Contest Trolls and Consequences

xaqchance

[......] and [.....] often troll contests, as was the case last night (12/30/2012). Their behavior is extremely disturbing as is the lack of consequence. This time they rolled around with a ball travel power wearing neon costumes with brightly colored powers and auras over all the contestants and in front of the judges, disrupting the ability to see and be seen.
I post here to see what else can be done, besides submit ticket ID #1,448,612, in hopes that someone with some authority can address the issue.
I am a paying customer and cannot enjoy the game when players are allowed to destroy everyone's experience. Please, address the issue however you see fit.

Pictures are included.

xaqchance

[......] continuing to troll even after the contest. Clearly, there's no fear of any consequence. Please, show the player the error of its ways.

flyingfinn

Remove the @names, so you don't get trouble because of those trolls.

forutnefire

Thanks Rusty. I urge everyone who likes the community events and wishes for them to continue uninhibited to report GM behavior tickets and tickets to the PWE website.

EDIT: I'd like to remind and Devs/GMs reading this that I'm aware of aspects of your system. These guys come and go. Both have been harassing myself and so many others for at least a year.

I don't know if Cryptic/PWE is allowed to permanently ban or not--from their actions, I'd assume no. That said, they should.

underchicken

Dear Cryptic,

Please permanently ban both of the idiots shown in the pictures above. Harassing other players is (supposed) to be strictly prohibited. This isn't harassing just one individual (which should be enough to earn themselves a ban) but harassing everyone at these contests. And like was said before, they are repeat offenders.

So please, do your jobs for once and take some action. It's long overdue.:mad:

PS: Just in case the OP does decide to remove the names I will post them here also. If the only way to get your attention is buy putting out out in public then so be it.

Handles accused of harassing other players: [.....] and [......]

clcmercy

Sadly, the "naming and shaming" thing will only get you in trouble here on the forums.
Also equally as sad....there'll be very little that can be done about behavior like that, I imagine.

agentnx5

It's not that simple, FlyingFinn.

I know you're just trying to be helpful here, but three issues:

1. You're kind of attempting doing Smackwell's job, are you not? That's up to him to make judgements call on moderation, not you nor I. We simply dispute the inconsistent, unjust, or mistaken decisions. And yeah, I've disputed some of his judgement calls, but ultimately this forum belongs Perfect World, and appointed volunteers (while given responsibility & duties) are ultimately under the discretion of the Chinese.

2. That said, I favor unrestricted free speech. If you're going to be an idiot or a jerk, being free to do so makes it obvious (i.e. YouTube). And others should be able to speak out against it. But these specific forums are not free.

3. I recognize one of the names has been at it for as long as I've been playing, which is to say they are very well known, and GM Nefrit has been flat-out not reading and ignoring some of the tickets. Look up the topic I wrote asking them (politely, clearly and concisely) to fix the Need of Greed issue with the Takofanes Cache Lockboxes, and then later the same persistent annoyance with the Hovertank ones. Customer Service has listened to billing disputes such as those with the Hawkwings and the refunds (which shows that people like GM Arkiene do care & listen), but in most behavior issues they don't assist. You will get no official help with matters of scams/theft ("at your own risk" and thus a good reason to use the Auction House), people trolling your costume contests, or people abusing the chat ban system to silence you for 24 hrs. Therefore yes, I have a certain amount of pity for the author of this topic. They have reason to feel frustrated nothing is being done.

4. This topic is indeed against the forum rules, and while it is truthful and justified in this case, we cannot as a community allow public condemnation. Why? Because people can use it for good or ill, and without an appeals system, burden of proof, etc. it can be abused for ill.

agentnx5

clcmercy wrote: »

Sadly, the "naming and shaming" thing will only get you in trouble here on the forums.

Kind of what I was getting at in my previous post, although your lack of eloquence suggests your inexperience in matters of justice. .. Allow me to explain...

