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Power Changes Discussion Thread

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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    gradii said:

    Yeeeah chest laser is a bit strong. a build with micromunitions concussor and minigun/launcher wont reach anywhere near those numbers.​​

    Chest Laser should be stronger than Micromunitions, considering Micro has the better aoe potential since it has a radius while chest laser is a 2ft cylinder.
    nightr0d said:

    So you got 8.5k dps or am I misunderstanding what you were saying with the "I think this is just fine considering how restricted PA is" ?

    Yes, I got 8.5k dps. Well, basically. Here's another parse where I didn't chat in the middle of it.


    12 off from 8.5k. No exploits ( don't know any ), and also didn't use any macros ( not even sure how someone would begin to go about doing that ). I'd like to investigate why you got 7.5k though, there has to be an actual reason. Whisper me in game and we can get into the nitty gritty of it ( I have some theories but I need to verify some stuff with you ).
    Post edited by spinnytop on
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    So to everyone who is wondering, there's no particular tricks at work for this. For your primaries, Justice Offense and Defense, and Distinguished Utility. Secondaries I used for the parse were the OV ones, but I also parsed Determined and it wasn't much less. Slot everything for Ego. Standard Guardicator setup.

    The canceling thing Aiqa is talking about is basically you toggle on all 3 maintains, count to 4, then double click each of them to cancel and start them again.

    That's how I got 8.5k without any circles or what not.
    Post edited by spinnytop on
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Now without the OP chest laser. This is a bit more a complicated rotation (largely because having to manually stop micro munitions for using AOs).

  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    Oh look DaZee's wrong again. Wasn't this a discussion thread about Fire at some point? o3o
  • friezalivesonfriezaliveson Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    spinnytop said:

    Oh look DaZee's wrong again. Wasn't this a discussion thread about Fire at some point? o3o

    I'm so confused how this thread became about fire then DaZee (by you of all people) then died.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    The thread was never about dazee, he was just saying silly things in it as usual u3u on fire, I personally think Incinerate should actually be doing just a bit more than it currently is. Seeing a lot of people standing in that middle area between the melee and the 100 rangers lately, and they're always in range for babbie's aoes.
  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 873 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    kamokami said:

    nightr0d said:

    The issue with elementalist is that we have energy and elemental damage types. So unless we have a passive that buffs both that will be a problem (well NW buffs all dmg but that's not the point).

    But that is the point. You have NW, Quarry, WoTW, Unstoppable in offensive passive category....and since they have buffs for a massive selection of damage types that buff amount is lower. I would not want to make the decision to use a particular passive mostly a cosmetic one or to have the specialized offensive passives get nerfed to make up for covering a vast array of damage types. The passives that buff 1-3 damage types are for people who want to specialize in those sets.

    It makes sense that more specialized buffs are bigger than buffs that cover many powersets. If they weren't then you would actually have fewer meaningful choices and less diversity.
    nightr0d said:

    All we would need is a passive that buffes both elemental and physical dmg.

    We already have a freeform powers system + offensive passives that buff both to address that.

    And to be clear, you are just talking about offensive passives.
    Yeahhh.. but there is too much overlap with the current offensive passives. We have multiple passives that buff elemental damage, multiple passives that buff physical damage, and multiple passives that buff energy damage. These are all largely arbitrary powerset groupings. Sure these sets have become ensconced over time, but they're not inherently meaningful groups.

    Just from a thematic standpoint, a passive that buffs Lightning, cold, and fire seems more sensible than poison, cold, and fire. From a visual standpoint, earth has a bunch of lava-y looking powers... so some kind of crushing and fire boost seems like a no-brainer.

    Yes, we have nightwarrior, and some good melee options. But nightwarrior also comes with a bunch of tacked-on powers that makes it a bit less appealing as a universal theme-less passive.. to me anyway.. and yeah I'm a bit ocd, but whateverrr maaan.

  • draogndraogn Posts: 1,269 Arc User
    So the 8.5k is possible with end game gear, minmaxed stats, what about mods? Wouldn't going with middle of the row gear (blues like merc gear or other set that are easier/less rng/grindy to get) give more accurate measurements when it comes to balancing?

