of view, sockmunkey! When you first posted you said that, besides my had, what I`m wearing is only tights, so it kinda looks like a hero costume to you rather than a Mrs Santa? And now you say what...? That I`m relying on costume parts to make my own costume? And that is supposed to be wrong? Sry hun but you`re the one who missed the whole ideea!
I said there`s no Mrs. Santa & Mr. Santa costume parts in game only to point out that, if they would exist, I would probably use some parts for making my Mrs. Santa Costume look better than it does now (not that now it looks worse, but maybe with those parts it could be better).
What you are doing here is only to contradict yourself!
Funny thing about art and what people like is that art is subjective. Most contest judges, as hard as they try to be objective, are influenced by their personal tastes in some way.
Though this seems just like someone crying because they didn't win a contest.
I was the Santa on the far left with the starburst pattern on the torso.
I didn't win any category with any of my costumes, even ones that I thought I had a fair shot and got lots of compliments for in private tells. Also, with few exceptions the people I would have picked for top didn't win either. And yet I had a great time, and walked away totally happy with how things went because I was not the judge and I go these things to have fun and see what crazy things other people are trying with costumes. Things like the non-judge who commented how my snow goon costume was nightmare fuel is worth far more to me then a few measly G I could just grind out by spending the same amount of time actually playing. Also the holder of that contest gave money to *everybody* who lined up that end, even non-winners, so it was a profitable evening anyway (though I wouldn't expect to see that sort of thing happen to often obviously).
This is aside from the fact that I had no actual issue with the pick for Mrs Clause as I love off-the-wall approaches to things, even if it meant that my wife's entry (the hoofed lady in the skirt sharing the square with me) was also passed over. Most of the other picks for winners were not bizarre looking, so obviously that one the judge just found particularly striking.
Yea, you are right here! Everybody there got some Gs and I wasn`t ungratefull to the judge who did such a nice thing to all! I thanked many times for the kind gesture! And yes that was a nice done CC with a great atmosphere! I didn`t regret that I participate at the CC, my only regret is that I didn`t win at my cat! And please, don`t make me a sole loser again because I`m not!
Just admit it, you (I`m not making any reference to anybody when I say you, so don`t take it as personal thing) aren`t the happiest person in the world when you lose a CC! That simply doesn`t make you a sore loser! And I have the right to express my opinion about what disturbs me!
And to answer to everybody, this isn`t a thread about how "sore loser I am that I didn`t win that CC" and is not exclusively all-about-me, if you (when I say you, I mean any of you) think that, you are getting all wrong! This is meant to be a general discussion about CCs and how judges really judge these CCs! I gaved my example only because it was the only one I had to offer! I couldn`t get any better example!
I win CC's often. In the screen shot I am the elf with the candy cane jet pack sitting. I won the Santa's little helper cat. When i say i win often I mean I win in about 10% of the CC's I enter. I seldom win the best cat (only won best twice) but do well in the cats.
#1 Make a costume you like.
#2 Be your own worse critic.
#3 Don't try to anticipate the judges taste.
#4 You will loose far more often than you win.
#5 If you enter to make G's you are wrong. (I spend much more in the tailor than I have
won)
#6 If you are not having fun, whats the point?
This advice is rather general because of the subjective nature of a CC.
Like I said in game I said here too! You had a really awsome Costume and I had a feling you would win! I`m really glad that you win that cat!
I`m not agree with the #5! I don`t enter to a CC to make Gs! I know my methods (maybe they are long and tendious) to make Gs in game.
#3 in some cases I do which is wrong, yea!
But I`m totally agree with the #1, #2, #4 and #6!
Yea, you are right here! Everybody there got some Gs and I wasn`t ungratefull to the judge who did such a nice thing to all! I thanked many times for the kind gesture! And yes that was a nice done CC with a great atmosphere! I didn`t regret that I participate at the CC, my only regret is that I didn`t win at my cat! And please, don`t make me a sole loser again because I`m not!
Just admit it, you (I`m not making any reference to anybody when I say you, so don`t take it as personal thing) aren`t the happiest person in the world when you lose a CC! That simply doesn`t make you a sore loser! And I have the right to express my opinion about what disturbs me!
And to answer to everybody, this isn`t a thread about how "sore loser I am that I didn`t win that CC" and is not exclusively all-about-me, if you (when I say you, I mean any of you) think that, you are getting all wrong! This is meant to be a general discussion about CCs and how judges really judge these CCs! I gaved my example only because it was the only one I had to offer! I couldn`t get any better example!
With all due respect Luna, this post is in conflict with your original post.
You titled this topic "The only truth you need to know about CCs". Don't you think that's a bit unfair? This tells people that all CCs are the same--and we all know that ain't true. Everyone has different tastes. Did it ever occur to you to ask the host what they were looking for, for that particular category? Many hosts, myself included, use a broader theme because we want to see clever interpretations. If you didn't bother to be inquisitive, don't you think it might be a bit unfair and insensitive to the host for you to plaster their choices in public if you didn't care to verify what was and wasn't acceptable for said category?
On that note, you posted a topic about how this CC has made you quit going to all CCs. Putting aside the fact that prizes were handed out to everyone, you still felt in necessary to berate their organized event publicly (and let's be honest, we all know which event it was) simply because you didn't get what you wanted? And then you post how you don't want to be seen as a sore loser, just that you regret not winning?
If this seems right to you, then there's really nothing anyone on here is going to say that will make a lick of difference.
You go to costume contests to win. You're doing it wrong.
Contest implies competition, otherwise this would be called something else. I'm not in it 'to win', but it's great if I do.
I wouldn't enter my bike or car into a car show 'to win', but I do expect to be judged fairly and not see the judges hand it off to some bimbo with a stock bike and a hello kitty sticker on the gas tank just because she's married to one of them.
Yes, you invested your time. Your important time. Time you will never get back.
You invested it into a video game... into standing in one spot for an hour in a video game... on the off chance you might win a few Resources useful only in that video game.
I think a judge who completely disregards the importance of the time that you invested into the costume contest is giving that time just as much regard as you did.
I'm not whining here about winning or losing. However, you're just looking to argue and squabble. You've resorted to simply devaluing the very thing you're arguing about now, and it's kind of sad.
While the winner is hilarious, I think the category should have and should be more clear. I seen many costume contests say the yare looking for the Best Power Armor outfit, then pick the wackiest looking creature on the planet. I mean if it's supposed to be the judging of the wackiest looking costume, then that should be clear Best Wackiest Looking Power Armor contest. But when it's titles as best but the winner is something that definitely would probably be an eye sore in a movie/comic book, although funny as hell as they may be, then of course questions will rise on the judging ability of best costume.
Then of course I would be lying if I said there isn't no bias in a lot of costume contest. Sometimes a SG may have the best costume, but that is like saying I'm hiring for this multimillion dollar contract and even though there is many highly qualified people, I hire my nephew. Now on the surface it would look weird as all get out and might even bring some lawsuits. But maybe they are truly the most qualified. Then again, maybe it's pure favoritism and since I have the money and offering I can choose who ever I want. But does that make it right, just because I can choose who ever I want since I have the money? Maybe, depending on view. Probably not to the people that losing out.
Yeah people can do their own CC and this and that, but just because problems are ignored doesn't make them go away. I just hope people take the most important thing away and try to judge fairly and be clear on the categories of what they are looking for. Are they looking for Christmas themed costumes or wacky comedy Christmas themed costumes? Like that contract thing, I say I'm looking for hard working builders, and instead choose someone who built a meter high tower with legos and called it the best builder. In my eyes, he might be the best builder. Outside looking in, people probably will question. It's natural. But some say it's my money my contract they came to me so if I say that my lego building nephew is the winner of the millons and the best, then that is the end of it. He's the best because I said so. Theycan go make their own contracts
I admit, I really like how mature and objective you treat this subject and all the subjects on this forum where you are writing!
I liked one ideea that you pint-point in this reply! The categories of a CC should be more clear and judges should have some sorf of criteria when they judge a cat! Only then they could correctly pick the winner of a CC! This is all I wanted to say on this thread!
I feel like firing back at this entire thread. Hi guys, I'm @eviltaco. I win frequently in a variety of categories, and I'm a director in spear, which hosted the first costume contests the game ever saw. I was also a participant in em. I like to think this makes me a bit of an expert.
Sure, the person could do that... but if he is aspiring to actually winning a contest, he can't really do that while hosting his own contests now can he?
The logic behind this one is that if you've never hosted a contest, you won't know how hard it is to pick winners. And if you've never had some troll whine about who you picked, you won't know what it feels like to wish you could reach through the internet and choke someone.
- "They're the ones handing out the prizes, they can do whatever they want."
Of course, but does that mean they can't strive to be fair and honest to all the participants? Or staying true to the categories they have chosen and so on?