In another MMO, I was the founder/creator of the BIU, Battlefield Investigators Underground. In this particular game, it had been overrun with hackers (FYI: the blatant ones, in the US server regions, were mostly Brazilian). It made the entire gaming experience unfun when 1 out of every 10 players was using a 3rd party hack, right on your very own rented private servers and DICE/EasyStudios wasn't doing **** about it because Electronic Arts didn't really care (in the same way Cryptic isn't doing **** because Perfect World doesn't really care)

So what did I do? I started a rebellion, to take our game back. Made video evidence of people cheating blatantly public on YouTube. Recruited others who were honest and possessing of good character who were already FRAPS-ing too. We then allied with a German Anti-Cheat group named GGC (together against cheaters, in German). All of this, this list, we made open to any server admins who wished to use it to keep the players who would empty their servers, out of it. 100% optional. There was even an appeals system, a rehab support system, and an a heiarchy of accountability.

What ultimately made the developers not ban our effective efforts were two things:

1. We never posted anything on the official forums.

2. At one point two of the cheaters tried to falsely accuse (name&shame) me with faked evidence. With proof of my innocence at hand and the discovery of a name change hack (not to mention the hacker with my "name" failed to buy the unique weapons and costume parts on my character's appearance which made it stupidly obvious it wasn't really me). This both exonerated me officially, and taught me a lesson in humility: burden of proof. "Innocent until proven" must be upheld, at all times.

nextnametaken

Its funny how people pretending to be superheroes are totally powerless to stop even a minor distraction.

smoochan

nextnametaken wrote: »

Its funny how people pretending to be superheroes are totally powerless to stop even a minor distraction.

I think it's even more funny that people seem to have forgotten how to ignore other people without using some fancy /command.

Xaqchance,

Give them attention, and they will stay. This thread right here? This thread right here? The person who trolled your contest is looking at this thread right here with a big ol' smile on their face, their chest bursting with pride that they got to you this much.

By glorifying their exploits with a multi-post spread, you just encouraged them to do it again... good job.

decorumfriends

Honestly, I've found internet trolls ARE doing it for the attention, but not giving it to them doesn't stop them, it makes them try harder. The only way they ever get stopped is when someone in authority gives them the boot.

forutnefire

I honestly can't say there was anything "funny" about the situation.

When someone breaks the rules, they should be punished, shown why the rules were there and why not to break them, and then given a second chance. Upon second offense, they should be punished more severely and then explained again in further detail why it's not appropriate to repeat said offense. The third and final offense should be permanent banning. This of course can only be done on a case by case basis.

[......] admitted to me via emotes (he used the no emote when I asked if he wasn't chat-banned, but I can't take his word for it) that he was just doing it for attention and to make people upset. So, points for honesty but he seems not to care what other people he harasses in the process of becoming the center of attention. The question becomes, is this behavior acceptable to Cryptic and PWE? I have submitted several tickets as I hope you all do. If it is acceptable, the behavior will continue. If not, it won't.

clcmercy

decorumfriends wrote: »

Honestly, I've found internet trolls ARE doing it for the attention, but not giving it to them doesn't stop them, it makes them try harder. The only way they ever get stopped is when someone in authority gives them the boot.

Actually, in my experience....they do stop. It's difficult, but you simply refuse to even acknowledge their presence. Once ignored, you no longer hear their chatter...so it's just their running around you bumping and trying to get you to react to them. Once they find out you simply will not rise to their bait, they move on. The length of time it takes varies from troll to troll, but in the end....yes. They'll simply move on to someone else that'll lash out in anger faster.

Because yes. That's all they want to do, is get a rise out of their victims. Deny them that, and you'll hurt them ever so much more than banning or chatsilencing them ever will.


Also, it's a free to play game. Ban one account, another will simply be created. Banning them feeds their trollish egos.

speekas

Soooo...[....] is back... He was trolling costume contests for a long time and he's still doing it. And our "precious" GMs are doing nothing to help us to deal with this annoying person. Sooner or later all people annoyed by these trolls behaviour will stop organising costume contests and CO will lose this great community activity once and for all.

nepht

xaqchance wrote: »

These two need hit with the ban hammer. Several dozen times. In the groin.

logandarklighter

[.....]

