It just feels like these Becomes would only be used by someone that doesn't know how to make a costume or set up powers as freeform but that's just a novel idea I just came up with. :rolleyes:
Other than that they can be collected to make a shapeshifter but that's it.
To me, vehicles and becomes are a problem because they're going to be mandatory to take part in at least one future update. I also think developing them is a waste of resources that could be put to better use in this game but, wouldn't complain if they weren't required to take part in playing the game itself.
If only more people would have said the same before they released that crap. But at that time
i was fighting against windmills since most of the players here were so "excited" about the
new "content" and always told me that nearly ALL Heroes these days uses Vehicles, and of
course also actually fight with the Powers of the Vehicles instead of their own powers.
And don't forget : They are only Prototypes and get sooo much more exciting and awsome in the future. And they are NOT become devices because they are so greatly customizable :rolleyes:
Main problem for me is still : If i want to fight with Jets, i play a Jetfighter Simulation, and not
a Superhero Game. If i play a Superhero Game, i want to play my Hero, and don't want to fight
with a Jet.
No, I haven't seen what happens when a group of 40s decides to not use the jets against the ship in the Nighthawk alert. What about people that aren't 40, or do they not count? I have also not seen what will happen in the new carrier content either and probably won't considering there's been discussion of 'loaners' being issued to players that don't have their own vehicles to use in it which means that, yes, vehicles will most likely be mandatory and it sounds like they're severely overpowered compared to regular characters. This means that even if they're not mandatory, anyone not using one is heavily penalized when not using one. Again, this does affect my play experience on CO and I will speak about it.
I am not trying to ruin the play experience of others. I'm expressing my unhappiness about what looks like it will be a required part of future content and I don't want it to be a part of future content since it's not why I play and not what I pay for. Nobody dropped any cross. Care to explain why you felt the need to single out my intial post and accuse me of QQing simply for having a differing viewpoint than you about something that it appears will become a mandatory part of future content and why you feel like you have to attack people to get your point across?
When a group of 40s drops their become jets devices blah blah etc, the boss dies faster than if you would sit there and use the jets. Same thing applies to the power armor alert, and no, you don't have to be 40, and no, lower levels can enjoy just as much content as highers, does that mean take a lvl 6 into something that large? Probably not the best idea, but no one is stopping you from sidekicking. "Oh but...I don't have a flight power or a vehicle....
They're giving us temporary vehicles to do the alert with......
We can sit up and make assumptions about what could happen with becomes or vehicles etc, but when its completely contrary to whats already been done in the past, its a worse lie than a Westboro Baptist running around invoking a riot by saying the sky is falling. And then while everyone is busy breaking windows and looking up for comets, they get jumped from behind because the real issue got overlooked and nobody paid attention to the zombie apocalypse that could have been prevented.
Telling them to stop making content or badmouthing a piece of content that isn't even broken and has been here for years doesn't inspire them to make more better content, it inspires them to take it away or break it, or just leave it on the shelf like they did hideout extensions. And then threads like this come out and instead of thinking about what could be done to improve what we have it goes to "Oh they just should have never come out in the first place.." Wheres the posts about Mob AI being broken? Wheres the posts about increasing view distance and speed towards vehicles from mobs? Wheres the posts about auto attack range and hitboxes from the new jets needing to be balanced so that minions don't just stand there on the ground and die? Theres been only one suggestive post in this entire thread that even made halfway sense and it was about adding a 50 dollar option of build slots to freeforms to pretty much roll two character into one. And while it had nothing to do with vehicles or boxes, it was still better than "Aw its just broken..."
Your freedom, origionality etc, isn't getting taken away by having these vehicles and devices exist, your freedom and creativity are getting taken away by having content locked....inside a box....<----that didn't used to be in a box....that will also cost you your full monthly stipend to even roll something decent.
Yet....become devices are ruining the game :rolleyes:....srsly?
No one is forcing you to use something, you have the choice to use it or to not use it. That's your choice. If you choose to get worked up over other people having fun, and if you get high blood pressure over this, then you have a problem. For every one of a vocal minority complaining about this, you'll have 50-100 people in game just having fun with it.
It's fun. You use it, or you don't. It's like challenge. If you want challenge, you use white items. You don't have to use all purple items, you could use white items when you're running Serpent Lantern on Elite for your challenge. But you choose to pick white items, then you choose to get worked up about it.
I find people like that really silly.
If you choose to want to have a challenge, you can't and shouldn't force that choice on other people. To each their own. Just as you can choose to use whites and run Serpent Lantern on Elite to get a challenge, others can choose to run Serpent Lantern at a low level on Normal with those green/blue items they didn't grind for. Do you see?
Same with the devices. If you think that they don't provide a challenge for you, then you choose to not use them. It's your choice, but also understand at the same time that you're not the Controller from Marvel comics, you can't make your choice become that of other people. You can't force the way you want to play the game upon them.
That's the voice of reason, right there.
Furthermore, do note:
You cannot use vehicles indoors or in instances.
I just felt that needed to be stressed. The fact that you can only use them in open world maps proves that they're just for a bit of fun. So you have a guy helping you fight Grond in his flashy vehicle. So? And? Is that making you pop neck veins? Why? I just don't understand the need to be petty, to me, this sounds like the old World of ******** argument, which went something like this:
"I spent my time grinding for this item, this item gives me power. No other player should even think about being permitted with my level of power until they've spent the same ridiculous amount of time grinding that I have. I had to sacrifice my job and social life for this, man!!"
And that's not a valid argument, since games are evolving. If a game evolves and suddenly someone is outpacing you without grinding, then that's just the nature of the game. If you want to be petty, you just need to find better items or a better build. But I don't see the need to be petty, or to get worked up about it.
To me, this is just small-minded pettiness.
Just let other people have fun OP. And find your own ways to have fun, okay? Cryptic have shown that they clearly want these in the game, and going by the amount of people I've seen with vehicles (a lot!), you're clearly in the minority, here. People like this, they have fun with it. Should we listen to the guy who's being a grumpalumpagus, the guy who wants to steal everyone's fun? Or should we just continue having fun?
Sorry, but I'm just going to continue having fun.
Please, stop grouching. Find your fun, don't ruin that of others.
Lockboxes do NOT replace, nor supplant, any drop. They are an additional drop table added to everything in the game that drops them. These worst cost that affect people is they take up 1 inventory slot up to 99. And the tiny bit of time and effort it takes to discard the stack.
My latest drop rates say otherwise. Seeing a sea of lockbox exclamations only for them almost entirely consisting of lockboxes - (and this was not a rare occurrence). That, and the fact that they stack keep them from filling bags endlessly, giving a pretty solid view of what you actually pick up.
Also, there the fact of having to pick them up at all, as it can often become necessary in order to pick up something else in the general area (ie another drop). It's like picking up a taiha... all the time.
@ agentx5 Oh and really - get rid of that becomes line - becomes are crap, and believe me I've got 12 or so in storage simply for collection. They are largely broken with non-scaling passives that have never been fixed since alert changes hit. It's not the becomes you should be focusing on - its the "vehicles" - which plenty of folks would actually agree is a disturbing trend .
The Becomes aren't the problem. This is how I see it.
-I want the Legacy Gear. However, in the silliest move to date, these unlocks are available as a Grab bag through Drifter.
-There is nothing that earns me Drifter Salvage except these Takoboxes, which I have to pay for a key to open.
-In the Takoboxes, the 'best' I can hope for is one of these worthless Become devices or a 4-slot gear, and despite all of this I'm most likely going to get 2-3 Drifter Salvage and some Rank 3 Endurance mods with an EXP boost, that I also don't need.
-I have to repeat this process of digging through the litterbox for coins over and over again just to get something that, at one time, would have been purchasable at the AH. Yes, I had accessable content REMOVED and then sold to me as a gamble prize locked behind a gamble I want absolutely nothing to do with. THIS is the outright slap to my face. I don't want a become. I don't want 4-slot gear. I don't want gigantic stacks of mods. I want what we were told they'd be working back into the game. Instead, they've thrown candy in a pile of dung and told us to enjoy.
1. A bigger problem than this would be that the Smash Alerts are killing open world exploration and lairs by making it so that you can level up faster by chaining Smash Alert after Smash Alert. Additionally this has the side-effect of having lots of inexperienced level 40 players, as alerts are not designed to teach you combat nor get you to enjoy the lore & storytelling in the game (unlike Adventure Packs and Comic Series). The bosses are less impressive and are muted (they don't even talk, which for some bosses like Ripper is what made them so enjoyable).
2. You don't have an alternative choice to get them without gambling, so I can totally understand your frustration. Although I'll say myself, the Drifter store FINALLY has something I want to buy: Legacy Devices. I love that, it's 2 good devices in every pack. And what you have duplicates of you can sell on the AH for a lot of gold. So it's finally a Grab Bag that you can always win with.
+1 to Cryptic for creating the Legacy Devices and 40 Salvage is not too much to ask for IMHO. Many of those devices are incredibly valuable!
You can disagree with me and be pessimistic if you want, but I would like to take a moment to actually praise Cryptic for doing this.
3. My complaint with the Takofanes Caches is that they often drop R3 Mods as the reward. Now THAT is a slap to the face. Nobody want's those R3 Mods at level 40, R5's are really the minimum people strive for. And with Smash Alerts making it so ridiculously easy to level up... Well...
I think the drop rate is pretty much the same.
I did my hour long Questionite city sweep yesterday and came back
with the usual three or four full bags of stuff.
However, constantly pulling my attention to zero value 'rewards' is well,
unrewarding, and in just the few days since the lockboxes showed up I found
my self increasingly displeased with the game. Consciously I don't care about
lockboxes, but each moment of disappointment ads up.
We can sit up and make assumptions about what could happen with becomes or vehicles etc, but when its completely contrary to whats already been done in the past, its a worse lie than a Westboro Baptist running around invoking a riot by saying the sky is falling. And then while everyone is busy breaking windows and looking up for comets, they get jumped from behind because the real issue got overlooked and nobody paid attention to the zombie apocalypse that could have been prevented.
