But isn't that Hybrid now ? It buffs both just not that much as the specialized ranged or melee role.
Since avenger now has lost the penalities guardian has to be seen more as a third damage role when played
with an offense passive i think.
If Brawler and Avenger are merged then we could also get rid of guardian, since its only purpose is then
maybe for defense passive users to make more damage, but for offense passives there is no need anymore
to use it since they don't have the negative effects anymore.
Don't forget what Falchoin also said.
Any player using an offensive passive in Hybrid playing along with melee and ranged damage spec'd teamates is effectively committing suicide as they become the defacto tank without taking ANY taunting advantages.
I understand this is the first pass on the whole stat thing and some interesting things have been happening just with an hour or so worth of playing with them. i'm "assuming" that stacking a secondary stat on top of a primary stat is not suppose to be possible. If you do allow this then reaching 250-300 can be achieved easily leaving room in your gear to get 2 additional stats above 250 too easily.
I believe secondary stats are being weighed the same when calculating the total bonuses for a character. Playing with Personal Force Field before with max stats i could only get about a 6,000 hp shield on top of my normal HP. Now i can get almost 9,000. Which is awesome in itself but any buffs/adjustments to PFF I feel should be considered separately. (As a side note i feel like PFF could benefit more from bonus regen on attacking similar to how regeneration has bonuses healing on attacking rather than raw shield HP.) Back on topic though i will be testing how stats effect other passives once i get off work. I'm concerned that some numbers for passives could get out of control when the game has become too easy for certain builds already.
One of my favorite builds right now on live is a dex/ego toon that uses ego blades. With the change to ego effecting ranged damage and the removal of crit severity i feel like ego blades has been hit severely all around. To maximize damage you had to focus on your ego stat but now it seems counter productive for an ego blader (melee) as you're losing your crit severity as well as damage bonuses that are meant for a different kind of power to begin with. I do believe the ranged ego powers would benifit more from this change but as of now ego blades seems to be getting the short end of the deal.
A possible solution for the ego stat for ego blades would be to base the scaling bonus damage with other melee types such as dex or str. This way you wouldn't have to waste investments in the ego stat that you seem to only get half the benefit from now.
I've only been through about half the pages of comments but i've heard from other friends in game that there is talk about removing the role restrictions for passives. This... this sounds incredibly interesting as i've always thought about having certain passives in other roles, with them being less effective in other roles than what they were designed for of course but it would allow for some concepts to be made that i would love to have.
Color changes to skin color when changing costum colors
In costume editor, doesn't matter where in game world you do it.
Under Skin and Tights -> Chest and Arms section, if you lock the skin color and then try to alter a color that is linked to the chest and arms area of your costume (fourth color slot), it also forces the game client to change the skin color. This also happens if the skin color is unlocked as well. What is also odd is that you can shuffle the colors without any problems relating to the skin color.
Same anomaly occurs in Head & Hairs -> Head Type with the fourth color slot, same sort of reaction as above.
UI pop-up that warns players that they will be kicked from instanced map.
Not only does this pop-up show up, it also kicks you from ANY mission where it is displayed. This is evident when I attempted to play Resistance as it constantly booted me from the area regardless of what I was doing. Though, I was playing solo, so that might have had something to do with it. Anyone else having this sort of problem?
...Not only does this pop-up show up, it also kicks you from ANY mission where it is displayed. This is evident when I attempted to play Resistance as it constantly booted me from the area regardless of what I was doing. Though, I was playing solo, so that might have had something to do with it. Anyone else having this sort of problem?
Whether I'm solo or in a team I get the same problem. If you adjust your settings to always allow map choice you can at least click cancel when it brings up the box.
Seems like Ego has been turned into a ranged stat. I main a character with ego blade and I know there were changes made so that it scales as strength does (max. adv. at 70)
So in other words, if I leave it at 70, I'll get the most beneficial bonus to my ego attack?
In my testing, I see 70 gives about +20% damage. 200 gives +30% damage. There's diminishing returns in those additional 130 points,but it gives something.
