I think TT is very cool and really appreciate his good vibes and efforts.
However...
No, we are not. We're seeing more promises and very sporadic, ornamental development.
I don't care about carrier defense or Lemurian Leviathan. Talk to me in a few months.
So you want us to lie to people?
Look, I'll give CO the same kind of support that CO has given me -- 'I really like you and I'm sending you vibes and I'm going to get around to paying for stuff someday. But I have other projects that really need my money, I'm sure you understand.'
And i will get "You" and your little dog too? Eeeee heeeeee heeeee!
I'm sorry if pragmatism and not being willfully blind is seen as 'flooding the forum with negativity.'
I'm still on the forum because I hope things change. I hope that, some day, Cryptic's well-wishes actually translates to action. I hope that the success of Neverwinter will spill over and PWE will consider gambling on reviving Champions Online.
That doesn't mean I have to act like a chump, though.
As I've said before, this game is never going to be supported to the extent that I'd like, and that's something I'll live with. I do hope we can get a Foundry at some point, I do want to see some support and investment made in it, and if it's no longer becomes profitable to do so, please tell me. Communicating with the player base is not always fun, but it's still essential.
Also, if I ever quit this game (or any other sub-A level title) and I feel the need to return to post on the official forums and insult those players who are still enjoying themselves or who still have hope of development even after I have lost all faith, please slap me. There are more important things than being "right" and speaking "truth", especially when "right" and "truth" are often a cover for craven displays of ego. I should hope to have better and more positive things to do with my time than that.
Also, if I ever quit this game (or any other sub-A level title) and I feel the need to return to post on the official forums and insult those players who are still enjoying themselves or who still have hope of development even after I have lost all faith, please slap me. There are more important things than being "right" and speaking "truth", especially when "right" and "truth" are often a cover for craven displays of ego. I should hope to have better and more positive things to do with my time than that.
Also, if I ever quit this game (or any other sub-A level title) and I feel the need to return to post on the official forums and insult those players who are still enjoying themselves or who still have hope of development even after I have lost all faith, please slap me. There are more important things than being "right" and speaking "truth", especially when "right" and "truth" are often a cover for craven displays of ego. I should hope to have better and more positive things to do with my time than that.
Can I get an amen, brothers and sisters? Yeah!
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Wesley specifically addressed other forum folks and said 'your concerns are unwarranted, see, everything is cool.'
I addressed his points and stated my disagreement, and some of why I disagree.
For that I'm an intrusive monster sh*ing up the forums?
Look, if you don't want people to disagree with you, don't address them.
I've said, frequently, that I agree with some stuff (like Alerts), disagree with others (vehicles, dudes, really?), and would knife a hobo for CO Foundry (I find it so hard to even do anything in STO Foundry because I keep sighing loudly and looking over at Champions).
But there's a pattern of stuff not happening. I'll be happy to sing Cryptic's praises if that changes, and I hope it does.
Is that really being a pessimistic dirtbag?
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Actually nevermind. No other company acts like this and keeps customers. Enjoy your Stockholm experience.
I kind of feel like, compared to the long time of absoloutely nothing... lately TrailTurtle has been trying to create a line of communication. I kind of get the feeling that it's not just a matter of him walking over to the devs, asking stuff, and then bringing it to us... in fact if what I know of programmers and artists holds true, it's probably a lot like pulling teeth... and then you have to verify that what you actually got was a tooth.
So no, we may not have the open line of communication we want just yet... but we do have effort... one brave hero, named TrailTurtle, tenaciously fighting the forces of darkness. I'm putting my faith in him, he seems strong and manly.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Wesley specifically addressed other forum folks and said 'your concerns are unwarranted, see, everything is cool.'
I addressed his points and stated my disagreement, and some of why I disagree.
For that I'm an intrusive monster sh*ing up the forums?
Look, if you don't want people to disagree with you, don't address them.
I've said, frequently, that I agree with some stuff (like Alerts), disagree with others (vehicles, dudes, really?), and would knife a hobo for CO Foundry (I find it so hard to even do anything in STO Foundry because I keep sighing loudly and looking over at Champions).
But there's a pattern of stuff not happening. I'll be happy to sing Cryptic's praises if that changes, and I hope it does.
Is that really being a pessimistic dirtbag?
