Not really related to the big important update stuff, but it's still bothering me since it was introduced on live:
When RAD sphere is active, weapon geos no longer appear in your hands when using relevant powers.
Please try to fix this, it makes both my characters with RAD pretty disappointing to play since they're munitions and claws/blades respectively and have been wandering around with invisible weapons for over a month now...
Persevere - the heal in sentry on receiving single target damage - healed me for quintuple figures. 14grand, 16 grand and once 24000. I am assuming this is a bug?
This is on a regen build - I think I had Recovery, Protector and sentry, regen passive.
I am all for it - as long as only I can use it, of course. Hmm.
By the way - excellent work here. It looks hormingulous to balance - but a good lot of fun. This whole new build has totally reinvigorated my interest in the game - even pushing me into PvP on live.
Good work sirs, Good luck on the balancing though.
There are ways to get Crit chance buffs in most of the stat trees:
Presence tree gets a skill to add crit chance from secondary superstats,
Strength tree can use Str for melee crit chance,
Int tree can boost effects of non-superstats or secondary superstats (so if you don't have Dex superstatted or you have it as a secondary superstat, its crit chance given would increase),
Ego tree can use secondary superstats for crit chance,
Rec tree can get a skill that buffs crit chance when you're over 90% of your maximum energy
Avenger tree can get increased Crit Chance for targets over 90% health
Warden tree can buff crit chance on melee combo attacks
Brawler tree gets a crit chance buff from Glory of Battle
Guardian tree can stack a debuff (from ranged attacks) on a target that increases your chance to crit them
Sentinel tree can increase heals' crit chance
Vindicator tree can get flat increases to single target attacks and AoE attacks (two separate talents)
About the only way to be unable to increase your crit chance is to go Con or End superstat with no Dex as secondary and be using Commander, Arbiter or Overseer trees.
There's also the Critical Strike substat on gear, too.
Will we be getting Tier 2-6 Secondary Gear like we do with Primary Gear? Also I'm sure someone's mentioned it before but the Tier 2 Vendors only give you the option of buying a T2 Armaments Cache, unlike the other tiers that allow you to buy Offence, Defence and Utility Cashes.
Dodge tanking is now impossible for all practical intents and purposes, unless some as yet unseen factor (high level gear, dexterity mastery) can push the dodge chance near or over 100%.
Tested a dodge build, with LR rank 3, 219 dex and the added dodge chance from the dex specialization you're sitting at 54.2% dodge chance. Essentially one hit every two is going to be totally unmitigated, making dodge completely useless both in PvE and PvP. Even considering further increases from powers (i.e. evasive maneuvers) and top-end gear, I fail to see how you can push it over 80%, which still means you die once every 5 hits.
On the other side, the invudodge and defidodge builds get the possibility of inbuilt added dodge chance with the specialization trees...
I see the chance from positive way.
54 % dodge chance plus 75+% avoidance means 40% mitigattion. And with some defence, LR tanks actually enjoy about 50% or even higher mitigation (in average). In PvE, LR tanks have better effect from BCR + RR. They also seem to get better effective from "increase gain defence from gears". In PvP, it seems that LR tanks suffer less influence from armor pentration.
I persaonlly want them to make dodge have more significant weakness -- dodge become 0 when be paralyzed or avoidance suffer geart reduction when be snared or rooted. Ofc the tradeoff is that you may completely dodge CC effects or sharply reduce CC strength if you dodge successfully.
54 % dodge chance plus 75+% avoidance means 40% mitigattion. And with some defence, LR tanks actually enjoy about 50% or even higher mitigation (in average). In PvE, LR tanks have better effect from BCR + RR. They also seem to get better effective from "increase gain defence from gears". In PvP, it seems that LR tanks suffer less influence from armor pentration.
I persaonlly want them to make dodge have more significant weakness -- dodge become 0 when be paralyzed or avoidance suffer geart reduction when be snared or rooted. Ofc the tradeoff is that you may completely dodge CC effects or sharply reduce CC strength if you dodge successfully.
I think current changes to dodge are overall good - the biggest change is actually not so much into dodge, but rather in it's interaction with charged attacks. It's no longer automatic mitigation to charge attacks, which is a good thing.
What you propose though, is principally same as 'lets make it so that 0.1% of all attacks cause you to suffer 20,000 points of unavoidable damage'. It would mean that anyone relying on dodge as a defense, will be almost automatically killed by taking a hit from paralyze. This would mean the only viable way to use dodge, would be as a secondary mitigation on top of defiance/invulnerability. Currently dodge works to mitigate overall damage, even if randomly, and as long as you can block during bigger nukes, you should be fine with it.
Is it viable as the only defense for primary tank? I don't know. Even as it is now it might be too unpredictable, because eventually you will end up held, knocked, or otherwise unable to block during a big spike.. and if your luck runs out, you might not survive it. You can counter holds with active defense, but it may be that nothing will save you from knock chained with a spike that happens to go through your dodge.
Yup, the heal is added functionality to the Sigils, not a replacement. Important to note, however, that the build picked up the percentage based healing I was experimenting with and it will not have that for launch (it will have regular healing).
I'm also very curious how the new Sigils (and new Circle) perform in solo and group settings.
Yup, the heal is added functionality to the Sigils, not a replacement. Important to note, however, that the build picked up the percentage based healing I was experimenting with and it will not have that for launch (it will have regular healing).
I'm also very curious how the new Sigils (and new Circle) perform in solo and group settings.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo leave it as is! It's a great supplemental heal as is and great for creating a temporary safe zone / fall back zone. Unless I guess you plan to leave rank 3 at 75 hp or so per sigil but still percent heals are so much nicer.
Also any chance you can get the alerts base level nudged to 40, always confuses the hell out of me when I'm suddenly 10 levels weaker and I go around thinking I forgot to equip something.
There's something fishy going on with Circle of Radiant Glory...
Bug: Radiant Glory either doesn't go to extended cooldown when you get defeated, or sometimes doesn't disappear at all. This has thus far been just in powerhouse combat station tests (I haven't tested if this is same outside, but I assume it would be). I put down the circle, and go get myself defeated. I go splat, get the 'rocover' option window for a few seconds.. then automatically get revived by the circle. Much of the time the circle never vanishes - simply reviving me in place.. and I can go through this several times over. Sometimes the circle might vanish, but I've yet to see it going to the long cooldown.. so I can simply lay down the circle again. Once now the circle didn't revive me - it was still there on the floor while I was morosely laying flat across it.. it refused to disappear, but I had to use 'recover' option anyway.
edit: update: the circle not reviving you appears to be connected to where you stand inside the circle: you have to stand at the very center of it, or the revive effect doesn't seem to work - it doesn't work if you stand near the edge within the visual effect, even if it's close enough that you maintain the circle normally (and see the buff effect on yourself).
Thanks for the detailed report! Should be all fixed up now.
Useless info time! While this isnt the cheapest possible retcon its pretty darn close but the price to completely wipe the slate at 40 was 1048g 48n 21l and took about 10 minutes mashing left click and space bar...... Can we get this retcon system reworked soon?
