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I just don't know if they can survive
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Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
I just don't see City of Heroes and DC Universe Online surviving. Champions Online is a far better game then City of Heroes in every sense (expect you can play villains). DC Online won't be a real MMO (No monthly fee). Sure you can play villains but its just a shooter game in tights.
I just don't see any competition for Champions Online.
I just don't see any competition for Champions Online.
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HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! No, really. Thousand monkeys, typewriter .
The Guild Wars model has proven successful and Guild Wars 2 is on the way and it is one of the most anticipated MMO's currently.
DCUO seems to be going with the Guild Wars model. Free to play with several expansions.
In the end DCUO's success or failure is unkown.
What is known is that CO isn't doing that well at the moment. People have ran out of things to do, not all maybe but enough for it to be a problem. This is the largest problem CO faces right now. There are other issues with the game, but this is the biggest. Casually the game can be completed in a few weeks. First part of this that should throw up warning flags is the fact that I said COMPLETED in a few weeks, thats a console game not an MMO. The second part that should throw up warning flags is the fact that it can be done CASUALLY.
If CO gets it's act together and irons out the problems and gets a good bit of content in before DCUO comes out then IP might not matter much at all if at all. CO has to be the better game to compete with the IP and the Guild Wars Model.
If CO can't get the content in before DCUO comes out and can't get the other problems resolved.......... well it really won't matter about IP then either because CO is already bleeding subs.
Then there's people like me who maintain City of Heroes accounts despite playing Champions Online. Simply put, I want for there to be competition. City of Heroes had the player base SCREAMING for years to implement colorable powers. They eventually got it, but only after Champions Online was released. That's only the start. Both games will come up with features that the other will have the players screaming for.
Competition is good. It means they can't get complacent and ignore the player demands on the basis that they're the only game of that genre in town.
As to DCUO. Both COH and CO are Cryptic games. Cryptic is the only company to ever make a profitable superhero game for the PC. DC and Marvel have tried many times, and failed...
every...
single...
time...
You beat me to it. Your right it worked for Guild Wars just fine. I actually enjoyed that game, teaming up for missions was not only encouraged it was very beneficial. I also agree that once DC online launches and Star Wars: The Old Republic, CO will be against some very stiff competition. Hopefully CO will be able to iron out some of their main problems prior to this.
Expansions over years, which means it will be good for about a month. Never the less Its still a first person shooter.
If you don't think CO will have way more content the DCUO in a year then you should leave now. Your crazy train about to leave.
Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black? There are a million 40's in CO and we're what, 30 days in? If We can't criticize CO for lacking content at release, don't even try to do it to a game that's a ways off.
I'm sure it will do fine numberwise (if not profitwise) because its free. But they're not really aiming for the market that plays CO/CoH.
Please give me examples of DC and Marvel games for the PC, I have never seen one. That's news to me.
Umm.... CO is also considered a Massive Multiplayer Action Game and the console playstyle focus in CO is pretty heavy..................
Do keep in mind that CO was developed for the 360 as well as the PC. This is the main reason why the 360 controller is pretty much plug and play with CO.
I agree there not aiming at the market playing CoH.......... but CO I am not so sure about.
Sorry but CO is billed as.... *ahem* The First True Action MMORPG
Do you notice the difference between that and 'Massively Multiplayer Action Game?' or does it require more explanation?
The difference is CO will have that fix this month. It will take DCUO 8 to 12 months to add more stuff.
A bit of refference for you............ CO was originally Marvel's MMO. They bailed on it and a representative from Microsoft said it was because it would be unable to compete in the current MMO market. The game wasn't even finished.......... so what did Cryptic do? They took the Marvel MMO that wasn't even finished and spent 18 months basically reskinning it.
Marvel signed on with another Developer to make there MMO.
So this in essence is the Marvel MMO without the Marvel lol.
As for Cryptic being the only company to create a profitable Super Hero MMO, you are correct as Cryptic is the only one I know of that has made a Super Hero MMO.