Not anymore, no.
Just a lint bag now. I hear and understand what you're saying. Without the venom, it's easier to be objective. But, the knife a hobo comment...it's not that serious. Right?
Maybe a Kardashian...but a Hobo? C'mon. They might smell a bit, but what has one ever done to you? Or do you have something you would like to talk about?
So no, we may not have the open line of communication we want just yet... but we do have effort... one brave hero, named TrailTurtle, tenaciously fighting the forces of darkness. I'm putting my faith in him, he seems strong and manly.
I will also note that I'm REALLY positive about the fact that the CO Devs actually pay attention to test server feedback, which is in stark contrast to STO.
STO might get a lot more attention and resources, but their QA process... hoo boy.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
As I've said before, this game is never going to be supported to the extent that I'd like, and that's something I'll live with. I do hope we can get a Foundry at some point, I do want to see some support and investment made in it, and if it's no longer becomes profitable to do so, please tell me. Communicating with the player base is not always fun, but it's still essential.
Also, if I ever quit this game (or any other sub-A level title) and I feel the need to return to post on the official forums and insult those players who are still enjoying themselves or who still have hope of development even after I have lost all faith, please slap me. There are more important things than being "right" and speaking "truth", especially when "right" and "truth" are often a cover for craven displays of ego. I should hope to have better and more positive things to do with my time than that.
So, that was probably the best comment in the history of this forum. Amen!
Wesley specifically addressed other forum folks and said 'your concerns are unwarranted, see, everything is cool.'
I addressed his points and stated my disagreement, and some of why I disagree.
For that I'm an intrusive monster sh*ing up the forums?
Look, if you don't want people to disagree with you, don't address them.
I've said, frequently, that I agree with some stuff (like Alerts), disagree with others (vehicles, dudes, really?), and would knife a hobo for CO Foundry (I find it so hard to even do anything in STO Foundry because I keep sighing loudly and looking over at Champions).
But there's a pattern of stuff not happening. I'll be happy to sing Cryptic's praises if that changes, and I hope it does.
Is that really being a pessimistic dirtbag?
Woahh.... rein your horses. At no point did I ever said that your's or any others' concerns are not warranted. I said there is progress in content and the meeting did go down. It may not be the level of your satisfaction but it is a bit of improvement and my point is in celebrating small successes but we hope to see more.
So a buncha guys are planning and setting out a system in which allows them to communicate better with us and interact more with us.
Its called a Forum. Its not some complex machine! Its a ####ing forum!
REPLY BUTTON is right down there V
if you need me to create a user guide on how to use the forum...you shouldnt be a game developer. You dont need meetings, you dont need to create top secret plans and strategies on HOW to click the reply button, the reply button is incapable of launching counter attacks or deflecting your mouse clicks, all you need to do is left click the button that says "Reply" and type "I exist, and i am doing X task right now" into the white box.
After 10 months of being AWOL my imagination is running wild with whats going on there in the studio...i can see bins and desks completely cluttered full of McDonalds and toilets full of ginormous craps. Which right now, kinda feels like our money has gone.
all you need to do is left click the button that says "Reply" and type "I exist, and i am doing X task right now" into the white box.
The problem with that is that many studios have non-disclosure clauses in their contracts, and posting "I am doing X task" without permission could get them fired. In order to resist the temptation to tell us about all the awesome things that are planned, both to avoid termination for violating non-disclosure and to avoid the rage of "hey guys, remember that super cool thing we were working on? Well, it doesn't work the way we expected, and making it work would cost more resources than the studio is willing to pay, so... it's canceled. ", many devs will just avoid outing themselves publicly.
That's why we have people like TrailTurtle. He knows what can and cannot be discussed and revealed. He is also the one to carry the target when the slings start to fly.
Anyone who played City of Heroes: Remember Issue 13? Castle was talking PVP changes and improvements with people for a while, then he started the changes, then NCSoft said "Hey, nobody pays for PVP. Go make new powersets that we can sell." Because he had talked with us, HE was the one blamed for ruining PVP, and was instantly a pariah. Eventually he quit.
Do we want to do that here? Some dev shows up and tells us all the awesome things they're working on, PWE pulls the plug, the forums attack the dev who couldn't follow through, through no fault of their own, the dev resigns, and maybe gets replaced by someone who doesn't know the codebase, so can't produce content nearly as fast - if they get replaced at all.
