The Dev team wouldn't be backed up if Cryptic-Studios allocated more Devs to Champions-Online. Simple-as.
The abysmal situation is entirely of Cryptic's own making.
It aint Turtles fault as far as I have seen if he has info he shares instantly.
Git Gud M8!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Cause I'm worth it. Playing since 2009.
I understand and totally appreciate that. My criticism is not (and has never been) aimed at the Dev team who are after all trying their best.
It IS aimed directly at the executive-management team at PWE / Cryptic that seem perfectly ok with the lacklustre development and wasted potential self-evident in the title because of their lack of focus and under-investment in Champions-Online.
..........................................
Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
I understand and totally appreciate that. My criticism is not (and has never been) aimed at the Dev team who are after all trying their best.
It IS aimed directly at the executive-management team at PWE / Cryptic that seem perfectly ok with the lacklustre development and wasted potential self-evident in the title.
Fair enough my bad for reading it wrong.
Git Gud M8!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Cause I'm worth it. Playing since 2009.
Unfortunately, the dev team is backed up, so the meeting won't be happening today. That said, today I'm going to be posting a preview of what's coming out this week, including the rewards table for the next phase of the Lemurian Invasion.
What about that Lemurian Robe Costume piece mentioned in the blog?
I think this really represents the question that is on the mind of the those who wonder about the future of Champions Online. After NW, will CO get some love or will they let it continue to languish. What happens this year, what Cryptic does with CO this year will likely make or break the title.
The Dev team wouldn't be backed up if Cryptic-Studios allocated more Devs to Champions-Online. Simple-as.
The abysmal situation is entirely of Cryptic's own making.
Pretty much everything you said has been reached through logical deduction.
If only COs profits were kept into the game. Let NWO siphon from STO since its doing so well. This game doesn't need croudfunding when its already making profits. Those profits should be going back in to make it better.
That was quite a long read to reach the end of this. I only wish I saw this thread sooner. I have to first extend appreciation for TrailTurtle in being a voice here on that end of things as it does make it easier in how things are.
I have been with champions for quite a bit. I recall the beta stuff and left shortly after. Came around 2011 by friends for the free to play and really hit the nose to the grindstone in playing and subbed in a few months in from that. From that point until now there's been quite a few things that were good and others not so much.
The biggest thing that seems to happen much as others have stated is within the last year as more things have been brought out to make a quick buck than be lasting as it were. Some ideas are actually good if only they were implemented better.
First off: Devices - Strong point of the game with customization. I recall from werewolves to other transforms the use of different powers and appearance. For a silver or archtype, it can be essential if you don't have the right power. These tend to be done rather well and interesting twist at times. For a gold....not as much since you can freeform.
End of 2012/Start of 2013: Vehicles - pretty much an advanced device that follows in different powers but fully customizable depending on mods.
Verdict: The system itself in making your own is a great idea, but what makes it a poor execution is where to use them. One mission at the moment (sky command) and a possible second for the invasion with so much time in between does not make them useful. Throw in the fact that the best ones are in lockboxes (somewhat understandable as to generate sales) and variations that are decent are highly priced as to keep most away from appeal.
How to make them profitable? To get more into the system, why not throw in an earnable vehicle? It could possibly have at max 4 slots. (2 Weapon and 1 each for support and defense) As means for everyone to test out vehicles. For golds, possible free vehicle done in this merit for incentive to subbing like the hideouts a free one. Now others are seeing a reason to pay for convenience to upgrade their vehicle and take part in the newer system of content.
Also make as others have stated even take old instances and make a zone out of them, in this manner make it open ended, several mission strings, etc but a reason to actually use the vehicles in another area to explore. The moon? The battle of detroit? Endless opportunities here.
Alerts:
I do like this notion and quite frankly for a superhero mmo it's a very good idea because due to the realistic nature of such universes, emergencies happen every time of the day and anywhere they can, so in a nutshell this is good. There should be more of them for variants of each for grab, smash and burst. Radiation rumble is wonderful for a burst and allows even new users more power temporarily and get used to working on a team for a short time. There should be more developed in mind for this. This could help easily with satisfying more content if you pump more of the champions lore into introducing more villians of the universe in this manner if you cannot do lengthy content. This has been seemingly done so far in several ways so it's not bad. Also the costume unlock drops are a great idea.
This brings up the point of the events like the current one. There should be means to cycle the events in a manner to be replayable or this might be a good way to make a new "zone" that would have this content be able to be played daily somehow. Fancy a blood moon or to take on nighthawk? How about battle of detroit? (seriously for a time traveling mega event this SHOULD be done. Nothing short of epic in seeing a young defender and such in the making or the fall of the heros that died fighting destroyer.) Or smashing around clarence? Use that portal idea and make it so.
Hideouts:
What superhero doesn't have one? A good idea but needs better execution and more options to customize. How about instead of just costume unlocks but actual items can be found either on enemies or made? Or possibly purchased in the questionite store? Maybe I would like an energy reactor in my base or some other piece of working furniture? Possiblities and customization is endless. Plus it would give more to sell in that store. I would love to be able to trade things to put in hideouts as well that fit different themes.
As others have said, the idea has been wonderful for them but there needs more customization.
Questionite Store: Being able to trade a currency to get rare items or possibly use it for currency in trades to get from the z-store? I like the sound of that. It works again like hideouts to give some options, but you need to start filling more in there. I like how there are mods, vehicle powers and some costumes there including stuff from the adventure packs and the devices from the holidays are a nice touch. You laid the ground work in getting some of the old there to be purchased freely. Now there needs to be more current and new things to actually spend with questionite. How about for instance some different avian heads? It's been over a year for example and usually from the vet rewards stuff there's a variant of some sort to those that can be bought in some manner.