Bullet beatdown and 2 gun mojo still need more than that, nothing here prevents them from doing a flurry of 1's vs IDF users(aka everyone), making them 2 of the weakest attacks in game >.> Come on, buff dual pistols more plz, nobody used them since... the game came out rly.
These changes have me considering a munitions build. I tied out Two gun mojo and i thought it was ok but wasn't impressed.
To you guys that are more familiar with munitions, is Two gun mojo on par with TK assault or lightning arc?
Just did a quick check with no passives, no specialization points, and leftover level 26 gear that I was too lazy to remove in Guardian. Intelligence superstatted too, for what it's worth.
Two Gun Mojo R1: 225 per 0.5, 11 initial energy, 8.6 maintain.
TK Assault R1: 148-328 per 0.5, (238 average?), 9.2 energy.
Lightning Arc R1: 181-401 per 0.5 (291 average?), 12 energy.
It's definitely closer than it used to be, but it still doesn't come close to either of those powers in range or damage, and only beats LA in energy efficiency.
To you guys that are more familiar with munitions, is Two gun mojo on par with TK assault or lightning arc?
Hahahahaha... Hah... No.
Right now on pts using the same stats/gear, just changing to relevant passives for each: *Went on and retested again, found out my spec tree had been messed up for some of the tests because of the randomly resetting of points, also, i dunno where pulse beam rifle being 2500 came from, possibly an older test with actives involved... So here, freshly parsed dps tests done at the same time with the same talents/specs/gear with the only variables being passives and the toggle for TK.*
Munitions done with Kinetic manipulation:
TGMJ hitting for around ~1500dps
Assault rifle: ~2000dps
Arc and PBR done with elec form:
Arc: ~2100dps
PBR: ~2200dps
TK with ego form+mental disc:
TK assault: ~2400dps
I've never understood the obsession with comparing completely different powers and railing on ones that don't meet some kind of equivalency with a completely unrelated power in a completely different set.
Why do you care that Two Gun Mojo isn't as "good" (whatever that means) as Lightning Arc? It just doesn't matter. Two different powers in two different sets that do two different kinds of damage and have two different kinds of synergies within their respective sets. It's an extremely narrow view of power design and leads to CoX-style powers that all do exactly the same DPS, EPS, and DPE; which is just DULL.
The powers in CO used to be much more diverse than they are know. Each powers pass seems to make things that much more alike instead of distinctive, and that's a shame.
I've never understood the obsession with comparing completely different powers and railing on ones that don't meet some kind of equivalency with a completely unrelated power in a completely different set.
Why do you care that Two Gun Mojo isn't as "good" (whatever that means) as Lightning Arc? It just doesn't matter. Two different powers in two different sets that do two different kinds of damage and have two different kinds of synergies within their respective sets. It's an extremely narrow view of power design and leads to CoX-style powers that all do exactly the same DPS, EPS, and DPE; which is just DULL.
The powers in CO used to be much more diverse than they are know. Each powers pass seems to make things that much more alike instead of distinctive, and that's a shame.
Why should one power, of a given tier, be inherently less effective than another power of the same tier ?
Why do you care that Two Gun Mojo isn't as "good" (whatever that means) as Lightning Arc? It just doesn't matter.
Tell that to the guy i'm shooting with TGMJ in pvp that is taking negative damage from the power because he's mitigating it so low that the heals it's triggering on him are actually giving him HPS instead of causing DPS.
Or tell it to some PvE boss that's tearing you a new one while using tgmj and you can't get his health down fast enough. But then going up against the same boss you flatten him with TK assault in half the time.
I've never understood the obsession with comparing completely different powers and railing on ones that don't meet some kind of equivalency with a completely unrelated power in a completely different set.
Why do you care that Two Gun Mojo isn't as "good" (whatever that means) as Lightning Arc? It just doesn't matter. Two different powers in two different sets that do two different kinds of damage and have two different kinds of synergies within their respective sets. It's an extremely narrow view of power design and leads to CoX-style powers that all do exactly the same DPS, EPS, and DPE; which is just DULL.
The powers in CO used to be much more diverse than they are know. Each powers pass seems to make things that much more alike instead of distinctive, and that's a shame.
This is the drawback of 'freeform' system. In 'class based' system (e.g. archetypes) you balance the wholes against eachother - and it doesn't matter if one power is weaker than another of same tier, if the other powers make up for it, and balance the whole. But when you can cherrypick the best powers across the frameworks into a custom build, you face a situation where you simply end up picking the best option from each tier, and a power that's comparatively weaker than others of the same tier, will be obsolated.
Synergies can help this somewhat, as can damage types - and passives that boost certain specific group of powers can also group the powers into sort of inherent 'class', but when all you really need is a couple of good attack powers, that just isn't enough. If PBR can always outperform 2-gun mojo in any given situation, then the only reason anyone would pick 2GM is for flavor reasons - and anyone doing so will get the short end.
It's a difficult issue, because as you say, the search for balance can easily lead to powers becoming essentially carbon copies of eachother, just with different visuals. But neither is it good if 90% of diverse powers fall into disuse simply because they aren't competitive in comparison to other options.
I've never understood the obsession with comparing completely different powers [...snip...]
And that might be your problem right there; assuming that two powers that essentially do exactly the same thing (i.e. do damage*) are "completely" different powers. They're not. They're almost exactly the same thing, except with different animations.
*in a game where different damage types tend to have very little impact in the greater scheme of things, except perhaps to determine which offensive passive or energy unlock to choose.
Is anyone else having trouble getting Item Modification to actually work? Tried dragging them into the slots (offense to offense slot, defense to defense slot, etc.), right-clicking, double-clicking. No luck.
Why should one power, of a given tier, be inherently less effective than another power of the same tier ?
Why should it be identical to another power in a completely different set that has different passives, mechanics, and synergies? I'm saying it doesn't matter. You say it should. Ok, why?
Tell that to the guy i'm shooting with TGMJ in pvp that is taking negative damage from the power because he's mitigating it so low that the heals it's triggering on him are actually giving him HPS instead of causing DPS.
PvP will never have the kind of balance you expect it to have. Even if the damage of TGMJ was increased you'd still have the same problem. It's just one of those powers that's inherently not effective against Invulnerability, IDF, and/or BCR/RR/Dodge in PvP. That doesn't mean it's broken or needs to be fixed.
Or tell it to some PvE boss that's tearing you a new one while using tgmj and you can't get his health down fast enough. But then going up against the same boss you flatten him with TK assault in half the time.
Again, this is an overly simplistic example. What about some PvE boss that's resistant to energy damage but not physical? Or what about that stack of Enrage you get that your Lightning toon doesn't have? Or the extra damage from Close the Gap? Or that your Munitions toon is likely to be DEX/EGO and benefits from crits that your END/REC Lightning toon doesn't have? Powers don't exist in a vacuum -- they have very well-defined synergies that allow them to behave in ways not necessarily apparent if you just look at base stats.
Or what about that stack of Enrage you get that your Lightning toon doesn't have? .
That stack of enrage on its own is meaningless, and requires a full maintain.
Or the extra damage from Close the Gap?
Not enough to make a difference compared to other powers. Plus that's an advantage that has to be purchaced, just like other powers have advantages (that also have to be purchased) of their own. And improving two gun mojo will not break these distinctive features.