Most of the time, and I say *most*, they do stay true to their vision of the categories. If that doesn't mesh with yours, that's not really their fault. When it comes to stuff like the op, where an oddball concept wins for a category? The judges look for what strikes them as the best embodiment of that concept. Sometimes funny works. @metallical has a muppet he runs around with that wins all sorts of contests. Why? Because sometimes a muppet in power armor is funny.
- "CCs are for fun, not for winning."
<snip>But when the worst of the worst wins because judges apparently don't value good qualities in a costume or are highly biaised toward certain players or whatever, it's incredibly frustrating and, again, not 'fun' in the least.
1: It's presumptuous to call anything "the worst of the worst" when you're dealing with subjective players. I know you in game, so I know you're not the sort that does this, but consider the fact that there's a *person* on the other end of that costume someone calls awful. A person with feelings.
2: Yeah, certain players tend to place a lot. Maybe it's a general ability they have, and not a matter of judges playing favorites? Hell, I still place in ccs held by super groups that I didn't leave on very good terms. A good costume is still a good costume.
- "If you don't like it, don't go."
Right. I like making costumes, I like showing them off in CCs, but I can't critisize anything I feel that's wrong with them? Not a very healthy attitude.
To that specific group's events. Just tack that on the end and it becomes a lot more healthy. I've walked out of costume contests before when something was going on that I disagreed with. I have a few groups that have tastes that are wildly different from my own, so I just avoid their stuff. It's not to say their taste is *bad*, but I disagree with it, and therefore don't waste my time.
1) Probably the biggest problem of all... Most judges do not have consistent criterias established among themselves on which to base their selections on; it's pretty much a free for all which often leads to odd choices or judges not really having any defined idea of what to look for.
I think you'd find the cc scene to be a pretty boring place if everyone had a set list of criteria by which they judged every category. "retro needs to be lean tights with little accouterments, and a 4 color pallet" would make for a pretty boring playing field. And that one creative golden age rocketeer concept would feel pretty discriminated against if he didn't win. See where I'm going with this?
3) Time plays against the judges. Most CCs with no switching last 20-30 minutes with a judging period of 10-15 minutes which is VERY little time. You only really spend a few seconds per costumes which is hardly enough time to make a clear decision, even less time to debate among your peers to make a final decision. I know when I'm judging I always feel pressured to do it rapidly, something I really dislike.
Varies. Judges that are nervous taking however long they damn well like to look over costumes are doing it wrong, and some of us can give a costume a second and a half of a once over and see every individual piece being used, and the gestalt of the costume. I think the best example of oddball judging that works wonders is bluhman. That crazy bastard does zig zags through the field with no discernible pattern, and *always* picks the best of the best.
5) Favoritism is also an issue.
Whoa, hold the boat here. 2 issues I have with this.
1: Why would I farm gs and get everyone to stand around for a half hour, just so I can give my friend 20g?
2: It's actually incredibly insulting to insinuate this is the case. Again, I know you don't mean it personally, but consider what you're proposing. The cc favortism issue is basically a vast conspiracy theory where there's some underground network of cc judges who're all having a big circle jerk in public, waxing each other's e-peen by making others think we have the best costume. I don't even know how to approach how wrong that is.
6) Another issue - one that ties with #1 - is judges picking wacky, weird, funny, effed up costume for categories that does not really call for such a choice. Actually, this was pretty much the OP's biggest complaint and one of my personal pet peeve as well. Originality is good but it doesn't necesseraly equate quality or good looking. If a costume made you laugh, fine, give them a honorable mention for their effort but pick a proper winner for the said category. So if you have a cat like, I don't know, 'Military' and someone shows up with nothing but a pink j-string and a bazooka in hand and you somehow find it hilarious, should it really take precedence over someone who's actually dressed up as a military guy? Is it fair to pick the former over the latter? In my opinion it isn't.
Nope. If a judge feels the wacky is the best, the wacky is the best. It's subjective, but you're picking what stands out to you as the best example of a certain theme. There are no set rules to a costume contest, and I already covered how having such concrete restrictions can be absolutely awful to the player that's thinking outside the box. If it fits inside the category, but is wacky, it still fits inside the category and therefore is capable of winning. A pink g string isn't military. But an evil rabbit in fatigues would be. See?
Anyway, enough of me ranting endlessly... I was tossing around the idea of writing a guide on judging costumes and another for creating good costumes. Would people like that? Yay or Nay?
Can always use more guides. But flare put together a really good guide to judging ccs. A good costume guide could be a ton of work, but I'd like to see it.
When I see someone win X Supergroup's costume contest, I'll make a note of them. What they wore, what categories they won, etc. I'll go to another X Supergroup costume contest, and if I see this person win repeatedly, I'll just not attend the costume contest- especially if this person is playing an alt and is a part of the SG (I've seen this happen). I won't waste my time on this group any more, and I will find other things to do.
Point, dude. I'm in, or have been in, hundreds of super groups. I've been in every cc holding super group there is, barring maybe 2 that just don't fit my concept. But, my current allegiance is spear, and they're who I identify with most strongly as a member of. SGs don't matter in the slightest, since they're just a tag over your head and there's NO content hard enough or worthwhile enough to have SG raids. So, wtf does it matter if an alt wins? Spear has a hard rule that nobody *on an SG character* can enter our ccs. But if you're on an alt in a different sg? That toon isn't affiliated with us, and will be judged as fairly as we judge everyone else. That's not favortism, that's unbiased judging.
I will also say that I've seen groups pick their own members under alt accounts, and use costume contests as a way of making each other look and feel better than the 'unwashed masses'. The actual wording I use for this sort of thing isn't appropriate for the forums, but it involves hands and genitals as a gesture of friendship.
See above for my opinion on this. It's a pretty harsh conspiracy theory that imo is at best untrue, and at worst insulting.
I can share my observations and notes with others. When X Supergroup advertises in Zone Chat about their Costume Contest, I can be a jerk and ask in that same Zone chat 'Will @mrdudeguy from your SG win two categories again with one of his alts like last week and the week before?' It's a jerk move, but it's not completely without merit.
I'd love to see you do this. I respect you, and we've had some great exchanges in the past, but know that if you did it to me I'd tear you in half. "oh, you mean the same @mrdudeguy who's also in conquer, red academy, ids, bos, and sodlag? Gee, who's left for him to compete at if he avoids every cc for every super group he's got an alt in?" Because really dude, you usually make a fair bit of sense and some great points. This logic just doesn't hold up.
Hey OP, can you give me your @ handle so I can shoot you an ignore in game? A whine thread on the forum about losing a CC is a new low, and I'd hate to think I'd actually be nice to you in game at any point. Your outfit is awful, and didn't even merit a second glance.
Actually, I'm lying. Your outfit was just fine. But that half a second "WTF?" you just felt? You are doing that to the person who actually won, with this thread and your complaints. There's a person on the other side of that costume, who spent time trying to come up with an eye-bleaching and well thought out concept. A person with feelings, who may be actually pretty upset about people knocking their hard work. And you're insulting them directly, like it's no thing, saying they didn't deserve to win. It's disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
With all due respect Luna, this post is in conflict with your original post.
You titled this topic "The only truth you need to know about CCs". Don't you think that's a bit unfair? This tells people that all CCs are the same--and we all know that ain't true. Everyone has different tastes. Did it ever occur to you to ask the host what they were looking for, for that particular category? Many hosts, myself included, use a broader theme because we want to see clever interpretations. If you didn't bother to be inquisitive, don't you think it might be a bit unfair and insensitive to the host for you to plaster their choices in public if you didn't care to verify what was and wasn't acceptable for said category?
On that note, you posted a topic about how this CC has made you quit going to all CCs. Putting aside the fact that prizes were handed out to everyone, you still felt in necessary to berate their organized event publicly (and let's be honest, we all know which event it was) simply because you didn't get what you wanted? And then you post how you don't want to be seen as a sore loser, just that you regret not winning?
If this seems right to you, then there's really nothing anyone on here is going to say that will make a lick of difference.
"you posted a topic about how this CC has made you quit going to all CCs." yes that was a pesonal statement! I hope you don`t have anything against about my personal statements in a thread! The title of this thread IS NOT "How CCs made me quit!" is about the truth of CCs (at least some of them)
"This tells people that all CCs are the same--and we all know that ain't true."
Only SOME CCs ARE THAT WAY, NOT ALL OF THEM ARE THE WAY I DESCRIBED THEM IN THIS THREAD! I`m not sarcastic, it is true! Hope, I now, set things right, here!
"Did it ever occur to you to ask the host what they were looking for, for that particular category?"
To be honest nope! That cat was a general one! It cleary didn`t say: "The WTFs/Wackiest Mr and Mrs Santa Costume" it only said "Mrs and Mr Santa"! And again, to be honest, it was a punch in the face for me when I saw that the judge picked that costume!
Generally speaking, in most cases I don`t ask the judges what they are looking for only because most of them don`t really say what they are looking for (they say that they (at least some of them) don`t want to favorize me or any other participants) and second in most cases the cat speaks for themselfs!