Even put in retrain, respec, retcon tokens and other services why not put them in the questionite store and allow us to trade them with others for a decent ratio? Factor in how much it would cost compared to z-store and go by exchange rates. Guaranteed its a surefire way to get more community involvement if you can trade service items like the service grab bag ones.
P.S. I would have to sub until december at the very least to reach 900 days and when those sets were first introduced I thought it was coming to the z-store back then. Like many others. That really hurt in where they ended up. Not cool for that one. Please fix that somehow and perhaps offer more creature heads and bodies let alone like others have suggested on the nighthawk hood. Allow beastials, monsterous, insects to use hair, helmets, etc and let us worry on the clipping. All the fun we get to experiment with.
Some of the cons:
Very low resource for silvers. Seriously? There is one thing even for any online game is that even if there is "free" players it shouldn't be placed to restrict them from being able to use a service. I mean the auction house for this. I started back here as a silver and it was frustrating at a point to which you could not really afford things in game in this manner despite how many resources you acquire. Gold members do need those to buy goods such as a reason for an economy in game to exist. Slashing the fact of them having less to sell to is a good way for them to just sit there with items found and not bother interacting with others via trades or auction house. There needs to be a flourishing economy and in a way the one here has been stagnant because of it.
It should be removed for limitations or as others have suggested a modest service fee to increase it by increments. At the very least by 100 at time and purchasable in unlimited amounts.
Legacy devices and other items done in drifter store as gamble: If I played long enough to get to making some of these I wish I did or earned them back then in how you could for "free" from the original flow of the game. Some should be reinstated as their original purpose than forced into a gamble. Maybe change the prerequisites in obtaining depending where they were, and adjust them when needed. Some are seriously overpowered and I wonder if that is intentional. The costume pieces as well should somehow get integrated as rewards like they used to be from finishing actual content. Make it incentive for those to either A) Play certain alerts as a rare drop or Actually finish strings of missions and some repeatable that might in fact drop said devices, costumes, etc. Put some of these prizes back in the fold of open missions too.
I think I summarized on most for now, I'll have to think of more later, but as someone has stated this year will make or break this game. It should hopefully be pushed in the right direction as many like myself would love to put even more into this game, and for microtransactions it's anything that can be done on a quick cheap buck helps. Anything 5 bucks or less is feasible, but start asking for 10, 18, 20 or even 30 or 50 can drive others from spending more than they would otherwise.
I think we should clarify; it's not crowdfunding, it's crowdsourcing, meaning they give the community a chance to help develop the game by making art and story and stuff. It's not about bilking the players out of more money.
So we have heard. People no longer wants to believe things which are told to them because they have been disappointed before. At the same time the same people complains about a lack of communication. And when finally the official person to communicate on forum replies, they choose not to believe. What a hard crowd to please.
The current developers were probably not on board for the previous promises. Neither was PWE or TT. What can you expect other than their words to say they will indeed look into the suggestions. I am very glad that at least someone has spoken up to say that CO is still profitable and there are not plans to close it down. Either hang around and give the game another chance or leave. No one can promise what will happen in the future.
In large, what Kenpjujitsu said makes alot of sense. F2P is obviously a profitable operational model for CO otherwise they would have remained subscription based. Repeatable sales are indeed more profitable and I believe their sales figure would have proven it. However, there is indeed a need to have more content to keep people interested such they will continue to buy the things being sold for microtransactions. The question really is what level of content will the current revenue be able to support.
Agentnx, despite your wealth of experience or knowledge about the gaming industry and how other games operate and so forth, please bear in mind that the size of the playerbase ultimately determines what kind of marketing and pricing strategy can work for the game. The lack of actual figures prevent any form of meaningful comparison.
TT, crowdsourcing is likely going to be the best win-win situation in the long run for the game. Players' created content (costumes, emotes, missions etc) can be sold to other players. While the person contributing can be rewarded in other non-monetary manner. The players get what they want and the company gets to reel in the profits. At the same time the option to create such content can be first sold like a Dungeon Master Add-On Kit. It will be good the survey the price players will be willing to pay and the cost to implement such an option.
The Dev team wouldn't be backed up if Cryptic-Studios allocated more Devs to Champions-Online. Simple-as.
The abysmal situation is entirely of Cryptic's own making.
Technically Perfect World's financial resource allocation. And the reason they moved away from Atari as I recall also had to do with money.
But I get your point (post #143 was excellent btw, everyone should read it IMHO)
The beauty of it is you don't have to reward anyone at all, they'll do all the work just to get their stuff in the game.
Well actually that's not entirely correct... Ever heard of the phrase "no such thing as a free lunch"? In this case the opportunity cost to Cryptic is in initial setup, maintenance, & quality assurance; and the community creators are essentially paid for their time & effort spent in fame. Fame counts as payment, albeit it costs Cryptic next to nothing for it -- the long-term benefits are full of win!
That's kind of the problem with Cryptic as a business. They think very short-term, it's always been about getting a quick buck and only planning an overall development direction one quarter-year ahead, planning sales only a month ahead, and planning a patch a week or two ahead. They need to plan ahead at least 4 or 8 times as far than they are currently doing... THINK LONG-TERM GROWTH, please!
People no longer want to believe things which are told to them because they have been disappointed before. At the same time the same people complains about a lack of communication. And when finally the official person to communicate on forum replies, they choose not to believe. What a hard crowd to please.
1. Either-or fallacy, bad Wesleytang, bad. It can be both frustration-induced-suspicion and need-communication, those aren't mutually exclusive.