It's not really an assumption given that the new content is on the PTS for people to check out and unless they've rebalanced it, yes, the new vehicles do overpower regular builds by a lot which means you would pretty much have to use one to run the new content. This would mean that vehicles would be mandatory. I am against that. So, first I was QQing, then I was God, and now I'm a lying Baptist announcing the apocalypse? Just from how you've been responding to my posts in this thread, it's easy to see that you're very eager to throw out insults and gloss over or ignore anything that doesn't fit your view or is inconvenient in your arguements, aren't you? How do you know I'm not Baptist? What then?
Telling them to stop making content or badmouthing a piece of content that isn't even broken and has been here for years doesn't inspire them to make more better content, it inspires them to take it away or break it, or just leave it on the shelf like they did hideout extensions. And then threads like this come out and instead of thinking about what could be done to improve what we have it goes to "Oh they just should have never come out in the first place.." Wheres the posts about Mob AI being broken? Wheres the posts about increasing view distance and speed towards vehicles from mobs? Wheres the posts about auto attack range and hitboxes from the new jets needing to be balanced so that minions don't just stand there on the ground and die? Theres been only one suggestive post in this entire thread that even made halfway sense and it was about adding a 50 dollar option of build slots to freeforms to pretty much roll two character into one. And while it had nothing to do with vehicles or boxes, it was still better than "Aw its just broken..."
As it's been pointed out by others, becomes and vehicles are not content. I'm sorry you can't grasp that but, they're not. Nemesis Confrontation, Viper's Nest, Alerts, Burial Ground, the Tutorial. All these things are content. Becomes and vehicles are not. I am not asking them to stop making content. I'm asking them to start. I am, however, badmouthing vehicles. I will continue to do so because I consider them a waste of resources that could go to developing actual content, not what you mistakenly believe content to be. Other questions are all good ones though and it's obviously something you're concerned about which begs the question of why aren't you making threads to discuss those topics rather than coming here to insult someone for having a differing opinion than yours?
Your freedom, origionality etc, isn't getting taken away by having these vehicles and devices exist, your freedom and creativity are getting taken away by having content locked....inside a box....<----that didn't used to be in a box....that will also cost you your full monthly stipend to even roll something decent.
Yet....become devices are ruining the game :rolleyes:....srsly?
Again, vehicles and becomes are not content. There is nothing original about clicking a button on your screen and suddenly being exactly the same as everyone else. What about that do you consider original? There is no content locked inside a box. Those are the becomes that you want so very badly that you're willing to go into any thread you come across that's even remotely close to the topic and try to derail that thread into a discussion about how you can't get those becomes the way you want to and becomes are not content. They're trinkets. Vanity items. Nothing more and that's how they should stay.
Purely at you, would you knock it off with annoying red text already? Plzkthx. It's not easy on the eyes, I asked you before and others have asked you nicely to stop too.
Nothing about this is simple. It's a complex multi-faceted problem. Which is why I created a topic on it. It's significant and needs to be discussed.
I will respect your right to your opinion even if I disagree with it highly. (I always try to look for aspects of peoples opinions that I agree with too, so I'm not just being Mr. Negative)
If you don't like it, don't use it.
Terrible advice. This never works, has never worked, will never work. Why? It's human behavioral science 101!
People will, on average, always always drift towards exploring boundaries & limitations and striving for the best advantage possible. It's hardcoded into our brain as it makes us as a species more adapted to survive. Were you born from your parent's having sex? Then yes, you are the product of survival of the fittest adaptation.
There's nothing wrong with that, but it should be noted this is one of the few things you can rely on for a large population. Why do you think Mods are tiered so they are harder to rank up? Why do you think leveling at first takes very little XP and then later takes a lot? It's a design that works with human players for a reason.
More specifically I've seen this argument used to justify pay-to-win attitudes that have been the DEATH of many a MMO. Do I really need to cites example to get the point across? I mean hell, just do like 5 min or research and you'll see it for yourself...
No one is forcing you to use something, you have the choice to use it or to not use it. That's your choice. If you choose to get worked up over other people having fun, and if you get high blood pressure over this, then you have a problem. For every one of a vocal minority complaining about this, you'll have 50-100 people in game just having fun with it.
Not yet.
That's the direction this is heading though, it's an arms race where in the end you'll have to have the latest become device to play or have any reasonable shot at winning. You can say that's paranoia, but I've seen it before MANY times in different games!
Yes I'm afraid this game is going to become pay-to-win, and unlike Electronic Arts, we are not the big if we take a hit to our player base when they get frustrated.
Again, what I'm focusing on here are the become devices, which replace both your powers and appearance.
It's fun. You use it, or you don't.
Careful, fun is subjective. You may consider it fun, others don't.
It's like challenge. If you want challenge, you use white items. You don't have to use all purple items, you could use white items when you're running Serpent Lantern on Elite for your challenge. But you choose to pick white items, then you choose to get worked up about it.
I find people like that really silly.
People like that? *bites back on the temptation to flame the hell out of you for that slight*
The thing about challenge is if you have a harder challenge you deserve a better reward. That's basic gameplay design, the kind that's been around since the days of Arcades (which I barely remember as a kid). Increased payout for the risk, otherwise why bother doing things the hard way?
And yes you will get the few diehards who are bored and looking for a challenge, kind of like how I thought at first it would be a good idea to try to solo Qwyjibo at 6:30 this morning and instead almost got whooped (had to call in a friend to help me for the two of us to take the monsterous ape down). That was more of a "what the hell, why not?" kind of moment. In general, the majority of the playerbase will NOT doing increased risk for the same reward and waste their time.
Time is valuable. And if you need proof of what I'm saying, just look at PvP. There's no real reward for doing PvP queues anymore so guess what? Combine with the minimum numbers of players to make a queue launch, and you have PvP instances being pretty much dead the majority of the time.
Really, the observations are lined up against what you're saying and supporting what I'm saying. Would you please re-examine your point of view?
If you choose to want to have a challenge, you can't and shouldn't force that choice on other people. To each their own. Just as you can choose to use whites and run Serpent Lantern on Elite to get a challenge, others can choose to run Serpent Lantern at a low level on Normal with those green/blue items they didn't grind for. Do you see?
I see, and I can agree to some extent but you are leaving out something critical that I just said, and in short that is: "Epic Challenge, Epic Rewards!"
If you want to have a harder challenge that's fine, but where's the reward for it? Heck not all rewards are even in gold, some are like the bonus cutscene for Legendary at the end of the original Halo game or a special achievement/perk (which is what a good gameplay design company like Valve often does, gives you achievements to strive for and allows it to be publicly displayed on your profile's stats).
Aside: I'll not that Core Connect STILL hasn't been connected with Champions Online. So you can't really boast of your achievements.
Same with the devices. If you think that they don't provide a challenge for you, then you choose to not use them. It's your choice, but also understand at the same time that you're not the Controller from Marvel comics, you can't make your choice become that of other people. You can't force the way you want to play the game upon them.
That's the voice of reason, right there.
It's the voice of your opinion, I find much of your logic unreasonable as it's not based on the direct observations, past trends, and alternate points of view.
Furthermore, do note:
You cannot use vehicles indoors or in instances.
Noted and already known. But what's to say that doesn't change with the current direction of things. This is my concern, a legitimate concern that me just saying "I told you so" in 6 more months from now just won't cut it.
I just felt that needed to be stressed. The fact that you can only use them in open world maps proves that they're just for a bit of fun.
No. It proves Cryptic is listening to complaints & concerns voiced in the PTS. It's an easy fix to restrict their usage, doesn't require a detail and time-consuming re-balancing or re-assessment.
Plus let's be honest here, NOBODY wants a device they paid good money or lots of gold for to be suddenly nerfed. I don't like having my stuff I bought nerfed, and neither do any of you. You feel cheated, even if you know it was for the "greater good".
So you have a guy helping you fight Grond in his flashy vehicle. So? And? Is that making you pop neck veins? Why? I just don't understand the need to be petty, to me, this sounds like the old World of ******** argument, which went something like this:
"I spent my time grinding for this item, this item gives me power. No other player should even think about being permitted with my level of power until they've spent the same ridiculous amount of time grinding that I have. I had to sacrifice my job and social life for this, man!!"
Your bias is showing. Chill out please.
And that's not a valid argument, since games are evolving. If a game evolves and suddenly someone is outpacing you without grinding, then that's just the nature of the game. If you want to be petty, you just need to find better items or a better build. But I don't see the need to be petty, or to get worked up about it.
To me, this is just small-minded pettiness.
I could say the same to your comment which are specifically directed at me (isn't that called flaming btw?)
Just let other people have fun OP.
Wow. Just wow. Ad hominem attack. I'm not out to "ruin" anybody's fun. This isn't about you. This isn't about me. This about the game itself, for everyone to have a chance to enjoy. And for what it's worth I realize you won't be able to make everybody happy.
And find your own ways to have fun, okay?
I do and I shall. I will also voice my complaints if there's something that is of concern. The direction the game is heading is of significant concern.
I tried them on the PTS. I certainly have the money to get one on Live. I'm choosing not to support that financially. (in fact I spend a lot on Cosmic Keys recently)
Cryptic have shown that they clearly want these in the game, and going by the amount of people I've seen with vehicles (a lot!), you're clearly in the minority, here. People like this, they have fun with it.
Two words: human behavior
People are going with them because they have advantages over normal super-hero stuff you can get from the Powerhouse, not necessarily because they want them. (often times I'd say it's because of some of both)
Should we listen to the guy who's being a grumpalumpagus, the guy who wants to steal everyone's fun? Or should we just continue having fun?
Sorry, but I'm just going to continue having fun.
Please, stop grouching. Find your fun, don't ruin that of others.
More ad hominem attack direct at me. Lovely. -_-
Sounds like you took this topic way too personally. This is supposed to be a debate and you're targeting me specifically trying to make my look like the bad guy here. "To each their own" right?
