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The Final Nail
logandarklighter
Posts: 334 Arc User
City of Heroes Post-Mortem with Matt "Positron" Miller
At about 10 minutes into the interview Matt "Positron" Miller has just been asked where many of the Paragon Studios developers have gone. He mentions a few of them and that at least one went to EA, then we get this bit here at the 11:20 mark -
Matt "Positron" Miller:"...and I know that two of them, two of the designers have actually come out and publicly stated where they are which is working at Cryptic on Star Trek Online and that was Arbiter Hawk and Dr. Aeon are working on Star Trek Online for Cryptic. So if you like the content they made for City of Heroes then you can hop on over to Star Trek and see similar stuff."
Interviewer Bill Murphy: "Which, by the way I gotta say, Star Trek has become a fabulous game over the years. It started off rough, but it's great now!"
Matt "Positron" Miller: "You know a lot of people asked in the last days of City of Heroes - you know we do live-stream chats and stuff - they said, "What game can we go to that can give me that feeling of City of Heroes?" And honestly, Star Trek Online's probably the closest one out there."
Bill Murphy: "Yes."
Matt "Positron" Miller: "You have a mission creator, you've got costumes, you've got good action, combat, and uh... "
Bill Murphy: "The storyline that comes every so often, their episodes...'
Matt "Positron" Miller: "Story arcs and things like that, you know. They've got two sides - Feds and Klingons, so yeah."
No mention of Champions Online. If he was going to mention it, then that moment right there that I transcribed above was the only time during the 51 minute interview when he would most likely have. And he did not.
He mentioned STAR TREK and the fact that they have a FOUNDRY - a way for players to create new content.
Not to mention the fact that STO actually HAS a development cycle where CO... doesn't.
STO is apparently the first thing that came to his mind when recommending a game for COH players, and not CO.
I'd say that's pretty telling, right there.
The post title is in reference to both City of Heroes AND Champions Online. But it doesn't have to be.
Cryptic - you can still prove us wrong by pulling all the devs that used to work on Champions Online BACK after NWN goes live and giving us a renaissance. By pouring the love into Champions Online that it deserves. By taking advantage of the fact that you still have people who WANT to love this game - both those who have been here from the start as well as COH refugees - and would give it another chance - if only YOU would give it another chance!
Do I think that's going to happen?
Pfft....
No.
But I'd be more than happy to be a Corvus Corax gourmand if you placed it in front of me.
At about 10 minutes into the interview Matt "Positron" Miller has just been asked where many of the Paragon Studios developers have gone. He mentions a few of them and that at least one went to EA, then we get this bit here at the 11:20 mark -
Matt "Positron" Miller:"...and I know that two of them, two of the designers have actually come out and publicly stated where they are which is working at Cryptic on Star Trek Online and that was Arbiter Hawk and Dr. Aeon are working on Star Trek Online for Cryptic. So if you like the content they made for City of Heroes then you can hop on over to Star Trek and see similar stuff."
Interviewer Bill Murphy: "Which, by the way I gotta say, Star Trek has become a fabulous game over the years. It started off rough, but it's great now!"
Matt "Positron" Miller: "You know a lot of people asked in the last days of City of Heroes - you know we do live-stream chats and stuff - they said, "What game can we go to that can give me that feeling of City of Heroes?" And honestly, Star Trek Online's probably the closest one out there."
Bill Murphy: "Yes."
Matt "Positron" Miller: "You have a mission creator, you've got costumes, you've got good action, combat, and uh... "
Bill Murphy: "The storyline that comes every so often, their episodes...'
Matt "Positron" Miller: "Story arcs and things like that, you know. They've got two sides - Feds and Klingons, so yeah."
No mention of Champions Online. If he was going to mention it, then that moment right there that I transcribed above was the only time during the 51 minute interview when he would most likely have. And he did not.
He mentioned STAR TREK and the fact that they have a FOUNDRY - a way for players to create new content.
Not to mention the fact that STO actually HAS a development cycle where CO... doesn't.
STO is apparently the first thing that came to his mind when recommending a game for COH players, and not CO.
I'd say that's pretty telling, right there.
The post title is in reference to both City of Heroes AND Champions Online. But it doesn't have to be.
