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The State of PvP
oobtree
Posts: 1,068 Arc User
Is anything planned to make Hero Games more incentive in the future for CO? Does the queue "kicking bug" still exist?
Why was Trauma removed from Ebon Ruin, and why nerf Enrage by removing the buff duration synergy with Constitution? Most Freeform PvP builds have always stacked heal powers, so nixing Trauma from ER really hurts most any viable counter to endless health gain. The nerf to Enrage pretty much killed Unleashed Rage and combined with the nerf to Straffing Run, ruined the popular spike build that had an alternate counter to do the same.
The reason I led with asking if HG's will see any fixes/incentives should be obvious. There's not much else about CO that I enjoyed all these years more than Hero Games. Things don't seem to be getting any better - ever - just worse with every patch. That's just one paying customer's thoughts.
Why was Trauma removed from Ebon Ruin, and why nerf Enrage by removing the buff duration synergy with Constitution? Most Freeform PvP builds have always stacked heal powers, so nixing Trauma from ER really hurts most any viable counter to endless health gain. The nerf to Enrage pretty much killed Unleashed Rage and combined with the nerf to Straffing Run, ruined the popular spike build that had an alternate counter to do the same.
The reason I led with asking if HG's will see any fixes/incentives should be obvious. There's not much else about CO that I enjoyed all these years more than Hero Games. Things don't seem to be getting any better - ever - just worse with every patch. That's just one paying customer's thoughts.
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That being said, Hero Games PvP would be great if really revived.
That would be done with more PvP/Acclaim rewards, and possibly a minor event.
Also, I really, really think that level 40 should be its own level range in Hero Games, with level 35-39 a separate range. There is a huge world of difference between level 39 and 40.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
That is as far as it will get for PvP in CO, simply because devs dont know how profitable PvP games are and how to make money on PvP-loving crowds, so in the end, they will keep only releasing PvE content untill they will wake up and actually hire a PvP dev, or at least start asking for advices on how to make their PvP fun from actually real and experienced PvP players. Both possibilities have chances of less than 1% so my advice is to simply find some other game where PvP is actually well-developed and cared of.
Kaizerin, I'm gold again for at least this month. I can help you with input or new ideas for free a few weeknights each week I am still gold. Please, communicate with me in-game. Let's not go there. If changes are to ever come to Hero Games, we have to push any of this old drama aside and start over.
Last I heard that bug was fixed. Ranged no longer gets access to Trauma, but there are now more melee abilities with it. This was done to ease the gap between melee and ranged builds. Specifically Ebon Ruin was one of those "gotta have it or don't bother" powers, and there is a concerted effort to remove that meta as much as possible so as to allow greater diversity and more meaningful choices. Yeah yeah "some builds will always be better than others, some choices will always be better than others!" all that old stuff - they're trying to mitigate that as much as possible.
Enrage wasn't really nerfed all that much, and UR wasn't nerfed at all ( in fact, Might now has a sonic damage duff! ). Strafing Run, well let's be honest was just too strong, hence nerfed.
PS - technically there are more powers with Trauma in the game now than when you used to pvp, so if anything that particular counter is more prevalent than ever!
Uh huh, I'm a paying customer too and I agree with the general direction to break the rather stiff pvp build choice meta. I know that that whole thing was very threatening to a lot of the long time pvp vets... you can tell cause more and more of them ran screaming for the hills as their familiar, very small pool of tricks was taken away. However, it was necessary for exactly what you're asking for - to make PvP in this game active and popular again. Before they put shiny rewards to lure people in with, they're doing a bit of house cleaning to deal with some problems - problems that affected both pve and pvp mind you.
And before you go there, since it's a popular thing to do - plenty of my stuff has been nerfed, some of it quite hard in fact! I recognized the necessity and am happy it was done.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
That bug has been fixed last I heard.
General answer: To break the "gotta have that" meta. One of the major issues with PvP was a very narrow meta that never really worked very well with the game's broader design philosophy. That's being fixed. A lot of pvp vets were scared off when their very small bag of tricks started getting emptied out, but it had to be done - in the long term we'll see who comes back for an actual love of the potential this game's pvp has, and who stays away because the only thing they ever liked here was being op and winning because of it.
