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Bethesda Creation Club
I noticed some stuff being said about this in the gif thread, so I'm hoping we can instead divert that erupting volcano here so that the gif thread doesn't get dominated by an argument about paid mods for fifty pages. I'll start with what is sure to be an inflammatory statement:
I think the Creation Club is a great idea and Bethesda is on the right path with this.
The Steam Workshop version of paid mods was terrible. The way it was done it was basically just a great way for people to either (a) steal mod authors' work and sell it, and/or (b) bait and switch people with garbage mods. The end result of the curated workshop would have been a complete failure, nobody would have seriously tried to use it for the intended reason, and overall everyone would have resented the fact that everyone's mods keep getting stolen as soon as they were posted... and yeah, I think that literally every mod posted from that point on would have been stolen - even if the mod author posted it on the workshop first, copies would pop up repeatedly ( but this version, it's 10 cents cheaper - no buy this version, I removed the underpants! ).
Creation Club solves all the issues. Since they control who gets in, it's not just a free-for-all of mod thieves, and there's at least some quality control in place ( whether that quality control is good or not is debatable but is ultimately a "we'll see" thing - the point is it actually exists, unlike curated workshop ). Then there's the fact that there's the possibility of mod authors actually getting more resources at their disposal in producing mods than they would have had with just a "post your mods for a price" system. I'm also a bit giddy at the idea of certain mod authors becoming bethesda employees - specifically people who make combat and perk overhauls that dramatically increase the typically ho-hum versions of those systems that ship with the game.
The best part of Creation Club is that it doesn't cause anyone any grief. Mod authors don't have to worry about getting their work stolen, and mod users still get their free modding community which will stay very large and will see only some mods go the way of pay. The only grief is of course bugs and what not from the addition of the purchase system to the game itself ( tho personally as a bethesda game veteran bugs don't even bug me anymore - they'll get fixed soon enough ).
I know that some people really enjoyed their time during the grand rebellion against curated workshop where some mod authors were harassed so much that they quit modding altogether, where we proudly declared that we are entitled to free mods and that if the ones who produce them don't like it they'll get just the sassiest of sass, and where the modding community damaged itself over something that lasted like 3 days. This time around it seems like it's going to just be more a situation of some people saying they won't buy but others will and the Club will go forward - much less dramatic and ironic than the first time around. Though I'm sure some people will be happy to call anyone who disagrees a "corporate shill".
I think the Creation Club is a great idea and Bethesda is on the right path with this.
The Steam Workshop version of paid mods was terrible. The way it was done it was basically just a great way for people to either (a) steal mod authors' work and sell it, and/or (b) bait and switch people with garbage mods. The end result of the curated workshop would have been a complete failure, nobody would have seriously tried to use it for the intended reason, and overall everyone would have resented the fact that everyone's mods keep getting stolen as soon as they were posted... and yeah, I think that literally every mod posted from that point on would have been stolen - even if the mod author posted it on the workshop first, copies would pop up repeatedly ( but this version, it's 10 cents cheaper - no buy this version, I removed the underpants! ).
Creation Club solves all the issues. Since they control who gets in, it's not just a free-for-all of mod thieves, and there's at least some quality control in place ( whether that quality control is good or not is debatable but is ultimately a "we'll see" thing - the point is it actually exists, unlike curated workshop ). Then there's the fact that there's the possibility of mod authors actually getting more resources at their disposal in producing mods than they would have had with just a "post your mods for a price" system. I'm also a bit giddy at the idea of certain mod authors becoming bethesda employees - specifically people who make combat and perk overhauls that dramatically increase the typically ho-hum versions of those systems that ship with the game.
The best part of Creation Club is that it doesn't cause anyone any grief. Mod authors don't have to worry about getting their work stolen, and mod users still get their free modding community which will stay very large and will see only some mods go the way of pay. The only grief is of course bugs and what not from the addition of the purchase system to the game itself ( tho personally as a bethesda game veteran bugs don't even bug me anymore - they'll get fixed soon enough ).
I know that some people really enjoyed their time during the grand rebellion against curated workshop where some mod authors were harassed so much that they quit modding altogether, where we proudly declared that we are entitled to free mods and that if the ones who produce them don't like it they'll get just the sassiest of sass, and where the modding community damaged itself over something that lasted like 3 days. This time around it seems like it's going to just be more a situation of some people saying they won't buy but others will and the Club will go forward - much less dramatic and ironic than the first time around. Though I'm sure some people will be happy to call anyone who disagrees a "corporate shill".