Cryptic - you can still prove us wrong by pulling all the devs that used to work on Champions Online BACK after NWN goes live and giving us a renaissance. By pouring the love into Champions Online that it deserves. By taking advantage of the fact that you still have people who WANT to love this game - both those who have been here from the start as well as COH refugees - and would give it another chance - if only YOU would give it another chance!
Do I think that's going to happen?
Pfft....
No.
But I'd be more than happy to be a Corvus Corax gourmand if you placed it in front of me.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I don't think so. If that were the case - why mention Star Trek? That's helping Cryptic. He apparently has no problems with that.
But then everything that I've been hearing about Cryptic so far is that they're anything but sensible.
Indeed. I can't even believe Jon actually thought it was a good idea to hit submit on such an obviously shoddy and flawed excuse. But if there's one thing I've noticed so far here is that Mr. Sills will do anything to play cheerleader for Cryptic.
You've noticed that too? I thought maybe it was just the way I was reading his posts..
Believe me - I'd LOVE to play cheerleader for Cryptic.
But they'd have to earn it. And they haven't.
"Okay, one of the highest grossing movies this year was the Avengers, our one direct competition is dead..........but I'm still not quite sure this super hero thing is worth it"
Now you could say that he would show some devotion to his fans by sending them to a super hero game that would actually give them more of a CoH feel than a star trek game... but I guess in this case, helping his friends won out over being honest with the fans.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Unfortunately this doesn't fix the core issue: Cryptic's neglect of Champions Online.
And, if he thinks (as some do) that CO is in maintenance mode, or on life support, he might have thought that sending people here would be a disservice to those who supported him for so very long.
Or he may just not think highly of CO as a game (I like it, doesn't mean that everyone has to).
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I actually used to play cheerleader for Cryptic in other game forums (you know, were it actually counts, since I was defending Cryptic outside its home turf, were it REALLY needs defending from all the haters playing other games) but then I took a lockbox to the knee :rolleyes:
Did you watch the entire video or just stop when Champions wasn't plugged? Your little blog in the youtube comments really paints a picture of someone who missed the entire point of the interview and is just trying to soapbox.
I will admit that i am watching matt and melissa, and where they go, i will follow. I really wish paragon would reform and make an offline superhero skyrim-ish game, why the bloody blue hell isn't there one yet? Yes, infamous was nice, but more than just lightning/ice/fire powers and playing some x-games looking bike messenger.
How quaint.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Yes. I watched it the entire way through. I watched it twice. Once to hear everything he had to say, and a second time just to make certain I missed nothing important. (Like any mentions of other games).
Plus, some of the later responses in the video were just downright laugh out loud funny. And I mean that in a good way.
Quit being deliberately obtuse. CO wasn't mentioned because Cryptic isn't sending any meaningful development here. It's all going to Neverwinter and STO (such as the ex-Paragon hires which Matt mentions). As pointed out repeatedly, we seem to only have two(?) developers on CO. With CoH gone, Cryptic could have capitalized on CO since it's the most logical game for CoH players to go, because as you say it's a game about superheroes. They didn't. It all went to their other two games instead.
The OP is not upset over Matt not mentioning CO, but the fact that Matt's lack of mention of it only helps highlight that Cryptic is not sending this game any resources. So your attempts to paint Matt as petty and hide Cryptic's management faults prove that you are a cheerleader, just like all the other posts you make when you jump to defend Cryptic whenever it is criticized on its neglect of CO.
Where is he anyway? I miss his posts.
Just to be clear, are you referring to me, here? Or to another poster upstream?
Just in case it's me -
I don't ascribe any hostility to Matt whatsoever. I think if he was thinking about his answer as anything other than honestly giving an opinion about a game that would give COH people what they were looking for, that at worst, he's boosting STO because a couple of former COH devs are there. And there's nothing wrong with that.
If that's not the case, than what I am implying by highlighting his statement is that he is weighing the pros and cons as objectively as he could and came to the conclusion that STO has more to offer than CO.
Which if you look at it, really is just the cold hard facts.
*WINCES*
Ow... felt that from way over here...
PRECISELY THIS.
Look folks - don't get me wrong here. I do NOT want to be negative about this game. I still enjoy playing it.
But I do NOT want ANOTHER superhero game shot out from under me!