DC's first MMO attempt is DCUO, Marvels first attempt was with Cryptic but....... seems they didn't have faith in Cryptic.
Just saying lol.
The GW model works for GW because of the way the game instances ( Not just the instancing, but the way it's handled ). Very little demand is put on the servers, therefore the game doesn't require even remotely as much to run as a traditional MMO. It is because of how the instancing works, by the way, that GW isn't considered a real MMO even by its own creators.
Need more explanation sorry. I mean if you are refferencing the RPG part........ don't even go there lol. Otherwise please explain the difference for me.
If you played CB at all, you wouldn't say that they spent 18 months just "basically reskinning it"...
and like others i still keep playing COX (and i have a lifetime subscription here )
4-5 years is the average MMO development time. CO was in development for 18 months. That isn't a great deal of time to develop much of anything. So while some stuff may have changed as things tend to do in beta's the game is essentially what they developed for Marvel with a new skin. Unless you are saying 18 months is enough development time.
Spiderman 2 had a (*******ized) PC version. I don't know what the bloody hell they did to it though.
There was a PC release of Marvel Nemesis.
X men legends 1 and 2 were available on PC
um... can't name any DC ones off the top of my head though
Indeed the 'Roleplay 'part. DC purposely divorced themselves from that aspect of these types of games. That gives it a heavier console focus than CO that keeps those elements. Which means to me it will feel more like playing Marvel Ultimate Alliance with a Costume creator.
Like I said they're purposely shooting for a broader, yet shallower market than the MMORPG crowd. Which will make playing it pretty painful to say the least.
Whew, thanks for clearing that up.
They can bill it anything they like. It doesn't make it so.
No, I'm saying that more changed in 18 months, FAR more, than just the "skin".
Kinda Funny my impression was that Marvel didn't have faith in Microsoft and not Cryptic.
What RPG elements does CO have that DCUO will not?
Then it's "product support", "developed by a company that isn't shatbit crazy", and "worth a pile of spent uranium rods"...in that order.
Anyone else seeing the mega levels of irony in this post? :rolleyes:
I see what I'm saying is eluding you. I'm talking Marketing focus. Target Audience.
Anyway, you did notice in the quote you picked that they listed a single player console game for main inspiration? Also it did not list the true key elements to RPGs like...socializing and actual Roleplay. Diablo is a roleplaying game by their definition. Because you level. And have stuff.
I'm not saying CO is overwhelming in these aspects, just that the definition you quoted and mine vary somewhat.
Funny yet sad because its true.
So when you fail at bashing the game switch to the company?
Sorry currently I don't view Cryptic in any better light than I view SOE.
CO is fun, it's an MMO action game. The combat is fast paced and fun, kind of like AoC's. The lack of content hurt though, and there is a severe lack of content. The fact that they tried to fix this by slowing down the pace of the game didn't do any body any good. The constant large sweeping changes aren't helping either.
CO at it's core is fun and I hope Cryptic can get there act together because the fun is there even if it's slightly stunted and hidden right now.
Bashing DCUO for the same things that CO is doing or bashing SOE for the same things that Cryptic is doing doesn't really do anyone any good lol.
It's survivability hinges on if it can fix the anti teaming state of the game, the severe lack of content and so on and so on.
No I don't. Will CO have more content then DCUO in a year? Yes. WIll DCUO have as much content as CO when it came out, when DCUO comes out? Probable! Will it be a sucky first person shooter? YES!
CO is a single player MMO............................ the socializing and actual Roleplay in CO is hindered because of the games design. I mean lol seriously you want to throw role play in the mix here? How is Gronds comments and Foxbat helping you out in that role playing? Are you role playing MMO players?
CO has focused on the same things that DCUO is focusing on. The action and not so much the RPG side.
In CO it is only a roleplaying game because you level and have stuff.