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I don't play on consoles so I haven't been paying attention but does Jim address your points?
luckily, if someone actually pulls that **** in future bethesda ES or fallout games, someone will just release a free version of it - unless bethesda refuses to release the creation kit for said future games to non-club members, which is something i totally see them doing
on the plus side, if this actually gets through its rocky start and lasts to the next game, those seasonal DLC passes will suddenly become a WAY better deal than they were for FO4 (assuming, of course, bethesda continues releasing new passes for future games and they include major creation club content - if it did at all, it probably wouldn't include minor things like extra weapons/armor or reskins)
More or less addresses the problems I have with Creation Club.
And I don't for a second buy the BS reasoning of Bethesda wanting to enforce "quality control" when it comes to mods. Give me a break. Bethesda isn't interested in mod quality control. What's being offered right now in the Creation Club is of absolute dismal quality compared to what you can find at Nexus. Bethesda isn't even interested in quality control for their own games. Modders actually have to fix the bugs left in their games because Bethesda stopped giving a **** after getting all the game sales. They just want to introduce a micro-transaction business model into a premium-paid game (oh how I love this new trend /s) and are using paid mods disguised as "mini DLCs" to justify implementing that business model. Heck, you can't even directly pay for the stuff in the Creation Club, you have to buy credits at tiered payment levels so that you are always buying more credits than you actually need.
It's probably too early to call it, but I won't be surprised if Bethesda ends community mod support for their future games while trying to push their paid mod system. I mean come on, you really think Bethesda coming out with this Creation Club thing is going to be okay with it co-existing with Nexus pumping out non-paid mods and leaving their games mod-friendly down the road? Ironically it is the mod community that is helping keep their games relevant and popular. Heck, there are still mods being made till this day for Oblivion.
I'll feel far better justified in donating to the modders at Nexus who make great quality mods, who give a crap about quality, rather than give Bethesda money to support such an underhanded business practice that exists to milk milk milk their customers.
I don't really debate micro-transactions because businesses are made to make money. I don't get on Subway's case because they try to sell me cookies at the register.
"Bethesda doesn't have quality control, Bethesda doesn't care about quality, their games have bugs!"
Silly. How anyone can look at the huge detailed game worlds that Bethesda produces and come away with the impression that they're just churning out crap to make a quick buck is beyond me. I've played games that fit that definition and I certainly didn't put hundreds of hours into them the way I do Bethesda games ( which I did even back when I played them on console with no mods or community patch ). Simply put, if the games were as terrible as people claim they are, those people wouldn't play them and hence wouldn't really care about mods or creation club.
"Bethesda might shut down support for modding and that's why this is bad!"
Bethesda might cancel production of the elder scrolls and fallout series permanently. They might only start producing them as mmos. They might build a big rocket and fly to the moon. Lots of things could happen, but nothing has been announced to indicate that any of them will. How would I feel if Bethesda stopped providing modding tools? Oh well. We're not entitled to those tools - there's thousands of game companies out there that don't provide such tools and nobody's getting angry with them over it. And even if it does happen I bet I'll be playing the next elder scrolls and fallout games for hundreds of hours since it's been proven that mods aren't required for that. So far nothing's been announced and discussing all the terrible awful things that could happen seems like a real time waster.
The way that Bethesda modeled the creation club makes it clear that they are happy with it coexisting with the free modding community and have no interest in taking over the entire thing and shutting out hobbyists.
Also, how can you even rationalize them doing that? If they stop providing those tools, then where will they find modders to bring into the creation club?
"The stuff on creation club right now is junk."
Wal-mart's selection of cakes is terrible.
"I'd rather donate to nexus modders than buy from Creation Club."
And you can do that. I have. Funny thing is, the ones I donated to were guys who made huge mods with hundreds of thousands of downloads, big endorse counts, and pages of praise in their discussion section. But each time I donated to these guys their reaction was "oh wow someone actually donated!". Turns out, most people don't share our desire to support modders, even the ones who have very obviously put hundreds ( or even thousands ) of hours into their work. It's made me think that Bethesda trying to figure out a way to get some money into at least some modder's hands doesn't make them the bad guys just because they'd be making money too.
"If they try to make mods paid, someone will just make a free version."
