Hell while we're at it, Hunter's Instinct needs a change to be scaled on Int or Dex.
Aversion uses Dex/Int. Quarry uses Dex/Int. Torrent, Storm and Gas have cooldowns, and Hunter's Instinct needs crits. Archery is a Dex/Int set.
So whose idea was it to have it scale off Ego?!
It used to not have an energy unlock at all, and people requested a Archery version of Killer Instinct, and got it. Better than nothing, but much worse than using MSA.
Someone went 'hey, Archery wants a secondary unlock. Let's copy Killer Instinct'.
I thought it was because they wanted to avoid double dipping INT. But then again, it's not like other powers don't already do that... Form of the Tempest double dips DEX and most support passives double dip PRE if you SS it.
The real thing that was overlooked was Archery's slow attacks compared with Munitions' fast attacks. Hunter's Instinct could use an overhaul. I'm going to quote my suggestion from the Archery framework thread.
Almost all Archery attack powers are slow firing and have charge components. Only Strafe (obviously), Snap Shot, Storm of Arrows and Gas Arrow lack a charge component to them. You can add Explosive Arrow to that if you count the advantage, but I've always felt that the delayed explosion not being affected by ranking or charge time to be an oversight. Storm of Arrows is the only power that is sort of viable to attempt a Hunter's Instinct proc, and even then, not so much. Its pulse period is 1 second which is slower than the usual 0.5 second standard for most maintain powers (which may or may not be offset by its chance to deal additional damage). And then there's the cost... it's more expensive than the infamous Sword Cyclone. Like Torrent of Arrows, Storm of Arrows has a lot of nice things crammed into it balanced with a cooldown time. This makes it somewhat easy to change without disrupting balance. I can see it having a lower cost, but the 1 second pulse is somewhat thematically justified. Snap Shot could have somewhat worked as a maintain where you fired off single arrows in quick succession.
I feel that a Form of the Tiger (A.K.A. the Form toggle that no one uses) style mechanic would've been better suited for Archery. Just have it give energy when charging a ranged attack for more than half its max charge time. Oh, and find ways to bypass some dodge or at the very least, bypass some avoidance. Archery is a framework that has slow activation times and runs off charge attacks. It's hampered a lot more by Lightning Reflexes and the Elite difficulty buff than other frameworks.
Can one assume that since the "Disciple" is slated for release on/around July 26-28,
that the TK pass (+ stat changes, etc) is also slated for release on that date?
Can one assume that since the "Disciple" is slated for release on/around July 26-28,
that the TK pass (+ stat changes, etc) is also slated for release on that date?
That would be a sensible, if not obvious, assumption.
You need to change Killer instinct and hunter's instinct back to the way they used to be.
Before this push i was getting 61 energy return once per maintain of a power with the 4 second internal cooldown.
Now i'm getting 49 energy once per maintain with the supposed 3 second internal cooldown (the tooltip still says 4 seconds)...
This is a flat out nerf, completely and utterly... It was already hard enough to maintain the powers getting 61 energy back per maintain depending on when a crit procced it during the maintain, now it's nearly impossible for a pure dex/ego munitions toon to fully maintain any number of powers without starting out at maximum energy... Which in my case is only 126 energy...
*added then took out pointless math rant... No one ever reads them anyways.*
Technically, it's not a nerf since your energy per second went from 15 1/4 old to 16 1/3 new.
The problem is that during the course of a single maintain you're only going to get one tic of energy return because either way killer instinct has a longer internal cooldown than the length of the maintains. So what happens is that while technically you are getting more energy per second, the reality is that you've lost energy per maintain.
Since munitions is all about maintains, this is horribad. My muni toon needs 20 energy per tic to maintain gatling gun. Under the old system, the one tic of energy return would power three more tics of gatling. This still wasn't enough to fully maintain, but it's better than now where he gets only 2 more tics.