Yeah yeah "Some builds will always be better than others, some choices will always be better than others, that's why nothing should ever change!". That old line. They're still trying to bust up that meta as best they can, and from what I've seen they've made some good progress. I am also a paying customer, and I think things have been getting better and better with every patch. I might even get into pvp again at some point as it has a greater tendency of supporting that character building thing I enjoy so much.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
With my experience, it's been pretty detrimental and anxiety ensues, it isn't welcoming to the average, theme based builds when the nature of competition is who can exploit best and execute it, and if you can't keep up you get destroyed, obviously you're not going to enjoy it, unless you're a macho-sadist then continue to punish yourself...
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
I was just asking the "why" questions, not intending to sound complainy -- just looking for the logic behind things.
Since I've been playing off and on this past week, I've noticed the broad perspective of these changes in action and I'm not fuming over it or anything silly. I like that doors to other combo's have been unlocked, because as a "PvP guy" in CO, creating freeform builds and combos is the funnest thing about the game imo. Maximization will still be what makes the best pvp builds unbalanced, though. That was really always the problem; not the niche group of powers that were needed to counter those maximizations.
I originally posted this thread over on the PTS discussion area and it got moved to here. I posted it there in hopes Kaizerin would see it. I'm guessing Smackwell ninja-vanished it this dungeon.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The powers for the most part perform nearly identically in PvP as they do in PvE. I can't really expect the development team to tune the powers for the current PvE content and somehow have them align just right when they let us turn those very same powers loose on each other. Until PvE mobs respond to our powers and fight back the same way other players do, I don't think we'll be first class citizens when it comes to being catered to.
The room to cherry pick in this game is almost unmatched by any other game I can recall which really hurts PvP diversity but is pretty much crucial to theme-building in other areas of the game. A quick look at successful PvP games will show that there are severe restrictions on how one can build and this is good for gameplay but bad for theme; the irony is that the freeform mechanism that allows freedom in PvE is the same mechanism that removes freedom in PvP. PvE and PvP are not two sides of the same coin but in balance changes they are treated like conjoined-twins. Although this far along in the game I don't think they can really segregate how the powers behave without significant backlash from the community and the knee-jerk reaction that stems from memories of what CoH devs did late in its PvP days.
I got into PvP mostly by accident back in the day because soaking up tons of damage in the way I was doing it was coincidentally as desirable in PvP as it was in PvE. The writing was always on the wall for me, but it was really driven home after a few years of PvPing at a level where pretty much no one fresh out of PvE could ever scratch me. Diversity was provided by several roles in PvP needing to be filled but achieving those roles was relatively clear-cut. A bit of simple tweaking, testing, and understanding of high-school mathematics was all that was necessary to figure out the path to filling those roles. So is it really such a surprise that there were allegations of widespread build-copying when so much of the min-maxing done, even if completely independently without outside help, inevitably lead to similar builds and results? If I don't get to the build first my neighbor inevitably will.
Look I guess I'm preaching to the choir at this point but I'll just say it anyways. Without some additional, probably unpopular, limits in place any attempts at diversifying the playing field with changes to powers only, and not mechanics, will simply just shift the cross-hairs for onto the next flavor of the game build for people to complain about/copy/take credit for originating. Something something something die the hero something something something live long enough to become the villain...
There was a time that this was the PvP game for me because it coincidentally catered to my expectations. I really think that PvP is pretty much going to just be coincidentally fun for you if it is at all; I don't think there's much the devs can do with the resources they have to make it fun for you now if it isn't already. For me it isn't anymore and I'm not under any delusions that they should cater to my expectations just because they coincidentally did in the past.
If I was instantly smashed in my first PvP experience I wouldn't have hung with the crowd for as long as I did. I'm glad things happened the way they did because my fondest memories were from PvP, not of the PvP in and of itself, but from the people I met on my journey. However the biggest irony that surprises me to this day is that despite all the depressing posts I read each time I log on I can confirm that indeed no one, truly, ever, EVER, leaves CoPvP.
