Cyrone's PFF Q/A Help Thread v2

cyrone

This is long overdue folks but I finally decided to get it off the Archive list and into something I can edit again.

If there's anyone with any questions about the power or if they have a build that they would like to have reviewed by me for tweaking then by all means use this thread to do so. It will help keep my inbox empty and help fellow players to get a better understanding, instead of just one at a time.

Superstats and PFF:

Shield Strength and Shield Regen are directly affected by whatever superstats you select. Shield regen scaling currently, to me, seems quite a bit off in terms of scaling with gear.

Active Defenses and PFF:

The only two AD's that I recommend for PFF are 1) Field Surge and 2) Masterful Dodge.

Field Surge is a no brainer for PFF and Masterful Dodge works well because Dodge is applied before PFF shields.

Shield layering and PFF:

Personal Force Field is under *everything*.

Order of damage mitigation stacking:

Dodge -> Absorb(Inuln/IDF) -> Field Surge -> Shields (Mindful/Protection) -> Resistances -> PFF -> HP

Compassion and PFF:

PFF receives a slight increase from Compassion. Each stack gives an increasing bonus.

This shield increase does *not* increase Shield Regen.

Dodge/Resist and PFF:

Dodge and Damage Resistance are both layered before PFF shield takes damage. Go nuts with the stacking.

Blocking and PFF:

Blocking reduces damage on shields and doubles your shield regeneration rate.

*NOTE*

Block advantages that offer more defense are very, very helpful in maintaining your shields.

*END NOTE*

Specializations and PFF:

Only Arbiter and Overseer have specs that can directly affect your PFF shield strength.

PFF receives a lower bonus than other shields.

VIPER and PFF:

VIPER Henchmen sometimes have attacks that can bypass shields.

VIPER Brickbusters' debuff causes all incoming attacks to have a higher shield bleed through, resulting in faster death of the player.

*Superstat Scaling*

Will update the scaling as soon as possible.

theravenforce

VIPER and PFF:

VIPER Henchmen sometimes have attacks that can bypass shields.

VIPER Brickbusters' debuff causes all incoming attacks to have a higher shield bleed through, resulting in faster death of the player.

I'd just like to emphasise, that blocking whilst doing this has a limited effect, you will still die just slower. VIPER Henchmen coupled with BrickBusters are the worst combination for a PFF user to encounter. Pulson Tech is what allows them to fully bypass shields, which means, you can die with 100% shields intact. I speak from personal experience T_T.

cyrone

theravenforce wrote: »

VIPER and PFF:

VIPER Henchmen sometimes have attacks that can bypass shields.

VIPER Brickbusters' debuff causes all incoming attacks to have a higher shield bleed through, resulting in faster death of the player.

I'd just like to emphasise, that blocking whilst doing this has a limited effect, you will still die just slower. VIPER Henchmen coupled with BrickBusters are the worst combination for a PFF user to encounter. Pulson Tech is what allows them to fully bypass shields, which means, you can die with 100% shields intact. I speak from personal experience T_T.

Oh I have experienced that many, many times. :cool:

jaazaniah1

So, I guess there's a reason for taking Protection Field with PFF after all? :biggrin:

Any chance you'd post your most recent build(s)?

I'm still struggling with how to make a decent character that uses both Force Cascade and PFF. I do pretty well with AoPM, FC and PF, but can't really seem to get the other option to work effectively.

lucyinspacewithdiamonds

lol

I saw an Invulnerable player with cascade... that was cool; my ninja used to use LR and cascade... I don't see why it can't be good for PFF

theravenforce

lucyinspacewithdiamonds wrote: »

lol

I saw an Invulnerable player with cascade... that was cool; my ninja used to use LR and cascade... I don't see why it can't be good for PFF

Because nothing can ever be good for PFF T_T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was on PTS today and tried out the IDF + PFF combination, works well against tiny damage, but against massive damage like Dragons Claw, it fails. One strike from it leveled my PFF from 7.9k - 700 shield hp, through block and dodge.... so yeaahhh...

I still maintain that shield regen strength and how regularly it procs need a kick up the bum, are PFF users expected to block all the time to get "decent" shield regen?

Even in PvE it sucks, I stupidly tried it in PvP and got eaten alive, so far I am very sad. T_T


When you think of all the ways around block, namely KB and CC, and interrupts (comming soon) which are prevalent. PFF still is the only passive which relies on a block to make it work remotely well...

lucyinspacewithdiamonds

LOL... that's what dodging is for. And like I said, IDF was never meant for big hits like Dragon's Claw, and in my opinion it shouldn't be.

