test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Missing the MMO niche.
oneheadedboy
Posts: 85 Arc User
Hi everyone. Some of you might know me- I'm a COH player. I beat this game in about 3 months. I got to max level, got all the best gear, got high enough rank mods in all my slots to solo whatever I wanted.
I basically did in this game in three months what would have taken me 6 months in COH, playing casually as I did here.
This game, as I see it, is just doing it wrong, by good ol' fashioned MMO standards. Cryptic obviously can't afford to innovate here.
I know that we're not going to see CO getting the dev love that COH got. That's a given by now. So no new zones every few months, no Villain player characters, no incalculable amounts of potential level up paths.
What this game needs to do is just implement a nice end game system with a gear treadmill. Set up some fundamental raid mechanics. Get your tech for 30+ PC's in a group. WoW came out like 9 years ago and they locked it down.. Can't be hard.
Think of it this way... A gear treadmill is EASY. It also gives people a reason to actually keep playing the game. The 30 second alerts with 3 people are dumb. Spend some time and tech on raids with difficulty sliders.
Make a few of those every 4 months. Sell individual passes for access and include them in the sub perks. Power creep will happen, so keep a balance Dev handy. Bam. You have an actual MMO.
Also inb4 RP'ers cry about challenging content and how costume contests>raids. This is still, last I checked, not the Sims but an MMO with actual gameplay (inb4inb4 that's debatable)
I basically did in this game in three months what would have taken me 6 months in COH, playing casually as I did here.
This game, as I see it, is just doing it wrong, by good ol' fashioned MMO standards. Cryptic obviously can't afford to innovate here.
I know that we're not going to see CO getting the dev love that COH got. That's a given by now. So no new zones every few months, no Villain player characters, no incalculable amounts of potential level up paths.
What this game needs to do is just implement a nice end game system with a gear treadmill. Set up some fundamental raid mechanics. Get your tech for 30+ PC's in a group. WoW came out like 9 years ago and they locked it down.. Can't be hard.
Think of it this way... A gear treadmill is EASY. It also gives people a reason to actually keep playing the game. The 30 second alerts with 3 people are dumb. Spend some time and tech on raids with difficulty sliders.
Make a few of those every 4 months. Sell individual passes for access and include them in the sub perks. Power creep will happen, so keep a balance Dev handy. Bam. You have an actual MMO.
Also inb4 RP'ers cry about challenging content and how costume contests>raids. This is still, last I checked, not the Sims but an MMO with actual gameplay (inb4inb4 that's debatable)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by oneheadedboy on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
If you think RPGs are something to "beat", perhaps you'd be more comfortable with Halo.
Plainly, even those of us who are dissatisfied with this game are looking for more than the same-old-same-old that's been de rigueur for MMOs since EverQuest. Running the same treadmill as everyone else will quickly lead people to ask why they should be running your treadmill in particular, when the other folks have been working on their treadmill for the better part of a decade. We come here because this isn't just another copy-paste grindfest.
Again, if you like grindfests, there are plenty of them out there. Don't let us stop you from looking for them. But please, don't try to tell us what we "really" want, or that this game needs to be just like every other cookie-cutter game out there in order to "succeed".
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Real Soviet Damage PRIMUS Page | Soviet Might Build | Artwork of my Characters | I wrote a book called "The Ring of Void"
LOL
You sure did beat this game.
You sure did.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2009/07/loyola_university_professor_be.html
CellarRat33 :: formerly Bsquared
***
"The great thing about glory unending is that it's dirt cheap!" - Tateklys
From the Adventures of Thundrax (canadascott)
***
That's not beating the game. That's hitting level 40.
If he is who I think he is he's lost a head in the transition.
As for treadmills, (until the post-Alpha Incarnate system) CoH and now CO don't have one, which is why I play(ed) CoH and CO. Six days of UNITY 1, the rank 5 mods I collected while getting to 40 and that character is good to go. I like that. I don't need a gear treadmill to feel superior to someone to enjoy the game.
1. Create more characters, one for each powerset. Hybrid characters do not count.
2. Completely level each character to 40.
3. Unlock the hidden powerset known simply as 'God-tier Telepathy.'
4. Create a new character using the God-tier Telepathy powerset.
5. Defeat the Elite Four: Vikorin, Therakiel, Shadow Destroyer and The Bronze King. Become a Champions Online Master.
6. Venture to the top of Kigatilik's mountain. There you will find Red, the Ultimate Pet Master. Battle each of his pets and enjoy the credits after you have won. Congratulations, you are now the Champion of Champions!
Brilliant!
"Sorry Superman, you can't come with us to fight villains today, your gear isn't good enough."
Yeah right.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Superman already HAS the top end gear. He's good to go!
