To be honest I can't take anyone seriously that tries to argue that using a lunge invalidism a melee build when that's the entire purpose of the mobility category in general. Purin is actually making it harder on himself by choosing to play single blade. He could easily drop the two bleed applying chain powers and reaper's embrace/caress and replace them with the far more streamlined DU+DW+ why the hell not UR "combo".
I already mentioned that the reason I started playing again is because I wanted to play as the character I'm currently using, which is a Single Blade build. I then shortly wanted to get back into PvP, but I wanted to stick with Single Blade. I only use the current build that I do right now instead of the one you mentioned because it does not hold to the small theme I still stick to. Heck, I can name 5 things off the top of my head that'd improve my build while keeping it as Single Blade.
I also already stated that I'm not here to be the best PvPer around, only to prove I can still do well with my current build.
Forz, people have tried Single Blade after they saw me using it and even copied my build. None of them can cut it - I've seen maybe 1 person besides you and me that was able to do anything at all with it.
What do you mean copy your build? You gave friends the build to use, or you are seeing people use lariat and reapers? I hope you're not claiming to be the first to come up with the lariat -> reaper combo?
Looking back at this thread, one can see how easily people say it's impossible and when proven wrong, they just won't accept it.
Useless and probably unaware of a whole powerset is what a so called PvP pr0 was. Yet he was ready to say "it doesn't work" just 'coz he was awful with a 2009 build.
Stop acting guys, most of you really are clueless .
Level 9 pr0h know it alls. By your definition of melee there isn't a single pure melee AT.
Grats Neiuso, keep it up.
What do you mean copy your build? You gave friends the build to use, or you are seeing people use lariat and reapers? I hope you're not claiming to be the first to come up with the lariat -> reaper combo?
I'm not claiming to be the one who came up with the combo. Everything has already been done. Both my friends and people I've met have taken the combo because they saw me using it, and admitted it - that's all.
What do you mean copy your build? You gave friends the build to use, or you are seeing people use lariat and reapers? I hope you're not claiming to be the first to come up with the lariat -> reaper combo?
Nah, he's definitely not the first, he know it, doesn't claim to own it, and isn't afraid to say it, people try everything, they eventually got there too. Even I who uses that build for now two years took the scheme from someone who informed me about bleed stacking, these builds are insanely old, dating from the Tearmonger era.
___
Anyways, if we have to think about something purely melee. Well. Think of a WotW based Bestial build, apply the same defensive scheme, pick a lunge, TBL if possible and rely on Bite + Massacre for your combos.
Will it work? Against melee opponents, yes. Bite is a great source of control aswell as damage, Massacre is an excellent damage dealing tool with a rather annoying knockdown, damage increasing when immune to it, it can potentially stand toe to toe with the AoPM DU-UR-Strafing Run caliber builds and get him to flee.
However the problem is the following: Defense stacking and healing bonuses have reached a level where if you don't have a combo dealing massive amounts of damage to put inside the 10s weakness window your frankenbuilt ennemy has, you can be sure that he'll survive you for an unlimited amount of time. Pure melee can stand but you need to have the means to 100>0 your opponents, which often means Single Blade, maybe Might to some extent (I'm sure that a WotW based one with massive cost discount can deal tremendous amounts of damage), and anything related to Unleashed Rage.
It's rarely possible to stalk and continuously damage your target down to 0 health like we used to do (Hank/Smash/Xeno builds and other double lunging wonders) when heals weren't that powerful.
Heals have little to do with it. Though you do at least have trauma for those. To be fair it's only a 25% real reduction. Defense stacking is well, there are many ways to bypass or reduce All damage resistance so that's not much of an issue. The main one is dodge and the flat mitigation avoidance provides. A dodge reduces damage by significant amount and the best part is other than waiting for MD to go down you have zero control over it as an attacker. This is even more frustrating as melee when your ability to put out sustained DPS/Burst is limited enough as it is.
There is one advantage that reduces dodge, the despondency advantage on the shadow bolts energy builder. It has got to be one of the worst advantages in the game. It is quite unfortunate. I dislike how it basically comes down to hoping your target doesn't dodge your big hits. A non-dodge spike does far more than a simple heal debuff ever could.
