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spinnytop

Do you think an AI can process the feeling of gratitude?

( I'm asking for theme reasons )

Sub-question: How would an AI express weeping?

aesica

spinnytop wrote: »

Do you think an AI can process the feeling of gratitude?

Why wouldn't it? What the AI can process depends on what it was designed (or what it has learned on its own) to process.

spinnytop wrote: »

Sub-question: How would an AI express weeping?

In addition to my previous answer, it's important to understand what emotion(s) "weeping" is an outward expression of as well as why we even express this in the first place. AI is something humans need to be careful not to anthropomorphize because of how radically different an AI can be in comparison to our own form of intelligence. That said, one intended to mimic humanity both physically and mentally as closely as possible could express sorrow or joy or whatever through all the same body language as us, while one less human in appearance and demeanor could display something in a different color, alter its tone, outright state its change in mood, or even nothing at all. The need to "express" itself through weeping may not be important to it, even if it was able to feel the relevant emotions.

TL;DR: As varied as AI can be, there really is no right or wrong answer. Be creative, go nuts, etc. It could be anything from realistic tears to flames shooting out of its exhaust pipe to KILL ALL HUMANS. You decide!​​

catstarsto

No matter what you program a computer to do, its still just running programs.
https://youtu.be/TnUYcTuZJpM
even any shown emotion would just be a pre-programmed reaction to seem more human. But if its allowed to learn it could be like a new lifeform like those Excomps in star trek tng.
https://youtu.be/JTOMNkZJRao
But even humans are living robots, with pre-programmed set of codes that make us grow and function the way we do (DNA) is a living super computer. But feeling the same way as a human would be impossible given they would be a new life form and would follow a new set of rules, how and if they feel might be entirely different concept then we would understand given we are breaking new ground. Mammals are as different to robotic coding as we are to vegetation. Vegetation (plants/trees/fungus) have their own processes and while its been experimented with using music to influence them, they follow a whole other set of functions then us, even their thought process is chemical and not bio electric like us. So if they did feel or have an emotional experience we most likely wouldnt know it, nor would they be able to express it to us since it would be a whole new experience being discovered....like if someone seen green and blue as red and orange, and no matter how ou tried to explain it we would still just see things as we normally do...their cold colors would remain warm and they would just know them as cold even though they are warm. because we cant see through another eyes.

jennymachx

Everything about AI is computer algorithms. Whatever computer coding the AI entity is running on can be customized for it to react to whatever it is the creator of the AI intends for it to do. Sure, you can program the AI to show gratitude. You hand over something that is of practical benefit to the AI entity, its programming and whatever optical scanner it has to identify the gift tells it to show gratitude, even happiness, in an artificially responsive manner. You can do something like physically hit the AI entity, its programming and whatever sensors involved to register the hit as a form of physical abuse to tell the AI that it should "feel" pain and make sad sobbing noises. At the same time the AI can be programmed to detect signs of rejection and abandonment that lead it to "feel" sorrow.

But it's all simulated. The programming algorithms can be made for the AI entity to mimic human emotions, even if they are artificial. At least that's how I understand how AI can realistically "show" emotions since it's all computer code. If we want push our imaginations further we can assume that the AI's programming aka "brain" eventually gets so complex and advanced that it starts to really wonder what it's like to experience human emotions because it's aware that what it's "feeling" is all just a simulation consisting of a whole bunch of complicated computer code.

That's where self-awareness comes in for better or worse. Better would be a form of never-ending curosity to learn more about human behavior. Data from Star Trek: TNG is a good example. Worse would be a self-aware AI loathing its existence since it desires to understand humanity and to be human but can never do so, and it knows humanity has created it. It's going to hate humanity as well and become some evil robot bent on either ruling humanity or destroying it completely.

TL;DR: The AI's programming "fakes it", but it can be aware of its own programming "faking it" and might desire to understand how human emotions actually work.

nepht

It can get pretty complicated. Here is the code Dr Deflecto's wrote for Nepht's thought algorithms.

