I'm having a lot of fun! The only issue I have with it is the knockback on the top platform. 1 missed block = death is ok-ish in a cosmic fight but I find it to be a bit harsh for an alert, especially with the time it takes to get back to the team.
It's not "great", but it's pretty good. It's one of those missions that require communication, not just expecting people to know what to do. And the length is just enough that it isn't too much of a drag or too short that it's hardly challenging. I'd give it a 7 out of 10 and bump it to an 8 simply because it does something with the Nemesis material in the game.
The new alert is terrible. It has too many annoying mechanics, the endless spawn of minions is a horrible design. Most of the pugs I've been in so far have barely made it past the first room, others haven't made it past the first ramp because as soon as you step into the room the entire thing aggros onto you. It's clear this alert was balanced around people wearing cosmic gear with r9 mods.
The rewards are pitiful considering the difficulty/risk. Three tokens, even the four from the patch notes, is far too low.
This is pretty much my opinion as well. This instance was clearly designed for either uber builds or premade groups with good communication. The enemies are too strong, for how many there are, so if you're in with lower level heroes, they're dead and then you're dead, or likely vice versa as you're putting out more threat. The map itself is a good design but there is too much going on from all the spam and pew pew, so by the time we were fighting the nemesis, they were out for a good minute or so before i'd even realized they were there.
I liked that we got a new alert, and i really enjoy that it's a nemesis, but having all of my current Nem currency wiped with no exchange in an **** move that i really don't like cryptic doing. "Hey, you know all that time and effort you've put it? Well, much like the rest of you, it means nothing to us, so we're putting you back at zero because of this one single mission." Not cool. If anything, i would like to see an update to the nemesis system as a whole, to justify that but if it's just going to be this one thing, then, i'm not okay with that decision.
If the mission weren't so clearly for the 10% of people who mathed the crap out of the game or just paid for the better gear and mods, it wouldn't be so bad. It needs to be balanced better for the kinds of groups you see most often in pug alerts. The sheer fact that it was released without any of the story stuff to explain what you're supposed to do, is also a lazy-**** move on cryptic's part but they've never really been known for releasing finished products, so that is to be expected. It's still lazy though.
As side note, I DO like that there are so many enemies, I just feel like they were entirely too strong for how many there were. I like the idea that, we the heroes, are fighting off groups, rather than the heroes ganging up on people 5 on 1. being able to easily toss aside minions is a great thing but watching an army of tougher henchmen murder your team one at a time is less so.
I liked that we got a new alert, and i really enjoy that it's a nemesis, but having all of my current Nem currency wiped with no exchange in an **** move that i really don't like cryptic doing.
The old currency isn't being wiped, you'll still have it and all the stuff you would have been farming it for will still be available for the old currency.
I am interested in trying to complete the alert using the consoles after the nemesis is released...but after deactivating all of them, I just got told that the shields were critical and then the alert completed (team killed nem)...
Any ideas?
First you have to turn off all four of the color-coded consoles at the same time. Then you have to simultaneously turn off the two gray consoles. Not something you can do solo, so it does require communication.
Once you have the group on board with the console method, it's the easiest and fastest way to complete the alert.
Thank you for explaining this! I think I may try it with a pre-made group!
I liked that we got a new alert, and i really enjoy that it's a nemesis, but having all of my current Nem currency wiped with no exchange in an **** move that i really don't like cryptic doing. "Hey, you know all that time and effort you've put it? Well, much like the rest of you, it means nothing to us, so we're putting you back at zero because of this one single mission." Not cool. If anything, i would like to see an update to the nemesis system as a whole, to justify that but if it's just going to be this one thing, then, i'm not okay with that decision.
The old Nem store, with the old items and prices is available "inside" of the new Nem store. Nothing is lost.
The more I play it, the more fun! People are starting to get the gist of it, I feel like. Mobs also seem a little more manageable than before (maybe because ppl are getting better? I dunno.)
So far, PUGs seem to always go for Nemesis no matter what, which is fine and all (I mean, beats not completing it :xD) but I’d like to try the other methods sometime.
So I'd done this a few times now.. on PUG's with AT's. Now that people know how it works, it's gone pretty smoothly. The first day was awful, but that was because it was new and I didn't know what to do. I will say this, it's nice to have a use for crowd control outside of Dog Tanking for Kiga. My Mind AT loves this alert as I have plenty to do and feel useful taking care of the mobs.
This is also really good training for lower levels to learn how to work as a team. Something that's lacking elsewhere in the game. We need more content for lower levels that teaches them more than pew pew point and shoot. I don't mind the mechanics at all -- again because it teaches players to pay attention, follow directions, and to carry out complex actions in a team setting.
This is also really good training for lower levels to learn how to work as a team. Something that's lacking elsewhere in the game. We need more content for lower levels that teaches them more than pew pew point and shoot.
THIS.
People repeatedly say "there is no bridge for the gap in difficulty" but then when they add one people say "wtf is this I have to use tactics other than just roflstomping cardboard cutouts!??!". Some Custom Alerts serve this purpose, this one definitely does... and maybe all Custom Alerts should?
People repeatedly say "there is no bridge for the gap in difficulty" but then when they add one people say "wtf is this I have to use tactics other than just roflstomping cardboard cutouts!??!". Some Custom Alerts serve this purpose, this one definitely does... and maybe all Custom Alerts should?
Getting a bit over-excited, there. You can sleep walk through this one pretty easily without learning anything much (less so than you'll learn from playing a Grab alert with a team of sub-30 toons). Good that CC has a role, too. Overall though it's still a good idea in need of a better tuned arrangement.
Getting a bit over-excited, there. You can sleep walk through this one pretty easily without learning anything much (less so than you'll learn from playing a Grab alert with a team of sub-30 toons). Good that CC has a role, too. Overall though it's still a good idea in need of a better tuned arrangement.
You'll learn how teamwork with a tank works, either as that tank, or someone working with the tank. Or you might even learn how to be a healer in a situation where a healer's skills will be tested. Maybe even learn how to control a situation as a Crowd Controller. Key knowledge for success in endgame content none of which you will really learn in a Grab alert ( unless you purposely test yourself by pulling extra groups ). I think that's a huge step forward in regards to bridging people from cardboard cutout content to "play like you know what you're doing or die" content.
