test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Why mass pulling is more efficient in alerts and other content, and why tanks are awesome in alerts.
spinnytop
Posts: 16,450 Arc User
Ever feel like your tank or healer isn't very useful in alerts? Feel like maybe there's some extra potential you're not utilizing? That's because you're not mass-pulling, and not fully utilizing your survival ability to its fullest.
Mass-pulling means pulling as many NPCs at once as possible - all the ones in the current zone if you can manage it. Doing this is the optimal way to run alerts because of one simple reality: It ensures that everyone's aoes are hitting the max number of targets for longer.
Taking groups one by one means that for part of that fight, often a significant duration, aoes will be hitting less than 5 targets. This is because many of the NPCs are defeated within mere seconds, generally leaving less than 5. On the other hand, if you've already pulled 20+ targets, it means you have quite a few NPCs to burn through before you won't be hitting 5 targets.
So, next time you run an alert or really any content where there's a bunch of NPCs, figure out how many you can pull and keep aggro'd, and then always do that from now on. You'll be helping everyone around you play more optimally o3o7
Mass-pulling means pulling as many NPCs at once as possible - all the ones in the current zone if you can manage it. Doing this is the optimal way to run alerts because of one simple reality: It ensures that everyone's aoes are hitting the max number of targets for longer.
Taking groups one by one means that for part of that fight, often a significant duration, aoes will be hitting less than 5 targets. This is because many of the NPCs are defeated within mere seconds, generally leaving less than 5. On the other hand, if you've already pulled 20+ targets, it means you have quite a few NPCs to burn through before you won't be hitting 5 targets.
So, next time you run an alert or really any content where there's a bunch of NPCs, figure out how many you can pull and keep aggro'd, and then always do that from now on. You'll be helping everyone around you play more optimally o3o7
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
In randoms it's better to clear one mob at a time just for basic consideration for the group, even if there's huge overall DPS. If you're the tank drawing all of the aggro all of the time you're already doing an upstanding job as a tank.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
That's actually a terrible idea. The fastest way to clear an alert is not having a tank, at all.. and single target spike damage, not aoe tickle me Elmo damage. Most tanks cannot hold aggro and if they lure a lot of mobs the DPS team members struggle to survive, especially when they're built for pure damage. Tanks are pretty much deadweights in my opinion, they're killing nothing while getting others killed. In premades, sure.. If slow alert farming floats your goat, more power to you.
Of course, if you are yourself the above healer and can survive the beating at least the threat aspect might not be an issue. Efficiency-wise there's certainly a cap due to the target limit.
Well yes, sometimes you have to sacrifice efficiency when dealing with inexperienced people. Of course the best way to find out what the group can handle is to just go ahead and try it and see what happens. Assuming the group can't hold their own doesn't make sense - we're super heroes after all!
In a premade of high performers it's actually more efficient if everybody splits up and solos groups. This is because with that much damage being thrown around players will be wasting a lot of potential damage on charged attacks that never hit, or rotations that were never completed. This is one of the reasons I often break off and solo groups in Grab alerts.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Yes I addressed the target cap of aoes and how it factors into this strategy. Specifically how aoes are at their most efficient when you're constantly hitting 5 targets.
As for people needing to move, the solution is actually fairly simple: pull everything to a central location instead of to the far end. Then the other party members can simply hang out near the ever-increasing pile of NPCs and aoe to their heart's content at peak efficiency.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Indeed, thanks for your input kernal o3o
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
What do you do when they steamroll the alert while you're leeching? o3o
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
People keep mentioning premades... do people make those for Grab alerts? I can't imagine anything more boring .-. just queue and go, rando party all the way! o/
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The thing your entire argument is missing is that pulling multiple groups takes time which you could be using to kill stuff, and builds capable of surviving that are usually high end builds that can also just do lots of damage.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
The instance is structured so that it's more efficient to go through each mob one at a time because the bombs are all spread out and next to each mob.
And if it's Bank, the instance doesn't exactly have a lot of free space to move about to kite mobs seamlessly to a single spot.
I just don't see any real benefit of effectiveness.
I explained the benefit. It's the thing where your aoes are at maximum efficiency more of the time
Also I said pull them to a central location. A corner is not a central location :P
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
In my experience most people don't stand there doing nothing in that situation. They follow along and help down stuff faster. So, I don't think your response is very accurate.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
What slog? :O
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Or does one person run to each bomb while all the mobs are kited to a single location by the rest? The trouble to go through that just so that all mobs can be hit by AoEs at once?
The issue with Bank is that you have long hallways and corners. The time used to kite all mobs to somewhere else could be better spent just clearing the mobs the old fashioned way.
Again not seeing any real point to justify supposed AoE efficiency.
That said, I think this idea sets a bad precedence. To me, an alert is a digestible instanced "mission" to be handled with teamwork from a group of five (be it a pre-made group or those that queue individually).
Now, I can understand a mindset that believes mass-pulling and following up with AoEs is, in fact, teamwork. In my mind, it isn't necessarily (teamwork), however, and I generally prefer to approach alerts with the implied "one at a time" intent.
At the end of the day I suppose it depends on just how capable the aggro holder is. I don't really desire maximum efficiency with my alerts and play a bit casually, I suppose!
Swords and Shields!
Plant Abilities!
You don't have to go to the bombs right away. You can do them after everything is blown up. It's actually most efficient that way, rather than trying to do them between pulls.
Bank is easy. You go into that first room, go to the right, grab that first group, hop through the doorway and aggro the second, then pop back into the first room and head to the left to grab that group. ezpz
Often when people have mastered content in video games, they then turn their efforts to trying to complete it in ever more efficient ways. Speedrunner kinda stuff. Not for everyone, I understand, and it doesn't have to be!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Why did you put teamwork in parenthesis here?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
I know your proposal tries to counteract them but it may cause more harm than good in the long run. We still have people in alerts who frequently don't pre-block for Baron's major tell when he's about to deflect everything...or Jack Fool's "Any Sharp Object" attack, or overestimate their ability and attract far more attention than can be handled effectively.
