Also, in all seriousness, shoot me a friend invite in game @eviltaco. We'll do therakiel elite. I feel like I gotta show you that not all RPers are scrubs. Some of us use the system like dnd, as an expression. And some of us are twinks. You can definitely power game in theme. That's the whole *point* of freeform.
My numbers don't matter when I'm bull****ting with my super group. They definitely matter when I'm tanking therakiel with a squishy toon and r5 mods.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
Also, in all seriousness, shoot me a friend invite in game @eviltaco. We'll do therakiel elite. I feel like I gotta show you that not all RPers are scrubs. Some of us use the system like dnd, as an expression. And some of us are twinks. You can definitely power game in theme. That's the whole *point* of freeform.
My numbers don't matter when I'm bull****ting with my super group. They definitely matter when I'm tanking therakiel with a squishy toon and r5 mods.
Wanna play some PoE? I haven't played this game in months..
PVP is better here. PVP in COH was nerfed into lolstatus years ago. But they share one thing in common- PVP is ultimately irrelevant in both games so who cares how good it is?
Hi, you must be new here.
There was a time that pvp had by far the best gear in game. Bar none, period. It was heavily populated, and possibly one of the best parts of any mmo in recent history.
Now it seems to me that you have not played any other MMOG and in particular CoX.
Everyone of them is solo friendly and CoX in paricular was very easy to solo, the istances were automatically adjusted to the number of playersso with the excepition of the task forces mish and in the latter days of the game of the league massive teams of 40 players everything else was soloable and you could have "beated " the game without ever having teamed a single time.
The reason that teams were very popular in CoX were the same that the Alerts are here: you could get much more xp that way
You can solo the following easily, right?
Everquest.
EQ2
WoW
phht.
Also, if you're gonna tell me the average CoX player could solo all the content, I'm going to flat out laugh at you.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
There was a time that pvp had by far the best gear in game. Bar none, period. It was heavily populated, and possibly one of the best parts of any mmo in recent history.
Granted, 6 months, but still.
And now the best loot can be bought for nothing RL cash in the Q trade (plus the trivial amount of heroic grinding,) sooo0o... Who cares? I obviously never played this game before COH closed because I'm not retarded.
Hi everyone. Some of you might know me- I'm a COH player. I beat this game in about 3 months. I got to max level, got all the best gear, got high enough rank mods in all my slots to solo whatever I wanted.
so you've got to level 40- see alt-aholics thread.
you've got the best gear and mods, so you can solo what you want.
So how many of the perk acheivements have you got?
We have one person on here with, at last count ,20,000 perk pts .
They're trying to do them all.
Yes I've played wow. I left because of the elitist jerks in plague proportions.
It was so bad that in Rift(singular as opposed to Rifts,plural the PnP RPG) guild membership drives included "No elitists wanted"
While I don't agree with OP belittling RPs, I think the point of progression is totally valid.
By endgame progression I am talking about improving your character in some fashion after reaching the level cap. It could also implies having gates to certain content some absolute(attunements) or relative(character performance).
However, endgame progression is a disguise to implement time sinks to keep people running content. Moreless, playing andrith hundred times to be able to enter mandragalore and playing mandragalore hundred times to be able to play Therakiel Temple. Since the player wants to check therakiel temple he will put time to play andrith and then mandragalore even if it is not too mucho of his liking.
Endgame progression still needs some amount of content to justify it, with key boss encounters, gear, etc. Classic wow endgame progression would be hard to implement here.
CoH preIncarnate endgame is more lite endgame which consisted mainly on getting perks(I don't remember the actual name in CoH).
The problem with endgame life in CO is:
1) There is no much in-game information about what to do and why. For example, I was called to UNITY but I didn't know what could be achieved from it.
2) Lairs are not group friendly and in general not much forgiving of bad builds/play.
3) Lairs are not really advertised and lack of queues(this probably would not be necesary if they were really advertised and they have some incentive to play them)
4) Lairs rewards in general are worse given the time and effort to run them, compared to rewards from most of the other content in the game.
5) Top gear is coming from lockboxes without playing endgame. I could deck my character in full lvl 40 legion full 9lvl modded(expensive I guess) without stepping in any lair.
I think the problem is not endgame as a difficult task but endgame as a rewarding activity with some direction. Currently, the content is going more as running few times and forgetting it.
And now the best loot can be bought for nothing RL cash in the Q trade (plus the trivial amount of heroic grinding,) sooo0o... Who cares? I obviously never played this game before COH closed because I'm not retarded.
>he thinks the best loot comes from questionite.
No really, gear in this game doesn't matter anymore. But it did, and the pvp was amazing. They killed the part of it that was most intriguing, because our old power guy seemed to flat out hate it.
Why are you here if you hate it so much, and think the whole system is crap? If you're not retarded, and playing this game is retarded, then... I don't really know where this is going. Damn, I was agreeing with you and offering to run some elite content. Why so hostile?
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
while I Don't Agree With Op Belittling Rps, I Think The Point Of Progression Is Totally Valid.
By Endgame Progression I Am Talking About Improving Your Character In Some Fashion After Reaching The Level Cap. It Could Also Implies Having Gates To Certain Content Some Absolute(attunements) Or Relative(character Performance).
However, Endgame Progression Is A Disguise To Implement Time Sinks To Keep People Running Content. Moreless, Playing Andrith Hundred Times To Be Able To Enter Mandragalore And Playing Mandragalore Hundred Times To Be Able To Play Therakiel Temple. Since The Player Wants To Check Therakiel Temple He Will Put Time To Play Andrith And Then Mandragalore Even If It Is Not Too Mucho Of His Liking.
