Today I Learned: Heroes Edition

dialamx

I learned something new in the hero world that I never knew before. Decided to start a thread where people can share things they've learned about heroes from comics, movies, cartoons, and games.

I learned that DC had a Spider-Man hero almost 30 years before Stan Lee created Spider-Man for Marvel. DC had a man named John Law, who went out during the 1930's as a hero named Tarantula. However, his alias was Spider Man. He had no powers, he was just a good fighter and acrobat. He had suction shoes to walk on walls and ceilings, and had a "Web Gun". The gun contained a liquid nylon that, when fired, hardened into a nylon line which he would use to swing and tie up villains with. He fought crime in Bludhaven, and lived in the same apartment building as Dick Grayson/Nightwing when he was an old man.

spinnytop

The idea that the ninja turtles are heavy enough to break various structures with their weight alone but can still use suction cups to climb a building is ludicrous.

decorumfriends

dialamx said:

I learned something new in the hero world that I never knew before. Decided to start a thread where people can share things they've learned about heroes from comics, movies, cartoons, and games.

I learned that DC had a Spider-Man hero almost 30 years before Stan Lee created Spider-Man for Marvel. DC had a man named John Law, who went out during the 1930's as a hero named Tarantula. However, his alias was Spider Man. He had no powers, he was just a good fighter and acrobat. He had suction shoes to walk on walls and ceilings, and had a "Web Gun". The gun contained a liquid nylon that, when fired, hardened into a nylon line which he would use to swing and tie up villains with. He fought crime in Bludhaven, and lived in the same apartment building as Dick Grayson/Nightwing when he was an old man.

Jerry Ordway's revamp of his costume in the '80s was far superior to the ugly purple and yellow "long johns" he shared with Kirby's Sandman.

dialamx

decorumfriends said:

Jerry Ordway's revamp of his costume in the '80s was far superior to the ugly purple and yellow "long johns" he shared with Kirby's Sandman.

It reminds me of the costume Flash Thompson wore in the What If... story where he was bitten instead of Peter.

guyhumual

Most hero concepts out there were invented by DC first. DC was a massive comic company, It was around for a long time, and it bought up a number of smaller companies and took their rosters. Occasionally DC pilfers from Marvel, but more often then not a lot of the concepts come from DC. What makes a comic is what they do with these concepts. Spider-man was clearly superior to Tarantula, he wasn't an original concept, but concepts don't make heroes memorable. Spider-Man was a wisecracker, not always on the right side of the law, and he was an angsty teen (something Marvel cracked the mold on) and that was something that was far more interesting then the spider concept.

markhawkman

Yeah, writing a character is a lot more than writing a concept.

servantrules

Way even before the DC version, in the Pulp era there was... THE SPIDER, Master of Men!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM3WdfvJ0sc

decorumfriends

guyhumual said:

Most hero concepts out there were invented by DC first. DC was a massive comic company, It was around for a long time, and it bought up a number of smaller companies and took their rosters.

You are, of course, aware that Marvel is just as old as DC (near as makes no difference at this point).

guyhumual said:

Occasionally DC pilfers from Marvel, but more often then not a lot of the concepts come from DC.

DC spent the early '80s hiring away Marvel personnel in an attempt to make their whole line over into a Marvel style. That's how we got New Teen Titans (X-Men style), Arak (Conan) and All-Star Squadron (Invaders). But, as you note later, it's about execution, not concept. Concepts are a dime a dozen (just look around you here ).

guyhumual said:

What makes a comic is what they do with these concepts. Spider-man was clearly superior to Tarantula, he wasn't an original concept, but concepts don't make heroes memorable. Spider-Man was a wisecracker, not always on the right side of the law, and he was an angsty teen (something Marvel cracked the mold on) and that was something that was far more interesting then the spider concept.

Even Kirby's Spider-Man was lame (and rejected). Nothing more than ripping off The Fly that he and Joe Simon had already created. Peter Parker was what made Spider-Man, not the other way around (so I'm agreeing, here, just to be clear).

decorumfriends

markhawkman said:

Yeah, writing a character is a lot more than writing a concept.

We had this guy show up at comicbookresources one time, wanting to know who he had to get in touch with to sell them all his amazing hero concepts. We all had to dishearten him that that wasn't an actual job, it was something the writers came up with when making the character, and it was usually pretty secondary to personality anyway. Anyone could do (and most of us had, at one point or another) what he was doing. Poor schmuck, he was so enthusiastic about it.

nepht

Stan Lee's version of Shazam though. Its not good in any way what so ever, Its basically small snobby type woman that can turn into Red Hulk >_>"

dialamx

nepht said:

Stan Lee's version of Shazam though. Its not good in any way what so ever, Its basically small snobby type woman that can turn into Red Hulk >_>"

This confuses me. Is it politically correct because it's supporting gender fluidity, or is it sexist because the small woman has to turn into a large, buff man to be "super"

guyhumual

decorumfriends said:

You are, of course, aware that Marvel is just as old as DC (near as makes no difference at this point).