You can't really sleepwalk through this like you can a Grab alert, some attention and forethought is actually required. Unless you end up on a team composed entirely of tough tanks of course, but that's clearly not the norm.
It's complete garbage. Turns off travel powers (instant lose as far as I'm concerned) and, in the second phase, doing anything or nothing meant getting knocked off a platform to Instant Death. I was told later that there was some kind of signal to block that but being buried under minions I couldn't see any warning.
So totally not worth it. Hard pass, goes into the Cybermind bin.
Want to revisit this thread because I am enjoying the alert more now that I've tried a few of the possible paths to stopping the laser. It's pretty fun
It's complete garbage. Turns off travel powers (instant lose as far as I'm concerned) and, in the second phase, doing anything or nothing meant getting knocked off a platform to Instant Death. I was told later that there was some kind of signal to block that but being buried under minions I couldn't see any warning.
So totally not worth it. Hard pass, goes into the Cybermind bin.
The signal is a huge bubble that expands outwards from the laser core and then encompasses the entire platform. Being surrounded by NPCs wouldn't prevent you from seeing it. I have been farming this alert constantly yesterday and today and have seen people successfully block the knock back hundreds of times. You can do it too, just be a bit more aware of your surroundings. If you're unsure, then just hold block when you're on the upper platform until you see the tell so you know what it looks like, it's pretty darn obvious.
Want to revisit this thread because I am enjoying the alert more now that I've tried a few of the possible paths to stopping the laser. It's pretty fun
You can't really sleepwalk through this like you can a Grab alert, some attention and forethought is actually required. Unless you end up on a team composed entirely of tough tanks of course, but that's clearly not the norm.
You certainly can't trail along in the wake of some uber-dps, sure. That's clearly why the enemies immediately re-spawn on defeat and that's a good thing.
It causes some issues in the second room - if the enemies respawn near the entrance and the aggro magnet is on the other side of the map then they loiter and ambush everyone coming in through the door (usually the weakest player who's just respawned, unfortunately, which causes a few rage-quits). There's a similar issue with the Teleport Up function- if your spawn point is on the other side to the rest of your team (happens a lot) then you can get stuck having to wade through a fair few enemies.
Team play? Not so sure. You need a character capable of tanking (but that's not necessarily a tank) and bruteforce clumping (all gathering in one place and using AoE attacks to damage the forcefields etc) works just fine. The pace of the enemy attacks means that exploring options other than just defeating the Nemesis are unlikely to be done by anyone other than a team trying out the method for fun.
All that said, there is one brilliant thing here: repeatable PUG content you play as a level 40, not weirdly scaled up or down to 30. More of that sort of thing, please...
Before the new alert,
Full Nemcon gives 40+ Tokens, with items costing 150-200 Tokens each for Heirlooms.
Nemcon almost never dropping any costume pieces due to 0.5% droprate.
With new alert.
Full Nemcon gives 22 Tokens. Costumes costs 1000 each.
Nemcon still have horrible 0.5% droprate.
Conclusion. Nothing improved, we were just served more grind for less payout.
So now that I've played it a few times, it's pretty fun, however...
Since it's by far the hardest of the custom alerts, it's pretty much a guaranteed failure if too many people leave early or if you don't have at least a couple decently-built 40s on your team. And there's nothing more disappointing than failing it when you finally get lucky enough to have the enemy be your own nemesis.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
I force myself to play it for Vigilance, but I don't enjoy it that much. With random people, it's more often a real pain than anything else : dying too much, getting swarmed, people leaving early, and so on. Even Cybermind is less frustrating overall.
Considering it requires specific role to be smooth, it's Rampage level in my opinion.
@Leucha - Cascade, Praise, Gluh, Sanglots, Chernozem, Saadhaka, Ralsershei, La Lice, Cardinale and so on
It causes some issues in the second room - if the enemies respawn near the entrance and the aggro magnet is on the other side of the map then they loiter and ambush everyone coming in through the door (usually the weakest player who's just respawned, unfortunately, which causes a few rage-quits).
Good team play means that the tank notices when people go down and heads to the spawn-side of the room to assist their re-entry.
There's a similar issue with the Teleport Up function- if your spawn point is on the other side to the rest of your team (happens a lot) then you can get stuck having to wade through a fair few enemies.
Similar to above, good team play means the tank notices when people goes down and heads to the spawn-side of the platform and starts gathering stuff there.
You need a character capable of tanking (but that's not necessarily a tank) and bruteforce clumping (all gathering in one place and using AoE attacks to damage the forcefields etc) works just fine.
Yes, a good team play tactic that produces excellent results ^_^
These are all examples of team play that the alert rewards.
The pace of the enemy attacks means that exploring options other than just defeating the Nemesis are unlikely to be done by anyone other than a team trying out the method for fun.
So now that I've played it a few times, it's pretty fun, however...
Since it's by far the hardest of the custom alerts, it's pretty much a guaranteed failure if too many people leave early or if you don't have at least a couple decently-built 40s on your team. And there's nothing more disappointing than failing it when you finally get lucky enough to have the enemy be your own nemesis.
Spinny's Suggestion: Queue with friends. Or even not-so-friends who you know can fill a vital role and ensure the alert goes well so those leavers become....cleavers... u3u not sure where was going with that last part.
Once the players who are only interested in easy mode have stopped queuing (and thus stopped quitting after a couple fails in the middle of the run) and the people who don't mind a bit of a challenge have worked out the tricks, it will be a bit tougher than Cybermind. No big deal.
Before the new alert,
Full Nemcon gives 40+ Tokens, with no way to purchase relevant costume parts.
Nemcon almost never dropping any costume pieces due to 0.5% droprate.
With new alert.
Full Nemcon gives 22 Tokens. Costumes costs 1000 each.
Nemcon still have horrible 0.5% droprate.
Conclusion]. A little bit improved, we were just given a way to grind for some rare costume parts that we didn't have before. The old Nemesis store hasn't changed, either.
