Pure melee is not viable anymore because of how legions gear destroyed dodge mechanics. Most melee spikes are full charges. and now there is not enough time to dps a 14k AOPM dodge tank with 2 defense down in time.
Chainsaw does damage right through r1 MD but alas you cant hold people still now with the nerf to holds. So with reluctance my vote is pure melee is dead unless your a tank and don't plan to kill anything in bash. SH, when it poped, tanks are a nightmare, alas without SH melee is dead.
that was hard to type after playing all melee builds for 3 years, but tbo melee died when first Darken Might and several other used to **** bash in ascension pestilence enrage builds, insane. Then Kien rolled out the Ebon Ruin tanks with ascension and later Immortal AOPM tanks with ER and Ascension. TBO Dark Crusades introduction of exploited imbue double bubble cascade builds was really a blessing with killing these builds but alas always the lone melee player would be stuck in the range war. It's sad but fcking true.
One other thing, I fully condone the use of all devices in pvp except for eruption. When I see melee builds spamming 5 pulse generators together, I'm thinking that's bad azz. More power to them, zap those kiters!
roll out the presence / dex / int ego storm - chainsaw build
too funny when we did that with imolation, man talk about dps. Few people ran variation builds, Dragon Claw was one of them, I miss that guy we was the most prolific dueler.
roll out the presence / dex / int ego storm - chainsaw build
too funny when we did that with imolation, man talk about dps. Few people ran variation builds, Dragon Claw was one of them, I miss that guy we was the most prolific dueler.
He still plays. Saw him on just the other day in fact and yes he's still using Dragon Claw.
Pure melee is not viable anymore because of how legions gear destroyed dodge mechanics. Most melee spikes are full charges. and now there is not enough time to dps a 14k AOPM dodge tank with 2 defense down in time.
Chainsaw does damage right through r1 MD but alas you cant hold people still now with the nerf to holds. So with reluctance my vote is pure melee is dead unless your a tank and don't plan to kill anything in bash. SH, when it poped, tanks are a nightmare, alas without SH melee is dead.
that was hard to type after playing all melee builds for 3 years, but tbo melee died when first Darken Might and several other used to **** bash in ascension pestilence enrage builds, insane. Then Kien rolled out the Ebon Ruin tanks with ascension and later Immortal AOPM tanks with ER and Ascension. TBO Dark Crusades introduction of exploited imbue double bubble cascade builds was really a blessing with killing these builds but alas always the lone melee player would be stuck in the range war. It's sad but fcking true.
One other thing, I fully condone the use of all devices in pvp except for eruption. When I see melee builds spamming 5 pulse generators together, I'm thinking that's bad azz. More power to them, zap those kiters!
-Xeno
I disagree with you and I no longer feel like explaining why since no one else seems to get it, but thank you for your response.
Make a video and give us melee junkies hope plz. BASH.
I'll be doing that as soon as my computer comes in. It won't be under the stipulations of your challenge thread, but it won't necessarily be the norm we currently see in melee builds either.
And I believed you, I just needed to see it for myself. At least most of the in-game PvPer's have an open mind to these things, especially after they've fought me.
I'll be doing that as soon as my computer comes in. It won't be under the stipulations of your challenge thread, but it won't necessarily be the norm we currently see in melee builds either.
It's risky under your norm, the very nature of that build is about patience, it tends to come in short supply in BASH or in overwhelming amounts seeing the possible escape routes. It sure will be unique in gameplay though.
Viability is hard to come by in here mostly because the next best things in terms of mechanics and tools are utterly laughable. Single Blade is amongst the few powersets with the ability to make short work of one part of the frankenbuilds (despite the bugged Rupture) which are the AoPM melee ones. Second one with that potential is Might, but the energy costs are heavily crippling and investing there means goodbye to general survivability. The few ranged AoPM'ers I've beaten in duel with Noreck were mostly only using 2GM which is kind of kiteable. Ebon Ruin is a no-no.
It's risky under your norm, the very nature of that build is about patience, it tends to come in short supply in BASH or in overwhelming amounts seeing the possible escape routes. It sure will be unique in gameplay though.
Viability is hard to come by in here mostly because the next best things in terms of mechanics and tools are utterly laughable. Single Blade is amongst the few powersets with the ability to make short work of one part of the frankenbuilds (despite the bugged Rupture) which are the AoPM melee ones. Second one with that potential is Might, but the energy costs are heavily crippling and investing there means goodbye to general survivability. The few ranged AoPM'ers I've beaten in duel with Noreck were mostly only using 2GM which is kind of kiteable. Ebon Ruin is a no-no.