Also to be fair as long as there is stealth you will never kill a reasonably aware player if he doesn't want to die. Well not unless you've got stealth sight anyway. Say I choose to forgo SS and begin my awesome combo of finger snap force geyser plus puke many ebon ruins. All my target has to do is hit evasive with advantage and use the 2 seconds of stealth to completely disengage from the fight though yes most prefer to use it to turn the tide, but the former option is still there.
Say I used nailed too early .... and he's flying away with Ascension the fastest in combat flight in the game. Lovely. It's even worse for a melee that refuses to abuse omicron's legacy travel remover debuff. They lunge, target hits evasive and by the time they're able to target them again nailed has worn off and they're back to jumping around with acrobatics mocking them.
In a one on one scenario you can simply counter nimble mind's critical chain combo with masterful dodge. Just seeing nimble mind screams here I go, I'm about to use my strongest attacks please don't put up your best defense that I have no way of bypassing to counter it! Though yes that little tactic is only really beneficial when the odds aren't stacked against you. The point is, even if you do have stealth sight, bringing down certain builds is next to impossible alone regardless of whether you're melee or ranged. Being the latter doesn't really make it any easier. It still falls short.
Could somebody tell me a little more about this, been playing since 2010 and I hadn't noticed.
_____________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
Could somebody tell me a little more about this, been playing since 2010 and I hadn't noticed.
On Alert, Seraphim debuffed like hell, healing bonuses spreaded everywhere, mostly on roles, the rest on specs. Scaling on presence boosted, support role healing more, Hybrid role is now a must since it got the 20% healing bonus with it, and with AoPM on top of it, you get nearly twice the healing of a Brawler or an Avenger, much more if AoPM with support role without any investment in PRE.
Pure Melee: Using only melee-range attacks, which includes lunges.
Why are lunges melee? Because they're not ranged attacks. They don't do damage at range, they do damage/have effect when they bring you into melee range. Ranged attacks are those ones you can use to blast the bajeezus out of a melee character and they can't attack you back.
Is Unleashed Rage a melee attack? I think "close enough" due to the almost-melee range, and the way the power itself works in regards to where it's used. Really, any point-blank aoe counts as "close enough", since you can't really kite someone with them, and if there was someone who used no melee attacks, but only PBAoE, you'd be hard pressed to call them an effective ranged character. Of course, Unleashed Rage is nestled firmly into the "those powers" catagory.
Once you start dipping into 50+ range powers, especially if you find that you're using them more often than your melee attacks, you've left pure melee territory.
Now, if the question was "is melee still viable?"...well sure, you can use melee attacks alongside your ranged attacks if you want. There's really no reason to though, you're just deciding that you want to have to run up to people to attack them sometimes rather than blasting them with powerful attacks at 50-100 range.
Basically, pvp has a difficulty slider. You raise the difficulty setting by making more of your attacks melee attacks, and by making your character squishy. The only people playing on Elite are the ones using pure melee glass cannons. Most people have their pvp set for easy though, with their long range healtanks. However, there are no extra rewards for playing at a higher difficulty, neither concrete nor spiritual.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Thanx for that mrf0rz1 - I did know this but hadn't really noticed if you see what I mean.
_____________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
FYI I play a UR build that has only 5k hp. Supah hard mode? My build before I went on holiday was probably more of a hybrid though, when I get back I plan to try it with full melee.
FYI I play a UR build that has only 5k hp. Supah hard mode? My build before I went on holiday was probably more of a hybrid though, when I get back I plan to try it with full melee.
Don't know if I consider UR pure melee or not. Granted it is in the might tree but its damage isnt pure melee.
Funny how most "melee is viable" arguments end with some delivery plan for Unleashed Rage or Sword Cyclone in some cases. I have various powers, but it almost always leads to leaning on UR or overlapping it on a haymaker charge.
Meanwhile, you can just pick up a tier 2 power in munitions and be highly competitive, and even a better melee build(close the gap) than other melee damage sources.
Haha, if the laser sword powers come into live as they are in PTS, we'll have top mellee builds doing 40k crits with defiance and presence primary!
Ego sleep-> bam!
Worse than ss!