So you will have to explain what CO has that makes it an RPG and why DCUO will not be. I will be waiting.
Slowing down the pace of the game wasn't a fix for lack of Content. It was a fix for going to fast through the game. The game has exactly enough content to go through, if you don't skip missions. The constant large sweeping changes are keeping just as many people here. I would of gave up the game if it continued to be to easy like it was.
Since one is an obvious and easy fix and anyone with half a brain knows this. The teaming issue is something they are working on and hopefully will have a fix by the end of this month if not sooner. There really isn't any other stuff to fix other then balance. That takes minium a year.
Reread my first line in the last post.
There are none because they have always been shut down during development due to a fear of losing money.
Having just enough content is not enough content for an MMO............ no other MMO that I have EVER played allowed me to reach the end in a matter of weeks at a casual pace in which I did ALL of the content. Even at launch...............
Saying that slowing down the pace was not a fix to the lack of content followed by it was a fix to people leveling to fast.................. makes me all googly eyed oO.
In any case the lack of content, yes it has been obvious to those in CB from what I have heard, OB from what I observed, and even today and is something that has been repeatedly said to Cryptic........ it hasn't been that obvious to Cryptic though which is the problem.
Now that many have already left and given up teaming may be fixed, pardon me if I don't jump for joy. It's good that they will finally address the issue.
Balance may take a year for a class based MMO, but in a skill based especially when you aren't seperating PvP and PvE in the changes by some means you are looking at a constant war against balance lol. So I wouldn't be to optimistic about that balance being fixed in a year.
So in other words you can't think of anything that CO has RPG wise that DCUO will not. Thats all you had to say.
*eyeroll* Wrong. What I've been saying all along is that DCUO is targeting an entirely different market than an 'MMORPG' by specifically labeling it differently. Which has a huge factor in who will actually be playing that game.
What you keep going on about has nothing at all to do with what I'm saying. The main thing that CO will have RPwise is its playerbase.
As to the amount of content, no one is saying it is not enough the dev's have said it is not enough. I would think they have coders working on bugs, and content people working on content, but why spoil it for us, beyond the coming event, which I thought they said would have content that stays after the event. But even it it does not it buys them another month to put in more permanent content. Unless they plan on a Thanksgiving Event as well. LOL But hopefully more permanent content is being build along side the event content.
As someone else has said compantention is good. Look how many fantasy games are out there and surviving. The Super Hero MMO is here to stay and a couple more will not hurt CO I think. Besides with the way the server is done, they can remove as many "shards" as they need and never have to make the death statement "We are doing server merges." That right there is genius.
Like I said for now. I am sorry but EVERY MMO is like this. I consider myself a Above casual player and I still haven't gotten to 40. Casual players don't worry about running out of content. Now if they skipped some missions which lead to other missions they do. Which seems to be what is happening to most people.
Actually for us in Closed beta it wasn't a problem since XP was about twice as much as it was in Closed Beta.
I have seen a lot of people have hatred for this game for no reason other then to be a troll. If you A LOT of people that was on here were just trolls. A lot of the other people just didn't have a good enough computer. I had one guy argue with me that his computer runs WoW and it had better graphics (I know some people are that stupid) and Champions Online should run on his computer. I understand some people don't like the game. From my friends 4 out of 5 say Champions Online is SO much better. One stayed back with CoH and Age of Conan.
EDIT
I personally I think it will take more then a year. In most games it takes more then a year. This will take longer then most games.
The guild wars model works for Guild Wars and GW2 looks awesome, i reckon it will be great cause theyve taken years quietly crating it behind closed doors with little hype.
DCUO is being run by SOE which means it will suck, even if the game is awesome SOE will suck the life out of it and ruin it, guaranteed.
That of course doesnt mean CO will be an amazing success either, but DCUO will suck mark my words.
City of Heroes belongs to NC/Soft now as it was sold a long time ago, I do believe. At best, City of Heroes can be considered a moderate success. In cryptics 9 year history, if this it all it can point to... well you draw your own conclusion.