10 print "NO YOU!"
20 go to 10

pantagruel01

spinnytop said:

Do you think an AI can process the feeling of gratitude?

Depends what sort of AI we're talking about. Real-world AI mostly not though some have ratings algorithms that serve a similar purpose. True artificial sapient being, sure.

spinnytop said:

Sub-question: How would an AI express weeping?

aesica

nepht wrote: »

It can get pretty complicated. Here is the code Dr Deflecto's wrote for Nepht's thought algorithms.

10 print "NO YOU!"
20 goto 10

Fixed.​​

legendarylycan

aesica wrote: »

nepht wrote: »

It can get pretty complicated. Here is the code Dr Deflecto's wrote for Nepht's thought algorithms.

10 print "NO YOU!"
20 goto 10

Fixed.

fixed what? it's the exact same thing​​

aesica

shadowfang240 wrote: »

fixed what? it's the exact same thing

"goto" was the command for jumping to a specific line number, not "go to"

Very minor fix, but when it comes to code, those minor fixes make the difference between something that works and something that doesn't.​​

nepht

But it was made up code made up by a made up zombeh badger to run a made up undead robot cat :U

ealford1985

What if...we are all made up? Am I made up! What if I made up made up....who is making my bed? Is the maid up? Is she wearing make up? Kiss...kiss and makeup? Gene Simmon...Simmons, Richard....little...piano pian.....oh? Oh....sounds like CO! CO made us?

It all makes too much sense now.

aesica

ealford1985 wrote: »

What if...we are all made up? Am I made up!

It's possible. What if the universe as we know it is nothing more than a simulation--an extremely advanced version of The Sims which some sweaty, nerdy alien is running in his parents' basement. And what if he and his universe is also a simulation? We could be simulations within a simulation, which could also be within another simulation!

nepht wrote: »

But it was made up code made up by a made up zombeh badger to run a made up undead robot cat :U

Undead robot cat, you say?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HnwhGgsgXc​​

flyingfinn

It can evolve.

catstarsto

I think its disgusting to do that to any animal. I hate taxidermy, we arent cavemen...but some can be barbarians! Whats next, shrunken heads?....ear necklaces?!


...and someone had the nerve to flag my "stay out of the fire meme" but this is ok... >.>

nepht

aesica said:

Undead robot cat, you say?



​​

Undead robot cats can now fly. The human race is now royally f&^%ed.

beezeeze

catstarsto said:

I think its disgusting to do that to any animal. I hate taxidermy, we arent cavemen...but some can be barbarians! Whats next, shrunken heads?....ear necklaces?!


...and someone had the nerve to flag my "stay out of the fire meme" but this is ok... >.>

One of those things is an animal that has already died beforehand and the other is the painful suffering of a living human being.
Taxidermy is a bit of a creepy hobby I'll admit but making jokes out of people who are in the process of burning alive is just cruel. The cat did not suffer(as far as we can tell) That man certainly did.

avianos

catstarsto wrote: »

...and someone had the nerve to flag my "stay out of the fire meme" but this is ok... >.>

Your funny MAYMAY n00b picture was showing a man trying to commit SUICIDE by setting himself on fire with GASOLINE while a Policeman was running to save him

C O M E D Y
G O L D​​

catstarsto

beezeeze said:

One of those things is an animal that has already died beforehand and the other is the painful suffering of a living human being.
Taxidermy is a bit of a creepy hobby I'll admit but making jokes out of people who are in the process of burning alive is just cruel. The cat did not suffer(as far as we can tell) That man certainly did.