No one is forcing you to use something, you have the choice to use it or to not use it. That's your choice. If you choose to get worked up over other people having fun, and if you get high blood pressure over this, then you have a problem. For every one of a vocal minority complaining about this, you'll have 50-100 people in game just having fun with it.
You cannot use vehicles indoors or in instances.
I just felt that needed to be stressed. The fact that you can only use them in open world maps proves that they're just for a bit of fun. So you have a guy helping you fight Grond in his flashy vehicle. So? And? Is that making you pop neck veins? Why? I just don't understand the need to be petty, to me, this sounds like the old World of ******** argument, which went something like this:
I have no arguement with anything else you've said which is why I left it out of this quote but, I wanted to point out that this is incorrect. The devs of CO are now developing content specifically for vehicles. This means that vehicles are not longer optional. If someone wants to take part in the game's content, vehicles may be mandatory and that I take issue with. If this happens, it no longer becomes an issue of "Don't like it, don't use it." to, "Don't like it, don't play.", which leaves me wondering why subscribe to a game that's focusing on content I have no interest in.
Let me again follow up to stress that I realize this topic is going to be rocky and tempers may flare. That's expected to some extent, and it will be a challenge for all of us to look at this objectively and not take it personally.
Some of this frustration just needs to be verbalized, because in the middle of all of it good ideas are being shared & discussed & debated. So for the forum moderators: hold on loosely, but don't let go. (just like in the song)
I'm NOT out to destroy anybody's fun in this game. I don't have an ulterior motive of spitefulness, the only motive I have is what I stated right off the start: I care about this game and I'm concern at the direction it's taking with these Become Devices starting to exceed the player's own powers (even if they're restricted to certain areas).
Also be advised, I don't care what forum it is, if you talk to me directly like that then I will respond directly at you, trying once to reason with you. This is a behavior you can expect from me. If you persist with personal attacks I'll simply ignore you, as you're wasting my time. Please avoid taking thing personally, and if you attack somebody personally it's polite to apologize (but only if it's sincere of course).
I have no arguement with anything else you've said which is why I left it out of this quote but, I wanted to point out that this is incorrect. The devs of CO are now developing content specifically for vehicles. This means that vehicles are not longer optional. If someone wants to take part in the game's content, vehicles may be mandatory and that I take issue with. If this happens, it no longer becomes an issue of "Don't like it, don't use it." to, "Don't like it, don't play.", which leaves me wondering why subscribe to a game that's focusing on content I have no interest in.
"Don't like it, don't play" is what is at the core of my concern when I'm saying things like "I care for the game". If I didn't care, do you think I really would have bothered making this topic or taking the time to write out the long replies I have?
The direction of the game is concerning to me, with regards to these Become Devices. (also with regards to the scale of the XP reward from Smash Alerts compared to other content in the game, but that's a whole other topic)
"Don't like it, don't play.", which leaves me wondering why subscribe to a game that's focusing on content I have no interest in.
Well quite frankly there is no reason to. That's why I don't subscribe to WoW. However if there are some missions put in that require a vehicle, and some people are excluded from it because they won't buy one. Frankly I don't see this as a problem.
It used to be that people were excluded from the AP's unless they bought them. In LotRO you're excluded from huge sections of content unless you buy it. So if there's a hand full of missions that require a vehicle and that locks some people out... That's just not that big of a deal. You still have access to 99% of the content, which is way more then most games give.
"Don't like it, don't play" is what is at the core of my concern when I'm saying things like "I care for the game".
Now on the other hand, this argument "Don't like it, don't play." is simply nonsense when it comes to terms of game balance. So in this case X5 is bringing up a very valid point.
If something is broken balance wise, it effects everyone. You don't really have the option of not playing it in that case. A OP power or device is a problem and needs to be fixed, period.
Anyone who wants CO to continue should be concerned about devices, or vehicles if they are OP because they will cause problems in the game. This has been an issue in every MMO out there. Every time you see a broken power/class/item it causes problems until it's fixed.
Those kinds of things are not something that can simply be avoided.
'Don't like it, don't play it' works for things like PvP, Raids, or other types content, but does not work for broken powers/items.
That said, I don't know how broken these Become Devices are, so I can't really comment on them. But clearly the new vehicles with their 250ft range are clearly broken and need to be fixed.
"Don't like it, don't play" is what is at the core of my concern when I'm saying things like "I care for the game". If I didn't care, do you think I really would have bothered making this topic or taking the time to write out the long replies I have?
The direction of the game is concerning to me, with regards to these Become Devices. (also with regards to the scale of the XP reward from Smash Alerts compared to other content in the game, but that's a whole other topic)
I'm fine with the become devices the way they are. Honestly, besides vehicles (which may need to be looked at) I don't find any of the other becomes all that impressive.
I'm also fine with the xp rewards from smash alerts.
Until the devs make actual zones and content again there's not other new content coming out. That last sentence is the bigger issue here.
If there had never been a COH there would never have been a CO. :cool:
I was thinking the other day that they would soon come out with [Become Superhero].
I've been saying they should do this ever since become devices became available. In this super hero game, you're rarely given anything classically heroic.
1) Become devices arent content - content is new missions/zones etc, become devices (any device infact as well as costumes/powers etc) are just more ways of doing the same content that they never add to.
I disagre to my mind if you like and enjoy them then there content. Some people like and enjoy them there for to those people there content.
2) These devices effect everyone
i) Overpowered ones ruin balance (looking mainly at new vehicles, but old vehicles with their 250 range are bad as well)
Agreed becomes should follow the same balancing equation as player powers (meaning all bar the vehicles probably need some adjustment upwards while the vehicles need some downwards)
ii) They make it a game of clones esp bad with vehicles as it becomes planes online instead of champions online! This game has great customisation but these devices hide that behind people all looking the same and using same powers
So far this is something I'm not seeing and if it dose become the case on the upside people will stop the QQing about all the grim darks.
iii) Work put into making these is work that isnt being done on new content which is desperately needed!
Given that most uses existing ingame assets its probably safe to assume that they dont impact the creation of new non become devices content all that heavily.
Also given that the last few at least have come along around the same time the power sets they use have received a review its probably a way of offsetting some of the cost of that review.
I disagre to my mind if you like and enjoy them then there content. Some people like and enjoy them there for to those people there content.
In terms of MMO content is a word that has a meaning, it's not something you can change the meaning of just because you want to.
Content in MMO terms, is something you do, not what you do it with. Alerts are content even if people don't enjoy them. A new powerset however is not content, because that's not something you do, it's what you do content with.
what bother me the most about them is that they're becoming the ONLY "content" we're getting. They should be spending time and resources on new power sets, new story missions, finally making black and white powers a reality. The occasional become deviceis fine, but when they begin building content around things as a commercial for the c-store then you know something is wrong. when the only part of the game that's expanding or changing is the C-store then something is wrong. Yes cryptic has the right to make money, but they should be adding more than just shop items to the game.
That said, I don't know how broken these Become Devices are, so I can't really comment on them. But clearly the new vehicles with their 250ft range are clearly broken and need to be fixed.
There's players in our community right now, this very second, in the middle of Ren Center....right now....That not only out dps these devices but out tank and out heal them...simultaneously. There are players in this game, that if there was a...become Tempest or Xeno or Filip the Hero device (just for the sake of reference dont get mad temp) it would be by far the most op device in existance. If they made a become Rain Strife device that turned players into me or any other ridiculously known crazy strong hero out there, then sure, maybe we can talk about breaking the game then. But until I see a device that can match or exceed my 10k normal crits and 2k base hits on 1 character dlvled to 30, they aren't coming close to op yet. Yeah sure a lil 20k charge beam seemed stronk at first, until you realize....pff I coulda did that in 2 hits lol while the jet has to wait almost another minute and be fully charged with energy to even take another go at it.
One thing I do think they need to bring in line though is the auto attack gun range on them. Sure its only viable to abuse it against targets like Mega D, and sure it takes you forever and a day to do it, but, if they're going to give the vehicles 250 range, they need to give the AI and mobs 250 range to hit back, longer aggro range toward vehicles, and a better window of return for when a minion is pulled too far away from its start position. And then after that maybe revisiting if the minion should recover to full or not. Thats the only broken thing I've seen on the vehicles so far.
Other than that, if we wanna talk damage etc I've seen things from our own community that would make the Backup Devices from last month look like a 3 use Harmon labs rocket.
One thing I do think they need to bring in line though is the auto attack gun range on them. Sure its only viable to abuse it against targets like Mega D, and sure it takes you forever and a day to do it, but, if they're going to give the vehicles 250 range, they need to give the AI and mobs 250 range to hit back, longer aggro range toward vehicles, and a better window of return for when a minion is pulled too far away from its start position.
Hence the "arms race" factor I was talking about. The next thing that happens is that the noobish players will whine that it the game is "too hard" and thus they will buff the players again. Buff, buff, buff until eventually like in one Star Wars MMO you had monk-like melee characters literally PUNCHING freaking AT-AT walkers to death. This kind of thing breaks games, and I hate to say it's slippery slope like that because I want to believe this game won't go that way, but I mean... like how many times you have get slapped upside the head by game developers doing the same bad choices before you're like me going AAAAAARGGH STAHP!
wraithshadow13 is correct, what is needed is more content that you can go running around exploring. Places to go with things to do there, and reason to go there. I mean look at Canada or the Desert or Monster Island lately? Barely populated, because everybody is power-leveling with Smash Alerts. When you used to have CTP materials on Monster Island you could always expect to see a few people out farming in the remote corners of the island. Now? Not so much...
Again, this is what I mean when I say the "bell curve" or the "average" mass of the player population with regards to human behaviors. There's more goodies over there, people go there. It's human nature to strive to be the best. It really leaves me wondering...