Banner suitable for reproduction. Use it or don't at your discretion.

mrf0rz1

logandarklighter wrote: »

[....]

Banner suitable for reproduction. Use it or don't at your discretion.

Very bad idea.

roughbearmattach

decorumfriends wrote: »

Honestly, I've found internet trolls ARE doing it for the attention, but not giving it to them doesn't stop them, it makes them try harder. The only way they ever get stopped is when someone in authority gives them the boot.

As a former NWN2 admin/dev/DM, I must concur. Sometimes, trolls that are ignored go to great lengths to ruin the fun of others.

Ignoring trolls is better than giving them attention, but they only stop when kicked out.

smoochan

The best thing, of course, would be if they had made the costume contest part of the power house work as follows.


Before you enter, there is a control panel; clicking it opens up a que window much like the alerts que. This has a list of all current instances of the theater, allowing you to join one of them, as well as the "create new" button. When you click the create new button it creates a new instance, and you the person who created it has moderating power over that instance.

Your moderating power gives you the following abilities:

-set others as sub-moderators, giving them the same abilities you have, minus this one.

-silence individuals, or all non-moderators at once, preventing them from using /say, /yell and /zone while in that specific instance; you can, of course, un-silence them as well.

-kick people out, effectively banning them from that specific numbered instance.



This not only has the effect of giving folks control over their contests, but it also relieves the need for GM involvement entirely. I mean shoot, players allready have the power to impose a 24-hour chat ban, so giving players this level control over a single instance should be fine as well.


So, you might ask, what if people abuse this? Well let's be honest, if the person running the contest kicks you out over some petty reason, why would you want to participate in their contest anyway?

decorumfriends

clcmercy has an angle:

Actually, in my experience....they do stop. It's difficult, but you simply refuse to even acknowledge their presence. Once ignored, you no longer hear their chatter...so it's just their running around you bumping and trying to get you to react to them. Once they find out you simply will not rise to their bait, they move on. The length of time it takes varies from troll to troll, but in the end....yes. They'll simply move on to someone else that'll lash out in anger faster.

As an individual, I'd agree. But at a publicly scheduled regular event? Nah, they know they're screwing with you whether you react or not. It's not like everyone can just fly off somewhere else.

towershield

agentnx5 wrote: »

It's not that simple, FlyingFinn.

I know you're just trying to be helpful here, but three issues:

1. You're kind of attempting doing Smackwell's job, are you not? That's up to him to make judgements call on moderation, not you nor I. We simply dispute the inconsistent, unjust, or mistaken decisions. And yeah, I've disputed some of his judgement calls, but ultimately this forum belongs Perfect World, and appointed volunteers (while given responsibility & duties) are ultimately under the discretion of the Chinese.

No, he's not attempting to do Smackwell's job. A friendly reminder from a fellow player to remove @handles to avoid being moderated is the very least anyone can do. Stop being purposely obtuse about the forum rules, or better yet try actually reading them yourself for once.


2. That said, I favor unrestricted free speech. If you're going to be an idiot or a jerk, being free to do so makes it obvious (i.e. YouTube). And others should be able to speak out against it. But these specific forums are not free.

Translation?


3. I recognize one of the names has been at it for as long as I've been playing, which is to say they are very well known, and GM Nefrit has been flat-out not reading and ignoring some of the tickets. Look up the topic I wrote asking them (politely, clearly and concisely) to fix the Need of Greed issue with the Takofanes Cache Lockboxes, and then later the same persistent annoyance with the Hovertank ones. Customer Service has listened to billing disputes such as those with the Hawkwings and the refunds (which shows that people like GM Arkiene do care & listen), but in most behavior issues they don't assist. You will get no official help with matters of scams/theft ("at your own risk" and thus a good reason to use the Auction House), people trolling your costume contests, or people abusing the chat ban system to silence you for 24 hrs. Therefore yes, I have a certain amount of pity for the author of this topic. They have reason to feel frustrated nothing is being done.

