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Travel Powers in Champions Online - Time for an update?

What I mean by this is that, currently we have access to various travel powers which come in a few basic modes:

- Super Speed
- Acrobatics
- Flight
- Super Jump
- Teleport
- Tunnelling

These all have interesting variants/skins but they also have varying effects on character performance when utilized in combat.

Some are much more useful than others in most scenarios whereas others are somewhat impractical in instanced missions or are straight up countered.

So I'd like to focus in on the following things and get people's opinions and just a general discussion on the topic:

- What do you think about the energy penalties that Travel Powers place on a character whilst active?
- What do you think about the significant decrease in travel speed whilst engaging in combat?
- Do you think the level requirement for gaining your secondary travel power as well as travel power ranks should be lowered?
- What would be your response to a system which introduces a specialism tree (with its own unique points/ranking to each travel power allowing you to tailor your characters travel powers in more ways than present? (i.e. In Combat Movement Speed increases, minor Defensive boosts, Energy Penalty reductions etc)
- How would you make [Insert Travel Power] more practical in instanced missions?
- What is your favorite travel power?
- Would you like to be able to customize more travel powers in the tailor or would you prefer more travel power skins?

Thanks in advance all.

Comments

  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    Energy penalties have always seemed negligible to me, to the point where I never turn off my travel power on purpose for energy.

    Combat travel speed, maybe Flight could be a little bit faster, but otherwise I think they're about okay. What I would like to see is my travel power speed going back to normal sooner after combat ends. It currently takes too long I think.

    Level requirement for rank 3 of travel powers should come much sooner, I think.

    Super Jump can be made to be a sort of lunge? Don't know how probable it would be, but a tap having more forward motion than upward would be great. Other than that I think they're alright.

    Super Jump is my favorite, since it's most thematic for my favorite heroes.
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  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    I've always had an issue with the animations with the runs.
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,340 Arc User
    edited January 2017

    - What do you think about the energy penalties that Travel Powers place on a character whilst active?

    The energy penalties are negligible for the most part... but quite honestly they should just be dropped altogether... there is no point in keeping them.

    - What do you think about the significant decrease in travel speed whilst engaging in combat?

    For ground based travels such as Super Speed or Acrobatics, the combat speed decrease is fine, however Flight on the other hand is sluggishly slow in combat. Part of this is due in part to the fact that ground based travel forms can use jumping to close distances quickly while in combat, whereas Flight is stuck at a snail's pace. I've actually found it far more practical on my toons that have flight to turn OFF my travel when I need to get somewhere quickly in combat. If I'm on a flight character and I get knocked or repealed into the air it's always significantly faster to just turn off my flight and walk the short distance back in range of my target than to try to fly back, and yet if I were using a ground based travel I'd STILL get back into the fight quicker than I can when using flight.

    - Do you think the level requirement for gaining your secondary travel power as well as travel power ranks should be lowered?

    Secondary travel should be unlocked at level 20 in my opinion... as for ranks, I don't see a problem with them, though maybe R3 could be dropped down to Lv30.

    - What would be your response to a system which introduces a specialism tree (with its own unique points/ranking to each travel power allowing you to tailor your characters travel powers in more ways than present? (i.e. In Combat Movement Speed increases, minor Defensive boosts, Energy Penalty reductions etc)

    I would say YES PLEASE!... Especially if they would bring with them some thematic combat buffs as options as well... There are many superhero concepts that are largely based on a travel power. For example, a speedster... typically speedsters only have the power of super speed and their combat abilities are largely based on their speed rather than their might.

    - How would you make [Insert Travel Power] more practical in instanced missions?

    With most travel powers this isn't an issue... however if you use Swinging, Super Jump, Gliding... then you're usually stuck without a travel power when indoors... like Biff suggests, I too would give these powers a sort of lunge ability when tapped. And since I mentioned Gliding, I would change this power to function more like Swinging, hold Jump while airborne to glide.

    - Would you like to be able to customize more travel powers in the tailor or would you prefer more travel power skins?