Endgame Progression Still Needs Some Amount Of Content To Justify It, With Key Boss Encounters, Gear, Etc. Classic Wow Endgame Progression Would Be Hard To Implement Here.
Coh Preincarnate Endgame Is More Lite Endgame Which Consisted Mainly On Getting Perks(i Don't Remember The Actual Name In Coh).
The Problem With Endgame Life In Co Is:
1) There Is No Much In-game Information About What To Do And Why. For Example, I Was Called To Unity But I Didn't Know What Could Be Achieved From It.
2) Lairs Are Not Group Friendly And In General Not Much Forgiving Of Bad Builds/play.
3) Lairs Are Not Really Advertised And Lack Of Queues(this Probably Would Not Be Necesary If They Were Really Advertised And They Have Some Incentive To Play Them)
4) Lairs Rewards In General Are Worse Given The Time And Effort To Run Them, Compared To Rewards From Most Of The Other Content In The Game.
5) Top Gear Is Coming From Lockboxes Without Playing Endgame. I Could Deck My Character In Full Lvl 40 Legion Full 9lvl Modded(expensive I Guess) Without Stepping In Any Lair.
I Think The Problem Is Not Endgame As A Difficult Task But Endgame As A Rewarding Activity With Some Direction. Currently, The Content Is Going More As Running Few Times And Forgetting It.
^^^^^^^
yes!
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
Hi everyone. Some of you might know me- I'm a COH player. I beat this game in about 3 months. I got to max level, got all the best gear, got high enough rank mods in all my slots to solo whatever I wanted.
so you've got to level 40- see alt-aholics thread.
you've got the best gear and mods, so you can solo what you want.
So how many of the perk acheivements have you got?
We have one person on here with, at last count ,20,000 perk pts .
They're trying to do them all.
Petty side tasks aren't what you build a game around. There's no incentive to keep playing. I had a **** ton of badges on my mains in COH.
I collected those in between content patches, after grinding the best loot on my alts. I did that in the meantime because new content was coming. An end game existed. And I collected Master badges on the most elite content in the game, because the game actually had elite content.
There's just no point in doing anything here. Once you win, you win. Game over. All that's left is occupying yourself with trivialities. In COH there was actual incentive to keep playing- character progression.
Referring back to the OP, I don't expect this game to be as good as COH. It's impossible.
Cryptic is broke, and I get that. But the resources that they spend every month on lock boxes and 'change into a car powers' could be consolidated into developing a standard gear treadmill with large scale raiding.
That's just easy to do. They can copy and paste from WoW like they already did with so many other aspects of the game.
The expectations are low. CO can't innovate like COH, it can't keep pushing the bar. But it can at least keep pace in its mediocrity. That alone, plus the inherently awesome COH customization and super hero theme, could make this a decent, actually playable game.
Heroic primaries from UNITY or whatever it's called, takes no time at all to get. Q gear for secondaries. Nice picture.
Why are you here if you hate it so much, and think the whole system is crap? If you're not retarded, and playing this game is retarded, then... I don't really know where this is going. Damn, I was agreeing with you and offering to run some elite content. Why so hostile?
I like it because the fundamentals are amazing. Rather, I want to like it. CO laid the groundwork for a freaking amazing game. If I could like any game, it would be this one. The potential here is insane, from the costume customization to the free form process.
Champions Online could be the most incredible MMO on the market today. But its overlords choose for that not to be the case, and alarmingly the player-base seems intent on pushing its future development in the completely wrong direction.
You can solo the following easily, right?
Everquest.
EQ2
WoW
phht.
Also, if you're gonna tell me the average CoX player could solo all the content, I'm going to flat out laugh at you.
Never played Everquest and Eq2 but i have soloed WoW with many chars ( and with the paladin and now the monk classes is extra easy)
Don't tell me that you were unable to solo CoX. The only times that I had a problem was when I had to activate multiple devices simultaneously :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
Never played Everquest and Eq2 but i have soloed WoW with many chars ( and with the paladin and now the monk classes is extra easy)
Don't tell me tha you were unable to soloi CoX. The only times that I had a problem was when I had to activate multiple devices simultaneously :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
I guess you missed the parts where he said "average player" and "all of the content".
Champions Online could be the most incredible MMO on the market today. But its overlords choose for that not to be the case, and alarmingly the player-base seems intent on pushing its future development in the completely wrong direction.
"People don't know what they want until you show it to them." - Steve Jobs
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." - Henry Ford (supposedly)
"However, he's also extremely arrogant. He's completely intolerant of play styles other than his own. If you challenge his beliefs, he'll automatically call you a Noob, a Scrub, or something similar. As far as he's concerned if you don't play like him you have only your inferior skills to blame, because obviously you would if you could."
"However, he's also extremely arrogant. He's completely intolerant of play styles other than his own. If you challenge his beliefs, he'll automatically call you a Noob, a Scrub, or something similar. As far as he's concerned if you don't play like him you have only your inferior skills to blame, because obviously you would if you could."
"People don't know what they want until you show it to them." - Steve Jobs
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." - Henry Ford (supposedly)
These are awesome truths. I have always said that one of the key of wow success is that they don't really care about the vocal minority and probably use other methods to research which in which direction they should steer wow's development.
However, they can do that since the vocal minority is not significant in the total population. On the contrary, in games with low population a company could feel insecure of following their own beliefs.
I wonder what ATs he's soloed Therakiel and co. with. If you're you're looking for difficulty FFs are easy mode since you can have the god modes you want.
Sometimes I wonder about the side effects of parents who keep buying their kids a new toy every week just because the kids ask for a new toy.
Raiders that make locusts look like concerned environmentalists.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Now it seems to me that you have not played any other MMOG and in particular CoX.
