Uhhh, then isn't that right there a viable argument for ATs AS IS to continue to exist?
I mean if they (potential subscribers) are not sure of the content, why not just have them roll ATs to try out the content?
Uhhhh no, it's not an argument for ATs to exist at all. It's an argument the thing they (potential subscribers) find most interesting that might draw them into the game is gated behind two payment options of which neither is appealing. That's an argument that doesn't directly relate to the existence or absence of ATs at all. It's completely about going F2P to attract more players while taking your most unique gameplay element and making it explicitly not F2P...a model I don't see any of the more successful F2P games using.
Either it's a very lucrative and player-attracting/retaining model that the other companies have no clue about so they don't use it, or it's a model that doesn't support player attraction/retention and doesn't generate the desired revenue which is why the other companies don't do it...
Or perhaps it's an incentive to play other F2P games where the primary game mechanics are F2P in nature with the cash-shop being truly supplementary in nature instead of being the door to the "real" game. In other words, in other F2P games the game is free, you can buy extra stuff. In this game the impression (rightly so or not) is that the F2P is a demo to the real game of "be the hero you want to be" that you have to pay for.
Does anyone know any people who didn't manage to get a Freeform Slot from the Freeform Grab Bag event, who then stopped playing once the grab bags went away? I personally don't. But if I hadn't gotten one, I might have stopped playing.
Conversly, does anyone know any people who didn't manage to get the slot, but continued playing? I actually know several people who didn't get any slots, and still don't have any, but continue to play.
Does anyone know any people who actually farmed out a ff slot completely with questionite? I only know one person who was trying to... they got to about 2000 before they gave up and just decided to buy another archetype.
Does anyone know someone who doesn't care about freeform characters? I know a couple people like this too. Some of them can be attributed to never having tried freeform, but some are gold players who prefer to play archetypes. I don't understand them personally.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Uhhhh no, it's not an argument for ATs to exist at all. It's an argument the thing they (potential subscribers) find most interesting that might draw them into the game is gated behind two payment options of which neither is appealing. That's an argument that doesn't directly relate to the existence or absence of ATs at all. It's completely about going F2P to attract more players while taking your most unique gameplay element and making it explicitly not F2P...a model I don't see any of the more successful F2P games using.
Either it's a very lucrative and player-attracting/retaining model that the other companies have no clue about so they don't use it, or it's a model that doesn't support player attraction/retention and doesn't generate the desired revenue which is why the other companies don't do it...
Or perhaps it's an incentive to play other F2P games where the primary game mechanics are F2P in nature with the cash-shop being truly supplementary in nature instead of being the door to the "real" game. In other words, in other F2P games the game is free, you can buy extra stuff. In this game the impression (rightly so or not) is that the F2P is a demo to the real game of "be the hero you want to be" that you have to pay for.
Interesting. I always thought the F2P was the fact that all the content was free and not necessarily the classes.
Though honestly with how little there is of content updates in this game, that would probably drive others away from this game.
Regardless I don't agree with the OP. ATs don't need to go away, for the simple reason that some folks actually do play them.
If there had never been a COH there would never have been a CO. :cool:
Does anyone know any people who didn't manage to get a Freeform Slot from the Freeform Grab Bag event, who then stopped playing once the grab bags went away? I personally don't. But if I hadn't gotten one, I might have stopped playing.
Conversly, does anyone know any people who didn't manage to get the slot, but continued playing? I actually know several people who didn't get any slots, and still don't have any, but continue to play.
Does anyone know any people who actually farmed out a ff slot completely with questionite? I only know one person who was trying to... they got to about 2000 before they gave up and just decided to buy another archetype.
Does anyone know someone who doesn't care about freeform characters? I know a couple people like this too. Some of them can be attributed to never having tried freeform, but some are gold players who prefer to play archetypes. I don't understand them personally.
Wouldn't surprise me if those folks in the last category who came from a game with pure classes and feel more comfortable with that. AKA don't want to go into the hassle of learning about how to build a proper FF character.