"and let's be honest, we all know which event it was" and what is the point of your saying? to know what event it was? the name of the event? the name of the participants? the name of the JUDGE? it is really that, the whole point of this thread?
"you still felt in necessary to berate their organized event publicly simply because you didn't get what you wanted?"
I didn`t berate any organised (CC) publicly and If I did that please post that dam reply so everyone can see it and so I can make Mea Culpa for my mistake! Yes, I didn`t get what I wanted and I don`t think everybody here, gets what they want in their life, don`t we? And it doesn`t matter that! That`s (again) not the point of this thread!
I'd hate to think I'd actually be nice to you in game at any point.
Actually, I'm lying. Your outfit was just fine. But that half a second "WTF?" you just felt? You are doing that to the person who actually won, with this thread and your complaints. There's a person on the other side of that costume, who spent time trying to come up with an eye-bleaching and well thought out concept. A person with feelings, who may be actually pretty upset about people knocking their hard work. And you're insulting them directly, like it's no thing, saying they didn't deserve to win. It's disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Ok, I`m sry for insulting that guy, who really did an awsome job doing a MRS Santa! Mea Culpa ok? It was the only example I would bring up. If I didn`t bring any example to this thread ppl would probably say: "And you really have any evidence that really happened? Any example?"
If you guys, think that I should remove the pictures I will do that! And maybe I will if is that the right thing to do! That way I won`t insult anybody!
Just a personal question: How would you treat me in game, if you could find me, after all I said in this thread?
I'd love to see you do this. I respect you, and we've had some great exchanges in the past, but know that if you did it to me I'd tear you in half. "oh, you mean the same @mrdudeguy who's also in conquer, red academy, ids, bos, and sodlag? Gee, who's left for him to compete at if he avoids every cc for every super group he's got an alt in?" Because really dude, you usually make a fair bit of sense and some great points. This logic just doesn't hold up.
It does.
If it happens once, and the guy's got an alt in your SG, I'm cool with that. if he's winning your contests two or three times a month, I'm going to question it. Openly.
Sure, the person could do that... but if he is aspiring to actually winning a contest, he can't really do that while hosting his own contests now can he?
The logic behind this one is that if you've never hosted a contest, you won't know how hard it is to pick winners. And if you've never had some troll whine about who you picked, you won't know what it feels like to wish you could reach through the internet and choke someone.
I know what you're saying, but it's still too often thrown around as a pretty dismissive rebuttal to anyone who might have something to say. I've hosted CCs and judged costumes (not all that many, granted, but still), I know it's not always easy, yet I can still have problems with other people's method of conducting a contest or how they judge.
<snip>But when the worst of the worst wins because judges apparently don't value good qualities in a costume or are highly biaised toward certain players or whatever, it's incredibly frustrating and, again, not 'fun' in the least.
1: It's presumptuous to call anything "the worst of the worst" when you're dealing with subjective players. I know you in game, so I know you're not the sort that does this, but consider the fact that there's a *person* on the other end of that costume someone calls awful. A person with feelings.
2: Yeah, certain players tend to place a lot. Maybe it's a general ability they have, and not a matter of judges playing favorites? Hell, I still place in ccs held by super groups that I didn't leave on very good terms. A good costume is still a good costume.
1- I only said 'worst of the worst' as an extreme example of not the best costume winning, to make the gap blatlantly obvious. I would never dare call someone the worst, and I certainly wasn't aiming that comment to anyone in particular.
2- Some do have skills and I have no problem with them winning, but others I just don't see it. There's also the fact that many continously show up with the same character wearing nearly always the same costume. Personally I always make the effort to diversify my entries across all my characters and I even 'retire' some costumes once they've won a few times.
1) Probably the biggest problem of all... Most judges do not have consistent criterias established among themselves on which to base their selections on; it's pretty much a free for all which often leads to odd choices or judges not really having any defined idea of what to look for.
I think you'd find the cc scene to be a pretty boring place if everyone had a set list of criteria by which they judged every category. "retro needs to be lean tights with little accouterments, and a 4 color pallet" would make for a pretty boring playing field. And that one creative golden age rocketeer concept would feel pretty discriminated against if he didn't win. See where I'm going with this?
No that's not the sort of criteria I meant, I'm talking about general estheticism. That's more like good body proportions, good color combinations, good and proper use of textures and so on. If you look at a comic book (or any other media really), these are the things you expect to find in quality art work (and that's why Rob Liefeld will always be terrible terrible artist in my book). These really aren't meant be restrictive, they're simply indicators of good taste.
3) Time plays against the judges. Most CCs with no switching last 20-30 minutes with a judging period of 10-15 minutes which is VERY little time. You only really spend a few seconds per costumes which is hardly enough time to make a clear decision, even less time to debate among your peers to make a final decision. I know when I'm judging I always feel pressured to do it rapidly, something I really dislike.
Varies. Judges that are nervous taking however long they damn well like to look over costumes are doing it wrong, and some of us can give a costume a second and a half of a once over and see every individual piece being used, and the gestalt of the costume. I think the best example of oddball judging that works wonders is bluhman. That crazy bastard does zig zags through the field with no discernible pattern, and *always* picks the best of the best.
By going too fast you might miss details that might have tipped the balance, especially if you have more than a few costumes that are pretty even match. Sure, I can get the general feel of a costume with a quick glance too but I always make the point to look further. If you went to a real cosplay contest (and I have btw) you would want the judges to pay close attention to your costume and not just give you a measly 2 second look.
Whoa, hold the boat here. 2 issues I have with this.
1: Why would I farm gs and get everyone to stand around for a half hour, just so I can give my friend 20g?
2: It's actually incredibly insulting to insinuate this is the case. Again, I know you don't mean it personally, but consider what you're proposing. The cc favortism issue is basically a vast conspiracy theory where there's some underground network of cc judges who're all having a big circle jerk in public, waxing each other's e-peen by making others think we have the best costume. I don't even know how to approach how wrong that is.
Well this is a case of whether you can really believe all the people out there are 100% honest and trustworthy - something which might be true if you live under a rock - or that reality is that someone people do in fact cheat and lie and that it's therefore not so wrong to presume that some form favoritism or another is likely taking place during these events. I'm not seeing all the time, but occasionally.
6) Another issue - one that ties with #1 - is judges picking wacky, weird, funny, effed up costume for categories that does not really call for such a choice. Actually, this was pretty much the OP's biggest complaint and one of my personal pet peeve as well. Originality is good but it doesn't necesseraly equate quality or good looking. If a costume made you laugh, fine, give them a honorable mention for their effort but pick a proper winner for the said category. So if you have a cat like, I don't know, 'Military' and someone shows up with nothing but a pink j-string and a bazooka in hand and you somehow find it hilarious, should it really take precedence over someone who's actually dressed up as a military guy? Is it fair to pick the former over the latter? In my opinion it isn't.
Nope. If a judge feels the wacky is the best, the wacky is the best. It's subjective, but you're picking what stands out to you as the best example of a certain theme. There are no set rules to a costume contest, and I already covered how having such concrete restrictions can be absolutely awful to the player that's thinking outside the box. If it fits inside the category, but is wacky, it still fits inside the category and therefore is capable of winning. A pink g string isn't military. But an evil rabbit in fatigues would be. See?
Well that's something we'll have to agree to disagree on somewhat. I've already addressed the restrictions issue as being, well, a non-issue. A rabbit in fatigues can fit in 'Military' just fine seeing as the focus is still given to the military aspect. I can just think of Ratassassin who always maintains his character's concept first and foremost and integrates the category around it. That works. I'm really speaking of far wackier stuff which I really feel should belong in a 'WTF' or 'Funny' category or, like I said, as an honorable mention.
...Just a personal question: How would you treat me in game, if you could find me, after all I said in this thread?
I would give you a pat on the back for having the guts to say what pretty much everyone has thought to themselves or said to their buddies after looking at the winners of a costume contest at one point or another, then a light smack upside the head for going about it the wrong way.
In general, making a stink about things in public is rarely a good choice unless you want to hurt the person/SG/etc in question because it can damage their reputation. Often it makes the accuser look petty as well.
Confronting in private is almost always the better choice. Even if you're upset, remember that name@name you're talking to is another person. Asking the judges, in a respectful manner and in private messages, what you might have done differently to help your chances at winning is an example of a good way.
As has been mentioned earlier, if after confronting the person/SG/whatever they're still consistently making choices you don't agree with or find questionable don't go to their CCs.
I still don`t understand your point of view, sockmunkey! When you first posted you said that, besides my had, what I`m wearing is only tights, so it kinda looks like a hero costume to you rather than a Mrs Santa? And now you say what...? That I`m relying on costume parts to make my own costume? And that is supposed to be wrong? Sry hun but you`re the one who missed the whole ideea!
