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Contest Trolls and Consequences

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  • trailturtletrailturtle Posts: 5,496 Perfect World Employee
    edited January 2013
    This thread's getting a little heated, folks. Can we all take a step back, strip out the attacks and ad hominems, and discuss this with calmer heads? There's a discussion worth having, but no one is anyone's enemy here.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnbGxgCQjT4
  • originaltygeroriginaltyger Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    This is something we've kicked around, but my understanding is that there are some under-the-surface tech issues with it that would take some time to resolve. It's also worthwhile to note that, even if it were simple to program the super-hideouts themselves, that'd be one sale per approximately twenty people who use them. We'd probably want to build them into part of a larger system of player housing.

    (That second point is entirely conjecture and my own assessment, btw, I don't speak for the devs on it.)

    That's possible, I just thought that it'd be something that might be doable.

    Can you ask them how hard it'd be to enable in-game mail inside our hideouts? Or maybe shared bank access through the bank interface? It's just one of those quality of life things.
  • battybattybatsbattybattybats Posts: 777 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    smoochan wrote: »


    This would make sense if CO had any competitors that would feel threatened by it.

    You would think so right, but let me go back to my experience in the WOTW community. Dreamworks and Sony, big players with lots invested and widespread appeal. Dreamworks had Tom Cruise and Speilberg, Sony had one of the biggest albums of all time. While the other productions were tiny chickenfeed low-budget straight-to-dvd stuff.

    The big two should only have been worried about each other right? Its not like the Timothy Hines film or the C. Thomas Howel film would ever be mistaken for or have any significant impact on the takings of the big folk right?

    But thats not how it worked. The little ones also came under heavy attack.

    Now if we swap Dreamworks for DCU and Sony for Marvel..
    Then i guess CO and CoX is the Timothy Hines or C. Thomas Howel.

    Yep, i'm sure that the big companies with more money than sense will have paid trolls in game and in forums. After all if even small churches are astroturfing reviews in every amazon category they disagree with and its become rare for a public protest or town-hall meeting attended by a two-bit politicians of any party or persuasion not to have it's infiltrators and two tiny straight-to-dvd productions got the attention of some of the biggest bussinesses then it would be surprising were they to not be involed.

    After all... Marvel did it in CO before already didn't they. Long before they even had a game on the market to compete with CO.

    How did the wotw dramas end? The sockpuppets got banned, the Cruise film is reknowned as a turkey, Sony's film never got finished, C. Thomas Howels film got a sequel! and Hines still threatens to make one to his film too.
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  • baroness1980baroness1980 Posts: 268 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    You would think so right, but let me go back to my experience in the WOTW community. Dreamworks and Sony, big players with lots invested and widespread appeal. Dreamworks had Tom Cruise and Speilberg, Sony had one of the biggest albums of all time. While the other productions were tiny chickenfeed low-budget straight-to-dvd stuff.

    The big two should only have been worried about each other right? Its not like the Timothy Hines film or the C. Thomas Howel film would ever be mistaken for or have any significant impact on the takings of the big folk right?

    But thats not how it worked. The little ones also came under heavy attack.

    Now if we swap Dreamworks for DCU and Sony for Marvel..
    Then i guess CO and CoX is the Timothy Hines or C. Thomas Howel.

    Yep, i'm sure that the big companies with more money than sense will have paid trolls in game and in forums. After all if even small churches are astroturfing reviews in every amazon category they disagree with and its become rare for a public protest or town-hall meeting attended by a two-bit politicians of any party or persuasion not to have it's infiltrators and two tiny straight-to-dvd productions got the attention of some of the biggest bussinesses then it would be surprising were they to not be involed.

    After all... Marvel did it in CO before already didn't they. Long before they even had a game on the market to compete with CO.

    How did the wotw dramas end? The sockpuppets got banned, the Cruise film is reknowned as a turkey, Sony's film never got finished, C. Thomas Howels film got a sequel! and Hines still threatens to make one to his film too.


    There is also the CoH - Marvel lawsuit... on which it was admitted by Marvel that their investigators created some of the Marvel IP characters on City of Heroes.
  • skcarkskcark Posts: 715 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    smoochan wrote: »
    I think it's even more funny that people seem to have forgotten how to ignore other people without using some fancy /command.

    Xaqchance,

    Give them attention, and they will stay. This thread right here? This thread right here? The person who trolled your contest is looking at this thread right here with a big ol' smile on their face, their chest bursting with pride that they got to you this much.