If there had never been a COH there would never have been a CO. :cool:
Does anyone know someone who doesn't care about freeform characters? I know a couple people like this too. Some of them can be attributed to never having tried freeform, but some are gold players who prefer to play archetypes. I don't understand them personally.
I actually subscribed for a three month period, so I automagically get freeform slots. Y'know what I do? I build AT's with them. The only thing I do differently is the stat boost picks. I always start out with "The Hero" package and then pick "Jack of all Trades" and move on to any other stat boost that has more than two stats in the package. THAT'S IT. Otherwise, I might as well be playing AT's.
I'm under no illusion that there should even be an "incentive to go gold" at this point in the game's life cycle. Most of the F2P games that are doing well don't have their primary hook gated behind a cost, only supplemental stuff has a cost associated with it.
This game is one of the few exceptions were the main hook is locked behind the very thing that F2P seeks to make more money by removing...a subscription.
TBH it doesn't make much sense and the argument against just making freeform part of the base F2P game is almost always something along the lines of "it'll make subscribers mad" or "it'll cause a drop in subs".
To the first point that it'll make subscribers mad. So what. All 12 of the ones who aren't lifers will get mad and that vast revenue will be lost. For the ones that are lifers well nuts, guess they'll have to unsub...
As to the later about it causing a drop in subs. So what. Most of the people I know who left the game and weren't lifers didn't even leave because there was no new content. They left because they weren't willing to pay a sub for the best part of the game. Lose a few subs, gain people that wanted freeform without paying $50 for a restricted version or paying a sub to lose it when they unsub.
It's something to consider, but if the argument is to prevent an increasingly smaller subset of customers from getting upset let's just park that reason on the curb along with their bags.
As to making part of the freeform free and the rest not? No, just stick to ATs then. Making part of it free just validates all of the P2W talk because let's face it, the powersets and/or the frameworks are not even remotely balanced enough against each other.
The latest big name to go Freemium, SWtOR, has provided the character story as its draw. This is arguably the best part of the game, which otherwise has nothing new or innovative about it. Their business model limits one's ability to actually enjoy the game play, however. For example: extra hot bars cost real money. Want to enjoy all 8 stories? Sub. You only get 2 characters slots and there is currently no option to buy character slots piecemeal. I could go on. However, my point is that free players in CO get a better deal than in some other games.
Ultimately the difference is in business model. CO is following an Asian model (go figure) with a minimalistic game for free, with gamble boxes. TOR's model seems designed on the idea of making the sub look more attractive by limiting access to many basic features and putting little Sub Now! icons on these things in game, so you don't forget it is there. CO basically gave up on making the sub attractive at FFA, the sole exception being pricing the FF slot at $50US.
Disclaimer: I'm not complaining about TOR's model, though I think their attempt to incentivize the sub is overdone. I am citing it for comparison purposes to make a statement about CO's.
_________________________________________________
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
I'm under no illusion that there should even be an "incentive to go gold" at this point in the game's life cycle. Most of the F2P games that are doing well don't have their primary hook gated behind a cost, only supplemental stuff has a cost associated with it.
This game is one of the few exceptions were the main hook is locked behind the very thing that F2P seeks to make more money by removing...a subscription.
TBH it doesn't make much sense and the argument against just making freeform part of the base F2P game is almost always something along the lines of "it'll make subscribers mad" or "it'll cause a drop in subs".
To the first point that it'll make subscribers mad. So what. All 12 of the ones who aren't lifers will get mad and that vast revenue will be lost. For the ones that are lifers well nuts, guess they'll have to unsub...
As to the later about it causing a drop in subs. So what. Most of the people I know who left the game and weren't lifers didn't even leave because there was no new content. They left because they weren't willing to pay a sub for the best part of the game. Lose a few subs, gain people that wanted freeform without paying $50 for a restricted version or paying a sub to lose it when they unsub.
It's something to consider, but if the argument is to prevent an increasingly smaller subset of customers from getting upset let's just park that reason on the curb along with their bags.
As to making part of the freeform free and the rest not? No, just stick to ATs then. Making part of it free just validates all of the P2W talk because let's face it, the powersets and/or the frameworks are not even remotely balanced enough against each other.