Why is it fair to offer melee/ranged hybridization to a ranged power in a melee set, while not offering Ranged/Melee hybridizaiton to the melee powers in the ranged technology sets?
The powers I speak of are:
Muntions--Bullet Beatdown (Ballet)
Gagettering--Chainsaw Guantlet.
Power Armor--Laser Sword.
These powers are the heavy hitters from their respective trees. On live these powers can be used to prop up the weak performing technology tree builds.
Just like you want to offer incentive to Martial Arts players to use Shuriken powers, offer that same incentive to the Technology trees to use their melee attacks.
Consider it.
I agree, putting those on ego OR strength would be a solid move.
Melee needs the snare.. that's why brawler was made in the first place so that melee didn't play the chase game only to never get hit.
Solutions arn't short sighted. Numbers and gameplay are very different beasts. Numbers say "merge them" but gameplay says... Range>Melee in said merging
Lunges are 3s cooldowns (2ish with SS INT) that always apply a snare and often apply some variety of additional CC. The additional snare seems excessive.
Could always either roll the snare into most melee powers (probably too much work), or have some variety of "smart" detection. Actually, I think that's already in place, no? If you're in Brawler and use Lightning Arc, no snare is applied. If you turn around and use Dragon Claws, the snare applies.
So, you wouldn't even have to dump the snare. The game is already clearly capable of distinguishing which attack it should use the Snare with. It's purely about the damage bonus. With the two roles being near-identical now, they might as well be merged instead of continuing to kick hybridization in the nerts.
Lunges are 3s cooldowns (2ish with SS INT) that always apply a snare and often apply some variety of additional CC. The additional snare seems excessive.
Could always either roll the snare into most melee powers (probably too much work), or have some variety of "smart" detection. Actually, I think that's already in place, no? If you're in Brawler and use Lightning Arc, no snare is applied. If you turn around and use Dragon Claws, the snare applies.
So, you wouldn't even have to dump the snare. The game is already clearly capable of distinguishing which attack it should use the Snare with. It's purely about the damage bonus. With the two roles being near-identical now, they might as well be merged instead of continuing to kick hybridization in the nerts.
If anything Melee should be getting more damage benefits than it is now, and the 2x snare is needed because one snare usually just isnt enough. Also if you read the brawler description, the snare only applies to single target melee, hence why Dragons Claw snares in brawler. My question to you all, if i could hit my opponent for a 3k tap dmg at 10' and do the same thing at 100' which would you prefer?
Using the Team Up feature in open mission areas does not put you in a team such that auras affect your teammate. Additionally, the F2-F5 keys do not work to select teammates.
Activating a flight power (or mystic flight CTP device) if swinging was active before will sometimes cause your character to use their zip line from swinging when you press the jump key.
Traffic jam in MC outside of Destroids Rise Again.
The un-killed destroids that normally spawn with the retribution devices do not despawn on open mission completion or reset.
Orbital Cannon w/ Anvil of Dawn adv does not deal continuous damage after the initial blast.
Non-melee PBAoE's such as Pyre, Sparkstorm, Force Eruption, TK Eruption, TK Maelstrom, Ego Storm, Pillar of Poz and Epidemic do not benefit from the new EGO ranged damage boost yet are buffed by the Ranged Damage Role. Hurricane is an exception in that it's buffed by the ranged damage role and benefits from the new EGO ranged damage boost.
Tank Role (LR + 8 Focus stacks):
Dragon's Wrath - 3061
Thanks Kali. d('-' ) And to Radia as well for those numbers. I wasn't certain if the roles still carried over their original bonuses in addition to the new superstat modifiers.
Primary Super Stats no longer always provide the same benefit (for example, +30% Damage). The benefit they provide now changes with the role you are in. Secondary Super Stats work similarly, but have slightly different ratios for some roles/stats. The new benefits are (based on an old value of +30% damage):
Hybrid: All Damage +30%, Healing +15%. Secondary Stats provide three-quarters these values.
Forgot to mention this earlier but this has to be wrong, either here or on the PTS listing and in use. There are no actual benefits to using Hybrid other than base stats for your character.