Maybe. We'll see how that plays out, if it happens at all. I have my doubts that anything like SKSE will end up on creation club. If it does though I'm excited at the possibility that those SKSE guys will get some team support - as we can see with their current efforts, things have kinda slowed down. It actually wouldn't surprise me if Bethesda brings in the SKSE guys, pays them, and puts SKSE up for free - it'd be a smart business move for sure.
"This youtube guy said a thing tho!"
Only person on youtube whose opinion has any credibility with me is this guy.
I didn't watch the videos so if you want my opinion on anything in them you'll have to relay it here. Or get a sax playing dog to talk about it.
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Also apples, oranges. Care to explain how the stand-up people at Nexus who make the effort to actually fix bugs in the games when Bethesda had all the tools to do it considering that gee, they're the actual game developers? See, this is just another thing that just irks me; they obviously can put in the time and resources to develop these paid mods to sell, yet they can't do the same in fixing outstanding bugs?
Personally I don't think the games are "terrible" content-wise. I've played them. I enjoyed Skyrim. Fallout games too but not as much. Oblivion remains as my all time favorite. Bethesda has a well-known track record for not fixing their ****. The console versions have it worse.
And let's face it, the games being very moddable is a huge reason why the games are as popular as they are. The PC versions of the game are always going to be recommended over their console counterparts due to the fact that mods exist for the PC. I know for a fact that when I purchased Skyrim it wasn't long before I was exploring all the juicy mods that just came out on Nexus soon after launch, and I won't be surprised if lots of other people have similar experiences. Well sure, lots of other game companies don't make their games easily moddable. Those game companies don't provide the tools. So what? We're not talking about the other games. We're talking about Bethesda games that for the longest time have had vibrant modding communities and mods have become something of an expected feature when talking about Bethesda games.
Nobody gets angry with those other companies because that precedent wasn't set with their games. The modding community for Bethesda games has become an ingraned culture for games like Oblivion or Fallout 3 /4 because the community is passionate about them.
Where do you think Bethesda got their idea for Creation Club anyway? That's right, the modding community, because the modding community is that significant. As far as I'm concerned they're taking full, undeserved credit for coming up with the idea for an ingame mod system and seeking to profit from it. If that means shutting out community mods from ever being compatible with their games in the future and you don't see the moral problem with that, then I don't know what else to say. There is absolutely nothing about how the Creation Club is being promoted that points to Bethesda being happy with it coexisting with the free modding community, untill I see something more concrete. Objectively identical if not better quality Power Armor reskins, the Chinese stealth armor, Gauss rifle and Modular backpacks exist in Nexus. The modding community isn't in it to make money primarily, Bethesda is, and if free community mods became an obstacle to them making money then no surprises if Bethesda decides to block out community mods outright.
Then again, it's too early to call that, I'll wait and see. Wal-mart has terrible cakes. Stuff on Creation Club is meh. Okay then?
I mean if the point you're trying to make is "you don't have to pay for it if you don't want to", at least Wal-mart doesn't make its customers buy credits at fixed amount tiers in order to buy their cakes. Yeah I'll take that with a grain of salt. Bethesda's main interest is to make money with what modders make. They're not introducing Creation Club with charitable hearts of seeing that modders get rewarded for their hard work. They want modders to make content that I'm pretty sure Bethesda will ultimately own under some contract agreement, and it's just one more thing I wouldn't be entirely agreeing with if it turns out to be that. Yeah we could go the smug, condescending passive-aggressive route of discussion that you seem to like using. I'm not that interested though.
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One of these days, I'm going to get the DLC for Fallout 4, so I can visit places like Far Harbor, build my own vault, and set my own robot designs to protect my settlements. Meanwhile, I'm having fun with all the free mods that are still available (well, for some reason Cheat Menu corrupts all my saves so that I can't get into anyplace in Cambridge between CIT and Monsignor Plaza, so I can't get to Greenetech Genetics to take down the Courser, but that's solved by not using Cheat Menu). When this "Creation Club" thing appeared, I was fearful that all mods would now be pay-only, which would severely cut into the game's replayability, but thus far there's been no sign this will happen. (In fact, in the past few days I've been able to replace a couple of mods that gave me new settlements with newer varieties that use up about half the hard-drive space.)