You're a lunatic with a mad man's dream of a milk proof robot!
___________________________________________________
[/quote]
You guys kill me.
The OP deserves more serious responses than that. Just a few weeks ago i saw players crying bloody murder on the PTS forums about "QQ we don't want to be SKed to 30 for the new alert."
"We want it to be lv 40 and have level 40 content that is challenging to a level caped build with level caped gear, and have rewards that are desirable to level caped players." (ie end game).
When Robobo was here It was stated the the reitemization in on alert was leading into an end game system, and every one was cool with that. It was even asked about in the latest Ask Cryptic.
Now a new(ish) player comes here and suggest Gasp... adding end game to an MMO and hes a troll??
This community is starting to fall off
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
I can tell you're new if you're saying this.. see how you feel in 6 more months
Just because classic end game systems are flawed does not mean that NO end game system is better.
For example. DCUO is based on end game. Many of the complaints you have with the system can be found on the DCUO forums. But DCUO is doing much better than CO, WOW is more successful than CO, EQ is more successful than CO. As imperfect as end game systems are, people like them, they keep players engaged, and they allow you to continue to work on your favorite toon over time.
This game does not have end game, but if it did, how would that stop you from enjoying the game as you do today? Couldnt you just ignore it? Some people dont like the alert system, but all they have to do is not queue.
I have yet to see a convincing argument that end game would be bad for the community or bad for the game financially.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
We want more stuff to do at level 40.
Implementing that does not require a gear treadmill.
WoW-style raiding is not the only form of endgame.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I've always thought "endgame" to describe the raid-till-you-die gear treadmill as a bit of an oxymoron. "Endgames" like that are not the end of the game, there's always gear with one higher iLevel added.
Although calling them "Fool's Errands" would hurt some egos.
CO doesn't have a large enough community to support the player segregation caused by gear gaps. There ya go.
That being said, CO needs more of everything--content, maps, missions, variety, endgame, etc. etc.--so I support his idea because this game needs love any and every way it can get it or it ain't gonna be around before too long.
Which would crush me because it's my new home and dripping with potential.
DCUO doesn't have an "endgame" anymore than CO does. They have more content at max level, but you don't win the game when you complete it.
CO has a series of missions and such for level 40 only characters, but I am guessing the OP never did any of that.
I think we have yet another "I finished EVERY MISSION" person who is either lying or sadly mistaken.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Pure speculation. You don't know what the end game plan that robobo had looked like so you are in no place to say what the outcome would be if it were to be implemented.
Keep in mind that whatever endgame that would be implemented in CO would be built with CO in mind. You cant be serious.
EDIT:
Clearly you and i have different ideas of what end game is. Would you be kind enough to define what end game is to you so i can put the above quote in its proper context?
EDIT2:
just googled "wow endgame" and "dcuo endgame" and there are too many wikis and links to link...
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Nice word play but endgame is just a term. Your sharp enough to know that.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
That is my definition.
I think some use "endgame" to mean "max level missions".
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
I know im probably being trolled, but its a relaxing sunday so ill allow it.
Here is a ign youtube video with DCUOs game directer going into detail about DCUOs "end game"... i guess he was mistaken.:rolleyes:
The wow wiki has a whole guide to "end game" man, those guys must be confused.:rolleyes:
roughbearmattach you better go contact these guys and straighten them out before this nonsense spreads......
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
I'm no mmo vet (i have only played this and COX) but i have never seen that definition used in the context of mmos. That sounds like your talking about console games.
You may be new to mmos and if so maybe im over reacting. Here is a quote from the WOW wiki which expresses my general understanding of "end game" in the context of mmos. People say end game is a treadmill but as pointed out above, leveling is a treadmill too, and in a game with an SK system, the power gap that results from them can be mitigated.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
*Flashback wavy effect*
Endgame in those major MMO's is frustrating. Now, lemme tell you how this CAN work- and DOES work, many times.
The raids tend to be a migraine. Your class and spec has a lot to do with you getting into a good group. Mind you, DPS characters are a dime a dozen.
You know those kids that screech at each other on XBox live? They do the same in WoW. Over loot. It's worse. I've had 12 year olds call me things I didn't say when I was in the Marines.
In a nutshell, Endgame in other games as I've seen it:
PvP: As I've seen many of the PvPers' attitudes here on CO, I can tell you I'll GLADLY pass. I don't care if I end up being a totall PvP badass magically overnight, I won't do it because of their attitude. I'll PvP with my friends and that's it. I don't want CO's PvP, as broken and screwed up as it is, getting any more focus (beyond balancing and rewards- I'll honor that). If that's the 'end game' we're looking at, I'll pass.
Raids: I'd do this, but I can honestly tell you that I won't spend hours and hours on repetitive raids to get something that helps me a little bit more when I do repetitive raids again.
