So your characters don't use vehicles much less use vehicle mounted weapons, nothing wrong with that but I happen to have three or four characters who's concepts would greatly benefit from the inclusion of vehicles, what makes your concepts so much more valid than mine or anyone else that wants a vehicle?
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Because her concept doesnt call for yours to be potentially excluded from content in a game starving for it.
Her concept doesnt call for yours to be, by design, inferior (someone using a vehicle has the option to travel faster than any TP or to fight using their own powers).
I happen to have multiple characters for whom vehicles will be a wonderful addition. I may not play them much (I tend to focus on one or two main characters), but having vehicles will allow me to finally complete characters that have always felt wrong in the past.
But aspects of the implementation here, and some of what has been discussed for the future of the vehicle system, make me cringe.
I can see potential issues here with balance - I have a character who wouldn't use a vehicle because it's not part of their concept. I still want to get around quickly, so I spend the 2 advantage points t up one of my TPs to R3. You simply take a vehicle and now essentially have 2 more advantage points to use than I do.
Devs: Please do not make vehicles superior to regular powers in speed, range, or damage, (or at the very least heavily restrict when and ho you can use them).
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I think the best option would be to offer a "non-vehicle" vehicle. That is to say, a device which allows you to keep all your existing powers, look, and so forth, but ups your range, speed, and damage to that of a vehicle. Now if the specific use of vehicles was to be restricted, those that don't use them still have an option to participate w/o breaking concept.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I'm glad that these vehicles are limited in their usability power wise and tankability. I really hope that a lot of the custom stuff coming will still be balanced to the rest of the game.
I don't want Champions to feel like a completely different game when I hop into a vehicle. And I don't want to feel like I have a superior advantage over a player without one when doing the same content.
Devs: Please do not make vehicles superior to regular powers in speed, range, or damage, (or at the very least heavily restrict when and ho you can use them).
This. And I'll add that allowing high-speed vehicles with long-range attacks in open zones isn't heavily restricting them: a tremendous amount of PvE content is in the open zones. I took a Hawkwing over to the Mega-D open mission and was only unable to solo it because of the time limit: the extended range of the weapons let me pick off the targets in the second and third phases without having to fight anyone (I was easily able to run away after one-shotting the target before its guards could respond), and when I got to the Mega-D itself I was able to park myself on the street (well, over the street, out of range of wandering Foxbattlebots etc.) and lay down the damage while the Mega-D just stood there trying to figure out what to do. As it was, I was well on my way to killing it when the time finally expired. If I had had one or two cohorts doing the same thing, the Mega-D would have gone down quite literally without a fight.
I strongly favor vehicles that use the same set of powers that individuals do, or are at least balanced with them. For combat powers, I lean toward the former; for travel powers, I lean toward the latter: I'm OK with some vehicles having high top speeds, as long as there are heavy restrictions on their maneuverability, such as no sideslipping, hovering, or backward movement. In fact:
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I think the best option would be to offer a "non-vehicle" vehicle. That is to say, a device which allows you to keep all your existing powers, look, and so forth, but ups your range, speed, and damage to that of a vehicle. Now if the specific use of vehicles was to be restricted, those that don't use them still have an option to participate w/o breaking concept.
IMHO, this is a massive kludge. The best option would be to design the vehicular powers such that it would be acceptable for an individual with an appropriate concept to take them. Take the aforementioned high-speed linear vehicular flight and make it available to individuals as a Supersonic Flight travel power. If you can't design it in a way that it doesn't become the go-to travel power for individuals, you have no business giving it to vehicles.
IMHO, this is a massive kludge. The best option would be to design the vehicular powers such that it would be acceptable for an individual with an appropriate concept to take them. Take the aforementioned high-speed linear vehicular flight and make it available to individuals as a Supersonic Flight travel power. If you can't design it in a way that it doesn't become the go-to travel power for individuals, you have no business giving it to vehicles.
I would highly support a Hyper-speed device that amps flight and/or superspeed up to vehicle levels. It would actually make superspeed worthwhile to have.
That said, I'm not in favor of nerfing vehicle powers to bring them in line with existing content. Vehicles are supposed to be better the average superhuman, and taking that away takes away the reason for implementing them.
Since this is apparently going Live as is (based on this morning's problems), it's time to repost some bug reports:
BUG: /say window that pops up over a character's head isn't big enough to encompass the text within. The 'border' of white space it has on Live is now gone, causing the black text to poke out into nothingness.
BUG: /targetinfo loses the target's head/shoulders in the window that pops up. On Live, you see the character. On PTS, said picture isn't there anymore.
I would highly support a Hyper-speed device that amps flight and/or superspeed up to vehicle levels. It would actually make superspeed worthwhile to have.
FWIW, I would highly support amping most travel powers without the use of a device. Things like Acrobatics and swinging should be amped in ways other than top speed, because the idea of someone running (without superspeed) or swinging as fast as a fighter jet just feels wrong; but nearly every other travel power could do with a top speed boost.
That said, I'm not in favor of nerfing vehicle powers to bring them in line with existing content. Vehicles are supposed to be better the average superhuman, and taking that away takes away the reason for implementing them.
