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Nemesis System Revamp Redux
Archived Post
Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
I posted this way back in April 2010, but I thought it might be worth revisiting --and revising.
OVERVIEW
Places where I'd like to see the current nemesis system reworked are:
(a) Nemesis Type
This is similar to the current build, but expanded. Missions are tailored for the nemesis type, so the gritty crimelord isn't summoning demons from hell, and the brute isn't going after scientific super discoveries.
I've also included suggestions for missions that fit each Nemesis type. I consider these as "nice ideas, but I doubt the resources exist for them" -- the team's shown they're quite capable of designing decent missions. I could live with redundant missions in the chains, but the final two for each type should be unique.
(b) Minions.
This section is mostly new types of minions, whose visuals are (mostly) taken from existing models or something that's easy to put together. I've also suggested a couple of other options to flesh them out; unlike others, I don't advocate full minion designs.
(c) Text field
This is the big new one to help the hero really personalize the nemesis. For the most part, they'll only affect text insertions in dialogue and cutscreens.
(d) Lair
How about getting a chance to take the fight to the bad guy? Select his lair type, and now you can!
(e) Combat Advantage
Want to make your nemesis tougher in a fight? Do you even want to make the nemesis so tough you need a group? This is your option!
(f) Supergroup Nemesis
You want to bond your SG together by fighting a common foe that no one member can face alone? Here you go!
A. Nemesis Type.
BASIC NEMESES
1. Rampaging Brute
Essentially, a reworking of the current Brute archetype. is, but the ultimate goal is to wreck something on a massive scale, not build a death ray. He wants carnage and the hero's head. His modus operandi involves going into a facility. wreaking havoc, grabbing something and getting away. The Brute will appear very frequently in a mission, with less minion support than other types.
Missions include:
(a) Stopping his assault
(b) Rescuing civilians from areas he's damaged (while others try to loot them)
(c) Rescuing people who made the mistake of trying to help or manipulate him.
(d) facing down a hero who says you're too soft on him,
(e) Fighting your way into an area where he's managed to goad that impetuous young hero to meet him mano o mano (and whom he plans to kill in the fight).
(f) Protecting a journalist who publicly insulted him.
Instead of escaping in the opening mission, the Brute should get beaten, where he vows to get so powerful that the hero can't beat him: then we get "Prison Break" and we work the draysha storyline into this nemesis, as the Brute struggles to become Too Damn Tough for anyone. The climax of the chain involves him succeeding, beating the stuffing out of the hero in the penultimate mission, but the hero gets enough data to have someone fashion an antidote, which he then administers in the final mission to get the victory.
2. Psychotic
A reworking of the current Lunatic: these villains are insane and evil and his crimes reflect that sadistic nature. The world is out to get them, they offer paranoid rambles in their cutscenes and kill minions who dare to question them. Motivationally, they're take their cue from the Heath Ledger Joker; they're just plain nuts, and they want everyone to become as nuts as them.
The Psychotic missions include:
(a) detonating bombs throughout the city to celebrate Calvin Biselle's birthday.
(b) releasing patients from New Bedlam Asylum in Fell's Point (you can reuse the Dementia asylum map from Demonflame).
(c) printing counterfeit money with a slow acting drug that triggers psychotic rages.
(d) blanketing the city with a ray that makes people unable to fall asleep.
(e) kidnapping the jury that convicted them and putting them on trial.
(f) holding a "killer of the year" competition; the player has to run around and stop a number of villains involved in proving their lunacy.
The suggested climactic mission is a "historical reenactment of the Battle of Detroit", where the villain finds an abandoned Destroyer base and tries to bring it online to destroy Millennium City with a backup orbital platform.
3. Mystical Mastermind
Not all masterminds are alike. The mystical menace's plots are all about sorcery, diabolism, and the occult. Their goal is supremacy and power in the occult field.
The Mystical Menace missions include:
(a) "All That Glitters" (though preferably with a different lead in than a nuke theft).
(b) Prevent him from stealing a hereditary relic of the Archmage.
(c) Rescue someone he's banished to the Qlipthotic.
(d) Interrupt his meeting with a powerful efreeti who's trying to see if the nemesis is worthy of his service.
(e) Free students at a school for sorcery that have been enslaved by the nemesis.
The Mystical Menace's climactic mission is the opening of a gateway to the Abyss, shutting it down and defeating the Menace after it's been shut down.
4. Scientific Mastermind
Most of the existing non-mystical nemesis missions should fit into this chain, including Deathray Demolition.
OTHERS
1. Crimelord
This is a crime boss, the head of a local syndicate. Missions should involve things like:
(a) Thwarting robberies, smuggling, and criminal activities of a non-SF or supernatural nature.
(b) Protecting people who want to testify against him
(c) Rescuing kidnap victims
(d) Stopping his goons from intimidating the press
(e) Preventing his protection squads from threatening local businesses.