    I would like to see all travel powers reduced down to their basic forms with all skins and customizations for them made available in the tailor, and made available for ALL travel powers.


    Other changes I'd like to see made to travel powers...

    Super Jump, Gliding, and Swinging - a small run speed boost, not quite as high as acrobatics, but perhaps high enough that R3 would have around the same run speed as acrobatics R1.

    Tunneling - faster activation/deactivation and allow activation/deactivation while moving.
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  • hyperspherehypersphere Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    I would very much like to see Athletics/Acrobatics, Super Speed, and Super Jump employ a sticky mechanic that allows you to easily scale walls with them, as in City of Heroes. It was far easier to get around there vertically without flight, and you didn't get left behind when moving with a team up buildings and such.

    I've tried Speed a few times and just hated having to run up fire escapes (falling off repeatedly), and the acrobatic powers have wonky jump heights that make it difficult to use them indoors -- I'd like to see the jump height more accurately coupled to the keypress duration.

    My experience has been that almost everything is less convenient and takes longer using those powers, unless I'm on an open stretch of terrain. I'm sure a lot of it is my lack of familiarity with them, as I see many people using them with little trouble. But for me, it's flight or teleport all the way. Anything else just feels like I'm gimping myself.

    And Ice Glide... lol no. That and a couple of others should go completely back to the drawing board.
  • servantrulesservantrules Posts: 306 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    I'd just like all Rank 3 Travel Powers to be faster than vehicles to make the point investment worth it. And give Flight some form of advantage option other than ranking it (other than cosmetic ones like Fanfare).
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,598 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    Hi Raven, here's my two cents.....


    - What do you think about the energy penalties that Travel Powers place on a character whilst active?


    I think they should just be scrapped personally.


    - What do you think about the significant decrease in travel speed whilst engaging in combat?

    I'm fine with all of them except for Flight. Floating feather speed is really annoying and seems unbalanced compared to the others.


    - Do you think the level requirement for gaining your secondary travel power as well as travel power ranks should be lowered?

    Yes I do. Lvl 20/25 perhaps.


    - What would be your response to a system which introduces a specialism tree (with its own unique points/ranking to each travel power allowing you to tailor your characters travel powers in more ways than present? (i.e. In Combat Movement Speed increases, minor Defensive boosts, Energy Penalty reductions etc)

    I don't really see much of a need for such a system.


    - How would you make [Insert Travel Power] more practical in instanced missions?

    I think @raighn suggested a brilliant idea for Cape Glide when they said " I would change this power to function more like Swinging, hold Jump while airborne to glide.". I also think that Biff's comment about Superjump has got merit. @hypersphere also mentioned that "I'd like to see the jump height more accurately coupled to the keypress duration." and I think it's very true.


    - What is your favorite travel power?

    Tricky one. I'm torn between Swinging and Flight. I know that a lot of folks find Swinging annoying but I just love the actual in-swing animation and it's a very thematic power. And Flight, well who doesn't want to be able to fly? It goes hand-in-hand with the genre...... as long as it fits the character ofc.


    - Would you like to be able to customize more travel powers in the tailor or would you prefer more travel power skins?


    I can imagine a customisable swinging where we can choose what the swing chord emanates from...with a choice of a few different swing-line lanchers in the tailor. The default one we have is yuck.

    I'd also love some more skins for the powers. Most notably I'd really, really like to see a version of Cape Glide (call it just "Glide") that doesn't shove a default cape on you if you are not using one. There are many costume parts that could benefit from this........

    Whooooooosh!

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  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 4,632 Arc User
    2nd travel at lvl 25 and R3 for all travel powers at 30.

    My peeve is how all travels powers get turned off when fighting cosmics. We should be all over the place when fighting them. Not clustered together on the ground in the only currently safe/practical position on the map.
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  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,340 Arc User
    edited January 2017


    - What do you think about the significant decrease in travel speed whilst engaging in combat?

