Who is the most evil?

catstarsto

Given our choices in the game of Mastermind, Maniac and the Savage . Who do you think is the worst of the bunch, each has their prime evils used to cause grief to their assigned heroes, and the many victims that dare to cross their path. But which would you say is the worst of the lot?

The Mastermind: generally when one thinks of a mastermind, they are the ones who have put together a devious plan to take over by destroying their enemys from in fighting and ruinng them before they can even throw a punch...politicians...sith, any who can smile at a crowd filled with charisma but be as dark as a chaos marine! Like Lex Luthor, when he was running for president, managed to take his biggest foes credibility and ability to stop him away, by making him seem the dangerous and unstable one. (the fake bomb) if you watched justice league cartoon. we all knew Lex was evil and had no intention of being a man of the people, this is why he was a good villain, he worked the crowd to demonize superman and they loved him despite his history and supermans and no longer trusted the boy scout. The weight of any moral balance will always fall on the hero, because no one accounts the villain s having such a burden of principles....but I guess Palpatine fits the bill the most as a mastermind icon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66zekjp3QKY



The Maniac: The soulless and most indigent of all the evils. These creatures will lower themselves to any level, go to any length to achieve their goals, and laugh in the face of the ones they are doing it too....no mercy, no remorse...the fear and struggle only fuel them more! I think you know who I speak of, the one villain in comic book history that became the icon of lethal humor and sadistic mind games! ...the Joker!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFUKeD3FJm8



The Savage: Mindless rage, pure hatred of ones target...no I dont mean the hulk, not even grond fits this. The brute savage that is only fueled by the destruction of its target, they get worked up in such a rage that they are unable to control themselves, worse then rioters, worse then angry bees....the most popular hate group given to the comic book history, "The Friends of Humanity" cant even compare to a pure savage. I can think of two that stand out the most, the raging orcs from both gaming and movies that even after their enemy is beaten they keep beating on them until their isnt much left, until their rage is quenched inside of them they will not stop...but also the chaos space marines, so fueled by demonic possession many of them become the creatures they serve...no longer resembling the humans they once where. "dont make that face, it will stay that way!" lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFx2j-ST2Io


...so caste your vote, which of the nemesis types is the most evil?

catstarsto

probably one of the most ruthless and dangerous villains ive seen so far in comics/tv shows has been Slade. Though Im not sure how one would categorize him. Maybe half Maniac half Mastermind? Its one of those bad guys you just love to hate...very well written!

Unknown

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catstarsto

gradii said:

Wheres the "They're all equally evil in their own way" option?​​

because there can be only one!

flyingfinn

You can find those 3 in every movie/game/book and there's the mastermind behind savage and maniac. And most of the times the mastermind is the maniac and vice versa. And in the end, the savage is revealed beneath of it all.

spinnytop

The Mastermind

The maniac is mentally ill, they may not even really know what they're doing and can't be help responsible for their actions. For this reason they don't qualify as evil, they qualify as sick.

The savage is basically an animal, working on instinct and gut feelings; they're generally not aware of the larger implications of their actions and really just think that they're doing what they're doing to survive. While their actions may be heinous, they're not anymore evil than a lion killing and eating a wilderbeest.

The mastermind on the other hand is not only completely aware of their actions, they are aware of the greater consequences. They understand that what they're doing hurts others, and that may in fact be part of their plan - whatever it takes to achieve their ends. Thus the mastermind is the only one of the three who actually qualifies as evil.

catstarsto

gradii said:

Wheres the "They're all equally evil in their own way" option?​​

flyingfinn said:

You can find those 3 in every movie/game/book and there's the mastermind behind savage and maniac. And most of the times the mastermind is the maniac and vice versa. And in the end, the savage is revealed beneath of it all.

spinnytop said:

The maniac is mentally ill, they may not even really know what they're doing and can't be help responsible for their actions. For this reason they don't qualify as evil, they qualify as sick.