As to CO, I believe the Jury is still out. As the OP mentioned, they are hemorraging subs big time, but I if they can get their act together ASAP, then I think the game can still be salvaged, otherwise it will go by the way of Hellgate/London.
That of course doesnt mean CO will be an amazing success either, but DCUO will suck mark my words.[/QUOTE]
Well I have been following DC on line since day one. I haven't seen anything to suggest anything about whether it will suck or not. It's stil in pre Alpha isn't it? They can remodel the entire game almost between now and launch if they want to. Also, for those who are talking about content, DC has been in developement a lot longer than Champions was and release isn't in sight yet.
I don't understand the non fee paying funding base. I don't know if that will be good or bad.
What I do know is that if, against all the expectations on these boards, DC online IS an immersive MMO, it will wipe CO and CoH off the map.
It's like playing a a football (sorry to americans) MMO that has made up teams, then suddenly a developer announces you can play in the "real" pemier league. The first game won't get a look in.
DCs brand is a thousand or more times as strong as Champions pen and pencil.
For what? the how to not laucnh a mmo award? or the 'how to turn a fun and great mmo into a tedious 1 build a thon award'?
I have been watching it from the very start also.
It still will be a First person shooter so it will still suck. If it doesn't have monthly charges and go only microtransactions it will get an update once a year. It will suck. DCUO will be about the DCU. Champions Online is more about your own character.
DC has a lot more fans then Champions PnP games, yes. That doesn't change how the game will be. So far its not shaping up very well for DCUO.
Totally agree with you.
Content is CO's greatest problem right now...im finding my logged-in time getting lesser each day
Theres nothing to keep me hooked in playing my lv40 toon right now..
Creating alts and trying new powers is fun for only awhile.. when you realize you are repeating the same missions.
Blood moon is coming out, i truely hope Cryptic delivers big on that one.
Hmm - our other conversation is starting to make a bit more sense now.
The Marvel MMO was pulled NOT because it couldn't compete - but because they wanted WoW numbers, and nothing less would do. This was alluded to in a statement made by Microsoft: "And if you really look at the data there's basically one that's successful and everything else wouldn't meet our level or definition of commercial success."
Let's also not forget that Marvel would have been a Vista and 360 ONLY title - and with people avoiding Vista in preference of either keeping XP or going to Win 7, the writing was on the wall - they had made a huge mistake, and instead of fixing that mistake, they just stopped altogether.
It had NOTHING to do with "faith" in Cryptic at all.
DC:
Batman (1989)
Batman Forever
Batman Forever: The Arcade Game
Batman Returns
Batman Vengeance
Batman: Arkham Asylum
Batman: The Caped Crusader (1988)
Catwoman
Lego Batman: The Video Game
Watchmen: The End is Nigh (PC Download)
Marvel:
The Amazing Spider-Man (DOS baby!)
Incredible Hulk: The Pantheon Saga (DOS again!)
The Hulk (2003)
The Incredible Hulk (2008)
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
The Punisher (1990 DOS yet again!)
The Punisher (2005)
Spider-Man (2000)
Spider-Man and Captain America in Doctor Doom's Revenge
Spider-Man Cartoon Maker
Spider-Man 2
Ultimate Spider-Man
X-Men: The Official Game
Yeah, but it's not Marvel now, is it? As for why Marvel Online was canceled, I'm not going to pretend to know. Neither should you. As I understand it, the situation was a lot more nuanced and complicated than simply Marvel telling Cryptic "U SUCK!" If Marvel thought that, they wouldn't have approached Cryptic in the first place, nor would they have felt threatened enough by Cryptic to file two lawsuits over CoH and then turn around and try to publish a comic called "City of Heroes" thereby ending up sued by Cryptic.
it's been a long day at work so far... i THINK i agree with you, as your post sounds to have no faith in the bastiches at soe.