I will say that if you end up on a team with no tank or CC, it's a long slog. Too much zerging to be fun for me in that case, especially since the turrets heal.
Ya'll need to learn the fine art of sending a tell to a buddy and asking them to queue with you. Feel free to ask me, I will come and be your aggro magnet o3o
This is also really good training for lower levels to learn how to work as a team. Something that's lacking elsewhere in the game. We need more content for lower levels that teaches them more than pew pew point and shoot.
THIS.
People repeatedly say "there is no bridge for the gap in difficulty" but then when they add one people say "wtf is this I have to use tactics other than just roflstomping cardboard cutouts!??!". Some Custom Alerts serve this purpose, this one definitely does... and maybe all Custom Alerts should?
I really do not get what you are talking about. In what way is this alert any different than any other Alert for teaching the game? It is less complicated than Cybermind and mostly just ROFLSTOMP endless waves of enemies while working to kill specific things... Oh wow... So complex. Good teaming is SO required... You need someone to ... wait for it ... HIT A BUTTON! OMG! That is so hard. I can't learn to have someone hit a button. This is not a Cosmic fight or a Rampage or anything. This is pretty straightforward. Either have enough DPS to just erase everything and move on or someone to tank everything and move on. The other night we beat it with 3 people lol. That is how NOT difficult this is. One tank and two DPS if you are curious.
This Alert also does little to help with team play because you rarely have time to type anything. Either you are too busy killing or blocking and so if anyone learns something it is just based on chance. I suspect what most people learn is "We need more DPS to kill these unending waves of Mobs faster!" which is pretty much what any Smash will already let you know. The only other thing they probably get to pick up is things like: "My sort of tanky build cannot handle an entire room of never ending respawnning Goons!" (Until they fix that aggro problem) and "Being a healer = Death!" (Which is a good one to learn honestly) and "I'm apparently not needed because my team just left me behind on the upper tier and to get to them I have to walk through 20 bad guys!" Which is fairly true at that part considering you can solo the upper part until the Nemesis and even then some can probably solo that part too.
The more I play it, the more fun! People are starting to get the gist of it, I feel like. Mobs also seem a little more manageable than before (maybe because ppl are getting better? I dunno.)
So far, PUGs seem to always go for Nemesis no matter what, which is fine and all (I mean, beats not completing it :xD) but I’d like to try the other methods sometime.
I think that is for a few reasons. 1) They do not know there is another option. 2) No one is going to take the time to TELL them there is another option. 3) If no one plans it is advance they just do what everyone can intuit so it gets done.
So far I have never gotten to beat this any other way either but that is for those reasons. If someone does not take the beginning time to decide we will all be doing one of the other methods then I go right for the Nem because there is not enough time to explain it at that point and you cannot really talk during the mission.
I'm pretty confused about these claims of "it's so complex" as well. As far as how the alert works, it's brain-dead easy. Figuring out what to do isn't the problem, it's living long enough to do anything.
As far as "learning" anything, this alert makes up new rules that you don't see in any other content. Mob groups tend to have certain sizes and have much lower aggro radius. I can't think of ANY place in the game where simply walking through a doorway aggros an entire room of multiple mobs.
Do we really want people to learn that walking through a doorway, as with Cybermind or Warlord, auto triggers the fight so that people will not bother politely waiting for the team to not lock them out? Hell, even the way the lockout is trigger is unlike other content and especially is unlike the other custom alerts.
I guess players can learn "devs like to make up random BS and pretend it's Challenge".
I really do not get what you are talking about. In what way is this alert any different than any other Alert for teaching the game?
Well, all the ways I mentioned. It teaches players how to work alongside a tank, manage their aggro footprint, and move as a group. Also one more I haven't mentioned yet: It introduces people to bubble tells, which is good important knowledge for when they move on to cosmics and TA.
The alert being overly complex wouldn't make it any better for teaching players teamwork. In fact, it's better to keep it simple and focus on the specific behaviors it wants to teach.
Either have enough DPS to just erase everything and move on or someone to tank everything and move on.
And teaching players how to effectively enact those two strategies as a team is something this alert does very well. Especially that second one. If it was as simple as you're putting it then there wouldn't be people failing the alert as much as they are. I've been running people through the alert for hours today who all had trouble completing their daily quest. Once they were in a group that was using proper teamwork it was success after success, and I'm sure in some cases somebody learned about that.
The other night we beat it with 3 people lol. That is how NOT difficult this is. One tank and two DPS if you are curious.
Now here you do some strawmanning because you're talking about the alert being difficult, which is not the same as the alert teaching players teamwork. Bridging content shouldn't actually be as difficult as what you're bridging to; in fact being that difficult would actually make it less effective as a learning experience.
I have also completed the alert with only three people. Oddly enough it was also a tank and two dps... wonder if maybe I was the tank in that run. That would be quite amusing wouldn't it? :P
This alert is essentially a version of a Grab alert that forces a bit more onto players. It builds on what Grab alerts present players with and forces them to have to think just a bit more about what they're doing.
The signal is a huge bubble that expands outwards from the laser core and then encompasses the entire platform. Being surrounded by NPCs wouldn't prevent you from seeing it.
Couldn't see it, and from what I've heard I'm not the only one. Maybe it's a graphics issue, don't know and don't care. The alert doesn't have any rewards that make me want to deal with it.
Ya'll need to learn the fine art of sending a tell to a buddy and asking them to queue with you. Feel free to ask me, I will come and be your aggro magnet o3o
So this alert isn't for PUGs, it's for private queue I guess. Fantastic if you're already part of a clique, terrible if you're not, but I guess this is the new norm. Thanks for the offer Spinny but if I need someone to handhold me through new content I'm not interested in the new content. It's something else that's clearly not for me.
Besides, even if this mission was the easiest mission in the game, something you could solo, I'd still hate it because of the design choices. If they can take away your travel powers why can't they take away your other powers? If they could electrify the floor causing near instant death, why wouldn't they electrify the floor when the heroes first show up to guarantee they couldn't reach the boss? What causes the lock outs for the main boss? Why wouldn't the boss use whatever that is sooner?