2. A hardened crowd from YEARS of disappointments
Also, they (Cryptic and Easy Studios) did post registered player numbers. Google it!
The beauty of it is you don't have to reward anyone at all, they'll do all the work just to get their stuff in the game.
I'm fairly positive Cryptic/PWE cannot have customers adding art and other assets to the game for free. This would more than likely be illegal as it would violate any number of labor laws. There is a similar discussion on the STO Forums about this.
Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
Doesn't SOE has Player Studio were player's can make items and get them in-game and get money from the item solds?
EDIT: Also, players could make VOLUNTEER work, So pay isn't required.
I'm fairly positive Cryptic/PWE cannot have customers adding art and other assets to the game for free. This would more than likely be illegal as it would violate any number of labor laws. There is a similar discussion on the STO Forums about this.
Doesn't SOE has Player Studio were player's can make items and get them in-game and get money from the item solds?
EDIT: Also, players could make VOLUNTEER work, So pay isn't required.
Yeah it's a bit silly to think that you'd be violating a labor law, when you decide out of your own free will to make some game assets.
I'm fairly positive Cryptic/PWE cannot have customers adding art and other assets to the game for free. This would more than likely be illegal as it would violate any number of labor laws. There is a similar discussion on the STO Forums about this.
Dead wrong.
Examples?
VALVE: Half-life mods. (and in more recent years, Source mods). Many-- no, most of those are free. Map editor = Hammer editor.
BLIZZARD: Worldcraft Editor, makes WC3 maps. Google it, there's entire websites with literally thousands of submissions of everything from textures, to icons, to models, to maps, to even JASS code (basically Visual Basic with a easy-to-use designed talored for WC3 code)
Neverwinter Nights (original and then later NWN2) using the Auora map editor
Descent using the DEVIL map editor (that's going back to 1996!)
Need I keep going?
I don't know where you're getting that myth from, but it needs to die, and quickly.
Not quite sure it is wrong, but if you'd like to continue believing it isn't more power to you.
No, it's pretty much dead wrong.
1) That guy you're quoting doesn't work for Cryptic, he's a Volunteer, like smackwell.
2) We're not talking about contract work, we're talking about volunteer work with rewards.
3) PWE can totally hire contractors to do the same job as full time employees and I'd like to see where that little nugget came from, since pretty much every corporation in the past 10 years has done exactly that. We normally like to call them "temps," or for the less useless, "specialists."
1) That guy you're quoting doesn't work for Cryptic, he's a Volunteer, like smackwell.
2) We're not talking about contract work, we're talking about volunteer work with rewards.
3) PWE can totally hire contractors to do the same job as full time employees and I'd like to see where that little nugget came from, since pretty much every corporation in the past 10 years has done exactly that. We normally like to call them "temps," or for the less useless, "specialists."
I understand that the post I quoted was not from a Cryptic employee. I included it for reference as I said there is a similar discussion on the STO forums. As I said, if you want to believe that then more power to you. I'd personally prefer to have the facts from someone who is qualified to answer.
Thanks tho
Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
As I said, if you want to believe that then more power to you. I'd personally prefer to have the facts from someone who is qualified to answer.
Thanks tho
So... In other words you're just trolling? I don't get it. It's a false myth you're trying to push.
You said (your words not mine) it was most likely illegal. It isn't. Period. Over a decade of me producing content myself, with full understanding that I wouldn't be paid for most things I made.
And a hefty assumption of illegality too (not to mention illegal WHERE? Deciding jurisdiction is even trickier! International law is even more lax. I would know, I rather recently looked into the whole "no odds being posted on gambling in video gaming" issue that seems to be spreading in the video game industry.) Forget even the burden of proof for illegality, it's a few thousand dollars task just to research where it might be illegal! Let alone making a class action case that would cost huge money and you get NOTHING back. It's entirely lose-lose, all loss. That's why no sensible laywer even wants to touch that subject.
Crowdsourcing on the other hand is beneficial, win-win, for everyone:
1. Companies pay to take the time to carefully setup the tools, terms, contests, and approval methods. In return they get content produced by the community for the community as long as operations continue at no additional cost. VERY economical and smart! A major advantage PC games have over console games.
2. Customers with skill take the time and effort to create content with the tools downloaded from the company, and produce with the understanding that it's strictly volunteer and the software is owned by the company. When their stuff gets published (officially or unofficially) and other users like it, the author gains fame.
tl;dr
You're full of BS. It's not a matter of belief in this case, you're just wrong and the proof is all over the web. (not being condesending, it simply is dead wrong)
I'm fairly positive Cryptic/PWE cannot have customers adding art and other assets to the game for free. This would more than likely be illegal as it would violate any number of labor laws.
Simply put, no. Volunteer work on a commercial product is not illegal in the US. There are entirely too many examples of this to cite but suffice it to say the volunteer part negates most labor laws by itself while the lack of any sort of contract negates the ones that the volunteer part doesn't summarily dismiss on its own.
1. Either-or fallacy, bad Wesleytang, bad. It can be both frustration-induced-suspicion and need-communication, those aren't mutually exclusive.
2. A hardened crowd from YEARS of disappointments
Also, they (Cryptic and Easy Studios) did post registered player numbers. Google it!
I did not say frustration-induced-suspicion and need-communication are mutually exclusive. I said that when there was lack of communication people complained about the lack of it but when there is communication, people choose to doubt it.
A hardened crowd from years of disappointments but like you put it was accumulated over the years as the game went through different hands. So a former government of a state was bad but do we push all the blame of previous greivances onto the new one or do we give them a chance during their term. Sure, less educated and frustrated, irrational people do that but should we also behave that way?