The savage is basically an animal, working on instinct and gut feelings; they're generally not aware of the larger implications of their actions and really just think that they're doing what they're doing to survive. While their actions may be heinous, they're not anymore evil than a lion killing and eating a wilderbeest.

The mastermind on the other hand is not only completely aware of their actions, they are aware of the greater consequences. They understand that what they're doing hurts others, and that may in fact be part of their plan - whatever it takes to achieve their ends. Thus the mastermind is the only one of the three who actually qualifies as evil.

QUESTION:
There has been a lot of comic book heroes, do you think there has ever been one that could take on any challenge from any previous made super villain?? (all purpose hero)

Im not sure even superman could handle all of them, as much as he can do he still has his limits, and some of them could be fatal. Even the joker almost killed him once. Duke nukem can be outsmarted, batman can be out gunned, the xmen..punisher killed all of them in a what if comic. The avengers, the marvels version of the UN nearly destroyed them...so they can be limited and divided by their own people like the jedi where...and as much as i like to boast of my favored hero from my own books, CatStar, not even he could take on everything.

Anyone know of a hero that can contend with any threat? He/she can be from any game, comic, movie, etc.

decorumfriends

Zack Snyder: The Director

doctorevilface

Why, it's me of course!

legendarylycan

spinnytop wrote: »

The maniac is mentally ill, they may not even really know what they're doing and can't be help responsible for their actions. For this reason they don't qualify as evil, they qualify as sick.

The savage is basically an animal, working on instinct and gut feelings; they're generally not aware of the larger implications of their actions and really just think that they're doing what they're doing to survive. While their actions may be heinous, they're not anymore evil than a lion killing and eating a wilderbeest.

The mastermind on the other hand is not only completely aware of their actions, they are aware of the greater consequences. They understand that what they're doing hurts others, and that may in fact be part of their plan - whatever it takes to achieve their ends. Thus the mastermind is the only one of the three who actually qualifies as evil.

bingo; my exact thoughts

maniacs can be fixed because their 'evil' is the result of mental damage

savages at that level of intense rage are pretty much operating on pure instinct at that point, and may also be suffering mental damage of some sort (that kind of all-consuming emotion isn't generally possible with healthy minds, after all), which can also be fixed

masterminds on the other hand...there is nothing wrong with their minds, medically-speaking, so they know full well what they are doing is wrong - and they CHOOSE to do it anyway



as for a hero who can handle any villain ever conceived with no weaknesses...it's called a mary sue/gary stu​​

catstarsto

I guess foxbat and grond are off the hook, but Dr Destroyer is still public enemy number one.



i had to look up what a mary sue was...its why i didnt like the reboot for star trek, the characters where too predictably fake and win because the writer says so, despite their complete lack of...everything, including good actors to portray them.

catstarsto

catstarsto said:

I guess foxbat and grond are off the hook, but Dr Destroyer is still public enemy number one.



i had to look up what a mary sue was...its why i didnt like the reboot for star trek, the characters where too predictably fake and win because the writer says so, despite their complete lack of...everything, including good actors to portray them.

oh, and here are the results so far for both youtube communities i shared this with:

https://plus.google.com/105090897361073150193/posts/9anrjnKgUsi

https://plus.google.com/105090897361073150193/posts/16AjvC6GtFU

spinnytop

The Mastermind

Wolverine basically has plot armor as his mutant power, so he's the kind of hero who could eventually defeat any villain. He might lose the first fight, but then he'd be back for adamantium rage filled revenge, even if he got disintegrated, time-erased and magically cursed out of existence during the first fight.. cause that's his mutant power.

Deadpool is a self-aware mary sue, so he'd also be one if he just decided that what he wanted to do was be able to beat every villain... all at the same time.. while wielding a piece of cake and a Pinkie-Pie plushy as his weapons.