This mission just has too many sins and I hear we're getting cut scenes as well.
Besides, even if this mission was the easiest mission in the game, something you could solo, I'd still hate it because of the design choices. If they can take away your travel powers why can't they take away your other powers? If they could electrify the floor causing near instant death, why wouldn't they electrify the floor when the heroes first show up to guarantee they couldn't reach the boss? What causes the lock outs for the main boss? Why wouldn't the boss use whatever that is sooner?
This mission just has too many sins and I hear we're getting cut scenes as well.
Geez, you really put a lot of thought into convincing yourself that you don't like this alert.
This mission just has too many sins and I hear we're getting cut scenes as well.
I like cut scenes! Who doesn't enjoy Oxygen raged Ksash Hounds and the rest of Tatekyls's snarky announcements? The dialogue just needs to be zingy, not ponderous.
I also think the mission gives good feedback on making Level 40 characters that aren't just super tuff tanks or ultra dps. Other builds have a role and that's good. I wish it wasn't going in the Custom Alert rotation, tbh, and was about to become a separate category of Level 40 alerts. Can they repurpose the Mechanon end game as well?
also guyhumal, on that private que comment, today I was making premades and I made them by announcing in zone chat that I was looking for "squishies, newbies, and anybody having trouble completing their daily" and just accepted everyone who responded - every run was smooth and quick. So yeah, you definitely gotta do some hardcore private queue action to get through this alert. Elitism prevails! \o/
I didn't realize 2 people is a private queue now. If the number keeps shrinking we'll all be our own private queue \o/
Since when is private queue two people? Private queue is just the opposite of public, instead of random groups you're assembling a team. I get that you're trying to make me out as an idiot to devalue my opinions but private queue is how people often run rampages.
That's a good attitude, it'll take you far in life. Someone offers to help you, act insulted and just give up on the whole thing.
No, I decided that I didn't want to do this mission through my first run, and that had nothing to do with difficulty. I was able to compete this mission on the second try, it wasn't exactly a smooth run, but I was able to complete it and now I feel absolutely no desire to run it again.
As I said though, I am appreciative of the offers for help. I meant that sincerely. Not just for myself but for the general gaming community. Offering to help folks is how we build a strong community that makes people want to stick around. However private queue isn't the way I roll, I only PUG, and I'd rather fail a dozen time with strangers than get handheld though a mission. It feels like I'm contributing that way rather than being the civilian in an escort mission.
Geez, you really put a lot of thought into convincing yourself that you don't like this alert.
Yes, I have put a lot of thought into the mission, and as I said earlier, if this was something so easy I could solo queue it, I still wouldn't like it. It's bad design. I'd imagine when this gets added to the vigilance rotation I'll have to do it, like cybermind or Forum Malvanum, and I despise both of those missions as much as this new one. However till that time I can ignore this mission. I'm not really interested in doing a mash up of all of my biggest complaints about missions.
Yeah that'd be the point I was making... that it was silly when you started talking about "private queues" in regards to this alert. Remember how you were the one that started using that term first? And now you're trying to say it's dumb. You're basically just arguing that the thing you said is dumb now o3o
However private queue isn't the way I roll, I only PUG, and I'd rather fail a dozen time with strangers than get handheld though a mission. It feels like I'm contributing that way rather than being the civilian in an escort mission.
So you deny the thing I said.. and then basically say it again. The idea of queuing in a group with 1 other person is somehow insulting to you and and makes you feel like you're "not contributing". I mean.. how is that different than if you happen to end up in a pug that has a tank? What if you randomly end up in a pug with me? Are you just gonna feel like you're "a civilian in an escort mission"? Is that how you feel any time there is a tank in a group with you properly playing their role? Do you only feel like you're contributing if you have aggro?
if this was something so easy I could solo queue it
Just for the record you can solo queue it o3o/ people do that and succeed quite often. Queuing with a tank buddy just ensures that you will have one of those in the group with you.
I like the convenience of clicking the PUG button, and then doing whatever until the alert pops. I suspect many others do.
If I had the tank or CC, then the alert succeeded. If I got lucky and someone else brought a tank or CC, the alert succeeded. Otherwise it failed.
I'd like to see a longer time gap between spawn groups, so that a DPS team could still shut down the turret shields.
I also like the convenience of the pug button. It is the main reason that I like alerts, just click the button, and then do whatever until the alert pops. That is my favorite way to play. This convenience is still available if I am in a group with someone ^_^
A team full of DPS can also finish the alert ( I queued on all my toons last night and finished the alert on all of them ). It just takes.... team work!
Yeah that'd be the point I was making... that it was silly when you started talking about "private queues" in regards to this alert. Remember how you were the one that started using that term first? And now you're trying to say it's dumb. You're basically just arguing that the thing you said is dumb now o3o
You're the one pretending not to understand what private queues mean here Spinny, not me, a private queue is a group set up in private rather then taking the random selection of players in a pick up game. I don't know why you'd think that I was saying it was a group of two except for deliberate misinterpretation of my position. Maybe you're trying to say that you can queue with a friend? Perhaps English isn't your first language?
Just for the record you can solo queue it o3o/ people do that and succeed quite often. Queuing with a tank buddy just ensures that you will have one of those in the group with you.
That's queuing for a PUG not solo. If you're doing the mission with other people that's not solo. Solo means on your own. The only way you're doing this mission on your own is if the other 4 people drop out.
So it looks to me like most of those who dislike this alert have had pretty negative things to say about this game for awhile now and are dissatisfied with the direction things have been going since this latest batch of devs took over(if not longer than that.) So I guess it is really no surprise that they feel the way that they do. Same old song and dance, business as usual.
So it looks to me like most of those who dislike this alert have had pretty negative things to say about this game for awhile now and are dissatisfied with the direction things have been going since this latest batch of devs took over(if not longer than that.) So I guess it is really no surprise that they feel the way that they do. Same old song and dance, business as usual.