I said there`s no Mrs. Santa & Mr. Santa costume parts in game only to point out that, if they would exist, I would probably use some parts for making my Mrs. Santa Costume look better than it does now (not that now it looks worse, but maybe with those parts it could be better).
What you are doing here is only to contradict yourself!
Honestly... your costume screams generic, plain, and "didn't try very hard". If you really care about winning CCs, there comes a time when you need to be able to admit to yourself that you didn't really put enough creativity into your costume to win. It's not about strictly adhering to the name of the category, it's about doing something in that category that stands out. The costume you had was a starting point, the type of thing a thousand other people would have whipped together in a minute to fit that catagory.
I agree also. This ties to what I said already. You go to the casino for fun first and foremost. Losing is no big deal but winning is bonus fun. However, if the dealer purposely hands out all the aces to the guy sitting next to you, whether you are there for fun or to make some serious money, you'll get pissed pretty quickly. Fun can only be had with the notion of fair play in mind. This is true for virtually everything ever.
You also have to pay for chips at the casino. You don't pay for anything at a costume contest. In fact, the only people paying for anything are the people handing out the prizes... you know, the people you're criticizing?
If you sit down at a poker table where the dealer is paying out all the money OUT OF HIS OWN POCKET, and you want to complain about how he deals the cards, I can guarantee that you're not going to win, and you'll look like an ungrateful whiny brat in the process who won't be asked to come back to the table to play again.
Contest implies competition, otherwise this would be called something else. I'm not in it 'to win', but it's great if I do.
I wouldn't enter my bike or car into a car show 'to win', but I do expect to be judged fairly and not see the judges hand it off to some bimbo with a stock bike and a hello kitty sticker on the gas tank just because she's married to one of them.
I'm not whining here about winning or losing. However, you're just looking to argue and squabble. You've resorted to simply devaluing the very thing you're arguing about now, and it's kind of sad.
This entire thread was started because someone wanted to argue and squabble. I'm not surprised at the responses I've gotten. I am after all basically saying "Be mature about it", to people who have demonstrated an inability to be mature about something as serious and important as a Costume Contest.
Watching people go time and time again to events that they already know have a good chance to not be judged in the way they think they ought to be, and be disappointed over and over when it turns out to be true, never learning from their experience, never gaining the ability to take it for what it is rather than what it, in their opinion, should be... and the whole time never realizing all the actual effort the people they're criticizing put into giving them a simple good time...
That's what's sad.
Go host and judge a costume contest. Do it "the right way" where no one disagrees with your decision. Then write a guide for how you managed to do that.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
You also have to pay for chips at the casino. You don't pay for anything at a costume contest. In fact, the only people paying for anything are the people handing out the prizes... you know, the people you're criticizing?
If you sit down at a poker table where the dealer is paying out all the money OUT OF HIS OWN POCKET, and you want to complain about how he deals the cards, I can guarantee that you're not going to win, and you'll look like an ungrateful whiny brat in the process who won't be asked to come back to the table to play again.
Still not getting the point I see...
Even if the dealer is giving out money out of is own pocket and the goodness of his heart, what's the point of being there if he's only rewarding the same person over and over and over again. What exactly is the fun in being there playing at that table when you know full well you don't even have the slightest chance to begin with. Again... UNFAIRNESS IS NOT FUN. Maybe if I repeat it enough time you'll get it but I doubt it.
With the current reports of the North Pole melting, did anyone dress as Santa in a wetsuit?
Or a swim suit holding a coconut beverage with a bendy straw and a little umbrella and a surfboard in the other. Santa likes to spend 364 days on the beach at the North Pole :biggrin:
I agree also. This ties to what I said already. You go to the casino for fun first and foremost. Losing is no big deal but winning is bonus fun. However, if the dealer purposely hands out all the aces to the guy sitting next to you, whether you are there for fun or to make some serious money, you'll get pissed pretty quickly. Fun can only be had with the notion of fair play in mind. This is true for virtually everything ever.
Yeah, I suppose this is where we see that the analogy has broken down because the guy who won, had a better costume. Nobody handed him anything, he won it.
Honestly... your costume screams generic, plain, and "didn't try very hard". If you really care about winning CCs, there comes a time when you need to be able to admit to yourself that you didn't really put enough creativity into your costume to win. It's not about strictly adhering to the name of the category, it's about doing something in that category that stands out. there comes a time when you need to be able to admit to yourself that you didn't really put enough creativity into your costume to win.
Well... I`m really sry If I didn`used Random button to make a (awsome, wonderfull, beautifull, bla,bla,blablabla)costume like that! And again I`m sry that it looks too good to win that cat!
"...there comes a time when you need to be able to admit to yourself that you didn't really put enough creativity into your costume to win."
I`m sry that I make my costume with what costume parts I had! I`m really sry for that! HOW DARE I TO MAKE SUCH A SEXY/BEAUTIFULL COSTUME INSTEAD OF WTF ONE?!
"there comes a time when you need to be able to admit to yourself that you didn't really put enough creativity into your costume to win."
Is that so? If you`re right, why I was the only girl with that costume at that CC? Can you tell me why? And why it wasn`t too many ppl that choosed "Mrs Santa" cat? Why nobody created a costume like mine at that CC?
Why nobody created a costume like mine at that CC?
No offense, but maybe they knew better. Perhaps they were trying to win. There was nothing wrong with your costume, but, "there is nothing wrong with it," is not a ringing endorsement for winning any form of style or fashion competition.
If everyone colored exactly within the lines, painted exactly according to the numbers, in order to qualify as a viable contestant, then every entry would essentially be the same. This is not about hitting the random button, its about being unpredictable, creative, thinking outside of the box, standing out from the crowd, all while following the spirit of the category.
The first time I won a costume contest, the category was "best use of pink". I had one of the only male toons. Most of the female toons were sexy and pink, but there were also pink classic supers, pink sentais, and pink robots.
Anyway, I had a costume that was "classic tights" style using pink and white, on my hero, "Pride". I won because I used the color well, and because I stood out from the pack (according to the judges). They also liked that I made a male toon using pink that wasn't a joke.
I will go to that group's CCs again (and have), because I found it fun, and I find their judges to be fair and thoughtful.
Even if the dealer is giving out money out of is own pocket and the goodness of his heart, what's the point of being there if he's only rewarding the same person over and over and over again. What exactly is the fun in being there playing at that table when you know full well you don't even have the slightest chance to begin with. Again... UNFAIRNESS IS NOT FUN. Maybe if I repeat it enough time you'll get it but I doubt it.
What's the point of being there. That's the point you're not getting. It's been said many times in this thread, and I'll repeat it again, and I'll probably have to repeat it again later. The point is to hang out and have fun; if you win, neat, if not, no big deal.
The other point is that since you put in none of the effort to acquire the prize money, or whatever the prize may be, that you have no say whatsoever in how it is distributed.
If you can't have fun without winning, then don't go. If you can have fun without winning, then what are you complaining about?
Well... I`m really sry If I didn`used Random button to make a (awsome, wonderfull, beautifull, bla,bla,blablabla)costume like that! And again I`m sry that it looks too good to win that cat!
"...there comes a time when you need to be able to admit to yourself that you didn't really put enough creativity into your costume to win."
I`m sry that I make my costume with what costume parts I had! I`m really sry for that! HOW DARE I TO MAKE SUCH A SEXY/BEAUTIFULL COSTUME INSTEAD OF WTF ONE?!
"there comes a time when you need to be able to admit to yourself that you didn't really put enough creativity into your costume to win."
Is that so? If you`re right, why I was the only girl with that costume at that CC? Can you tell me why? And why it wasn`t too many ppl that choosed "Mrs Santa" cat? Why nobody created a costume like mine at that CC?
Wow, what a mature response without any sort of childish outbursts.
You keep talking about the random button... did it ever occur to you that the guy who won didn't use the random button? Go push the random button a few times, see what comes up, it'll be enlightening.
You say you made your costume with what costume parts you had... those are all the costume parts you had? Wow, I've never payed a dime for this game and I have about a thousand more parts than you do, strange! Also, I think you're overestimating your costume when you call it "sexy/beautiful". You're also misunderstanding what wins CCs... it's not a swimsuit pageant.
Yes, you were the only one with that specific combination of costume parts. If there had been others with that exact costume, that sure would have been a coincidence, considering how many costume pieces are available. It's entirely possble that a lot of other people also "threw on a bunch of red clothing and a christmas hat" just like you though... in fact, if I look at that picture you gave, I see three people behind you who basically had the same idea as you.
At some point, you have to admit that even if you spent hours in the tailor making that costume, that at the end it really does look like you just "threw on a bunch of red clothing and christmas hat" and clicked done.
One more thing you need to take away from this: Stop taking CCs so seriously. Stop taking yourself so seriously. Ms. Santa the Barbarian followed that advice straight to victory.