What I liked about vehicles when they were first mentioned was that they would have some awesome travel capability. Instead it's starting to look like the sarcastic PyroGX topic I made a couple months ago: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=161061
Can I say "I told ya so" yet? (jk, but in all seriousness this is what I DON'T want)
The only become device I ever wanted was the Artic Wolf one and I bought it off someone in game to get it. My original thought was it would be like my magic-based character "shapeshifts" into a wolf. However the temporary holidays becomes left a terrible taste in my mouth, same with the Jet I have so the Arctic Wolf become just sits in my hideout bank. I just wish becomes didn't become the one idea to latch onto out of all the ideas they have come up with.
Cryptic lost me when they decided that the Batplane was faster than the Flash. I have no interest in become devices of any kind and would prefer they be working on something else. I have no issue with others liking them, since that seems to be the direction the horse is going -- I'm just not going to be riding it.
I've been saying they should do this ever since become devices became available. In this super hero game, you're rarely given anything classically heroic.
But .. but .. isn't nothing more Superheroic than beeing a Jet ? Everyone here told me that
every Superhero these days uses a Jet and fires weapons from it all days instead of using
something like .. *gasp* .. Superhero-Powers :eek:
I've been saying they should do this ever since become devices became available. In this super hero game, you're rarely given anything classically heroic.
I thought the AT's were "classically heroic". I mean, they certainly cover a pretty solid gamut of the stock powers.
Hence the "arms race" factor I was talking about. The next thing that happens is that the noobish players will whine that it the game is "too hard" and thus they will buff the players again. Buff, buff, buff until eventually like in one Star Wars MMO you had monk-like melee characters literally PUNCHING freaking AT-AT walkers to death. This kind of thing breaks games, and I hate to say it's slippery slope like that because I want to believe this game won't go that way, but I mean... like how many times you have get slapped upside the head by game developers doing the same bad choices before you're like me going AAAAAARGGH STAHP!
wraithshadow13 is correct, what is needed is more content that you can go running around exploring. Places to go with things to do there, and reason to go there. I mean look at Canada or the Desert or Monster Island lately? Barely populated, because everybody is power-leveling with Smash Alerts. When you used to have CTP materials on Monster Island you could always expect to see a few people out farming in the remote corners of the island. Now? Not so much...
Again, this is what I mean when I say the "bell curve" or the "average" mass of the player population with regards to human behaviors. There's more goodies over there, people go there. It's human nature to strive to be the best. It really leaves me wondering...
What I liked about vehicles when they were first mentioned was that they would have some awesome travel capability. Instead it's starting to look like the sarcastic PyroGX topic I made a couple months ago: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=161061
Can I say "I told ya so" yet? (jk, but in all seriousness this is what I DON'T want)
I strongly agree. That and it would be swell to finish the power set reviews.
Arms race, and power creep, go hand in hand with ease of game access, ala easier leveling, less korean grind <
of which everything above is good if your goal is to eliminate that sense of, omg I'm not having fun with this game, all I do is gather mobs together and kill them for weeks at a time in order to earn 10% of a level. Cryptic has done a great job with that so far in this game. And honestly I wouldn't be playing this game if they weren't doing a great job with that.
Maybe this would make it easier to understand, but my background with mmos spanned a harsh section of "Grind based" anti fun gameplay that has taken 3-4 years for the industry to get rid of. Everything from Fiesta to 2 moons to the ultimate Korean suicide fest Cabal, and tons more with the same theme and self mutilation attempt.
Power creep is going to be inevitable, but since this isn't a strategy game or moba, power creep can actually be good especially in development of new areas and level cap advances etc. With the power creep thats already here, (and don't get me wrong, I was against cap raises in this game etc for a long while) but with whats already here, I honestly think if they did it right, and stopped us off at 60 for good, or, if they wanted they could pull a blizzard move and just leave cap static, while giving us raids and new gear comparable to what we'd have on if the cap was raised, there'd be an easier resolve to give us
1. A new main town.
2. A new ad campaign to attract more players.
3. A stronger better AT system.
4. New world maps that don't feel the same as the one you just played and give you a reason to go there. (aka The desert vs canada, those two areas bump heads in current progression leaving one area undone for most of your character until you come back to those areas at 25-30+) Which is fine in adding onto the free roaming elements of the game, but the delivery could be better if the player was prodded to explore both areas and not just go to the most convenient one. Aka Lemuria vs Monster Island, ex. Not only do I hate what lemuria does to my eyes, I have no reason to go there, maybe if I had a reason to ignore how ugly and clumpy my character moves through it, and go there, I might like it better.
5. More open missions and a reason to give people rewards like legacy devices and drifter salvage etc for completing.
6. More powers to use in our power sets, (Looking directly at the heavy weapons tree, cmon we gotta have something more flashy to do with our giant weapons than a thunderbolt and a fire patch...)
7. More optional powers for AT's
8. More flexibility with freeforms, guy mentioned earlier build slots that were different from our current ones that not only loaded you out with a different role but entirely new skills and super stats. I'd buy that, not gonna lie.
But the arms race has already been decided, and we got power creeped already when they changed the way our super stats worked and gave us talent trees. The vehicles and recent thing with the Backup Devices didn't do anything but show us what the majority of min maxers have already been doing, but the min maxers have been doing it 100 times better. They just don't tell the world about it and leave you to guess wtf just happend when the grab alerts boss hp melted in a few seconds and nobody used a jet or a Backup.<
this happend to me in a grab last night, and I still have no idea who in my group was melting, but it was easily the highest dps I've seen ever aside from a Qphthongthoht, whatever his name is group a few weeks ago.(Still crossing my fingers for an actual side kick system where I can design the Robin to my Batman.)
Well quite frankly there is no reason to. That's why I don't subscribe to WoW. However if there are some missions put in that require a vehicle, and some people are excluded from it because they won't buy one. Frankly I don't see this as a problem.
It used to be that people were excluded from the AP's unless they bought them. In LotRO you're excluded from huge sections of content unless you buy it. So if there's a hand full of missions that require a vehicle and that locks some people out... That's just not that big of a deal. You still have access to 99% of the content, which is way more then most games give..
Most games, that Ive seen, give access to 100% of the game if you pay for it. I think your analogy struggles in the face of the fact that even subscribers (monthly or LTS) are excluded from vehicle only content if they do not wish to use a become device.
even subscribers (monthly or LTS) are excluded from vehicle only content if they do not wish to use a become device.
That's true, but I had thought they were going to allow you to still be involved even if you didn't have a vehicle, like if you have a flight power or something.
That's true, but I had thought they were going to allow you to still be involved even if you didn't have a vehicle, like if you have a flight power or something.
Who knows how this will develop. I am not sure that telling someone that they cannot play the new content, in a game that is (IMO) content starved, because they cannot afford to retcon their TP is a good idea.
Unless we are going down the trail of:
You cannot access this new AP/CS/whatever because you dont have power/tp, "x."
That's true, but I had thought they were going to allow you to still be involved even if you didn't have a vehicle, like if you have a flight power or something.
They already said it multiple times that if you didn't have a vehicle that temporary ones similar to the jet buffs will be available.
But .. but .. isn't nothing more Superheroic than beeing a Jet ? Everyone here told me that
every Superhero these days uses a Jet and fires weapons from it all days instead of using
something like .. *gasp* .. Superhero-Powers :eek:
I thought the AT's were "classically heroic". I mean, they certainly cover a pretty solid gamut of the stock powers.
Those are nothing I didn't have before Free for All. I'm talking about missions and villains that feel like they'd be in a comic book from back in the day. I'm not a fan of today's comic books. Too much "gritty" stuff and anti-heroes. I'm not gonna get into it, but my favorite comics were like, the original Spider-Man and Iron Man books.
Anyways, I think this whole argument about everyone becoming the same thing and throwing customization out the window is pretty bogus.
You could argue that vehicles allow you to customize your character even further with new gadgets. And they'll be even cooler if they figure out how to get your character to show on the vehicles.
Mind, I have very, very little interest in vehicles, and I wouldn't care if they were removed from the entire game, but they are just another way to customize a character.
Those are nothing I didn't have before Free for All. I'm talking about missions and villains that feel like they'd be in a comic book from back in the day. I'm not a fan of today's comic books. Too much "gritty" stuff and anti-heroes. I'm not gonna get into it, but my favorite comics were like, the original Spider-Man and Iron Man books.
Anyways, I think this whole argument about everyone becoming the same thing and throwing customization out the window is pretty bogus.
You could argue that vehicles allow you to customize your character even further with new gadgets. And they'll be even cooler if they figure out how to get your character to show on the vehicles.
Mind, I have very, very little interest in vehicles, and I wouldn't care if they were removed from the entire game, but they are just another way to customize a character.
I have no issue against them, but wish the time spent on them had been spent in other ways.
If there had never been a COH there would never have been a CO. :cool:
I have no issue against them, but wish the time spent on them had been spent in other ways.
Myself I would of been happy if they were effectively nothing more then just a travel power. Would of taken a lot less time and resources to pull that off.
I have no issue against them, but wish the time spent on them had been spent in other ways.
Exactly that is THE issue against them for me. Heck if we had masses of devs and some of them
would create them, i would also have no problem with them. But we only have 2-3 devs or whaetever
is left, and nobody is working on real content, all we get is this gimmick stuff.
The vehicle becomes I have no problem with. Wonder Woman has a jet. The Thundercats have a tank. Catwoman has a bike (she had a bike BEFORE that silly film).
Super Vehicles are a mainstay of the Comic Hero mythos.
What I want is a van like the Ninja Turtles that me and my SG lieutenants could sit in on our way to a lair...ok the lair bit is a lie we would drive about shouting NO YEW!!!! at randoms.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Myself I would of been happy if they were effectively nothing more then just a travel power. Would of taken a lot less time and resources to pull that off.
I strongly agree.
Just to see what I could do with the 300 ft travel power I hunted down and killed both Grond and Qwyjibo alone. Never took even a point of damage and obliterated both within a matter of minutes. Alternate fully charged shots and the reload, rinse & repeat. No superpowers at all, just one button on a become device while out of range. It's not the damage, it's that the AI in this game isn't coded to handle this at all. A simple change that can be done early on is to just
It becomes really quite boring to just sit there completely stationary with a jet and unload shot after shot at an enemy that can't possibly threaten you back. I thought games were supposed to be about having fun?