I don't know, I really don't follow people's opinions well enough to know if that's true. In my case I'm mostly satisfied with what's being added to the game, however people in general don't usually post positive stuff in threads. usually if they're happy they're playing the game, posting pictures, maybe showing people things in game, hidden missions, lore, etc, but when people post on threads like this one it's because they're dissatisfied with something. In this case people are talking about the mission itself, and while they might love the new emotes and the costume parts (which is hard work from the Dev teams) what you're going to be seeing is their gripes with what they're dissatisfied with. Personally I'm mostly happy with how the games going, it's why I'm still here, if I was mostly upset with the game I'd just move onto something else. Personally I'd say folks that complain aren't complaining because they hate the game, if they're anything like me, I'd say it's because they still love the game and are just upset with parts of the game.
The signal is a huge bubble that expands outwards from the laser core and then encompasses the entire platform. Being surrounded by NPCs wouldn't prevent you from seeing it.
Couldn't see it, and from what I've heard I'm not the only one. Maybe it's a graphics issue, don't know and don't care. The alert doesn't have any rewards that make me want to deal with it.
It is probably not a graphics issue... It is a problem with how that particular bubble works. Usually with bubbles like that you are on a flat surface with a lot of space around you to see the bubble come out. In this case you were PROBABLY looking at the force field and the core itself when the bubble showed up. Both are blue (which maybe they should change) and because you are deep inside the bubble if you do not have the camera pulled back far enough to see off the side of the platform you can relatively easily miss the bubble showing up. Also if there are a lot of particle effects from powers being used or too many bad guys surrounding you then you may also miss it. I have missed it a few times even knowing it was there. Generally I try to get into a pattern of blocking after a certain amount of time has past regardless of if I see it or not and that tends to work even if it cuts down my DPS a little sometimes.
What is more fun is being flung off and surviving lol. Two of my tanks did that. My main tank can walk around down below quite a bit before actually dying LOL. It confused the HECK out of a healer in one run who could not find me to heal me because I was down there and then when they realized that they wanted to know how the heck I was still alive.
Spinny: The only thing you have ever run with me was a few Grabs a long time ago. I suspect we generally tend to be on at very different times. I was also the tank in that run in question.
I still do not see how this Alert "teaches" anything anymore than any other one does. It is not like it explains a whole lot and again it is not like you generally have time to really talk to players aside from before you start it off. As I said: Cybermind or Forum Malvanum actually teach far better than this Alert does. That might change if the Cut-scenes start working but I have not seen them yet.
Also a full DPS team makes this Alert really easy. I have done 3 all DPS runs so far and each one was really fast. I don't know about team work... We mostly just shot everything that moved lol. There was not a lot of actual coordination going on. We even split up on the upper platform and just erased everything around the thing in no time. Then in all three cases we just sort of automatically attacked the Nem. The third time I was really tempted to suggest the laser core at the start but one of the party rushed out so I was like "eh whatever". So far I have not gotten anything related to how you defeat it anyway so I suppose it makes no difference.
guyhumual: you are correct in that generally people who complain with constructive criticism are not people who hate the game but people who want the game to be as good as it can possibly be. They are concerned not haters. If they did hate the game they would just leave and not play it. As for not running this Alert: You do what you enjoy doing. Otherwise the game is sort of meh. However, I think Spinny and a few others may be right in terms of suggesting that you give it more of a chance. It is not really that bad or difficult of an Alert in the grand scheme of things. If they solve the wonky spawn rates and how you weirdly aggro the entire room sometimes then it would be a fairly fun Alert.
I assume you tend to avoid doing Cybermind as well? It can be frustrating and it helps to have a certain mix of PUG mates but it is likewise rather doable with a lot of different combinations with just a bit of effort. Though... I once solo'd Cybermind on an off-tank due to everyone else screwing up too badly in his room. That was not so fun. Half an Hour later I alone had victory LOL. Still it was sort of bitter-sweet at least.
You're the one pretending not to understand what private queues mean here Spinny, not me, a private queue is a group set up in private rather then taking the random selection of players in a pick up game. I don't know why you'd think that I was saying it was a group of two except for deliberate misinterpretation of my position. Maybe you're trying to say that you can queue with a friend? Perhaps English isn't your first language?
The real question you should be asking yourself is why you brought up private queues when what I said was "queue with a friend". If anything, that would indicate that at the time you brought that up you didn't know what a private queue was since you jumped from 2 people to 5 for no reason. Also, people generally call those groups "premades". Private queues are a UI function specific to rampages.
That's queuing for a PUG not solo. If you're doing the mission with other people that's not solo. Solo means on your own. The only way you're doing this mission on your own is if the other 4 people drop out.
"solo queuing" means queuing an alert by yourself. Not sure why you're starting an argument over that.
I still do not see how this Alert "teaches" anything anymore than any other one does.
It puts players into a situation where team work is more beneficial than in other alerts. I've seen it in action. Players at first go off on their own, then they notice that everyone moving with the tank is staying alive so they move with the tank - bam, they just learned something. If you don't get it there's really no other way to explain it, so you just won't get it. I think your idea of content that can teach people is just very specific and limited to explicit tutorials. And that's fine.
I've run the alert upwards of 60 times ( 54/100 on Ultimate Victory perk plus runs on other characters ) so maybe I've just seen a more diverse example of groups and have seen more examples of people learning. I'm sure if all I had seen was a few DPS groups playing as you describe I might think otherwise.
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Second Run: a couple folks knew all the stages--very smooth run.
I suspect this will be entirely farmable, like Warlord, within a week.
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This is pretty much my opinion as well. This instance was clearly designed for either uber builds or premade groups with good communication. The enemies are too strong, for how many there are, so if you're in with lower level heroes, they're dead and then you're dead, or likely vice versa as you're putting out more threat. The map itself is a good design but there is too much going on from all the spam and pew pew, so by the time we were fighting the nemesis, they were out for a good minute or so before i'd even realized they were there.
I liked that we got a new alert, and i really enjoy that it's a nemesis, but having all of my current Nem currency wiped with no exchange in an **** move that i really don't like cryptic doing. "Hey, you know all that time and effort you've put it? Well, much like the rest of you, it means nothing to us, so we're putting you back at zero because of this one single mission." Not cool. If anything, i would like to see an update to the nemesis system as a whole, to justify that but if it's just going to be this one thing, then, i'm not okay with that decision.