    By glorifying their exploits with a multi-post spread, you just encouraged them to do it again... good job.

    I really can not understand this defeatist attitude "Obviously it'll go on if you try to stop it, so just give up and wish it away"

    Sure, i understand the theory, but that's all that it is. Theory, in practice it never works especially by people online with the entire anonymous situation.

    Unfortunately, since i like to jump to extreme hypothetical scenarios right away, the example i'd give prob wouldn't be appropriate here
  • kenpojujitsu3kenpojujitsu3 Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    This is not a public forum in the sense that you are purposefully misusing and stretching the term. They(Cryptic/PWE) own them, they set the rules and we are required to follow them or risk losing the privilege of being able to post here. Being a paying customer is neither a license to act like a dingus nor will it protect you from being banned, edited or moderated.

    If you want to be taken seriously, stop stomping your feet angrily and causing a ruckus. That's just as bad as the behavior of the individuals that were pointed out as being CC trolls.
    ashensnow wrote: »
    Actually it is private property just as I stated. These forums are wholly owned by Cryptic/PW. They allow us to use them. Cryptic does not charge for access to these forums. Access to these forums is entirely separate from access to the game. This has been demonstrated by bans handed out here that do not carry over to the game.

    As to your money being misused... Once you give your money to a company it is theirs to do with as they wish. If you do not like what someone else does with THEIR money (its not yours any more) then stop giving them your money.



    You do not pay money to this game. You pay it to Cryptic/PW. Cryptic/PW does spend (some of) the money we spend on THIS GAME on THIS GAME. I can assure you, even without access to their records, that the staff (limited as it might be) does not work for free.

    If it makes you feel any better feel free to assume that your $15 a month is going into CO while other peoples' sub fees are going to NWO and STO.

    I have seen nothing to indicate that money put into developing CO would produce a greater return on investment than if it were put elsewhere. Have you ? Is CO such a success, with many tens or hundreds of thousands of people eager to spend money on it, that investing revenue in this game instead of STO/NWO is obviously the best choice ?

    Do you think that Coca Cola spends all of the $1.69 you spend on a 20oz bottle of Classic Coke back into Classic Coke ? No they do what any business with a successful product does...fill an Olympic swimming pool with hundred dollar bills and hookers for the CEO.

    Joking aside, a business that has two (or more) ways of reinvesting its revenue in its products will generally do so in the manner that will produce the greater return. Do you honestly think that CO will produce the greater return of PW's various products ?







    If those who own the property desire for it to change, and are willing to act on that desire, it will.

    I do find it odd that someone worried about the amount of money being put into CO as a game is interested in diverting even more resources away from the game itself.

    Precisely.
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  • jasinblazejasinblaze Posts: 1,360 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    the obvious solution would be to make Flare a GM
  • cellarrat33cellarrat33 Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    ashensnow wrote: »
    Actually it is private property just as I stated. These forums are wholly owned by Cryptic/PW. They allow us to use them...

    As usual, your logic is impeccable sir.


    CellarRat33 :: formerly Bsquared

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  • mithrosnomoremithrosnomore Posts: 521 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    skcark wrote: »
    I really can not understand this defeatist attitude "Obviously it'll go on if you try to stop it, so just give up and wish it away"

    Sure, i understand the theory, but that's all that it is. Theory, in practice it never works especially by people online with the entire anonymous situation.

    Unfortunately, since i like to jump to extreme hypothetical scenarios right away, the example i'd give prob wouldn't be appropriate here

    That's not a "defeatist" attitude.

    If someone is acting like an idiot in chat I will ignore them. I will not beg and plead with them to change their ways; That just gives them what they want and wastes my time.

    If someone says or does certain things, then I will report the person.
    Again, no need for anyone to give these idiots the attention that they seek. That just encourages the behavior.

    Report and ignore are your friends, the trolls are not.
  • thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Posts: 484 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Report and ignore are your friends, the trolls are not.

    During a non-CC event in the theater this week someone in a huge mecha costume with massive effects popped in and then started roaming around. Some people had stopped in a bit earlier thinking it was a CC but when informed what it was they wandered off so I commented to a friend that this may be one of the CC trolls. It wasn't too disruptive for us since it was merely a rally point to form up and then go elsewhere but it would have been crippling to anyone who wanted to see anything other than Ultra McBigHuge mecha.