*sigh*
And again, what I have to admit is fun about them is being able to fly really fast. I do love how they are for speed, makes total sense for a jet to be that fast, and is fun to fly. I'd rather the weapons be replaced with powers that make you do maneuvers honestly. i.e.: "DO A BARREL ROLL!" :cool:
So yeah in short, I would also have been plenty happy with them as ultra-fast travel power devices. I'd be even happier with a new zone on the level of detail of our existing Zones.
PS: The become devices are bad for PvP, just in case you were wondering. I've done a few duels with the new ones (vehicles, Doomlord, Celestial, etc. and you'll get your **** handed to you by most PvP players with their better builds). So for once this isn't something that you have to worry about for PvP.
Alright,the vehicles are about the only becomes I have problems with,normal becomes don't surpass a certain "Limit" on DPS, those jets however, are pretty much OP to the rest of the becomes,I think thats why a lot of people don't like them,as for regular becomes and becomes in general,they should never exceed some players(I know a good number of players that do a lot better than those jets,but think in terms of ATs,one person sees a way to get better stuff to make him/her have better powers than the rest, they start doing it and before you know it, droid AATs and speeder bikes everywhere,but no superheroes in sight)
I just dont see the market of people who are chomping at the bit to use a become device.. or ANY device.
We build characters using stats, costume, biography, FX coloring.. and a plethora of other things..
Only to have all that work rendered pointless to play as "something else"..
I have hover disc as a travel power.. its the best vehicle the game has made.
- -
I would have been VERY happy to be able to see a model of my character using "sitheroic" inside a faux cockpit of a vehicle and still have ALL the same stats and powers that I spent so much time building MAYBE something additional (though weaker imho).
But to make a super OP device to erase and replace (not compliment) what I spent 3 years perfecting? No thank you. From the feedback I hear from people they wanted the "keep my powers" model too.
We all know this makes animations hard.. but as I said.. I'd simply keep the model completely still and use ONE emanation point (if you notice the FX come out of the same geo location no matter what emanation point you choose).
Would it be ugly? Yes. But I think it's alot better than "Become Vehicle" Just my opinion
- -
IF .. IFFFFFFF These devices become a MASSIVE financial success then I'll tuck tail and shut up. Otherwise.. that's ALOT of programming for something we didn't want.
- -
My final gripe about all these: I'm waiting for Splosions to give me some amazing telepathy FX for the new powers and he's likely been busy on shadow wings, vehicle powers, vehicle skins, and the new Become Devices.. ugh
Myself I would of been happy if they were effectively nothing more then just a travel power. Would of taken a lot less time and resources to pull that off.
There's the problem of jets not being able to be used in indoor instances. If they were to stick with that restriction and make jets actual TP's, there's the problem of disparity since all other TP's available now can be used both outdoors and indoors. That's my take on a possible reason why they didn't make it an actual TP.
There's the problem of jets not being able to be used in indoor instances. If they were to stick with that restriction and make jets actual TP's, there's the problem of disparity since all other TP's available now can be used both outdoors and indoors. That's my take on a possible reason why they didn't make it an actual TP.
not really as they are far faster than any other travel power - the restricted use is the trade off and perfectly fair.
Lets face it, where do you want a fast travel power? inside an instance or in the open world?
Myself I would of been happy if they were effectively nothing more then just a travel power. Would of taken a lot less time and resources to pull that off.
This is one of the things I said in my very first post in this thread.
Why is the mantra of 'if you don't like it, don't use it' so hard? No one's forcing you to use a jet.
Geez. If Cryptic listened to all the vehicle naysayers and the 'make it moar leet' types, they'd be bankrupt within the week.
No they wouldn't. I believe you've recently said in a different thread that you're fairly new to this game. What you may not realize is that people that get a monthly or lifetime subscription get a monthly stipend of 500 zen a month. Zen is what will be used to purchase the new vehicles.
Some of the people playing this game have been getting a stipend since the first month. They pretty much already have everything they want that's available for purchase on the market which means their zen just keeps piling up. That is why you will see characters mentioning that they have over 300 costumes on that character in their background info.
These will most likely be the first players to get vehicles since they already have everything else so they may as well grab this too. This means Cryptic doesn't make any money off these players aside from what they were already getting.
A lot of those players also sell their zen on the exchange so they don't have to farm questionite for things like purple secondary gear. The people exchanging their questionite for zen won't have to use any of their own real money to buy vehicles since they can earn the zen for it by farming questionite. That means Cryptic will be making less money off these players as well.
Then there are players that use their stipends to buy items like becomes and vehicles off the Z Store and then sell those to players in game for resources. This cuts Cryptic out of the process almost entirely which means that they will make no money off these players.
If you were to read many of the comments in this thread again, you would see that the number one thing people that are against vehicles are asking for is more content. The more there is to do in this game, the more likely players are going to stick around, possibly subscribe or spend some cash on the Z store to buy something fir their character or get another character slot, and even encourage their friends to play as well.
In short: Proliferation of vehicles and becomes does not mean that it is huge profit for Cryptic.
What you may not realize is that people that get a monthly or lifetime subscription get a monthly stipend of 500 zen a month. Zen is what will be used to purchase the new vehicles.
I got my LTS when the game was in beta. So i've been getting the stipend since it went into effect. I've bought some hideouts, costume sets, ect... I even got a jet, and I currently have 3,500zen in my account. Zen I've not spent a extra dime to get.
So for me to buy a vehicle, is simply a question of if I want it or not. Even at 1500 zen I can still get one and not even think twice about it.
Then again what the person you were posting also doesn't realize is that this idea of "If you don't like it, don't use it" does not, will not, and never has worked in a MMO.
If something is broken people will abuse it, and that breaks the game as a whole.
I got my LTS when the game was in beta. So i've been getting the stipend since it went into effect. I've bought some hideouts, costume sets, ect... I even got a jet, and I currently have 3,500zen in my account. Zen I've not spent a extra dime to get.
So for me to buy a vehicle, is simply a question of if I want it or not. Even at 1500 zen I can still get one and not even think twice about it.
Then again what the person you were posting also doesn't realize is that this idea of "If you don't like it, don't use it" does not, will not, and never has worked in a MMO.
If something is broken people will abuse it, and that breaks the game as a whole.
My comment was more directed to his statement that the game would be broke in a week if the devs were to listen to the players saying to work on things other than becomes/vehicles but, you make my case perfectly in what I'd been saying. Depending on the prices of the vehicles when they come out, you could grab two or three if you wanted, keep one for yourself and sell the other two to other players for resources. Since you've been a LTS for that long it means that Cryptic would literally make no money at all off any of those purchases. You could also sell some of your zen on the exchange which means decreased profits for Cryptic if players buy your zen with their questionite.
Despite the claims of some people that vehicles and becomes can be used as an aid for new players that are using ATs, I think it can also be a strong turn off for those same people as well. If I'm new to a game where it seems that the focus of that game is customization and being able to build my character any way I want, I'm not going to be as excited about that game if I'm struggling in part of it, try to get help, and find out the simple answer is to use something that makes my actual character irrelevant by turning it into something else. If I'm also told that I have to pay additional money to get that option on top of what I'm already paying? Chances are I'm going to find a different game to spend my money on.
Comments
:eek: STOP READING MY MIND.
Other than that they can be collected to make a shapeshifter but that's it.
Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
If only more people would have said the same before they released that crap. But at that time
i was fighting against windmills since most of the players here were so "excited" about the
new "content" and always told me that nearly ALL Heroes these days uses Vehicles, and of
course also actually fight with the Powers of the Vehicles instead of their own powers.
And don't forget : They are only Prototypes and get sooo much more exciting and awsome in the future. And they are NOT become devices because they are so greatly customizable :rolleyes:
Main problem for me is still : If i want to fight with Jets, i play a Jetfighter Simulation, and not
a Superhero Game. If i play a Superhero Game, i want to play my Hero, and don't want to fight
with a Jet.
When a group of 40s drops their become jets devices blah blah etc, the boss dies faster than if you would sit there and use the jets. Same thing applies to the power armor alert, and no, you don't have to be 40, and no, lower levels can enjoy just as much content as highers, does that mean take a lvl 6 into something that large? Probably not the best idea, but no one is stopping you from sidekicking. "Oh but...I don't have a flight power or a vehicle....
They're giving us temporary vehicles to do the alert with......
We can sit up and make assumptions about what could happen with becomes or vehicles etc, but when its completely contrary to whats already been done in the past, its a worse lie than a Westboro Baptist running around invoking a riot by saying the sky is falling. And then while everyone is busy breaking windows and looking up for comets, they get jumped from behind because the real issue got overlooked and nobody paid attention to the zombie apocalypse that could have been prevented.
Telling them to stop making content or badmouthing a piece of content that isn't even broken and has been here for years doesn't inspire them to make more better content, it inspires them to take it away or break it, or just leave it on the shelf like they did hideout extensions. And then threads like this come out and instead of thinking about what could be done to improve what we have it goes to "Oh they just should have never come out in the first place.." Wheres the posts about Mob AI being broken? Wheres the posts about increasing view distance and speed towards vehicles from mobs? Wheres the posts about auto attack range and hitboxes from the new jets needing to be balanced so that minions don't just stand there on the ground and die? Theres been only one suggestive post in this entire thread that even made halfway sense and it was about adding a 50 dollar option of build slots to freeforms to pretty much roll two character into one. And while it had nothing to do with vehicles or boxes, it was still better than "Aw its just broken..."
Your freedom, origionality etc, isn't getting taken away by having these vehicles and devices exist, your freedom and creativity are getting taken away by having content locked....inside a box....<----that didn't used to be in a box....that will also cost you your full monthly stipend to even roll something decent.
Yet....become devices are ruining the game :rolleyes:....srsly?