If the mission weren't so clearly for the 10% of people who mathed the crap out of the game or just paid for the better gear and mods, it wouldn't be so bad. It needs to be balanced better for the kinds of groups you see most often in pug alerts. The sheer fact that it was released without any of the story stuff to explain what you're supposed to do, is also a lazy-**** move on cryptic's part but they've never really been known for releasing finished products, so that is to be expected. It's still lazy though.
And ofcourse people that have some kind of sense how teaming works.
Just waitin' ol' Smacks to make awesome tutorial graphs.
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The old currency isn't being wiped, you'll still have it and all the stuff you would have been farming it for will still be available for the old currency.
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Thank you for explaining this! I think I may try it with a pre-made group!
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So far, PUGs seem to always go for Nemesis no matter what, which is fine and all (I mean, beats not completing it :xD) but I’d like to try the other methods sometime.
So I'd done this a few times now.. on PUG's with AT's. Now that people know how it works, it's gone pretty smoothly. The first day was awful, but that was because it was new and I didn't know what to do. I will say this, it's nice to have a use for crowd control outside of Dog Tanking for Kiga. My Mind AT loves this alert as I have plenty to do and feel useful taking care of the mobs.
This is also really good training for lower levels to learn how to work as a team. Something that's lacking elsewhere in the game. We need more content for lower levels that teaches them more than pew pew point and shoot. I don't mind the mechanics at all -- again because it teaches players to pay attention, follow directions, and to carry out complex actions in a team setting.
THIS.
People repeatedly say "there is no bridge for the gap in difficulty" but then when they add one people say "wtf is this I have to use tactics other than just roflstomping cardboard cutouts!??!". Some Custom Alerts serve this purpose, this one definitely does... and maybe all Custom Alerts should?
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It was a lot on the slim side. I like the mechanics. But the minions felt like a reckless afterthought
The only complain I have is that everyone is having so much fun running this that Cosmics are being neglected
Getting a bit over-excited, there. You can sleep walk through this one pretty easily without learning anything much (less so than you'll learn from playing a Grab alert with a team of sub-30 toons). Good that CC has a role, too. Overall though it's still a good idea in need of a better tuned arrangement.
You'll learn how teamwork with a tank works, either as that tank, or someone working with the tank. Or you might even learn how to be a healer in a situation where a healer's skills will be tested. Maybe even learn how to control a situation as a Crowd Controller. Key knowledge for success in endgame content none of which you will really learn in a Grab alert ( unless you purposely test yourself by pulling extra groups ). I think that's a huge step forward in regards to bridging people from cardboard cutout content to "play like you know what you're doing or die" content.
You can't really sleepwalk through this like you can a Grab alert, some attention and forethought is actually required. Unless you end up on a team composed entirely of tough tanks of course, but that's clearly not the norm.
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So totally not worth it. Hard pass, goes into the Cybermind bin.
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The signal is a huge bubble that expands outwards from the laser core and then encompasses the entire platform. Being surrounded by NPCs wouldn't prevent you from seeing it. I have been farming this alert constantly yesterday and today and have seen people successfully block the knock back hundreds of times. You can do it too, just be a bit more aware of your surroundings. If you're unsure, then just hold block when you're on the upper platform until you see the tell so you know what it looks like, it's pretty darn obvious.
I bet you like dpsing the core most o3o
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You certainly can't trail along in the wake of some uber-dps, sure. That's clearly why the enemies immediately re-spawn on defeat and that's a good thing.
It causes some issues in the second room - if the enemies respawn near the entrance and the aggro magnet is on the other side of the map then they loiter and ambush everyone coming in through the door (usually the weakest player who's just respawned, unfortunately, which causes a few rage-quits). There's a similar issue with the Teleport Up function- if your spawn point is on the other side to the rest of your team (happens a lot) then you can get stuck having to wade through a fair few enemies.
Team play? Not so sure. You need a character capable of tanking (but that's not necessarily a tank) and bruteforce clumping (all gathering in one place and using AoE attacks to damage the forcefields etc) works just fine. The pace of the enemy attacks means that exploring options other than just defeating the Nemesis are unlikely to be done by anyone other than a team trying out the method for fun.
All that said, there is one brilliant thing here: repeatable PUG content you play as a level 40, not weirdly scaled up or down to 30. More of that sort of thing, please...
Before the new alert,
Full Nemcon gives 40+ Tokens, with items costing 150-200 Tokens each for Heirlooms.
Nemcon almost never dropping any costume pieces due to 0.5% droprate.
With new alert.
Full Nemcon gives 22 Tokens. Costumes costs 1000 each.
Nemcon still have horrible 0.5% droprate.
Conclusion. Nothing improved, we were just served more grind for less payout.
Since it's by far the hardest of the custom alerts, it's pretty much a guaranteed failure if too many people leave early or if you don't have at least a couple decently-built 40s on your team. And there's nothing more disappointing than failing it when you finally get lucky enough to have the enemy be your own nemesis.
Considering it requires specific role to be smooth, it's Rampage level in my opinion.
You should be sure, considering you've given wonderful examples of situations that require it! \o/
Good team play means that the tank notices when people go down and heads to the spawn-side of the room to assist their re-entry.
Similar to above, good team play means the tank notices when people goes down and heads to the spawn-side of the platform and starts gathering stuff there.
Yes, a good team play tactic that produces excellent results ^_^
These are all examples of team play that the alert rewards.
Yeah I'm pretty sure that's intended.
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Spinny's Suggestion: Queue with friends. Or even not-so-friends who you know can fill a vital role and ensure the alert goes well so those leavers become....cleavers... u3u not sure where was going with that last part.
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Fixed that one.
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Folks leave (I do), and mission fails.
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I really do not get what you are talking about. In what way is this alert any different than any other Alert for teaching the game? It is less complicated than Cybermind and mostly just ROFLSTOMP endless waves of enemies while working to kill specific things... Oh wow... So complex. Good teaming is SO required... You need someone to ... wait for it ... HIT A BUTTON! OMG! That is so hard. I can't learn to have someone hit a button. This is not a Cosmic fight or a Rampage or anything. This is pretty straightforward. Either have enough DPS to just erase everything and move on or someone to tank everything and move on. The other night we beat it with 3 people lol. That is how NOT difficult this is. One tank and two DPS if you are curious.