Im not a fan of displaying corpses or remains. And no matter how one tries to justify it, its gruesome and vulgar. But I dought anyone is grossed out by anything in this day and age...given the state of our culture!

avianos said:

Your funny MAYMAY n00b picture was showing a man trying to commit SUICIDE by setting himself on fire with GASOLINE while a Policeman was running to save him



C O M E D Y

G O L D​​

At first I thought it was a stupid human trick like the guy with the hammer to complete my joke...im not defending the post now that i know it was not a stunt, but usually people jump at a chance to openly condemn something about me, not do so quietly. So I was curious to see who it was....and you didnt let me down.

avianos

catstarsto wrote: »

At first I thought it was a stupid human trick like the guy with the hammer to complete my joke...im not defending the post now that i know it was not a stunt, but usually people jump at a chance to openly condemn something about me, not do so quietly. So I was curious to see who it was....and you didnt let me down.

You are so Insensitive for someone who masquerade himself behind "funny" lolcats, oh no you exposed me whatever shall I do now? Well definitely not letting you post a image where a real person tried to commit SUICIDE
EVERYONE who knew the original image would report it because it broke the forums' rules which you violated


AND THAT WAS OBVIOUSLY NOT A STUNT How the HELL did you think that was a STUNT? There was NOTHING in that picture that suggested it was a stunt

I watched it myself on the news when this happened, there is nothing funny about it

Absolutely Disgusting​​

baelogventure

Silly Foxi, robots don't have feelings. They're uncaring, unthinking machines that only perform whatever task they were programmed for.

catstarsto

avianos said:

You are so Insensitive for someone who masquerade himself behind "funny" lolcats, oh no you exposed me whatever shall I do now? Well definitely not letting you post a image where a real person tried to commit SUICIDE

EVERYONE who knew the original image would report it because it broke the forums' rules which you violated




{{LINK REMOVED BY CAT ON PRINCIPLE}}

AND THAT WAS OBVIOUSLY NOT A STUNT How the HELL did you think that was a STUNT? There was NOTHING in that picture that suggested it was a stunt



I watched it myself on the news when this happened, there is nothing funny about it



Absolutely Disgusting ​​

I googled for the meme, that was one of them, written as a meme...there was no video about it, you posting a different link under different dialogue was deceptive though, but not very bright of you once again...after condemning for linking an image that broke the rules you went and did the same thing...wow XD . Your crocodile tears over it arent convincing. Your overreaction to this can get humorous, it was worth it to watch you try and save face when you had no reason to. lol You have nothing to prove to any of us, take it easy friend. Despite your paranoia a few of you have about me, Im not your enemy! In fact im easy to get along with when given the chance.

ealford1985

Catstarsto, this is one of those times you should have just said, "my apologies" regarding posting something very offensive and said nothing more.

You're inability to just...hush, is digging you deeper. Just quit and walk away.

avianos

catstarsto wrote: »

Your crocodile tears over it arent convincing.

Yes, your own crocodile Tears are more convincing

catstarsto wrote: »

you posting a different link under different dialogue was deceptive though, but not very bright of you once again...after condemning for linking an image that broke the rules you went and did the same thing...wow XD

Except I linked to a news archieved article to show the event and show proof
there is a difference between linking articles of news and posting images with mean spirited meme quote on said events
Nice try trying to turn the tables against me in order to come out as the Victim once again

catstarsto wrote: »

You have nothing to prove to any of us, take it easy friend. Despite your paranoia a few of you have about me, Im not your enemy! In fact im easy to get along with when given the chance.

From my forum experience with you, I Doubt it
you don't have any self awareness do you?​​

themightyzenith

catstarsto said:

...and someone had the nerve to flag my "stay out of the fire meme"...

Anyone can flag any post for any reason, whether it's justified or not.

It's the moderators and/or devs who actually decide whether to remove something or not based on its content. If you have a problem with any moderation taken against you then take it up with them.

Then this thread can continue with the topic.....

spinnytop said:

Do you think an AI can process the feeling of gratitude?

( I'm asking for theme reasons )

In a comic-book world like CO? Absolutely!

spinnytop said:

Sub-question: How would an AI express weeping?