Or that your Munitions toon is likely to be DEX/EGO and benefits from crits that your END/REC Lightning toon doesn't have?
We are free to select which stats we focus on in this game, and even then that's besides the point, because improving the effectiveness of two gun wont change that.
Powers don't exist in a vacuum -- they have very well-defined synergies that allow them to behave in ways not necessarily apparent if you just look at base stats.
Two-gun mojo is weaker than just about every other power of its class--period. Improving its effectiveness will not break any of its synergies or that of other powers. It would merely make it more likely for people to actually pick it and enjoy those synergies.
EDIT: In closing, yes, we know certain sets have their own synergies and such, the difference is that for sets other than munitions, they have their synergies and they have their effective powers as well. Munitions? That one mostly has its synergies.
Again, this is an overly simplistic example. What about some PvE boss that's resistant to energy damage but not physical? Or what about that stack of Enrage you get that your Lightning toon doesn't have? Or the extra damage from Close the Gap? Or that your Munitions toon is likely to be DEX/EGO and benefits from crits that your END/REC Lightning toon doesn't have? Powers don't exist in a vacuum -- they have very well-defined synergies that allow them to behave in ways not necessarily apparent if you just look at base stats.
I would like to see PVE bosses that take advantage of Physical vs. Energy vs. Paranormal defense. If they're not using a defensive passive of any sort, though, then it's not really going to mean anything.
One stack of Enrage on a Dex/Ego character means nothing. Hell, eight stacks probably wouldn't mean much to them if they're not statting Strength. Even with crits and Close the Gap, the damage on TGM is still going to be inferior from melee range (if you REALLY want to use Close the Gap) compared to Lightning Arc from close and long-range.
Stuff that procs the Munitions Energy Unlock: Munitions powers that can't be used simultaneously (except for maybe Mini Mines but that's Mini Mines)
Stuff that procs the Electricity Energy Unlock: Nearly everything. In melee range, Sparkstorm. Whenever you feel like it, Ball Lightning.
Really, the only thing TGM has over Lightning Arc is the fact that it doesn't self-root. Then... There's TK Assault. This also has a similar energy unlock, but with the added synergy of a toggle passive that buffs damage, crit rates, and reduces energy costs.
The only situation I can think of where Two Gun Mojo MIGHT have an advantage over either of those powers is if you're using Kinetic Mastery to test all three powers. Even then, I wouldn't be surprised if it still fell short.
Even if the damage of TGMJ was increased you'd still have the same problem. It's just one of those powers that's inherently not effective against Invulnerability, IDF, and/or BCR/RR/Dodge in PvP. That doesn't mean it's broken or needs to be fixed.
Except i can tear those people to shreds with TK assault, which is the same power as TGMJ with a different animation which apparently causes it to deal about 1000 more dps and 50ft. more range.
Again, this is an overly simplistic example. What about some PvE boss that's resistant to energy damage but not physical?
Where? What boss? I've never seen any boss in the game that had enough defense against a specific damage type to make any difference in the overall fight.
Or what about that stack of Enrage you get that your Lightning toon doesn't have? Or the extra damage from Close the Gap?
Oh yes, i forgot about the grand +1.3% damage i get from that one stack of enrage!
Close the gap causes the power to deal less damage than taking rank 3 as the 30% maximum bonus from it is not a base damage increase but a diminishing return increase.
Or that your Munitions toon is likely to be DEX/EGO and benefits from crits that your END/REC Lightning toon doesn't have?
I did my tests on the same toon, same gear, same specs, same talents. Like i said, all i did was switch passives and the powers themselves. All of them are easily maintained to fullest potential on an ego dex/int build now.
Personally, I have 18 level 40 characters, each of them based around a different set, 14 of those characters are almost never played, as I just feel pathetically bad or so overpowered they aren't even enjoyable to play. That's what this is about, all the sets should be able to perform to the same standards in whatever field they're good at, whether that be tanking, dpsing, supporting, or some kind of hybrid. In reality, most of them suck and aren't worth the time to play once you've used any of the well synergized sets.
Oh, and my main has been munitions since i started playing in october '09.
Yup, the heal is added functionality to the Sigils, not a replacement. Important to note, however, that the build picked up the percentage based healing I was experimenting with and it will not have that for launch (it will have regular healing).
I'm also very curious how the new Sigils (and new Circle) perform in solo and group settings.
I haven't tried the sigils, but the circle unfortunately suffers from one basic flaw. Often your death is preceded by a massive knock (or several), flying through the air, taking massive and unavoidable fall damage, then being executed before you have an opportunity to so much as put up your block - let only that you'd get a chance to call the circle to you (or move over to the circle yourself). This still makes it unreliable as a means of getting yourself back up to fight - compared to say, rebirth.. or just keeping a bottle of zombie powder with you.
The heal component just isn't strong enough in solo play to be worth wasting your time to reposition the circle. I haven't had a chance to test it in group play, but usually when you really need the healing, people are too wide spread to be caught with point blank heal, and one little tic of healing isn't going to do much good.
I think the circle would work better if it revived you regardless of your current distance to the circle - as long as the circle still exists (it didn't have time to fade out). That way it could bring you back after knock-pull-knock-squich.. but would still require you to maintain it by either standing in (most of the time), or periodically calling it over to you. It could still revive you into center of the circle, to make it's position 'focal point'.
This way it's primary function would be much more reliable, and it wouldn't matter that much if the healing component isn't comparable to true heals - it would still be a fine bonus.
I would like to see PVE bosses that take advantage of Physical vs. Energy vs. Paranormal defense. If they're not using a defensive passive of any sort, though, then it's not really going to mean anything.
Since bosses will be getting resistances this might just happen.
One stack of Enrage on a Dex/Ego character means nothing. Hell, eight stacks probably wouldn't mean much to them if they're not statting Strength. Even with crits and Close the Gap, the damage on TGM is still going to be inferior from melee range (if you REALLY want to use Close the Gap) compared to Lightning Arc from close and long-range.
So you want it to have more damage, but when I point out it can already do something like 63% more damage than listed it's not enough. Got it.
Stuff that procs the Munitions Energy Unlock: Munitions powers that can't be used simultaneously (except for maybe Mini Mines but that's Mini Mines)
Stuff that procs the Electricity Energy Unlock: Nearly everything. In melee range, Sparkstorm. Whenever you feel like it, Ball Lightning.
How exactly does that make TGMJ worse than Lightning Arc? Both can easily proc their respective unlocks.
Really, the only thing TGM has over Lightning Arc is the fact that it doesn't self-root. Then... There's TK Assault. This also has a similar energy unlock, but with the added synergy of a toggle passive that buffs damage, crit rates, and reduces energy costs.
So then Lightning Arc is horribly broken and needs to be fixed because it's clearly sub-par compared to TK Assault, right?
The only situation I can think of where Two Gun Mojo MIGHT have an advantage over either of those powers is if you're using Kinetic Mastery to test all three powers. Even then, I wouldn't be surprised if it still fell short.
And that's my point. Why must it have an advantage? Fell short of what? Is there some mythical performance bar that all powers are required to meet and/or exceed?
Except i can tear those people to shreds with TK assault, which is the same power as TGMJ with a different animation which apparently causes it to deal about 1000 more dps and 50ft. more range.