(f) Preventing the massacre of a rival crime family.
The climactic mission is something that will give the villain complete domination of Millennium City's underworld (or politics); the hero should also collect enough evidence to finally convict him.
The Crimelord rarely appears directly in a mission. If you do the prison break episode with him, he should walk out with a high priced lawyer's help, free and clear -- *totally* unconnected to the riot and the supervillains who have been left behind to kill you. Really.
2. Hitman
This guy is a mercenary for hire -- and he's been hired to kill the hero. Perhaps he's a cool professional and there's nothing personal between the hero and the villain. Or perhaps there's an old grudge and the enmity runs *real* deep. This nemesis should have a realistic edge; their missions do not involve tech beyond a James Bond level and no magic (unless the player designates that in the villain's powers or minions).
Hitman missions include:
(a) gathering clues to learn where the hitman's next target will be and stopping him.
(b) escorting people through dangerous areas to protect them from the hitman and his hired guns.,
(c) escorting people into the courthouse at Millennium City Hall to testify against mob leaders,
(d) preventing the hitman from getting his hands on experimental weapons.
(e) finding evidence to clear a man who was falsely accused of the hitman's crimes.
The climactic mission is discovering the identity of the man who hired the hitman, followed by a showdown with the villain in an unusual environment (clock tower, hall of mirrors).
3. Prankster
The prankster is a more light-hearted version of the lunatic, designed for heroes who are, less than serious. Their plots are outlandish and zany, and likely to offend those who want a serious tone in their game -- but not every player wants the same tone as the Vibora Bay Apocalypse throughout the entire game.
Suggested plots include:
(a) mutating high school athletes into monsters
(b) deevolving priests into apes,
(c) kidnapping Sapphire (again) and brain-washing her into becoming his side kick, Psychotica, etc.
(d) dressing people up into versions of the hero's costume and getting them to commit crimes.
(e) unleashing an army of robot toys.
(f) casting a magic spell that will change the face on every note of currency with his image.
The Prankster's final mission is to prevent him from desecrating Lemurian artifacts at a museum exhibit by writing his name on them, which will anger the Lemurians -- and accidentally unleash something terrifying.
4. Dictator
Recently attaining power on the seedy Caribbean island of Costa Azul, den of crime and sin, this evil dictator has been stirring up trouble around the globe. trying to divert his enemies while he seizes ultimate power. You may be lifelong adversaries or you may just have stumbled on his plan, but when he targets you in his sights, watch out!
Suggested plots include:
(a) having his agents steal classified documents and attempt to smuggle them out of the country.
(b) sabotaging a PRIMUS facility where robots are running amok.
(c) stealing arcane treasures from a museum, including the legendary Spear of Destiny.
(d) planting bombs at a peace conference held by his enemies to prevent them from uniting against him.
(e) kidnapping a super model to become the Ninth Mrs. (or Mister) Dictator.
(f) hiring a telepath into mind controlling brokers at the Millennium City Stock Exchange to buy and sell the world into chaos.
The Dictator is building a weapon of mass destruction on his island stronghold. You and a crack team of UNTIL soldiers need to storm the island, James Bond style, and put a stop to him -- of course, he'll have a trick in the end that turns it into a man to man combat.
5. Criminal Gang Leader
Maybe your nemesis isn't out to conquer the world or do anything major. Maybe he or she is just the head of a small criminal gang and wants to commit the perfect robbery.
Suggested plots include:
(a) robbing a jewelry exchange.
(b) attempting to get evidence to blackmail Lewis Frey into giving security footage from Club Caprice, to use in blackmailing several heroes.
(c) stealing the proceeds from a charity auction.
(d) trying to coerce an old time reformed criminal into joining their gang.
(e) kidnapping a wealthy celebrity and trying to replace him with an imposter who'll sign his bank account over to him.
(f) sabotaging the city's automated transit grid so they can more easily make their escapes.
The criminal gang's ultimate crime is to steal a Lemurian artifact, a treasure so precious that it will force Arvad to go to war with the surface world unless the item is recovered before the Lemurians realize it's missing.
6. Agent Commander
Because of your past meddling, VIPER has appointed a commander and a special task force designed to take you out! The minions for this chain are automatically VIPER agents.
(Yeah, we could do this with any of the organizations in-game, but let's start with VIPER, then expand if this proves popular.)
Scenarios for this
(a) Expose the truth about a story that VIPER planted in the Adair Network to besmirch your reputation!
(b) Prevent VIPER from perfecting a new Draysha compound.
(c) Try to hack into the Serpentine network and shut it down long enough for UNTIL to perform a VIPER busting operation.
(d) Try to keep VIPER from busting Boa Constrictor out of his parole hearing.
(e) Expose a VIPER sympathizer on the Milllennium City council.