I dueled Cyrone, and once again, it was humiliating, in a good way. ^_~ For a while without crippling challenge, and again with, granted I built for pve and that alt wasn't 100% optimized for duels. lol

My main combo failed even when he was standing still... Tried tiger bite over and over, even with crits he could just jump away... and then field surge comes back. I was speechless. lol There were some other tactics that could prove more useful but one could say that about fighting any passive.

All PFF needs is some improvements in several places then it should be much more formidable and accessible.

I forgot to say something about the accessibility of PFF, or right now, the lack thereof. lol

If these changes I have in mind are made, or other ones that give the same end result, I think PFF will be where Lightning Reflexes is now in terms of accessibility, not necessarily performance. It's been mentioned several times that "out of the box" these passives can be difficult to use, but according to an ancient Chinese proverb, "it requires a little something called learning," which is what I'm doing right now with PFF.

theravenforce

I have a feeling PFF isnt going to be looked at for a while after the recent "changes" (which are actually fixes to long standing bugs as far as I am concerned) to PFF + IDF layering hit LIVE. Once the opportunity arises for it to be looked at you can be as sure as hell I'll be there :biggrin:

For now, I think once changes come through I will be steering myself to get rank 7 mods on my most prized chars, namely my telepath and my force fielder, and just getting dodge gear to get the most out of PFF as I can really..following Cyrone's advice ofc

cyrone

I'll redo the regen scaling when the buff to PFF on the PTS hits Live.

theravenforce

My PFF shield regen per 3 sec at max shields (7,904) has been fixed from 517 per 3 sec to 775 per 3 sec, not as high as I'd hoped but, once I stick in my END, EGO and INT 7 mods I should be rocking mah PFF :cool:

lordhavelock

cyrone wrote: »

I'll redo the regen scaling when the buff to PFF on the PTS hits Live.

Cyrone, thanks (in advance) for keeping this info updated! Your efforts are appreciated.

Question... I remember reading somewhere, I think it was a PTS Release Notes, that IDF was now outside of, absorbing damage first, or otherwise protecting PFF instead of being (worthless) underneath it. Is this a Live feature or still just a PTS dream?

cyrone

lordhavelock wrote: »

Cyrone, thanks (in advance) for keeping this info updated! Your efforts are appreciated.

Question... I remember reading somewhere, I think it was a PTS Release Notes, that IDF was now outside of, absorbing damage first, or otherwise protecting PFF instead of being (worthless) underneath it. Is this a Live feature or still just a PTS dream?

It's still on PTS currently. I do believe that it will come out with Friday's update, though.

theravenforce

cyrone wrote: »

It's still on PTS currently. I do believe that it will come out with Friday's update, though.

ER MAH GERD.

If it does...well you know what I'd be like lol

tdits

Let me now if they fix Pulson weaponry. #FlippingVIPER

theravenforce

tdits wrote: »

Let me now if they fix Pulson weaponry. #FlippingVIPER

If they ever do, I swear...my force char will have so much VIPER blood on her hands she'll be swimming in it!!!:mad:


MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

cyrone

theravenforce wrote: »

If they ever do, I swear...my force char will have so much VIPER blood on her hands she'll be swimming in it!!!:mad:

I'll be tossing out font size 72 LOL's at them if the Pulson tech gets removed.

jaazaniah1

I've got a bunch of retcons saved up to rework my main Force hero. I'm trying to have someone who can get off a full strength Force Cascade and makes use of PFF as his passive, currently at lvl 21. My first questions are about what super stats to take. First thoughts are:
PSS End
SSS Int
SSS Pre

Gear for Rec and Ego plus some dodge+avoidance and cost discounts.

What are others trying at this point?

bluhman

cyrone wrote: »

Blocking and PFF:

Blocking reduces damage on shields and doubles your shield regeneration rate.

*NOTE*

Block advantages that offer more defense are very, very helpful in maintaining your shields.

Does this include Force Sheath on Force Shield?

cyrone

bluhman wrote: »

Does this include Force Sheath on Force Shield?

I would say yes. It offers some resistance and because of the shield bleed through causing your HP to take damage, you get the energy return benefit too.

lordhavelock

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but speaking of Force Shield's Sheath... Does improving the rank of the base Shield's block also improve the Sheath's residual resistance?