What WOULD I like? Stories. Some decent gear drops. SOMETHING.
Otherwise, I don't really care.
Silly grandpa
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
CO has some of that, but not a lot. There are the UNITY and UNITY missions, plus NemCon, plus a few lairs. At that point, folks can also grind to get very high-end gear.
Yes, a dedicated gamer can reach 40 and complete the endgame content quite quickly. That doesn't mean you "won". It means you missed a lot of the game, such as most of the missions.
CO is not a great game for someone who wants max-level missions. I agree.
It is a great game for those that want maximum character customization, ease of play, and superheroes.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's him too. And he was a troll on the CoH boards as well.
Lay off the Superadine, OP.
That said, the troll does have a point that this game's severely lacking in continued content updates.
I played CoH since launch. I RPed for the last 5 years of that.
I remember you from the forums. I had some respect for you.
But what you just said... That made me lose every last shred of respect I had for you.
You're not even worth listening to after that. You obviously have no idea what RPers are about if you think we whine about a challenge and only gain enjoyment from costume contests.
It's amazing how you killed your entire argument by throwing something totally derogatory out for no reason.
If some people want to sit around and play paper dolls I'm all for them. But If I log in and that's ALL I have left to do I should be playing SuperSims.. not Champions Online.
Forgive me for wanting to role-play in character while actually fighting against epic odds and challenges as a superhero. *EYEROLL*
So, you level a character, and get to level 40. There is no reason to do anything else.
It has been shown that people like to get rewards for doing things. It's kind of the whole reason MMOs exist. "Do this, get that." Be it XP, costume unlocks, items, etc... In Champions, however, it's a shallow reward. There is no REASON to get better gear.
I had all of zone chat against me one day a while back. I had made the statement that there is no reason to get better gear in Champions. My premise was that if you are level 40, and have all level 40 green quality gear, you can do anything in the game. I still hold to that to this day.
I don't know about other people's opinions, but I like accomplishing something. I like a challenge. I like earning rewards that matter for doing just that. I need a more fulfilling reason to do something than "just because". And, right now, that's the only reason to do anything in Champions.
I have leveled many alts, unlocked lots of costume pieces, done every piece of content in the game at least twice. The main reason that I didn't do some of those more than twice was because there was no reward worth my time.
Cryptic, in general, has had that problem for awhile. At least in Star Trek Online and Champions Online. They are not very good at "effort vs. reward". You can do something difficult and/or time-consuming and get crap. But, then do a shorter, less difficult, mission and get a better reward.
So, yeah, I would love for something more to do at endgame than running stuff "just because". Compelling story goes so far. There has to be a reason, and a sense of accomplishment, to do something over and over.
I would love tiered content. Stuff that requires you do X before you can do Y before you can do Z... Yes, there will be people that don't want to do that. They will still have what they have now, and seem to be happy with.
A fast content based game with both deterministic and random rewards(unlike phantasy star online's rng or nothing system) that had an increasing amount of content you can solo or team in fast 30 min to an hour increments in teams no more than 18, i think co can do it because co already is nearly doing it with harbringer and gravitar. and the end game stuff allowed you to fight at your full power with relatively higher difficulty. I think the game could have something very similar to what we already have with harbinger would have that feel without requiring multi-hour raids with groups that were so large they punished anyone who didn't want to join a guild .from what i understand, wow has been moving away from their initial version of endgame themselves with smaller, shorter and more deterministic content.
but, lets be honest, the elephant in the room is that co at its current state would not be able to build a series of incentives and challenges to justify a separate system. given how we are currently grinding painfully through the vehicle drag with a small amount of actual ne content, it just seems unrealistic.
difficult mission-->poor reward
easy mission-->good reward
CO does this.
A lot.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
But didn't you quit this game like 6 years ago?
>Implying that The Sims isn't an actual game with an actual gameplay mechanic of some sort.
inb4 more illogical statements.
That is what I said.
But I suppose the key word from my quote was "I had some respect for you."
Laughed off of Freedom after the first time you stood in the green stuff on MoKeyes I take it? Either that or never even tried. Went back to RPing?:p ;D
Tell me what else to do without pseudo-artsy nonsense and I'll jump right back in. I like games that have actual stuff to do though. Not repeating entrylevel noob nonsense over and over for all eternity. This game doesn't even match the SLIGHT degree of gaming Darwinism that COH at least made available at the high end.
LOL people think the Sims is a game worth taking seriously here. I rest my case.
Dammit, how can I like you so much in game but disagree with you so much on the forums?
THE REASON WE HAVE NO PLAYER BASE IS BECAUSE THEY ALL LEAVE BECAUSE THE GAME IS TOO EASY. IF YOU WANT A SOLO GAME THAT WORKS AS AN MMO, GO PLAY DRAGON AGE.
