Howl adv Suggestion

chaosdrgnz43

Just thinking of a way to make Howl viable. I realized that Howl and Mini Drive almost have the same cooldown. So how about a Reciprocating Gizmo-like adv for Howl? Howl will now turn enemies small as they cower in Fear while you grow Furious-ly.(In size. also Furious stack still sucks w/ Howl tho)

Of course, the growth effect WILL NOT STACK with Mini Drive's Reciprocating Gizmo adv for the sake of those Growth haters.

ls975

i mean, I kinda like howl vanilla, but maybe give it trauma(HoT gets stopped, heals are less effective, iirc) from busting eardrums, or something?

legendarylycan

burst eardrums wouldn't stop you from healing - either through your own means or outside sources

what it WOULD do is disorient you​​

spinnytop

Howl should do this:

When you howl you get the Feral Vigor buff which gives you 15% charge time reduction for 5 seconds.


Howl and go nuts, woo! \o/

lezard21

+1 this suggestion. Give Howl at least something to make it worthwhile.

gentlegiantvexx

+1

ls975

shadowfang240 wrote: »

burst eardrums wouldn't stop you from healing - either through your own means or outside sources

what it WOULD do is disorient you​​

There's not enough powers with Trauma though, imo. We need more Trauma Center!

aesica

spinnytop wrote: »

Howl should do this:

When you howl you get the Feral Vigor buff which gives you 15% charge time reduction for 5 seconds.


Howl and go nuts, woo! \o/

15% reduced charge time for 5 whole seconds? Jesus Christ, nobody needs that kind of power!

- - -

The way I see it, Howl exists in this sort of weird niche state as a group buff power, but it can't ever really be very good or it starts to feel mandatory in most cases. Maybe it just needs a full redesign. Personally, I'd make it into an active offense. That way, in addition to the aoe Fear and group Furious effects, it can buff the user in a more meaningful way.

spinnytop

aesica wrote: »

15% reduced charge time for 5 whole seconds? Jesus Christ, nobody needs that kind of power!

I'd think you were serious if I thought you knew how strong charge time reduction is o3o

Also howl isn't just a buff power, it's a debuffer and a crowd controller as well.

legendarylycan

15% CTR on a 2 second charge power, which is the average...that's what - 0.3 seconds off the charge time?​​

spinnytop

Ya. Say you have a 2 second charge power that deals 1000 damage with a 0.5 activate time, which is about 400 dps. Reduce that to a 1.7 charge time and that's 454 dps. A non-diminishable 13.5% dps increase. My suggestion might actually threaten to make howl mandatory for many dps builds since it'd amount to a short cooldown AO xD

aesica wrote: »

Jesus Christ, nobody needs that kind of power!

:3c

itsbrou

Or explode your bleeds as paranormal damage a-la conflagration.

spinnytop

gentlegiantvexx wrote: »

+1

ur big enough already! don't need you howling in rencen getting even bigger walkin around with your arms out all like "uhuhuhu look at how big I am with all my big body parts!" >:C

legendarylycan

puppers should not be above a certain size, yes​​

chaosdrgnz43

spinnytop wrote: »

Ya. Say you have a 2 second charge power that deals 1000 damage with a 0.5 activate time, which is about 400 dps. Reduce that to a 1.7 charge time and that's 454 dps. A non-diminishable 13.5% dps increase. My suggestion might actually threaten to make howl mandatory for many dps builds since it'd amount to a short cooldown AO xD

If I see a non-beastly looking toon using Howl solely because of dps optimization, I'm gonna shower them with disgust for breaking their theme.

And no, I don't consider a Vixen-like superhero to use Howl, even if they wield some animal spirit totem.

pantagruel01

spinnytop wrote: »

Ya. Say you have a 2 second charge power that deals 1000 damage with a 0.5 activate time, which is about 400 dps. Reduce that to a 1.7 charge time and that's 454 dps. A non-diminishable 13.5% dps increase. My suggestion might actually threaten to make howl mandatory for many dps builds since it'd amount to a short cooldown AO xD

For it to be no net benefit for a single character, a single use (0.83s IIRC) shouldn't save more than that charge time. If it's, say, -10% for 10s, on that power above (0.5+2) you can normally fire off 4 uses in 10s (4 x 2.5), with howl 4 uses is 10.03s (4x2.3 + 0.83).

The only real problem with howl as it exists currently is its cd is longer than the duration of a stack of the buff it grants. Reduce base cd and it's fine as is.

spinnytop

chaosdrgnz43 wrote: »

If I see a non-beastly looking toon using Howl solely because of dps optimization, I'm gonna shower them with disgust for breaking their theme.

And no, I don't consider a Vixen-like superhero to use Howl, even if they wield some animal spirit totem.

Anybody can howl. Don't be a howl elitist o3o

pantagruel01 wrote: »

For it to be no net benefit for a single character, a single use (0.83s IIRC) shouldn't save more than that charge time. If it's, say, -10% for 10s, on that power above (0.5+2) you can normally fire off 4 uses in 10s (4 x 2.5), with howl 4 uses is 10.03s (4x2.3 + 0.83).

I'm gonna venture a guess and say there's no way howl is getting the thing I suggested no matter how you massage the numbers.

aesica

spinnytop wrote: »

Ya. Say you have a 2 second charge power that deals 1000 damage with a 0.5 activate time, which is about 400 dps. Reduce that to a 1.7 charge time and that's 454 dps. A non-diminishable 13.5% dps increase. My suggestion might actually threaten to make howl mandatory for many dps builds since it'd amount to a short cooldown AO xD

aesica wrote: »

Jesus Christ, nobody needs that kind of power!

:3c

You're not really thinking about the average dps with Howl's proposed 5 whopping second uptime on a 30-ish* second cooldown. *I'm not in game right now and don't recall the exact cooldown, but 30 seconds seems about right.

Assuming a perfect vacuum, where you can spam your power 12 times (roughly 30 seconds for Howl to come off CD):

400 * 12 = 4800, 4800 / 12 = 400 // control value
454 * 2 + 400 * 10 = 4962, 4908 / 12 = 409 // assumes you can get 2 hasted casts off per howl
400 * 11 + 1000 = 5400, 5400 / 12 = 450 // throwing in half a sonic device hit instead of howl, with only 11 charges

Suddenly, that 15% charge speed bonus over 5 seconds doesn't really look all that impressive.

So yeah, just change howl into an actual AO and up its bonuses to be in line with other AOs. This makes Howl worth taking for doge people, but non-doge people won't feel obligated to take it obviously, as there's plenty of other AOs out there.​​

spinnytop

Sonic Device is a straight addition, not percentage based, which means it doesn't scale up your other damage just adds its own. It also doesn't scale with your Form stacks, so it's not a very good comparison.

My attack normally does between 8k-16k damage, and I fire off 3 of those in a 5 second period. That 15% charge time reduction takes me up to 4, which is an increase of at least 8k damage. Sonic Device on the other hand only contributes ~1400 damage.

At bleeding edge levels dps improvements are measured in tiny percentages. People who are really trying to max out their dps see a lot of potential in a 1% increase.

ls975

spinnytop wrote: »

chaosdrgnz43 wrote: »

If I see a non-beastly looking toon using Howl solely because of dps optimization, I'm gonna shower them with disgust for breaking their theme.

And no, I don't consider a Vixen-like superhero to use Howl, even if they wield some animal spirit totem.

Anybody can howl. Don't be a howl elitist o3o

I like to imagine howl is like a roar from one of Bloodborne's various Bosses, but that's just me. It even has a nice, angry animation imo.