How about they actually START making content?
Content is things to do (i.e new missions/zones)
All they keep adding is ATs, devices, costumes etc... All of that is just different looks/ways to do the SAME content that they never add to!
The only new area we have we got just after release almost 3 years ago
Comic series and adventure packs are good new content, but very little to show for 3 years!
Here's the simple solution...
If you don't like it, don't use it.
No one is forcing you to use something, you have the choice to use it or to not use it. That's your choice. If you choose to get worked up over other people having fun, and if you get high blood pressure over this, then you have a problem. For every one of a vocal minority complaining about this, you'll have 50-100 people in game just having fun with it.
It's fun. You use it, or you don't. It's like challenge. If you want challenge, you use white items. You don't have to use all purple items, you could use white items when you're running Serpent Lantern on Elite for your challenge. But you choose to pick white items, then you choose to get worked up about it.
I find people like that really silly.
If you choose to want to have a challenge, you can't and shouldn't force that choice on other people. To each their own. Just as you can choose to use whites and run Serpent Lantern on Elite to get a challenge, others can choose to run Serpent Lantern at a low level on Normal with those green/blue items they didn't grind for. Do you see?
Same with the devices. If you think that they don't provide a challenge for you, then you choose to not use them. It's your choice, but also understand at the same time that you're not the Controller from Marvel comics, you can't make your choice become that of other people. You can't force the way you want to play the game upon them.
That's the voice of reason, right there.
Furthermore, do note:
You cannot use vehicles indoors or in instances.
I just felt that needed to be stressed. The fact that you can only use them in open world maps proves that they're just for a bit of fun. So you have a guy helping you fight Grond in his flashy vehicle. So? And? Is that making you pop neck veins? Why? I just don't understand the need to be petty, to me, this sounds like the old World of ******** argument, which went something like this:
"I spent my time grinding for this item, this item gives me power. No other player should even think about being permitted with my level of power until they've spent the same ridiculous amount of time grinding that I have. I had to sacrifice my job and social life for this, man!!"
And that's not a valid argument, since games are evolving. If a game evolves and suddenly someone is outpacing you without grinding, then that's just the nature of the game. If you want to be petty, you just need to find better items or a better build. But I don't see the need to be petty, or to get worked up about it.
To me, this is just small-minded pettiness.
Just let other people have fun OP. And find your own ways to have fun, okay? Cryptic have shown that they clearly want these in the game, and going by the amount of people I've seen with vehicles (a lot!), you're clearly in the minority, here. People like this, they have fun with it. Should we listen to the guy who's being a grumpalumpagus, the guy who wants to steal everyone's fun? Or should we just continue having fun?
Sorry, but I'm just going to continue having fun.
Please, stop grouching. Find your fun, don't ruin that of others.
My latest drop rates say otherwise. Seeing a sea of lockbox exclamations only for them almost entirely consisting of lockboxes - (and this was not a rare occurrence). That, and the fact that they stack keep them from filling bags endlessly, giving a pretty solid view of what you actually pick up.
Also, there the fact of having to pick them up at all, as it can often become necessary in order to pick up something else in the general area (ie another drop). It's like picking up a taiha... all the time.
@ agentx5 Oh and really - get rid of that becomes line - becomes are crap, and believe me I've got 12 or so in storage simply for collection. They are largely broken with non-scaling passives that have never been fixed since alert changes hit. It's not the becomes you should be focusing on - its the "vehicles" - which plenty of folks would actually agree is a disturbing trend
1. A bigger problem than this would be that the Smash Alerts are killing open world exploration and lairs by making it so that you can level up faster by chaining Smash Alert after Smash Alert. Additionally this has the side-effect of having lots of inexperienced level 40 players, as alerts are not designed to teach you combat nor get you to enjoy the lore & storytelling in the game (unlike Adventure Packs and Comic Series). The bosses are less impressive and are muted (they don't even talk, which for some bosses like Ripper is what made them so enjoyable).
2. You don't have an alternative choice to get them without gambling, so I can totally understand your frustration. Although I'll say myself, the Drifter store FINALLY has something I want to buy: Legacy Devices. I love that, it's 2 good devices in every pack. And what you have duplicates of you can sell on the AH for a lot of gold. So it's finally a Grab Bag that you can always win with.
+1 to Cryptic for creating the Legacy Devices and 40 Salvage is not too much to ask for IMHO. Many of those devices are incredibly valuable!
You can disagree with me and be pessimistic if you want, but I would like to take a moment to actually praise Cryptic for doing this.
3. My complaint with the Takofanes Caches is that they often drop R3 Mods as the reward. Now THAT is a slap to the face. Nobody want's those R3 Mods at level 40, R5's are really the minimum people strive for. And with Smash Alerts making it so ridiculously easy to level up... Well...
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
I did my hour long Questionite city sweep yesterday and came back
with the usual three or four full bags of stuff.
However, constantly pulling my attention to zero value 'rewards' is well,
unrewarding, and in just the few days since the lockboxes showed up I found
my self increasingly displeased with the game. Consciously I don't care about
lockboxes, but each moment of disappointment ads up.
It's not really an assumption given that the new content is on the PTS for people to check out and unless they've rebalanced it, yes, the new vehicles do overpower regular builds by a lot which means you would pretty much have to use one to run the new content. This would mean that vehicles would be mandatory. I am against that. So, first I was QQing, then I was God, and now I'm a lying Baptist announcing the apocalypse? Just from how you've been responding to my posts in this thread, it's easy to see that you're very eager to throw out insults and gloss over or ignore anything that doesn't fit your view or is inconvenient in your arguements, aren't you? How do you know I'm not Baptist? What then?
As it's been pointed out by others, becomes and vehicles are not content. I'm sorry you can't grasp that but, they're not. Nemesis Confrontation, Viper's Nest, Alerts, Burial Ground, the Tutorial. All these things are content. Becomes and vehicles are not. I am not asking them to stop making content. I'm asking them to start. I am, however, badmouthing vehicles. I will continue to do so because I consider them a waste of resources that could go to developing actual content, not what you mistakenly believe content to be. Other questions are all good ones though and it's obviously something you're concerned about which begs the question of why aren't you making threads to discuss those topics rather than coming here to insult someone for having a differing opinion than yours?
Again, vehicles and becomes are not content. There is nothing original about clicking a button on your screen and suddenly being exactly the same as everyone else. What about that do you consider original? There is no content locked inside a box. Those are the becomes that you want so very badly that you're willing to go into any thread you come across that's even remotely close to the topic and try to derail that thread into a discussion about how you can't get those becomes the way you want to and becomes are not content. They're trinkets. Vanity items. Nothing more and that's how they should stay.
Purely at you, would you knock it off with annoying red text already? Plzkthx. It's not easy on the eyes, I asked you before and others have asked you nicely to stop too.
Nothing about this is simple. It's a complex multi-faceted problem. Which is why I created a topic on it. It's significant and needs to be discussed.
I will respect your right to your opinion even if I disagree with it highly. (I always try to look for aspects of peoples opinions that I agree with too, so I'm not just being Mr. Negative)
Terrible advice. This never works, has never worked, will never work. Why? It's human behavioral science 101!
People will, on average, always always drift towards exploring boundaries & limitations and striving for the best advantage possible. It's hardcoded into our brain as it makes us as a species more adapted to survive. Were you born from your parent's having sex? Then yes, you are the product of survival of the fittest adaptation.
There's nothing wrong with that, but it should be noted this is one of the few things you can rely on for a large population. Why do you think Mods are tiered so they are harder to rank up? Why do you think leveling at first takes very little XP and then later takes a lot? It's a design that works with human players for a reason.
More specifically I've seen this argument used to justify pay-to-win attitudes that have been the DEATH of many a MMO. Do I really need to cites example to get the point across? I mean hell, just do like 5 min or research and you'll see it for yourself...
Not yet.
That's the direction this is heading though, it's an arms race where in the end you'll have to have the latest become device to play or have any reasonable shot at winning. You can say that's paranoia, but I've seen it before MANY times in different games!
Yes I'm afraid this game is going to become pay-to-win, and unlike Electronic Arts, we are not the big if we take a hit to our player base when they get frustrated.
Again, what I'm focusing on here are the become devices, which replace both your powers and appearance.
Careful, fun is subjective. You may consider it fun, others don't.
People like that? *bites back on the temptation to flame the hell out of you for that slight*
The thing about challenge is if you have a harder challenge you deserve a better reward. That's basic gameplay design, the kind that's been around since the days of Arcades (which I barely remember as a kid). Increased payout for the risk, otherwise why bother doing things the hard way?
And yes you will get the few diehards who are bored and looking for a challenge, kind of like how I thought at first it would be a good idea to try to solo Qwyjibo at 6:30 this morning and instead almost got whooped (had to call in a friend to help me for the two of us to take the monsterous ape down). That was more of a "what the hell, why not?" kind of moment. In general, the majority of the playerbase will NOT doing increased risk for the same reward and waste their time.
Time is valuable. And if you need proof of what I'm saying, just look at PvP. There's no real reward for doing PvP queues anymore so guess what? Combine with the minimum numbers of players to make a queue launch, and you have PvP instances being pretty much dead the majority of the time.
Really, the observations are lined up against what you're saying and supporting what I'm saying. Would you please re-examine your point of view?
I see, and I can agree to some extent but you are leaving out something critical that I just said, and in short that is: "Epic Challenge, Epic Rewards!"
If you want to have a harder challenge that's fine, but where's the reward for it? Heck not all rewards are even in gold, some are like the bonus cutscene for Legendary at the end of the original Halo game or a special achievement/perk (which is what a good gameplay design company like Valve often does, gives you achievements to strive for and allows it to be publicly displayed on your profile's stats).
Aside: I'll not that Core Connect STILL hasn't been connected with Champions Online. So you can't really boast of your achievements.
It's the voice of your opinion, I find much of your logic unreasonable as it's not based on the direct observations, past trends, and alternate points of view.