Maybe cause it's NOT the same power and doesn't work the same way as TK Assault? Cause if it did it would do the same amount of damage in the same situations. Or you can just take TK Assault if TGMJ isn't to your liking. Isn't that the point of a freeform system?
Where? What boss? I've never seen any boss in the game that had enough defense against a specific damage type to make any difference in the overall fight.
You made a ridiculous hypothetical. I countered with an equally silly hypothetical -- but at least mine has the potential to happen, whereas yours simply doesn't.
Oh yes, i forgot about the grand +1.3% damage i get from that one stack of enrage!
Close the gap causes the power to deal less damage than taking rank 3 as the 30% maximum bonus from it is not a base damage increase but a diminishing return increase.
Who R3s a tier 0/1 power? And IIRC Enrage gives you something like 8% per stack if you don't SS STR. So first you say you want the extra damage, and now you say it doesn't matter. Well which is it?
I did my tests on the same toon, same gear, same specs, same talents. Like i said, all i did was switch passives and the powers themselves. All of them are easily maintained to fullest potential on an ego dex/int build now.
So then you're basically cherry-picking and/or not taking full advantage of the various mechanics available in each framework. Either way your methodology is flawed.
And thru all this ridiculousness you still haven't told me why TGMJ needs to be exactly like Lightning Arc or TK Assault. There is more to a power's effectiveness than just its base damage.
Personally, I have 18 level 40 characters, each of them based around a different set, 14 of those characters are almost never played, as I just feel pathetically bad or so overpowered they aren't even enjoyable to play. That's what this is about, all the sets should be able to perform to the same standards in whatever field they're good at, whether that be tanking, dpsing, supporting, or some kind of hybrid. In reality, most of them suck and aren't worth the time to play once you've used any of the well synergized sets.
Sorry, but this is simply more nonsense. Most sets suck? Are we playing the same game? Just because a set is not to your particular liking doesn't mean it sucks. It just means it's not for you. I don't care for Sorcery -- it's just not my cup of tea, and not what I personally would like to see in a sorcery set (and my second oldest character is Sorcery, go figure). But that doesn't mean it sucks. Cause then you're basically saying that everyone who plays Sorcery or Munitions, or one of the other 12 sets you despise is a sucker. And that's simply not true. If Munitions sucks as hard as you claim it does (and it doesn't), then it needs much more help than simply buffing TGMJ.
And yet again I ask: WHY does every power need to be point by point equivalent to every other power?
Except i can tear those people to shreds with TK assault, which is the same power as TGMJ with a different animation which apparently causes it to deal about 1000 more dps and 50ft. more range.
Where? What boss? I've never seen any boss in the game that had enough defense against a specific damage type to make any difference in the overall fight.
Oh yes, i forgot about the grand +1.3% damage i get from that one stack of enrage!
Close the gap causes the power to deal less damage than taking rank 3 as the 30% maximum bonus from it is not a base damage increase but a diminishing return increase.
I did my tests on the same toon, same gear, same specs, same talents. Like i said, all i did was switch passives and the powers themselves. All of them are easily maintained to fullest potential on an ego dex/int build now.
Personally, I have 18 level 40 characters, each of them based around a different set, 14 of those characters are almost never played, as I just feel pathetically bad or so overpowered they aren't even enjoyable to play. That's what this is about, all the sets should be able to perform to the same standards in whatever field they're good at, whether that be tanking, dpsing, supporting, or some kind of hybrid. In reality, most of them suck and aren't worth the time to play once you've used any of the well synergized sets.
Oh, and my main has been munitions since i started playing in october '09.
Youch Sanguine, bombarding his positions with OORT cloud objects is just mean!
I personally am giving up on Dual Pistols munitions just like archery at this point.
Its just not worth the effort to make these builds competative with EASY MODE frameworks.
Youch Sanguine, bombarding his positions with OORT cloud objects is just mean!
I personally am giving up on Dual Pistols munitions just like archery at this point.
Its just not worth the effort to make these builds competative with EASY MODE frameworks.
Don't you are someone of these people that always want it "harder" ? So why don't you play the not so easy
frameworks then ?
Yep, and we already have a fix for that.
I won't settle until you guys have a solid PTS build for the rest of the weekend, so i'll be requesting a final update in roughly an hour to fix the tooltips.
Also:
Celestial:Iniquity: This power should no longer be dodgable.
So, um. Any possibility of still getting the update pushed to PTS, or did this fall through until further notice? Would be nice to know if ETA is still today, or next week. :cool:
Who R3s a tier 1 power? And IIRC Enrage gives you something like 8% per stack if you don't SS STR. So first you say you want the extra damage, and now you say it doesn't matter. Well which is it?
You're clearly out of touch with the entire game and haven't actually played it in a long time, so i see no further point in trying to enlighten you. Especially since you always make your same pretentious "I'm a thematic guy so I'm right and everyone else is wrong." argument every time you post like this even though most of us agree about these things.
I personally am giving up on Dual Pistols munitions just like archery at this point.
Its just not worth the effort to make these builds competative with EASY MODE frameworks.
I guess i mine as well too, with AR now actually being in the ball-park of PBR I guess I'll just stick with that.
Maybe one day, years from now, munitions will get a pass, and be split into two trees, Gun Kata for pistols and Munitions for the other stuff like it should have been from the start instead of just having a dozen attacks mashed into the same powerset with almost no utility.
I can understand the comparison between two gun mojo and TK assault as both are T0 powers. But, why Lightning Arc, a T1 power?
Cause apparently T0 and T1 are just vague labels that don't mean anything at all. If you look at my damage chart in my older post, you can see that. Assault rifle is also a T1 power, yet the only thing it does more damage than is TGMJ... It also has zero unique utility (absolutely no one uses it for the "tap effect" that supposedly makes it unique) and it snares you when maintained to boot. Why DOES arc root you? Really, is the 100 more dps than assault rifle equivalent to being rooted? If so, then why don't TK assault or PBR root or snare you? They do more damage than all of them. So i don't even know, you tell me.
You're clearly out of touch with the entire game and haven't actually played it in a long time, so i see no further point in trying to enlighten you. Especially since you always make your same pretentious "I'm a thematic guy so I'm right and everyone else is wrong." argument every time you post like this even though most of us agree about these things..
So wait, I'm out of touch because I don't see the point in using 8 advantage points to R3 your tier 0/1 powers?
And if you didn't care about theme and were only interesting in building the most powerful character possible, why would you care if TGMJ does less base damage than TK Assault? You wouldn't. You'd just take TK Assault. And you STILL haven't answered my question. I don't seek nor require enlightenment, just an answer to my very simple question.
1. TGM is a damage power. TKA is a damage power. Similar functionality, but one is crappier than the other in every conceivable way, and it sucks for concept builders who can't take TKA even though it's vastly superior.
2. You say there's more to a power's effectiveness than just base damage. Tell me, then: What effectiveness does TGM have? TKA functions better as a tanking power (better attack range for Crippling Challenge) and a damage power.
You're clearly out of touch with the entire game and haven't actually played it in a long time, so i see no further point in trying to enlighten you. Especially since you always make your same pretentious "I'm a thematic guy so I'm right and everyone else is wrong." argument every time you post like this even though most of us agree about these things.