Bug
Powers: Celestial
Skill: Ascension w/ Adv. "Judgement"
Upon Activating Ascension, Judgement does not apply currently. No stacks of Illumination are removed from either hostile or friendly targets, and no effect of damage or healing takes place. Judgement is completely non-functional
Suggestion:
Powers
Skill: Aura of Primal Majesty
After testing this out and seeing how it effects the new Secondary Super Stat system, I have determined that the problem with the Power is not how the Power works, but how the roles effect the power itself. As the Arcane Auras currently can only be used with Support or Hybrid, I suggest the following solution:
Make Aura of PM dictate its own bonuses (Damage, Healing, Threat) to Secondary Super Stats. As such, there would be a cap as to how much of a bonus this Passive could apply as the current Hybrid standard of 3/4ths bonus is too high, while the Sentinel 1/2 bonus feels closer to balanced. This would still allow for the use of Hybrid for its effects on the Primary Stat, without the secondaries causing the Passive to become overpowered. To me, atleast, they were the Stats that seemed the most effected by the passive.
However, I would leave the innate bonus for each stat alone, and concentrate only on the bonuses applied by roles.
Bug
Powers: Celestial
Skill: Ascension w/ Adv. "Judgement"
Upon Activating Ascension, Judgement does not apply currently. No stacks of Illumination are removed from either hostile or friendly targets, and no effect of damage or healing takes place. Judgement is completely non-functional
Suggestion:
Powers
Skill: Aura of Primal Majesty
After testing this out and seeing how it effects the new Secondary Super Stat system, I have determined that the problem with the Power is not how the Power works, but how the roles effect the power itself. As the Arcane Auras currently can only be used with Support or Hybrid, I suggest the following solution:
Make Aura of PM dictate its own bonuses (Damage, Healing, Threat) to Secondary Super Stats. As such, there would be a cap as to how much of a bonus this Passive could apply as the current Hybrid standard of 3/4ths bonus is too high, while the Sentinel 1/2 bonus feels closer to balanced. This would still allow for the use of Hybrid for its effects on the Primary Stat, without the secondaries causing the Passive to become overpowered. To me, atleast, they were the Stats that seemed the most effected by the passive.
However, I would leave the innate bonus for each stat alone, and concentrate only on the bonuses applied by roles.
Can you get a little more specific? Personally I had a feeling that AoPM would be little much with this system and letting it boost the secondaries by 25% more (or 50% depending on how you look at it) than an offensive role while retaining the same +30% boost to damage (for superstats) seems to be a bit much, even with the 5% bump to damage in offensive roles.
AoPM boosts the secondary stats higher by a considerable amount, and Hybrid allows said higher secondary stats to perform at 3/4s vs 1/2 of an offensive role, and after seeing AoPM in Guardian nearly match Kin Manip/Fiery Form in Avenger for damage while massively boosting all of Int's properties, well that 5% doesn't sound impressive to me, but I haven't had the time to mess with it.
For the record, I love it and want it to stay the way it is, but in reality it doesn't seem fair.
Can you get a little more specific? Personally I had a feeling that AoPM would be little much with this system and letting it boost the secondaries by 25% more (or 50% depending on how you look at it) than an offensive role while retaining the same +30% boost to damage (for superstats) seems to be a bit much, even with the 5% bump to damage in offensive roles.
AoPM boosts the secondary stats higher by a considerable amount, and Hybrid allows said higher secondary stats to perform at 3/4s vs 1/2 of an offensive role, and after seeing AoPM in Guardian nearly match Kin Manip/Fiery Form in Avenger for damage while massively boosting all of Int's properties, well that 5% doesn't sound impressive to me, but I haven't had the time to mess with it.
For the record, I love it and want it to stay the way it is, but in reality it doesn't seem fair.
Where did you see this?
I refer to Falchoins numbers in this thread, that contradict your statement.
And I trust Falchoin's figures without question.
NOTE: I also think AoPM needs a heavy reduction in effectiveness, but the facts don't support what I underlined in your comment.
last time i tried it was 130 with hybrid and that turned into about 200 with support so i'd say either: nerf it down to recieve the old bonus, or make it so role specific passives like this one either get balanced(offensive passives will get the same bonus to the passive like support passives do). there's also the option to reduce the bonus down to hybrid levels(130).
just my 2 cents on it.