    How are those numbers when using something other then guard/vind/ward?
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,633 Arc User
    draogn said:

    So the 8.5k is possible with end game gear, minmaxed stats, what about mods? Wouldn't going with middle of the row gear (blues like merc gear or other set that are easier/less rng/grindy to get) give more accurate measurements when it comes to balancing?

    How are those numbers when using something other then guard/vind/ward?

    Why not get a parser and find out?
    vonqball said:

    Yes, we have nightwarrior, and some good melee options. But nightwarrior also comes with a bunch of tacked-on powers that makes it a bit less appealing as a universal theme-less passive.. to me anyway.. and yeah I'm a bit ocd, but whateverrr maaan.

    I just remove those extra powers from my power tray. Those other options are not just melee....they buff ranged damage too.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    draogn said:

    So the 8.5k is possible with end game gear, minmaxed stats, what about mods? Wouldn't going with middle of the row gear (blues like merc gear or other set that are easier/less rng/grindy to get) give more accurate measurements when it comes to balancing?

    Better gear mostly boosts all damage the same. The main likely change is that sets with difficult energy management (like PA) will be relatively lower.
  • nightr0dnightr0d Posts: 450 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    draogn said:

    So the 8.5k is possible with end game gear, minmaxed stats, what about mods? Wouldn't going with middle of the row gear (blues like merc gear or other set that are easier/less rng/grindy to get) give more accurate measurements when it comes to balancing?

    How are those numbers when using something other then guard/vind/ward?

    Since I actually reproduced that build and damage (tnx to spinnytop) I can safely say that this build is without a doubt the max you can achieve gear wise + either perfect timings or running a marco to generate perfect rotations. The issues with that is that unless you are used to playing PA reaching 8.5k even with a macro during endgame bosses is going to be a challenge to say the least.

    Anyhow the point is that for PA and this build specifically you absolutely need every single stat point. In fact I used some of the dual slot mods to boost the effective number of stat points to help it out.

    The most problematic part with this build is that you literally need about 750 GCR and 1500 SCR (I forgot the exact prices) for the primary gear alone. Then you need to get about 10000 OV tokens for 2 secondaries and either a cosmic fang of wrath or the sniper gloves for the secondary offense slot (more GCR/SCR or OV tokens). Then comes the actual gearing for R9 mods + if you can afford a R9 Clarence mod.

    All in all, to afford this build you'd have to spend a VERY long time grinding for it. If you want to do dmg and not go crazy grinding the gear for it, most other sets can do very high dmg without being so heavily reliant on gear. You can do 5-6k dmg with legion's and R7 mods.

    Depends what you like, some people hate PA some love it some don't care at all for it.
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,633 Arc User
    nightr0d said:

    Since I actually reproduced that build and damage (tnx to spinnytop) I can safely say that this build is without a doubt the max you can achieve gear wise + either perfect timings or running a marco to generate perfect rotations.

    It's not at all "the absolute max". But I think this thread was supposed to be about fire.
  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,675 Arc User
    PA is the new Fire. Because you can easily meltdown enemies faster.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    draogn said:

    So the 8.5k is possible with end game gear, minmaxed stats, what about mods? Wouldn't going with middle of the row gear (blues like merc gear or other set that are easier/less rng/grindy to get) give more accurate measurements when it comes to balancing?

    Depends what you're testing for. Aiqa is comparing power sets to one another, so the only thing there that matters is that all variables other than the powerset-specific powers are kept the same to avoid having outside factors influence the results. In this case it doesn't matter if you use the best gear, heroics, or really anything, so long as you're using that same exact gear for each test.

    If you're testing for highest possible output, then you would want the best gear. If you want to know what someone in merc would get, then you use that. Both data sets are equally valuable because both circumstances will be present at cosmics. The game has to be balanced around the entire range between those two results, not around one or the other. The only thing that really matters is that you make sure to mention what type of gear you were using to provide context for the numbers you're posting.

    PA is the new Fire. Because you can easily meltdown enemies faster.

    PA is still the king of doing it from long range. It's also still the Alpha Strike king.
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