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Pay to Win? Put Legion Gear up for Recognition
rugrothrumbor
Posts: 534 Arc User
Seriously 4-slotted upgrades for a limited time only which you had to buy with keys? These should be put on the Silver Champion Recognition vendor for each piece at least 45 Silver Champion Tokens.
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Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
Post edited by rugrothrumbor on
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I am so sick of hearing the Pay to Win crying and BS when in order to get the thing the person is whining about actually could be received without spending a penny.
Careful, next thing you know someone is gonna make an argument that Farm2Win makes you pay with your time.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
And there would be no difference to this statement once the item becomes bought by recognition tokens.
Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
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:eek:
.
If so, you might as well go for the Silver champions ones anyway.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
hmm... I think I will stay with my Silver champions gear.
But the Legion gives 4 slots... that you can edit.
Yes, but it's only certain mods that you can put in that extra slot. I understand that more options are better, but in many cases the built-in bonus the silver gear has can exceed what a similar mod would give you, (I'm working off of R5 mods here).
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I don't mind if they were put in the silve recog store, but no way should they have the same recog cost range as the Heroic gear.
At least 300 Silver Champion tokens.
It's not what's just fair to you, it's what fair for others too. Price depreciation is normal, but you don't want to crash the market! Gotta use some common sense.
That said, do I feel that there should be some way to grind for this for free that is available to all? Yes of course!
The fact that you can only get it via slot-machine-style gambling on limited-time lockboxes or through trade is too much for pay-to-win.
This balance (between too much pay-to-win and too much free-for-no-effort-or-cost) needs to be restored, and thus I'd be in favor of being able to grind for it for 300 or more Silver Champion tokens.
I cannot sign for 45 tokens, that's asking for a handout (aka. begging).
Edit for ~300 tokens, and I'll sign. Fair enough?
Wow... just wow... spoiled brat much? Do you even hear how you sound?
Look I can understand if you're upset because YOU spent a lot of gold and/or Zen to get yours. 45 Silver Tokens like he's asking is a "lolz no way!" kind of reaction.
Ok.
But your response is dismissive in a way such that it implies a sort of WoW-like snobbery. It's disgusting to me to see that PWE encouraged that.
Let's review:
1. Remember that Silvers are capped at 250g per transaction. Until this cap is removed or given an option to raise, their purchasing power is limited to 250g or less item. Or risk a trade and hope you don't get scammed.
2. Keys can be gained by Zen, and Zen can be gained through Questionite, but it's STILL gambling.
3. You can't still get new Takofanes lockboxes. Existing ones are now exclusive.
Now do you NEED the advantage over Heroic gear?
PvE, not really no.
PvP, yes if it's close match.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
It would be neat if the legion stuff had a small chance of dropping from lair bosses.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I'd be ok with this method too, but it'd need the same chance % that the lockboxes have.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
Actually no, this case is only true with the Offense versions. Thats why Legion gear is the talk of the town.
Lets settle for 150 tokens.
Oh, btw totally forgot
/signed for the thread.
You would ignore blademaster because agentnx5 has an opinion you disagree with? I think the insane person here might be you...
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
Gold players shouldn't spend any money since they r already paying a sub, there shouldn't be any pay to win items in the z store like keys n vehicles. The store should be things that won't b pay2win like costumes, services such as extra toon slots and fun devices such as grow big ect.
Unless the system is collect this x amount of times for example the heirloom gear, collect ten orbs, nemesis minions appear and drop mish every set amount of time, whether it's pay to win luck to win, grind to win, be a devs best friend to win, someone will like the system because it works in their favor and someone will not care much for it because it dont work in their favor.
If I was to look at it in what would work in my favor, I would say bring on the pay to win. I worked hard to get where am I at in life just as if people work hard to grind for stuff so why should I be hindered if I can pay for it because some people have not yet risen up in their career field?
But looking at it without that logic, someone will always be left out even in some cases of collect this amount depending on how high it is and if too high and require alot of time then it becomes grind to win and some people may not have the time.
Its sad, bcz the only reason I bought the sub a long time ago for the extra power the FF had... I have no love for the extra char slots, fancy titles or weak vehicles
^^ Very much this ..
But PWE don't even know what a supscription is and so they simply ignore the fact that we still have them here.