Haha, if the laser sword powers come into live as they are in PTS, we'll have top mellee builds doing 40k crits with defiance and presence primary!
Ego sleep-> bam!
Worse than ss!
And it will take about 2 months of people crying like babies to get it nerfed .
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
And it will take about 2 months of people crying like babies to get it nerfed .
Other than we all know it won't be kept so Op. They'll nerf it to the point that it heals the enemy then run ou of time and release it anyway. Infact has any newly released power really ever been that OP other than the first ones Eg celestial. Don't get your hopes up, these powers will just be added to the 'not worth getting' list if history is anything to go by.
Other than we all know it won't be kept so Op. They'll nerf it to the point that it heals the enemy then run ou of time and release it anyway. Infact has any newly released power really ever been that OP other than the first ones Eg celestial. Don't get your hopes up, these powers will just be added to the 'not worth getting' list if history is anything to go by.
Owmmmm shadow strike? Strafing Run?
The new DoTs can't be dodged btw! They could be useful...
Owmmmm shadow strike? Strafing Run?
The new DoTs can't be dodged btw! They could be useful...
Derp. -_- I wasn't around when they were released, I suppose they probably were released in a pretty OP state. It would be nice to have some powers that builds can actually work around released though. If they keep nerfing damage skills and not buffing powers or releasing powers that have any use then we'll see 99 heal tanks but fun won't be one.
Also DOT builds don't really work that well, AE used one for tagging and getting the odd kill through their dodge but it is way too easy to counter. Unless the DOT can hit for 500-1000 a second there wont be much hope for a build to be built on it. We'll see the burst damage reduced before release though most certainly.
I like how you describe yourself as a "pro frankenbuild" & "pro pvp range build" yet die taking 6k damage.
Why the disguised voice?
What was that video actually showing? Played with out sound but to me it just looked like some noob with no gear and no powers went into bash and instead of flying above everyone just stood there wondering who the hell keeps on killing him.
Was he talking?
Omg I can't breath!!!! Edit
Is this guy serrious? The funniest thing is that it's lucidity who keeps killing him. Basically they don't have that many offense skills, all the best PvP builds work around one offensive power and if this isn't two gun mojo then usually one device (5 of the same one works)
The funniest thing is that it's lucidity who keeps killing him.
There you have it. It's comedy. It's trolling. It's lucidity with a friend making an **** of themselves trying to prove a lie that lucidity insists is truth.
So. You walk, TP-less into a group of people that gangbang you senseless with all kinds of powers without you pressing a button and the conclusion you pulled out is that 'melee is viable'? Please tell me that is a joke, because it sure is fun as hell. You build like if you just got out of a leveling session through Smash Alerts and you do absolutely nothing to respond to any aggression, you were only required to press Masterful Dodge then load your travel power and get out of here.
It's like if you said you absolutely don't cheat at all on some FPS and sent THIS as a proof.
The question is... Did Luci pay you in order to stand still and exposed or you REALLY have the gameplay level of a dead oyster?
Otherwise, that was a nice troll, I give it a firm 7/10, if not, then you are a failure of a life form and absolutely nothing more, besides I hope it was a troll attempt.
This may be that apparent 'friend in real life' that I've been told the player of luci has. If not then the commentary may just be lucidity, and that aint no disguised voice. sexy
this May Be That Apparent 'friend In Real Life' That I've Been Told The Player Of Luci Has. If Not Then The Commentary May Just Be Lucidity, And That Aint No Disguised Voice. Sexy
Comments
I already mentioned that the reason I started playing again is because I wanted to play as the character I'm currently using, which is a Single Blade build. I then shortly wanted to get back into PvP, but I wanted to stick with Single Blade. I only use the current build that I do right now instead of the one you mentioned because it does not hold to the small theme I still stick to. Heck, I can name 5 things off the top of my head that'd improve my build while keeping it as Single Blade.
I also already stated that I'm not here to be the best PvPer around, only to prove I can still do well with my current build.
What do you mean copy your build? You gave friends the build to use, or you are seeing people use lariat and reapers? I hope you're not claiming to be the first to come up with the lariat -> reaper combo?
Useless and probably unaware of a whole powerset is what a so called PvP pr0 was. Yet he was ready to say "it doesn't work" just 'coz he was awful with a 2009 build.