Yeah, I suppose this is where we see that the analogy has broken down because the guy who won, had a better costume. Nobody handed him anything, he won it.
I am quoting this because it is true, if only there was an acronym for that.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Lets face it guys, OP won't stop until he/she gets the prize they should of won, which was probably a Purple Gang Tommy Gun that everyone and their brother already have.
Go to a CC to have fun and communicate with the community, not to go win and rub it in everyone's faces. End of story.
What's the point of being there. That's the point you're not getting. It's been said many times in this thread, and I'll repeat it again, and I'll probably have to repeat it again later. The point is to hang out and have fun; if you win, neat, if not, no big deal.
The other point is that since you put in none of the effort to acquire the prize money, or whatever the prize may be, that you have no say whatsoever in how it is distributed.
If you can't have fun without winning, then don't go. If you can have fun without winning, then what are you complaining about?
It's like you're reading one sentence and ignore everything else...
You know, one fo my hobby outside of gaming is cosplaying. If you think making a great costume in CO is hard work, imagine doing the same in real life. I spent nearly 2 months building a Sith armor and then went on to show off at a convention. Also participated in a contest while there. Do you really think, in your right mind, that I spent that much freakin' time with the only intent of winning that one miserable constest? F*** no! It was purely for fun. And being there at that contest was great just to see other incredible creations and meet other cosplayers. But with all that being said, I still expected the judges to be ETHICAL and FAIR in their decisions even if it's all in good fun in the end. It should be a given! But no, apparently in your book, it's perfectly alright to be unfair and play favorites under the guise that CCs aren't serious anyway and therefore can do whatever you want. Well I'm sorry, but clearly myself and others won't EVER agree with you on that.
If everyone colored exactly within the lines, painted exactly according to the numbers, in order to qualify as a viable contestant, then every entry would essentially be the same. This is not about hitting the random button, its about being unpredictable, creative, thinking outside of the box, standing out from the crowd, all while following the spirit of the category.
This is true, but I would just like add my grain of salt. I certainly have nothing against thinking outside of the box and coming up with wacky costumes, but in the end you still need to look remarkably good which is where things get a tad iffy sometimes. Because, think about it, if all it takes to win a contest is to come up with something twisted enough to get a chuckle out of the judges then why bother spending X amount of time making a phenomenal 'proper' (for a lack of a better word) costume? It would be like being a standup comedian and spending an ungoddly amount of hours writting extremely witty humour and, sure enough, getting a good laugh out of the audience, but then being followed by another comedian that's nothing but poop and fart jokes and getting the same reaction from the crowd. It would be slightly frustrating to say the least. The judges need to be able to discern what's really the best between the 2 and that's not always so.
You want to have wacky cotsume? Fine by me, but still make the point of looking absolutely great.
The first time I won a costume contest, the category was "best use of pink". I had one of the only male toons. Most of the female toons were sexy and pink, but there were also pink classic supers, pink sentais, and pink robots.
Anyway, I had a costume that was "classic tights" style using pink and white, on my hero, "Pride". I won because I used the color well, and because I stood out from the pack (according to the judges). They also liked that I made a male toon using pink that wasn't a joke.
I will go to that group's CCs again (and have), because I found it fun, and I find their judges to be fair and thoughtful.
I remember that CC! It was a lot of fun. :biggrin:
Lets face it guys, OP won't stop until he/she gets the prize they should of won, which was probably a Purple Gang Tommy Gun that everyone and their brother already have.
Go to a CC to have fun and communicate with the community, not to go win and rub it in everyone's faces. End of story.
Yeah, everyone is arguing in circles because everyone thinks they're right. Topic needs to be closed.
[...]
You want to have wacky cotsume? Fine by me, but still make the point of looking absolutely great.
Let's try this a different way.
How do you, 100% without a doubt, absoloute fact, identify when a judge is judging unethically, as opposed to when their personal tastes simply differ from yours?
I don't want opinions either, I want concrete evidence. You're making accusations here so I assume you have something factual and concrete to back them up.
Keep in mind that while someone may be friends with the judge, that it is also possible that their costume also happened to be the best in the Judge's mind and would have won even if they weren't friends, so simply stating "They're friends with the judge" is not enough to prove unethical judging.
Keep in mind that what you believe is proper, and what the next person believes is proper, and what the next person after that believes is proper are going to quite possibly be three entirely different things. So saying "The costume was not proper" is also not enough; you would have to point to a universal objective method for judging costumes that applies to everyone regardless of your or anyone else's opinion. Saying "it doesn't fit the category" must also itself be backed up with a universal objective method for judging whether or not a costume fits a category or not.
Personally? I think Ms. Santa The Barbarian looked absoloutely great.
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The casino analogy breaks down at the outset because you win at blackjack by either getting 21, or getting closer than anyone else without going bust. It's an objective standard, easily verified by anyone who can see the cards and knows their values.
Costume Contests, meanwhile, are judged by highly subjective criteria; one person's "best" is another person's "color-blind hobo", to steal a phrase from Gravitar. (Heck, I knew a guy in college who was almost proud of how ugly the costumes he doodled on the character sheet were; one brick, Clash, was actually granted an extra power, a Presence attack, by the GM of the game he first appeared in, simply because of the way his costume was colored. Every villain facing Clash had to roll CON vs. his Presence, or be at a -3 on OCV for 1d6 phases due to distraction from the costume.) I've entered a couple of CCs with costumes of which I was quite proud, only to see folks win whose costumes I thought were inferior to mine. However, the judges disagreed - and de gustibus non est disputandem, you know? All one can do is shrug, and try again another time.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
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No they're definitely wrong.
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I'm not seeing it. I don't agree with their assessment, but to say that the OP's statement is blatantly inaccurate is just silly. I've seen things I consider unfair- though usually, for me, unfair is when one of the SG's members hops on an alt and wins 2 or more categories, or something that most judged contests IRL would consider unethical and a conflict of interest.
CC judges can't judge wrong. It's factually impossible, because the judge's opinion is the only factor that matters, no matter what the reasoning behind that opinion is. You either accept it, or you're wrong.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I'm talking more about the ethics behind the choices than the actual choice- I'm fine if something is chosen that I think is garbage, I've already said that it's a matter of preference.
They've not said 'the judges are wrong', they've said the judges picked crappy ones (their opinion) and judges are unfair. While not for the same reasons, and the ones I've stated, I've seen some unfair judgements that were a conflict of interest.
Which would be valid if the player had any stake in who wins whatsoever. Has there ever been a CC where they charged an entry fee, or expected anything of the participants other than "Show up and stand there"? If you don't win, you leave with everything you came in with. So the judges picked a friend of theirs to win... what's so unethical about that? Favoratism is only wrong when someone loses out on something (important) because of it. Nobody is losing out on anything here, hence ethics doesn't apply.
On the other hand, a CC with an entry fee would definitely need a pretty strict rules structure so that the competitors know how to be competetive and can be sure that the resources they paid weren't just going into the promoter's pockets no matter what.
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Could this even work?
#1 Make a costume you like.
#2 Be your own worse critic.
#3 Don't try to anticipate the judges taste.
#4 You will loose far more often than you win.
#5 If you enter to make G's you are wrong. (I spend much more in the tailor than I have
won)
#6 If you are not having fun, whats the point?
This advice is rather general because of the subjective nature of a CC.
I respectfully disagree with everything here.
Also, time is invested. Subjective, of course, but my time is an investment.
Now, I only go to CCs run by groups I like and trust.
No problem.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Yes, you invested your time. Your important time. Time you will never get back.
You invested it into a video game... into standing in one spot for an hour in a video game... on the off chance you might win a few Resources useful only in that video game.
I think a judge who completely disregards the importance of the time that you invested into the costume contest is giving that time just as much regard as you did.
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This statement is wrong on so many level it's not even funny... CCs are only fun if you know you have equal chances as the next guy to win. As I have previsouly commented, losing to a great costume is okay; losing because winner is the judges best buddy isn't. Winning isn't everything in these event, sure, but the prospect of winning is still part of the fun. And we do invest a *considerable* amount of time creating costumes, so we DO lose something when the hosts and judges show favoristism. How you can condone such practice baffles me.
You go to costume contests to win. You're doing it wrong.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Of course, how could I have even hoped for something different than the classic de facto response of a person that has no real good argument... Keep digging yourself deeper into that hole.
My fav is -
Champions Costume Exchange
But there are also many others. Here are just a few I like -
Does Your Hero Wear a Cape?
Post Your Patriotic Heroes Here
Post your BEST costumes here!
A Character a Day
Slapperfish's Spectacular Selection of Superheroes
Just a few of the many threads that have - IMHO - many creative costume and heroes.
While I would likely never pick a demon or undead as a hero, because my preference moves more toward the traditional cape and/or tights wearing heroes, I can still appreciate the time and effort that goes into all of these creations. Also, if the words - Ooooh, shiny - come to mind I will likely enjoy that costume as well.