It will be nice if you could provide the link. Google did not turn up any figures. Furthermore, you should know that registered player numbers is different from active members and different from active members with purchasing power which is then different from active members with purchasing power who actually spends on the game.
Here's a video link to Craig Zinkievich, the COO of Cryptic speaking at Social and Online Games Summit about user generated content. Might clear the air on the "legality" of it all.
I like how the title is the only mention this game gets in the whole 55 minute video.
Unfortunately, the dev team is backed up, so the meeting won't be happening today. That said, today I'm going to be posting a preview of what's coming out this week, including the rewards table for the next phase of the Lemurian Invasion.
I would say I'm disappointed but I am not.
I think I'm numb to it TT.. I've developed a true apathy for Champions Online and that is so much worse. At least when disappointed you know I cared.
I really WANT to care.. but it just feels too hazardous to care and be disappointed again.
Here's a video link to Craig Zinkievich, the COO of Cryptic speaking at Social and Online Games Summit about user generated content. Might clear the air on the "legality" of it all.
I like how the title is the only mention this game gets in the whole 55 minute video.
Here's a video link to Craig Zinkievich, the COO of Cryptic speaking at Social and Online Games Summit about user generated content. Might clear the air on the "legality" of it all.
I like how the title is the only mention this game gets in the whole 55 minute video.
The things we need to draw Dev attention to is what Craig says at 44:50-
He's answering a question about the cost vs benefit of UGC or a Foundry.
Basically he's saying that the 200 plus hours of 5 star, max rated content*, was worth the cost in so much as this amount of content couldn't have been created for the same price/time as the Foundry cost them to make possible.
In short; The Foundry would literally be worth more than any other type of content they could make.
*Never mind potentially larger amounts of worthwhile 4 start content. This is in part because he assumes that Cryptic generated content is equal to 5 stars, which he freely admits players wouldn't necessarily rate so high all the time.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
the 200 plus hours of 5 star, max rated content*, was worth the cost in so much as this amount of content couldn't have been created for the same price/time as the Foundry cost them to make possible.
In short; The Foundry would literally be worth more than any other type of content they could make.
This is the biggest point as to why it should be pushed to be added by the devs and Cryptic in general. Equal Foundry in all their games.
This is the biggest point as to why it should be pushed to be added by the devs and Cryptic in general. Equal Foundry in all their games.
Totally agree, the amount of quality content that would be generated for free by such a passionate community would be substantial. In addition, since we already have alerts, it wouldn't (ideally) suffer the "farming" issue that CoX had with mission architect since players can already get great XP through Alerts.
The Foundry would literally add (totally my opinion) years to CO longevity; could you please add it to the list of items to review TT?
TT - I understand this meeting didn't happen last week (which makes me fear the truly low numbers of devs working on CO if there were too few for a quorum) but when was it rescheduled for?
When can we expect a State of the Game? And how often? My interest is waning and what is said in this SoTG will surely sway me to stay or leave.
So.. its coming up on 5PM PST.. can we assume the meeting is off this week too?
OR did you just say that to pacify some rather pissed off players with another false hope?
Because there has been ALOT of the latter going around. And frankly I am tired of being tired.
Unfortunately, the dev team is backed up, so the meeting won't be happening today. That said, today I'm going to be posting a preview of what's coming out this week, including the rewards table for the next phase of the Lemurian Invasion.
show me in the post where it says that the meeting has been pushed back, rescheduled, still pending or any sort of indication that it's still on the table as a possibility.
There is no time frame. There is no meeting. This whole conversation is over.
I was actually going to create a fresh thread about this meeting asking TT to tell the dev team that whatever is backing them up, just stop. Drop it. Nobody gives a s**t, and the ones that do will just get mad, so just get to work on the Foundry. But that's not the plan.
The point is not to improve CO. We have this misconception for some reason. The devs may love the game, no doubt, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not about improving CO; at least not the way we view improvements.
Anyway, then I realized there was no point to such a thread. The devs will do what they are going to do, player feedback does not matter unless it's financial, and nothing is going to magically change because we found some new way to ask for it. This is not a dialogue, it's a two way monologue. Turtle is telling us what is happening, the players are saying what they want, and these two have nothing to do with each other.
So, with regards to TT's state of the game meeting having imploded, I offer this up.
In my regular, work-a-day life, I have to schedule the occasional meeting with a motley collection of reprobates ... and it ain't that tough to find a time and place to get a small group of people together, especially when they work in close proximity to each other.
With a dev "team" of something less than 5 people, you can, with 24 hours' notice, get together a lunch meeting and order in pizza (that happened a lot in my dot-com days). Or snag a booth for some after work beverages at the local watering hole (that happens with surprising frequency these days).
It occurs to me that TT either couldn't get the length of meeting he wanted and said "___k it" (sometimes, getting something notasgoodasyouwanted is better than getting nothing) or the "team" (surely an overly grandiose term) just didn't want to do it.
In either case, all I can do is shrug my shoulders 'cause I simply expect nothin' better from CO and Cryptic.
Hey, Jack, remember those interviews where you wagged some pole bragging about how good Cryptic's communication is (was?) with its players? How Cryptic did that soooo much better than other MMO studios?
Yeah, I do.
And that's a big part of the reason I coughed up full retail for CO + my LT despite my misgivings (I could've weaseled out of my LT post-release, but didn't).
Maybe it's just me being an outsider, I haven't played this game in a very very long time, since before it went F2P, getting back into playing full force now, but I don't get all the fuss here. The game is still receiving updates, while not huge we are still getting new content. And not only that but the content seems to be coming out at a fairly regular pace. WoW only had like 2 updates in an entire year, and people are complaining because Cryptic isn't updating this thing daily and keeping us up to date on all of it?