It's like your first love. You'll remember it the way it was even if it isn't that way today. Its a bittersweet thing. You'll always want to continue being friends with CoPvP even if it hurts you. And believe me, it inevitably hurts more and more the harder to try to make the memories come rushing back. So you check the forums to see if its gotten uglier or fatter but to your dismay it seems to be doing just fine without you in its life. Not as great as it could be if it were still with you, you think, but certainly fine. This makes you feel forgotten and eventually you'll find yourself leaving a note like this at its doorstep not caring if it'll read it or not but somehow hoping that doing so will make it maybe, just maybe, notice how much your time together meant to you. It's as if you think that expressing how irreplaceable it is will somehow be all that's needed to make it change its mind about you. Deep down inside you know that even if it does change its mind, you know that things won't be better anyways, but you leave the note anyways its the hope that you might be wrong. Maybe you even leave a flower with that note, aware of the cliche, and undeniably possessed by the sweetness of the gesture.
A little bird a week later lets you know in passing that the flower is dead and the note is still unread. The wind whispers in your ears, ever so softly, "Whoooooosh...can I have your looooooot?...whoooosh"
Wait a second. I'm not sure what I'm talking about anymore.
Thanks for all the PeeVeePees and I'll see you whenever I see you!
Love,
Smash
Thanks for the post, a pleasant read (which is rare around here.)
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
my deviantart: http://zemmax89.deviantart.com/
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@zemmax89 in game, former @Pallih
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Just when you thought it couldn't get worse.
KitKat : 3
...but im not sure how to fix the mood of the community lately, most seem to have ether a stick up their rear or have gone stale....you guys need to cheer up and have fun!
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Thats why i made an AT toon, to test something....if anyones interested in helping. Make an Archtype channel and have players team up for alerts and pvp sessions using At's to get a feel for how to balance a FF build and find what works for them and then work on their individual skills using said powers. Even new players, this would go a long way to help our community improve and grow our number of elites in the future.
If new players or those who cant afford a decent set and need help with gear ill help buy you a leveling set from the Q store, if I can afford it. i will even help you earn it too through daily's if you run on your own steam. Im usually on as Medtech or Apothecary in game. My teaming healer and one im currently leveling.
But KitKat is my gadgeteer AT toon:
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
For your alts and silver players who want to teamup for pvp's, hero games and alerts.
RULES: Only fighting allowed is with your toons!
No RP this is for gaming info and coordinating groups for gatherings.
No spamming/scrolling
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
I have freeform toons to tussle with you, but if you let your sub run out I have an AT too now. If you or anyone else is serious about PvP/Hero Games...quit infighting and give us a hand to revive them!! It starts with us.
Petty posturing and narcissism only creates tension, and makes people think your unapproachable (a snob)...not one of us is always right, not all of us is always wrong. Im offering all of you, the opportunity to populate the games again, but in order to get more people to sub and gain freeform we have to teach them how to pvp and get them to enjoy it enough to become a regular...and who knows we may have more legitimate competition and less braggarts boasting about farming people, and running them off before they confidence and training on how to build, gearup and execute a pvp toon.
Improvise....adapt...overcome! Spamming moves also leaves a trail/pattern...a weakness. Learn to exploit their exploit and you defeat their build. Outsmart who you cant overpower, no one is invincible, i only win about 1 in 5 pvps, but i never give up because i enjoy the challenge. So dont sweat being stomped, study your opponent and defeat his strategy, many rely on stacks, watch for his tells like you would a boss, and learn to block it and make him waste his stack...then unleash on him, but never be consistent or rely on certain powers or you run the risk of falling into my traps >: 3
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
this project is for ATs only so they arent baited into being farmed until they have some time to build up their toons and experience. It was making me angry to hear of people being exploited and running off other players at the expense of smug farmers taking advantage of new and under-geared players. The same group would go and mob the same guy/guys with cosmic level gear.
I often side with the underdog. The goal of this is to bring back hero games as legitimate fun feature for everyone, by training people using ATs until they are ready to begin building a FF. In the mean time they would be on equal footing with other ATs to learn their strengths and weaknesses without being wiped by a bunch of laughing elites out for the kills instead of saying, "hey, heres what you did wrong...heres a better way to approach this." Once they are they can join the other channel...actually ready to be on equal footing with that group. Just like both chat channels in STO (training one/regular on)
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.