What munitions needs for an energy return mechanism is something that matches up to how it's powers work. The majority of muni powers are fast small hits (also known as "Near Worthless In PvP Because of IDF ). So, energy should be fast small hits. Instead of a chunk of energy every 3 or 4 seconds, it needs to be chunks of energy every half second or second. And if it's going to stay tied to crits, which in turn means tied to DEX, then it needs to scale to DEX or else you've all but locked muni toons into DEX/EGO builds if they want to use the set's internal energy return. Last, it needs to find the sweet spot where a toon with normal stats can fully maintain all the powers once, although I wouldn't go so far as to make them infinite (ie, it's okay that gatling gun costs more per tick than killer instinct returns so long as Killer Instinct + normal starting equilibrium > energy cost of full gatling maintain)
Technically, it's not a nerf since your energy per second went from 15 1/4 old to 16 1/3 new.
Actually, even without the issues with AR you note, it's a reduction. If we take a character with a 35% crit chance, on average it takes 1.4s (with AR) to get a crit, after coming off cooldown, and therefore we have to compare 61/5.4s to 47/4.4s, or 11.3 eps vs 10.7 eps. That's not a large reduction (~5%), but it is a reduction. It's even more pronounced in short engagements; at the limit case, in a 3s engagement, you'll never get two procs, average energy gain is reduced by 25%.
Personally, I'd like ICDs removed from powers like this and replaced with an energy-over-time that gets refreshed by the trigger recurring (like the way MSA works).
Personally, I'd like ICDs removed from powers like this and replaced with an energy-over-time that gets refreshed by the trigger recurring (like the way MSA works).
I like this idea a lot. It will be much easier to balance energy unlocks if they are a bit closer to each other in function. An energy over time effect will also smooth out some of the stop and start aspects of energy gain as well.
Personally, I'd like ICDs removed from powers like this and replaced with an energy-over-time that gets refreshed by the trigger recurring (like the way MSA works).
This a million times. I'd MUCH rather have a reliable stream of small amounts of energy than a big random chunk of "oh god please" energy at the precise timing i need it to proc to be able to maintain a power. If each time you crit it procced a refresh on a 3 second energy over time that was ticking for 20ish energy per second it would fit to the set perfectly.
I like this idea a lot. It will be much easier to balance energy unlocks if they are a bit closer to each other in function. An energy over time effect will also smooth out some of the stop and start aspects of energy gain as well.
Completely agree there.
I'd welcome this particularly on Killer Instinct and Hunter's Instinct.
I also agree with the other sentiment someone made that Hunter's Instinct should focus more on charged attacks than the number of critical hits, as Archery doesn't fire off enough shots quickly enough to get decent energy return from this.
So devs:
Please look at the changes you've currently made to Killer Instinct and Hunter's Instinct. Right now, in actual use, they're an energy nerf to the moves/powers we have. There's still time to fix this before it goes live and irritates a LOT of players unnecessarily.
Please consider:
1) Causing Killer Instinct and Hunter's Instinct to give energy over time,
I also agree with the other sentiment someone made that Hunter's Instinct should focus more on charged attacks than the number of critical hits, as Archery doesn't fire off enough shots quickly enough to get decent energy return from this.
Uh...archery isn't charged shots. Archery isn't anything. It's the most diverse attack set in the game. It's got a decent maintain attack in storm of arrows. It's got the lightning fast snap shot. It has charged attacks. It has a strong knockback attack. It has one of the two sniper powers. And damage wise, it has piercing, fire, electric, sonic, toxic, and falling. It's also home to the very popular 'escape' power in evasive maneuvers, and the most flexible damage buff offensive passive in quarry.
It also has a ton of powers with cooldowns which combined with quarry's need for INT makes MSA the obvious choice for energy passives.
Of course, the archery AT doesn't get that. They're stuck with the really bad hunter's instinct. Then again, energy return is the least of the archery AT's problems as the entire set is pretty underwhelming damage wise. (and before you ask, yes, I have a level 40 archer)
Fixing Hunter's Instinct by tying it to chargeups would not help. It's okay being tied to crits, but like munitions, it needs to provide lots of small chunks of energy rather than spaced out large chunks.
Personally, I'd like ICDs removed from powers like this and replaced with an energy-over-time that gets refreshed by the trigger recurring (like the way MSA works).
I like this idea a lot. It will be much easier to balance energy unlocks if they are a bit closer to each other in function. An energy over time effect will also smooth out some of the stop and start aspects of energy gain as well.