Everyone of them is solo friendly and CoX in paricular was very easy to solo, the istances were automatically adjusted to the number of players so, with the excepition of the task forces mish and in the latter days of the game of the "league" massive teams of 40 players, everything else was soloable and you could have "beated " the game without ever having teamed a single time.
The reason that teams were very popular in CoX were the same that the Alerts are here: you could get much more xp that way
You cant exaggerate the importance of team friendly environment to an MMOs player retention.
Wow is by far not the best MMO on the market, but every one plays wow because everyone knows some one who plays wow. Its the social factor that makes wow so powerful and the social factor that made COX special. Im not saying you should never be able to solo in an mmo but if a game is weighted to heavily on the solo side the community and by extension the income of the game will suffer.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Why are you here if you hate it so much, and think the whole system is crap?
Because he's a troll, Taco. He's here trying to get exactly the level of player outrage he's been getting.
If I had to postulate a reason for it, it might have something to do with being extremely powerless in his personal life, and attempting to puff that up in his head by making up an elitist online persona, knowing that not one of us can check up on his bull - but I don't have to postulate anything, so I shan't.
Oh, on another note - where did I say anything about all of the game needing to be soloable in that post? I was just saying that if you want a game where it winds up being an endless grind to get better gear so you can participate in more of that endless grind to get even better gear to grind yet again, all those games are just down the street. They're not hard to find at all. I used to play one of them. It failed to hold my interest - while CO, flawed as it is, has kept me playing, and buying stuff.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Well nuts, you got me beat. I haven't figured out to beat the game yet which is why I keep making so many characters. Then again, when I do finally manage to beat the game and the credits roll I probably won't recognize any of the dev names in the credits unless I go over to STO or NW...
Well nuts, you got me beat. I haven't figured out to beat the game yet which is why I keep making so many characters. Then again, when I do finally manage to beat the game and the credits roll I probably won't recognize any of the dev names in the credits unless I go over to STO or NW...
I beat the game once. Right before I stopped playing for a while. I know I beat the game because I could feel that there was nothing else to do.. and that's how you know a game is over, cause you can't find anything else to do.
Well, apparently they came out with a sequel during those months where I stopped playing, because when I logged in again there was suddenly stuff to do again! It was a lot like the old stuff, strangely enough.. but hey, it's a sequel, not like it would be completely different or anything. I am now trying as hard as I can to beat the game again... problem is, every time I get close I somehow manage to mess up my progression because of something I do at the powerhouse.
It's an interesting mechanic that they seem to have added in the sequel... there's some sort of trap in the powerhouse I keep falling into that keeps putting me further and further away from beating the game. It actually happened a bunch of times recently, but I'm no closer to figuring it out, but I'll keep trying by gammit!
I don't think I've ever spent so long trying to beat a game, especially on a sequel that's so similar to the original... maybe Champions Online 2 is more challenging than we give it credit for!
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I was just saying that if you want a game where it winds up being an endless grind to get better gear so you can participate in more of that endless grind to get even better gear to grind yet again, all those games are just down the street. They're not hard to find at all. I used to play one of them. It failed to hold my interest - while CO, flawed as it is, has kept me playing, and buying stuff.
This "go play WOW" dismissal mentality really bugs me. Any one who plays CO knows that certain things that no other MMO does, thats why we put up with its BS.
As you said CO is flawed and the lack of end game is one of those flaws. End game, like pvp is just one of those things that some people don't like but still a valid addition to any mmo.
Once again, your sharp enough to know that the MMO industry isn't overflowing with super hero sims with robust customization options. if we were on any fantasy mmo forums, the "go play wow" mantra may have some validity but not here.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
when I do finally manage to beat the game and the credits roll I probably won't recognize any of the dev names in the credits unless I go over to STO or NW...
*lols then QQs*
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
That's the thing, people will naturally argue about what features are the selling points of the game vs. stuff that must change to improve the games.
I personally like not having an 'endgame' in the sense of raids and gear spirals. I'd rather have an endgame where you can relax and do whatever strikes your fancy... but having lots of random cool things to do.
But on the flip side, there are plenty of folks who like grinds and raids, and the absence is a problem to fix for them.
Of course, currently we have neither raids nor sandboxes and cool content to do at endgame, so nobody is happy,
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
This "go play WOW" dismissal mentality really bugs me. Any one who plays CO knows that certain things that no other MMO does, thats why we put up with its BS.
As you said CO is flawed and the lack of end game is one of those flaws. End game, like pvp is just one of those things that some people don't like but still a valid addition to any mmo.
Once again, your sharp enough to know that the MMO industry isn't overflowing with super hero sims with robust customization options. if we were on any fantasy mmo forums, the "go play wow" mantra may have some validity but not here.
Yes, and one of the things it does is not have a gear grind, and of all the decisions the devs have ever made, this is one I 100% agree with and hope they never ever budge on. End game is fine, but gear grind is bad.
Players here don't need to be motivated by gear, they'll do something just because it's fun, and the devs know that.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Yes, and one of the things it does is not have a gear grind, and of all the decisions the devs have ever made, this is one I 100% agree with and hope they never ever budge on. End game is fine, but gear grind is bad.
Players here don't need to be motivated by gear, they'll do something just because it's fun, and the devs know that.
I am not specifically advocating for a gear grind but i am personally not against it. Your post is fine as long as we make the distinction between your personal taste and whats objectively good for the game.
I disagree with the underlined part. Players don't necessarily need to be motivated by "gear" specifically but there needs to be some kind of reward that comes in the form of progression. If you expect a large part of a MMO population to engage in an activity, it has to be not only fun but rewarding. The fun is its own reward in MMOs idea is a myth. On the other side of the coin are the people who think that "the rewards ARE the fun".