    I'm fine with all of them except for Flight. Floating feather speed is really annoying and seems unbalanced compared to the others.
    Tell me about it... I swear Flight is slower in combat than not using a travel power at all... I mean... I know it's not... but it just feels like it is... and from a practical standpoint it actually is... You can cover more distance faster by jumping with no travel power than you can by trying to fly in combat...
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  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    What do you think about the energy penalties that Travel Powers place on a character whilst active?

    Dumb.

    What do you think about the significant decrease in travel speed whilst engaging in combat?

    Flight: OMG WHY IS IT SO SLOW?!?!?! *sob* And then you enter combat. *mental breakdown*
    Other powers: Don't really notice.

    Do you think the level requirement for gaining your secondary travel power as well as travel power ranks should be lowered?

    Ranks: Remove them all and just have all travel powers always be r3 speed. More speed = more fun.
    Second Power: I use acro 90% of the time, so don't really care about the second one.

    What would be your response to a system which introduces a specialism tree (with its own unique points/ranking to each travel power allowing you to tailor your characters travel powers in more ways than present?

    Don't care one way or the other.

    How would you make [Insert Travel Power] more practical in instanced missions?

    *shrug*

    What is your favorite travel power?

    Rainbow Athletics.

    Would you like to be able to customize more travel powers in the tailor or would you prefer more travel power skins?

    If you mean, would I like the tailor to hold the basic travel powers that I can apply fun and exciting skins to: yes. Dots on my Jet Boots so I don't have to use icky, slow basic flight: yes. Being able to color the travel powers I paid for without additional payment requirements: yes. I only have to purchase an aura once to be able to color it.​​
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  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    *Bring down the level requirments: level 20 for second travel power, and allow R3 at level 30

    *Flight base speed needs to be a bit higher--increase to that used for jet boots/jet pack, and then raise the speed of those two powers by the same amount (to keep them faster overall)

    *tunneling can be thematic and useful for stealth in some missions; on the other hand, its activation is so slow, and it is otherwise very limited; add an automatic +resist while using it, since you can't fight anyway--how about +50%/+75%/+100%

    *ice slide is cool but impractical; it should work more like hoverboard, which uses similar, but better, mechanics

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  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    spec trees for travel powers-- hmm I estimate about 1 hr for someone to find a rort​​
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,908 Arc User

    I'd just like all Rank 3 Travel Powers to be faster than vehicles to make the point investment worth it. And give Flight some form of advantage option other than ranking it (other than cosmetic ones like Fanfare).

    maybe not fully tricked out vehicles, but basic definitely.
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  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,254 Arc User
    I like the idea of the Wallwalker travel power, although that would need to be combined with some kind of short leap ability (to go from building to building).

    Tunnelling should make up for its lack of utility (you can't actually go under things) with an increase in speed and a defence increase/ aggro wipe if used in combat (with re-use limits, like Teleport). Ditto Bat Flight - I've seen Bela Lugosi use that effectively a few times.

    Ice Slide needs the ability to hover, Rainbow Flight needs turning down a bit (it's too noisy, too bright, too sparkly even for Rainbow Dash). Generally speaking I'd like to see the TP system given a once over to make each of the similar powers a little more distinctive in their properties and perhaps made more desirable for more than aesthetics - things like Distortion Acrobatics granting a small perception debuff, and the Energy Flight types giving a small DR per rank buff against damage of the same type.

    Ultimately - moon on a stick time - I'd quite like to be able to sacrifice my second unique TP for a synergised travel related attack (or defence). That's a big part of the superhero canon which isn't really represented here. A dive/lunge for Flight, which would work in any location, Illumination style, or a character with Superjump able to turn that into a powered leap to knock their enemies around, or Nightcrawler style Bam! teleport-to-and-strike...

  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 978 Arc User
    All the current travel restrictions just seem abusive to players. Why is flight speed so sluggish in combat? Why do we have to wait until 35 to get a 2nd movement power? Why do we have to wait so long to be able to add R3 to our movements? Why does Tunneling take forever to activate? What is the benefit to Glide that counterbalances its restriction to using powers? Why are Superleap, Swinging and others impossible to use indoors?