The effective difference is that you're better off not wasting your time and money getting Legion gear when Heroic R5 mods is all you need. Ever.
It's a good thing people who share your opinion quoted above aren't the ones calling the shots.
it's a balance!
A balance between too much pay-to-win and not enough reason to buy.
I can cite example of both in this game.
Too much pay-to-win? Legion gear and certain devices such as the mark 2 vehicle upgrades. Most of these you have to gamble on, slot-machine-style which means potentially you could spend thousands upon thousands of Zen (whether bought yourself or bought by somebody else that you traded them Questionite for) and NEVER a jackpot!
Not enough pay-to-win? Team star refill, purchasable sidekick devices, prototype questionite ore detector, how vehicles lack color customization, XP and Resource boosts (the Zen store ones), Rank Up Catalysts, etc. ALL of these either need to have prices dropped, or to have their benefits increased to make them more desirable to purchase -- more pay-to-win.
So you see? It's a balance.
And do I think Rugorthrumbor is right on this topic that Legion gear is too far on the too pay-to-win extreme?
Yes.
Yes I do.
/signed
That said:
1. 45 Silver Champ recog is far too low, at least 100 to 150 each. If you want to farm them, expect to see classic Crafted Travel Power levels of farming. Don't like farming? Buy it. Everyone wins with more options.
2. A really good reason you want to give people a way to farm for it with recognition is that it encourages people populating the game in areas that you farm it it. As a result, ALL customers with find the game filled with more level 40's running UNITY dailies, Therakiel, Vikorin, Bronze King, weekly alert specials, or any other place they get those level-40-grade Silver Champ tokens. This is win-win!
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
While PvP (Hero Games) queue are dead, Gear doesn't have any meaning. Green, Blue, Heroic or Legion works similar in all PvE.
Dr.D? Therakiel? all Cosmics? Heroic Gears are enough and we did all of them by equipping just Heroic Gears before Legions appeared in game.
BTW, my lvl 40 farm toons (Epi-Spam) are still equipping lvl 6 Green given by Power House Trainer. It works at least well for UNITY Silver Recog farming.
Yes my main toons have Legions... But I don't duel.
While Hero Games queue are totally dead, I feel so lame about the price I spend for Legions.
One more mod slot doesn't make that much of a difference.
Well that's truth. D
Then legion gear should be put up for recognition already.
Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
And a few days later everyone will have it. Now what? Will this satisfaction last longer than a day after that?
No, it won't. We'll get the gear, we'll stick a mod in that extra slot... and then nothing. The only thing that will be left is complaints that all they did was implement a new, and temporary, grind to a game that already has too much grinding for some people's tastes.
BUT I WANT IT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW, and for free.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
APPLAUSE!!! Totally agree with this.
Why are they there? In order for the company to make money to keep the game on life support I supposed.
I mean seriously look at it. There is a rapid price drop in mods, and a flux of legion gears in store since the release of the Malvanum Lockboxes. What does that tell you? Someone somewhere is obviously spending lots of Zen to buy keys to unlock them which means money for the devs. If it does not fit a particular person's taste to have to spend real cash, fine, buy them with globals from AH. As many also pointed out, the legion gears are not even necessary to do the stuff in game. Unless you are into min/maxing for PvP which as monahiruu pointed out is pretty much dead, there is no real need for legions. If it is for collection sake, then the whole point is to work towards that collection. If you get them so easily, totally takes the joy out of it (from the farmer-perspective) and as Smoochan pointed out, when all the toons are decked out, then what?
The problem is rightly pointed out, they want it now and they want it free.
For the records, since the release of the Malvanum lockboxes, I have already gotten my hands on 3 pieces of Legion, Precision, Speed and Elusive (not Agility because I am trying to push for maximum dodge with LR) without having purchase a single of the cosmic keys. Farmed globals, farmed rare costumes to sell etc. I also maintain a near-daily routine of refining and replenishing 8000 questionites on only 1 toon and soon enough I will have enough to get 3 pieces of vigilante gear.
There is already so little end game content. If you do not PvP, the only thing you get to do is to grind for rare stuff.
What are you talking about? Whether it's done or not people will always complain. The only difference is that combat comes down to skill not gear.
Put costume pieces, vehicles into lockboxes. Things that aren't gamebreaking. The game should not be pay to win. I would gladly pay for costumes and keys not for gear. They should not be making money off of stat gear in a game, that's just absurd.
Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
Wait... Legion gear is "gamebreaking", but vehicles aren't?
UNITY gear is enought especially because we will never see level cap increase, mostly because Cryptic will be never able to provide enough content. It's obvious.
Nothing in CO is worth competition anyway. At this point even AT pvp was murdered for good.
But the raw decision of taking the highest possible gear in the game and gating it only behind Z-Store purchase isn't right or healthy and shows very well Cryptic's contempt towards the playerbase.
This isn't good decision and never was, not even when said gear was in Takofanes lockboxes. It's one of the moves which made me, as the player, losing any trace of sympathy and good will for Cryptic and treating this company only as a necessary evil - but nothing else.
First - it's not true that keys can be obtained for free. Every key present in the game was paid by someone, either by subscriber's stipend or via direct purchase of Z-points. If not one player, than another one had to give Cryptic the money for something that should be obtainable also entirely ingame.
Second - it's equally harmful for both Gold and Silver players.
It's harmful for Golds because I have to pay for keys, while in healthy and non-corrupted games things like gear are dropped from bosses or bought by various ingame currencies. And it's only because the company is not competent enough for placing desirable items in Z-store, they can't produce anything of value so they are resorting to the every possible low trick for making players spending their stipends - without putting any real work into producing valuable content.
It's harmful for Silvers because game advertised as a f2p game can't be fair anymore. And for the same reason it's also harmful for CO image - people looking for f2p games are very wary about such tricks and are avoiding such games. Unpopular f2p mmo - mmo with less players leaving less money with microtransactions.
Things like gear and game progression should be never gated exclusively behind microtransactions. They can be slower for players not putting any money into the game, but never gated. Otherwise the game is corrupt, plain and simple.
Cryptic take on lockboxes is probably one of the most greedy and abusive in the whole industry, they don't even have decency to make it easier for subscribers, nor providing a fair and non-corrupt game. And the worst is - this is made in the game which never sees any return of this money.
Legion gear, scamboxes, vehicles, drifter scam - all those ways of milking players are clearly made with no intent for reinvesting any money into the game.
Cryptic basically outdid themselves as an example of completely unethical company.
Is Legion gear pay 2 win? Well, strictly by the definition - probably yes.
But it's hardly a real problem in the game which was driven to the point when no competition makes any sense - a really morbid state for an mmo.
But I'd rather call it pay-to-be-scammed.
Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
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Perhaps they believe that it doesn't make a big difference as regards to the concept of, "pay to win," but that it would mark a significant step in terms of power creep.
The two are very different concerns.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I'm entirely for Cr*ptic ending this scam and placing gear where it belongs - into the game, not into the store.
I simply can't resist from pointing at the fact that this company in their stupidity also brought the game to the point when even this scam has no real meaning and it probably harms sales.
Because it's hilarious and so Cr*ptic. :biggrin:
I wonder what would have happened here when they released these items at the time they released the Cursed Grabbags.
Probably the people still putting them up for 5000g on AH that nobody would buy because nobody has that kind of money lying around.
Actually there are entirely too many people with that kind of money lying around...without much to spend it on. That is part of the problem.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
What idiocy.
Well, I'd grind for it. If I could work for Legion Gear directly I'd feel a lot more comfortable with it. Make it 300 Silver Champs rec a piece, it'd take at least a month to get a character completely outfitted.
Also, update UNITY missions while you're at it to make the grind somewhat fun. Foreign concept, I know...
This is simply who is willing to forward money for it. Legion gear for SCR is such a bad idea. If that were the case, then just get rid of Heroic Gear, and let Legion gear be the bench mark.
I do not support this. It's a foolish idea.
Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!
As for Legion gear...I really don't care, PvP is really not my thing, and you don't need it for PvE.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
There are people who will pay for gear there are people who will pay for costumes.
There are people who will say gating gear behind payment is not ethical.
There are people who will say gating costumes behind payment is not ethical.
There are people willing to spend for gear.
There are people willing to spend for costumes.
Making computer games is a business. Business seeks to profit. Business is not charity.
More money can be earned from gear compared to costumes.
P2W vs P2LG (Pay to look good) or whatever other models.
Buy over the game and make everything free. I shall like to see that.