I am tired and agree with this because normal logic does not seem to be working here.
And yet again I ask: WHY does every power need to be point by point equivalent to every other power?
Because like i said before, every set is just a variation of tank, ranged DPS, Melee DPS, or support in this game. None of them should clearly out-perform each other by DPS, HPS, or survivability margins as great as they currently do.
They don't need to be EXACTLY THE SAME, they need to be IN THE SAME BALLPARK. And a variance of over 1000dps and a double range advantage is NOT in the same ballpark when you're comparing similar powers of the same tier in similarly synergized sets.
On top of that, it's a superhero MMO, I want to feel like a superhero, just because i use dual pistols doesn't mean i shouldn't be able to be comparable to the other superheroes, even superman can be killed with guns, all you need to do is forge some kryptonite bullets.
Person A wants to be a dual wielding awesomeguy.
Person B wants to be a ranged telekinetic.
Person B COMPLETELY outdoes Person A despite having a pretty similar build.
2GM = TK Assault.
HOLDOUT SHOT = TK Lance.
Bullet Beatdown = TK Maelstrom (or whatever a ranged TK wants to use to get Leech fast)
Lead Tempest = TK Maelstrom again (Unreliable AoE or reliable AoE that stuns everything around you and lets you get your next big hit off.)
Person A should at least be competitive with Person B.
I was able to reduce the cooldown of the following powers to incredibly low numbers:
Masterful Dodge: 14 seconds
Lock 'n' Load: 16 seconds
Conviction: .82 seconds
Bountiful Chi Resurgence: 3 seconds (Stacked it 7 times)
Evasive Maneuvers: 2-3 seconds (can't remember off the top of my head, but low enough to stack it 3 times)
I don't remember what specializations picks I was using, and can't check since I crash every time I try to log in (:(), but I do remember that I was INT Primary, Brawler, and Protector. The numbers above were achieved with ~230-ish Intelligence, and no cooldown reduction gear.
Expanding on this a bit, now that I've been able to collect more info.
The issue lies with Quarry, more specifically, Audacity, and the way it interacts with the INT Primary spec 'Enlightened.' If you build Audacity and let the stacks go away, you lose the stat points, but the bonuses stay. And they stack. That's why the recharge rate and power cost was able to go so absurdly low without impacting my damage (since the superstat bonus didn't remain high, since the superstat itself didn't). This bug only seems to extend to Audacity's +stat bonuses, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that other powers that do similar things, like Palliate's +PRE, acts similarly. I'm attaching a link to an imgur album, where I've screenshotted the tooltips and my character pages. The numbers on them are so high do the INT Primary spec that increases the benefits of your non-superstats.
It's important to note that, by the time I've gotten to the numbers in the second through the last screenshot (the first was to show that it was possible to stack things like BCR a lot), everything has broken, just about. I no longer recovery health out of combat, I cannot build energy, none of my buffs (IDF, FotT, Travel Powers, etc.) work, and I can't heal. Just before I reached that point, buffs were taking more time than usual to apply. I had to maintain Gauntlet Chainsaw about halfway before I reached a stack of Quarry.
The issue disappears once you change instances. I have not been able to determine if it persists through death. The former is an issue since it's possible to break yourself to the point of uselessness in long lairs like Therakiel's Temple. If it persists through death, the latter is an issue mainly in PvP matches, where the same is also possible (If you haven't wrecked the other team before you reach that point, since you're unkillable once you reach a certain point).
Cause apparently T0 and T1 are just vague labels that don't mean anything at all. If you look at my damage chart in my older post, you can see that. Assault rifle is also a T1 power, yet the only thing it does more damage than is TGMJ... It also has zero unique utility (absolutely no one uses it for the "tap effect" that supposedly makes it unique) and it snares you when maintained to boot. Why DOES arc root you? Really, is the 100 more dps than assault rifle equivalent to being rooted? If so, then why don't TK assault or PBR root or snare you? They do more damage than all of them. So i don't even know, you tell me.
I see. Though I would have to agree that TGM needs to be buffed.
1. TGM is a damage power. TKA is a damage power. Similar functionality, but one is crappier than the other in every conceivable way, and it sucks for concept builders who can't take TKA even though it's vastly superior.
2. You say there's more to a power's effectiveness than just base damage. Tell me, then: What effectiveness does TGM have? TKA functions better as a tanking power (better attack range for Crippling Challenge) and a damage power.
I am tired and agree with this because normal logic does not seem to be working here.
Hmm, I dunno. Enrage. Nailed to the Ground. Shorter maintain cycle. Half the energy cost on a full maintain. Higher average DPE. Greater compatibility with out-of-framework passives and buffs.
So basically the answer to my question of why powers have to be stat-point equivalent is "because I want them to be". Understood.
Hmm, I dunno. Enrage. Nailed to the Ground. Shorter maintain cycle. Half the energy cost on a full maintain. Higher average DPE. Greater compatibility with out-of-framework passives and buffs.
Nailed to the Ground, okay. Energy costs and damage per energy are questionable because of Ego Leech stacks helping TK Assault with all of these things. Enrage is a definite no since TK Assault gets even more mileage out of Enrage with its toggle passive. I don't see what functionality there is in a shorter maintain cycle.
Person A should at least be competitive with Person B.
Outside of PvP why does person A need to be "competitive" with person B? If both can adequately traverse content, what does it matter? Why would you care if person B is doing more damage than you so long as you are having fun? I run across people all the time that do stupidly high amounts of damage compared to my 2 Brick toons and PA toon. But that doesn't mean I think any of them are broken (well, PA is a bit dented, but not broken).
If all frameworks performed exactly the same way with all the individual powers having the same amount of damage and costing the same amount of energy do you really think that would be better? I don't. I think it would be horribly boring.
Hmm, I dunno. Enrage. Nailed to the Ground. Shorter maintain cycle. Half the energy cost on a full maintain. Higher average DPE. Greater compatibility with out-of-framework passives and buffs.
So basically the answer to my question of why powers have to be stat-point equivalent is "because I want them to be". Understood.
Wait? Shorter maintain cycle? How is a 4 sec maintain cycle shorter than a 4 sec maintain cycle? Or have you forgotten they increased the maintain cycle for TGM? Greater compatibility with out-of-framework passives? You mean...Targetting Computer and Kinetic Manipulation? The ONLY two passives that increase TGM's damage? Oh, right, Munitions does not even have its OWN passive. The only advantage that TGM has over TKA is a very SMALL difference in energy cost, not half the energy cost. Enrage is balanced by Ego Leech. Nailed to the Ground is useful in pvp and thats it. And requires you to spend AP, thus reducing its overall power. Hell, with the toon I'm on right now, the energy cost of TGM is 8.9 initial and 6.9 per 0.5 sec. While TKA is 7.4 initial and 7.4 per 0.5 sec. 4 secs each, so, eight ticks each for the energy cost. 6.9 x 8 = 55.2 + 8.9 = 64.1 Energy total for TGM. While 7.4 x 8 = 59.2 + 7.4 = 66.6 Energy total of TKA. 64.1 is not half of 66.6.