As i understand it, COXs end game was progression based, but not "gear" focused, are you against that too?
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
As i understand it, COXs end game was progression based, but not "gear" focused, are you against that too?
The not-universally-loved Incarnate system was very much a gear grind. Sure you didn't get ridiculously oversized shoulder pads but you had to grind currency to make your incarnate enhancement and then grind new currencies to turn those in with the old one to make a better one along with grinding the "rep" to unlock the slot in the first place. Lather rinse repeat please shoot me.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
So you haven't got many of the perks. Didn't think so.
Just a question, did you do missions to get to 40?
CO is actually described as it's about the journey, not end game centered. (hmmm just like that new game GW2. Which, quite frankly, was the most boring grind I've seen for a while.)
IT is , for the most part , made for solo play. Only afew places need extra people
In a nutshell, think of a Skinner box. You have a rat in a box and a button to push for food. When food comes out, they're happy because they get to eat. That's positive reinforcement.
Based on Skinner's experiments, a variable ratio schedule would keep rats pushing the buttons the longest. i.e. when pushing the button doesn't always give food. Instead, it's random. Maybe they will get food the next press, or maybe 50 presses later.
Now replace rats with players, food with shiny gear and the box with an MMO and you have a formula to keep players grinding for a long time. GW2 developer Colin Johanson touches on this in his blog post:
If the success of a subscription-based MMO is measured by the number of people paying a monthly fee, how does that impact game design decisions?
The answer can be found in the mechanics and choices made in subscription-based MMOs, which keep customers actively playing by chasing something in the game through processes that take as long as possible. In other words, they design content systems that take more time to keep people playing longer. If this is your business motivation and model so you keep getting paid, it makes sense and is an incredibly smart thing to do, and you need to support it.
So what happens in a Casual-oriented F2P Cash Shop game that doesn't make money from making players grind their butts off? I think Cryptic's already found a profitable solution there
the incarnate system was probably the best endgame I have played,
Some players not liking a mmo feature is not a compelling argument against a MMO adding such a feature. This is especially true because adding end game would not prevent you from continuing to enjoy the game as you do today.
Can some one give an example of a MMO that was doing fine and after end game was added the game failed as a direct result of the end game?
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
WOW its so refreshing for someone to frame their argument with objective information as opposed to personal interest masquerading as objective facts.
/e tip hat
I cant wait for some of the anti end game crowd to read the articles and respond with logical rational arguments against endgame instead of just saying "Don't add it because i don't like it".
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
There are so many different things that draw players to try a game and to keep playing it. For me, it's about being able to create new characters and to see my concepts realized. When the 11k Q sets were released, I was ecstatic - gear I could get once and not have to worry about again was just what I was looking for.
It's not just about getting better gear - though that is one thing that draws people in. It's also about content which really pushes your characters to their limits. This, however, poses a problem - increasing enemy damage and HP isn't the best way to go about this. Better AI, environmental challenges, and so on, are what keeps people playing. These are the areas where CO has been lacking. The notion of "fake difficulty" vs a true challenge has plagued CO since launch.
What we need are encounters where enemies use tactics, debuff players, and use the environment to their advantage. What we currently have are basically ranged enemies and melee enemies... we need more in terms of what distance they attack from and HOW they go about posing a threat to the players...
Drawing from the above, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that there *should* be content that isn't really doable w/ a random PUG. Given the size of dev team we currently have, however, it doesn't surprise me that the focus has been on adding content that is accessible to a broader range of players...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
A modern game like CoD takes 4 hours to beat but CO a game you can play for free can take you 3 MONTHS..I really dont see where the OP is coming from :I
As for being evil. I've been evil in CO for over two years. Ok theres no evil content but I have an evil SG that does battles with their goody two shoes rivals.
I was wondering how long it would be before we seen another make this more like CoX thread.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
WOW its so refreshing for someone to frame their argument with objective information as opposed to personal interest masquerading as objective facts.
/e tip hat
I cant wait for some of the anti end game crowd to read the articles and respond with logical rational arguments against endgame instead of just saying "Don't add it because i don't like it".
I can't wait for you to find the anti end game crowd.
I say that because they don't actually exist and are a complete fabrication. Who are you even arguing with?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
GW2 is a great example of creating interesting, robust material that has legs.
Even when you hit 'max level,' you have reasons to go to 'lower level' regions and go play. (Level adjustment, so it's still useful, plus exploration benefits. I forget if they normalized treasure for that, too)
Very involved dynamic events give the world a sense of immersion and life that is lacking in the more traditional quest structure. I mean, sure, you aren't _really_ affecting the world in any lasting way, but branching results and unfolding local events mean there is a strong illusion of importance, particularly given people are unlikely to sit in one area for a very long time and see events recycle.
Stuff like this creates the possibility of endgame activities beyond 'get Fire Token Magister to go into Fire Depths to get Fire Token Excelsior to go into Fire Pits to get Fire Token Supremo to go into Fire Delve to get Fire Token Sisyphean to...'
Mind you, GW2 then proceeded to add that sort of thing with Fractal Dungeon. Meh.
I mean, one of my great disappointments with STO was that pre-Season 7, I mostly liked endgame -- I was 'done' getting most gear. Yes, there was STFs to get the ultra gear, but I played just enough to get the almost-best gear, and I could kick back, knowing the slight difference wasn't that significant.
What was 'left to do'? Well, I could do missions, Foundry missions, PvP, do elite STFs for the fun of it (and if stuff dropped, cool), and so on.
I LIKED that.
Then came changes that gave people Reputation. On the plus side, I liked the fact that getting endgame gear was no longer utterly random -- it was a clear progression. On the negative side, it was this massive time/money sink to do 'endgame stuff.'