In my view, vehicles are not supposed to be better than the average superhuman; he is, after all, a superhuman. While it would be too much to ask for a superman clone who is faster than a speeding bullet, it should be possible for him to be more powerful than a locomotive; and an Iron Man clone ought to be able to play tag with jet fighters.
Vehicles are supposed to be better than the average human, and they're supposed to be different than the average superhuman (unless a concerted effort is made by a given player to make them the same, probably for RP reasons); and that ability to vary your powers by hopping into a vehicle is reason enough to implement them.
Heck, an alternate travel power, with all other powers remaining the same, would be enough reason to implement them; but I can understand why there would be problems with letting an Unarmed champion hop in a jet and continue to dish out punches and kicks as he flies around in its cockpit. Unless the vehicle in question is a mecha of some sort, it's probably best to swap out the pilot's powers for a second of ranged combat powers representing the vehicle's ordnance.
If we're going to talk about numbers, Vehicles are much weaker than players. an issue though, is that the range of the AI is too short, they need to be able to react to being hit beyond their current ranges. So, we need an AI update, in other words.
As far as speed goes, it simply needs to be less manuverable, don't tamper with its speed, thats all the jets have. Speed.
IMHO, you'd get just the right balance of speed and maneuverability if you gave jet flight a built-in forward speed equal to jet boots top speed, and the ability to vary that in any direction by up to 50%: "A" or "D" to go 100% forward and 50% sideways, Space or "X" to go 100% forward and 50% up or down, "W" to go 150% forward, and "S" to go 50% forward. The inability to remain stationary would be a more than adequate downside, and if it were available as a travel power, I could see people taking it to get around and turning it off to fight.
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Because her concept doesnt call for yours to be potentially excluded from content in a game starving for it.
Her concept doesnt call for yours to be, by design, inferior (someone using a vehicle has the option to travel faster than any TP or to fight using their own powers).
I happen to have multiple characters for whom vehicles will be a wonderful addition. I may not play them much (I tend to focus on one or two main characters), but having vehicles will allow me to finally complete characters that have always felt wrong in the past.
But aspects of the implementation here, and some of what has been discussed for the future of the vehicle system, make me cringe.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Din't cross my mind...thanks
Devs: Please do not make vehicles superior to regular powers in speed, range, or damage, (or at the very least heavily restrict when and ho you can use them).
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I think the best option would be to offer a "non-vehicle" vehicle. That is to say, a device which allows you to keep all your existing powers, look, and so forth, but ups your range, speed, and damage to that of a vehicle. Now if the specific use of vehicles was to be restricted, those that don't use them still have an option to participate w/o breaking concept.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I don't want Champions to feel like a completely different game when I hop into a vehicle. And I don't want to feel like I have a superior advantage over a player without one when doing the same content.
I strongly favor vehicles that use the same set of powers that individuals do, or are at least balanced with them. For combat powers, I lean toward the former; for travel powers, I lean toward the latter: I'm OK with some vehicles having high top speeds, as long as there are heavy restrictions on their maneuverability, such as no sideslipping, hovering, or backward movement. In fact:
IMHO, this is a massive kludge. The best option would be to design the vehicular powers such that it would be acceptable for an individual with an appropriate concept to take them. Take the aforementioned high-speed linear vehicular flight and make it available to individuals as a Supersonic Flight travel power. If you can't design it in a way that it doesn't become the go-to travel power for individuals, you have no business giving it to vehicles.
I would highly support a Hyper-speed device that amps flight and/or superspeed up to vehicle levels. It would actually make superspeed worthwhile to have.
That said, I'm not in favor of nerfing vehicle powers to bring them in line with existing content. Vehicles are supposed to be better the average superhuman, and taking that away takes away the reason for implementing them.
BUG: /say window that pops up over a character's head isn't big enough to encompass the text within. The 'border' of white space it has on Live is now gone, causing the black text to poke out into nothingness.
BUG: /targetinfo loses the target's head/shoulders in the window that pops up. On Live, you see the character. On PTS, said picture isn't there anymore.
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In my view, vehicles are not supposed to be better than the average superhuman; he is, after all, a superhuman. While it would be too much to ask for a superman clone who is faster than a speeding bullet, it should be possible for him to be more powerful than a locomotive; and an Iron Man clone ought to be able to play tag with jet fighters.
Vehicles are supposed to be better than the average human, and they're supposed to be different than the average superhuman (unless a concerted effort is made by a given player to make them the same, probably for RP reasons); and that ability to vary your powers by hopping into a vehicle is reason enough to implement them.
Heck, an alternate travel power, with all other powers remaining the same, would be enough reason to implement them; but I can understand why there would be problems with letting an Unarmed champion hop in a jet and continue to dish out punches and kicks as he flies around in its cockpit. Unless the vehicle in question is a mecha of some sort, it's probably best to swap out the pilot's powers for a second of ranged combat powers representing the vehicle's ordnance.
As far as speed goes, it simply needs to be less manuverable, don't tamper with its speed, thats all the jets have. Speed.