(f) Prevent Serpent mages from summoning Viperia to destroy you.
In the end, the VIPER Commander attempts to build a WMD to blow up the city, but you'll get to stop him.
OVERVIEW
Places where I'd like to see the current nemesis system reworked are:
(a) Nemesis Type
This is similar to the current build, but expanded. Missions are tailored for the nemesis type, so the gritty crimelord isn't summoning demons from hell, and the brute isn't going after scientific super discoveries.
I've also included suggestions for missions that fit each Nemesis type. I consider these as "nice ideas, but I doubt the resources exist for them" -- the team's shown they're quite capable of designing decent missions. I could live with redundant missions in the chains, but the final two for each type should be unique.
(b) Minions.
This section is mostly new types of minions, whose visuals are (mostly) taken from existing models or something that's easy to put together. I've also suggested a couple of other options to flesh them out; unlike others, I don't advocate full minion designs.
(c) Text field
This is the big new one to help the hero really personalize the nemesis. For the most part, they'll only affect text insertions in dialogue and cutscreens.
(d) Lair
How about getting a chance to take the fight to the bad guy? Select his lair type, and now you can!
(e) Combat Advantage
Want to make your nemesis tougher in a fight? Do you even want to make the nemesis so tough you need a group? This is your option!
(f) Supergroup Nemesis
You want to bond your SG together by fighting a common foe that no one member can face alone? Here you go!
A. Nemesis Type.
BASIC NEMESES
1. Rampaging Brute
Essentially, a reworking of the current Brute archetype. is, but the ultimate goal is to wreck something on a massive scale, not build a death ray. He wants carnage and the hero's head. His modus operandi involves going into a facility. wreaking havoc, grabbing something and getting away. The Brute will appear very frequently in a mission, with less minion support than other types.
Missions include:
(a) Stopping his assault
(b) Rescuing civilians from areas he's damaged (while others try to loot them)
(c) Rescuing people who made the mistake of trying to help or manipulate him.
(d) facing down a hero who says you're too soft on him,
(e) Fighting your way into an area where he's managed to goad that impetuous young hero to meet him mano o mano (and whom he plans to kill in the fight).
(f) Protecting a journalist who publicly insulted him.
Instead of escaping in the opening mission, the Brute should get beaten, where he vows to get so powerful that the hero can't beat him: then we get "Prison Break" and we work the draysha storyline into this nemesis, as the Brute struggles to become Too Damn Tough for anyone. The climax of the chain involves him succeeding, beating the stuffing out of the hero in the penultimate mission, but the hero gets enough data to have someone fashion an antidote, which he then administers in the final mission to get the victory.
2. Psychotic
A reworking of the current Lunatic: these villains are insane and evil and his crimes reflect that sadistic nature. The world is out to get them, they offer paranoid rambles in their cutscenes and kill minions who dare to question them. Motivationally, they're take their cue from the Heath Ledger Joker; they're just plain nuts, and they want everyone to become as nuts as them.
The Psychotic missions include:
(a) detonating bombs throughout the city to celebrate Calvin Biselle's birthday.
(b) releasing patients from New Bedlam Asylum in Fell's Point (you can reuse the Dementia asylum map from Demonflame).
(c) printing counterfeit money with a slow acting drug that triggers psychotic rages.
(d) blanketing the city with a ray that makes people unable to fall asleep.
(e) kidnapping the jury that convicted them and putting them on trial.
(f) holding a "killer of the year" competition; the player has to run around and stop a number of villains involved in proving their lunacy.
The suggested climactic mission is a "historical reenactment of the Battle of Detroit", where the villain finds an abandoned Destroyer base and tries to bring it online to destroy Millennium City with a backup orbital platform.
3. Mystical Mastermind
Not all masterminds are alike. The mystical menace's plots are all about sorcery, diabolism, and the occult. Their goal is supremacy and power in the occult field.
The Mystical Menace missions include:
(a) "All That Glitters" (though preferably with a different lead in than a nuke theft).
(b) Prevent him from stealing a hereditary relic of the Archmage.
(c) Rescue someone he's banished to the Qlipthotic.
(d) Interrupt his meeting with a powerful efreeti who's trying to see if the nemesis is worthy of his service.
(e) Free students at a school for sorcery that have been enslaved by the nemesis.
The Mystical Menace's climactic mission is the opening of a gateway to the Abyss, shutting it down and defeating the Menace after it's been shut down.
4. Scientific Mastermind
Most of the existing non-mystical nemesis missions should fit into this chain, including Deathray Demolition.
OTHERS
1. Crimelord
This is a crime boss, the head of a local syndicate. Missions should involve things like:
(a) Thwarting robberies, smuggling, and criminal activities of a non-SF or supernatural nature.
(b) Protecting people who want to testify against him
(c) Rescuing kidnap victims
(d) Stopping his goons from intimidating the press
(e) Preventing his protection squads from threatening local businesses.