How are you so absolutely sure any of your tickets have been ignored? Is it because your loot system suggestion on the takofanes chests weren't implemented? What if these tickets about trollish players aren't seen until days later? What exactly are the GMs supposed to do about someone who disrupted an event a couple of days ago? It's one thing for a GM to read a ticket about a costume or name violation that was submitted days ago and hit that character with the genericizer, it's quite another to try to sift through chat logs from a couple of days ago and try to find evidence of disruptive behavior.


4. This topic is indeed against the forum rules, and while it is truthful and justified in this case, we cannot as a community allow public condemnation. Why? Because people can use it for good or ill, and without an appeals system, burden of proof, etc. it can be abused for ill.

Oh wow, you call out Finn as trying to do Smackwell's job and here you go doing it yourself. This bandwagon looks fun, let me try: You can't say this topic is justified because it simply isn't. Period.

If it seems like I pick on your posts a lot it's probably because you set yourself up for these sorts of rebuttals WAY too often.

fantasycharacter

[......] is a known troll from way back, especially if you PvP, he hangs out with the troll crowd.

Just lonely people, don't hate them, pity them.

battybattybats

As a forum moderator many years ago on the now long gone but once big site waroftheworldsonline.com when multiple competing new war of the worlds movies were announced in the same year (Dreamworks Cruise and Spielberg piece, Sony's never finished animated version of Jeff Wayne's musical concept-album, Timothy Hines British period-piece that used where possible actual locations from the book and another direct-to-dvd low-budget american film) we found lots of people started trolling and problems on the forum skyrocketed... but with some clever investigation we found lots of the so-called trolls were sock-puppets employed by rival groups trying to attack the reputation of and fan-base attitudes to the competition in order to harm the pre-release word-of-mouth hype of their competition. More than one of the films had these agents actively trolling on their behalf (and some were foolish enough to use company email accounts).

C.O. is a bussiness, a bussiness with competitors. It is entirely likely that some trolls are paid-trolls. This isn't remotely an uncommon thing, it has become a common marketing strategy, a spin-doctor tool used for corporate damage-control, a political tool to deflect or blunt grass-roots groups or hoodwink media reports on community attitudes. From town-hall meetings stacked with plants to plain-clothed police infiltrating peaceful protestors trying to cause violence (i especially loved the youtube video where a plain-clothes police officer is caught attacking police to give the police a reason to break up a protest because of his brand new police-issue boots).

Ignoring trolls doesn't stop people who get paid for trolling. People getting money for every false bad review of targeted products they post on amazon, every forum post they post attacking a specific movie or game or politician or organisation etc will not care about attention because they get paid regardless.

Welcome to the brave new world of bussiness within social media folks. It's been happening for years already.

originaltyger

battybattybats wrote: »

C.O. is a bussiness, a bussiness with competitors. It is entirely likely that some trolls are paid-trolls. This isn't remotely an uncommon thing, it has become a common marketing strategy, a spin-doctor tool used for corporate damage-control, a political tool to deflect or blunt grass-roots groups or hoodwink media reports on community attitudes. From town-hall meetings stacked with plants to plain-clothed police infiltrating peaceful protestors trying to cause violence (i especially loved the youtube video where a plain-clothes police officer is caught attacking police to give the police a reason to break up a protest because of his brand new police-issue boots).

Ignoring trolls doesn't stop people who get paid for trolling. People getting money for every false bad review of targeted products they post on amazon, every forum post they post attacking a specific movie or game or politician or organisation etc will not care about attention because they get paid regardless.

Welcome to the brave new world of bussiness within social media folks. It's been happening for years already.

Entirely likely? No. It's in the realm of possibility, about the same probability that the trolls are slime molds that attained sentience. But it's not likely.

No, if there's anyone in CO that are likely agent provocateurs for the competition, it's some of the doom and gloom sorts on the forums spouting that we need to quit playing CO. Sure there's legitimate grievances that people have with the game, but those are the people I'd group in your conspiracy theory.

Also, ignoring trolls may not always work, but it works wonders on most of them.