Stop acting guys, most of you really are clueless .
Level 9 pr0h know it alls. By your definition of melee there isn't a single pure melee AT.
Grats Neiuso, keep it up.
I'm not claiming to be the one who came up with the combo. Everything has already been done. Both my friends and people I've met have taken the combo because they saw me using it, and admitted it - that's all.
Nah, he's definitely not the first, he know it, doesn't claim to own it, and isn't afraid to say it, people try everything, they eventually got there too. Even I who uses that build for now two years took the scheme from someone who informed me about bleed stacking, these builds are insanely old, dating from the Tearmonger era.
___
Anyways, if we have to think about something purely melee. Well. Think of a WotW based Bestial build, apply the same defensive scheme, pick a lunge, TBL if possible and rely on Bite + Massacre for your combos.
Will it work? Against melee opponents, yes. Bite is a great source of control aswell as damage, Massacre is an excellent damage dealing tool with a rather annoying knockdown, damage increasing when immune to it, it can potentially stand toe to toe with the AoPM DU-UR-Strafing Run caliber builds and get him to flee.
However the problem is the following: Defense stacking and healing bonuses have reached a level where if you don't have a combo dealing massive amounts of damage to put inside the 10s weakness window your frankenbuilt ennemy has, you can be sure that he'll survive you for an unlimited amount of time. Pure melee can stand but you need to have the means to 100>0 your opponents, which often means Single Blade, maybe Might to some extent (I'm sure that a WotW based one with massive cost discount can deal tremendous amounts of damage), and anything related to Unleashed Rage.
It's rarely possible to stalk and continuously damage your target down to 0 health like we used to do (Hank/Smash/Xeno builds and other double lunging wonders) when heals weren't that powerful.
There is one advantage that reduces dodge, the despondency advantage on the shadow bolts energy builder. It has got to be one of the worst advantages in the game. It is quite unfortunate. I dislike how it basically comes down to hoping your target doesn't dodge your big hits. A non-dodge spike does far more than a simple heal debuff ever could.
Also to be fair as long as there is stealth you will never kill a reasonably aware player if he doesn't want to die. Well not unless you've got stealth sight anyway. Say I choose to forgo SS and begin my awesome combo of finger snap force geyser plus puke many ebon ruins. All my target has to do is hit evasive with advantage and use the 2 seconds of stealth to completely disengage from the fight though yes most prefer to use it to turn the tide, but the former option is still there.
Say I used nailed too early .... and he's flying away with Ascension the fastest in combat flight in the game. Lovely. It's even worse for a melee that refuses to abuse omicron's legacy travel remover debuff. They lunge, target hits evasive and by the time they're able to target them again nailed has worn off and they're back to jumping around with acrobatics mocking them.
In a one on one scenario you can simply counter nimble mind's critical chain combo with masterful dodge. Just seeing nimble mind screams here I go, I'm about to use my strongest attacks please don't put up your best defense that I have no way of bypassing to counter it! Though yes that little tactic is only really beneficial when the odds aren't stacked against you. The point is, even if you do have stealth sight, bringing down certain builds is next to impossible alone regardless of whether you're melee or ranged. Being the latter doesn't really make it any easier. It still falls short.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
On Alert, Seraphim debuffed like hell, healing bonuses spreaded everywhere, mostly on roles, the rest on specs. Scaling on presence boosted, support role healing more, Hybrid role is now a must since it got the 20% healing bonus with it, and with AoPM on top of it, you get nearly twice the healing of a Brawler or an Avenger, much more if AoPM with support role without any investment in PRE.
Why are lunges melee? Because they're not ranged attacks. They don't do damage at range, they do damage/have effect when they bring you into melee range. Ranged attacks are those ones you can use to blast the bajeezus out of a melee character and they can't attack you back.
Is Unleashed Rage a melee attack? I think "close enough" due to the almost-melee range, and the way the power itself works in regards to where it's used. Really, any point-blank aoe counts as "close enough", since you can't really kite someone with them, and if there was someone who used no melee attacks, but only PBAoE, you'd be hard pressed to call them an effective ranged character. Of course, Unleashed Rage is nestled firmly into the "those powers" catagory.