Thing is...I've done it before. I've gone 10-0 in Bash multiple times already with the build, and that wasn't against people who were clueless about the current PvP situation. It was against people who know better and even have Ebon Ruin.
Thing is...I've done it before. I've gone 10-0 in Bash multiple times already with the build, and that wasn't against people who were clueless about the current PvP situation. It was against people who know better and even have Ebon Ruin.
Oh me too, there's nothing wrong with that (leaving grievous RE wounds here and there). It's just that for the most part, if these builds want to survive they'll eventually manage to do it. More cautious people won't come back into the field until they have at least MD and Ascension ready. It's mostly about this kind of patience, knowing that you need alot of circumstances in order to get the best moment to strike, stacking bleeds through lariat spam will give a hint unless completly clueless, most of the time it's enough to persuade the opponent to.. not stay too close to you.
I'll be doing that as soon as my computer comes in. It won't be under the stipulations of your challenge thread, but it won't necessarily be the norm we currently see in melee builds either.
Well we're not in my challenge thread, so I don't know why it would be. This is the melee thread.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
That was me testing the recording/editing software. Did you really think I'd cop out by not fighting ranged characters? It's not like I'll have a choice in BASH, anyway.
That was me testing the recording/editing software. Did you really think I'd cop out by not fighting ranged characters? It's not like I'll have a choice in BASH, anyway.
Other than the pink video data numbers (frame-rate, current duration, etc) I should not be able to see in the actual video, everything looks great. Looking forward to the Bash video proper.
That was me testing the recording/editing software. Did you really think I'd cop out by not fighting ranged characters? It's not like I'll have a choice in BASH, anyway.
Well you know with things as they are around here assumptions run rampant sometimes >.>
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Other than the pink video data numbers (frame-rate, current duration, etc) I should not be able to see in the actual video, everything looks great. Looking forward to the Bash video proper.
Right, I will be removing those data numbers. And thanks for the feedback, here's to hoping I don't lose any quality for a longer recording or extra effects.
This video is a compilation of various games from yesterday, but Purin and I get into it a lot and I believe he delivers the killing blow at the end. Only criticism I have is how often he had to teleport away from a fight
A compilation of nothing but your various successes with none of the many times you've died. What's even worse is you thought it a good idea to include your kills of some of the worst builds/players currently playing. Killing toons like Zlati, Caster, and Glaceon Star is not even remotely difficult or impressive with either melee or ranged. You can't try to heavily skew a scenario like that and expect people to take you seriously.
My favorite part has to be when Rafahil on his Occult toon stood nice and still for you to stack bleeds and rupture them. The greatness that is melee must have kept him from realizing he could kite.
A compilation of nothing but your various successes with none of the many times you've died. What's even worse is you thought it a good idea to include your kills of some of the worst builds/players currently playing. Killing toons like Zlati, Caster, and Glaceon Star is not even remotely difficult or impressive with either melee or ranged. You can't try to heavily skew a scenario like that and expect people to take you seriously.
My favorite part has to be when Rafahil on his Occult toon stood nice and still for you to stack bleeds and rupture them. The greatness that is melee must have kept him from realizing he could kite.
The point of the video was to show my successes. Of course there will be times where I died or wasn't doing as well, but what would be the point in including that in the video?
You're not happy with the people I beat in the video - fine. I'll include "tougher" people next time. You didn't even mention how I did indeed kill Moldy and BAMF in nearly one shot either.
Occult must have gotten used to his NPG's for when I got close, because now he seems helpless once I get past his Ice Grenades and Omicrons.
The thing with melee is that it is hard to keep maintaining damage that is needed to kill a pvper, the only ways that someone can get around this is to somehow hit enough in burst, use a npg's with stuff to make em hit loads or to become a 'hybrid' and use ranged powers too. The bleed build has one big fault where bleed is stupid as hell to get to 5
Purin, don't expect much from that... individual. The only achievement done so far is the ability to not die which is the base. The rest is just about spreading a massive amount of rumors.
Damnit, I try really hard to call you Neiuso but Purin is just... I cant. Might explain later.
Purin, don't expect much from that... individual. The only achievement done so far is the ability to not die which is the base. The rest is just about spreading a massive amount of rumors.
Damnit, I try really hard to call you Neiuso but Purin is just... I cant. Might explain later.
I know this "individual" better than most. Take that how you will.
Call me what you like. There must be a good reason why you prefer one over the other so it doesn't bother me.