    So chat report and ignore would have done nothing. Now if there were power/effects/aura "mutes"...
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  • bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Was the Mecha cool looking?
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • gamehobogamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    /ignore should completely remove a players existance from your sight and vice versa. If somone's on my ignore list it's because they should NOT affect my game AT ALL.

    I dont want to see or hear them, nor have them see or hear me. Instances are few and small enough.. if out of 100 potential players per instance I wont miss out on the griefers being invisible.
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,318 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    That's not a "defeatist" attitude.

    If someone is acting like an idiot in chat I will ignore them. I will not beg and plead with them to change their ways; That just gives them what they want and wastes my time.

    If someone says or does certain things, then I will report the person.
    Again, no need for anyone to give these idiots the attention that they seek. That just encourages the behavior.

    Report and ignore are your friends, the trolls are not.
    Or, as Spider Robinson once wrote, in the novel Stardance:

    "Once, as a kid, I spent a summer working in a mental hospital, and I learned an extraordinary thing: I learned that anyone, no matter how determined, whom you utterly ignore will eventually stop pestering you and go away.,"
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    skcark wrote: »
    I really can not understand this defeatist attitude "Obviously it'll go on if you try to stop it, so just give up and wish it away"

    Sure, i understand the theory, but that's all that it is. Theory, in practice it never works especially by people online with the entire anonymous situation.

    Unfortunately, since i like to jump to extreme hypothetical scenarios right away, the example i'd give prob wouldn't be appropriate here

    I really can not understand how you associate not giving trolls the attention they desire with giving up. You really think if you cry harder, the bully will stop hitting you?

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • rokurocarisrokurocaris Posts: 1,074 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    There are no GMs. There is only auto-silencing.

    That has to change! Stop supporting the trolls, Cryptic! :mad:
  • hocofaisanhocofaisan Posts: 190 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    Or, as Spider Robinson once wrote, in the novel Stardance:

    "Once, as a kid, I spent a summer working in a mental hospital, and I learned an extraordinary thing: I learned that anyone, no matter how determined, whom you utterly ignore will eventually stop pestering you and go away.,"

    That is such a mother's fallacy.
    The way you deal with bullies is to become a superior bully.

    20 thousand years of human civilization can't be wrong on this.
    POSITIVE ABOUT CO IN 2013!
  • titotito333999titotito333999 Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I agree with all... welcome back DM!!!
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  • forutnefireforutnefire Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The problem with an eye for an eye hocofaisan, is that everyone winds up blind.

    If you think human history actually justifies bullying as a way to stop bullying then hot damn, I love being wrong.
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  • mrf0rz1mrf0rz1 Posts: 556 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I agree with all... welcome back DM!!!

    As much as I share the indifference, you're not going to make friends there by saying that Tito >__>

  • gingervitosgingervitos Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Whos this about again?

    Git Gud M8!
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  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Whos this about again?

    HAHA a thread about trolls and you return the universe does have a sense of humor :D
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  • hocofaisanhocofaisan Posts: 190 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The problem with an eye for an eye hocofaisan, is that everyone winds up blind.

    If you think human history actually justifies bullying as a way to stop bullying then hot damn, I love being wrong.

    It does. Why else do the most powerful nations have hundreds of Nuclear weapons.


    Society will definitely fail someday, you can be rest assured. How do I know?

    It takes hundreds of men years to build skyscrapers, but it only takes 1 man a few seconds with a bomb to destroy one. Keep that in the back of your mind when taking pride in our accomplishments.
    POSITIVE ABOUT CO IN 2013!
  • towershield#4714 towershield Posts: 1,208 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    hocofaisan wrote: »
    It does. Why else do the most powerful nations have hundreds of Nuclear weapons.


    Society will definitely fail someday, you can be rest assured. How do I know?

    It takes hundreds of men years to build skyscrapers, but it only takes 1 man a few seconds with a bomb to destroy one. Keep that in the back of your mind when taking pride in our accomplishments.

    And with that I think it's safe to say we're crossing into territory we shouldn't be in.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________
  • cellarrat33cellarrat33 Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The problem with an eye for an eye hocofaisan, is that everyone winds up blind.

    If you think human history actually justifies bullying as a way to stop bullying then hot damn, I love being wrong.