In other words, does a Rank 3 Force Shield Force Sheath give better protection than a Rank 1 Force Shield Force Sheath, or does the Rank only improve the resistance amount while actively blocking?

bluhman

cyrone wrote: »

I would say yes. It offers some resistance and because of the shield bleed through causing your HP to take damage, you get the energy return benefit too.

I was more wondering if the passive block caused your shields to regenerate faster. Would it perhaps be better than Energy Shield?

lucyinspacewithdiamonds

I would like it better if PFF had something to make it good without having to block all the time.

cyrone

bluhman wrote: »

I was more wondering if the passive block caused your shields to regenerate faster. Would it perhaps be better than Energy Shield?

No, the Force Sheath advantage doesn't cause the shields to regen faster. I use it primarily as a source of constant energy. Energy Shield would provide better resistance. Blocking with Energy Shield Rank 3 would probably net the best regeneration rate since it has much higher resistances on the block.

cyrone

lordhavelock wrote: »

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but speaking of Force Shield's Sheath... Does improving the rank of the base Shield's block also improve the Sheath's residual resistance?

In other words, does a Rank 3 Force Shield Force Sheath give better protection than a Rank 1 Force Shield Force Sheath, or does the Rank only improve the resistance amount while actively blocking?

I don't believe ranking up the actual block ability increases the resistance gained from Force Sheath.

mainscrizz

cyrone wrote: »

I don't believe ranking up the actual block ability increases the resistance gained from Force Sheath.

I'm not satisfied with PFF still.

I can still chew through PFF faster than LR or defiance.
I think the taking damage regen should be what it is while blocking and not taking damage, Or it should have some dodge/avoid built in (20%?)
That would give PFF a needed boost.

I'll probably try out PFF again today when I retcon my PvP char

theravenforce

lucyinspacewithdiamonds wrote: »

I would like it better if PFF had something to make it good without having to block all the time.

Yup, I have been trying to get damage absorb percentage added to shielding layer around 40% damage absorb perhaps scaling up to 50% as shields go down.

mainscrizz wrote: »

I'm not satisfied with PFF still.

I can still chew through PFF faster than LR or defiance.
I think the taking damage regen should be what it is while blocking and not taking damage, Or it should have some dodge/avoid built in (20%?)
That would give PFF a needed boost.

I'll probably try out PFF again today when I retcon my PvP char

To be perfectly honest, I agree, I think what PFF needs is a damage absorb mechanic, taking damage regen nerf to be scrapped and option to have a dome graphic which appears (can be switched off for ppl who dont want it) in combat:3

Whilst I am very grateful to the Dev Team for doing all they have done for PFF, it still needs more.

I think the regen rate should be doubled after Field Surge is used for a short duration like 2 mins or something, but this wouldnt stack.

Call it Force Infusion

hitmouse

So protection field is layered under PFF? My eyeballs clearly state that it is a big bubble surrounding my PFF... these eyeballs of mine, they really are a couple of jokers.

Seems like a PFF user should eschew defense in favor of dodge/avoidance. Protection field benefits from dodge/avoid too right? It really should if it is layered beneath PFF.

I'm working on my first freeform, and I want to use a force field of some kind (for theme and glowy-ness). I tried PFF first and wasn't too impressed (it seems to go down fast vs mid-lvl mobs). I ditched PFF for an offensive passive, and am now spamming protection field. The PF seems to work better for my toon than the PFF, despite the fact that the latter takes up your one and only passive slot. But, I don't know how to get the most out of either power, so any judgment on my part is premature.

On an off-topic note, I read somewhere that invulnerability's damage reduction is applied before damage is dealt to a bubble. Is this just the flat damage reduction? I would ask this question elsewhere... and I will, when this forum releases me from limbo and lets me post my own threads.

Does field surge scale off super stats? Or does it just not scale at all?

cyrone

hitmouse wrote: »

So protection field is layered under PFF? My eyeballs clearly state that it is a big bubble surrounding my PFF... these eyeballs of mine, they really are a couple of jokers.

Seems like a PFF user should eschew defense in favor of dodge/avoidance. Protection field benefits from dodge/avoid too right? It really should if it is layered beneath PFF.