Wow, do people really stand still like that now? Wtf happen, people get lazy? Not your fault of course, though I would like to see a video where you fight some hard kiters. Not sure where you found people who will actually just stand there for you, but tell them to keep queing!
Good strategy btw, using ranged attacks to stack your bleeds so you don't actually have to maintain melee range to get your burst in.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Aaaah, good old Single Blade. Might be scared that it gets too popular as it's one of the few sets adopting a fitting meta, it's kinda too bad that it's part range though.
Xeiros didn't think the people in the video were tough enough, so I'll try to include better people next time. But keep in mind these are the people who queue most nowadays. And who exactly do you want to see me beat? People that the "good" ranged PvPer's have trouble killing as well? I can't deny that melee is at a huge disadvantage, things are tough. But I'm only here to prove melee is viable, not that I can beat the best of the best.
Smoochan wants harder kiters - I cut out up to 15 minutes of footage in some parts because I was being kited for so long before getting a kill. I figured that'd be pointless to keep in, so I left in the "good" parts. And since you requested a video of BASH, most will be focused on other people so they won't be smart enough to think about kiting me at the time. It's much more noticeable in duels if you really want to see me kited.
As far as the "strategy" goes, I figured I'd be spending most of my time chasing them down, so why not use that time wisely? The same principle goes for TK Blades for example - using TK Burst periodically to build up Ego Leech then using a strong hold or root before using Annihilation since it requires a full charge for decent damage.
Forz, people have tried Single Blade after they saw me using it and even copied my build. None of them can cut it - I've seen maybe 1 person besides you and me that was able to do anything at all with it.
Aaaah, good old Single Blade. Might be scared that it gets too popular as it's one of the few sets adopting a fitting meta, it's kinda too bad that it's part range though.
I do like the single blade power set it has some nice animations ^__^
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Smoochan wants harder kiters - I cut out up to 15 minutes of footage in some parts because I was being kited for so long before getting a kill. I figured that'd be pointless to keep in, so I left in the "good" parts. And since you requested a video of BASH, most will be focused on other people so they won't be smart enough to think about kiting me at the time. It's much more noticeable in duels if you really want to see me kited.
That's what Smooch would want to see actually. Melee builds are forced to be centered about one-hit-combo opportunity mechanics since we often only have a window of maybe... 10s max where the opponent is vulnerable? It's already a blessing that the hard part of our Single Blade set is more or less ranged.
As far as the "strategy" goes, I figured I'd be spending most of my time chasing them down, so why not use that time wisely? The same principle goes for TK Blades for example - using TK Burst periodically to build up Ego Leech then using a strong hold or root before using Annihilation since it requires a full charge for decent damage.
The only problem is that the Annihilation itself has a disgustingly low damage output for the same amount of trouble, the framework was designed with the purpose of destroying squishy targets with extreme efficiency and speed as Leeches are somewhat easier to stack, there aren't much of them, if not any of them anymore in the current state of PvP.
Forz, people have tried Single Blade after they saw me using it and even copied my build. None of them can cut it - I've seen maybe 1 person besides you and me that was able to do anything at all with it.
I think I saw that one, and... it defeated people with Unleashed Rage + NPG. -.-
I like the fact that I feel like I should be the one answering my original question now. >.>
@Forz: I don't think Annihilation's damage is too bad. I'm really tempted to say TK Blades can be better than SB if done properly (it'd probably need a way of applying trauma and exceptional lockdown powers), but there's a good chance I'm wrong. That'd be my next project if I decide to make another build, but that's highly unlikely. The reason I started playing again was to use the specific character I'm currently playing as.
And if the build needs to rely on UR/NPG for its damage, I just see it as someone who cherry picked Reaper's Embrace if they had it in their build rather than a Single Blade build. It's a bit different in your case and a certain "individual's" case however, you don't necessarily rely on either, and the other used various powers to support RE.
How far out is pure melee though? Are NW/Manipulator builds pure melee when their only powers are holds and Shadow Strike? What about builds that focus on UR and some other high spiking melee attack while including Ego Sleep and Bolas?
I'm not sure why I worded the question the way I did by including "pure" in it, but I suppose the question still stands. Is it still pure melee if someone uses lunges and holds to close the gap? Powers like Force Geyser are definitely still popular on melee builds.
First you'd have to define what exactly melee does and does not entail. Is it powers that have a range no greater than 10 feet? UR doesn't count as melee because its range is 15 feet! Is it only powers improved by the melee damage bonus from Strength, but wait what about Ego Blades? Do lunges or pulls count as ranged "attacks" simply because thier ranged is greater than 10 feet?