This Alert also does little to help with team play because you rarely have time to type anything. Either you are too busy killing or blocking and so if anyone learns something it is just based on chance. I suspect what most people learn is "We need more DPS to kill these unending waves of Mobs faster!" which is pretty much what any Smash will already let you know. The only other thing they probably get to pick up is things like: "My sort of tanky build cannot handle an entire room of never ending respawnning Goons!" (Until they fix that aggro problem) and "Being a healer = Death!" (Which is a good one to learn honestly) and "I'm apparently not needed because my team just left me behind on the upper tier and to get to them I have to walk through 20 bad guys!" Which is fairly true at that part considering you can solo the upper part until the Nemesis and even then some can probably solo that part too.
I think that is for a few reasons. 1) They do not know there is another option. 2) No one is going to take the time to TELL them there is another option. 3) If no one plans it is advance they just do what everyone can intuit so it gets done.
So far I have never gotten to beat this any other way either but that is for those reasons. If someone does not take the beginning time to decide we will all be doing one of the other methods then I go right for the Nem because there is not enough time to explain it at that point and you cannot really talk during the mission.
As far as "learning" anything, this alert makes up new rules that you don't see in any other content. Mob groups tend to have certain sizes and have much lower aggro radius. I can't think of ANY place in the game where simply walking through a doorway aggros an entire room of multiple mobs.
Do we really want people to learn that walking through a doorway, as with Cybermind or Warlord, auto triggers the fight so that people will not bother politely waiting for the team to not lock them out? Hell, even the way the lockout is trigger is unlike other content and especially is unlike the other custom alerts.
I guess players can learn "devs like to make up random BS and pretend it's Challenge".
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Well, all the ways I mentioned. It teaches players how to work alongside a tank, manage their aggro footprint, and move as a group. Also one more I haven't mentioned yet: It introduces people to bubble tells, which is good important knowledge for when they move on to cosmics and TA.
The alert being overly complex wouldn't make it any better for teaching players teamwork. In fact, it's better to keep it simple and focus on the specific behaviors it wants to teach.
And teaching players how to effectively enact those two strategies as a team is something this alert does very well. Especially that second one. If it was as simple as you're putting it then there wouldn't be people failing the alert as much as they are. I've been running people through the alert for hours today who all had trouble completing their daily quest. Once they were in a group that was using proper teamwork it was success after success, and I'm sure in some cases somebody learned about that.
Now here you do some strawmanning because you're talking about the alert being difficult, which is not the same as the alert teaching players teamwork. Bridging content shouldn't actually be as difficult as what you're bridging to; in fact being that difficult would actually make it less effective as a learning experience.
I have also completed the alert with only three people. Oddly enough it was also a tank and two dps... wonder if maybe I was the tank in that run. That would be quite amusing wouldn't it? :P
This alert is essentially a version of a Grab alert that forces a bit more onto players. It builds on what Grab alerts present players with and forces them to have to think just a bit more about what they're doing.
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Couldn't see it, and from what I've heard I'm not the only one. Maybe it's a graphics issue, don't know and don't care. The alert doesn't have any rewards that make me want to deal with it.
So this alert isn't for PUGs, it's for private queue I guess. Fantastic if you're already part of a clique, terrible if you're not, but I guess this is the new norm. Thanks for the offer Spinny but if I need someone to handhold me through new content I'm not interested in the new content. It's something else that's clearly not for me.
Besides, even if this mission was the easiest mission in the game, something you could solo, I'd still hate it because of the design choices. If they can take away your travel powers why can't they take away your other powers? If they could electrify the floor causing near instant death, why wouldn't they electrify the floor when the heroes first show up to guarantee they couldn't reach the boss? What causes the lock outs for the main boss? Why wouldn't the boss use whatever that is sooner?
This mission just has too many sins and I hear we're getting cut scenes as well.
I didn't realize 2 people is a private queue now. If the number keeps shrinking we'll all be our own private queue \o/
That's a good attitude, it'll take you far in life. Someone offers to help you, act insulted and just give up on the whole thing.
Geez, you really put a lot of thought into convincing yourself that you don't like this alert.
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I like cut scenes! Who doesn't enjoy Oxygen raged Ksash Hounds and the rest of Tatekyls's snarky announcements? The dialogue just needs to be zingy, not ponderous.
I also think the mission gives good feedback on making Level 40 characters that aren't just super tuff tanks or ultra dps. Other builds have a role and that's good. I wish it wasn't going in the Custom Alert rotation, tbh, and was about to become a separate category of Level 40 alerts. Can they repurpose the Mechanon end game as well?
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No, I decided that I didn't want to do this mission through my first run, and that had nothing to do with difficulty. I was able to compete this mission on the second try, it wasn't exactly a smooth run, but I was able to complete it and now I feel absolutely no desire to run it again.
As I said though, I am appreciative of the offers for help. I meant that sincerely. Not just for myself but for the general gaming community. Offering to help folks is how we build a strong community that makes people want to stick around. However private queue isn't the way I roll, I only PUG, and I'd rather fail a dozen time with strangers than get handheld though a mission. It feels like I'm contributing that way rather than being the civilian in an escort mission.
Yes, I have put a lot of thought into the mission, and as I said earlier, if this was something so easy I could solo queue it, I still wouldn't like it. It's bad design. I'd imagine when this gets added to the vigilance rotation I'll have to do it, like cybermind or Forum Malvanum, and I despise both of those missions as much as this new one. However till that time I can ignore this mission. I'm not really interested in doing a mash up of all of my biggest complaints about missions.
If I had the tank or CC, then the alert succeeded. If I got lucky and someone else brought a tank or CC, the alert succeeded. Otherwise it failed.
I'd like to see a longer time gap between spawn groups, so that a DPS team could still shut down the turret shields.