Don't get me wrong, I think this game could use a lot more content, but it's not like they aren't doing anything at all. There are many MMOs out there receiving a lot less content and updates than this game is. My hopes is after Neverwinter releases Cryptic buckles down and focuses on the 3 games. I'll be playing all 3 and hope they put everything they have into them.
Hell put the foundry into CO and release a new comic series or update lets say 4 times and year and I'd be beyond happy with that amount of content. Hell I'd settle for less.
I guess my point is while I do think we could use more content, and want to see things like foundry in the game, it's not like the game is being totally ignored, it's not like we get nothing at all, and people seem to be blowing this way out of proportion considering similar situations, or even less, in comparable MMOs.
As an industry insider the most I can say is that this much silence is definitely not a good thing. Sure, some companies talk more than others, but all you have to do is take a look at the STO and NW forums to see those devs are talking to their communities. The Champs devs arent, and my guess is because they are busy putting out resumes for when PW finally sunsets this game.
Don't give up. TT does not work at Cryptic, and that's definitely a monkey wrench in coordinating a meeting; furthermore, remembering some of the marathon design sessions and discussions I had when I was in the industry, I'd guess the issues that need to be discussed will probably take a lot longer than a working lunch would allow. And with NWO just going beta, TT's likely swamped.
We have new content, faint though it is, for a bit. If we hear nothing in a few weeks, then we can cast some angry glares. Be patient.
Don't give up. TT does not work at Cryptic, and that's definitely a monkey wrench in coordinating a meeting...
^Truth. I've gotten very good at just grabbing people and making them sit down and talk, but being in two separate offices makes it harder to do that.
Unfortunately, it was rescheduled again -- one of the key stakeholders was out sick. I'll let you know when the new date is set for. I think we're all a little exasperated at having to push this back, but the alternative is to go ahead without buy-in from some important people.
Comments
It aint Turtles fault as far as I have seen if he has info he shares instantly.
Git Gud M8!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Cause I'm worth it. Playing since 2009.
It IS aimed directly at the executive-management team at PWE / Cryptic that seem perfectly ok with the lacklustre development and wasted potential self-evident in the title because of their lack of focus and under-investment in Champions-Online.
Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
@Mothers_Love
Fair enough my bad for reading it wrong.
Git Gud M8!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Cause I'm worth it. Playing since 2009.
What about that Lemurian Robe Costume piece mentioned in the blog?
I like cats :cool:.
UGC Campaign: The Coldblooded Scrolls
How one wears a robe under water, deep in the ocean?
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Under water, deep in the ocean, the Only way to wear a robe is ... With Style!!:cool:
I like cats :cool:.
UGC Campaign: The Coldblooded Scrolls
http://crypticstudios.com/in_development
Yeah, CO is dead. I'm done.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Very much so.
Pretty much everything you said has been reached through logical deduction.
If only COs profits were kept into the game. Let NWO siphon from STO since its doing so well. This game doesn't need croudfunding when its already making profits. Those profits should be going back in to make it better.
I have been with champions for quite a bit. I recall the beta stuff and left shortly after. Came around 2011 by friends for the free to play and really hit the nose to the grindstone in playing and subbed in a few months in from that. From that point until now there's been quite a few things that were good and others not so much.
The biggest thing that seems to happen much as others have stated is within the last year as more things have been brought out to make a quick buck than be lasting as it were. Some ideas are actually good if only they were implemented better.
First off: Devices - Strong point of the game with customization. I recall from werewolves to other transforms the use of different powers and appearance. For a silver or archtype, it can be essential if you don't have the right power. These tend to be done rather well and interesting twist at times. For a gold....not as much since you can freeform.
End of 2012/Start of 2013: Vehicles - pretty much an advanced device that follows in different powers but fully customizable depending on mods.
Verdict: The system itself in making your own is a great idea, but what makes it a poor execution is where to use them. One mission at the moment (sky command) and a possible second for the invasion with so much time in between does not make them useful. Throw in the fact that the best ones are in lockboxes (somewhat understandable as to generate sales) and variations that are decent are highly priced as to keep most away from appeal.
How to make them profitable? To get more into the system, why not throw in an earnable vehicle? It could possibly have at max 4 slots. (2 Weapon and 1 each for support and defense) As means for everyone to test out vehicles. For golds, possible free vehicle done in this merit for incentive to subbing like the hideouts a free one. Now others are seeing a reason to pay for convenience to upgrade their vehicle and take part in the newer system of content.
Also make as others have stated even take old instances and make a zone out of them, in this manner make it open ended, several mission strings, etc but a reason to actually use the vehicles in another area to explore. The moon? The battle of detroit? Endless opportunities here.
Alerts:
I do like this notion and quite frankly for a superhero mmo it's a very good idea because due to the realistic nature of such universes, emergencies happen every time of the day and anywhere they can, so in a nutshell this is good. There should be more of them for variants of each for grab, smash and burst. Radiation rumble is wonderful for a burst and allows even new users more power temporarily and get used to working on a team for a short time. There should be more developed in mind for this. This could help easily with satisfying more content if you pump more of the champions lore into introducing more villians of the universe in this manner if you cannot do lengthy content. This has been seemingly done so far in several ways so it's not bad. Also the costume unlock drops are a great idea.
This brings up the point of the events like the current one. There should be means to cycle the events in a manner to be replayable or this might be a good way to make a new "zone" that would have this content be able to be played daily somehow. Fancy a blood moon or to take on nighthawk? How about battle of detroit? (seriously for a time traveling mega event this SHOULD be done. Nothing short of epic in seeing a young defender and such in the making or the fall of the heros that died fighting destroyer.) Or smashing around clarence? Use that portal idea and make it so.