While Superman and Batman are huge mary sues, Superman would eventually encounter a villain who has kryptonite, and Batman would eventually encounter someone who doesn't give him time to prepare. That's the downside of having been written with weaknesses other than "angst" ( and batman even has that one too ).

decorumfriends

You kids today. A Mary Sue is an author insert. Without that, it's not a Mary Sue. It's more along the lines of a "Mr. Perfect" or something. By no stretch of the imagination are Superman nor Batman nor Wolverine "Mary Sues/Gary Stus".

nepht

Come now a most evil poll on the CO forums and I am not an option. Shameful.

catstarsto

nepht said:

Come now a most evil poll on the CO forums and I am not an option. Shameful.

Do you feel bad for being Nepht out? :P

nepht

catstarsto said:

nepht said:

Come now a most evil poll on the CO forums and I am not an option. Shameful.

Do you feel bad for being Nepht out? :P

Nah I'm just sending a bunch of mutant dogs with baseball bats round to your base.

aesica

decorumfriends wrote: »

You kids today. A Mary Sue is an author insert. Without that, it's not a Mary Sue. It's more along the lines of a "Mr. Perfect" or something. By no stretch of the imagination are Superman nor Batman nor Wolverine "Mary Sues/Gary Stus".

Some Mary Sues are author inserts/wish fulfillments, but not all. The core of what makes up a Mary Sue is a character who is poorly developed, too perfect, and lacking realism--often to the point of being relatively uninteresting.​​

catstarsto

nepht said:

catstarsto said:

nepht said:

Come now a most evil poll on the CO forums and I am not an option. Shameful.

Do you feel bad for being Nepht out? :P

Nah I'm just sending a bunch of mutant dogs with baseball bats round to your base.

decorumfriends

aesica said:

Some Mary Sues are author inserts/wish fulfillments, but not all. The core of what makes up a Mary Sue is a character who is poorly developed, too perfect, and lacking realism--often to the point of being relatively uninteresting.​​

That's what people have changed it to over the years, but that's not what it was when the term was coined out of fanfic (an author insert who was best pals out of nowhere with the famous protagonists, everyone loved them for unobvious reasons, always being the deux-ex-machina that saved the day...).

But "living language" makes that an uphill battle I'll never win.

jonsills

A proper Mary Sue also needs to be beloved by everyone at first sight (even the bad guys!), and have no real weaknesses or flaws aside from something stupid like being "too cute" or "adorably clumsy" (yet, in situations where clumsiness might be dangerous, it somehow doesn't crop up).

Superman doesn't qualify because his weaknesses include kryptonite and magic (both fairly common in the DC universe) and because he's not universally beloved (Luthor's various plots against him would fail a lot faster if there weren't other people worried about what this alien demigod might do). Batman is in fact outright feared, at least by that part of the populace that doesn't dismiss him as an urban legend. (In fairness, that's pretty much the effect he's going for, but still.)

spinnytop

The Mastermind

I change my vote, jonsills is the most evil.

aesica

decorumfriends wrote: »

But "living language" makes that an uphill battle I'll never win.

Exactly. I guess you could say that Mary Sue has literally been dumped on her head.

Words and phrases change over time in any living language whether we like it or not. Trying to fight these changes is about as beneficial as throwing up while wearing a spacesuit.​​

spinnytop

The Mastermind

Or maybe people need to get in the habit of making new words when they want to refer to new things, rather than repurposing words that already have perfectly functional definitions. You know, like how some people want racism to mean something else now - that sort of thing is definitely something worth fighting against.

From now on when referring to a character that always wins and never dies no matter how ludicrous the circumstances, and when they do die it's only temporary... I'm just gonna call them a wolverine.

Unknown

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catstarsto

Who is this Ben777 and why is he making phantom appearances in my threads..? O.o
I smell a mystery that needs to be solved!

^detective cat is detectiving! : 3

catstarsto

aesica said:

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spinnytop said:

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...did another old term just become politically incorrect in the middle of this discussion??


...meh, who cares! let them cry about it...the sun still sets and rises everyday despite the fact...

Unknown

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legendarylycan

catstarsto wrote: »

Who is this Ben777 and why is he making phantom appearances in my threads..? O.o
I smell a mystery that needs to be solved!