(f) Preventing the massacre of a rival crime family.
The climactic mission is something that will give the villain complete domination of Millennium City's underworld (or politics); the hero should also collect enough evidence to finally convict him.
The Crimelord rarely appears directly in a mission. If you do the prison break episode with him, he should walk out with a high priced lawyer's help, free and clear -- *totally* unconnected to the riot and the supervillains who have been left behind to kill you. Really.
2. Hitman
This guy is a mercenary for hire -- and he's been hired to kill the hero. Perhaps he's a cool professional and there's nothing personal between the hero and the villain. Or perhaps there's an old grudge and the enmity runs *real* deep. This nemesis should have a realistic edge; their missions do not involve tech beyond a James Bond level and no magic (unless the player designates that in the villain's powers or minions).
Hitman missions include:
(a) gathering clues to learn where the hitman's next target will be and stopping him.
(b) escorting people through dangerous areas to protect them from the hitman and his hired guns.,
(c) escorting people into the courthouse at Millennium City Hall to testify against mob leaders,
(d) preventing the hitman from getting his hands on experimental weapons.
(e) finding evidence to clear a man who was falsely accused of the hitman's crimes.
The climactic mission is discovering the identity of the man who hired the hitman, followed by a showdown with the villain in an unusual environment (clock tower, hall of mirrors).
3. Prankster
The prankster is a more light-hearted version of the lunatic, designed for heroes who are, less than serious. Their plots are outlandish and zany, and likely to offend those who want a serious tone in their game -- but not every player wants the same tone as the Vibora Bay Apocalypse throughout the entire game.
Suggested plots include:
(a) mutating high school athletes into monsters
(b) deevolving priests into apes,
(c) kidnapping Sapphire (again) and brain-washing her into becoming his side kick, Psychotica, etc.
(d) dressing people up into versions of the hero's costume and getting them to commit crimes.
(e) unleashing an army of robot toys.
(f) casting a magic spell that will change the face on every note of currency with his image.
The Prankster's final mission is to prevent him from desecrating Lemurian artifacts at a museum exhibit by writing his name on them, which will anger the Lemurians -- and accidentally unleash something terrifying.
4. Dictator
Recently attaining power on the seedy Caribbean island of Costa Azul, den of crime and sin, this evil dictator has been stirring up trouble around the globe. trying to divert his enemies while he seizes ultimate power. You may be lifelong adversaries or you may just have stumbled on his plan, but when he targets you in his sights, watch out!
Suggested plots include:
(a) having his agents steal classified documents and attempt to smuggle them out of the country.
(b) sabotaging a PRIMUS facility where robots are running amok.
(c) stealing arcane treasures from a museum, including the legendary Spear of Destiny.
(d) planting bombs at a peace conference held by his enemies to prevent them from uniting against him.
(e) kidnapping a super model to become the Ninth Mrs. (or Mister) Dictator.
(f) hiring a telepath into mind controlling brokers at the Millennium City Stock Exchange to buy and sell the world into chaos.
The Dictator is building a weapon of mass destruction on his island stronghold. You and a crack team of UNTIL soldiers need to storm the island, James Bond style, and put a stop to him -- of course, he'll have a trick in the end that turns it into a man to man combat.
5. Criminal Gang Leader
Maybe your nemesis isn't out to conquer the world or do anything major. Maybe he or she is just the head of a small criminal gang and wants to commit the perfect robbery.
Suggested plots include:
(a) robbing a jewelry exchange.
(b) attempting to get evidence to blackmail Lewis Frey into giving security footage from Club Caprice, to use in blackmailing several heroes.
(c) stealing the proceeds from a charity auction.
(d) trying to coerce an old time reformed criminal into joining their gang.
(e) kidnapping a wealthy celebrity and trying to replace him with an imposter who'll sign his bank account over to him.
(f) sabotaging the city's automated transit grid so they can more easily make their escapes.
The criminal gang's ultimate crime is to steal a Lemurian artifact, a treasure so precious that it will force Arvad to go to war with the surface world unless the item is recovered before the Lemurians realize it's missing.
6. Agent Commander
Because of your past meddling, VIPER has appointed a commander and a special task force designed to take you out! The minions for this chain are automatically VIPER agents.
(Yeah, we could do this with any of the organizations in-game, but let's start with VIPER, then expand if this proves popular.)
Scenarios for this
(a) Expose the truth about a story that VIPER planted in the Adair Network to besmirch your reputation!
(b) Prevent VIPER from perfecting a new Draysha compound.
(c) Try to hack into the Serpentine network and shut it down long enough for UNTIL to perform a VIPER busting operation.
(d) Try to keep VIPER from busting Boa Constrictor out of his parole hearing.
(e) Expose a VIPER sympathizer on the Milllennium City council.