Can you get a little more specific? Personally I had a feeling that AoPM would be little much with this system and letting it boost the secondaries by 25% more (or 50% depending on how you look at it) than an offensive role while retaining the same +30% boost to damage (for superstats) seems to be a bit much, even with the 5% bump to damage in offensive roles.
AoPM boosts the secondary stats higher by a considerable amount, and Hybrid allows said higher secondary stats to perform at 3/4s vs 1/2 of an offensive role, and after seeing AoPM in Guardian nearly match Kin Manip/Fiery Form in Avenger for damage while massively boosting all of Int's properties, well that 5% doesn't sound impressive to me, but I haven't had the time to mess with it.
For the record, I love it and want it to stay the way it is, but in reality it doesn't seem fair.
Lets just go with Rank 3 AoPM and write out what I think it should state:
(realize I'm using the Wiki's basic stats, so they don't take Gear into account in upping the stats of the Passive)
Aura of Primal Majesty
Rank 3
+42 to all Stats
+27 to all ally stats
Bonuses to Secondary Super Stats (Damage, Heath, Threat) from this Passive regulate the overall bonus of these stats to Half whatever the bonus is to the Primary Super Stat
The innate bonuses of these stats calculate as normal.
This does not apply to allies stats, only the user of the Aura.
I added that last bit because, lets face it, one person should not be able to delegate to the others how their Stats should give bonuses. I also wonder if something like this could be worked toward balancing out Quarry down the line. Granted, the Soft Cap on Ego will help from keeping it from getting too OP. In all honesty, Quarry isnt as bad as AoPM in terms of basic problems.
I refer to Falchoins numbers in this thread, that contradict your statement.
And I trust Falchoin's figures without question.
NOTE: I also think AoPM needs a heavy reduction in effectiveness, but the facts don't support what I underlined in your comment.
EDIT: removed the color from your post.
Currently on live, with Guardian and Avenger, and I too defer to Falchoin's numbers, but it's been my experience that AoPM can nearly match an offensive like Kin Manip in Avenger, if only because while not hitting the same spike (usually about 100-300 points lower) it costs less and recovers much faster.
And like I said, I haven't had time to mess with it on PTS yet, which is why I was asking for more info. I'm curious as to what Roadwulf saw as the effects of the secondaries on AoPM when compared to the other passives, and my own impression of what he might be seeing.
It may also be a particulary synergistic effect in force like Cascade draining the Form lowering the damage over time while tapping, vs being able to spam it and imbue+form spike it followed by spam with AoPM. Perhaps this isn't present in other ranged sets; I wouldn't know since I've only marginally messed with fire and elec.
Currently on live, with Guardian and Avenger, and I too defer to Falchoin's numbers, but it's been my experience that AoPM can nearly match an offensive like Kin Manip in Avenger, if only because while not hitting the same spike (usually about 100-300 points lower) it costs less and recovers much faster.
And like I said, I haven't had time to mess with it on PTS yet, which is why I was asking for more info. I'm curious as to what Roadwulf saw as the effects of the secondaries on AoPM when compared to the other passives, and my own impression of what he might be seeing.
It may also be a particulary synergistic effect in force like Cascade draining the Form lowering the damage over time while tapping, vs being able to spam it and imbue+form spike it followed by spam with AoPM. Perhaps this isn't present in other ranged sets; I wouldn't know since I've only marginally messed with fire and elec.
Ah I didn't realize you were saying LIVE.
Nevermind! The changes made on PTS really does rob some of AoPM power as an offensive tool (due to some nasty side effects of hybrid threat in part), but I still think it gives too much of a buff to secondary Super Stats still.
I refer to Falchoins numbers in this thread, that contradict your statement.
And I trust Falchoin's figures without question.
NOTE: I also think AoPM needs a heavy reduction in effectiveness, but the facts don't support what I underlined in your comment.
EDIT: removed the color from your post.