This a million times. I'd MUCH rather have a reliable stream of small amounts of energy than a big random chunk of "oh god please" energy at the precise timing i need it to proc to be able to maintain a power. If each time you crit it procced a refresh on a 3 second energy over time that was ticking for 20ish energy per second it would fit to the set perfectly.
This was actually my suggestion for a Energy unlock makeover for Ego Leech. I wish all the energy unlocks worked like MSA or Rush buff.
This was actually my suggestion for a Energy unlock makeover for Ego Leech. I wish all the energy unlocks worked like MSA or Rush buff.
If Force ever gets its own energy unlock, I hope it's big chunks because Force is all about heavy blasting the bejeezus out of people rather than wearing them down. As such, I'd want the energy returns to match the speed I'm firing off powers.
If Force ever gets its own energy unlock, I hope it's big chunks because Force is all about heavy blasting the bejeezus out of people rather than wearing them down. As such, I'd want the energy returns to match the speed I'm firing off powers.
Hm. Energy return whenever you launch someone into low earth orbit?
Did anyone test challenge levels? We are unable to reproduce the original issue in-house, so we hope it is fixed.
Okay, just went and tested for you and did all the things that are problematic on live like Serpent's Lantern bunkers, which is an instance within an instance within an instance, logging out and in while in an instance, and changing difficulty after getting the mission that sends you into an instance. None of them seemed to change difficulty on their own anymore so maybe y'all really do have that bug fixed which will be awesomesauce.
Also, took a minute and tested the warheads fix. Doesn't proc retaliation anymore. Doesn't stack defiance or lightning reflexes anymore. Doesn't feed defiant energy. IDF doesn't reduce the incoming damage to 1. Much love for this fix!
Uh...archery isn't charged shots. Archery isn't anything. It's the most diverse attack set in the game. It's got a decent maintain attack in storm of arrows. It's got the lightning fast snap shot. It has charged attacks. It has a strong knockback attack. It has one of the two sniper powers. And damage wise, it has piercing, fire, electric, sonic, toxic, and falling. It's also home to the very popular 'escape' power in evasive maneuvers, and the most flexible damage buff offensive passive in quarry.
It also has a ton of powers with cooldowns which combined with quarry's need for INT makes MSA the obvious choice for energy passives.
Of course, the archery AT doesn't get that. They're stuck with the really bad hunter's instinct. Then again, energy return is the least of the archery AT's problems as the entire set is pretty underwhelming damage wise. (and before you ask, yes, I have a level 40 archer)
Fixing Hunter's Instinct by tying it to chargeups would not help. It's okay being tied to crits, but like munitions, it needs to provide lots of small chunks of energy rather than spaced out large chunks.
A most information post
In which case then, giving Hunter's Instinct an energy over time mechanism would definitely seem the way forward, perhaps triggered by criticals?
Comments
Hell while we're at it, Hunter's Instinct needs a change to be scaled on Int or Dex.
Aversion uses Dex/Int. Quarry uses Dex/Int. Torrent, Storm and Gas have cooldowns, and Hunter's Instinct needs crits. Archery is a Dex/Int set.
So whose idea was it to have it scale off Ego?!
It used to not have an energy unlock at all, and people requested a Archery version of Killer Instinct, and got it. Better than nothing, but much worse than using MSA.
I thought it was because they wanted to avoid double dipping INT. But then again, it's not like other powers don't already do that... Form of the Tempest double dips DEX and most support passives double dip PRE if you SS it.
The real thing that was overlooked was Archery's slow attacks compared with Munitions' fast attacks. Hunter's Instinct could use an overhaul. I'm going to quote my suggestion from the Archery framework thread.
What archer doesn't just use MSA? There are oodles of cooldowns in archery, and as you pointed out, it's a dex/INT set.
Marksman ATs.
Poor *******s.
Can one assume that since the "Disciple" is slated for release on/around July 26-28,
that the TK pass (+ stat changes, etc) is also slated for release on that date?
That would be a sensible, if not obvious, assumption.
Thanks.
Hasn't been that way since before you started playing!