(f) Prevent Serpent mages from summoning Viperia to destroy you.
In the end, the VIPER Commander attempts to build a WMD to blow up the city, but you'll get to stop him.
Post edited by Archived Post on
0
Comments
(a) Additional Minion Types
Some of these exist amongst other minion types; I figure some can be broken out and made its own thing.
Agents, In-Game (Argent, DEMON, Hunter-Patriot, VIPER).
Apes
In-game
Athletes (if you add an Athletics costume set)
Bad Girls (okay, I know, I'm asking for trouble with this one.)
Bodybuilders
Cyborgs
Egyptians
Fake Cops
Fallen Angels
Gangs, In-game (any of the West Side gangs)
Gladiators
Luchadores
Martial Artists
Medieval Knights
Men in Black
Mind Controlled Normals (Use everyday clothing costume sets)
Numbered Goons (you've all seen a certain 60s TV series)
Power Armored Goons
Pulp Cultists (Given that these are often Arabic, Asian or East Indian looking folks, this also has the possibility to be insensitive. But it's a genre staple.)
Swashbucklers
Vikings
(b) Minion Lieutenant.
Insert name. This guy is a Tough version of the Villain in your minion set and might get mutated or turned into a supervillain in one of the nemesis missions. You should also get to choose their gender.
(c) Name for Faction
As an alternate for "nemesis minion", you should get a chance to name the Nemesis's faction.
C. TEXT FIELDS/MOTIVATIONS:
These willl include a default text string that can be ovewritten by the player, if the player wishes.
(a) Derogatory Nickname for Hero:
Insert a text field.
(b) Favorite expression/catchphrase:
Insert a text field.
(c) Source of conflict between the hero and nemesis (insert a text field):
Nemesis: "I hate you because you..." (fill in the blank).
(d) What the nemesis wants to do to the hero:
Nemesis: "Do you know what I'm going to do to you? In the end I'm going to..." (fill in the blank)
(e) Your nemesis's confrontation dialogue, which he says when he first notices you in a scenario:
Nemesis: Insert a text field.
(f) Your nemesis's favorite taunt, which he says when he's winning a fight:
Nemesis: Insert a text field.
(g) What your nemesis when he's losing and about to run away:
Nemesis: Insert a text field.
D. LAIR
You should give each Nemesis his own lair, so you can run a "raid the villain's lair" scenario. The lair is selected from a drop down menu and includes:
(a) Corporate Office
(b) Warehouse
(c) High-tech lab
(d) Mystical sanctum
(e) Mansion.
(f) Martial arts dojo.
(g) Caves
(h) Sewers
E. COMBAT ADVANTAGE
You get the option to make a nemesis nastier.
(a) Brutal: +30% damage bonus to all attacks
(b) Indomitable: +30% bonus to hit points
(c) Mega-Attack: +50% damage bonus to all Tier III and IV attacks
(d) Find Weakness: +50% bonus to all debuffs
(e) Dangerous: +20% bonus to hit points. all debuffs, buffs, and damage bonus to all attacks.
(e) Indefatiguable: +30% energy regeneration
(f) Resilient: +30% hit point regeneration.
(g) Versatile (select a secondary power set for the guy.)
(h) None.
F. SUPERGROUP
At level 40, a Leader (ie. any member at Rank 1 or 2 of a SG) can create a new type of Nemesis: the Supergroup nemesis.
The nemesis database will have a new section: the Supergroup nemesis. These nemeses are created specifically to fight a five person team and provide team and SG content. (If you could scale teams up to ten players, even better, but I suspect that would be *major* work.) Once per day, the supergroup will be able to run a Supergroup Nemesis mission. The Leader can choose the nemesis from the database and one of five missions, then click on a button to implement them.
(a) Attack the hero's base (when bases are added to the game; otherwise, retake Champions HQ from the villain when he's attacked it while the Champs are away.)
(b) Keep the supergroup nemesis from freeing random SG nemeses from prison.
(c) Attack the enemy's lair.
(d) Follow the leader. The nemesis calls out the leader of your team to face him alone on a secluded island. Of course, you're not going to let the leader do that, are you?
(e) Save a member of a team (one randomly chosen from the SG who's not on the team) from a deathtrap.
When all five Supergroup missions have been run with a SG nemesis, the leader will have the option of creating a new SG nemesis. The SG nemesis database will also contain the existing nemeses of every supergroup member. These nemeses may be selected and elevated to SG status. SG nemeses are boosted to be able to face a team of 5 heroes. (ie. 10x Health, triple strength attacks and debuffs, etc.)
There will be special perks for participating in SG nemesis missions and a lot of nemesis points.
As always, great suggestions!
They definitely go a long way towards making the nemesis system both a) more flexible and b) feel more like a nemesis system.
The thing about CO's nemeses is that technically they aren't.