AoPM needs a "Slight" reduction in effectiveness. If you start hacking away at what makes the Passive what it is, you ruin it.
It need to be allowed to be the All-Stat buff without it abusing the new system too hard. But its not the Power that needs nerfing, its that its access to the new system needs to be limited. Also, I posted something on the end of the previous page if you guys missed it
Yup, missed that. The wording confuses me tho, you're saying that whatever the Primary gives as a boost, the Secondaries give half the Primary instead of what they would give with a different passive?
So if the Primary boosts damage by 25% with all other passives, then the secondaries would normally boost by 20%, but AoPM reduces it to 15% for the sake of balance since it's inflating the Primary to the equivalent of 30%? (simplified)
Yup, missed that. The wording confuses me tho, you're saying that whatever the Primary gives as a boost, the Secondaries give half the Primary instead of what they would give with a different passive?
So if the Primary boosts damage by 25% with all other passives, then the secondaries would normally boost by 20%, but AoPM reduces it to 15% for the sake of balance since it's inflating the Primary to the equivalent of 30%? (simplified)
Exactly, but you have to remember we're only working with two sets of variables here, since Magic Auras can only be run with Hybrid and Support, which are the "Balanced" roles.
In all honesty, I still want to see Radiant Protection to be able to be run with Tank, and Ebon Wrath to be run with the Offensives, but right now we're just talking about AoPM since its effect with the roles is slightly more pronounced.
And yes, you did simplify what my brain was finding a hard time putting into words, so thank you.
But like I said, this change should only effect the specific things that Roles add on, like Added Damage, Healing Bonus or Threat Generation.
But if your Secondary Stat is Presence, its shouldnt effect that Heal Bonus or the Hold Strengtth.
So to simplify:
If the Role would have your Secondary Stats get 75% of the Primary Stats
30% Damage (24%)
They would instead get 50%
30% Damage (15%)
But If then whatever bonus the additional Stat points would give to the Stat itself
Ego Ranged Damage/Knock
Int Recharge/Power cost
Dex Crit Chance/Dodge
Those would remain the same bonus as before, with the Passive only effecting the Point Stats.
And third, these Stat changes do not affect any allies in your team, they get whatever bonus to their role they would normally get from having the additional Stat Points from AoPM's secondary effect.
Ok, I just ran through the PTS with the new changes but I figured I'd post this here.
AoPM + Guardian + Int/Con/Str = 1100 tap spam Force Cascade (about 6 or something, endless with MSA and sheath) + 8 stack enrage + Energy Form (Immolation) + Imbue = 12-14k crit
Kin Manip + Ranged O + Ego/Con/Int = 1300 tap Force Cascade (not spam, can only shoot 2, but Kin Manip is gone, maybe 3 with MSA and sheath if I get lucky) + 8 stack enrage + Energy Form (Immolation) = 14-17k crit.
Gravy.
Except with the 72 points from AoPM (between 100 and 110 on PTS right now, actually) it also affords 233 healing per BCR tick vs 125, 30 energy return per tick vs 11, 10.5k hp vs 8k
Now, maybe Str as my other secondary might increase the gap a little, but that means that enrage wouldn't last as long and I'd be even more squishy, or enrage wouldn't cooldown nearly as often and I wouldn't be able to get off that second cascade, thus effectively eliminating DPS.
Keeping everything the same including stats and just changing into Kin Manip and Ranged O lowers the damage by about 10% from Ego etc, and only affords MAYBE 1 more FC tap.
I understand optimal building etc and sacrificing this and that for other things, but the SIGNIFICANT impact AoPM has for a build when compared to the minor 20% damage on a spike with the caveat of almost no DPS is not an even trade in the slightest.
I can put up my build and numbers if anyone is interested in replicating and seeing the significant difference, but in my mind there is simply no benefit to Ranged O vs AoPM. Yeah, the damage goes up, for all of .5 seconds.
Again, this may be a Force thing with it's weird synergy and form consumption/high cost. If it is, and everyone is ok with it because it works for all the other ranged powers and force kinda sucks for damage without fall damage then so am I. Just want to be clear tho.