To be honest I can't take anyone seriously that tries to argue that using a lunge invalidism a melee build when that's the entire purpose of the mobility category in general. Purin is actually making it harder on himself by choosing to play single blade. He could easily drop the two bleed applying chain powers and reaper's embrace/caress and replace them with the far more streamlined DU+DW+ why the hell not UR "combo".
Comments
I wish I could somehow post a picture of the episode where Miu attempts to do a backflip and lands on hear head, knocking herself unconscious.
The frying pan could call in airstrikes. What am I to do against such a theme! :mad:
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
@Pallih in game
I farm while Q-time even ppl doing UTC or SH.
And I got this nice vegetable.
You forgot the duck and the onions the wrong color.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Yes I'm very busy cause harvest season. xD
Are you blind thats Lucy Liu >_>
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Desperation ^^^
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Chainsaw does damage right through r1 MD but alas you cant hold people still now with the nerf to holds. So with reluctance my vote is pure melee is dead unless your a tank and don't plan to kill anything in bash. SH, when it poped, tanks are a nightmare, alas without SH melee is dead.
that was hard to type after playing all melee builds for 3 years, but tbo melee died when first Darken Might and several other used to **** bash in ascension pestilence enrage builds, insane. Then Kien rolled out the Ebon Ruin tanks with ascension and later Immortal AOPM tanks with ER and Ascension. TBO Dark Crusades introduction of exploited imbue double bubble cascade builds was really a blessing with killing these builds but alas always the lone melee player would be stuck in the range war. It's sad but fcking true.
One other thing, I fully condone the use of all devices in pvp except for eruption. When I see melee builds spamming 5 pulse generators together, I'm thinking that's bad azz. More power to them, zap those kiters!
-Xeno
too funny when we did that with imolation, man talk about dps. Few people ran variation builds, Dragon Claw was one of them, I miss that guy we was the most prolific dueler.
I disagree with you and I no longer feel like explaining why since no one else seems to get it, but thank you for your response.
Make a video and give us melee junkies hope plz. BASH.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I'll be doing that as soon as my computer comes in. It won't be under the stipulations of your challenge thread, but it won't necessarily be the norm we currently see in melee builds either.
And I believed you, I just needed to see it for myself. At least most of the in-game PvPer's have an open mind to these things, especially after they've fought me.
It's risky under your norm, the very nature of that build is about patience, it tends to come in short supply in BASH or in overwhelming amounts seeing the possible escape routes. It sure will be unique in gameplay though.
Viability is hard to come by in here mostly because the next best things in terms of mechanics and tools are utterly laughable. Single Blade is amongst the few powersets with the ability to make short work of one part of the frankenbuilds (despite the bugged Rupture) which are the AoPM melee ones. Second one with that potential is Might, but the energy costs are heavily crippling and investing there means goodbye to general survivability. The few ranged AoPM'ers I've beaten in duel with Noreck were mostly only using 2GM which is kind of kiteable. Ebon Ruin is a no-no.
Thing is...I've done it before. I've gone 10-0 in Bash multiple times already with the build, and that wasn't against people who were clueless about the current PvP situation. It was against people who know better and even have Ebon Ruin.
Oh me too, there's nothing wrong with that (leaving grievous RE wounds here and there). It's just that for the most part, if these builds want to survive they'll eventually manage to do it. More cautious people won't come back into the field until they have at least MD and Ascension ready. It's mostly about this kind of patience, knowing that you need alot of circumstances in order to get the best moment to strike, stacking bleeds through lariat spam will give a hint unless completly clueless, most of the time it's enough to persuade the opponent to.. not stay too close to you.
Well we're not in my challenge thread, so I don't know why it would be. This is the melee thread.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
You just seem to have high expectations of everyone when it comes to these things.
I agree with you. Making a video where someone uses a melee build and is successful is a very high expectation. I'm glad we could agree on that. Hug?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89LroG3EhqA
But you tested it against another melee
Melee not being able to compete against other melee isn't really the issue
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Well you know with things as they are around here assumptions run rampant sometimes >.>
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Right, I will be removing those data numbers. And thanks for the feedback, here's to hoping I don't lose any quality for a longer recording or extra effects.
And that's completely understandable. :rolleyes:
GG's by the way.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
@Pallih in game
You've a very durable build
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjldcjPTJeE
My favorite part has to be when Rafahil on his Occult toon stood nice and still for you to stack bleeds and rupture them. The greatness that is melee must have kept him from realizing he could kite.