Noted and already known. But what's to say that doesn't change with the current direction of things. This is my concern, a legitimate concern that me just saying "I told you so" in 6 more months from now just won't cut it.
No. It proves Cryptic is listening to complaints & concerns voiced in the PTS. It's an easy fix to restrict their usage, doesn't require a detail and time-consuming re-balancing or re-assessment.
Plus let's be honest here, NOBODY wants a device they paid good money or lots of gold for to be suddenly nerfed. I don't like having my stuff I bought nerfed, and neither do any of you. You feel cheated, even if you know it was for the "greater good".
Your bias is showing. Chill out please.
I could say the same to your comment which are specifically directed at me (isn't that called flaming btw?)
Wow. Just wow. Ad hominem attack. I'm not out to "ruin" anybody's fun. This isn't about you. This isn't about me. This about the game itself, for everyone to have a chance to enjoy. And for what it's worth I realize you won't be able to make everybody happy.
I do and I shall. I will also voice my complaints if there's something that is of concern. The direction the game is heading is of significant concern.
I tried them on the PTS. I certainly have the money to get one on Live. I'm choosing not to support that financially. (in fact I spend a lot on Cosmic Keys recently)
Two words: human behavior
People are going with them because they have advantages over normal super-hero stuff you can get from the Powerhouse, not necessarily because they want them. (often times I'd say it's because of some of both)
More ad hominem attack direct at me. Lovely. -_-
Sounds like you took this topic way too personally. This is supposed to be a debate and you're targeting me specifically trying to make my look like the bad guy here. "To each their own" right?
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
I have no arguement with anything else you've said which is why I left it out of this quote but, I wanted to point out that this is incorrect. The devs of CO are now developing content specifically for vehicles. This means that vehicles are not longer optional. If someone wants to take part in the game's content, vehicles may be mandatory and that I take issue with. If this happens, it no longer becomes an issue of "Don't like it, don't use it." to, "Don't like it, don't play.", which leaves me wondering why subscribe to a game that's focusing on content I have no interest in.
Some of this frustration just needs to be verbalized, because in the middle of all of it good ideas are being shared & discussed & debated. So for the forum moderators: hold on loosely, but don't let go. (just like in the song)
I'm NOT out to destroy anybody's fun in this game. I don't have an ulterior motive of spitefulness, the only motive I have is what I stated right off the start: I care about this game and I'm concern at the direction it's taking with these Become Devices starting to exceed the player's own powers (even if they're restricted to certain areas).
Also be advised, I don't care what forum it is, if you talk to me directly like that then I will respond directly at you, trying once to reason with you. This is a behavior you can expect from me. If you persist with personal attacks I'll simply ignore you, as you're wasting my time. Please avoid taking thing personally, and if you attack somebody personally it's polite to apologize (but only if it's sincere of course).
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
"Don't like it, don't play" is what is at the core of my concern when I'm saying things like "I care for the game". If I didn't care, do you think I really would have bothered making this topic or taking the time to write out the long replies I have?
The direction of the game is concerning to me, with regards to these Become Devices. (also with regards to the scale of the XP reward from Smash Alerts compared to other content in the game, but that's a whole other topic)
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
Well quite frankly there is no reason to. That's why I don't subscribe to WoW. However if there are some missions put in that require a vehicle, and some people are excluded from it because they won't buy one. Frankly I don't see this as a problem.
It used to be that people were excluded from the AP's unless they bought them. In LotRO you're excluded from huge sections of content unless you buy it. So if there's a hand full of missions that require a vehicle and that locks some people out... That's just not that big of a deal. You still have access to 99% of the content, which is way more then most games give.
Now on the other hand, this argument "Don't like it, don't play." is simply nonsense when it comes to terms of game balance. So in this case X5 is bringing up a very valid point.
If something is broken balance wise, it effects everyone. You don't really have the option of not playing it in that case. A OP power or device is a problem and needs to be fixed, period.
Anyone who wants CO to continue should be concerned about devices, or vehicles if they are OP because they will cause problems in the game. This has been an issue in every MMO out there. Every time you see a broken power/class/item it causes problems until it's fixed.
Those kinds of things are not something that can simply be avoided.
'Don't like it, don't play it' works for things like PvP, Raids, or other types content, but does not work for broken powers/items.
That said, I don't know how broken these Become Devices are, so I can't really comment on them. But clearly the new vehicles with their 250ft range are clearly broken and need to be fixed.
I'm fine with the become devices the way they are. Honestly, besides vehicles (which may need to be looked at) I don't find any of the other becomes all that impressive.
I'm also fine with the xp rewards from smash alerts.
Until the devs make actual zones and content again there's not other new content coming out. That last sentence is the bigger issue here.
If there had never been a COH there would never have been a CO. :cool:
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I've been saying they should do this ever since become devices became available. In this super hero game, you're rarely given anything classically heroic.
I disagre to my mind if you like and enjoy them then there content. Some people like and enjoy them there for to those people there content.
Agreed becomes should follow the same balancing equation as player powers (meaning all bar the vehicles probably need some adjustment upwards while the vehicles need some downwards)
So far this is something I'm not seeing and if it dose become the case on the upside people will stop the QQing about all the grim darks.
Given that most uses existing ingame assets its probably safe to assume that they dont impact the creation of new non become devices content all that heavily.
Also given that the last few at least have come along around the same time the power sets they use have received a review its probably a way of offsetting some of the cost of that review.
|Champions Online Stuff ->| Roster | Copycat Heroes | Moments ||
In terms of MMO content is a word that has a meaning, it's not something you can change the meaning of just because you want to.
Content in MMO terms, is something you do, not what you do it with. Alerts are content even if people don't enjoy them. A new powerset however is not content, because that's not something you do, it's what you do content with.
There's players in our community right now, this very second, in the middle of Ren Center....right now....That not only out dps these devices but out tank and out heal them...simultaneously. There are players in this game, that if there was a...become Tempest or Xeno or Filip the Hero device (just for the sake of reference dont get mad temp) it would be by far the most op device in existance. If they made a become Rain Strife device that turned players into me or any other ridiculously known crazy strong hero out there, then sure, maybe we can talk about breaking the game then. But until I see a device that can match or exceed my 10k normal crits and 2k base hits on 1 character dlvled to 30, they aren't coming close to op yet. Yeah sure a lil 20k charge beam seemed stronk at first, until you realize....pff I coulda did that in 2 hits lol while the jet has to wait almost another minute and be fully charged with energy to even take another go at it.
One thing I do think they need to bring in line though is the auto attack gun range on them. Sure its only viable to abuse it against targets like Mega D, and sure it takes you forever and a day to do it, but, if they're going to give the vehicles 250 range, they need to give the AI and mobs 250 range to hit back, longer aggro range toward vehicles, and a better window of return for when a minion is pulled too far away from its start position. And then after that maybe revisiting if the minion should recover to full or not. Thats the only broken thing I've seen on the vehicles so far.
Other than that, if we wanna talk damage etc I've seen things from our own community that would make the Backup Devices from last month look like a 3 use Harmon labs rocket.
Hence the "arms race" factor I was talking about. The next thing that happens is that the noobish players will whine that it the game is "too hard" and thus they will buff the players again. Buff, buff, buff until eventually like in one Star Wars MMO you had monk-like melee characters literally PUNCHING freaking AT-AT walkers to death. This kind of thing breaks games, and I hate to say it's slippery slope like that because I want to believe this game won't go that way, but I mean... like how many times you have get slapped upside the head by game developers doing the same bad choices before you're like me going AAAAAARGGH STAHP!
wraithshadow13 is correct, what is needed is more content that you can go running around exploring. Places to go with things to do there, and reason to go there. I mean look at Canada or the Desert or Monster Island lately? Barely populated, because everybody is power-leveling with Smash Alerts. When you used to have CTP materials on Monster Island you could always expect to see a few people out farming in the remote corners of the island. Now? Not so much...
Again, this is what I mean when I say the "bell curve" or the "average" mass of the player population with regards to human behaviors. There's more goodies over there, people go there. It's human nature to strive to be the best. It really leaves me wondering...
What I liked about vehicles when they were first mentioned was that they would have some awesome travel capability. Instead it's starting to look like the sarcastic PyroGX topic I made a couple months ago: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=161061
Can I say "I told ya so" yet?
I strongly agree. That and it would be swell to finish the power set reviews.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
|Champions Online Stuff ->| Roster | Copycat Heroes | Moments ||
Nepht, you rule.
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
But .. but .. isn't nothing more Superheroic than beeing a Jet ? Everyone here told me that
every Superhero these days uses a Jet and fires weapons from it all days instead of using
something like .. *gasp* .. Superhero-Powers :eek:
I thought the AT's were "classically heroic". I mean, they certainly cover a pretty solid gamut of the stock powers.
Arms race, and power creep, go hand in hand with ease of game access, ala easier leveling, less korean grind <
of which everything above is good if your goal is to eliminate that sense of, omg I'm not having fun with this game, all I do is gather mobs together and kill them for weeks at a time in order to earn 10% of a level. Cryptic has done a great job with that so far in this game. And honestly I wouldn't be playing this game if they weren't doing a great job with that.
Maybe this would make it easier to understand, but my background with mmos spanned a harsh section of "Grind based" anti fun gameplay that has taken 3-4 years for the industry to get rid of. Everything from Fiesta to 2 moons to the ultimate Korean suicide fest Cabal, and tons more with the same theme and self mutilation attempt.