Comments
Don't forget what Falchoin also said.
Any player using an offensive passive in Hybrid playing along with melee and ranged damage spec'd teamates is effectively committing suicide as they become the defacto tank without taking ANY taunting advantages.
I believe secondary stats are being weighed the same when calculating the total bonuses for a character. Playing with Personal Force Field before with max stats i could only get about a 6,000 hp shield on top of my normal HP. Now i can get almost 9,000. Which is awesome in itself but any buffs/adjustments to PFF I feel should be considered separately. (As a side note i feel like PFF could benefit more from bonus regen on attacking similar to how regeneration has bonuses healing on attacking rather than raw shield HP.) Back on topic though i will be testing how stats effect other passives once i get off work. I'm concerned that some numbers for passives could get out of control when the game has become too easy for certain builds already.
One of my favorite builds right now on live is a dex/ego toon that uses ego blades. With the change to ego effecting ranged damage and the removal of crit severity i feel like ego blades has been hit severely all around. To maximize damage you had to focus on your ego stat but now it seems counter productive for an ego blader (melee) as you're losing your crit severity as well as damage bonuses that are meant for a different kind of power to begin with. I do believe the ranged ego powers would benifit more from this change but as of now ego blades seems to be getting the short end of the deal.
A possible solution for the ego stat for ego blades would be to base the scaling bonus damage with other melee types such as dex or str. This way you wouldn't have to waste investments in the ego stat that you seem to only get half the benefit from now.
I've only been through about half the pages of comments but i've heard from other friends in game that there is talk about removing the role restrictions for passives. This... this sounds incredibly interesting as i've always thought about having certain passives in other roles, with them being less effective in other roles than what they were designed for of course but it would allow for some concepts to be made that i would love to have.
Not only does this pop-up show up, it also kicks you from ANY mission where it is displayed. This is evident when I attempted to play Resistance as it constantly booted me from the area regardless of what I was doing. Though, I was playing solo, so that might have had something to do with it. Anyone else having this sort of problem?
In my testing, I see 70 gives about +20% damage. 200 gives +30% damage. There's diminishing returns in those additional 130 points,but it gives something.
I agree, putting those on ego OR strength would be a solid move.
Lunges are 3s cooldowns (2ish with SS INT) that always apply a snare and often apply some variety of additional CC. The additional snare seems excessive.
Could always either roll the snare into most melee powers (probably too much work), or have some variety of "smart" detection. Actually, I think that's already in place, no? If you're in Brawler and use Lightning Arc, no snare is applied. If you turn around and use Dragon Claws, the snare applies.
So, you wouldn't even have to dump the snare. The game is already clearly capable of distinguishing which attack it should use the Snare with. It's purely about the damage bonus. With the two roles being near-identical now, they might as well be merged instead of continuing to kick hybridization in the nerts.
If anything Melee should be getting more damage benefits than it is now, and the 2x snare is needed because one snare usually just isnt enough. Also if you read the brawler description, the snare only applies to single target melee, hence why Dragons Claw snares in brawler. My question to you all, if i could hit my opponent for a 3k tap dmg at 10' and do the same thing at 100' which would you prefer?
Depends on the theme of the character, and the which power is more fun to use, really.
There are plenty of people that build solely for PvE or solely PvP, cherry picking in disregard of concept.
Activating a flight power (or mystic flight CTP device) if swinging was active before will sometimes cause your character to use their zip line from swinging when you press the jump key.
Traffic jam in MC outside of Destroids Rise Again.
The un-killed destroids that normally spawn with the retribution devices do not despawn on open mission completion or reset.
Orbital Cannon w/ Anvil of Dawn adv does not deal continuous damage after the initial blast.
Non-melee PBAoE's such as Pyre, Sparkstorm, Force Eruption, TK Eruption, TK Maelstrom, Ego Storm, Pillar of Poz and Epidemic do not benefit from the new EGO ranged damage boost yet are buffed by the Ranged Damage Role. Hurricane is an exception in that it's buffed by the ranged damage role and benefits from the new EGO ranged damage boost.