66.6 energy doing 2400 vs 64.1 energy doing 1500...yeah...so balanced.
Do the spec trees for the roles work regardless of what role you are in?
They seem to do that but I am not sure. As for feedback, I like the trees
however, I don't want a tool tip I want a menu that says what it does
like the power's menu.
Comments
A flavor of wristw@tch ?
When RAD sphere is active, weapon geos no longer appear in your hands when using relevant powers.
Please try to fix this, it makes both my characters with RAD pretty disappointing to play since they're munitions and claws/blades respectively and have been wandering around with invisible weapons for over a month now...
This is on a regen build - I think I had Recovery, Protector and sentry, regen passive.
I am all for it - as long as only I can use it, of course. Hmm.
By the way - excellent work here. It looks hormingulous to balance - but a good lot of fun. This whole new build has totally reinvigorated my interest in the game - even pushing me into PvP on live.
Good work sirs, Good luck on the balancing though.
Otterman
Thanks for the insight I may I missed all that.
Hope the fusing and modifying systems work soon
I see the chance from positive way.
54 % dodge chance plus 75+% avoidance means 40% mitigattion. And with some defence, LR tanks actually enjoy about 50% or even higher mitigation (in average). In PvE, LR tanks have better effect from BCR + RR. They also seem to get better effective from "increase gain defence from gears". In PvP, it seems that LR tanks suffer less influence from armor pentration.
I persaonlly want them to make dodge have more significant weakness -- dodge become 0 when be paralyzed or avoidance suffer geart reduction when be snared or rooted. Ofc the tradeoff is that you may completely dodge CC effects or sharply reduce CC strength if you dodge successfully.
I think current changes to dodge are overall good - the biggest change is actually not so much into dodge, but rather in it's interaction with charged attacks. It's no longer automatic mitigation to charge attacks, which is a good thing.
What you propose though, is principally same as 'lets make it so that 0.1% of all attacks cause you to suffer 20,000 points of unavoidable damage'. It would mean that anyone relying on dodge as a defense, will be almost automatically killed by taking a hit from paralyze. This would mean the only viable way to use dodge, would be as a secondary mitigation on top of defiance/invulnerability. Currently dodge works to mitigate overall damage, even if randomly, and as long as you can block during bigger nukes, you should be fine with it.
Is it viable as the only defense for primary tank? I don't know. Even as it is now it might be too unpredictable, because eventually you will end up held, knocked, or otherwise unable to block during a big spike.. and if your luck runs out, you might not survive it. You can counter holds with active defense, but it may be that nothing will save you from knock chained with a spike that happens to go through your dodge.
Yup, the heal is added functionality to the Sigils, not a replacement. Important to note, however, that the build picked up the percentage based healing I was experimenting with and it will not have that for launch (it will have regular healing).
I'm also very curious how the new Sigils (and new Circle) perform in solo and group settings.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo leave it as is! It's a great supplemental heal as is and great for creating a temporary safe zone / fall back zone. Unless I guess you plan to leave rank 3 at 75 hp or so per sigil but still percent heals are so much nicer.
Also any chance you can get the alerts base level nudged to 40, always confuses the hell out of me when I'm suddenly 10 levels weaker and I go around thinking I forgot to equip something.
Thanks for the detailed report! Should be all fixed up now.
To you guys that are more familiar with munitions, is Two gun mojo on par with TK assault or lightning arc?
Just did a quick check with no passives, no specialization points, and leftover level 26 gear that I was too lazy to remove in Guardian. Intelligence superstatted too, for what it's worth.
Two Gun Mojo R1: 225 per 0.5, 11 initial energy, 8.6 maintain.
TK Assault R1: 148-328 per 0.5, (238 average?), 9.2 energy.
Lightning Arc R1: 181-401 per 0.5 (291 average?), 12 energy.
It's definitely closer than it used to be, but it still doesn't come close to either of those powers in range or damage, and only beats LA in energy efficiency.
Hahahahaha... Hah... No.
Right now on pts using the same stats/gear, just changing to relevant passives for each:
*Went on and retested again, found out my spec tree had been messed up for some of the tests because of the randomly resetting of points, also, i dunno where pulse beam rifle being 2500 came from, possibly an older test with actives involved... So here, freshly parsed dps tests done at the same time with the same talents/specs/gear with the only variables being passives and the toggle for TK.*
Munitions done with Kinetic manipulation:
TGMJ hitting for around ~1500dps
Assault rifle: ~2000dps
Arc and PBR done with elec form:
Arc: ~2100dps
PBR: ~2200dps
TK with ego form+mental disc:
TK assault: ~2400dps
Why do you care that Two Gun Mojo isn't as "good" (whatever that means) as Lightning Arc? It just doesn't matter. Two different powers in two different sets that do two different kinds of damage and have two different kinds of synergies within their respective sets. It's an extremely narrow view of power design and leads to CoX-style powers that all do exactly the same DPS, EPS, and DPE; which is just DULL.
The powers in CO used to be much more diverse than they are know. Each powers pass seems to make things that much more alike instead of distinctive, and that's a shame.
Why should one power, of a given tier, be inherently less effective than another power of the same tier ?
Tell that to the guy i'm shooting with TGMJ in pvp that is taking negative damage from the power because he's mitigating it so low that the heals it's triggering on him are actually giving him HPS instead of causing DPS.
Or tell it to some PvE boss that's tearing you a new one while using tgmj and you can't get his health down fast enough. But then going up against the same boss you flatten him with TK assault in half the time.
This is the drawback of 'freeform' system. In 'class based' system (e.g. archetypes) you balance the wholes against eachother - and it doesn't matter if one power is weaker than another of same tier, if the other powers make up for it, and balance the whole. But when you can cherrypick the best powers across the frameworks into a custom build, you face a situation where you simply end up picking the best option from each tier, and a power that's comparatively weaker than others of the same tier, will be obsolated.
Synergies can help this somewhat, as can damage types - and passives that boost certain specific group of powers can also group the powers into sort of inherent 'class', but when all you really need is a couple of good attack powers, that just isn't enough. If PBR can always outperform 2-gun mojo in any given situation, then the only reason anyone would pick 2GM is for flavor reasons - and anyone doing so will get the short end.
It's a difficult issue, because as you say, the search for balance can easily lead to powers becoming essentially carbon copies of eachother, just with different visuals. But neither is it good if 90% of diverse powers fall into disuse simply because they aren't competitive in comparison to other options.
And that might be your problem right there; assuming that two powers that essentially do exactly the same thing (i.e. do damage*) are "completely" different powers. They're not. They're almost exactly the same thing, except with different animations.
*in a game where different damage types tend to have very little impact in the greater scheme of things, except perhaps to determine which offensive passive or energy unlock to choose.
Here is a thing, from the start of the thread. :P
Any news on the build that will be getting us back our spec tree tooltips btw?
Why should it be identical to another power in a completely different set that has different passives, mechanics, and synergies? I'm saying it doesn't matter. You say it should. Ok, why?
PvP will never have the kind of balance you expect it to have. Even if the damage of TGMJ was increased you'd still have the same problem. It's just one of those powers that's inherently not effective against Invulnerability, IDF, and/or BCR/RR/Dodge in PvP. That doesn't mean it's broken or needs to be fixed.