Oh, and I've even found one mod, Radioactive Stories, that expands on the game by putting in a series of side-quests, with a humorous tinge to them. So far, I've completed "The Fate of Jake Whitfield" and "The Hunt For Red November". (If you want to do that second story, I strongly recommend getting Aqua Boy/Girl perk level one, so you can swim without drowning or getting irradiated - the clues are located underwater, as is the resolution.)
So this Creation Club thing isn't causing me any tsuris - I don't worry about what a game company "might do" in the future, as one of the things I know that they will do is stop supporting the game at all at some point.
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https://youtu.be/qNrAKA3-Ddg
One minute and five seconds of your time to see what it could be like.
Everyone talks about the bugs that made it into the release, nobody talks about the bugs they fixed before release ( because they don't know about them). I got Fallout 4 day one, played it all day, no outstanding bugs encountered. I'm sure your experience was very different. So because somebody gave you something for free for a long time, you're going to get upset when they stop giving you the free thing? That's not a line of thinking I can agree with. They're under no obligation to keep releasing the creation kit.
You're making a lot of "this is just my opinion" claims here that I've seen no real evidence for. That's fine, just letting you know that's why I don't really feel the need to respond to them.
As for that last statement, I don't see the moral problem with that, so I guess you don't know what to say to get me to agree with your opinion on the matter.
The point I was actually making is that sometimes some people don't like something, and others do - sometimes that first group thinks they're being objective. Like me on wal-mart cakes... I think they're objectively terrible and why would anyone like them? Someone out there is buying them though.
That other point about "you don't have to buy it" is a good one too thought, thanks for mentioning that.
That "charitable hearts" thing is a bit of a strawman, especially after I've made sure to include the idea that bethesda is a business that's trying to make money in several statements. If you want to argue about someone with that, you'll have to find someone who thinks that first - I personally don't know anyone.
And yes, the content produced via Creation Club is likely to be owned by Bethesda. Just like they own the content that their various employees help to produce. Why should the modder retain sole ownership? They're not making it by themselves anymore. That's how it works in game production - if an employee decides to leave the project they can't just say "and you're not allowed to use what I made, I'm taking it with me!".
I posted a video of a dog playing a saxaphone. If you're offended by that and seeing "condescending passive-aggressive routes" then I think you might be taking this topic too seriously. I just didn't want to spend my time watching videos by people who's opinion I couldn't care less about. Jim is kind of a joke in my eyes.
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You're positive that this is a good business direction for Bethesda to take, I really don't think so. Also I'm not a fan of Bethesda hamfisting 2GB of extra preloaded Creation Club content (nice bloatware) with their new patch even when I have no interest of buying them.
Wait and see is the only real choice we have. Not like we can actually do anything with our speculation. Wait and see is certainly better than "don't wait, condemn immediately for things that might happen!".
PS - one thing I forgot to mention before. People implying that bethesda is doing something wrong for putting chinese stealth suit up on the thing might be forgetting that bethesda made it first.
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Let's be realistic. The only reason games like Skyrim, Oblivion, and the Fallout series (under Bethesda not the original games) even get played as much as they do, is because of the modding. The actual content of said games is bare bones, and the bugs in said games make them often unplayable. Most of the time it is the modders that make those games memorable, not Bethesda, and if it wasn't for that simple fact of modding, Bethesda would most likely be known for delivering, buggy games that tend to crash PCs more than work most of the time, and it is thanks to the modding that their games are even so highly regarded.
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It [i]would[/i] be nice if becoming Acting Director of the Institute meant that I could change their policies so they could start working [i]with[/i] the Minutemen and the Railroad, rather than [i]against[/i] them (there are synth sympathizers in the Institute, including the deputy director of the Robotics division), but I can also understand that the folks at Bethesda might not have been able to work that kind of ethical flexibility into the code. (That's a big part of why I prefer tabletop RPGs, which are limited primarily by what the GM is willing to accept - I can argue with a GM, I can't argue with the code.)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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and that's one of the reasons why i liked FNV a bit more than FO3 - could join caesar's legion in the former, couldn't join the enclave in the latter
Foxi why you do this?
I mean there is a reason that people prefer New Vegas over Fallout 3, because the story is just better there and felt more like the original Fallout games. Bethesda just created a spectacle and throughout the game, all you get is this sensation of them trying to ramrod a plot and as it progresses further and further you get a keen sense that even Bethesda forgot how that plot was suppose to go because events happen out of left field for no reason.