Tested on the blue laser in the PH.
Tank:
Block_____11 energy
Sheathe__9 energy
Hybrid:
Block_____13 energy
Sheathe__12 energy
Force Sheathe also deals 1 (11) slashing damage on each hit.
Also tested on PH blue laser.
Thanks Kali. d('-' ) And to Radia as well for those numbers. I wasn't certain if the roles still carried over their original bonuses in addition to the new superstat modifiers.
Forgot to mention this earlier but this has to be wrong, either here or on the PTS listing and in use. There are no actual benefits to using Hybrid other than base stats for your character.
Can anyone else confirm this?
Powers: Celestial
Skill: Ascension w/ Adv. "Judgement"
Upon Activating Ascension, Judgement does not apply currently. No stacks of Illumination are removed from either hostile or friendly targets, and no effect of damage or healing takes place. Judgement is completely non-functional
Suggestion:
Powers
Skill: Aura of Primal Majesty
After testing this out and seeing how it effects the new Secondary Super Stat system, I have determined that the problem with the Power is not how the Power works, but how the roles effect the power itself. As the Arcane Auras currently can only be used with Support or Hybrid, I suggest the following solution:
Make Aura of PM dictate its own bonuses (Damage, Healing, Threat) to Secondary Super Stats. As such, there would be a cap as to how much of a bonus this Passive could apply as the current Hybrid standard of 3/4ths bonus is too high, while the Sentinel 1/2 bonus feels closer to balanced. This would still allow for the use of Hybrid for its effects on the Primary Stat, without the secondaries causing the Passive to become overpowered. To me, atleast, they were the Stats that seemed the most effected by the passive.
However, I would leave the innate bonus for each stat alone, and concentrate only on the bonuses applied by roles.
Can you get a little more specific? Personally I had a feeling that AoPM would be little much with this system and letting it boost the secondaries by 25% more (or 50% depending on how you look at it) than an offensive role while retaining the same +30% boost to damage (for superstats) seems to be a bit much, even with the 5% bump to damage in offensive roles.
AoPM boosts the secondary stats higher by a considerable amount, and Hybrid allows said higher secondary stats to perform at 3/4s vs 1/2 of an offensive role, and after seeing AoPM in Guardian nearly match Kin Manip/Fiery Form in Avenger for damage while massively boosting all of Int's properties, well that 5% doesn't sound impressive to me, but I haven't had the time to mess with it.
For the record, I love it and want it to stay the way it is, but in reality it doesn't seem fair.
Where did you see this?
I refer to Falchoins numbers in this thread, that contradict your statement.
And I trust Falchoin's figures without question.
NOTE: I also think AoPM needs a heavy reduction in effectiveness, but the facts don't support what I underlined in your comment.
EDIT: removed the color from your post.
just my 2 cents on it.
Lets just go with Rank 3 AoPM and write out what I think it should state:
(realize I'm using the Wiki's basic stats, so they don't take Gear into account in upping the stats of the Passive)
Aura of Primal Majesty
Rank 3
+42 to all Stats
+27 to all ally stats
Bonuses to Secondary Super Stats (Damage, Heath, Threat) from this Passive regulate the overall bonus of these stats to Half whatever the bonus is to the Primary Super Stat
The innate bonuses of these stats calculate as normal.
This does not apply to allies stats, only the user of the Aura.
I added that last bit because, lets face it, one person should not be able to delegate to the others how their Stats should give bonuses. I also wonder if something like this could be worked toward balancing out Quarry down the line. Granted, the Soft Cap on Ego will help from keeping it from getting too OP. In all honesty, Quarry isnt as bad as AoPM in terms of basic problems.
Currently on live, with Guardian and Avenger, and I too defer to Falchoin's numbers, but it's been my experience that AoPM can nearly match an offensive like Kin Manip in Avenger, if only because while not hitting the same spike (usually about 100-300 points lower) it costs less and recovers much faster.
And like I said, I haven't had time to mess with it on PTS yet, which is why I was asking for more info. I'm curious as to what Roadwulf saw as the effects of the secondaries on AoPM when compared to the other passives, and my own impression of what he might be seeing.
