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Breaking Stuns, Holds, and Paralyze. WHY?!
omnilord
Posts: 348 Arc User
Why do I need to tap the button approximately 200 times to break these in under 5 seconds? I've tried all sorts of different patterns, but it seems the most effectively is to tap the button like I'm a methed up Flash. Why, why is this a thing and not something reasonable?
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And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
The only ones which would be problematic if you did that would be:
Roots (these seem to apply oddly)
Very fast stuns
Disable effects (fortunately these are quite rare.
Most of the time, enemies break their own holds by damaging you, it's mostly a case of being more aware of what's happening in combat, but there's always times where you can be caught out and that can be irritating, but I've only personally experienced that in PvP and in instances where CC from bosses cannot be resisted.
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https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/1207442/block-timing-explained
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
At Dino I typically block until she launches another attack after the stun just to make sure I won't die from being frozen, and sometimes I -still- have it applied anyways.
If it's all about timing then it's not really a good idea for it to be in a game notorious for latency issues. Especially when it literally comes down to the split second.
Obviously, my timing won't be perfect on every attempt, but if I'm blocking for a full second or more before the attack hits, the hit and the stun/hold should be blocked. In the noted occasions, I block the damage successfully, then release (often during or after the next attack starts hitting me), and then get mezzed.
And for the record, the Steam page on blocking in Champions claims that the block takes effect "instantly". I'm not sure how the author defines "instantly", but I've gone into block stance fully, then taken unblocked damage anyway. Pantagruel01's Note 2 seems to explain why.
I highly suggest you hit F12 and take that "Target Tell" box and move it to the bottom center of the screen and make it nice and big. Good luck!
It does sound like you are not maintaining block long enough though...
PSI Agents are pretty big offenders there, so can VIPER PA’s. However, most of the time blocking works if you are attentive to incoming effects and defend accordingly and early enough.
Bluhman made a vid which is helpful:
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I guess now it's just a matter of breaking myself of spamming the button to break free and finding an optimal pattern.
I use Space Bar for my interact key. I'm sure my roommates love it when I drum my fingers to break free. Especially when I run through the Warzone.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Those other games probably don't have a block mechanic which allows you to completely negate those effects.
This reminds me I used to have my interact key macro'd to spam itself but for some reason at some point that got undone... I'm gonna put that back to that.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I never claimed to be fast. I said that I block at the first sign of charging. I also said (and I cut and paste) "Obviously, my timing won't be perfect on every attempt", which means that I know that I won't always block fast enough. So what are you saying that I have to do? Predict the future so I can block effectively? What methods are available for that?
I never said anything about Cryptic or the game being responsible for any latency I might have. This statement was completely meaningless.
I mentioned the Steam page on blocking, which no one mentioned on this thread. The link to the Steam page is found on the page that you gave me, which means that I would have had to go to that page to know there was a Steam page on blocking in CO.
I don't know how to take this. First you do something helpful, then you act like a jerk.
When it comes to being dps at Dino if you're having trouble blocking and staying alive what you could do is just be extremely conservative at any point where a dps check isn't occuring. Only do what you have to do to keep your debuffs active and your form stacked, and otherwise block. Then when the dps check happens you'll be at full power. Momma doesn't attack and baby's aoes are ineffective during the dps check so you don't have to worry about blocking during the dps check. When it ends just go back to being conservative.
Now granted that won't help you get better at blocking the attacks and you'll have a lower score than you would if you attacked more, but it will lower the chances that you'll be running back after a death when a dps check occurs so it is a tactically sound strategy. Also you will get enough score to get rewards so you're not losing out in that respect. Ultimately what matters is that you're there and dpsing at full strength when the dps check occurs - nobody can complain that you're being conservative during the rest of the fight because by doing so you're making the fight more likely to succeed.
So yeah, both predictive blocking and highly defensive blocking strategies are things you can do.
Not sure how I'm acting like a jerk when I'm just stating reality. Remember that I did put forth two possibilities: either you're not as fast as you think you are, or you have terrible latency. The latter is obviously not your fault, but you wouldn't be the first one to fall into the first category. I know because I've been there. There are actually some very challenging block checks in this game and I've had to "git gud" a few times since the new content came out. That's what you should be hoping for: that you're just doing it wrong/slowly, because you can solve that by just focusing and doing it better. I've seen many people go from thinking they were fast enough to being fast enough, so that's why I know this is a thing.
If it's latency there's nothing you can do so, you know, definitely hope that that's not your situation. And on that topic my comment about the latency not being CO's fault was actually directed at something omnilord said. I forgot to break it off into its own response apparently ^_^;
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
This reply was good. Thanks for taking the time.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I have found a way around this. If I see an attack that I recognize as a mez, I block it and then count to six. I'm never held if I do this, though this may not apply to cosmics or TA, which I don't have much experience with.
Yup, and the annoyance is compounded by the fact that if you happen to be near something you can pick up, there's a chance you'll grab it if you're not careful. This of course means even more effective lockout time. That's just one more reason I'd love to see this game move away from the "F to break free" system it has now.
Also, bonus points if your keyboard is the kind with noisy clicky keys.
Edit: /netgraph 1 appears to be the command. /netgraph 0 to shut it off
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Any idea what constitutes a "bad" ping as opposed to a "good" one? Not sure I'm familiar with that.