It felt like my fun was horribly narrowed to MUST GRIND REPUTATION. And fleet stuff, dear jeebus. Being in small fleets and actually trying to do fleet projects is like having a tennis ball gun on rapid fire aimed at your jimmies.
Ultimately, after having a frustrating time with it and a massive rageout, I'm back to where I was previously -- I'll tinker along with Reputation in no particular hurry, and enjoy a relaxed endgame that doesn't have to feel like a job.
And I'm pleased with STO endgame, because, ultimately, there's lots of stuff to do -- work on Reputation, do STFs, do other instances/actions, pvp, Foundry, redo (or get around to) core missions, do explorations, work on fleet projects (if you happen to be in a decent-sized fleet), experiment with builds and gear, and myriad fiddly things with duty officers.
That's, really, my ideal endgame -- there's nothing that will drastically balloon my power level compared to other folks and, thus, makes me feel like my fun is dictated, but there's plenty of content that has some reward.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Ultimately, after having a frustrating time with it and a massive rageout, I'm back to where I was previously -- I'll tinker along with Reputation in no particular hurry, and enjoy a relaxed endgame that doesn't have to feel like a job.
And I'm pleased with STO endgame, because, ultimately, there's lots of stuff to do -- work on Reputation, do STFs, do other instances/actions, pvp, Foundry, redo (or get around to) core missions, do explorations, work on fleet projects (if you happen to be in a decent-sized fleet), experiment with builds and gear, and myriad fiddly things with duty officers.
That's, really, my ideal endgame -- there's nothing that will drastically balloon my power level compared to other folks and, thus, makes me feel like my fun is dictated, but there's plenty of content that has some reward.
I love that about STO as well, but I thankfully I didn't have the ragefest first. Glad you got it worked out because everythings better once you're past that hump and realize you don't need to max out anything right now.
@the OP and others who feel the same:
I feel the same as zahinder feels about STO but with champions. Yup I've got two characters who have the gear and builds that other people have used to solo not just things like Vikorin's Temple, but multiple Shadow Collosus. I still die using them on normal content but you know, hey, that's how it goes. 1337 I am not.
But I've also got a bunch of other character ideas I'm goofing around with. Some of them will take me well into mid 2014 to hit level 40, and they are already out of the tutorial today. I'm cool with that. And by the time I get there I'll have seen all the missions 300 times instead of the 20 I already have. I'm cool with that too.
More would be great. But I'm having fun right now. I know great people, some from City, many long time Champs peeps. I don't need CO to be City. Yes I miss it, but it's gone. I don't need it to be like WOW, because I quit that for a reason. And all the others I've played over the years. It is Champions, that is what it is supposed to be. It has already achieved this. I can choose to enjoy it or not. You can choose to enjoy it or not. The devs can choose to make it better or not.
Right now, it is good and I have fun with it. And I hope you do too.
It seems like endgame is a necessary evil. I agree with the implications at the end of the article that innovation can help the end game not be so hated by players.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
It was a good read, but TBH, nothing new to me. At the same time, the devs are sometimes guilty of the opposite - putting out repetitive quests, (kill X mobs, turn it in, kill Y mobs, turn it in), and attaching copy-paste rewards at the end, (random green item A, random green item B, random drop-box C, or token of type D).
It goes both ways - if they properly playtest new content to figure out how long said content takes to do, they can come out with a proper risk vs reward and reward vs time balance. Make full use of your free playtesters and LISTEN to them - the ones interested in testing the new content are likely the most experienced players anyway.
All too often do we see the side of the argument where power A overperforms and gets reduced in effectiveness too far, but power B that was *always* underperforming rarely gets the buff it so badly needs.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Gear treadmill doesn't fit here. We don't even really need the top-end gear we have access to now... your idea would require them to keep coming out with new zones/lairs/comic packs/alerts whatever with bigger numbers to validate the existence of the gear. I think it's safe to say that the players and the devs would rather just come out with the zones/lairs/comic packs/alerrts and leave the gear treadmill out of it.
"Sorry Superman, you can't come with us to fight villains today, your gear isn't good enough."
Yeah right.
I'm sorry, it almost sounds like your opposing adding end game to CO. If that were the case, it would make you yourself a part of the anti endgame crowd (and thus one of my fabrications).... but that would be just plain silly
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Smoochy is not saying "no endgame." Smoochy is saying "no endgame that consists solely of grinding the gear to run the missions to grind the gear to run the missions to..."
Now, if that's your sole concept of "endgame", then count me out, thanks. Like I said, I played a game that was designed that way. I stopped, because after a certain point, I wasn't having any fun. If I liked treadmills, I'd be working out, not sitting here playing on my computer. It would be better for me, too - but not fun.
(As for your other challenge, to the best of my knowledge the only game that's ever added your version of "endgame" after launch was CoX. I can't say it was that specifically that brought it to an end - but since NCSoft never said exactly what their issue was, I can't say that it wasn't that, either...)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
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Also, in all seriousness, shoot me a friend invite in game @eviltaco. We'll do therakiel elite. I feel like I gotta show you that not all RPers are scrubs. Some of us use the system like dnd, as an expression. And some of us are twinks. You can definitely power game in theme. That's the whole *point* of freeform.
My numbers don't matter when I'm bull****ting with my super group. They definitely matter when I'm tanking therakiel with a squishy toon and r5 mods.
RIP Caine
Wanna play some PoE? I haven't played this game in months..
There was a time that pvp had by far the best gear in game. Bar none, period. It was heavily populated, and possibly one of the best parts of any mmo in recent history.
Granted, 6 months, but still.
You can solo the following easily, right?
Everquest.