Let the team do their jobs. The devs' job is to make the game, not talk to you. That's TT's job.
_________________________________________________ @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
They aren't saying anything because they either aren't working on something or they have something big along the lines of the next cash in that is on par with Vehicles.
I'd certainly like an update that doesn't require pay to play and is used to encourage keeping the players subscribed.
What comes after the Harbinger and Vehicles? I'd certainly hope its the Lair and Nemesis reviews. Maybe Sidekicks or at least Auras.
It's taking Cryptic as long to figure out how to tell us good news as it takes most people to find the least painful way to break bad news. I'm equally frightened and amazed by this.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
It's taking Cryptic as long to figure out how to tell us good news as it takes most people to find the least painful way to break bad news. I'm equally frightened and amazed by this.
Or, another possibility, just to bring it to the table... they had the meeting, and after a half hour of awkward silence, realized they had nothing to tell us. Now they're just waiting for us to get the hint.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
P.S. I had the meeting with the dev team and it went really well. We came up with a couple good ideas and hashed out how we could release them in a way that made sense. There were a couple ideas that we looked at and shot down because of infeasibility, but a majority of them were tentatively greenlit. The next step for this is on me.
Or, another possibility, just to bring it to the table... they had the meeting, and after a half hour of awkward silence, realized they had nothing to tell us. Now they're just waiting for us to get the hint.
Re-reading what was written, "A couple of good ideas" doesn't sound very "epic" or "state of the game-y".. but what was the reason for the meeting if not to give information to the players?
How valid is the information weeks later?
Also "a couple ideas" sounds like small change. Brainstorms with 10 or more people usually have more than "a couple ideas". So don't expect anything epic.. it's likely still 1.5 devs are on Champions-Online
Also, unless I'm mistaken about TT's duties, the fact that the next step is on him suggests that this is ENTIRELY about 'gathering information and communication' rather than, you know, any actual development.
Which is cool, we definitely need much better communication. So that's nice.
Just don't run away with it into hoping for deep substantive game development -- I doubt that's even on the crystal ball until PWE sees how NW pans out.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Comments
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
And i will get "You" and your little dog too? Eeeee heeeeee heeeee!
Amen!
.
Also, if I ever quit this game (or any other sub-A level title) and I feel the need to return to post on the official forums and insult those players who are still enjoying themselves or who still have hope of development even after I have lost all faith, please slap me. There are more important things than being "right" and speaking "truth", especially when "right" and "truth" are often a cover for craven displays of ego. I should hope to have better and more positive things to do with my time than that.
I said, *if* I ever quit the game. No preemptive slapping.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Wesley specifically addressed other forum folks and said 'your concerns are unwarranted, see, everything is cool.'
I addressed his points and stated my disagreement, and some of why I disagree.
For that I'm an intrusive monster sh*ing up the forums?
Look, if you don't want people to disagree with you, don't address them.
I've said, frequently, that I agree with some stuff (like Alerts), disagree with others (vehicles, dudes, really?), and would knife a hobo for CO Foundry (I find it so hard to even do anything in STO Foundry because I keep sighing loudly and looking over at Champions).
But there's a pattern of stuff not happening. I'll be happy to sing Cryptic's praises if that changes, and I hope it does.
Is that really being a pessimistic dirtbag?
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I kind of feel like, compared to the long time of absoloutely nothing... lately TrailTurtle has been trying to create a line of communication. I kind of get the feeling that it's not just a matter of him walking over to the devs, asking stuff, and then bringing it to us... in fact if what I know of programmers and artists holds true, it's probably a lot like pulling teeth... and then you have to verify that what you actually got was a tooth.
So no, we may not have the open line of communication we want just yet... but we do have effort... one brave hero, named TrailTurtle, tenaciously fighting the forces of darkness. I'm putting my faith in him, he seems strong and manly.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person/
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Just a lint bag now. I hear and understand what you're saying. Without the venom, it's easier to be objective. But, the knife a hobo comment...it's not that serious. Right?
Maybe a Kardashian...but a Hobo? C'mon. They might smell a bit, but what has one ever done to you? Or do you have something you would like to talk about?
Hmmm
sob
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I put my faith in Blast Hardcheese.