    There is no reasonable balance reason for any of those examples or most of the other restrictions on travel powers. This is especially true now that vehicles are so commonplace. Most people use a vehicle to get long distances, and movement powers are more for flavor. There's no reason to make it so hard to use some of them.
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  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 2,701 Cryptic Developer
    Wall climbing was something considered at the start of the game, however was not pursued due to technical limitations which are still present this day.​​
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,340 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    kaizerin said:

    Wall climbing was something considered at the start of the game, however was not pursued due to technical limitations which are still present this day.​​

    I distinctly recall one of the original devs stating that it wasn't actually a technical limitation, but rather a poor design choice on their end when they were building the map. That they would have to completely rebuild the entire millineum city map and a few others from the ground up to allow for climbing... regardless he did say it would be far more work than its worth at this point, and that if they had more time when originally developing the game they would have made the changes needed. But now, its too late and making the change now could have a myriad of unforseen problems come with it.
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  • guyhumualguyhumual Posts: 2,303 Arc User
    So here are my thoughts on travel powers:
    1) they should be, at max ranks, as fast as vehicles
    2) If you can't use powers while your travel powers is active there should be a benefit other then traveling as compensation. cape Glide for example is much faster then normal flight. Tunneling makes you invisible to enemies.
    3) Consider allowing some hybrid powers, I once ran into a glitch that allowed me to use acrobatics with swinging power. It was amazing.
    4) I'd like to have some transformation skins of travel powers. We have a bat swarm, but for acrobatics or super speed I'd like to be able to turn into an animal like a wolf. Allow my character to ride a motorcycle.

    I'd like the threshold for new travel powers to be lowered and getting rank 3 should also be dropped. For me, by the time I can get rank 3 I'm usually done with the character.
  • morigosamorigosa Posts: 707 Arc User
    - Energy Penalties: I'd probably say we should keep these - to avoid power creep if for no other reason - but I don't have a strong opinion. It does make for another way to distinguish between different travel powers, with, for example, Athletics/Acrobatics being the cheap generalist option.

    - Combat speed reduction is necessary; it lets you have one travel power that reasonably trades off between being slow enough for precise maneuvering and fast enough to actually get places between battles. That said, the combat speed reduction on most flight powers is excessive - I'd really prefer if they all worked like Jet Pack / Rocket Boots.

    - Yes! As it stands now, you basically don't get your second travel power (or r3 of your travel powers) until you don't really need it anymore. I'd suggest level 20 for the second travel power, and level 30 for rank three.

    - Travel power spec trees would be interesting, but I'm not sure it's actually a good idea; we don't need more power creep in this game. That said, if it happened, I certainly wouldn't complain - I'm one of those crazy people who actually likes complicated options.

    - Probably the best option for making sure everyone has a instance-viable travel power is to make a "default" travel power that everyone gets for free, in the same way everyone gets a default block power. Let's call it "Dash" - it functions like rank one athletics, with the following changes: you can't charge it to start at full speed bonus, and it automatically toggles off and goes on a four second cooldown after a short time (or perhaps on entering combat).

    - In terms of general utility, my favorite travel power is Jet Pack; rank one is as fast in combat as rank three of any other flight power, and it just gets better from there. Well. Until you get into content with a Gravity effect, where the extra snare on flight powers renders it worse than no travel power at all.
    - In terms of looks and special effects, my favorite travel power is fire speed (though I wish I could drop the little boot-shaped glow patches it puts under your feet). Perhaps someday we'll be able to use that effect on an Athletics type power...

    - Tailor-based customization is very clearly superior to any other options; that would allow, for example, setting different special effects & stances for each speed regime, which would be utterly impractical with just creating more skins for the existing travel power system.
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 2,701 Cryptic Developer
    Re: Customizing travel powers via tailor
    Not likely to ever happen. Many parts of travel power FX is built directly into the power and function differently than Aura item fx.​​
  • reiwulfreiwulf Posts: 442 Arc User
    - What do you think about the energy penalties that Travel Powers place on a character whilst active?
    I haven't even noticed it to be honest.