It may also be a particulary synergistic effect in force like Cascade draining the Form lowering the damage over time while tapping, vs being able to spam it and imbue+form spike it followed by spam with AoPM. Perhaps this isn't present in other ranged sets; I wouldn't know since I've only marginally messed with fire and elec.
Ah I didn't realize you were saying LIVE.
Nevermind! The changes made on PTS really does rob some of AoPM power as an offensive tool (due to some nasty side effects of hybrid threat in part), but I still think it gives too much of a buff to secondary Super Stats still.
AoPM needs a "Slight" reduction in effectiveness. If you start hacking away at what makes the Passive what it is, you ruin it.
It need to be allowed to be the All-Stat buff without it abusing the new system too hard. But its not the Power that needs nerfing, its that its access to the new system needs to be limited. Also, I posted something on the end of the previous page if you guys missed it
So if the Primary boosts damage by 25% with all other passives, then the secondaries would normally boost by 20%, but AoPM reduces it to 15% for the sake of balance since it's inflating the Primary to the equivalent of 30%? (simplified)
Exactly, but you have to remember we're only working with two sets of variables here, since Magic Auras can only be run with Hybrid and Support, which are the "Balanced" roles.
In all honesty, I still want to see Radiant Protection to be able to be run with Tank, and Ebon Wrath to be run with the Offensives, but right now we're just talking about AoPM since its effect with the roles is slightly more pronounced.
And yes, you did simplify what my brain was finding a hard time putting into words, so thank you.
But like I said, this change should only effect the specific things that Roles add on, like Added Damage, Healing Bonus or Threat Generation.
But if your Secondary Stat is Presence, its shouldnt effect that Heal Bonus or the Hold Strengtth.
So to simplify:
If the Role would have your Secondary Stats get 75% of the Primary Stats
30% Damage (24%)
They would instead get 50%
30% Damage (15%)
But If then whatever bonus the additional Stat points would give to the Stat itself
Ego Ranged Damage/Knock
Int Recharge/Power cost
Dex Crit Chance/Dodge
Those would remain the same bonus as before, with the Passive only effecting the Point Stats.
And third, these Stat changes do not affect any allies in your team, they get whatever bonus to their role they would normally get from having the additional Stat Points from AoPM's secondary effect.
AoPM + Guardian + Int/Con/Str = 1100 tap spam Force Cascade (about 6 or something, endless with MSA and sheath) + 8 stack enrage + Energy Form (Immolation) + Imbue = 12-14k crit
Kin Manip + Ranged O + Ego/Con/Int = 1300 tap Force Cascade (not spam, can only shoot 2, but Kin Manip is gone, maybe 3 with MSA and sheath if I get lucky) + 8 stack enrage + Energy Form (Immolation) = 14-17k crit.
Gravy.
Except with the 72 points from AoPM (between 100 and 110 on PTS right now, actually) it also affords 233 healing per BCR tick vs 125, 30 energy return per tick vs 11, 10.5k hp vs 8k
Now, maybe Str as my other secondary might increase the gap a little, but that means that enrage wouldn't last as long and I'd be even more squishy, or enrage wouldn't cooldown nearly as often and I wouldn't be able to get off that second cascade, thus effectively eliminating DPS.
Keeping everything the same including stats and just changing into Kin Manip and Ranged O lowers the damage by about 10% from Ego etc, and only affords MAYBE 1 more FC tap.
I understand optimal building etc and sacrificing this and that for other things, but the SIGNIFICANT impact AoPM has for a build when compared to the minor 20% damage on a spike with the caveat of almost no DPS is not an even trade in the slightest.
I can put up my build and numbers if anyone is interested in replicating and seeing the significant difference, but in my mind there is simply no benefit to Ranged O vs AoPM. Yeah, the damage goes up, for all of .5 seconds.
Again, this may be a Force thing with it's weird synergy and form consumption/high cost. If it is, and everyone is ok with it because it works for all the other ranged powers and force kinda sucks for damage without fall damage then so am I. Just want to be clear tho.