I'm working on my first freeform, and I want to use a force field of some kind (for theme and glowy-ness). I tried PFF first and wasn't too impressed (it seems to go down fast vs mid-lvl mobs). I ditched PFF for an offensive passive, and am now spamming protection field. The PF seems to work better for my toon than the PFF, despite the fact that the latter takes up your one and only passive slot. But, I don't know how to get the most out of either power, so any judgment on my part is premature.

On an off-topic note, I read somewhere that invulnerability's damage reduction is applied before damage is dealt to a bubble. Is this just the flat damage reduction? I would ask this question elsewhere... and I will, when this forum releases me from limbo and lets me post my own threads.

Does field surge scale off super stats? Or does it just not scale at all?

Field Surge scales to level. As far as other shields with PFF, I haven't updated the main post of this thread yet but they do layer on top of PFF now.

Order of "operations" that was explained to me is now:

Dodge -> IDF -> Field Surge -> Protection Field / Mindful Reinforcement -> Resistances -> Personal Force Field -> HP

hitmouse

So, PFF benefits from resistances now?! Did I understand your post correctly?

theravenforce

hitmouse wrote: »

So, PFF benefits from resistances now?! Did I understand your post correctly?

It does, it always has I think, but with the current set up it seems more effective, but don't expect too much, it still plummets like hell, but functions a lot better.

Now only if we had a constant in and out of combat regen speed + damage absorb mechanic on PFF

rstzed

I retconed my force toon to PFF a couple days ago. I also have Protection Field and the Energy Refraction advantage. When either of those two are up I see no damage to PFF.

BTW, Dose anyone know of a way to make sure Protection Field dose not go to another PC?

chuckwolf

rstzed wrote: »

I retconed my force toon to PFF a couple days ago. I also have Protection Field and the Energy Refraction advantage. When either of those two are up I see no damage to PFF.

BTW, Dose anyone know of a way to make sure Protection Field dose not go to another PC?

Just don't be targeting anyone... if you don't have an active target it targets yourself

rstzed

Thanks, but I saw that the PC it lands on is the one the mob is targeting I guess it is not such a bad thing after all.

Do any of the heal powers work that way? Many of my toons have unused power slots, if I had a heal power that worked that way I could help out with out having to re-target. Sort of blast mob-heal tank-blast mob sort of thing. Useful in smash alerts when time is short.

theravenforce

rstzed wrote: »

Thanks, but I saw that the PC it lands on is the one the mob is targeting I guess it is not such a bad thing after all.

Do any of the heal powers work that way? Many of my toons have unused power slots, if I had a heal power that worked that way I could help out with out having to re-target. Sort of blast mob-heal tank-blast mob sort of thing. Useful in smash alerts when time is short.

Heal powers are about as random as Proc Field really, sometimes when you are dying they heal someone with 100% hp :P

It just takes a little more focus than DPS spamming, Empathic Healing, Bionic Shielding are examples of other player healing which tend to auto target other people.

It was quite a laugh when I used to play as Mind AT and I was teamed with another one in Aftershock and we were each about to die so we both started Empathic Healing but on each other xP

If your looking for power healing I would suggest Rebuke or the Celestial Powerset as that has some very powerful heals.

fr0gurt

rstzed wrote: »

Thanks, but I saw that the PC it lands on is the one the mob is targeting I guess it is not such a bad thing after all.

Do any of the heal powers work that way? Many of my toons have unused power slots, if I had a heal power that worked that way I could help out with out having to re-target. Sort of blast mob-heal tank-blast mob sort of thing. Useful in smash alerts when time is short.

This is a function of the "Assist target on attack" option in Controls options. If you attempt to attack a friend or heal an enemy with this option on, the attack/heal will go to the target of the target instead.

You can press F1 to target yourself for a self-heal. F2-F5 can target specific teammates, but these commands only work with pre-made teams, not open team-ups like the ones in alerts (a bug).

You can also create a custom keybind that targets yourself and heals with a single button press. See the FAQ for Bindings/Commands for details.

rstzed

Thanks all for the advice.

hitmouse

Cyrone, I posted a build for my PFF toon as "1st freeform champ" in builds and roles. I suspect the build needs more than a little work. But, even one or two nuggets of advice would be much appreciated.

BTW, I think I saw one of your toons (the one shown in your posts) dueling in ren-center. Far and away the most entertaining couple of duels I have had the pleasure of watching.

lucyinspacewithdiamonds

Personal Forcefield is enough bubbles for me. :P Force Bolts and Hardened Particle Matrix don't count. :P

I've decided not to use PFF now that nobody plays this game anymore except to do alerts over and over again.

theravenforce

Just a quick note! I'll be copying this thread and updating it whilst Cyrone is on a hiatus from CO.