    "History teaches us that when a barbarian race confronts a sleeping culture, the barbarian always wins." - Arnold J. Toynbee, British historian


    CellarRat33 :: formerly Bsquared

    ***
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    From the Adventures of Thundrax (canadascott)
    ***
  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Could someone care to explain to me what the analogy to a barbarian/nuke is in internet terms? I want to be prepared for digital fallout/digital brigands so that I do not get digital cancer or digital smallpox.

    Actually, you know what? Striking back sounds good. Where do we find the "digital troll villages" to plunder?

    What I'm saying is that the war/brute force analogy being used here is stupid.
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  • gamehobogamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I hate ALL trolls.

    Especially the ones who break my ****ing BENCH
  • jellycupsowbugjellycupsowbug Posts: 358 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    Or, as Spider Robinson once wrote, in the novel Stardance:

    "Once, as a kid, I spent a summer working in a mental hospital, and I learned an extraordinary thing: I learned that anyone, no matter how determined, whom you utterly ignore will eventually take your wallet."

    Fixed that for you.
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    bluhman wrote: »
    Actually, you know what? Striking back sounds good. Where do we find the "digital troll villages" to plunder?

    /b/

    What?

    It's true.
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    bluhman wrote: »
    Could someone care to explain to me what the analogy to a barbarian/nuke is in internet terms? I want to be prepared for digital fallout/digital brigands so that I do not get digital cancer or digital smallpox.

    Actually, you know what? Striking back sounds good. Where do we find the "digital troll villages" to plunder?

    What I'm saying is that the war/brute force analogy being used here is stupid.

    You're so gonna get eaten by the digital zombies...

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    hocofaisan wrote: »
    That is such a mother's fallacy.
    The way you deal with bullies is to become a superior bully.

    20 thousand years of human civilization can't be wrong on this.

    Oh good, are we at the point in the conversation where we completely abandon all context and try to attain victory purely through analogies? I like this part, it's like when you're at a party and the alcohol really starts to kick in for everyone at the same time.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • fantasycharacterfantasycharacter Posts: 458 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    bluhman wrote: »
    Could someone care to explain to me what the analogy to a barbarian/nuke is in internet terms? I want to be prepared for digital fallout/digital brigands so that I do not get digital cancer or digital smallpox.

    Actually, you know what? Striking back sounds good. Where do we find the "digital troll villages" to plunder?

    What I'm saying is that the war/brute force analogy being used here is stupid.

    When they start handing out micro chip implants so we can get hard wired into the net, just make sure to ask for your electro-gonorrhea shot.
  • battybattybatsbattybattybats Posts: 777 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    hocofaisan wrote: »
    That is such a mother's fallacy.
    The way you deal with bullies is to become a superior bully.

    20 thousand years of human civilization can't be wrong on this.

    I'm afraid you are wrong, wrong, wrong. To start with Human civilisation is more than twice that old on my continent alone.

    Secondly most civilisations are defeated by their ecological policies and succeed or fail based on whether they wreck their food supply or not.

    Thirdly you ignore that Rome was conquered by the Christians not by violence but by spreading within it, as much as the Scythians and Vandals and Goths might have sacked it. Yes those christians embraced using violence to crush other competing groups after gaining power but that wasn't how they got it first.

    They aren't a sole example either. Trade and language and education has often raised city-states and nations over others much more effectively than invasion and there's cases where an invading people ends up more like the subjected people rather than the other way around.

    As for what works with bullying? Short term violence or force does not solve it, just move it. The guy who attacked me after a long line of others that i had expelled for it went on to kill someone and spent time in jail. Long term solutions require identifying the cause of the behaviour and dealing with that.

    The guy who attacked me i learned years later came from a violently abusive family, his father bashed him and his mother so he emulated this behaviour and, to feel better about himself he bashed people smaller than himself. So rather than expelling him his family should have been compulsarily investigated, his father removed from him and his mother and he and his mother counseled to heal them of the damage done to them so they didnt keep passing it on to others.

    We know that concussion is a big factor in domestic violence. The mechanism has been discovered, acquired brain injury to the impulse-restraining parts of the brain. It's found in more than 80% of Australian prisoners. Neurological rehabilitation of sports concussions and concussions from assault is therefore the answer to bullying.
    ___________________________________
    While she has been rescued
    what diabolical mastermind
    was behind the devious brain-napping of
    the Volterrific Dr Cerebellum?
  • clcmercyclcmercy Posts: 308 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    hocofaisan wrote: »
    The way you deal with bullies is to become a superior bully.

    So....if you're not getting the desired results, use moar violence?

    Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
This discussion has been closed.