It's a terrible mess, even Skyrim suffered from this problem, it just had the saving grace of being short.
Again the only reason Bethesda games are highly remembered is the modding community. And every single time, the modding community is the reason bugs are fixed and their games are optimized (hello long load times even on a machine with 1080 GTX card and an i7 CPU processor). Anyone could see, though, with FO4 that Bethesda was looking to monetize modding again though, because they kept doing their level best to shut out the Nexus modders by constantly changing how the start up worked and kept delaying the modding toolkit at almost every convenience. And it was an intentional change. So much so I got tired of having to update my files so I could play anymore and said to hell with it. The last straw for me is when they gave the biggest middle finger to players that played with mods and shut off achievements completely. That's essentially when I said nope. A company that prides itself on its modding community then tells them to **** off in the same breath.
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Also these games made plenty of sales on consoles pre-mods. I played FO3, Oblivion, and Morrowind on console, no mods, hundreds of hours.
You may not like these games, but lots of people clearly do - even without mods.
http://time.com/1875/at-20-million-copies-sold-skyrim-is-in-the-top-20-bestselling-games-of-all-time/
https://steamdb.info/app/72850/graphs/
^ shows 12 million owners on steam.
Mind you that 20 million is from 2014, so the number is likely higher by this point but the 12 million is current.
At least 8 million owners of Skyrim did not care about mods. 8 million+ people disagree with the idea that Bethesda games need mods to be considered worth playing.
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Furthermore, one of the things FO4 gets blasted for is the story line and the now weak DLC updates that came with far harbor and nuka DLC updates, not counting those micro updates as well. And again, Bethesda actively discouraged modding from outside modders that weren't going through their own system and even hampered the creation kit to make it more difficult for modders to make new content and even missions and stories, like they did a lot for FO3 and New Vegas.
And to add insult to injury, these paid mods, which the value you get depends on which currency package you by ($1.07 for 100 points at the smallest package and around $0.53 for 100 point at the highest if I recall the math done by fans), are of lesser quality than the free ones you can get from the modding community. I mean 50 points for reskinned PipBoy recoloing, and 500 points for a power armor suit that is of much better quality on the Nexus? Or 100 points just to have black as a color, something modders have been doing for FO4 since day 1. They try to yoke it as quality control, but it isn't. It stinks of a cash grab of the worst kind and they've continuously tried to lock nexus modders out with this system.
And again, even if it's just a simple mod to fix their buggy programming and poor optimization, they still shut down the achievements even though no other benefit is gained in the game beyond your client will look and/or run better. No super weapons or anything of the sort. That just falls under shadey and duplicitous.
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1) Script Extenders for FO4 and Skyrim have to be updated each time Bethesda rolls out a patch, and since Bethesda is pushing the Creation Club and obviously want to add in as many paid mods as frequently as possible, it could mean more frequent game patches and the maker of the Script Extenders would have to play catch-up all the time with new updates. Keep in mind Script Extenders are entirely volunteer work.
2) Bethesda has stated in the Creation Club web page that paid mods can only be used with original content, obviously meaning base unmodded vanilla game. Since Creation Club is hard coded into the game and its content is being downloaded into the game system folder automatically whether they are unlocked or not, wouldn't this create a fundamental conflict with community mods? That would go against whole Bestheda is okay with Creation Club coexisting with community mods mindset.
2) Wait and see.
@Silver - you need to accept that not everybody has the same opinion as you on this. There are huge numbers of sales of these games on consoles where there are no mods, all the way back to Morrowind. These games are enjoyed by many people without mods. If all you're saying is "I don't like the games without mods" that's fine but that cannot be used to support the claim that Bethesda doesn't care about their games or doesn't put enough time, money, or effort into them. You simply do not get the following that Bethesda has without time and effort, and the sales numbers show conclusively that it is not mods that made them popular. If anything the mods came second - the games made modding worth it, not the other way around. When you add in the bugs it actually makes the games even more impressive, because they've become so popular in spite of the bugs. Bad games that didn't have real time and effort put in would have died immediately from that... not gone on to spawn sequel after sequel.
To me the story line and dlc of Fallout 4 are fine. You disagree - that's fine, opinions and all that. As for Creation Club prices - just go ahead and don't buy anything, problem solved. If enough people think like you do maybe the prices will go down - if they don't, then you weren't part of the majority on this one.