EQ2
WoW
phht.
Also, if you're gonna tell me the average CoX player could solo all the content, I'm going to flat out laugh at you.
RIP Caine
And now the best loot can be bought for nothing RL cash in the Q trade (plus the trivial amount of heroic grinding,) sooo0o... Who cares? I obviously never played this game before COH closed because I'm not retarded.
so you've got to level 40- see alt-aholics thread.
you've got the best gear and mods, so you can solo what you want.
So how many of the perk acheivements have you got?
We have one person on here with, at last count ,20,000 perk pts .
They're trying to do them all.
Yes I've played wow. I left because of the elitist jerks in plague proportions.
It was so bad that in Rift(singular as opposed to Rifts,plural the PnP RPG) guild membership drives included "No elitists wanted"
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By endgame progression I am talking about improving your character in some fashion after reaching the level cap. It could also implies having gates to certain content some absolute(attunements) or relative(character performance).
However, endgame progression is a disguise to implement time sinks to keep people running content. Moreless, playing andrith hundred times to be able to enter mandragalore and playing mandragalore hundred times to be able to play Therakiel Temple. Since the player wants to check therakiel temple he will put time to play andrith and then mandragalore even if it is not too mucho of his liking.
Endgame progression still needs some amount of content to justify it, with key boss encounters, gear, etc. Classic wow endgame progression would be hard to implement here.
CoH preIncarnate endgame is more lite endgame which consisted mainly on getting perks(I don't remember the actual name in CoH).
The problem with endgame life in CO is:
1) There is no much in-game information about what to do and why. For example, I was called to UNITY but I didn't know what could be achieved from it.
2) Lairs are not group friendly and in general not much forgiving of bad builds/play.
3) Lairs are not really advertised and lack of queues(this probably would not be necesary if they were really advertised and they have some incentive to play them)
4) Lairs rewards in general are worse given the time and effort to run them, compared to rewards from most of the other content in the game.
5) Top gear is coming from lockboxes without playing endgame. I could deck my character in full lvl 40 legion full 9lvl modded(expensive I guess) without stepping in any lair.
I think the problem is not endgame as a difficult task but endgame as a rewarding activity with some direction. Currently, the content is going more as running few times and forgetting it.
>he thinks the best loot comes from questionite.
No really, gear in this game doesn't matter anymore. But it did, and the pvp was amazing. They killed the part of it that was most intriguing, because our old power guy seemed to flat out hate it.
Why are you here if you hate it so much, and think the whole system is crap? If you're not retarded, and playing this game is retarded, then... I don't really know where this is going. Damn, I was agreeing with you and offering to run some elite content. Why so hostile?
RIP Caine
^^^^^^^
yes!
RIP Caine
Petty side tasks aren't what you build a game around. There's no incentive to keep playing. I had a **** ton of badges on my mains in COH.
I collected those in between content patches, after grinding the best loot on my alts. I did that in the meantime because new content was coming. An end game existed. And I collected Master badges on the most elite content in the game, because the game actually had elite content.
There's just no point in doing anything here. Once you win, you win. Game over. All that's left is occupying yourself with trivialities. In COH there was actual incentive to keep playing- character progression.
Referring back to the OP, I don't expect this game to be as good as COH. It's impossible.
Cryptic is broke, and I get that. But the resources that they spend every month on lock boxes and 'change into a car powers' could be consolidated into developing a standard gear treadmill with large scale raiding.
That's just easy to do. They can copy and paste from WoW like they already did with so many other aspects of the game.
The expectations are low. CO can't innovate like COH, it can't keep pushing the bar. But it can at least keep pace in its mediocrity. That alone, plus the inherently awesome COH customization and super hero theme, could make this a decent, actually playable game.
Heroic primaries from UNITY or whatever it's called, takes no time at all to get. Q gear for secondaries. Nice picture.
I like it because the fundamentals are amazing. Rather, I want to like it. CO laid the groundwork for a freaking amazing game. If I could like any game, it would be this one. The potential here is insane, from the costume customization to the free form process.
Champions Online could be the most incredible MMO on the market today. But its overlords choose for that not to be the case, and alarmingly the player-base seems intent on pushing its future development in the completely wrong direction.
Don't tell me that you were unable to solo CoX. The only times that I had a problem was when I had to activate multiple devices simultaneously :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
I guess you missed the parts where he said "average player" and "all of the content".
"People don't know what they want until you show it to them." - Steve Jobs
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." - Henry Ford (supposedly)
Yes, we all play cosmic horrors that can't back up our character concepts at all. Also, we don't ever play the video game itself.
Wait, what's that? A thought, drifting through yonder window... could it be?
Maybe people RP because we're bored and we've blasted through 99% of what this game has to offer and we're making the best of the customization.
Whoa! M'lord, it makes SENSE! Begone, ye foul abomination! We'll have none of that heresy!
And now back to making fart noises against the keyboard to prove how much more awesome I am than anyone else because I win at PvP in CO.
ohjdfgjndivnh;klagjdfnvamdlok jlksndf'lkjadx;lkhafxkj;gn 'skajdflaskndgvk;ldfmn v;kjaxn
"However, he's also extremely arrogant. He's completely intolerant of play styles other than his own. If you challenge his beliefs, he'll automatically call you a Noob, a Scrub, or something similar. As far as he's concerned if you don't play like him you have only your inferior skills to blame, because obviously you would if you could."
These are awesome truths. I have always said that one of the key of wow success is that they don't really care about the vocal minority and probably use other methods to research which in which direction they should steer wow's development.
However, they can do that since the vocal minority is not significant in the total population. On the contrary, in games with low population a company could feel insecure of following their own beliefs.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Raiders that make locusts look like concerned environmentalists.