Hideouts:
What superhero doesn't have one? A good idea but needs better execution and more options to customize. How about instead of just costume unlocks but actual items can be found either on enemies or made? Or possibly purchased in the questionite store? Maybe I would like an energy reactor in my base or some other piece of working furniture? Possiblities and customization is endless. Plus it would give more to sell in that store. I would love to be able to trade things to put in hideouts as well that fit different themes.
As others have said, the idea has been wonderful for them but there needs more customization.
Questionite Store: Being able to trade a currency to get rare items or possibly use it for currency in trades to get from the z-store? I like the sound of that. It works again like hideouts to give some options, but you need to start filling more in there. I like how there are mods, vehicle powers and some costumes there including stuff from the adventure packs and the devices from the holidays are a nice touch. You laid the ground work in getting some of the old there to be purchased freely. Now there needs to be more current and new things to actually spend with questionite. How about for instance some different avian heads? It's been over a year for example and usually from the vet rewards stuff there's a variant of some sort to those that can be bought in some manner.
Even put in retrain, respec, retcon tokens and other services why not put them in the questionite store and allow us to trade them with others for a decent ratio? Factor in how much it would cost compared to z-store and go by exchange rates. Guaranteed its a surefire way to get more community involvement if you can trade service items like the service grab bag ones.
P.S. I would have to sub until december at the very least to reach 900 days and when those sets were first introduced I thought it was coming to the z-store back then. Like many others. That really hurt in where they ended up. Not cool for that one. Please fix that somehow and perhaps offer more creature heads and bodies let alone like others have suggested on the nighthawk hood. Allow beastials, monsterous, insects to use hair, helmets, etc and let us worry on the clipping. All the fun we get to experiment with.
Some of the cons:
Very low resource for silvers. Seriously? There is one thing even for any online game is that even if there is "free" players it shouldn't be placed to restrict them from being able to use a service. I mean the auction house for this. I started back here as a silver and it was frustrating at a point to which you could not really afford things in game in this manner despite how many resources you acquire. Gold members do need those to buy goods such as a reason for an economy in game to exist. Slashing the fact of them having less to sell to is a good way for them to just sit there with items found and not bother interacting with others via trades or auction house. There needs to be a flourishing economy and in a way the one here has been stagnant because of it.
It should be removed for limitations or as others have suggested a modest service fee to increase it by increments. At the very least by 100 at time and purchasable in unlimited amounts.
Legacy devices and other items done in drifter store as gamble: If I played long enough to get to making some of these I wish I did or earned them back then in how you could for "free" from the original flow of the game. Some should be reinstated as their original purpose than forced into a gamble. Maybe change the prerequisites in obtaining depending where they were, and adjust them when needed. Some are seriously overpowered and I wonder if that is intentional. The costume pieces as well should somehow get integrated as rewards like they used to be from finishing actual content. Make it incentive for those to either A) Play certain alerts as a rare drop or
I think I summarized on most for now, I'll have to think of more later, but as someone has stated this year will make or break this game. It should hopefully be pushed in the right direction as many like myself would love to put even more into this game, and for microtransactions it's anything that can be done on a quick cheap buck helps. Anything 5 bucks or less is feasible, but start asking for 10, 18, 20 or even 30 or 50 can drive others from spending more than they would otherwise.
The current developers were probably not on board for the previous promises. Neither was PWE or TT. What can you expect other than their words to say they will indeed look into the suggestions. I am very glad that at least someone has spoken up to say that CO is still profitable and there are not plans to close it down. Either hang around and give the game another chance or leave. No one can promise what will happen in the future.
In large, what Kenpjujitsu said makes alot of sense. F2P is obviously a profitable operational model for CO otherwise they would have remained subscription based. Repeatable sales are indeed more profitable and I believe their sales figure would have proven it. However, there is indeed a need to have more content to keep people interested such they will continue to buy the things being sold for microtransactions. The question really is what level of content will the current revenue be able to support.
Agentnx, despite your wealth of experience or knowledge about the gaming industry and how other games operate and so forth, please bear in mind that the size of the playerbase ultimately determines what kind of marketing and pricing strategy can work for the game. The lack of actual figures prevent any form of meaningful comparison.
TT, crowdsourcing is likely going to be the best win-win situation in the long run for the game. Players' created content (costumes, emotes, missions etc) can be sold to other players. While the person contributing can be rewarded in other non-monetary manner. The players get what they want and the company gets to reel in the profits. At the same time the option to create such content can be first sold like a Dungeon Master Add-On Kit. It will be good the survey the price players will be willing to pay and the cost to implement such an option.
Sadface.
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--Part 2: A Blind Eye (NW-DI3QTHZGJ)
--Part 3: Dodo's Dinner (NW-DHPA8O253)
-One Shots
--The Wizard of Eldeur (NW-DRKQNE4S7)
Technically Perfect World's financial resource allocation. And the reason they moved away from Atari as I recall also had to do with money.
But I get your point (post #143 was excellent btw, everyone should read it IMHO)
Well actually that's not entirely correct... Ever heard of the phrase "no such thing as a free lunch"? In this case the opportunity cost to Cryptic is in initial setup, maintenance, & quality assurance; and the community creators are essentially paid for their time & effort spent in fame. Fame counts as payment, albeit it costs Cryptic next to nothing for it -- the long-term benefits are full of win!