If that means occasionally beating Cryptic about the head and shoulders to get them to see that their business model is WRONG WRONG WRONG than I'm going to do it!
The beatings will continue until development improves!
I think from the flow of the questions, you could assume that he's looking out for his friends. Why would you assume he's not being honest with the fans though?
He was very specific about things that STO has in common with COH, mainly in terms of game mechanisms. That's objectively true.
Mind you - the point about it being Sci-Fi rather than superheroes and that CO is still the best option for COH players in terms of character building still stands.
But that's not really his point as I see it. My interpretation is that he's looking at it from the POV of a developer who understands how the business works. I'd say that colors his response more than the genre assumptions.
Ditto...
That is why many CoX players went to that other Secret game... despite being a different genre, but they have constant content update, with great storylines.
If I want to continue my hero chars, CO is without a doubt the best option... even with all the problems.
If I want to be able to use the mechanics described by Matt Miller... then CO is not an option.
It's getting dumb. I think both sides should get together and declare a truce.
/laughtrack
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
It's more like 1,5 factions, not 2, to be absolutely honest. Cryptic neglected Klingons to the point when they are CO of the STO game. They have like... One costume set, to this day, and their signature ships are one after another copied to the Fed crybabies side.
Which is why I ditched STO, as I'm not interested in FED side.
Saying that STO has 2 factions is simply giving Cryptic too much credit.
I'm not interested in STO, I'll never be spending money on this game.
Neither I'm interested in NWN, I won't be buying anything (also, won't be playing this one) from NWN store.
The only way for me spending any money on Cryptic game is spending them on CO, so unless Cryptic finally makes this game worthwile, I won't be spending money at Cryptic games at all.
Those are fair points.
As for giving Cryptic credit for doing right by STO as a whole, well I'm not even sure about that.
It's like this - if someone holds a gun to your head and says "I want you to say that Cher is the greatest singer ever." Do you get credit for it if you say that? Does anyone think you believe it? No of course not. (Sorry if anyone is a Cher fan out there, the metaphor is just the first thing that popped into my mind.)
I wonder if the only reason STO is getting as much development as they do (even with the problems you mentioned) is that CBS and Paramount are holding their "gun" to Cryptic's head. They'd lose the IP license if they treated STO as poorly as they do CO. Without that metaphorical "gun" held to their head, I think STO would be down in the basement with CO.
Oh, you know that's the reason.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Setting genre aside, STO is the most like CoX. We've lost our new storylines with the death of the Comic Series and, ummm, the foundry... what's that again? I haven't seen it...
And yeah... it's sad...
I still love CO though, warts and all...
:redface:
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
And, well, he is pretty right about STO too. Its not quite as character customizable as here or CoX, but they hit the other notes pretty well.
Well to be fair - the focus in the character builders is completely different. In STO all the outfits (aside from civvies and "merc" outfits) are supposed to be variations on uniforms. (Nevermind that KDF side STILL has no civvie options... But at least with them the options you already have aren't very "uniform strict" anyway.)
And as far as customization - it's in the faces and builds where STO really shines. Particularly if you choose "alien" as your race and open the possibilities up.
Mind you - you do still wind up with "humans with funny heads/foreheads" instead of true aliens a lot because the CC doesn't do "non-humanoid" but that does fit the specific genre and IP to a "t". (Would love it if you could actually play some of the non-humanoid alien races, but I do understand why that would be very difficult to model in an MMO. Then again - COH had Kheldians, and STO has a lot of non-humanoid critters in the model files... Hm... )
I've always thought that if you combined the possibilities of the two character creator models - say for example - bring the face textures and sliders over to CO, you'd REALLY have something even more special than what you have now in the CC. (which even with the bland face options, is still impressive.)
Hang on - just a minute.
Trailturtle has been one of the better Reps we've had.
Right AT THE MOMENT - consider the SEASON.
You think anyone is IN THE OFFICE? On their own time? On the weekend before Christmas?
Now I'm as ready to jump down the collective throats of Cryptic as anyone. But let's just hold off a LITTLE bit. Wait until the day after Christmas and let peeps come back to the office and let's see what they do then, okay?
Just wanted to remind people of that. There's a holiday on. And while I'd love it if we really did have people dedicated enough to the game so it could be staffed 24/7 - the fact is - we probably only have TWO GUYS minding the store for Champions.