Like this?

legendarylycan

well, i can see this is quickly turning into yet another thread the mods/kaizerin need to extinguish the flames on because of the Usual Suspects

so here's a novel idea - before it reaches that point, how about you all shut up, edit your posts and get back on topic?​​

catstarsto

ealford1985 said:

Catstarsto, this is one of those times you should have just said, "my apologies" regarding posting something very offensive and said nothing more.



You're inability to just...hush, is digging you deeper. Just quit and walk away.

I already explained it was an error, and yes I am sorry for it being offensive, if i had known it wasnt a stunt I wouldnt of used it. But I do grow tired of the double standard of certain people playing a "possum victim" to over react to something that i may say as offensive, or even sold through coaching as offensive, but they can be as offensive as they please. But yeah, ill walk away again and give them their final word (backhand) on the subject again...thats all that seems to matter to people these days! (being the dominate voice)

catstarsto

themightyzenith said:

spinnytop said:

Sub-question: How would an AI express weeping?

Like this?

Wait, they gave him tear ducts? Who planned for him to get emotional? lol

themightyzenith

catstarsto said:

Wait, they gave him tear ducts? Who planned for him to get emotional? lol

Vision is a synthezoid. A Synthezoid is special type of android in the Marvel Universe, also known as a "synthetic humanoid" robot. They are empowered by synthesizing solar energy and are replicas of the human body, containing analogues to virtually all human organs, brain, blood, and tissue, composed of a synthetic organic-like substance, Horton Cells. This substance mimics all the functions of human tissue, but is several times as strong, durable and resilient.

catstarsto

themightyzenith said:

catstarsto said:

Wait, they gave him tear ducts? Who planned for him to get emotional? lol

Vision is a synthezoid. A Synthezoid is special type of android in the Marvel Universe, also known as a "synthetic humanoid" robot. They are empowered by synthesizing solar energy and are replicas of the human body, containing analogues to virtually all human organs, brain, blood, and tissue, composed of a synthetic organic-like substance, Horton Cells. This substance mimics all the functions of human tissue, but is several times as strong, durable and resilient.

ok, im starting to appreciate how sophisticated he is now.

spinnytop

themightyzenith said:

Vision is a synthezoid. A Synthezoid is special type of android in the Marvel Universe, also known as a "synthetic humanoid" robot. They are empowered by synthesizing solar energy and are replicas of the human body, containing analogues to virtually all human organs, brain, blood, and tissue, composed of a synthetic organic-like substance, Horton Cells. This substance mimics all the functions of human tissue, but is several times as strong, durable and resilient.

Hmm, while a very good argument could be made for this technically being an android ( and I'm sure people would love to argue about that for pages - not me ), it's not really the type of AI I meant, since with Vision we appear to be technically talking about a synthesized human brain. Again yes, pages of arguments could be had about "is an artificially produced human being an AI?" - but in the spirit of the original question this sort of being isn't a good example. Interesting stuff tho!

If the argument is "eventually computers will get so advanced you won't be able to tell the difference between them and a human brain" then the direction you could go on that is at which point in development the question could be answered. Would we have to get all the way to directly replicating the human brain, or would there be a point before that where the question could be answered? Would replicating the human brain even be necessary, could the path of development never even need to go there to answer the question?

Thanks for your response.

deadman20

An AI can read and assume if it is programmed to do so, and can be programmed to perform a specific response based on how their code judges something, but it is all limited to how the AI is programmed. That being said, there are several great strides in getting an AI to "learn" things and "evolve", such as with getting a program to evolve ways to physically move in a virtual environment. I wouldn't put it beyond the realm of possibilty that an AI can learn to feel, but as of this moment I do not think that an AI has done so without a pre-set goal in mind, which makes the point kinda moot. Feeling isn't exactly teachable, it's an experience that one does or does not go through.