The point of the video was to show my successes. Of course there will be times where I died or wasn't doing as well, but what would be the point in including that in the video?
You're not happy with the people I beat in the video - fine. I'll include "tougher" people next time. You didn't even mention how I did indeed kill Moldy and BAMF in nearly one shot either.
Occult must have gotten used to his NPG's for when I got close, because now he seems helpless once I get past his Ice Grenades and Omicrons.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Purin, don't expect much from that... individual. The only achievement done so far is the ability to not die which is the base. The rest is just about spreading a massive amount of rumors.
Damnit, I try really hard to call you Neiuso but Purin is just... I cant. Might explain later.
I know this "individual" better than most. Take that how you will.
Call me what you like. There must be a good reason why you prefer one over the other so it doesn't bother me.
Epic Music o.o GJ :redface:
Wow, do people really stand still like that now? Wtf happen, people get lazy? Not your fault of course, though I would like to see a video where you fight some hard kiters. Not sure where you found people who will actually just stand there for you, but tell them to keep queing!
Good strategy btw, using ranged attacks to stack your bleeds so you don't actually have to maintain melee range to get your burst in.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Xeiros didn't think the people in the video were tough enough, so I'll try to include better people next time. But keep in mind these are the people who queue most nowadays. And who exactly do you want to see me beat? People that the "good" ranged PvPer's have trouble killing as well? I can't deny that melee is at a huge disadvantage, things are tough. But I'm only here to prove melee is viable, not that I can beat the best of the best.
Smoochan wants harder kiters - I cut out up to 15 minutes of footage in some parts because I was being kited for so long before getting a kill. I figured that'd be pointless to keep in, so I left in the "good" parts. And since you requested a video of BASH, most will be focused on other people so they won't be smart enough to think about kiting me at the time. It's much more noticeable in duels if you really want to see me kited.
As far as the "strategy" goes, I figured I'd be spending most of my time chasing them down, so why not use that time wisely? The same principle goes for TK Blades for example - using TK Burst periodically to build up Ego Leech then using a strong hold or root before using Annihilation since it requires a full charge for decent damage.
Forz, people have tried Single Blade after they saw me using it and even copied my build. None of them can cut it - I've seen maybe 1 person besides you and me that was able to do anything at all with it.
I do like the single blade power set it has some nice animations ^__^
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
That's what Smooch would want to see actually. Melee builds are forced to be centered about one-hit-combo opportunity mechanics since we often only have a window of maybe... 10s max where the opponent is vulnerable? It's already a blessing that the hard part of our Single Blade set is more or less ranged.
The only problem is that the Annihilation itself has a disgustingly low damage output for the same amount of trouble, the framework was designed with the purpose of destroying squishy targets with extreme efficiency and speed as Leeches are somewhat easier to stack, there aren't much of them, if not any of them anymore in the current state of PvP.
I think I saw that one, and... it defeated people with Unleashed Rage + NPG. -.-
..t'is is you wanna have fun.
Who cares how effective you are, as long as look good.
Champs, almost as fun as fighting in Dungeon Lords
@Forz: I don't think Annihilation's damage is too bad. I'm really tempted to say TK Blades can be better than SB if done properly (it'd probably need a way of applying trauma and exceptional lockdown powers), but there's a good chance I'm wrong. That'd be my next project if I decide to make another build, but that's highly unlikely. The reason I started playing again was to use the specific character I'm currently playing as.
And if the build needs to rely on UR/NPG for its damage, I just see it as someone who cherry picked Reaper's Embrace if they had it in their build rather than a Single Blade build. It's a bit different in your case and a certain "individual's" case however, you don't necessarily rely on either, and the other used various powers to support RE.
We've deduced that melee being propped up with ranged powers is still viable... but I think we knew that already
We saw someone in another thread give a good example of pure melee... but they didn't provide an example of viable.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I'm not sure why I worded the question the way I did by including "pure" in it, but I suppose the question still stands. Is it still pure melee if someone uses lunges and holds to close the gap? Powers like Force Geyser are definitely still popular on melee builds.
To be honest I can't take anyone seriously that tries to argue that using a lunge invalidism a melee build when that's the entire purpose of the mobility category in general. Purin is actually making it harder on himself by choosing to play single blade. He could easily drop the two bleed applying chain powers and reaper's embrace/caress and replace them with the far more streamlined DU+DW+ why the hell not UR "combo".