EDIT
Wow does this thing fly around like that all the time? I did it twice. The first time it was between 75 & 135, then I zoned and it was between 55 and 125.
One difference in speaking to someone as opposed to web posts is that you can't hear the other person's tone. I thought I was used to it, maybe I wasn't as used to it as I thought.
I also have a few pet peeves I need to put down.
This doesn't mean I'm totally good with the way blocking works in this game, although it could actually be worse--blocking could just flat not work at all. Charge powers, if I'm reading the descriptions correctly, have a charge time and an activation time. Pyre, for example, has a max charge time of 1.83 seconds and an activation of .67s. So if you're fighting another hero, just for sake of example, you'd have to be aware of when your opponent began and ended charging, the split second length of the activation, and the time it takes for the power to reach you (which seems to be negligible, so I won't worry about that). So if you start to block before the charge completes or the opponent releases the button, it should be blocked (as long as you beat any latency + the local/server time difference). However, it doesn't seem to work the exact same way in certain circumstances that some of you have mentioned. It seems some checks occur during the charge rather than the activation, despite the way Pantagruel's post described it. (Though I'm sure Pantagruel did the best job possible, of course; very informative post and thanks for your efforts.)
I don't particularly like "realistic" games, but I do like a certain level of realism in games. For example, I find the juggling mechanic in some fighting games to be absurd. I mean really, repeal the laws of physics much?! Gravity gets reversed by punching and kicking!?
Think about it this way. Suppose you had a plastic toy shield from Walmart, and your friend throws a foam ball at you. You raise the shield, and the ball bounces off, hits the ground and rolls away, so you lower the shield. Then the ball stops rolling away, flies back up into the air, comes straight at you, and bounces off your head. That's kind of how I see the check mechanics as described for certain content. Focusing the block check on the activation time would be more sensible (in my opinion!), though I have to begrudgingly admit that even if it were, it would also make sense for certain things to defeat blocks, even if the damage & effects were still reduced.
But, you have to play the game you're handed, and something like this probably won't be changed in the course of the game; there are too many other things on the list, apparently. CO still has a lot going for it, in my opinion, so I'm still going to play until it's not fun anymore or until shutdown, whichever comes first. And it is still fun.
Also, as was mentioned earlier, I have seen NOWHERE that mezz mechanics are explained. I had no idea it was only a half-second check. I'm definitely going to slow down my mashing. If nothing else, this game at least needs better documentation.
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Say Squid Man attacks you with his tentacles and is trying to hold you with them. If you defend early enough then you've prepared well enough that his tentacles never really get a good hold, so when you let down your guard he just doesn't have a hold on you and you can kick him in the ink sack. If you defended too slowly but still managed to brace yourself, then now he has his tentacles around, but he has them around you as you're in a braced position meaning that when his Squiddy minions shoot ink at you you're not really gonna got hurt - however, the moment you relax that braced position his tentacles will tighten around you and you'll be had!
So in that way the block mechanics actually make sense. If you blocked too late, then you're essentially locked in a struggle with the hold and letting your guard down will let the hold get you. Some holds in the game actually let you know this is occurring because the stun effect appears in your debuffs so you can see that letting go of block will let it get you.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Seriously, the ones my character gives themselves I might recognize. The rest of them I don't pay any attention to since I have no idea what they are. Usually by the time I can mouseover a debuff icon it's expired and thus I didn't have time to read it. That and they keep moving around.
Quite frankly the hold system in this game is the single most confusing aspect of it to me. Especially since it's utterly worthless for players to attempt to use it against enemies.
The only thing that annoys me nearly as much is how knocks disable you and the disable will often last longer than the knock effect...
That and I still have no idea what "press to break free" even means. Most of the time it has no observable effect whatsoever. Waiting for the stupidity to wear off without tapping or mashing or holding or whatever seems to be just as fast most of the time.
Block timing seems to be utterly random. You have stuff like Gravi's yellow bubble where you have hold block until the damage tick pops up or die. Then you have the CC attacks like those used by the Qularr where blocking it halfway through the charge up is a waste of time since it's already too late...
And the stupid clap attack used by the alien gladiators in Forum Malvanum where either you block as soon as they start charging it or blocking it at all is largely a waste of time. Seriously, the amount of time you have to waste blocking that attack to avoid getting held is absurd. Or is it one of those things where if you hit the invisible block checks you can skip blocking during the rest of the charge up?
Which brings me to the other part that's super frustrating.... tiny otherwise unnoticeable amounts of lag will utterly ruin block timing.
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I would recommend testing in the PH to see if you can see the effect. Set up the testing room with enemies that have mezz's, hard enemies, set for 1 or 2 players. That way you should have a fairly small number of enemies, but will also be sure get held. Then tap your break-free button and see if you see numbers float up.
As you mentioned, sometimes it is just faster to take the hold than it is to block long enough to stop it.
For Alerts and most of everything else, I just ignore blocking CC's. I only worry about for Cosmics, and of the three original Cosmics, only Dino really has any relevant block issues. To be honest, the only way I finally learned how to block for Dino is through experience. Oh, I read the guides and such, but that didn't actually do me much good. I just had to learn the hard way what each attack looks like and when to block it. Now, I rarely take an unblocked bubble, but it took a LOT of practice to not spend most of my time blocking. When I am tanking Dino, I will still sometimes take a bite attack, but I'm blaming that on lag because I know I'm pressing the block button in time.
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.