Also, in the unlikely event someone from Cryptic is reading this, here's a suggestion. Give us large hideouts, with 100 person capacity, decent lighting and enough room for a CC. Just use the auditorium from the PH, the Champs HQ and the dojo if the environment guys are too busy, give the owner the ability to invite/kick. Make them the same Zen price as a hideout and I guarantee you'll have a ton of sales with a minimum of actual work.

kojirohellfire

smoochan wrote: »

I think it's even more funny that people seem to have forgotten how to ignore other people without using some fancy /command.

Xaqchance,

Give them attention, and they will stay. This thread right here? This thread right here? The person who trolled your contest is looking at this thread right here with a big ol' smile on their face, their chest bursting with pride that they got to you this much.

By glorifying their exploits with a multi-post spread, you just encouraged them to do it again... good job.

decorumfriends wrote: »

Honestly, I've found internet trolls ARE doing it for the attention, but not giving it to them doesn't stop them, it makes them try harder. The only way they ever get stopped is when someone in authority gives them the boot.

clcmercy wrote: »

Actually, in my experience....they do stop. It's difficult, but you simply refuse to even acknowledge their presence. Once ignored, you no longer hear their chatter...so it's just their running around you bumping and trying to get you to react to them. Once they find out you simply will not rise to their bait, they move on. The length of time it takes varies from troll to troll, but in the end....yes. They'll simply move on to someone else that'll lash out in anger faster.

Because yes. That's all they want to do, is get a rise out of their victims. Deny them that, and you'll hurt them ever so much more than banning or chatsilencing them ever will.


Also, it's a free to play game. Ban one account, another will simply be created. Banning them feeds their trollish egos.

roughbearmattach wrote: »

As a former NWN2 admin/dev/DM, I must concur. Sometimes, trolls that are ignored go to great lengths to ruin the fun of others.

Ignoring trolls is better than giving them attention, but they only stop when kicked out.

In recent years, I've found it more amusing and entertaining to out-troll the trolls (I've had a lifetime of experience with... difficult people). Some I've found immediately stop and come to respect you. Others (which are most), I've found have incredibly short tempers and begin all-out flaming you which makes petitioning action against them all the more easier....

nepht

If those two impede other players from playing the game they should both be banned. Its in the terms of service and these two idiots constantly break the rules.

smoochan

battybattybats wrote: »

As a forum moderator many years ago on the now long gone but once big site waroftheworldsonline.com when multiple competing new war of the worlds movies were announced in the same year (Dreamworks Cruise and Spielberg piece, Sony's never finished animated version of Jeff Wayne's musical concept-album, Timothy Hines British period-piece that used where possible actual locations from the book and another direct-to-dvd low-budget american film) we found lots of people started trolling and problems on the forum skyrocketed... but with some clever investigation we found lots of the so-called trolls were sock-puppets employed by rival groups trying to attack the reputation of and fan-base attitudes to the competition in order to harm the pre-release word-of-mouth hype of their competition. More than one of the films had these agents actively trolling on their behalf (and some were foolish enough to use company email accounts).

C.O. is a bussiness, a bussiness with competitors. It is entirely likely that some trolls are paid-trolls. This isn't remotely an uncommon thing, it has become a common marketing strategy, a spin-doctor tool used for corporate damage-control, a political tool to deflect or blunt grass-roots groups or hoodwink media reports on community attitudes. From town-hall meetings stacked with plants to plain-clothed police infiltrating peaceful protestors trying to cause violence (i especially loved the youtube video where a plain-clothes police officer is caught attacking police to give the police a reason to break up a protest because of his brand new police-issue boots).

Ignoring trolls doesn't stop people who get paid for trolling. People getting money for every false bad review of targeted products they post on amazon, every forum post they post attacking a specific movie or game or politician or organisation etc will not care about attention because they get paid regardless.

Welcome to the brave new world of bussiness within social media folks. It's been happening for years already.

This would make sense if CO had any competitors that would feel threatened by it.

smoochan

nepht wrote: »

If those two impede other players from playing the game they should both be banned. Its in the terms of service and these two idiots constantly break the rules.

They should hire a GM to watch costume contests.