That's kind of the problem with Cryptic as a business. They think very short-term, it's always been about getting a quick buck and only planning an overall development direction one quarter-year ahead, planning sales only a month ahead, and planning a patch a week or two ahead. They need to plan ahead at least 4 or 8 times as far than they are currently doing... THINK LONG-TERM GROWTH, please!
1. Either-or fallacy, bad Wesleytang, bad. It can be both frustration-induced-suspicion and need-communication, those aren't mutually exclusive.
2. A hardened crowd from YEARS of disappointments
Also, they (Cryptic and Easy Studios) did post registered player numbers.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
I'm fairly positive Cryptic/PWE cannot have customers adding art and other assets to the game for free. This would more than likely be illegal as it would violate any number of labor laws. There is a similar discussion on the STO Forums about this.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
EDIT: Also, players could make VOLUNTEER work, So pay isn't required.
I like cats :cool:.
UGC Campaign: The Coldblooded Scrolls
Yeah it's a bit silly to think that you'd be violating a labor law, when you decide out of your own free will to make some game assets.
Dead wrong.
Examples?
VALVE: Half-life mods. (and in more recent years, Source mods). Many-- no, most of those are free. Map editor = Hammer editor.
BLIZZARD: Worldcraft Editor, makes WC3 maps. Google it, there's entire websites with literally thousands of submissions of everything from textures, to icons, to models, to maps, to even JASS code (basically Visual Basic with a easy-to-use designed talored for WC3 code)
Neverwinter Nights (original and then later NWN2) using the Auora map editor
Descent using the DEVIL map editor (that's going back to 1996!)
Need I keep going?
I don't know where you're getting that myth from, but it needs to die, and quickly.
Here's another two examples from Champions:
1. http://powerhouse.nullware.com/
2. The community-created villians seen in some of the regular Alerts
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
Not quite sure it is wrong, but if you'd like to continue believing it isn't more power to you.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
No, it's pretty much dead wrong.
1) That guy you're quoting doesn't work for Cryptic, he's a Volunteer, like smackwell.
2) We're not talking about contract work, we're talking about volunteer work with rewards.
3) PWE can totally hire contractors to do the same job as full time employees and I'd like to see where that little nugget came from, since pretty much every corporation in the past 10 years has done exactly that. We normally like to call them "temps," or for the less useless, "specialists."
I understand that the post I quoted was not from a Cryptic employee. I included it for reference as I said there is a similar discussion on the STO forums. As I said, if you want to believe that then more power to you. I'd personally prefer to have the facts from someone who is qualified to answer.
Thanks tho
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
So... In other words you're just trolling? I don't get it. It's a false myth you're trying to push.
You said (your words not mine) it was most likely illegal. It isn't. Period. Over a decade of me producing content myself, with full understanding that I wouldn't be paid for most things I made.
And a hefty assumption of illegality too (not to mention illegal WHERE? Deciding jurisdiction is even trickier! International law is even more lax. I would know, I rather recently looked into the whole "no odds being posted on gambling in video gaming" issue that seems to be spreading in the video game industry.) Forget even the burden of proof for illegality, it's a few thousand dollars task just to research where it might be illegal! Let alone making a class action case that would cost huge money and you get NOTHING back. It's entirely lose-lose, all loss. That's why no sensible laywer even wants to touch that subject.
Crowdsourcing on the other hand is beneficial, win-win, for everyone:
1. Companies pay to take the time to carefully setup the tools, terms, contests, and approval methods. In return they get content produced by the community for the community as long as operations continue at no additional cost. VERY economical and smart! A major advantage PC games have over console games.
2. Customers with skill take the time and effort to create content with the tools downloaded from the company, and produce with the understanding that it's strictly volunteer and the software is owned by the company. When their stuff gets published (officially or unofficially) and other users like it, the author gains fame.
tl;dr
You're full of BS. It's not a matter of belief in this case, you're just wrong and the proof is all over the web. (not being condesending, it simply is dead wrong)
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
Simply put, no. Volunteer work on a commercial product is not illegal in the US. There are entirely too many examples of this to cite but suffice it to say the volunteer part negates most labor laws by itself while the lack of any sort of contract negates the ones that the volunteer part doesn't summarily dismiss on its own.
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I did not say frustration-induced-suspicion and need-communication are mutually exclusive. I said that when there was lack of communication people complained about the lack of it but when there is communication, people choose to doubt it.
A hardened crowd from years of disappointments but like you put it was accumulated over the years as the game went through different hands. So a former government of a state was bad but do we push all the blame of previous greivances onto the new one or do we give them a chance during their term. Sure, less educated and frustrated, irrational people do that but should we also behave that way?
It will be nice if you could provide the link. Google did not turn up any figures. Furthermore, you should know that registered player numbers is different from active members and different from active members with purchasing power which is then different from active members with purchasing power who actually spends on the game.
I like how the title is the only mention this game gets in the whole 55 minute video.
Watch and weep/and or enrage.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1016471/User-Generated-Content-In-MMOs
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
I would say I'm disappointed but I am not.
I think I'm numb to it TT.. I've developed a true apathy for Champions Online and that is so much worse. At least when disappointed you know I cared.
I really WANT to care.. but it just feels too hazardous to care and be disappointed again.
Lunchtime.. and I have a feeling I will be numb to the rage.. not saying it wont be there.. just that it's too late to force me to care.
Finally watching.. WOW. Just WOW. I could have sworn disney owned Cinderella but Champions Online does quite a good impression.
Wooow.. so much of what he says about players is what champions online veterans complain about.. yet they go unfixed. I mean.. just wow.
- -
"Players exploit UGC to cut the leveling curve; we stopped them from doing that".. meanwhile in Champions Online, Smash Alerts..