Give em a chance to catch up a little bit from the holidays, that's all.
Stuff like this is why I have a hard time taking some of the stuff thrown about here seriously. It's almost becoming a parody of itself.
i understand what your saying. the thing is this has been going on for months not just happened.
Oh yes, I know. I've seen it. But I just wanted to temper your expectations just for the moment because even with a company that did have full staff, I'd extend a little slack. And with only a skeleton crew running things, well...
Champions is in a weird spot for me in terms of what I want to do just for the next few days. I am disappointed with the overall neglect from the corporation/company. But I don't want to give unnecessary stress to the little guys jogging as fast as they can on the hamster wheels keeping the servers going. :P
I really do feel sorry for the people who currently run Champions "down in the trenches." It's got to be tough. I want to rail and scream at their bosses. I don't want to hate on them. The bosses aren't going to hear anything at all until after Christmas anyway. And the peons can't do a thing for us even if they might want to.
I hope you get what I'm trying to say here. Does that make sense?
Aha, no worries. Gotcha.
Some of the legacy devices are absurd when stacked. Pheromones are probably the biggest problem balance-wise of the legacy devices. Why the legacy items were made into devices instead of kept as regular gear baffles me.
Imbue's shift to an active offense has showed gross negligence and/or incompetence. First patch after the change it didn't give a break-free effect and it couldn't be used while held. The "fix" gave it 12 break-free damage (as opposed to the usual 1700ish) and it STILL cannot be used while held, which is kinda important for a breakfree. Being able to use it while held.
PTS had the winter event for a bit. People gave their feedback. A couple days later there was a patch with a some fixes. All is fine and dandy except someone forgot to flip the switch and activate the winter event on PTS. This was caught right away by the players and mentioned, yet over a WEEK later the event still wasn't active for additional testing.
These are just a few of the things which have really made me wonder just what the heck CO has in store for its future...
Most play as Feds BUT they like the fact that they are not forced to be the good guys if they want to roll a Klingon toon they can.
Having the options even if most wont use it does actually make a difference. People like choice.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
This game doesn't have a villain faction because the majority of players suck at pvp.
And implementing a 2nd faction would come along with some type of open world pvp
and god forbid, a poor rper could accidentially queue for such min/maxing madness and die.. Since the rp kids are a funny folk and believe that their toons and themselves are 1 and the same person... it makes me wonder, if these people are getting killed in a game do they die irl, too?
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell
In city of Hereos I never PvP'd or RP'd neither did my crew. We just did the PvE content of both sides. Lets not turns this into another PvP/RP fight because most of the players cant be arsed with either.
Fact is with the foundry AND the different factions STO offers a lot more choice thats why more players will go to STO over CO. But we also have to remember STO is the newer game so you would expect it to be better.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I agree, but also keep in mind that the ones who are usually against a 2nd fac. are the rp non pvp players.
Is that true?
Mmmm I want a second faction... I'm a rper... and we had some wonderful RP PVP events during last year on CoH, thanks to United Underworld.
This may shock you... but some of us do enjoy both activities... the difference is... I don't mind LOSING in pvp or obsess about it, as long as we all have a good time.
Again this isnt about RP or PvP most mmo players dont care for either this is about STO getting more love from the Cryptic devs.
I know a lot of role players here in Champions and they are mostly for an evil faction but again this isnt what we are talking about here.
This is about CO's lack of devs and thus its lack of choice and content.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
STO has two factions, and no open world pvp, only few special pvp zones. It also has roleplaying people playing at so-called "evil" Klingon side, I'd even say that they're in general more matured and lore friendly in their rp that Feds.
You're right that it doesn't have to require it but, it's one of those weird things about some people where they don't want it but, say that we have to have it if there's multiple factions because not being able to stop the bad guys ruins their immersion even though they don't want to PvP. Kinda makes me wonder how they get anything done in the game with having to stop to fight every single bad guy NPC on the map between where they currently are and the location of their quests unless flying right past those ones somehow doesn't ruin immersion.
As far as them being more friendly and mature klingon side, I can only hazard the guess that it's because there's less of them around so they have to play nicer with each other or they won't have anyone to play with. Same thing happens on any faction based game where any one side is much more populated than the other.