They.... they should hire a GM period...

blademaster5121

My signature explains all.

mrf0rz1

smoochan wrote: »

They should hire a GM to watch costume contests.

They.... they should hire a GM period...

AHA! Touche!

EDIT: What the $%?? these forums don't even allow letters with accents.

mainscrizz

lol lmfao,
I guess some people never heard of don't feed the troll.
doesn't matter what you do. trolls will always be there.

they feed on attention and knowing that someone is raging makes them want to troll even more. lmfao

logandarklighter

I am simply astounded at the lack of response by Cryptic to this topic.

I put up a post specifically to see how long it would take to get edited. I knew it was against the rules. The OP's post is supposedly against the rules.

It's now been 2 days - shading into 3, and still no response. Still no edits.

So not only do we have no GMs, but we have no forum moderators either.

If I were a troll or flamer, I'd be ecstatic to have found an official company game forum that has sunk to a completely un-policed state, and I'd be telling all my troll friends to begin posting en masse here.

As it is, I'm just sad and disgusted. Has there ever been a game as thoroughly ABANDONED as Champions Online in the MMO world without a total shut-down?

jonsills

Logan, there is one Cryptic employee tasked with communicating with us. And like most of the Cryptic folks, he's been off a lot this past week. (Today is New Year's Day, you know.)

There are two volunteer mods, Smackwell and O.Farmer, but I imagine they've been with their families, not just haunting the forums like some of us losers.

And pointing out that you've deliberately violated the posting policies might not have been the wisest decision you've made so far this year...

smoochan

How dare forum moderators take time off for the holidays? Don't they know that policing minor offenses on a forum is the most important thing they could be doing with their time? I mean god dammit, what exactly are we paying these people $0.00 per hour for exactly? Get back ta work ye bums!

xcaligax

Unfortunately there will always be trolls. The best thing to do in this situation is too simply not pay attention to them, act as if they are not there. Discouragement and lack of attention are the best weapons against a troll. If you act like they aren't there, then all he is simply doing is wasting his time. And of course, time is one thing you can never get back.

STAMP OF APPROVAL!!

mensar

Actually...

I've been to several CCs and haven't seen these two.

I've helped judge even more CCs and haven't seen these two.

I'm wondering if this is really epidemic, or if it's just a couple kids trying to get your goat?

Not that I'm downplaying it.

Immature kids will be kids. Making them infamous in the forums may get them (and their SGs) on several blacklists and ignored by a few dozen people. But ultimately it's going to fuel their efforts.

PWE isn't exactly quick-on-the-draw when it comes to dolling out punishment for behavior issues.

Best bet: Ignore them.

trailturtle

Folks, kindly remember that name 'n' shame is against the rules. I've cleaned out this thread, but rest assured, I've given the unchanged versions to Customer Support. They are the proper group to pass this to, or my PM box.

originaltyger wrote: »

Give us large hideouts, with 100 person capacity, decent lighting and enough room for a CC. Just use the auditorium from the PH, the Champs HQ and the dojo if the environment guys are too busy, give the owner the ability to invite/kick. Make them the same Zen price as a hideout and I guarantee you'll have a ton of sales with a minimum of actual work.

This is something we've kicked around, but my understanding is that there are some under-the-surface tech issues with it that would take some time to resolve. It's also worthwhile to note that, even if it were simple to program the super-hideouts themselves, that'd be one sale per approximately twenty people who use them. We'd probably want to build them into part of a larger system of player housing.

(That second point is entirely conjecture and my own assessment, btw, I don't speak for the devs on it.)

thalast1

I love that Trailturtle is "keeping up appearances" that Champions has a significant development budget/team.

Let's hope that player housing system happend some day wink wink.

smoochan

trailturtle wrote: »

Folks, kindly remember that name 'n' shame is against the rules. I've cleaned out this thread, but rest assured, I've given the unchanged versions to Customer Support. They are the proper group to pass this to, or my PM box.

...que people naming and shaming because they think it will get trailturtle to address their issue personally

forutnefire

Appreciate the update and communication TrailTurtle. Thank you.

logandarklighter

trailturtle wrote: »

Folks, kindly remember that name 'n' shame is against the rules. I've cleaned out this thread, but rest assured, I've given the unchanged versions to Customer Support. They are the proper group to pass this to, or my PM box.