Well said.
I think the best tactic would be to get people attached to the game's best feature sot hat they want to stay, to buy every costume set, to buy extra character slots, to buy travel powers, and so on.
Freeform should be (again in my opinion) free for silvers. Use that amazing element of this game, its best feature IMO, to grab people and get them invested int heir characters.
Don't give out a free character slot every time a silver gets to 40. Use the desire to try different options on FF characters to drive sales of retcons and character slots. Make character slots cheaper than retcons though so that someone interested in trying out a new FF concept is encouraged to roll another toon rather than retcon their 40.
Leverage the game's best feature to sell add-ons. It works in other games, it works in other industries.
For subscribers....increase the stipend and put some serious effort into increasing the appeal of the z-store. Or....eliminate subscriptions. Current subs keep everything they have on their account and can buy new releases they desire from the z-store going forward. LTS ? A lump sum of zen perhaps (isnt that how LoTRO did it ?) ?
Don't give out a free character slot every time a silver gets to 40. Use the desire to try different options on FF characters to drive sales of retcons and character slots. Make character slots cheaper than retcons though so that someone interested in trying out a new FF concept is encouraged to roll another toon rather than retcon their 40.
I don't think silver gets the character slot when they hit 40 and from what I've been told converting a silver 40 to gold doesn't get you the slot either, you have to hit 40 while gold.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I said it at the time they went FTP, the ATs were a ridiculous idea and a complete waste of resources makign them.
They would have been much better off just keeping freeforms, and giving 1 chr slot free, and access to milenium city (with mission rebalancing so can start out there and get to 30, which you now can).
Then you charge for the other zones (everyone who stayed would end up buying them all) and for every extra character slot (most who stayed would buy at least a cple more).
That way people get to see the full character customisation options and think wow i like this...
New players trying the game would have better impressions, and all retained players would spend money, rather than a lot not spending anything, ever.
The huge development resources creating the AT system and all the ATs and the rebalancing (and alerts - but thats another topic) could have been spent making more actual content! They could easily have added more missions in existing zones, and with that development time probably another ap or 2 or mini zone at least.
IMO its too late to chage the games mechanics (yet again) using yet MORE of the pitiful dev resources that they NEED to use making more playable content.
On top of this people have paid real money for freeform slots now, this would be another mess like the jets with refunds etc needed.
I don't think silver gets the character slot when they hit 40 and from what I've been told converting a silver 40 to gold doesn't get you the slot either, you have to hit 40 while gold.
Exactly so. I was merely making the point that if Cryptic were to give out FF for free, as a means of sellign character slots, that it would be counterproductive to give out character slots for free as well.
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Or given the cost of FF to find another game.
Uhhhh no, it's not an argument for ATs to exist at all. It's an argument the thing they (potential subscribers) find most interesting that might draw them into the game is gated behind two payment options of which neither is appealing. That's an argument that doesn't directly relate to the existence or absence of ATs at all. It's completely about going F2P to attract more players while taking your most unique gameplay element and making it explicitly not F2P...a model I don't see any of the more successful F2P games using.
Either it's a very lucrative and player-attracting/retaining model that the other companies have no clue about so they don't use it, or it's a model that doesn't support player attraction/retention and doesn't generate the desired revenue which is why the other companies don't do it...
Or perhaps it's an incentive to play other F2P games where the primary game mechanics are F2P in nature with the cash-shop being truly supplementary in nature instead of being the door to the "real" game. In other words, in other F2P games the game is free, you can buy extra stuff. In this game the impression (rightly so or not) is that the F2P is a demo to the real game of "be the hero you want to be" that you have to pay for.
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Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
Conversly, does anyone know any people who didn't manage to get the slot, but continued playing? I actually know several people who didn't get any slots, and still don't have any, but continue to play.
Does anyone know any people who actually farmed out a ff slot completely with questionite? I only know one person who was trying to... they got to about 2000 before they gave up and just decided to buy another archetype.