As always, in threads such as these, best is subjective, and there are no actual winners or losers. Instead we all get to look at many kinds of costumes and enjoy the ones that suit our tastes, and then, we can either skip past the ones we don't like, or consider if a variation of those might make for a good villain costume for our next Nemesis.
All of that said, I wonder if it has been considered that not everyone has the same level of computer hardware. What are the chances that at least some of the losers of CCs have no clue what their costume looks like on a different systems?
* Mostly, I go to CCs to browse other people's concepts (or to stand there while I'm AFK on a netbook). As a roleplayer and someone who enjoys the comic hero aesthetic, I prefer to go to contests where both the costume and descriptions are important, since they tend to attract players of similar minds to my own. And then I get ideas and want to make a similar character, only to feel ashamed about it and never do.
* The only time contests seem to explicitly award for "tights" is if Retro/Classic is specified (on its own or as part of another category). So, if you don't see those key words, anything is fair game even it looks like someone rolled the randomizer.
* People actually do have a small bearing on whether or not they get picked as a CC winner: by showing up. You can't win if you don't play.
* Wanting to touch on someone's comment about a particular CC. In hindsight, there were probably some mistakes made, but it should be absolutely clear that the "group" running it wasn't any specific SG, but a community that wanted to do something special for itself first and foremost. Putting a face to the public caused some consequences (there was a thread exactly like this, remember?) and soured the opinion of running something in that particular way again.
* This doesn't actually bother me, but I'll admit that there've been times where I've thought on the offhand that main contest-running SGs particpate in each other's CCs to shuffle Resources around. /conspiracytheory
With that said, many of the winners in this case actually have great costumes and concepts.
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While the winner is hilarious, I think the category should have and should be more clear. I seen many costume contests say the yare looking for the Best Power Armor outfit, then pick the wackiest looking creature on the planet. I mean if it's supposed to be the judging of the wackiest looking costume, then that should be clear Best Wackiest Looking Power Armor contest. But when it's titles as best but the winner is something that definitely would probably be an eye sore in a movie/comic book, although funny as hell as they may be, then of course questions will rise on the judging ability of best costume.
Then of course I would be lying if I said there isn't no bias in a lot of costume contest. Sometimes a SG may have the best costume, but that is like saying I'm hiring for this multimillion dollar contract and even though there is many highly qualified people, I hire my nephew. Now on the surface it would look weird as all get out and might even bring some lawsuits. But maybe they are truly the most qualified. Then again, maybe it's pure favoritism and since I have the money and offering I can choose who ever I want. But does that make it right, just because I can choose who ever I want since I have the money? Maybe, depending on view. Probably not to the people that losing out.
Yeah people can do their own CC and this and that, but just because problems are ignored doesn't make them go away. I just hope people take the most important thing away and try to judge fairly and be clear on the categories of what they are looking for. Are they looking for Christmas themed costumes or wacky comedy Christmas themed costumes? Like that contract thing, I say I'm looking for hard working builders, and instead choose someone who built a meter high tower with legos and called it the best builder. In my eyes, he might be the best builder. Outside looking in, people probably will question. It's natural. But some say it's my money my contract they came to me so if I say that my lego building nephew is the winner of the millons and the best, then that is the end of it. He's the best because I said so. Theycan go make their own contracts
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Agreed.
I don't expect to win a particular game of poker at the casino, and am not going to whine when the guy next to me outplays me.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I agree also. This ties to what I said already. You go to the casino for fun first and foremost. Losing is no big deal but winning is bonus fun. However, if the dealer purposely hands out all the aces to the guy sitting next to you, whether you are there for fun or to make some serious money, you'll get pissed pretty quickly. Fun can only be had with the notion of fair play in mind. This is true for virtually everything ever.
I still don`t understand your point of view, sockmunkey! When you first posted you said that, besides my had, what I`m wearing is only tights, so it kinda looks like a hero costume to you rather than a Mrs Santa? And now you say what...? That I`m relying on costume parts to make my own costume? And that is supposed to be wrong? Sry hun but you`re the one who missed the whole ideea!
I said there`s no Mrs. Santa & Mr. Santa costume parts in game only to point out that, if they would exist, I would probably use some parts for making my Mrs. Santa Costume look better than it does now (not that now it looks worse, but maybe with those parts it could be better).
What you are doing here is only to contradict yourself!
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Though this seems just like someone crying because they didn't win a contest.
Yea, you are right here! Everybody there got some Gs and I wasn`t ungratefull to the judge who did such a nice thing to all! I thanked many times for the kind gesture! And yes that was a nice done CC with a great atmosphere! I didn`t regret that I participate at the CC, my only regret is that I didn`t win at my cat! And please, don`t make me a sole loser again because I`m not!
Just admit it, you (I`m not making any reference to anybody when I say you, so don`t take it as personal thing) aren`t the happiest person in the world when you lose a CC! That simply doesn`t make you a sore loser! And I have the right to express my opinion about what disturbs me!
And to answer to everybody, this isn`t a thread about how "sore loser I am that I didn`t win that CC" and is not exclusively all-about-me, if you (when I say you, I mean any of you) think that, you are getting all wrong! This is meant to be a general discussion about CCs and how judges really judge these CCs! I gaved my example only because it was the only one I had to offer! I couldn`t get any better example!
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CALIGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! LOVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! HEHEHEHEHE
Ok now being serious! Who saw my costumes in game and how know me really good knows that I don`t make sucky costumes!
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Like I said in game I said here too! You had a really awsome Costume and I had a feling you would win! I`m really glad that you win that cat!
I`m not agree with the #5! I don`t enter to a CC to make Gs! I know my methods (maybe they are long and tendious) to make Gs in game.
#3 in some cases I do which is wrong, yea!
But I`m totally agree with the #1, #2, #4 and #6!
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With all due respect Luna, this post is in conflict with your original post.
You titled this topic "The only truth you need to know about CCs". Don't you think that's a bit unfair? This tells people that all CCs are the same--and we all know that ain't true. Everyone has different tastes. Did it ever occur to you to ask the host what they were looking for, for that particular category? Many hosts, myself included, use a broader theme because we want to see clever interpretations. If you didn't bother to be inquisitive, don't you think it might be a bit unfair and insensitive to the host for you to plaster their choices in public if you didn't care to verify what was and wasn't acceptable for said category?
On that note, you posted a topic about how this CC has made you quit going to all CCs. Putting aside the fact that prizes were handed out to everyone, you still felt in necessary to berate their organized event publicly (and let's be honest, we all know which event it was) simply because you didn't get what you wanted? And then you post how you don't want to be seen as a sore loser, just that you regret not winning?
If this seems right to you, then there's really nothing anyone on here is going to say that will make a lick of difference.
Flare's guide to hosting and judging costume contests!
(link under construction)
Contest implies competition, otherwise this would be called something else. I'm not in it 'to win', but it's great if I do.
I wouldn't enter my bike or car into a car show 'to win', but I do expect to be judged fairly and not see the judges hand it off to some bimbo with a stock bike and a hello kitty sticker on the gas tank just because she's married to one of them.
I'm not whining here about winning or losing. However, you're just looking to argue and squabble. You've resorted to simply devaluing the very thing you're arguing about now, and it's kind of sad.
I admit, I really like how mature and objective you treat this subject and all the subjects on this forum where you are writing!
I liked one ideea that you pint-point in this reply! The categories of a CC should be more clear and judges should have some sorf of criteria when they judge a cat! Only then they could correctly pick the winner of a CC! This is all I wanted to say on this thread!
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I've been to a few. It was a trainwreck.
The logic behind this one is that if you've never hosted a contest, you won't know how hard it is to pick winners. And if you've never had some troll whine about who you picked, you won't know what it feels like to wish you could reach through the internet and choke someone.
Most of the time, and I say *most*, they do stay true to their vision of the categories. If that doesn't mesh with yours, that's not really their fault. When it comes to stuff like the op, where an oddball concept wins for a category? The judges look for what strikes them as the best embodiment of that concept. Sometimes funny works. @metallical has a muppet he runs around with that wins all sorts of contests. Why? Because sometimes a muppet in power armor is funny.
1: It's presumptuous to call anything "the worst of the worst" when you're dealing with subjective players. I know you in game, so I know you're not the sort that does this, but consider the fact that there's a *person* on the other end of that costume someone calls awful. A person with feelings.
2: Yeah, certain players tend to place a lot. Maybe it's a general ability they have, and not a matter of judges playing favorites? Hell, I still place in ccs held by super groups that I didn't leave on very good terms. A good costume is still a good costume.
To that specific group's events. Just tack that on the end and it becomes a lot more healthy. I've walked out of costume contests before when something was going on that I disagreed with. I have a few groups that have tastes that are wildly different from my own, so I just avoid their stuff. It's not to say their taste is *bad*, but I disagree with it, and therefore don't waste my time.