- -
"Adding new content is what brings players back to your game".. Meanwhile in Champions Online, Santa Claus has a new bio..
- -
The only time Champions Online is mentioned is in the title:
Session Name User-Generated Content In MMOs - From Champions Online To Neverwinter
The things we need to draw Dev attention to is what Craig says at 44:50-
He's answering a question about the cost vs benefit of UGC or a Foundry.
Basically he's saying that the 200 plus hours of 5 star, max rated content*, was worth the cost in so much as this amount of content couldn't have been created for the same price/time as the Foundry cost them to make possible.
In short; The Foundry would literally be worth more than any other type of content they could make.
*Never mind potentially larger amounts of worthwhile 4 start content. This is in part because he assumes that Cryptic generated content is equal to 5 stars, which he freely admits players wouldn't necessarily rate so high all the time.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
This is the biggest point as to why it should be pushed to be added by the devs and Cryptic in general. Equal Foundry in all their games.
Thundrax.. you could create sum badass Canada Missions using lore I've only read about..
Rune.. Me want play content made for the "classic western comic" that I know you love.
DE:LTA - best damn SG ever. I know you'd all make the best UNTIL (Project
) missions ever.
Me luvz you. I'll see you in (*insert game here*)
:biggrin:
Totally agree, the amount of quality content that would be generated for free by such a passionate community would be substantial. In addition, since we already have alerts, it wouldn't (ideally) suffer the "farming" issue that CoX had with mission architect since players can already get great XP through Alerts.
The Foundry would literally add (totally my opinion) years to CO longevity; could you please add it to the list of items to review TT?
Thanks!
When can we expect a State of the Game? And how often? My interest is waning and what is said in this SoTG will surely sway me to stay or leave.
Hey .. you stole that one from me
OR did you just say that to pacify some rather pissed off players with another false hope?
Because there has been ALOT of the latter going around. And frankly I am tired of being tired.
The attention span of a goldfish.. that's what they expect and that's what they get.. "Ooh shiny"
I wold rage so hard if it weren't so commonplace.+
You would be, then you realized your telepathy holds are inadequate and then you gave up.
Ghaaaa****
You made me snort my Mountain Dew!!
I gotta quit reading the forums will chugging my morning soda.
CellarRat33 :: formerly Bsquared
***
"The great thing about glory unending is that it's dirt cheap!" - Tateklys
From the Adventures of Thundrax (canadascott)
***
Jay, you've been here for years. Why would you expect anything different from either side?
I point you to
show me in the post where it says that the meeting has been pushed back, rescheduled, still pending or any sort of indication that it's still on the table as a possibility.
There is no time frame. There is no meeting. This whole conversation is over.
I was actually going to create a fresh thread about this meeting asking TT to tell the dev team that whatever is backing them up, just stop. Drop it. Nobody gives a s**t, and the ones that do will just get mad, so just get to work on the Foundry. But that's not the plan.
The point is not to improve CO. We have this misconception for some reason. The devs may love the game, no doubt, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not about improving CO; at least not the way we view improvements.
Anyway, then I realized there was no point to such a thread. The devs will do what they are going to do, player feedback does not matter unless it's financial, and nothing is going to magically change because we found some new way to ask for it. This is not a dialogue, it's a two way monologue. Turtle is telling us what is happening, the players are saying what they want, and these two have nothing to do with each other.
Whether that's trying to get funny screenshots in CO or playing some other game, depends on you.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
In my regular, work-a-day life, I have to schedule the occasional meeting with a motley collection of reprobates ... and it ain't that tough to find a time and place to get a small group of people together, especially when they work in close proximity to each other.
With a dev "team" of something less than 5 people, you can, with 24 hours' notice, get together a lunch meeting and order in pizza (that happened a lot in my dot-com days). Or snag a booth for some after work beverages at the local watering hole (that happens with surprising frequency these days).
It occurs to me that TT either couldn't get the length of meeting he wanted and said "___k it" (sometimes, getting something notasgoodasyouwanted is better than getting nothing) or the "team" (surely an overly grandiose term) just didn't want to do it.
In either case, all I can do is shrug my shoulders 'cause I simply expect nothin' better from CO and Cryptic.
Hey, Jack, remember those interviews where you wagged some pole bragging about how good Cryptic's communication is (was?) with its players? How Cryptic did that soooo much better than other MMO studios?
Yeah, I do.
And that's a big part of the reason I coughed up full retail for CO + my LT despite my misgivings (I could've weaseled out of my LT post-release, but didn't).
Don't get me wrong, I think this game could use a lot more content, but it's not like they aren't doing anything at all. There are many MMOs out there receiving a lot less content and updates than this game is. My hopes is after Neverwinter releases Cryptic buckles down and focuses on the 3 games. I'll be playing all 3 and hope they put everything they have into them.
Hell put the foundry into CO and release a new comic series or update lets say 4 times and year and I'd be beyond happy with that amount of content. Hell I'd settle for less.
I guess my point is while I do think we could use more content, and want to see things like foundry in the game, it's not like the game is being totally ignored, it's not like we get nothing at all, and people seem to be blowing this way out of proportion considering similar situations, or even less, in comparable MMOs.
We have new content, faint though it is, for a bit. If we hear nothing in a few weeks, then we can cast some angry glares. Be patient.
^Truth. I've gotten very good at just grabbing people and making them sit down and talk, but being in two separate offices makes it harder to do that.
Unfortunately, it was rescheduled again -- one of the key stakeholders was out sick. I'll let you know when the new date is set for. I think we're all a little exasperated at having to push this back, but the alternative is to go ahead without buy-in from some important people.