Aren't?
They aren't actually nemeses. The PC is the nemesis' nemesis, if you want, But the nemesis is NOT the sworn enemy of the player character. The nemesis just wants to take over the world.
He -doesn't- have a grudge against the PC.
That's often the case, I find, in these kinds of stories. Players like to -think- of X as Y's nemesis, but really, Dr. Evil doesn't want to kill Austin Powers. He wants to take over the world, and if Powers would stop getting in his way, he'd have no problem with him.
Of course players don't like that, because they dream up grudges and feuds and all that kind of thing.
And the current nemesis system doesn't support it at all.
What I find interesting is that Cryptic themselves couldn't decide which way they wanted to go - The missions are generic "Take over the world" missions and Captain Martin's initial text doesn't say "Enter details about your most hated rival nemesis", he says "Tell us about one of the supervillains I'm sure you've fought before."
but then mission dialogues most obviously have you and the Nem as rivals, and it's advertised as "Your Nemesis", your arch-rival..
There's a real sense of schizophrenia in both the writing and mission design, a disconnect, I think, between the different teams at cryptic that worked on the different parts of the system.
One small addition I would add is the ability to have more than one active Nemesis at a time.
But, Nemesis type should actually be called Nemesis MO (or modus operendai). Sounds cooler. Also I think that the Nem Personality slider and Nem MO could and should coexist.
Most of this is my April 2010 work, with a few new nemesis types added, the text fields smoothed out, the minion list revised, and the supergroup nemesis greatly expanded on. I honestly don't remember if I'd seen suggestions from you at the time. Let's call them independently developed works of genius, like calculus.
so, /signed.
However I really have to disagree on the minion thing. Minions are visually* at least as important as the main bad guy. Probably more so since you see them substantially more. It's especially important because there is, quite simply, no adequate way for Cryptic to create enough minion variety for players to ever be genuinely happy; while just giving them the reigns allows for a lot more creativity.
Basically I just think the Nemesis system would be immensely improved with custom minions. (Course, I'd also like custom pets and sidekicks.)
Everything else though looks pretty good; I'll look over it in-depth late when I have more time; but you're hitting most of the nails I want hit >.> so that's good!
*Or ideally, minions who you can choose powers for - with the caveat that you MUST fulfill certain criteria; so you can't make them wimptacular. I dislike the current set up because very often I find they aren't using the powers I want them to. For example; when I pick Military Weapons - I expect bullets; but get lasers. At least that's how it was last I tried.
*applauds
But as you know, it will never happen
I wouldn't be so pessimistic. Poz has said it's on the radar. Unfortunately, revamping one system, even one as foundational as Nemmies, may not be at the top of the priority list when it comes to new content.
One other minion type that I think might be interesting would be stealth tech spy types. I'm thinking along the lines of the G22 soldiers in Alpha Protocol. Dark military uniforms with goggle helmets that glow.
God, i really need some nemesis' upgrade.
I would love to see the nemesis system get a huge upgrade. We all want new content, of course, but new content envolving nemeses (whether our own or our friends / SG mates'), would be double win imo.
Thank you.
I hate having a mystical nem building a deathray.
Also, would you be able to fit this into your idea?
The option to make a nemesis part of a villian supergroup (with choice of name for the group).
I've had a villian organization concept I've been working on for a while, and if I had the option to set a bunch of regular nemesis as "minions" and a supergroup nemesis as the organization leader above all of them, that would be very, very awesome. To name one thing, it really breaks things if all the "minions" talk about themselves like they're the leader of everything. x_x;
I'd love to see the nemesis system reworked. Even if some of the above mentioned options were Atari Token unlocks.
Personally, the one group of minions I'd dearly like to see added is a tech soldier. Something similar to Viper or Argent. I'd also like the option of having a Nemesis who doesn't use minions at all, which could maybe be tied to the type (brute/savage, for instance).
I actually like the cookie cutter minions, because it's nice to have ones you can drop into the game quickly. I know they turn up frequently, and it's important to have good visuals for them -- but there is a virtue in not having to niggle over every detail and get back to the game relatively quickly. I also think that it takes away from the nemesis's specialness if you get to craft both his/her look and the minions' as well. Generic, faceless goons are part of the genre.
That said, some people *really* like niggling and customization is one of this game's great strengths. What might be nice, therefore, would be an option for "Custom" in the minion editor, in *addition* to the ones provided. This way people like me get what we want: a quick and painless way to add minions, and you nigglers get what you want.
And Cryptic can make it Premium content and make a mint! Wait a minute, why are you all unsigning from the thread...
(More seriously, customizable minions could easily be a Gold feature; depending on how much data's required to store the info, it might be wise not to let the larger population of Silvers use be able to do this.)
I'm hoping this sort of thing will be possible when (*fingers crossed*) we get a UGC system working for this game. I want to be able to use our nemesi if I get to create my own scenarios.