There's very little point doing this unless you know everyone can handle it. I'd say, stick to this method if your pre-made is all melee and tanky / benefits greatly from slicing up a crowd.
If NPC's did nothing but used rank 3 energy builder attacks, I could see this being optimal, but when you factor in NPC abilities, knocks, Crowd Control abilities, energy drains etc, at least in my opinion, it starts to punch a considerable hole in the idea.
Unless of course, you take a team into an alert, each with Gravity Driver / Mental Impact, Vorpal Blade, Unleashed Rage etc and just set them off all at once or something to wipe as much as you can...that could be fun, but again...benefits from pre-planning.
Not for Alert team ups (excluding Rad Rumble, go nuts in there IMO). You may just end up causing people to leave the alert. Then you'd be all by yourself, which is great if that's your intention with this.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
I was responding to someone who said they were going to stand around doing nothing. That's different from "not doing as much damage as another player".
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Who said anything about knockback?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Well like I pointed out, only way to find out if they can is to try. An unswung sword is never tested! Or you know something like that.
In all the years I've been doing this ( since I was a silver ) I can count the number of people who left an alert while I was doing this on my two hands, and we can't even be sure how many of them disappeared due to disconnecting. There have been just as many times at least where someone in the party said something positive about the experience (something along the lines of "wow" or "that was fast"). The other hundreds or whatever amount of runs everyone just quietly followed along and did big pew pew, with no qq.
There was one time, very early just after alerts had released, that everyone left and I was left alone in the alert - I had a blast finishing it myself. However, I wasn't on a tank and wasn't mass pulling so I guess that doesn't count - they all left because they were getting steamrolled by the mobs. It's definitely not the goal to make them all leave, and there's really no point to doing that - if I want the solo Grab experience, I get it by running off and soloing whatever groups the other four players currently aren't attacking. When I utilize this strategy, I'm actively pursuing a teamplay experience - this is fairly obvious from the fact that the primary goal of the strategy is maximizing other people's damage output.
So thank you for your concern, but I can assure you from years of experience that you can put those concerns to rest.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Wonderful... that bit wasn't saved and I failed to notice before hitting submit... glorious.
More importantly... I learned long ago that there was no point to asking people that were engaging in this behavior to stop or modify their behavior because of the 'just shut up and let me do me' mind set most of them have. Rarely have I seen even polite criticism from strangers be taken positively in this game. Usually the only ones the player will permit to criticize them are those they have predetermined as like minded and frequently regarded as friends. The rest of us that dare to complain are just regarded as whiners and frequently publicly belittled.
Only to reiterate that I was talking specifically about teamwork.
Swords and Shields!
Plant Abilities!
How so?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I don't see why you think this. In fact, it would actually be fairly difficult for the tank to only hit the same 5 mobs the entire fight. If you're standing in a group of 20 NPCs even a maintained aoe is likely to be hitting different targets on every tick of damage. On the other hand it's very easy to ensure that you're hitting the vast majority of mobs even in a large group, and if you do see some NPCs turning their attention to players the solution is simple - start hitting those NPCs.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Well, the whole thread is about teamwork, so I think you're good on that :P
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Smash alerts, known for their large numbers of npcs. Weird flex but ok.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
- You only have a single target.
- You have a high value target needs a high dps threshold to take down (such such as creatures that use healing or shielding).
- You can't handle the aggro from hitting more than one target.
Under any other situations, AoE will be faster, usually much faster, and maintains, because they are less prone to overdamage and disruption, are mostly preferable to charges. Turbo Warlord runs are usually things like Epidemic or Hurricane until the final fight.Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
>Using Single Targets on bunch of Mobs is considered "Faster"! I WOULD LOVE TO SEE YOU DO THAT IN WARLORD
>Marathoning SMASH alerts! SMASH ALERTS! The alerts which can be SPEEDRUNNED! Have low amount of mobs and primary completition goal to take down only the BOSS
Holy ****, the Rotting GALAXY BRAIN of bad takes and moon logic misiformation continues
This is simple math. How are you not getting this?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
THIS!
Stop pulling everything all around the map! That's just as bad as knocking mobs all over the map.
Melees usually can't hit, nevermind AOE, mobs that are chasing whoever has aggro when they're running all over.
=Pieces of Stuff=Knock Dead=Cruel Yule=Cremator=Toys from the Attic=
=Gnosis Arcanum=Twenty Seven=Kama D=Critic=Creep Freeze=
=Mangled Man=G.I. John Doe=2D.=Lung the punch drunk monk=
=By the sword=Scild Truma=Shadow Puppet=Lu-7=Erysichthon=
=Nimravid=Buzzard Kill=Lorenzini=Schema=
No part of this involves "pulling everything all over the map" and certainly has nothing in common with "knocking mobs all over the map". This strategy involves gathering NPCs up in one location, which means you don't have to move much at all to find new targets once your current ones go down. It actually produces the opposite result of what you're talking about, or at least that's what the case has been in my experience. When tanks gather everything up, I just sit there blasting into the crowd without moving at all, like shooting fish in a barrel.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Different things are fun for different people. ‾\_(ツ)_/‾
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Too often I see players separating the might/defiance trio and then the duo (duratok & ironclad) rather than gathering. Then we fail.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
Randoms: You decide that you take precedence over the rest of the team by pulling everything, be prepared to get flak and/or people quitting the instance. Personally I could give a crap unless the alert becomes more tedious than necessary, but it's still something to keep in mind.
(Would apply to grabs specifically)