Good on you, sir. I mean that with all respect and no sarcasm. My post mentioned above was INTENDED to be edited.

Now as a suggestion - the next time you talk with your bosses, why don't you mention that the boards - and the game itself - could use some extra policing, and that you can't do it all by yourself (or even with help from Smackwell, etc) and that they should HIRE some new people to help out with it.

If this thread gives you even slightly more moral and logical ammunition in such an argument, so much the better.

logandarklighter

jonsills wrote: »

Logan, there is one Cryptic employee tasked with communicating with us. And like most of the Cryptic folks, he's been off a lot this past week. (Today is New Year's Day, you know.)

There are two volunteer mods, Smackwell and O.Farmer, but I imagine they've been with their families, not just haunting the forums like some of us losers.

My POINT exactly. On other official forums I've seen/been a part of, there would have been one or two extra people pulling the duty as a skeleton crew. Probably new-hires or people who wanted the extra money/overtime.

The fact that they don't even have THAT here is what's astounding.

I wish I could also say that I'm astounded at you COMPLETELY missing the point. But having seen your talent for the obtuse in many threads recently, I can't say I'm all that surprised.

And pointing out that you've deliberately violated the posting policies might not have been the wisest decision you've made so far this year...

It's called "Civil disobedience". I went in with eyes open and ready and willing to be smacked down for it - just to make my point.

Thank you for helping me make it.

towershield

logandarklighter wrote: »

My POINT exactly. On other official forums I've seen/been a part of, there would have been one or two extra people pulling the duty as a skeleton crew. Probably new-hires or people who wanted the extra money/overtime.

The fact that they don't even have THAT here is what's astounding.

I wish I could also say that I'm astounded at you COMPLETELY missing the point. But having seen your talent for the obtuse in many threads recently, I can't say I'm all that surprised.



It's called "Civil disobedience". I went in with eyes open and ready and willing to be smacked down for it - just to make my point.

Thank you for helping me make it.

"Jokes on you guys, I was only pretending."

Uh huh.

mensar

trailturtle wrote: »

Folks, kindly remember that name 'n' shame is against the rules. I've cleaned out this thread, but rest assured, I've given the unchanged versions to Customer Support. They are the proper group to pass this to, or my PM box.



This is something we've kicked around, but my understanding is that there are some under-the-surface tech issues with it that would take some time to resolve. It's also worthwhile to note that, even if it were simple to program the super-hideouts themselves, that'd be one sale per approximately twenty people who use them. We'd probably want to build them into part of a larger system of player housing.

(That second point is entirely conjecture and my own assessment, btw, I don't speak for the devs on it.)

You could always make the CC hideouts instance based and the first-person into the instance can invite whomever else they want in.

Hopefully the Customer Service section moves quickly in this to make an example for others.

ashensnow

logandarklighter wrote: »

It's called "Civil disobedience". I went in with eyes open and ready and willing to be smacked down for it - just to make my point.

No, its not called civil disobedience.

Going onto someone else's private property and breaking their house rules after you have agreed to abide by them is in no way, shape, or form, "civil disobedience." Its called being a bad guest.

And you made no point whatsoever. We have known for years now that the forums are, essentially, unmoderated on weekends and holidays. Telling us that the sky is blue is not making a point, its stating the obvious.

logandarklighter

ashensnow wrote: »

No, its not called civil disobedience.

Going onto someone else's private property and breaking their house rules after you have agreed to abide by them is in no way, shape, or form, "civil disobedience." Its called being a bad guest.

This is not "private property" in the sense that you are purposefully misusing and stretching the term. These are public forums. I am not a guest. I am a paying subscriber. And my money is being misused.

I want my money that I pay to this game used on THIS GAME.

We have known for years now that the forums are, essentially, unmoderated on weekends and holidays. Telling us that the sky is blue is not making a point, its stating the obvious.