STO might get a lot more attention and resources, but their QA process... hoo boy.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I think someones really need to start listening....
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
So, that was probably the best comment in the history of this forum. Amen!
It takes me under 15 seconds to digest posts and less than 2 minutes total to reply.
I find it absolutely humorous that some of you ascribe mental illness to people bassed on a post.
I just wanted to share that. If you think I am referijg to you, I probably am.
Looking forward to future announcements.
Woahh.... rein your horses. At no point did I ever said that your's or any others' concerns are not warranted. I said there is progress in content and the meeting did go down. It may not be the level of your satisfaction but it is a bit of improvement and my point is in celebrating small successes but we hope to see more.
Here's a thread with Emmert promising better communication from a while back:
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=99350
I could fill a 30 post thread full of promises broken
Thank you.
Its called a Forum. Its not some complex machine! Its a ####ing forum!
REPLY BUTTON is right down there V
if you need me to create a user guide on how to use the forum...you shouldnt be a game developer. You dont need meetings, you dont need to create top secret plans and strategies on HOW to click the reply button, the reply button is incapable of launching counter attacks or deflecting your mouse clicks, all you need to do is left click the button that says "Reply" and type "I exist, and i am doing X task right now" into the white box.
After 10 months of being AWOL my imagination is running wild with whats going on there in the studio...i can see bins and desks completely cluttered full of McDonalds and toilets full of ginormous craps. Which right now, kinda feels like our money has gone.
The problem with that is that many studios have non-disclosure clauses in their contracts, and posting "I am doing X task" without permission could get them fired. In order to resist the temptation to tell us about all the awesome things that are planned, both to avoid termination for violating non-disclosure and to avoid the rage of "hey guys, remember that super cool thing we were working on? Well, it doesn't work the way we expected, and making it work would cost more resources than the studio is willing to pay, so... it's canceled. ", many devs will just avoid outing themselves publicly.
That's why we have people like TrailTurtle. He knows what can and cannot be discussed and revealed. He is also the one to carry the target when the slings start to fly.
Anyone who played City of Heroes: Remember Issue 13? Castle was talking PVP changes and improvements with people for a while, then he started the changes, then NCSoft said "Hey, nobody pays for PVP. Go make new powersets that we can sell." Because he had talked with us, HE was the one blamed for ruining PVP, and was instantly a pariah. Eventually he quit.
Do we want to do that here? Some dev shows up and tells us all the awesome things they're working on, PWE pulls the plug, the forums attack the dev who couldn't follow through, through no fault of their own, the dev resigns, and maybe gets replaced by someone who doesn't know the codebase, so can't produce content nearly as fast - if they get replaced at all.
Let the team do their jobs. The devs' job is to make the game, not talk to you. That's TT's job.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
I don't need the specifics of what they are working upon, I want to know that they are working...
on Champions Online.
Right now, the silence is deafening.
CellarRat33 :: formerly Bsquared
***
"The great thing about glory unending is that it's dirt cheap!" - Tateklys
From the Adventures of Thundrax (canadascott)
***
I'd certainly like an update that doesn't require pay to play and is used to encourage keeping the players subscribed.
What comes after the Harbinger and Vehicles? I'd certainly hope its the Lair and Nemesis reviews. Maybe Sidekicks or at least Auras.
That could explain a lot of your aggression issues and erratic posts.
Maybe less CO more AA.
Why is there YET no dev update?
It's taking Cryptic as long to figure out how to tell us good news as it takes most people to find the least painful way to break bad news. I'm equally frightened and amazed by this.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
that or the devs that speak has been replaced by mutes
You're thinking of the Japanese samurai.
Flare's guide to hosting and judging costume contests!
(link under construction)
Or, another possibility, just to bring it to the table... they had the meeting, and after a half hour of awkward silence, realized they had nothing to tell us. Now they're just waiting for us to get the hint.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
How valid is the information weeks later?
Also "a couple ideas" sounds like small change. Brainstorms with 10 or more people usually have more than "a couple ideas". So don't expect anything epic.. it's likely still 1.5 devs are on Champions-Online
Which is cool, we definitely need much better communication. So that's nice.
Just don't run away with it into hoping for deep substantive game development -- I doubt that's even on the crystal ball until PWE sees how NW pans out.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?