As for that last paragraph, the game ran fine for me without the patch - I more installed it out of habit than anything. Keep in mind that a lot of what's in those patches is pretty minor fixes, and often can even be stylistic alterations that aren't technically fixes at all. If someone wanted to run the game without it so they could get achievements, they could go right ahead. One could say that getting achievements is just as important as putting the main character in a hatsune miku outfit after all.
PS - if you look at the global achievement stats, it looks like a pretty standard spread for the game, so clearly there are some people out there playing without any mods, including the patch. Hell, 25% of owners have the reach level 50 achievement.
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On the other hand, when Elder Lyons was still in charge down in the Capitol Wasteland, the Brotherhood really was benevolent. (Sure, that was partly because Lyons was tired of enforcing the Brotherhood's will on a populace that didn't see the need, and partly because they were also occupied with fighting Col. Autumn and his Enclave troops, but still.)
The only way I managed to get the Brotherhood to be anything I'd call "benevolent" was when I downloaded a mod that was based on discarded Bethesda code. Apparently, it had originally been possible for you to challenge Elder Maxson for leadership, under the terms of the Codex, and the option would come up if you declined to execute Danse for his sin, but that was commented out. Then I was able to install Danse as the new Elder (I could have become Elder myself, but I didn't want to). The same modder also introduced a loop that made it possible to talk the Brotherhood out of destroying the Railroad, so the two didn't have to be mortal enemies. In the vanilla story, though, the Brotherhood only lets the Minutemen live as a subjugated force; the Railroad and Institute both have to be destroyed.
If you wanted to be a bad guy, though, that was easy enough. Just think about the Institute's aim for a moment - the nicer guys among them would be content to let humanity on the surface die out through benign neglect, but there's considerable pressure to just sent an army of Gen 1s out to put them out of their misery. Then, of course, everyone gets replaced by Gen 3s - "Mankind Redefined" and all that. And Father wants you to take over as Acting Director after he dies. And if you do, you aren't given the option to change their goals - it's assumed you've bought into the genocide of the humans in the 'Wealth. Sounds pretty "bad guy" to me.
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And jon, you must not be playing the same game I am, because I was well into the institute plotline, and they are played up exactly like that, benevolent crusaders. The only time they come up as morally grey is when they kick what's his name to the curb for finding out he was a synth, but otherwise, the Brotherhood is proven to be 100% right regardless of which path or how you run the story. Even your 'choices" at the end, the institute still comes out as basically the over all bad guys, because of their methods.
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PS - went to start up F4 and it wouldn't start. "Gasp, could they be right?! Is it the Bethpocalypse!". Nope, same fix as last time an update did this, fixed in under a minute. Think maybe some people just aren't as good as I am... aaaaaas usual [insert some emote here]
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The fact that the script editor is broken every time that the Creation Club is updated is not rumor or speculation either.
The fact that Bethesda, with every major patch to FO4, has changed things just enough that breaks mods forcing the Nexus modders to have to edit files again is not a rumor or speculation. In fact, one of their updates, unless you did a specific thing a specific way, the file that had to be fixed to allow modding would reset itself every time you launched the game and required additional editting to keep it from doing that.
And considering that many in the community are not happy with this change hardly makes it an echo chamber.
And this one is rumor, but if it's true, it's a scumbag thing from Bethesda. If this is true, Bethesda is paying modders an upfront fee, which supposedly is anywhere from $100 to under $1000 bucks, and after that, Bethesda claims all rights to the mod. However, if the mod is wildly successful on the Creation Club, Bethesda gets 100% of the money and modders do not see any royalties from their work. And if this is true this is just bad, because that Hellfire Power Armor that sells for 500 points on the market (let's just call it $5) and low ball and say 5,000 of them sold that month, that's $25,000 dollars made off that and Bethesda gets all that and the modder doesn't see a dime.
I still haven't seen a point or even purpose to the Creation Club beyond the stingy PS4 practices. You haven't even made a solid case for it. You claim steam workshop paid mods was terrible, but at least the people were getting paid for their mods, even if it was only a fraction of the value. Modders are now potentially looking at being paid even less for their work especially if it takes off, and if the rumor is true, Bethesda gets all the rights and can even use that product in future games without having to pay royalties.
Claiming it's echo chambering just isn't true, to claim that the Creation Club is a good thing is just false equivalency at this point. This is going to cause harm to the actual modding community long and short term, not bolster it. As the modding community has already been reeling from the double standards Bethesda has taken with mods in FO4.