You cant exaggerate the importance of team friendly environment to an MMOs player retention.
Wow is by far not the best MMO on the market, but every one plays wow because everyone knows some one who plays wow. Its the social factor that makes wow so powerful and the social factor that made COX special. Im not saying you should never be able to solo in an mmo but if a game is weighted to heavily on the solo side the community and by extension the income of the game will suffer.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
If I had to postulate a reason for it, it might have something to do with being extremely powerless in his personal life, and attempting to puff that up in his head by making up an elitist online persona, knowing that not one of us can check up on his bull - but I don't have to postulate anything, so I shan't.
Oh, on another note - where did I say anything about all of the game needing to be soloable in that post? I was just saying that if you want a game where it winds up being an endless grind to get better gear so you can participate in more of that endless grind to get even better gear to grind yet again, all those games are just down the street. They're not hard to find at all. I used to play one of them. It failed to hold my interest - while CO, flawed as it is, has kept me playing, and buying stuff.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I beat the game once. Right before I stopped playing for a while. I know I beat the game because I could feel that there was nothing else to do.. and that's how you know a game is over, cause you can't find anything else to do.
Well, apparently they came out with a sequel during those months where I stopped playing, because when I logged in again there was suddenly stuff to do again! It was a lot like the old stuff, strangely enough.. but hey, it's a sequel, not like it would be completely different or anything. I am now trying as hard as I can to beat the game again... problem is, every time I get close I somehow manage to mess up my progression because of something I do at the powerhouse.
It's an interesting mechanic that they seem to have added in the sequel... there's some sort of trap in the powerhouse I keep falling into that keeps putting me further and further away from beating the game. It actually happened a bunch of times recently, but I'm no closer to figuring it out, but I'll keep trying by gammit!
I don't think I've ever spent so long trying to beat a game, especially on a sequel that's so similar to the original... maybe Champions Online 2 is more challenging than we give it credit for!
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
your just being a troll for troll sake
so its best to ignore you from now on
This "go play WOW" dismissal mentality really bugs me. Any one who plays CO knows that certain things that no other MMO does, thats why we put up with its BS.
As you said CO is flawed and the lack of end game is one of those flaws. End game, like pvp is just one of those things that some people don't like but still a valid addition to any mmo.
Once again, your sharp enough to know that the MMO industry isn't overflowing with super hero sims with robust customization options. if we were on any fantasy mmo forums, the "go play wow" mantra may have some validity but not here.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
*lols then QQs*
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
I personally like not having an 'endgame' in the sense of raids and gear spirals. I'd rather have an endgame where you can relax and do whatever strikes your fancy... but having lots of random cool things to do.
But on the flip side, there are plenty of folks who like grinds and raids, and the absence is a problem to fix for them.
Of course, currently we have neither raids nor sandboxes and cool content to do at endgame, so nobody is happy,
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Yes, and one of the things it does is not have a gear grind, and of all the decisions the devs have ever made, this is one I 100% agree with and hope they never ever budge on. End game is fine, but gear grind is bad.
Players here don't need to be motivated by gear, they'll do something just because it's fun, and the devs know that.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
The devs do not care about player experience. Fun has been a irrelevant factor for quite some time.
If you want fun you can have it AFTER buying a lockbox key.
Bitterness at its best.
Only problem is... this game is fun.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I am not specifically advocating for a gear grind but i am personally not against it. Your post is fine as long as we make the distinction between your personal taste and whats objectively good for the game.
I disagree with the underlined part. Players don't necessarily need to be motivated by "gear" specifically but there needs to be some kind of reward that comes in the form of progression. If you expect a large part of a MMO population to engage in an activity, it has to be not only fun but rewarding. The fun is its own reward in MMOs idea is a myth. On the other side of the coin are the people who think that "the rewards ARE the fun".
As i understand it, COXs end game was progression based, but not "gear" focused, are you against that too?
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
The not-universally-loved Incarnate system was very much a gear grind. Sure you didn't get ridiculously oversized shoulder pads but you had to grind currency to make your incarnate enhancement and then grind new currencies to turn those in with the old one to make a better one along with grinding the "rep" to unlock the slot in the first place. Lather rinse repeat please shoot me.
Just a question, did you do missions to get to 40?
CO is actually described as it's about the journey, not end game centered. (hmmm just like that new game GW2. Which, quite frankly, was the most boring grind I've seen for a while.)
IT is , for the most part , made for solo play. Only afew places need extra people
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In a nutshell, think of a Skinner box. You have a rat in a box and a button to push for food. When food comes out, they're happy because they get to eat. That's positive reinforcement.
Based on Skinner's experiments, a variable ratio schedule would keep rats pushing the buttons the longest. i.e. when pushing the button doesn't always give food. Instead, it's random. Maybe they will get food the next press, or maybe 50 presses later.
Now replace rats with players, food with shiny gear and the box with an MMO and you have a formula to keep players grinding for a long time. GW2 developer Colin Johanson touches on this in his blog post:
So what happens in a Casual-oriented F2P Cash Shop game that doesn't make money from making players grind their butts off? I think Cryptic's already found a profitable solution there
Some players not liking a mmo feature is not a compelling argument against a MMO adding such a feature. This is especially true because adding end game would not prevent you from continuing to enjoy the game as you do today.
Can some one give an example of a MMO that was doing fine and after end game was added the game failed as a direct result of the end game?
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
/e tip hat
I cant wait for some of the anti end game crowd to read the articles and respond with logical rational arguments against endgame instead of just saying "Don't add it because i don't like it".