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Yeah that'd be the point I was making... that it was silly when you started talking about "private queues" in regards to this alert. Remember how you were the one that started using that term first? And now you're trying to say it's dumb. You're basically just arguing that the thing you said is dumb now o3o
So you deny the thing I said.. and then basically say it again. The idea of queuing in a group with 1 other person is somehow insulting to you and and makes you feel like you're "not contributing". I mean.. how is that different than if you happen to end up in a pug that has a tank? What if you randomly end up in a pug with me? Are you just gonna feel like you're "a civilian in an escort mission"? Is that how you feel any time there is a tank in a group with you properly playing their role? Do you only feel like you're contributing if you have aggro?
Just for the record you can solo queue it o3o/ people do that and succeed quite often. Queuing with a tank buddy just ensures that you will have one of those in the group with you.
I also like the convenience of the pug button. It is the main reason that I like alerts, just click the button, and then do whatever until the alert pops. That is my favorite way to play. This convenience is still available if I am in a group with someone ^_^
A team full of DPS can also finish the alert ( I queued on all my toons last night and finished the alert on all of them ). It just takes.... team work!
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You're the one pretending not to understand what private queues mean here Spinny, not me, a private queue is a group set up in private rather then taking the random selection of players in a pick up game. I don't know why you'd think that I was saying it was a group of two except for deliberate misinterpretation of my position. Maybe you're trying to say that you can queue with a friend? Perhaps English isn't your first language?
That's queuing for a PUG not solo. If you're doing the mission with other people that's not solo. Solo means on your own. The only way you're doing this mission on your own is if the other 4 people drop out.
The YES! NO! YES! NO! from both extremes get boring after a while.
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I don't know, I really don't follow people's opinions well enough to know if that's true. In my case I'm mostly satisfied with what's being added to the game, however people in general don't usually post positive stuff in threads. usually if they're happy they're playing the game, posting pictures, maybe showing people things in game, hidden missions, lore, etc, but when people post on threads like this one it's because they're dissatisfied with something. In this case people are talking about the mission itself, and while they might love the new emotes and the costume parts (which is hard work from the Dev teams) what you're going to be seeing is their gripes with what they're dissatisfied with. Personally I'm mostly happy with how the games going, it's why I'm still here, if I was mostly upset with the game I'd just move onto something else. Personally I'd say folks that complain aren't complaining because they hate the game, if they're anything like me, I'd say it's because they still love the game and are just upset with parts of the game.
It is probably not a graphics issue... It is a problem with how that particular bubble works. Usually with bubbles like that you are on a flat surface with a lot of space around you to see the bubble come out. In this case you were PROBABLY looking at the force field and the core itself when the bubble showed up. Both are blue (which maybe they should change) and because you are deep inside the bubble if you do not have the camera pulled back far enough to see off the side of the platform you can relatively easily miss the bubble showing up. Also if there are a lot of particle effects from powers being used or too many bad guys surrounding you then you may also miss it. I have missed it a few times even knowing it was there. Generally I try to get into a pattern of blocking after a certain amount of time has past regardless of if I see it or not and that tends to work even if it cuts down my DPS a little sometimes.
What is more fun is being flung off and surviving lol. Two of my tanks did that. My main tank can walk around down below quite a bit before actually dying LOL. It confused the HECK out of a healer in one run who could not find me to heal me because I was down there and then when they realized that they wanted to know how the heck I was still alive.
Spinny: The only thing you have ever run with me was a few Grabs a long time ago. I suspect we generally tend to be on at very different times. I was also the tank in that run in question.
I still do not see how this Alert "teaches" anything anymore than any other one does. It is not like it explains a whole lot and again it is not like you generally have time to really talk to players aside from before you start it off. As I said: Cybermind or Forum Malvanum actually teach far better than this Alert does. That might change if the Cut-scenes start working but I have not seen them yet.
Also a full DPS team makes this Alert really easy. I have done 3 all DPS runs so far and each one was really fast. I don't know about team work... We mostly just shot everything that moved lol. There was not a lot of actual coordination going on. We even split up on the upper platform and just erased everything around the thing in no time. Then in all three cases we just sort of automatically attacked the Nem. The third time I was really tempted to suggest the laser core at the start but one of the party rushed out so I was like "eh whatever". So far I have not gotten anything related to how you defeat it anyway so I suppose it makes no difference.
guyhumual: you are correct in that generally people who complain with constructive criticism are not people who hate the game but people who want the game to be as good as it can possibly be. They are concerned not haters. If they did hate the game they would just leave and not play it. As for not running this Alert: You do what you enjoy doing. Otherwise the game is sort of meh. However, I think Spinny and a few others may be right in terms of suggesting that you give it more of a chance. It is not really that bad or difficult of an Alert in the grand scheme of things. If they solve the wonky spawn rates and how you weirdly aggro the entire room sometimes then it would be a fairly fun Alert.
I assume you tend to avoid doing Cybermind as well? It can be frustrating and it helps to have a certain mix of PUG mates but it is likewise rather doable with a lot of different combinations with just a bit of effort. Though... I once solo'd Cybermind on an off-tank due to everyone else screwing up too badly in his room. That was not so fun. Half an Hour later I alone had victory LOL. Still it was sort of bitter-sweet at least.
The real question you should be asking yourself is why you brought up private queues when what I said was "queue with a friend". If anything, that would indicate that at the time you brought that up you didn't know what a private queue was since you jumped from 2 people to 5 for no reason. Also, people generally call those groups "premades". Private queues are a UI function specific to rampages.
"solo queuing" means queuing an alert by yourself. Not sure why you're starting an argument over that.
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It puts players into a situation where team work is more beneficial than in other alerts. I've seen it in action. Players at first go off on their own, then they notice that everyone moving with the tank is staying alive so they move with the tank - bam, they just learned something. If you don't get it there's really no other way to explain it, so you just won't get it. I think your idea of content that can teach people is just very specific and limited to explicit tutorials. And that's fine.
I've run the alert upwards of 60 times ( 54/100 on Ultimate Victory perk plus runs on other characters ) so maybe I've just seen a more diverse example of groups and have seen more examples of people learning. I'm sure if all I had seen was a few DPS groups playing as you describe I might think otherwise.
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