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They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
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And while I agree that the mods in question were created by Bethesda in FO3, modders still brought said armor to FO4 first and in the case of future updates or even these now, if they endanger revenue from the Creation Club, how long before Bethesda starts issuing take down notices?
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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this new creation club thing...ok yeah it is a 2gb patch worth of things I will probably never use...other than that tho... I've got no strong feelings one way or the other
Nice try, but your turn around attempt won't work. You know why? I showed evidence to backup my claim. Millions of people disagree with you. Once you can accept that, and accept that their opinions matter just as much as yours, and that your opinion is not "just a simple fact" then we can have a discussion. Until then all the essays are just more stuff to go bounce around in the echo chambers.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
You are essentially trying to say that people can have their cake and eat it to, but this policy and system has been anti-modder and anti-consumer under the false guise of quality control. Plain and simple. Bethesda can't say they value their modders and want themt o thrive, while at the same time doing everything they can to hinder the modders.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Actually, if we look at historic precedent, content is routinely taken down from the Nexus because it infringes on copyright, including Bethesda's. If I'm backpeddling, it's only down the road of history which completely supports my statement. Living in harmony with modding doesn't mean letting them steal your stuff.
You need to look in the mirror on this one. You're claiming your opinions are facts, remember?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
It's like saying that BvS was an awesome movie because it made a worldwide of $873 million despite holding a 27% on rotten tomatoes. Just because something sold that much doesn't mean that many people enjoyed it.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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And I find it funny when you present your feels as evidence when I've actually been giving video evidence from said content creators who are passionate about this subject. Many of them having been loyal Bethesda fans for a long time.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Let's not pretend that there's a resounding applause from the player community and how the Creation Club is something being extremely hyped right now; it's not. It's a hot topic of controversy at the moment. Controversy of this degree usually isn't an effect of a product that gives off the impression that it's critically-acclaimed.
Also Nepht wasn't wrong about saying that Creation Club is currently bloatware, because it really is. If I'm playing a single player game and I don't purchase DLCs, there's no reason why said DLC files should be downloaded to my storage drive without me asking. Same concept goes for Creation Club content.
Btw just curious, question for both of you. How many hours have each of you logged in Fallout 4? Would love to see a screenshot of your hours on Steam, just for curiosity's sake, no gotcha.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The Like to Dislike ratio is definitely an indication of a backlash and has weight to to it. If you want to personally dismiss everything youtube-related as noise not worthy of your attention, that's your prerogative. It doesn't omit the fact that how the Creation Club is presented isn't exactly worthy of hype and is attracting a lot of negative feedback.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
> If you want to personally dismiss everything youtube-related as noise not worthy of your attention, that's your prerogative. It doesn't omit the fact that how the Creation Club is presented isn't exactly worthy of hype and is attracting a lot of negative feedback.
>
> It doesn't say anything to that either way really. My disregard for youtube stuff doesn't really effect the situation.
I've yet to see any real indication that suggests that the situation is leaning towards well-received as a majority viewpoint.
And yes, Foxi, I know you've been skimming. You haven't really read anything and just ignoring real evidence and facts. I mean I find it hilarious that the actual issues modders have been having with FO4 you try to call it opinion.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Your idea of what constitutes facts in this matter is highly suspect. Sorry, but until you can admit that your opinion is not a fact there's no conversation to be had. Bethesda makes great games that are well worth playing without mods.
If you're under the impression that I'm trying to say that the launch of CC was perfect, then you imagined me saying that. If you're under the impression that I'm commenting on the quality of what's offered on CC, you imagined me saying that. If you're under the impression that I'm saying there's no bugs, you imagined me saying that. Go ahead, look through my posts and try to find where I said any of that.
Bethesda aren't doing anything immoral, they aren't doing anything shady. They're expanding their service and offering more products - that expansion is an opportunity for some modders to get in on it and get a paycheck. You'll never convince me that Bethesda is taking advantage of anyone by offering the potential for contract work to modders. 2 more gb added on to a game doesn't phase me. I certainly don't care about dislike bars and youtube videos - I actually find it kind of humorous that you're presenting those as being any more meaningful to the situation than our own forum posts. Next you're going to try to present "review bombing" on steam as something that matters.
PS - you don't read videos.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!