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
It's not just about getting better gear - though that is one thing that draws people in. It's also about content which really pushes your characters to their limits. This, however, poses a problem - increasing enemy damage and HP isn't the best way to go about this. Better AI, environmental challenges, and so on, are what keeps people playing. These are the areas where CO has been lacking. The notion of "fake difficulty" vs a true challenge has plagued CO since launch.
What we need are encounters where enemies use tactics, debuff players, and use the environment to their advantage. What we currently have are basically ranged enemies and melee enemies... we need more in terms of what distance they attack from and HOW they go about posing a threat to the players...
Drawing from the above, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that there *should* be content that isn't really doable w/ a random PUG. Given the size of dev team we currently have, however, it doesn't surprise me that the focus has been on adding content that is accessible to a broader range of players...
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As for being evil. I've been evil in CO for over two years. Ok theres no evil content but I have an evil SG that does battles with their goody two shoes rivals.
I was wondering how long it would be before we seen another make this more like CoX thread.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I can't wait for you to find the anti end game crowd.
I say that because they don't actually exist and are a complete fabrication. Who are you even arguing with?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Even when you hit 'max level,' you have reasons to go to 'lower level' regions and go play. (Level adjustment, so it's still useful, plus exploration benefits. I forget if they normalized treasure for that, too)
Very involved dynamic events give the world a sense of immersion and life that is lacking in the more traditional quest structure. I mean, sure, you aren't _really_ affecting the world in any lasting way, but branching results and unfolding local events mean there is a strong illusion of importance, particularly given people are unlikely to sit in one area for a very long time and see events recycle.
Stuff like this creates the possibility of endgame activities beyond 'get Fire Token Magister to go into Fire Depths to get Fire Token Excelsior to go into Fire Pits to get Fire Token Supremo to go into Fire Delve to get Fire Token Sisyphean to...'
Mind you, GW2 then proceeded to add that sort of thing with Fractal Dungeon. Meh.
I mean, one of my great disappointments with STO was that pre-Season 7, I mostly liked endgame -- I was 'done' getting most gear. Yes, there was STFs to get the ultra gear, but I played just enough to get the almost-best gear, and I could kick back, knowing the slight difference wasn't that significant.
What was 'left to do'? Well, I could do missions, Foundry missions, PvP, do elite STFs for the fun of it (and if stuff dropped, cool), and so on.
I LIKED that.
Then came changes that gave people Reputation. On the plus side, I liked the fact that getting endgame gear was no longer utterly random -- it was a clear progression. On the negative side, it was this massive time/money sink to do 'endgame stuff.'
It felt like my fun was horribly narrowed to MUST GRIND REPUTATION. And fleet stuff, dear jeebus. Being in small fleets and actually trying to do fleet projects is like having a tennis ball gun on rapid fire aimed at your jimmies.
Ultimately, after having a frustrating time with it and a massive rageout, I'm back to where I was previously -- I'll tinker along with Reputation in no particular hurry, and enjoy a relaxed endgame that doesn't have to feel like a job.
And I'm pleased with STO endgame, because, ultimately, there's lots of stuff to do -- work on Reputation, do STFs, do other instances/actions, pvp, Foundry, redo (or get around to) core missions, do explorations, work on fleet projects (if you happen to be in a decent-sized fleet), experiment with builds and gear, and myriad fiddly things with duty officers.
That's, really, my ideal endgame -- there's nothing that will drastically balloon my power level compared to other folks and, thus, makes me feel like my fun is dictated, but there's plenty of content that has some reward.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
@the OP and others who feel the same:
I feel the same as zahinder feels about STO but with champions. Yup I've got two characters who have the gear and builds that other people have used to solo not just things like Vikorin's Temple, but multiple Shadow Collosus. I still die using them on normal content but you know, hey, that's how it goes. 1337 I am not.
But I've also got a bunch of other character ideas I'm goofing around with. Some of them will take me well into mid 2014 to hit level 40, and they are already out of the tutorial today. I'm cool with that. And by the time I get there I'll have seen all the missions 300 times instead of the 20 I already have. I'm cool with that too.
More would be great. But I'm having fun right now. I know great people, some from City, many long time Champs peeps. I don't need CO to be City. Yes I miss it, but it's gone. I don't need it to be like WOW, because I quit that for a reason. And all the others I've played over the years. It is Champions, that is what it is supposed to be. It has already achieved this. I can choose to enjoy it or not. You can choose to enjoy it or not. The devs can choose to make it better or not.
Right now, it is good and I have fun with it. And I hope you do too.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
It seems like endgame is a necessary evil. I agree with the implications at the end of the article that innovation can help the end game not be so hated by players.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
It was a good read, but TBH, nothing new to me. At the same time, the devs are sometimes guilty of the opposite - putting out repetitive quests, (kill X mobs, turn it in, kill Y mobs, turn it in), and attaching copy-paste rewards at the end, (random green item A, random green item B, random drop-box C, or token of type D).
It goes both ways - if they properly playtest new content to figure out how long said content takes to do, they can come out with a proper risk vs reward and reward vs time balance. Make full use of your free playtesters and LISTEN to them - the ones interested in testing the new content are likely the most experienced players anyway.
All too often do we see the side of the argument where power A overperforms and gets reduced in effectiveness too far, but power B that was *always* underperforming rarely gets the buff it so badly needs.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Now, if that's your sole concept of "endgame", then count me out, thanks. Like I said, I played a game that was designed that way. I stopped, because after a certain point, I wasn't having any fun. If I liked treadmills, I'd be working out, not sitting here playing on my computer. It would be better for me, too - but not fun.
(As for your other challenge, to the best of my knowledge the only game that's ever added your version of "endgame" after launch was CoX. I can't say it was that specifically that brought it to an end - but since NCSoft never said exactly what their issue was, I can't say that it wasn't that, either...)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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