Power creep is going to be inevitable, but since this isn't a strategy game or moba, power creep can actually be good especially in development of new areas and level cap advances etc. With the power creep thats already here, (and don't get me wrong, I was against cap raises in this game etc for a long while) but with whats already here, I honestly think if they did it right, and stopped us off at 60 for good, or, if they wanted they could pull a blizzard move and just leave cap static, while giving us raids and new gear comparable to what we'd have on if the cap was raised, there'd be an easier resolve to give us
1. A new main town.
2. A new ad campaign to attract more players.
3. A stronger better AT system.
4. New world maps that don't feel the same as the one you just played and give you a reason to go there. (aka The desert vs canada, those two areas bump heads in current progression leaving one area undone for most of your character until you come back to those areas at 25-30+) Which is fine in adding onto the free roaming elements of the game, but the delivery could be better if the player was prodded to explore both areas and not just go to the most convenient one. Aka Lemuria vs Monster Island, ex. Not only do I hate what lemuria does to my eyes, I have no reason to go there, maybe if I had a reason to ignore how ugly and clumpy my character moves through it, and go there, I might like it better.
5. More open missions and a reason to give people rewards like legacy devices and drifter salvage etc for completing.
6. More powers to use in our power sets, (Looking directly at the heavy weapons tree, cmon we gotta have something more flashy to do with our giant weapons than a thunderbolt and a fire patch...)
7. More optional powers for AT's
8. More flexibility with freeforms, guy mentioned earlier build slots that were different from our current ones that not only loaded you out with a different role but entirely new skills and super stats. I'd buy that, not gonna lie.
But the arms race has already been decided, and we got power creeped already when they changed the way our super stats worked and gave us talent trees. The vehicles and recent thing with the Backup Devices didn't do anything but show us what the majority of min maxers have already been doing, but the min maxers have been doing it 100 times better. They just don't tell the world about it and leave you to guess wtf just happend when the grab alerts boss hp melted in a few seconds and nobody used a jet or a Backup.<
this happend to me in a grab last night, and I still have no idea who in my group was melting, but it was easily the highest dps I've seen ever aside from a Qphthongthoht, whatever his name is group a few weeks ago.(Still crossing my fingers for an actual side kick system where I can design the Robin to my Batman.)
Most games, that Ive seen, give access to 100% of the game if you pay for it. I think your analogy struggles in the face of the fact that even subscribers (monthly or LTS) are excluded from vehicle only content if they do not wish to use a become device.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
That's true, but I had thought they were going to allow you to still be involved even if you didn't have a vehicle, like if you have a flight power or something.
Who knows how this will develop. I am not sure that telling someone that they cannot play the new content, in a game that is (IMO) content starved, because they cannot afford to retcon their TP is a good idea.
Unless we are going down the trail of:
You cannot access this new AP/CS/whatever because you dont have power/tp, "x."
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
They already said it multiple times that if you didn't have a vehicle that temporary ones similar to the jet buffs will be available.
I'm not part of that "everyone".
Those are nothing I didn't have before Free for All. I'm talking about missions and villains that feel like they'd be in a comic book from back in the day. I'm not a fan of today's comic books. Too much "gritty" stuff and anti-heroes. I'm not gonna get into it, but my favorite comics were like, the original Spider-Man and Iron Man books.
Anyways, I think this whole argument about everyone becoming the same thing and throwing customization out the window is pretty bogus.
You could argue that vehicles allow you to customize your character even further with new gadgets. And they'll be even cooler if they figure out how to get your character to show on the vehicles.
Mind, I have very, very little interest in vehicles, and I wouldn't care if they were removed from the entire game, but they are just another way to customize a character.
I have no issue against them, but wish the time spent on them had been spent in other ways.
If there had never been a COH there would never have been a CO. :cool:
Myself I would of been happy if they were effectively nothing more then just a travel power. Would of taken a lot less time and resources to pull that off.
Exactly that is THE issue against them for me. Heck if we had masses of devs and some of them
would create them, i would also have no problem with them. But we only have 2-3 devs or whaetever
is left, and nobody is working on real content, all we get is this gimmick stuff.
Same here.
Super Vehicles are a mainstay of the Comic Hero mythos.
What I want is a van like the Ninja Turtles that me and my SG lieutenants could sit in on our way to a lair...ok the lair bit is a lie we would drive about shouting NO YEW!!!! at randoms.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I strongly agree.
Just to see what I could do with the 300 ft travel power I hunted down and killed both Grond and Qwyjibo alone. Never took even a point of damage and obliterated both within a matter of minutes. Alternate fully charged shots and the reload, rinse & repeat. No superpowers at all, just one button on a become device while out of range. It's not the damage, it's that the AI in this game isn't coded to handle this at all. A simple change that can be done early on is to just
It becomes really quite boring to just sit there completely stationary with a jet and unload shot after shot at an enemy that can't possibly threaten you back. I thought games were supposed to be about having fun?
*sigh*
And again, what I have to admit is fun about them is being able to fly really fast. I do love how they are for speed, makes total sense for a jet to be that fast, and is fun to fly. I'd rather the weapons be replaced with powers that make you do maneuvers honestly. i.e.: "DO A BARREL ROLL!" :cool:
So yeah in short, I would also have been plenty happy with them as ultra-fast travel power devices. I'd be even happier with a new zone on the level of detail of our existing Zones.
PS: The become devices are bad for PvP, just in case you were wondering. I've done a few duels with the new ones (vehicles, Doomlord, Celestial, etc. and you'll get your **** handed to you by most PvP players with their better builds). So for once this isn't something that you have to worry about for PvP.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
Why is the mantra of 'if you don't like it, don't use it' so hard? No one's forcing you to use a jet.
Geez. If Cryptic listened to all the vehicle naysayers and the 'make it moar leet' types, they'd be bankrupt within the week.
Consolidate currency!
Munitions additions
Petition to take in game report spam function out
Why not to do surveys and free offers
..but I'm also in the opinion that the devices shouldn't be the sole focus of development for the game.
We build characters using stats, costume, biography, FX coloring.. and a plethora of other things..
Only to have all that work rendered pointless to play as "something else"..
I have hover disc as a travel power.. its the best vehicle the game has made.
- -
I would have been VERY happy to be able to see a model of my character using "sitheroic" inside a faux cockpit of a vehicle and still have ALL the same stats and powers that I spent so much time building MAYBE something additional (though weaker imho).
But to make a super OP device to erase and replace (not compliment) what I spent 3 years perfecting? No thank you. From the feedback I hear from people they wanted the "keep my powers" model too.
We all know this makes animations hard.. but as I said.. I'd simply keep the model completely still and use ONE emanation point (if you notice the FX come out of the same geo location no matter what emanation point you choose).
Would it be ugly? Yes. But I think it's alot better than "Become Vehicle" Just my opinion
- -
IF .. IFFFFFFF These devices become a MASSIVE financial success then I'll tuck tail and shut up. Otherwise.. that's ALOT of programming for something we didn't want.
- -
My final gripe about all these: I'm waiting for Splosions to give me some amazing telepathy FX for the new powers and he's likely been busy on shadow wings, vehicle powers, vehicle skins, and the new Become Devices.. ugh
There's the problem of jets not being able to be used in indoor instances. If they were to stick with that restriction and make jets actual TP's, there's the problem of disparity since all other TP's available now can be used both outdoors and indoors. That's my take on a possible reason why they didn't make it an actual TP.
not really as they are far faster than any other travel power - the restricted use is the trade off and perfectly fair.
Lets face it, where do you want a fast travel power? inside an instance or in the open world?
This is one of the things I said in my very first post in this thread.
No they wouldn't. I believe you've recently said in a different thread that you're fairly new to this game. What you may not realize is that people that get a monthly or lifetime subscription get a monthly stipend of 500 zen a month. Zen is what will be used to purchase the new vehicles.
Some of the people playing this game have been getting a stipend since the first month. They pretty much already have everything they want that's available for purchase on the market which means their zen just keeps piling up. That is why you will see characters mentioning that they have over 300 costumes on that character in their background info.
These will most likely be the first players to get vehicles since they already have everything else so they may as well grab this too. This means Cryptic doesn't make any money off these players aside from what they were already getting.
A lot of those players also sell their zen on the exchange so they don't have to farm questionite for things like purple secondary gear. The people exchanging their questionite for zen won't have to use any of their own real money to buy vehicles since they can earn the zen for it by farming questionite. That means Cryptic will be making less money off these players as well.
Then there are players that use their stipends to buy items like becomes and vehicles off the Z Store and then sell those to players in game for resources. This cuts Cryptic out of the process almost entirely which means that they will make no money off these players.
If you were to read many of the comments in this thread again, you would see that the number one thing people that are against vehicles are asking for is more content. The more there is to do in this game, the more likely players are going to stick around, possibly subscribe or spend some cash on the Z store to buy something fir their character or get another character slot, and even encourage their friends to play as well.
In short: Proliferation of vehicles and becomes does not mean that it is huge profit for Cryptic.
I got my LTS when the game was in beta. So i've been getting the stipend since it went into effect. I've bought some hideouts, costume sets, ect... I even got a jet, and I currently have 3,500zen in my account. Zen I've not spent a extra dime to get.
So for me to buy a vehicle, is simply a question of if I want it or not. Even at 1500 zen I can still get one and not even think twice about it.
Then again what the person you were posting also doesn't realize is that this idea of "If you don't like it, don't use it" does not, will not, and never has worked in a MMO.
If something is broken people will abuse it, and that breaks the game as a whole.
My comment was more directed to his statement that the game would be broke in a week if the devs were to listen to the players saying to work on things other than becomes/vehicles but, you make my case perfectly in what I'd been saying. Depending on the prices of the vehicles when they come out, you could grab two or three if you wanted, keep one for yourself and sell the other two to other players for resources. Since you've been a LTS for that long it means that Cryptic would literally make no money at all off any of those purchases. You could also sell some of your zen on the exchange which means decreased profits for Cryptic if players buy your zen with their questionite.
Despite the claims of some people that vehicles and becomes can be used as an aid for new players that are using ATs, I think it can also be a strong turn off for those same people as well. If I'm new to a game where it seems that the focus of that game is customization and being able to build my character any way I want, I'm not going to be as excited about that game if I'm struggling in part of it, try to get help, and find out the simple answer is to use something that makes my actual character irrelevant by turning it into something else. If I'm also told that I have to pay additional money to get that option on top of what I'm already paying? Chances are I'm going to find a different game to spend my money on.