Again, this is an overly simplistic example. What about some PvE boss that's resistant to energy damage but not physical? Or what about that stack of Enrage you get that your Lightning toon doesn't have? Or the extra damage from Close the Gap? Or that your Munitions toon is likely to be DEX/EGO and benefits from crits that your END/REC Lightning toon doesn't have? Powers don't exist in a vacuum -- they have very well-defined synergies that allow them to behave in ways not necessarily apparent if you just look at base stats.
Ahah. There we go. Still looking strong on my end even without these, at least.
We have enemies like that in this game? And if so, how many?
That stack of enrage on its own is meaningless, and requires a full maintain.
Not enough to make a difference compared to other powers. Plus that's an advantage that has to be purchaced, just like other powers have advantages (that also have to be purchased) of their own. And improving two gun mojo will not break these distinctive features.
We are free to select which stats we focus on in this game, and even then that's besides the point, because improving the effectiveness of two gun wont change that.
Two-gun mojo is weaker than just about every other power of its class--period. Improving its effectiveness will not break any of its synergies or that of other powers. It would merely make it more likely for people to actually pick it and enjoy those synergies.
EDIT: In closing, yes, we know certain sets have their own synergies and such, the difference is that for sets other than munitions, they have their synergies and they have their effective powers as well. Munitions? That one mostly has its synergies.
Saw this one when I was fighting Le Blanc, or whatever the giant crocodile guy in the open mission Crocodile Rock is called.
I would like to see PVE bosses that take advantage of Physical vs. Energy vs. Paranormal defense. If they're not using a defensive passive of any sort, though, then it's not really going to mean anything.
One stack of Enrage on a Dex/Ego character means nothing. Hell, eight stacks probably wouldn't mean much to them if they're not statting Strength. Even with crits and Close the Gap, the damage on TGM is still going to be inferior from melee range (if you REALLY want to use Close the Gap) compared to Lightning Arc from close and long-range.
Stuff that procs the Munitions Energy Unlock: Munitions powers that can't be used simultaneously (except for maybe Mini Mines but that's Mini Mines)
Stuff that procs the Electricity Energy Unlock: Nearly everything. In melee range, Sparkstorm. Whenever you feel like it, Ball Lightning.
Really, the only thing TGM has over Lightning Arc is the fact that it doesn't self-root. Then... There's TK Assault. This also has a similar energy unlock, but with the added synergy of a toggle passive that buffs damage, crit rates, and reduces energy costs.
The only situation I can think of where Two Gun Mojo MIGHT have an advantage over either of those powers is if you're using Kinetic Mastery to test all three powers. Even then, I wouldn't be surprised if it still fell short.
Except i can tear those people to shreds with TK assault, which is the same power as TGMJ with a different animation which apparently causes it to deal about 1000 more dps and 50ft. more range.
Where? What boss? I've never seen any boss in the game that had enough defense against a specific damage type to make any difference in the overall fight.
Oh yes, i forgot about the grand +1.3% damage i get from that one stack of enrage!
Close the gap causes the power to deal less damage than taking rank 3 as the 30% maximum bonus from it is not a base damage increase but a diminishing return increase.
I did my tests on the same toon, same gear, same specs, same talents. Like i said, all i did was switch passives and the powers themselves. All of them are easily maintained to fullest potential on an ego dex/int build now.
Personally, I have 18 level 40 characters, each of them based around a different set, 14 of those characters are almost never played, as I just feel pathetically bad or so overpowered they aren't even enjoyable to play. That's what this is about, all the sets should be able to perform to the same standards in whatever field they're good at, whether that be tanking, dpsing, supporting, or some kind of hybrid. In reality, most of them suck and aren't worth the time to play once you've used any of the well synergized sets.
Oh, and my main has been munitions since i started playing in october '09.
I haven't tried the sigils, but the circle unfortunately suffers from one basic flaw. Often your death is preceded by a massive knock (or several), flying through the air, taking massive and unavoidable fall damage, then being executed before you have an opportunity to so much as put up your block - let only that you'd get a chance to call the circle to you (or move over to the circle yourself). This still makes it unreliable as a means of getting yourself back up to fight - compared to say, rebirth.. or just keeping a bottle of zombie powder with you.
The heal component just isn't strong enough in solo play to be worth wasting your time to reposition the circle. I haven't had a chance to test it in group play, but usually when you really need the healing, people are too wide spread to be caught with point blank heal, and one little tic of healing isn't going to do much good.
I think the circle would work better if it revived you regardless of your current distance to the circle - as long as the circle still exists (it didn't have time to fade out). That way it could bring you back after knock-pull-knock-squich.. but would still require you to maintain it by either standing in (most of the time), or periodically calling it over to you. It could still revive you into center of the circle, to make it's position 'focal point'.
This way it's primary function would be much more reliable, and it wouldn't matter that much if the healing component isn't comparable to true heals - it would still be a fine bonus.
Since bosses will be getting resistances this might just happen.
So you want it to have more damage, but when I point out it can already do something like 63% more damage than listed it's not enough. Got it.
How exactly does that make TGMJ worse than Lightning Arc? Both can easily proc their respective unlocks.
So then Lightning Arc is horribly broken and needs to be fixed because it's clearly sub-par compared to TK Assault, right?
And that's my point. Why must it have an advantage? Fell short of what? Is there some mythical performance bar that all powers are required to meet and/or exceed?
Maybe cause it's NOT the same power and doesn't work the same way as TK Assault? Cause if it did it would do the same amount of damage in the same situations. Or you can just take TK Assault if TGMJ isn't to your liking. Isn't that the point of a freeform system?
You made a ridiculous hypothetical. I countered with an equally silly hypothetical -- but at least mine has the potential to happen, whereas yours simply doesn't.
Who R3s a tier 0/1 power? And IIRC Enrage gives you something like 8% per stack if you don't SS STR. So first you say you want the extra damage, and now you say it doesn't matter. Well which is it?
So then you're basically cherry-picking and/or not taking full advantage of the various mechanics available in each framework. Either way your methodology is flawed.
And thru all this ridiculousness you still haven't told me why TGMJ needs to be exactly like Lightning Arc or TK Assault. There is more to a power's effectiveness than just its base damage.
Sorry, but this is simply more nonsense. Most sets suck? Are we playing the same game? Just because a set is not to your particular liking doesn't mean it sucks. It just means it's not for you. I don't care for Sorcery -- it's just not my cup of tea, and not what I personally would like to see in a sorcery set (and my second oldest character is Sorcery, go figure). But that doesn't mean it sucks. Cause then you're basically saying that everyone who plays Sorcery or Munitions, or one of the other 12 sets you despise is a sucker. And that's simply not true. If Munitions sucks as hard as you claim it does (and it doesn't), then it needs much more help than simply buffing TGMJ.
And yet again I ask: WHY does every power need to be point by point equivalent to every other power?
Youch Sanguine, bombarding his positions with OORT cloud objects is just mean!
I personally am giving up on Dual Pistols munitions just like archery at this point.
Its just not worth the effort to make these builds competative with EASY MODE frameworks.
Don't you are someone of these people that always want it "harder" ? So why don't you play the not so easy
frameworks then ?