Once you start dipping into 50+ range powers, especially if you find that you're using them more often than your melee attacks, you've left pure melee territory.
Now, if the question was "is melee still viable?"...well sure, you can use melee attacks alongside your ranged attacks if you want. There's really no reason to though, you're just deciding that you want to have to run up to people to attack them sometimes rather than blasting them with powerful attacks at 50-100 range.
Basically, pvp has a difficulty slider. You raise the difficulty setting by making more of your attacks melee attacks, and by making your character squishy. The only people playing on Elite are the ones using pure melee glass cannons. Most people have their pvp set for easy though, with their long range healtanks. However, there are no extra rewards for playing at a higher difficulty, neither concrete nor spiritual.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Don't know if I consider UR pure melee or not. Granted it is in the might tree but its damage isnt pure melee.
Meanwhile, you can just pick up a tier 2 power in munitions and be highly competitive, and even a better melee build(close the gap) than other melee damage sources.
Ego sleep-> bam!
Worse than ss!
And it will take about 2 months of people crying like babies to get it nerfed .
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Other than we all know it won't be kept so Op. They'll nerf it to the point that it heals the enemy then run ou of time and release it anyway. Infact has any newly released power really ever been that OP other than the first ones Eg celestial. Don't get your hopes up, these powers will just be added to the 'not worth getting' list if history is anything to go by.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
I agree with you Nepht. People who enjoy pvp should stop complaining... and just stop playing this game altogether.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Owmmmm shadow strike? Strafing Run?
The new DoTs can't be dodged btw! They could be useful...
What about you smooch? You like PvP?
:-O
I also like being sarcastic. Which do you think I'll quit first?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Me too! Wanna be friendz?
Oh and I dunno...u 40 yet?
Derp. -_- I wasn't around when they were released, I suppose they probably were released in a pretty OP state. It would be nice to have some powers that builds can actually work around released though. If they keep nerfing damage skills and not buffing powers or releasing powers that have any use then we'll see 99 heal tanks but fun won't be one.
Also DOT builds don't really work that well, AE used one for tagging and getting the odd kill through their dodge but it is way too easy to counter. Unless the DOT can hit for 500-1000 a second there wont be much hope for a build to be built on it. We'll see the burst damage reduced before release though most certainly.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
I've got quite a few years to go before I hit that birthday.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Ow u still 9 ;-pp
http://youtu.be/KStNn0fV6xc
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
brb, video response.
I like how you describe yourself as a "pro frankenbuild" & "pro pvp range build" yet die taking 6k damage.
Why the disguised voice?
What was that video actually showing? Played with out sound but to me it just looked like some noob with no gear and no powers went into bash and instead of flying above everyone just stood there wondering who the hell keeps on killing him.
Was he talking?
Omg I can't breath!!!! Edit
Is this guy serrious? The funniest thing is that it's lucidity who keeps killing him. Basically they don't have that many offense skills, all the best PvP builds work around one offensive power and if this isn't two gun mojo then usually one device (5 of the same one works)
But I'm sorry man, that video made me lol
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
There you have it. It's comedy. It's trolling. It's lucidity with a friend making an **** of themselves trying to prove a lie that lucidity insists is truth.
So. You walk, TP-less into a group of people that gangbang you senseless with all kinds of powers without you pressing a button and the conclusion you pulled out is that 'melee is viable'? Please tell me that is a joke, because it sure is fun as hell. You build like if you just got out of a leveling session through Smash Alerts and you do absolutely nothing to respond to any aggression, you were only required to press Masterful Dodge then load your travel power and get out of here.
It's like if you said you absolutely don't cheat at all on some FPS and sent THIS as a proof.
The question is... Did Luci pay you in order to stand still and exposed or you REALLY have the gameplay level of a dead oyster?
Otherwise, that was a nice troll, I give it a firm 7/10, if not, then you are a failure of a life form and absolutely nothing more, besides I hope it was a troll attempt.
http://s24.postimg.org/ck96qa38l/yas.png
http://s24.postimg.org/ck96qa38l/yas.png
MOAR PROOF!
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
killing_veteranoobz_with_single_blade!
Impossible is nothing.