While technically Timely Publications, which would eventually become Atlas, which would become Marvel, was founded five years after DC, which is pretty close, they weren't major players like DC. They had Captain America, the human torch (not Johnny Storm), and Sub-Mariner, but by this time the comic companies that would evolve into DC had Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. It wasn't even close. DC had more money and absolutely dominated the super hero industry for two decades. Not that Atlas was really competing with them, they did humor, drama, crime, war, western comic, while DC was expanding their hero rosters. Marvel became a threat in the 1960s with Spider-man, Hulk, and the Fantastic Four and then they got back into the hero game in a big way. A lot of that success can be attributed to three men, Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and Steve Ditko.

jonsills

Captain Marvel. Interesting name - so much so that it keeps getting used.

Fawcett created the Big Red Cheese, a boy who transforms into a Superman ripoff by uttering a magic word.

Marvel had an alien, Mar-Vell, a captain in the Kree forces, who defected to Earth. (Then, later, a woman who could manipulate photons in almost any frequency, and then the former associate of the original Captain who went through more problems than a soap-opera heroine before settling on being Capt. Marvel.)

And in the mid-'60s, M. F. Enterprises brought us their own Captain Marvel, an alien android with powers similar to Superman's, but who could also make his body parts fly off and act independently by shouting, "SPLIT!" For extra added borderline-copyright-violation goodness, many of his enemies were thinly-disguised Captain Ersatzes of existing characters (a guy in a dark bat costume named "The Bat-Man", for instance - note the hyphen to stay out of trouble!​​

aesica

nepht wrote: »

Stan Lee's version of Shazam though. Its not good in any way what so ever, Its basically small snobby type woman that can turn into Red Hulk >_>"

Are you sure about that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Imagine...#Captain_Marvel

The description leads me to believe that red hulk is the main character and "small snobby type woman" is just his partner.​​

markhawkman

I learned how to order a double-cheeseburger in Spanish today.

It's a skill every hero needs!

decorumfriends

nepht said:

Stan Lee's version of Shazam though. Its not good in any way what so ever, Its basically small snobby type woman that can turn into Red Hulk >_>"

Nothing about Just Imagine was good in any way whatsoever. Stan in his dotage proving just how much he needed a Jack or Steve to "make the magic happen". Dan Jurgens ran a DC event just like it ("Hey, let's just make different heroes out of the same names!") called Tangent, only that was actually enjoyable.

decorumfriends

guyhumual said:

decorumfriends said:

You are, of course, aware that Marvel is just as old as DC (near as makes no difference at this point).

While technically Timely Publications, which would eventually become Atlas, which would become Marvel, was founded five years after DC, which is pretty close, they weren't major players like DC. They had Captain America, the human torch (not Johnny Storm), and Sub-Mariner, but by this time the comic companies that would evolve into DC had Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. It wasn't even close. DC had more money and absolutely dominated the super hero industry for two decades. Not that Atlas was really competing with them, they did humor, drama, crime, war, western comic, while DC was expanding their hero rosters. Marvel became a threat in the 1960s with Spider-man, Hulk, and the Fantastic Four and then they got back into the hero game in a big way. A lot of that success can be attributed to three men, Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and Steve Ditko.

Just making sure that was your PoV. Yeah, DC conglomerated what...three companies (National, Detective and All-American..I forget the details because of all the incestuous corporate juggling) to dominate the field. Of course, not long after the war, dominating the field didn't amount to much more than publishing Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, there being no field left to dominate. Things were more flexible back then. I'll bet if you'd told me in the '60s that soon pretty much ONLY super-heroes would be in mainstream comics, I'd have looked at you like you had two heads.

decorumfriends

jonsills said:

And in the mid-'60s, M. F. Enterprises brought us their own Captain Marvel, an alien android with powers similar to Superman's, but who could also make his body parts fly off and act independently by shouting, "SPLIT!"

And the inspiration for legendary Legion of Super-Heroes applicant Arm-Fall-Off-Boy (later version named Splitter)!

Please note, proper sound effect for pulling one's arm off? Plorp.

spinnytop

His weird little shoulder butthole is disgusting.

aesica

decorumfriends wrote: »

And the inspiration for legendary Legion of Super-Heroes applicant Arm-Fall-Off-Boy (later version named Splitter)!

Please note, proper sound effect for pulling one's arm off? Plorp.

​​

dialamx

aesica said:

*Snip*​​

You just couldn't resist, could you?

chaelk

I worked out that Kitty Pryde has a problem with Peter's.
Piotyr Rasputin- dated
Pete Wisdom - dated
Peter Quill from Guardians of the Galaxy- apparantly married to .​​

dialamx

chaelk said:

I worked out that Kitty Pryde has a problem with Peter's.

Piotyr Rasputin- dated

Pete Wisdom - dated

Peter Quill from Guardians of the Galaxy- apparantly married to .​​

Well, most Kitty's prefer Peters... wink wink, nudge nudge