Then perhaps that status quo should CHANGE.

crypticbuxom

trailturtle wrote: »

It's also worthwhile to note that, even if it were simple to program the super-hideouts themselves, that'd be one sale per approximately twenty people who use them. We'd probably want to build them into part of a larger system of player housing.

As to how many people out of how many buy vehicles.

jennymachx

crypticbuxom wrote: »

As to how many people out of how many buy vehicles.

That was uncalled for.

It's like some of you just take every opportunity to snark at a Cryptic representative, especially when he's not even a dev, not the one to blame for marketing decisions we don't like and most especially when he recognized the problem and made the effort to communicate with us.

EDIT: Anyway, with regards to the topic: It doesn't surprise me considering the ingame behavior of one of the two whom were named as reflected by his behavior in a certain section of the forums in the past.

I've been the subject of harrassment before and actually had Cryptic respond to my report and I know the individual responsible was dealt with quite promptly. It looks to me that trailturtle is willing to do the same or at least forward the report to the proper party , so my thanks goes to him.

cellarrat33

logandarklighter wrote: »

This is not "private property" in the sense that you are purposefully misusing and stretching the term. These are public forums. I am not a guest. I am a paying subscriber. And my money is being misused....

*** Eagerly awaiting ashensnow's response to this hanging curveball of a misstatement.

:cool:

**EDIT: Okay. shieldtower's response will work also.

towershield

logandarklighter wrote: »

This is not "private property" in the sense that you are purposefully misusing and stretching the term. These are public forums. I am not a guest. I am a paying subscriber. And my money is being misused.

I want my money that I pay to this game used on THIS GAME.



Then perhaps that status quo should CHANGE.

This is not a public forum in the sense that you are purposefully misusing and stretching the term. They(Cryptic/PWE) own them, they set the rules and we are required to follow them or risk losing the privilege of being able to post here. Being a paying customer is neither a license to act like a dingus nor will it protect you from being banned, edited or moderated.

If you want to be taken seriously, stop stomping your feet angrily and causing a ruckus. That's just as bad as the behavior of the individuals that were pointed out as being CC trolls.

ashensnow

logandarklighter wrote: »

This is not "private property" in the sense that you are purposefully misusing and stretching the term. These are public forums. I am not a guest. I am a paying subscriber. And my money is being misused.

Actually it is private property just as I stated. These forums are wholly owned by Cryptic/PW. They allow us to use them. Cryptic does not charge for access to these forums. Access to these forums is entirely separate from access to the game. This has been demonstrated by bans handed out here that do not carry over to the game.

As to your money being misused... Once you give your money to a company it is theirs to do with as they wish. If you do not like what someone else does with THEIR money (its not yours any more) then stop giving them your money.

logandarklighter wrote: »

I want my money that I pay to this game used on THIS GAME.

You do not pay money to this game. You pay it to Cryptic/PW. Cryptic/PW does spend (some of) the money we spend on THIS GAME on THIS GAME. I can assure you, even without access to their records, that the staff (limited as it might be) does not work for free.

If it makes you feel any better feel free to assume that your $15 a month is going into CO while other peoples' sub fees are going to NWO and STO.

I have seen nothing to indicate that money put into developing CO would produce a greater return on investment than if it were put elsewhere. Have you ? Is CO such a success, with many tens or hundreds of thousands of people eager to spend money on it, that investing revenue in this game instead of STO/NWO is obviously the best choice ?

Do you think that Coca Cola spends all of the $1.69 you spend on a 20oz bottle of Classic Coke back into Classic Coke ? No they do what any business with a successful product does...fill an Olympic swimming pool with hundred dollar bills and hookers for the CEO.

Joking aside, a business that has two (or more) ways of reinvesting its revenue in its products will generally do so in the manner that will produce the greater return. Do you honestly think that CO will produce the greater return of PW's various products ?

logandarklighter wrote: »

Then perhaps that status quo should CHANGE.

If those who own the property desire for it to change, and are willing to act on that desire, it will.

I do find it odd that someone worried about the amount of money being put into CO as a game is interested in diverting even more resources away from the game itself.