So, um. Any possibility of still getting the update pushed to PTS, or did this fall through until further notice? Would be nice to know if ETA is still today, or next week. :cool:
You're clearly out of touch with the entire game and haven't actually played it in a long time, so i see no further point in trying to enlighten you. Especially since you always make your same pretentious "I'm a thematic guy so I'm right and everyone else is wrong." argument every time you post like this even though most of us agree about these things.
I guess i mine as well too, with AR now actually being in the ball-park of PBR I guess I'll just stick with that.
Maybe one day, years from now, munitions will get a pass, and be split into two trees, Gun Kata for pistols and Munitions for the other stuff like it should have been from the start instead of just having a dozen attacks mashed into the same powerset with almost no utility.
Cause apparently T0 and T1 are just vague labels that don't mean anything at all. If you look at my damage chart in my older post, you can see that. Assault rifle is also a T1 power, yet the only thing it does more damage than is TGMJ... It also has zero unique utility (absolutely no one uses it for the "tap effect" that supposedly makes it unique) and it snares you when maintained to boot. Why DOES arc root you? Really, is the 100 more dps than assault rifle equivalent to being rooted? If so, then why don't TK assault or PBR root or snare you? They do more damage than all of them. So i don't even know, you tell me.
So wait, I'm out of touch because I don't see the point in using 8 advantage points to R3 your tier 0/1 powers?
And if you didn't care about theme and were only interesting in building the most powerful character possible, why would you care if TGMJ does less base damage than TK Assault? You wouldn't. You'd just take TK Assault. And you STILL haven't answered my question. I don't seek nor require enlightenment, just an answer to my very simple question.
1. TGM is a damage power. TKA is a damage power. Similar functionality, but one is crappier than the other in every conceivable way, and it sucks for concept builders who can't take TKA even though it's vastly superior.
2. You say there's more to a power's effectiveness than just base damage. Tell me, then: What effectiveness does TGM have? TKA functions better as a tanking power (better attack range for Crippling Challenge) and a damage power.
I am tired and agree with this because normal logic does not seem to be working here.
You... Don't see the point in ranking up some of the highest DPS powers in the game for their respective ranged DPS based sets? Hello?
Because like i said before, every set is just a variation of tank, ranged DPS, Melee DPS, or support in this game. None of them should clearly out-perform each other by DPS, HPS, or survivability margins as great as they currently do.
They don't need to be EXACTLY THE SAME, they need to be IN THE SAME BALLPARK. And a variance of over 1000dps and a double range advantage is NOT in the same ballpark when you're comparing similar powers of the same tier in similarly synergized sets.
On top of that, it's a superhero MMO, I want to feel like a superhero, just because i use dual pistols doesn't mean i shouldn't be able to be comparable to the other superheroes, even superman can be killed with guns, all you need to do is forge some kryptonite bullets.
Person B wants to be a ranged telekinetic.
Person B COMPLETELY outdoes Person A despite having a pretty similar build.
2GM = TK Assault.
HOLDOUT SHOT = TK Lance.
Bullet Beatdown = TK Maelstrom (or whatever a ranged TK wants to use to get Leech fast)
Lead Tempest = TK Maelstrom again (Unreliable AoE or reliable AoE that stuns everything around you and lets you get your next big hit off.)
Person A should at least be competitive with Person B.
We're getting there, though...
A bug at the moment. Hopefully, it'll be fixed so we can go nuts with these things.
Expanding on this a bit, now that I've been able to collect more info.
The issue lies with Quarry, more specifically, Audacity, and the way it interacts with the INT Primary spec 'Enlightened.' If you build Audacity and let the stacks go away, you lose the stat points, but the bonuses stay. And they stack. That's why the recharge rate and power cost was able to go so absurdly low without impacting my damage (since the superstat bonus didn't remain high, since the superstat itself didn't). This bug only seems to extend to Audacity's +stat bonuses, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that other powers that do similar things, like Palliate's +PRE, acts similarly. I'm attaching a link to an imgur album, where I've screenshotted the tooltips and my character pages. The numbers on them are so high do the INT Primary spec that increases the benefits of your non-superstats.
http://imgur.com/a/nc8j3#7
It's important to note that, by the time I've gotten to the numbers in the second through the last screenshot (the first was to show that it was possible to stack things like BCR a lot), everything has broken, just about. I no longer recovery health out of combat, I cannot build energy, none of my buffs (IDF, FotT, Travel Powers, etc.) work, and I can't heal. Just before I reached that point, buffs were taking more time than usual to apply. I had to maintain Gauntlet Chainsaw about halfway before I reached a stack of Quarry.
The issue disappears once you change instances. I have not been able to determine if it persists through death. The former is an issue since it's possible to break yourself to the point of uselessness in long lairs like Therakiel's Temple. If it persists through death, the latter is an issue mainly in PvP matches, where the same is also possible (If you haven't wrecked the other team before you reach that point, since you're unkillable once you reach a certain point).
EDIT: Heals from others also do not work.
Edited again with more info.
I see. Though I would have to agree that TGM needs to be buffed.
Hmm, I dunno. Enrage. Nailed to the Ground. Shorter maintain cycle. Half the energy cost on a full maintain. Higher average DPE. Greater compatibility with out-of-framework passives and buffs.
So basically the answer to my question of why powers have to be stat-point equivalent is "because I want them to be". Understood.
So completely misinterpreting everything makes my points sound more valid. Understood.
Outside of PvP why does person A need to be "competitive" with person B? If both can adequately traverse content, what does it matter? Why would you care if person B is doing more damage than you so long as you are having fun? I run across people all the time that do stupidly high amounts of damage compared to my 2 Brick toons and PA toon. But that doesn't mean I think any of them are broken (well, PA is a bit dented, but not broken).
If all frameworks performed exactly the same way with all the individual powers having the same amount of damage and costing the same amount of energy do you really think that would be better? I don't. I think it would be horribly boring.
Wait? Shorter maintain cycle? How is a 4 sec maintain cycle shorter than a 4 sec maintain cycle? Or have you forgotten they increased the maintain cycle for TGM? Greater compatibility with out-of-framework passives? You mean...Targetting Computer and Kinetic Manipulation? The ONLY two passives that increase TGM's damage? Oh, right, Munitions does not even have its OWN passive. The only advantage that TGM has over TKA is a very SMALL difference in energy cost, not half the energy cost. Enrage is balanced by Ego Leech. Nailed to the Ground is useful in pvp and thats it. And requires you to spend AP, thus reducing its overall power. Hell, with the toon I'm on right now, the energy cost of TGM is 8.9 initial and 6.9 per 0.5 sec. While TKA is 7.4 initial and 7.4 per 0.5 sec. 4 secs each, so, eight ticks each for the energy cost. 6.9 x 8 = 55.2 + 8.9 = 64.1 Energy total for TGM. While 7.4 x 8 = 59.2 + 7.4 = 66.6 Energy total of TKA. 64.1 is not half of 66.6.
66.6 energy doing 2400 vs 64.1 energy doing 1500...yeah...so balanced.
They seem to do that but I am not sure. As for feedback, I like the trees
however, I don't want a tool tip I want a menu that says what it does
like the power's menu.
Yes, they work regardless of role.