Technically, it's not a nerf since your energy per second went from 15 1/4 old to 16 1/3 new.
The problem is that during the course of a single maintain you're only going to get one tic of energy return because either way killer instinct has a longer internal cooldown than the length of the maintains. So what happens is that while technically you are getting more energy per second, the reality is that you've lost energy per maintain.
Since munitions is all about maintains, this is horribad. My muni toon needs 20 energy per tic to maintain gatling gun. Under the old system, the one tic of energy return would power three more tics of gatling. This still wasn't enough to fully maintain, but it's better than now where he gets only 2 more tics.
What munitions needs for an energy return mechanism is something that matches up to how it's powers work. The majority of muni powers are fast small hits (also known as "Near Worthless In PvP Because of IDF
Personally, I'd like ICDs removed from powers like this and replaced with an energy-over-time that gets refreshed by the trigger recurring (like the way MSA works).
I like this idea a lot. It will be much easier to balance energy unlocks if they are a bit closer to each other in function. An energy over time effect will also smooth out some of the stop and start aspects of energy gain as well.
This a million times. I'd MUCH rather have a reliable stream of small amounts of energy than a big random chunk of "oh god please" energy at the precise timing i need it to proc to be able to maintain a power. If each time you crit it procced a refresh on a 3 second energy over time that was ticking for 20ish energy per second it would fit to the set perfectly.
Completely agree there.
I'd welcome this particularly on Killer Instinct and Hunter's Instinct.
I also agree with the other sentiment someone made that Hunter's Instinct should focus more on charged attacks than the number of critical hits, as Archery doesn't fire off enough shots quickly enough to get decent energy return from this.
So devs:
Please look at the changes you've currently made to Killer Instinct and Hunter's Instinct. Right now, in actual use, they're an energy nerf to the moves/powers we have. There's still time to fix this before it goes live and irritates a LOT of players unnecessarily.
Please consider:
1) Causing Killer Instinct and Hunter's Instinct to give energy over time,
Uh...archery isn't charged shots. Archery isn't anything. It's the most diverse attack set in the game. It's got a decent maintain attack in storm of arrows. It's got the lightning fast snap shot. It has charged attacks. It has a strong knockback attack. It has one of the two sniper powers. And damage wise, it has piercing, fire, electric, sonic, toxic, and falling. It's also home to the very popular 'escape' power in evasive maneuvers, and the most flexible damage buff offensive passive in quarry.
It also has a ton of powers with cooldowns which combined with quarry's need for INT makes MSA the obvious choice for energy passives.
Of course, the archery AT doesn't get that. They're stuck with the really bad hunter's instinct. Then again, energy return is the least of the archery AT's problems as the entire set is pretty underwhelming damage wise. (and before you ask, yes, I have a level 40 archer)
Fixing Hunter's Instinct by tying it to chargeups would not help. It's okay being tied to crits, but like munitions, it needs to provide lots of small chunks of energy rather than spaced out large chunks.
This was actually my suggestion for a Energy unlock makeover for Ego Leech. I wish all the energy unlocks worked like MSA or Rush buff.
If Force ever gets its own energy unlock, I hope it's big chunks because Force is all about heavy blasting the bejeezus out of people rather than wearing them down. As such, I'd want the energy returns to match the speed I'm firing off powers.
Did anyone test challenge levels? We are unable to reproduce the original issue in-house, so we hope it is fixed.
Okay, just went and tested for you and did all the things that are problematic on live like Serpent's Lantern bunkers, which is an instance within an instance within an instance, logging out and in while in an instance, and changing difficulty after getting the mission that sends you into an instance. None of them seemed to change difficulty on their own anymore so maybe y'all really do have that bug fixed which will be awesomesauce.
Also, took a minute and tested the warheads fix. Doesn't proc retaliation anymore. Doesn't stack defiance or lightning reflexes anymore. Doesn't feed defiant energy. IDF doesn't reduce the incoming damage to 1. Much love for this fix!
A most information post
In which case then, giving Hunter's Instinct an energy over time mechanism would definitely seem the way forward, perhaps triggered by criticals?
Difficulty changes to normal usually when you alt+tab during zone load, or game just crashes(which is more frequent)