I think you'd find the cc scene to be a pretty boring place if everyone had a set list of criteria by which they judged every category. "retro needs to be lean tights with little accouterments, and a 4 color pallet" would make for a pretty boring playing field. And that one creative golden age rocketeer concept would feel pretty discriminated against if he didn't win. See where I'm going with this?
Varies. Judges that are nervous taking however long they damn well like to look over costumes are doing it wrong, and some of us can give a costume a second and a half of a once over and see every individual piece being used, and the gestalt of the costume. I think the best example of oddball judging that works wonders is bluhman. That crazy bastard does zig zags through the field with no discernible pattern, and *always* picks the best of the best.
Whoa, hold the boat here. 2 issues I have with this.
1: Why would I farm gs and get everyone to stand around for a half hour, just so I can give my friend 20g?
2: It's actually incredibly insulting to insinuate this is the case. Again, I know you don't mean it personally, but consider what you're proposing. The cc favortism issue is basically a vast conspiracy theory where there's some underground network of cc judges who're all having a big circle jerk in public, waxing each other's e-peen by making others think we have the best costume. I don't even know how to approach how wrong that is.
Nope. If a judge feels the wacky is the best, the wacky is the best. It's subjective, but you're picking what stands out to you as the best example of a certain theme. There are no set rules to a costume contest, and I already covered how having such concrete restrictions can be absolutely awful to the player that's thinking outside the box. If it fits inside the category, but is wacky, it still fits inside the category and therefore is capable of winning. A pink g string isn't military. But an evil rabbit in fatigues would be. See?
Can always use more guides. But flare put together a really good guide to judging ccs. A good costume guide could be a ton of work, but I'd like to see it.
Point, dude. I'm in, or have been in, hundreds of super groups. I've been in every cc holding super group there is, barring maybe 2 that just don't fit my concept. But, my current allegiance is spear, and they're who I identify with most strongly as a member of. SGs don't matter in the slightest, since they're just a tag over your head and there's NO content hard enough or worthwhile enough to have SG raids. So, wtf does it matter if an alt wins? Spear has a hard rule that nobody *on an SG character* can enter our ccs. But if you're on an alt in a different sg? That toon isn't affiliated with us, and will be judged as fairly as we judge everyone else. That's not favortism, that's unbiased judging.
See above for my opinion on this. It's a pretty harsh conspiracy theory that imo is at best untrue, and at worst insulting.
I'd love to see you do this. I respect you, and we've had some great exchanges in the past, but know that if you did it to me I'd tear you in half. "oh, you mean the same @mrdudeguy who's also in conquer, red academy, ids, bos, and sodlag? Gee, who's left for him to compete at if he avoids every cc for every super group he's got an alt in?" Because really dude, you usually make a fair bit of sense and some great points. This logic just doesn't hold up.
Hey OP, can you give me your @ handle so I can shoot you an ignore in game? A whine thread on the forum about losing a CC is a new low, and I'd hate to think I'd actually be nice to you in game at any point. Your outfit is awful, and didn't even merit a second glance.
Actually, I'm lying. Your outfit was just fine. But that half a second "WTF?" you just felt? You are doing that to the person who actually won, with this thread and your complaints. There's a person on the other side of that costume, who spent time trying to come up with an eye-bleaching and well thought out concept. A person with feelings, who may be actually pretty upset about people knocking their hard work. And you're insulting them directly, like it's no thing, saying they didn't deserve to win. It's disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself.
RIP Caine
"you posted a topic about how this CC has made you quit going to all CCs." yes that was a pesonal statement! I hope you don`t have anything against about my personal statements in a thread! The title of this thread IS NOT "How CCs made me quit!" is about the truth of CCs (at least some of them)
"This tells people that all CCs are the same--and we all know that ain't true."
Only SOME CCs ARE THAT WAY, NOT ALL OF THEM ARE THE WAY I DESCRIBED THEM IN THIS THREAD! I`m not sarcastic, it is true! Hope, I now, set things right, here!
"Did it ever occur to you to ask the host what they were looking for, for that particular category?"
To be honest nope! That cat was a general one! It cleary didn`t say: "The WTFs/Wackiest Mr and Mrs Santa Costume" it only said "Mrs and Mr Santa"! And again, to be honest, it was a punch in the face for me when I saw that the judge picked that costume!
Generally speaking, in most cases I don`t ask the judges what they are looking for only because most of them don`t really say what they are looking for (they say that they (at least some of them) don`t want to favorize me or any other participants) and second in most cases the cat speaks for themselfs!
"and let's be honest, we all know which event it was" and what is the point of your saying? to know what event it was? the name of the event? the name of the participants? the name of the JUDGE? it is really that, the whole point of this thread?
"you still felt in necessary to berate their organized event publicly simply because you didn't get what you wanted?"
I didn`t berate any organised (CC) publicly and If I did that please post that dam reply so everyone can see it and so I can make Mea Culpa for my mistake! Yes, I didn`t get what I wanted and I don`t think everybody here, gets what they want in their life, don`t we? And it doesn`t matter that! That`s (again) not the point of this thread!
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Ok, I`m sry for insulting that guy, who really did an awsome job doing a MRS Santa! Mea Culpa ok? It was the only example I would bring up. If I didn`t bring any example to this thread ppl would probably say: "And you really have any evidence that really happened? Any example?"
If you guys, think that I should remove the pictures I will do that! And maybe I will if is that the right thing to do! That way I won`t insult anybody!
Just a personal question: How would you treat me in game, if you could find me, after all I said in this thread?
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It can be harsh and insulting. I'm fine with that, actually. Is it untrue? Well, if I've seen it happen once, it's true. So, it's happened.
Has it happened ALL THE TIME? No. Has it even happened a lot? Not really.
Like I said, the usual response is for me to just not participate if I think it's 'rigged'. The only time we get worse is if it's becoming ridiculous.
It does.
If it happens once, and the guy's got an alt in your SG, I'm cool with that. if he's winning your contests two or three times a month, I'm going to question it. Openly.
I know what you're saying, but it's still too often thrown around as a pretty dismissive rebuttal to anyone who might have something to say. I've hosted CCs and judged costumes (not all that many, granted, but still), I know it's not always easy, yet I can still have problems with other people's method of conducting a contest or how they judge.
1- I only said 'worst of the worst' as an extreme example of not the best costume winning, to make the gap blatlantly obvious. I would never dare call someone the worst, and I certainly wasn't aiming that comment to anyone in particular.
2- Some do have skills and I have no problem with them winning, but others I just don't see it. There's also the fact that many continously show up with the same character wearing nearly always the same costume. Personally I always make the effort to diversify my entries across all my characters and I even 'retire' some costumes once they've won a few times.
No that's not the sort of criteria I meant, I'm talking about general estheticism. That's more like good body proportions, good color combinations, good and proper use of textures and so on. If you look at a comic book (or any other media really), these are the things you expect to find in quality art work (and that's why Rob Liefeld will always be terrible terrible artist in my book). These really aren't meant be restrictive, they're simply indicators of good taste.
By going too fast you might miss details that might have tipped the balance, especially if you have more than a few costumes that are pretty even match. Sure, I can get the general feel of a costume with a quick glance too but I always make the point to look further. If you went to a real cosplay contest (and I have btw) you would want the judges to pay close attention to your costume and not just give you a measly 2 second look.
Well this is a case of whether you can really believe all the people out there are 100% honest and trustworthy - something which might be true if you live under a rock - or that reality is that someone people do in fact cheat and lie and that it's therefore not so wrong to presume that some form favoritism or another is likely taking place during these events. I'm not seeing all the time, but occasionally.
Well that's something we'll have to agree to disagree on somewhat. I've already addressed the restrictions issue as being, well, a non-issue. A rabbit in fatigues can fit in 'Military' just fine seeing as the focus is still given to the military aspect. I can just think of Ratassassin who always maintains his character's concept first and foremost and integrates the category around it. That works. I'm really speaking of far wackier stuff which I really feel should belong in a 'WTF' or 'Funny' category or, like I said, as an honorable mention.
I would give you a pat on the back for having the guts to say what pretty much everyone has thought to themselves or said to their buddies after looking at the winners of a costume contest at one point or another, then a light smack upside the head for going about it the wrong way.
In general, making a stink about things in public is rarely a good choice unless you want to hurt the person/SG/etc in question because it can damage their reputation. Often it makes the accuser look petty as well.
Confronting in private is almost always the better choice. Even if you're upset, remember that name@name you're talking to is another person. Asking the judges, in a respectful manner and in private messages, what you might have done differently to help your chances at winning is an example of a good way.
As has been mentioned earlier, if after confronting the person/SG/whatever they're still consistently making choices you don't agree with or find questionable don't go to their CCs.
Honestly... your costume screams generic, plain, and "didn't try very hard". If you really care about winning CCs, there comes a time when you need to be able to admit to yourself that you didn't really put enough creativity into your costume to win. It's not about strictly adhering to the name of the category, it's about doing something in that category that stands out. The costume you had was a starting point, the type of thing a thousand other people would have whipped together in a minute to fit that catagory.