They have so much on the radar. The only thing we'll get is Adeventure Packs and new Powers. If they keep the same pace with SYSTEM Updates (Nemesis, Crafting, Items etc) like in COX, we'll get it maybe in 1,5 years
One example would be the villain I wish I could make, who's the leader of an organization and so has access to all of the different "powersets" available to the organization. (Sure, I could always make it so that for each appearance of the character, I switch the powerset at the nemesis database, but they're supposed to be able to switch during battles. >_>; )
Although, something like this may have already been brought up.
You can't use weapon unlocks for them?!
Absolutely fantastic suggestions. I already consider the Nemesis feature to be the best thing CO brought to the table, and would love to see even a fraction of those implemented. Screw adventure packs, more and more Nemesis content instead!
You can, but the way to do it is a bit roundabout.
Make a character that can use the weapon type in question and is the same gender as the nemesis you want, go to the tailor, make the nemesis costume (including selecting the weapon you want), save it, leave the tailor, go the nemesis terminal, create the nemesis, load the costume, and finish creating the nemesis.
This would be the kind of villain who announces his crimes via TV broadcast or having his minions leave tapes around.
The missions would not be so psycho evil as the regular ones and could include things like..
Putting super nemesis dope into the city's water filtration plant so that all citizens and crime fighters would be too laid back/zonked out to stop him/her from pinching all the gold in MC central bank.
Orbital Mind control lasers to reprogram MC's guardians to do evil meaning they come after you - and of course a fab battle in zero G as you try to stop him.
A time freeze ray which you are immune to thanks to an earlier mission and you battle minions and nemesis in a statuified section of the city.
Captured by Nem - find your way out of my Death Maze kinda thing. Corridors of Doom perhaps?
A stupid (looking) weapons set for minions based on Foxbats arsenal maybe.
A sidekick male or female for Nemesis as well as minions.
Heck what's wrong with a bit of light relief dynamic duo sort of stuff after a trip to Vibora Bay? Should be room for all kinds of villains/heroes including the completely unrealistic.
I liked the idea of a more-fully customizable Nemesis, & in fact was a little disappointed in some of the options (or lack there of) for when I was first creating mine. The two parts I was disappointed that i would like to see worked on: lack of mannerisms (Maniac, Brute, Genius) & Henchmen.
I like the ideas you have for new ones, but I have a suggestion to add: mix em. Sometimes, a villain isn't dangerous because he's just crazy. If you really want dangerous, mix Maniac with Genius or something a little more devious and creative. Because the way i envision some of my Nemesis' is not just one or the other but a bit of both. It could make for some interesting missions & plots & role-playing (if youre more into that).
As for henchmen, I like the idea of some more maleable henchmen. When it comes to appearance, even just a swappable body-part or two for more unique & interesting henchman types. Especially if you can make a mix of sorts with elements crossing genres, like a beast/demon with a robot arm/leg, or similarly a cyborg-soldier or cyborg-ninja (every little kids' dream).
But when it comes to Henchman powers, give a couple options per rank, &/or the option to "mix" powers, so the battle can feel a little more than cookie-cutter tactics. Even if you can just choose certain archetypes that have broad meaning to give each rank a different feel.
Henchman power options:
--soldier (melee= sword claws or brawl, ranged= artillery archery); --mystic/elementals (fire ice dark light); --demonic; --demonic-mystic; --or cultic-gang where some have powers and others need to carry a gun or weapon (endless possibilities); --similarly Meta-Human, since in a lot of comic-books and comic-lore-based entertainment show some metahumans/powered beings carrying weapons alongside powers or to focus powers; --techno-soldiers (lightning-guns, fire/energy-swords, flamethrowers, etc)
So while henchman-melee has a flame-sword or plain axe, villain-melee has short range flamethrower or electric-mace, and while henchman-range has a flaming-bow-arrow or just a normal pistol, villain-range carries a lightning-gun. In appearance, instead of all robot-minions being humanoid, make one more like a drone or tank-like qualities; or instead of just white demons, give one a robo-arm, one normal, one with [insert something cool here], etc; and maybe its not a robotic rebellion, maybe there are human/cyborg commanders leading robot soldiers or robot tacticians leading cyborg cannon-fodder. Mix up the cannon-fodder selctions, and mix-up the ranks. With the custom Nemesis even more custom, it should keep people even more entranced (especially those with creative minds).
To sum up a Genius is not just evil but also lost his mind/grip on reality, leading a legion of alien-cyborgs leading demonic entities and attack-hounds bent on assimilation/annihilation of universe is cooler than a genius who built some cookie-cutter humanoid-robots.
To re-sum-up: if someone likes to be more creative in their playing, it can be more entertaining if given the option to BE creative and not plain-cookie-cutter yawning boring half-done "full-custom" Nemesis.