^detective cat is detectiving! : 3

https://vanillaforums.com/en/features/moderation/

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catstarsto

shadowfang240 said:

snip
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Wow, it must be really really bad if they are removed that fast!
I guess ive made a real impression on people....and here I thought id become boring. ^^;



its why im tempted to vote for the savage for most evil...i remember the kingpin (a mastermind) once saying during the multiple spiderman episode, about spider carnage, "that is the most evil creature i have ever met! I dont trust him..." While kingpin has his own goals for the world, he wasnt going to see his world put into jeopardy over an unstable creature unleashed upon it...you cant trust chaotic creatures, they have their own driven motives...even their own life becomes forfeit to see them completed...a mastermind would not go that far. Even if they arent in their right minds...evil is still evil! An some can never come back after going too far...this is why i choose the chaos marines for savage, they are the ultimate form of no turning back form of villains because they are completely given over to evil. Even the joker stops and thinks for a minute, having enough control to think things through.

legendarylycan

it's got nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with language being a living, evolving thing

words have meanings, and those meanings change over time - like how 'literally' doesn't actually MEAN what it used to...though i still use the old definition whenever i use that word; i actually brought this up in the NoP Public Service channel over in STO where if i say someone is literally on fire, they damn well better stop, drop and roll​​

ealford1985

I always enjoyed "actually"

Like..that's actual really nice costume (compared to all your other shitty looks) that one is actually good.

You actually look very pretty today...I was expecting you to be grotesque

catstarsto

So heres an interesting question, Galactus more then once has admitted he has slain countless worlds filled with sentient beings, also admitting he has no desire to harm any creature or species...yet continues to do so. Given who and what he is, instead of just downgrading himself to a lesser state of being, to preserve the life he claims to cherish so he can retain his power...he continues to seek life to devour. Would you say he is willfully evil?

Although I dont think he falls under any of these three categories.

spinnytop

The Mastermind

catstarsto said:

nothing to see here, get a grip. lol

Stay on topic or stay out...

Galacticus knows what he's doing, he knows it hurts and destroys billions of lives, he keeps doing it because it benefits him. He doesn't qualify as "an animal just doing what it needs to to survive" because he doesn't have to do it - he wants to remain powerful, he wants to maintain his current existence, his excuse falls flat and his claims of not wanting to hurt anything are the delusions of his ego. Galacticus is evil.

catstarsto

spinnytop said:

Galacticus knows what he's doing, he knows it hurts and destroys billions of lives, he keeps doing it because it benefits him. He doesn't qualify as "an animal just doing what it needs to to survive" because he doesn't have to do it - he wants to remain powerful, he wants to maintain his current existence, his excuse falls flat and his claims of not wanting to hurt anything are the delusions of his ego. Galacticus is evil.

But here comes that tricky part of how to stop something that powerful, he was on the comity to strip Adam Warlock of the infinity gauntlet, there by illiminating the only real thing he had to fear.

beezeeze

Galactus easts planets to keep the ever expanding universe from collapsing in on itself, he devours billions to save billions of billions. He is the sole survivor of a pervious universe and the oldest living thing in the current marvel universe, he is a living natural disaster that very much serves a purpose besides just searching for his next meal. He is not good or evil, he is simply doing what me must to survive and keep the universe from collapsing. It certainly does suck for the people living on the planet he is about to consume, but he doesn't do it out of any kind of malice and if anything he believes what he is doing is for the greater good.

catstarsto

beezeeze said:

Galactus easts planets to keep the ever expanding universe from collapsing in on itself, he devours billions to save billions of billions. He is the sole survivor of a pervious universe and the oldest living thing in the current marvel universe, he is a living natural disaster that very much serves a purpose besides just searching for his next meal. He is not good or evil, he is simply doing what me must to survive and keep the universe from collapsing. It certainly does suck for the people living on the planet he is about to consume, but he doesn't do it out of any kind of malice and if anything he believes what he is doing is for the greater good.

Now I havent heard that before. Very interesting. hes a giant Langolier! :O