You also have to pay for chips at the casino. You don't pay for anything at a costume contest. In fact, the only people paying for anything are the people handing out the prizes... you know, the people you're criticizing?
If you sit down at a poker table where the dealer is paying out all the money OUT OF HIS OWN POCKET, and you want to complain about how he deals the cards, I can guarantee that you're not going to win, and you'll look like an ungrateful whiny brat in the process who won't be asked to come back to the table to play again.
This entire thread was started because someone wanted to argue and squabble. I'm not surprised at the responses I've gotten. I am after all basically saying "Be mature about it", to people who have demonstrated an inability to be mature about something as serious and important as a Costume Contest.
Watching people go time and time again to events that they already know have a good chance to not be judged in the way they think they ought to be, and be disappointed over and over when it turns out to be true, never learning from their experience, never gaining the ability to take it for what it is rather than what it, in their opinion, should be... and the whole time never realizing all the actual effort the people they're criticizing put into giving them a simple good time...
That's what's sad.
Go host and judge a costume contest. Do it "the right way" where no one disagrees with your decision. Then write a guide for how you managed to do that.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Still not getting the point I see...
Even if the dealer is giving out money out of is own pocket and the goodness of his heart, what's the point of being there if he's only rewarding the same person over and over and over again. What exactly is the fun in being there playing at that table when you know full well you don't even have the slightest chance to begin with. Again... UNFAIRNESS IS NOT FUN. Maybe if I repeat it enough time you'll get it but I doubt it.
With the current reports of the North Pole melting, did anyone dress as Santa in a wetsuit?
Or a swim suit holding a coconut beverage with a bendy straw and a little umbrella and a surfboard in the other. Santa likes to spend 364 days on the beach at the North Pole :biggrin:
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Yeah, I suppose this is where we see that the analogy has broken down because the guy who won, had a better costume. Nobody handed him anything, he won it.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Well... I`m really sry If I didn`used Random button to make a (awsome, wonderfull, beautifull, bla,bla,blablabla)costume like that! And again I`m sry that it looks too good to win that cat!
"...there comes a time when you need to be able to admit to yourself that you didn't really put enough creativity into your costume to win."
I`m sry that I make my costume with what costume parts I had! I`m really sry for that! HOW DARE I TO MAKE SUCH A SEXY/BEAUTIFULL COSTUME INSTEAD OF WTF ONE?!
"there comes a time when you need to be able to admit to yourself that you didn't really put enough creativity into your costume to win."
Is that so? If you`re right, why I was the only girl with that costume at that CC? Can you tell me why? And why it wasn`t too many ppl that choosed "Mrs Santa" cat? Why nobody created a costume like mine at that CC?
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No offense, but maybe they knew better. Perhaps they were trying to win. There was nothing wrong with your costume, but, "there is nothing wrong with it," is not a ringing endorsement for winning any form of style or fashion competition.
If everyone colored exactly within the lines, painted exactly according to the numbers, in order to qualify as a viable contestant, then every entry would essentially be the same. This is not about hitting the random button, its about being unpredictable, creative, thinking outside of the box, standing out from the crowd, all while following the spirit of the category.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Anyway, I had a costume that was "classic tights" style using pink and white, on my hero, "Pride". I won because I used the color well, and because I stood out from the pack (according to the judges). They also liked that I made a male toon using pink that wasn't a joke.
I will go to that group's CCs again (and have), because I found it fun, and I find their judges to be fair and thoughtful.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
What's the point of being there. That's the point you're not getting. It's been said many times in this thread, and I'll repeat it again, and I'll probably have to repeat it again later. The point is to hang out and have fun; if you win, neat, if not, no big deal.
The other point is that since you put in none of the effort to acquire the prize money, or whatever the prize may be, that you have no say whatsoever in how it is distributed.
If you can't have fun without winning, then don't go. If you can have fun without winning, then what are you complaining about?
Wow, what a mature response without any sort of childish outbursts.
You keep talking about the random button... did it ever occur to you that the guy who won didn't use the random button? Go push the random button a few times, see what comes up, it'll be enlightening.
You say you made your costume with what costume parts you had... those are all the costume parts you had? Wow, I've never payed a dime for this game and I have about a thousand more parts than you do, strange! Also, I think you're overestimating your costume when you call it "sexy/beautiful". You're also misunderstanding what wins CCs... it's not a swimsuit pageant.
Yes, you were the only one with that specific combination of costume parts. If there had been others with that exact costume, that sure would have been a coincidence, considering how many costume pieces are available. It's entirely possble that a lot of other people also "threw on a bunch of red clothing and a christmas hat" just like you though... in fact, if I look at that picture you gave, I see three people behind you who basically had the same idea as you.
At some point, you have to admit that even if you spent hours in the tailor making that costume, that at the end it really does look like you just "threw on a bunch of red clothing and christmas hat" and clicked done.
One more thing you need to take away from this: Stop taking CCs so seriously. Stop taking yourself so seriously. Ms. Santa the Barbarian followed that advice straight to victory.
I am quoting this because it is true, if only there was an acronym for that.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Go to a CC to have fun and communicate with the community, not to go win and rub it in everyone's faces. End of story.
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It's like you're reading one sentence and ignore everything else...
You know, one fo my hobby outside of gaming is cosplaying. If you think making a great costume in CO is hard work, imagine doing the same in real life. I spent nearly 2 months building a Sith armor and then went on to show off at a convention. Also participated in a contest while there. Do you really think, in your right mind, that I spent that much freakin' time with the only intent of winning that one miserable constest? F*** no! It was purely for fun. And being there at that contest was great just to see other incredible creations and meet other cosplayers. But with all that being said, I still expected the judges to be ETHICAL and FAIR in their decisions even if it's all in good fun in the end. It should be a given! But no, apparently in your book, it's perfectly alright to be unfair and play favorites under the guise that CCs aren't serious anyway and therefore can do whatever you want. Well I'm sorry, but clearly myself and others won't EVER agree with you on that.
This is true, but I would just like add my grain of salt. I certainly have nothing against thinking outside of the box and coming up with wacky costumes, but in the end you still need to look remarkably good which is where things get a tad iffy sometimes. Because, think about it, if all it takes to win a contest is to come up with something twisted enough to get a chuckle out of the judges then why bother spending X amount of time making a phenomenal 'proper' (for a lack of a better word) costume? It would be like being a standup comedian and spending an ungoddly amount of hours writting extremely witty humour and, sure enough, getting a good laugh out of the audience, but then being followed by another comedian that's nothing but poop and fart jokes and getting the same reaction from the crowd. It would be slightly frustrating to say the least. The judges need to be able to discern what's really the best between the 2 and that's not always so.
You want to have wacky cotsume? Fine by me, but still make the point of looking absolutely great.
An actual mission where you see cool characters is WAY more interesting to me than milling around for a few hours for a costume contest.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I remember that CC! It was a lot of fun. :biggrin:
Yeah, everyone is arguing in circles because everyone thinks they're right. Topic needs to be closed.
Flare's guide to hosting and judging costume contests!
(link under construction)
Let's try this a different way.
How do you, 100% without a doubt, absoloute fact, identify when a judge is judging unethically, as opposed to when their personal tastes simply differ from yours?
I don't want opinions either, I want concrete evidence. You're making accusations here so I assume you have something factual and concrete to back them up.
Keep in mind that while someone may be friends with the judge, that it is also possible that their costume also happened to be the best in the Judge's mind and would have won even if they weren't friends, so simply stating "They're friends with the judge" is not enough to prove unethical judging.
Keep in mind that what you believe is proper, and what the next person believes is proper, and what the next person after that believes is proper are going to quite possibly be three entirely different things. So saying "The costume was not proper" is also not enough; you would have to point to a universal objective method for judging costumes that applies to everyone regardless of your or anyone else's opinion. Saying "it doesn't fit the category" must also itself be backed up with a universal objective method for judging whether or not a costume fits a category or not.
Personally? I think Ms. Santa The Barbarian looked absoloutely great.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Costume Contests, meanwhile, are judged by highly subjective criteria; one person's "best" is another person's "color-blind hobo", to steal a phrase from Gravitar. (Heck, I knew a guy in college who was almost proud of how ugly the costumes he doodled on the character sheet were; one brick, Clash, was actually granted an extra power, a Presence attack, by the GM of the game he first appeared in, simply because of the way his costume was colored. Every villain facing Clash had to roll CON vs. his Presence, or be at a -3 on OCV for 1d6 phases due to distraction from the costume.) I've entered a couple of CCs with costumes of which I was quite proud, only to see folks win whose costumes I thought were inferior to mine. However, the judges disagreed - and de gustibus non est disputandem, you know? All one can do is shrug, and try again another time.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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