At least give advanced options to those who want them.
I would also like to add a suggestion:For the brutish nemesis or similar,the nemesis will attack you out of no where,like in the nemesis trailer.
Types
Instead of a longer list of Nemesis Types, I'd provide more ways to specify type. For instance: choose whether your Nemesis uses Arms, Science, or Mysticism (his Focus). Unlike your choice of Personality, this would have a pervasive impact on what sorts of Nemesis Missions you get, and/or what the Missions are like: even the introductory mission should be tailored according to this choice. If I want a Savage nemesis who is hell-bent on building a Death-Ray, that should be an option. Personality is still relegated to controlling dialog; as such, your "text fields" proposal becomes an extension of Personality.
Power Selection
Instead of or in addition to the existing "choose a Power Set" options, you should be able to select an Archetype for your Nemesis ("Instead of" becomes a much more palatable option as the selection of Archetypes increases). This should not be restricted by your account: a Silver hero who only has access to the basic eight Archetypes should still be able to select, say, Specialist as his Nemesis' Archetype.
As well, you should be able to select a Travel Power for your Nemesis; and every Travel Power should be available to him, not just the ones that are available to you.
Costumes
Again, your Nemesis should have full run of the costuming options, even if you don't. As well, there should be a few additional postures and/or moods for the Nemesis: things like letting him sneer or smirk, or giving him an arrogant swagger when he walks.
Minions
I disagree with your position on full minion designs. At a minimum, let the player select a pair of colors and an emblem, as he would when creating a Supergroup; then integrate these colors and emblems into the Minion costumes. Better would be to supplement the existing Minion Types with a "Freeform Minions" option that allows the player to design the appearances of each of the four minions.
Missions
There should be multiple Starting Missions, with at least one for each nemesis type. In your proposal, that would mean that each of the Rampaging Brute, the Psychotic, the Mystical Mastermind, the Scientific Mastermind, the Crimelord, and so on would have his or her own Starting Mission. In my proposal, it would either be one Starting Mission for each of Arms, Mysticism, and Science or one for each combination of Personality and Focus. Once you've fought a Nemesis of a particular type, you'll never get that Starting Mission again; subsequent Nemeses of that type will start out with a generic "introduce your Nemesis" mission just like all subsequent Nemeses do now (though I'd prefer something other than a jailbreak). But if your new Nemesis is of a different type than any that you've fought before, you'll go through that type's Starting Mission instead of dealing with a prison breakout.
Likewise with the Final Mission. Ideally, the Final Mission will include some sort of random element in it: line up three or four possible surprises that he might have in store for you, and pick one when you get to that point in the mission. One possibility would be "triplicate me!", either through science, sorcery, or stunt doubles; another might be "supersize me!" where the Nemesis triples in height and gets massive boosts in power. Maybe he starts fighting dirty, nailing you with a debuff that doesn't go away until he's defeated or you can get to a certain console and either wreck it or activate it. Whatever it is, it should be such that you don't know which challenge you're going to face when you get to the final stage.
There should also be some "popcorn" missions that feature your Nemesis as well as or instead of his Minions. Likewise, some of the Bank Robberies that sporadically occur should be conducted by your Nemesis, if you're due for a Nemesis Clue; foil the bank robbery to acquire the Clue. You could do something similar with the citizens-in-need system: if you're due for a Nemesis Clue, a concerned citizen might approach you with a Nemesis Mission instead of a Help a Citizen mission; or you might be able to get one by freeing citizens who are being harassed. This way, you can at least have the illusion of being able to hunt down your Nemesis instead of having to cruise around waiting for his Minions to strike.
From this day forward, I'll log into the game, and see the Nemesis system, and see how much better it could be if your version were used.
And I guess it'll be a while till something like this is implemented. So thanks for ruining my fun in the meantime.
Bah.
(Kidding of course. Awesome suggestions!)
/signed
Unfortunately, waiting for content in CO is an exercise in patience. Awhile back, the devs talked about doing adventure packs incorporating nemmies; let's hope that this gets ported into one or more of the comic series, that may tide us over until a nemmy reboot can make its way to the top of the list (or UGC allows us to design nemesis missions and Cryptic polishes and incorporates the best of them into new nemesis chains).
/Signed.
I don't really have anything more to say, sadly. Hope Cryptic notices this one; it might help them along the way *if* they decide to ever revamp the Nemesis System (aside from the new, and very simple, "jump you in missions zones!" thing that seems to have appeared)
I just put a thread out about Nem improvements, very sparsly detailed compared to this, some fantastic ideas.
/Signed again!
To me the is the next issue cryptic needs to face,also if crytptic is going to world so hard on revamping the system,let it be a gold member only system.This system is so close to being amazing and it you just added a bit more I bet you would a lot of new gold member because of it.