As far as I have been told he only logs on sometimes (like when he told me to do this).

I'll copy this thread when and if there are any changes to PFF whilst he is away ^_^

cyrone

theravenforce wrote: »

Just a quick note! I'll be copying this thread and updating it whilst Cyrone is on a hiatus from CO.

As far as I have been told he only logs on sometimes (like when he told me to do this).

I'll copy this thread when and if there are any changes to PFF whilst he is away ^_^

It's true. I'll be in game from time to time, won't be doing much. I've lost interest due to a lack of things to do now. But! I will still be around in the forums (at least checking them).

xaade

I'm playing around with things, and IDF is definitely the toggle to use.

However, anything I can stack on PFF can be stacked on Invuln with greater effect.

I think dodge would be the best option.

I wonder if having 3 active defenses would help too?

cyrone

xaade wrote: »

I'm playing around with things, and IDF is definitely the toggle to use.

However, anything I can stack on PFF can be stacked on Invuln with greater effect.

I think dodge would be the best option.

I wonder if having 3 active defenses would help too?

Dodge is the way to go when mitigating damage to the PFF itself, as for having 3 active defenses - the only useful ones to PFF are Field Surge and Masterful Dodge.

theravenforce

Yay for rank 7 mods lol

I'm just going to put up my final stats on ForceGirl:

(I retconned out of END Int/Ego and went to INT End/Ego, works like a charm if you know what you are doing with CD's proccing MSA.)

INT: 345
EGO: 280
END: 177

Personal Force Field Strength: 8,136 (not sure if higher than Cyrone's but high enough for me atm ^_^)

Personal Force Field Recharge Rate: 782 per 3 sec out of combat.

cyrone

theravenforce wrote: »

Yay for rank 7 mods lol

I'm just going to put up my final stats on ForceGirl:

(I retconned out of END Int/Ego and went to INT End/Ego, works like a charm if you know what you are doing with CD's proccing MSA.)

INT: 345
EGO: 280
END: 177

Personal Force Field Strength: 8,136 (not sure if higher than Cyrone's but high enough for me atm ^_^)

Personal Force Field Recharge Rate: 782 per 3 sec out of combat.

Dex: 349
Int: 260
Ego: 239

PFF shield: 8,154
PFF rege: 792

Close! But not quite there yet.

mainscrizz

cyrone wrote: »

Dex: 349
Int: 260
Ego: 239

PFF shield: 8,154
PFF rege: 792

Close! But not quite there yet.

muaahahha xD

theravenforce

cyrone wrote: »

Dex: 349
Int: 260
Ego: 239

PFF shield: 8,154
PFF rege: 792

Close! But not quite there yet.

How did you manage to get both secondary SS above 200? I found that sacraficing END was a bit meh but doable... not seeing how you managed to do that...

Rank 8-9 mods?

cyrone

This is to show that PFF can most definitely handle a good hit.

Your Field Surge absorbs 3572 (241) damage.

Your Personal Force Field absorbs 4464 damage.

Gravitar deals 235 (74719) Crushing Damage to you with Force Detonation.

Dodge/Avoid is stacked on this character. PFF shield max is 7,824.

theravenforce

cyrone wrote: »

This is to show that PFF can most definitely handle a good hit.

Your Field Surge absorbs 3572 (241) damage.

Your Personal Force Field absorbs 4464 damage.

Gravitar deals 235 (74719) Crushing Damage to you with Force Detonation.

Dodge/Avoid is stacked on this character. PFF shield max is 7,824.

*Fangirl scream* Its so awesome!

A similar thing happened to me with ForceGirl, but I took 700 (65097) damage blew me away when I looked at combat log O_o

chuckwolf

I agree. Ever since they fixed layering between PFF PF IDF etc. survivability is much improved. I had an impulse just level 17 survive 2 attacks from Grond just by blocking and using protection field to boost the PFF and IDF. Before one attack from him would have destroyed a level 17 PFF user.

theravenforce

I know you'll probably beat this..but here is your challenege ...

*Points at the bold writing in her sig*

*giggles*

The exact strength is 8.692 ^_^:biggrin:

variatas

Does Field Surge scale with PRE or +healing%?