Does anyone know someone who doesn't care about freeform characters? I know a couple people like this too. Some of them can be attributed to never having tried freeform, but some are gold players who prefer to play archetypes. I don't understand them personally.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Interesting. I always thought the F2P was the fact that all the content was free and not necessarily the classes.
Though honestly with how little there is of content updates in this game, that would probably drive others away from this game.
Regardless I don't agree with the OP. ATs don't need to go away, for the simple reason that some folks actually do play them.
If there had never been a COH there would never have been a CO. :cool:
Wouldn't surprise me if those folks in the last category who came from a game with pure classes and feel more comfortable with that. AKA don't want to go into the hassle of learning about how to build a proper FF character.
If there had never been a COH there would never have been a CO. :cool:
I actually subscribed for a three month period, so I automagically get freeform slots. Y'know what I do? I build AT's with them. The only thing I do differently is the stat boost picks. I always start out with "The Hero" package and then pick "Jack of all Trades" and move on to any other stat boost that has more than two stats in the package. THAT'S IT. Otherwise, I might as well be playing AT's.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
The latest big name to go Freemium, SWtOR, has provided the character story as its draw. This is arguably the best part of the game, which otherwise has nothing new or innovative about it. Their business model limits one's ability to actually enjoy the game play, however. For example: extra hot bars cost real money. Want to enjoy all 8 stories? Sub. You only get 2 characters slots and there is currently no option to buy character slots piecemeal. I could go on. However, my point is that free players in CO get a better deal than in some other games.
Ultimately the difference is in business model. CO is following an Asian model (go figure) with a minimalistic game for free, with gamble boxes. TOR's model seems designed on the idea of making the sub look more attractive by limiting access to many basic features and putting little Sub Now! icons on these things in game, so you don't forget it is there. CO basically gave up on making the sub attractive at FFA, the sole exception being pricing the FF slot at $50US.
Disclaimer: I'm not complaining about TOR's model, though I think their attempt to incentivize the sub is overdone. I am citing it for comparison purposes to make a statement about CO's.
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
Well said.
I think the best tactic would be to get people attached to the game's best feature sot hat they want to stay, to buy every costume set, to buy extra character slots, to buy travel powers, and so on.
Freeform should be (again in my opinion) free for silvers. Use that amazing element of this game, its best feature IMO, to grab people and get them invested int heir characters.
Don't give out a free character slot every time a silver gets to 40. Use the desire to try different options on FF characters to drive sales of retcons and character slots. Make character slots cheaper than retcons though so that someone interested in trying out a new FF concept is encouraged to roll another toon rather than retcon their 40.
Leverage the game's best feature to sell add-ons. It works in other games, it works in other industries.
For subscribers....increase the stipend and put some serious effort into increasing the appeal of the z-store. Or....eliminate subscriptions. Current subs keep everything they have on their account and can buy new releases they desire from the z-store going forward. LTS ? A lump sum of zen perhaps (isnt that how LoTRO did it ?) ?
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I don't think silver gets the character slot when they hit 40 and from what I've been told converting a silver 40 to gold doesn't get you the slot either, you have to hit 40 while gold.
They would have been much better off just keeping freeforms, and giving 1 chr slot free, and access to milenium city (with mission rebalancing so can start out there and get to 30, which you now can).
Then you charge for the other zones (everyone who stayed would end up buying them all) and for every extra character slot (most who stayed would buy at least a cple more).
That way people get to see the full character customisation options and think wow i like this...
New players trying the game would have better impressions, and all retained players would spend money, rather than a lot not spending anything, ever.
The huge development resources creating the AT system and all the ATs and the rebalancing (and alerts - but thats another topic) could have been spent making more actual content! They could easily have added more missions in existing zones, and with that development time probably another ap or 2 or mini zone at least.
IMO its too late to chage the games mechanics (yet again) using yet MORE of the pitiful dev resources that they NEED to use making more playable content.
On top of this people have paid real money for freeform slots now, this would be another mess like the jets with refunds etc needed.
Exactly so. I was merely making the point that if Cryptic were to give out FF for free, as a means of sellign character slots, that it would be counterproductive to give out character slots for free as well.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.