I really can't put that more plainly. We don't need trinity to work here, but I soloed therakiel. I took my roommate into this game from other mmos for a *month*, and he was soloing vikorin. And therakiel. I sat back and watched. Nemcon? My *dps* tanks that without her health bar moving. Guess what he's playing now? Not this game, and it's not for a lack of customization. He loved that. This is the case with *every single player I have turned on to this game*. We're talking 70-80 people. And now we have even stronger gear, but the pve is exactly the friggin same.
Consider what you're doing, when you want to just solo everything. You're killing social content. And by proxy, you're killing the concept of an mmo. *Multiplayer*
This mindset is killing this game.
I mean no offense, but seriously. If you want a single player rpg, there are a lot of them out there. This is not a single player rpg. We do not need trinity, but we do need team-centric content without silly gimmicks like "use the mirror before this guy solos that content".
difficulty =/= grind.
Take harbinger. That's a good fight. you can't solo it, because it'll flat out kill you. And it's *fun!*. Gets people talking, involved. It's a good challenge. It's not *boring*. Your team matters. And do you know why it's failing? content nerfers have murdered any challenge in this game, so when they actually get a taste of the real deal, they LEAVE THE ALERT AND GO ELSEWHERE. Is this a fault of the alert? No, it's pretty well received. This is a fault with the people who have been pushing for easy content since launch.
This is the reason this game is languishing.
So how's that elite setting giving better gear working nowadays? Anyone? Oh, that's right, hard work doesn't ****ing matter anymore.
RIP Caine
I don't know what his attitude was like on the CoX forums so I don't care about the degree of comparison. Focusing on the here and now, he openly discriminates against the RP-portion of the playerbase and was quick to mock them. Even now he continues to do so. That attitude enough speaks volumes about his character.
If you want to defend that attitude on some level then go ahead and get lumped together with him.
If you know me from the COH boards you know that I really don't care if people like me or not. Some of my best in game COH friends RP'ed and I ripped on them for it all the time. That includes Dechs if you remember him, and the math folks loved him just as much as the RP folks. If he could still be my buddy and put up with me ripping on RP I'm pretty sure you can too.
This game's very rp heavy. I'm with you on the difficulty, but the 2 don't have to be mutually exclusive. In fact? Hell, I'd *kill* to see a game where rpers have to back up their mary-sue tendencies with real numbers. Oh, you're a cosmic terror that can destroy universes? Let's spar.
RIP Caine
I agree. In COH we had Virtue and Freedom. I've always been for letting the scrubs play pretend in peace while the people who actually played the game raked it in. Let people play how they want to play. The trouble here is that there's nothing to do for the folks who actually want to keep playing, unless they want to go virtuemode.
Well obviously it's stupid to think that The Sims is a game worth taking seriously, especially when it's one of the best-selling game franchises in the history of video gaming. Surely that fact alone doesn't mean that millions of people actually do take it seriously enough as a game. No siree.
Please, keep making these hilarious hole-ridden arguments with an added dash of snobbery. From the looks of it you're doing well to get your own thread locked. No huge loss really.
I'm just incapable of taking anyone seriously who thinks that The Sims should be considered a legit game. I'm sorry. But that **** is weak. If that's what you want CO to aspire towards, you are a part of the problem. I never like to say this, but I think that some people could actually benefit from playing WoW.
And then there are those of us who play in rppvp servers.
Hi, I'm taco. I'm one of those.
The funny bit about CO is that a good portion of the rp community duels. Pvp in this game is a joke from rewards, but the experience is still fantastic. 2 40s going at it, with themed powers? You might laugh at theme, but I've seen it do some scary stuff.
But I'm with you on the challenge part of things. I don't wanna pretend to be strong in game. I want a challenge, and to feel heroic. Spider man has never facerolled something meant for the avengers.
RIP Caine
PVP is better here. PVP in COH was nerfed into lolstatus years ago. But they share one thing in common- PVP is ultimately irrelevant in both games so who cares how good it is?
Now it seems to me that you have not played any other MMOG and in particular CoX.
Everyone of them is solo friendly and CoX in paricular was very easy to solo, the istances were automatically adjusted to the number of players so, with the excepition of the task forces mish and in the latter days of the game of the "league" massive teams of 40 players, everything else was soloable and you could have "beated " the game without ever having teamed a single time.
The reason that teams were very popular in CoX were the same that the Alerts are here: you could get much more xp that way
Oh the bigotry. Tsk.
I said nothing about wanting CO to aspire towards The Sims type of gameplay. That's a nice strawman you made there. I only view it as a legitimate style of gameplay like any other.