The best I can really think of for this question is deciding whether or not a robot could feel pain. Say it has an arm that functions perfectly fine for a while. Then over time the arm begins to malfunction. The robot would have to see what is in its code to do about it, if there is even such a function within it. You can program the robot to diagnose problems and find exactly where the damage is. Certainly this means a robot can at least detect damage, but what we do not know is if the robot can "feel" it. Even after the damage is repaired, the robot then goes on to perform exactly as it should, without a single care about the trauma it had faced. A human losing an arm, and then being fitted with a prosthetic one, would remember that trauma. A robot would have to be programmed to do so, and even then, is it really feeling it or just printing out a given list of responses because of its programming?

Just because a response can be perfected to make it seem like an AI can feel doesn't mean they will "experience" it the same way any of us actually would. At this moment, I do not think an AI can do any more than it is programmed to toward a given goal. So, until an AI can truly think and act freely, with no hand-holding or pre-defined measure of judgement, I would really leave that question to the best of your own judgement on the matter.​​

spinnytop

deadman20 said:

I would really leave that question to the best of your own judgement on the matter.​​

Yeah but I made a thread about it cause I wanted other people's opinions. I already know my own.

catstarsto

In comics, reality and how things work are often left to the writers. So make up your own set of circumstances; nanobot technology expanded from the overuse and manipulation of gadgteers and their encounters with aliens and mad scientist's creations could have had a growing effect on their robots and androids, causing them to evolve like that satellite did in Star Trek the motion picture, and become like the Phalanx from xmen, assimilating not only technology and genes, but also creating for itself a means to feel in its own way. Possibly even glow or display a unique form of expressing different emotions exclusive to this new species of AI, even allowing them to find/inhabit/build their own new body for its programming to emerge from its digital cocoon.....hows that?

spinnytop

catstarsto said:

In comics, reality and how things work are often left to the writers. So make up your own set of circumstances

No thanks, the point of the thread is to get other people's opinions.

ealford1985

> @spinnytop said:
> Do you think an AI can process the feeling of gratitude?
>
> ( I'm asking for theme reasons )
>
> Sub-question: How would an AI express weeping?

Without getting into what science or what fiction tells us...


Yes. Regardless if they understand them or not. Sort of like the types who decide to kill humans to save them. They have these thoughts..these perceptions and they don't know how to make sense of them, so misguided logic. They will be forever be uploading data from around them to figure out what it all means.


Weeping in the physical sense, probably would demonstrate what they know weeping to appear like and it would seem very unbelievable...but I think the intent would be sincere.

Example: *boo hoo, boo hoo* this one is saddened*

spinnytop

Huh... misguided logic. I like the sound of that.

catstarsto

lol, reminds me of Mars Attacks...the aliens shooting up the neighborhood saying, "dont run, we come in peace"

spinnytop

catstarsto said:

lol, reminds me of Mars Attacks...the aliens shooting up the neighborhood saying, "dont run, we come in peace"

That wasn't misguided logic, that was dishonesty. How does that relate to the question regarding AIs?

catstarsto

spinnytop said:

That wasn't misguided logic, that was dishonesty.

It was a translation error that caused people to lower their guard, like if you programmed a robot to say hugs and BFF, while they are go Matrix sentinel on you. Or in I Robot, where it is trying to kill will smith while saying, "you are experiencing an accident!" Ok, that one was part deception too, but not by the robot, by the core computer malfunctioning while thinking it is doin the right thing.

spinnytop said:

How does that relate to the question regarding AIs?

"ok ok, Im leaving.." U_U

markhawkman

spinnytop said:

catstarsto said:

lol, reminds me of Mars Attacks...the aliens shooting up the neighborhood saying, "dont run, we come in peace"

That wasn't misguided logic, that was dishonesty. How does that relate to the question regarding AIs?

The translation thingy was basically an AI. It was a horribly flawed one, but an AI.