    - What do you think about the significant decrease in travel speed whilst engaging in combat?
    I'm used to it, but full on speed might make battles more dynamic, something CO really could use.

    - Do you think the level requirement for gaining your secondary travel power as well as travel power ranks should be lowered?
    I've never really cared for the 2nd travel power to be honest. I make my characters with a theme in mind and most use only 1.

    - What would be your response to a system which introduces a specialism tree (with its own unique points/ranking to each travel power allowing you to tailor your characters travel powers in more ways than present? (i.e. In Combat Movement Speed increases, minor Defensive boosts, Energy Penalty reductions etc)
    any more customization would always be welcome.

    - How would you make [Insert Travel Power] more practical in instanced missions?
    no idea, to be honest.

    - What is your favorite travel power?
    acrobatics/athletics

    - Would you like to be able to customize more travel powers in the tailor or would you prefer more travel power skins?
    either one would be nice. I'd prefer the first one, but CO has too many systems that are later abandoned...
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  • avianosavianos Posts: 5,556 Arc User
    - What do you think about the energy penalties that Travel Powers place on a character whilst active?

    Dumb but I hardly notice, it's pretty negligible
    Except when leveling with power hungry powers (THANKS TWO GUN MOJO)
    - What do you think about the significant decrease in travel speed while engaging in combat?

    Incredible annoying for FLIGHT themed characters, the speed reduction is so painful
    Not so much for ground travel powers
    Seriously stop nerfing Flight
    - Do you think the level requirement for gaining your secondary travel power as well as travel power ranks should be lowered?
    Yes
    It's really underwhelming that we still have the same system, getting the second TP in lvl 35 is irritating
    - What would be your response to a system which introduces a specialism tree (with its own unique points/ranking to each travel power allowing you to tailor your characters travel powers in more ways than present? (i.e. In Combat Movement Speed increases, minor Defensive boosts, Energy Penalty reductions etc)
    That would be really interesting and Enchanting
    - How would you make [Insert Travel Power] more practical in instanced missions?
    I would BUFF the heck out of FLIGHT powers so they can stop being so slow
    and rework the GRAVITY debuff to not punish flight by making it slower than walking (yeah thanks for ruining my character for the endgame eidolon fight)
    Flight is also painful during fights which movement is required, like TA Medusa fight where she summons the psi bombs, with the speed penalty this is pretty deadly flaw

    Travel powers like Super Jump and swinging could get some boost for indoors. I never use those TP except of secondary themes
    - What is your favorite travel power?
    Good Old Acrobatics/Athletics
    They don't have aura visuals and are very flexible for themes (if you exclude the annoying flipping)
    - Would you like to be able to customize more travel powers in the tailor or would you prefer more travel power skins?
    Something in the middle​​
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,447 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    - What do you think about the energy penalties that Travel Powers place on a character whilst active?
    I guess the idea is that you're paying for the benefit of the power's movement. Sometimes when the fighting dictates that I stand still I'll turn my TP off for better energy costs, but it's not like I can't just turn it on again after. I always calculate my energy needs with my travel power on anyways so this cost doesn't actually impact my moment to moment choices much. Makes more sense than the Form energy penalty tho.


    - What do you think about the significant decrease in travel speed whilst engaging in combat?

    I think we can still move pretty darn fast during combat. ;)
    I don't think we need to be able to move faster than we currently do in combat.


    - Do you think the level requirement for gaining your secondary travel power as well as travel power ranks should be lowered?
    I think it would help a lot of people's themes if they could have both their travel powers right away and wouldn't really impact anything else very much. It would motivate people to start thinking about their movement options much earlier which would be a good thing since it seems there are many flat-footed people in the game.


    - What would be your response to a system which introduces a specialism tree (with its own unique points/ranking to each travel power allowing you to tailor your characters travel powers in more ways than present? (i.e. In Combat Movement Speed increases, minor Defensive boosts, Energy Penalty reductions etc)
    I'd have to see the specifics but I mean sure it could be interesting. You know I likes my movement so adding mechanics specific to that gets my attention, but I think movement is already very useful and powerful as is.


    - How would you make [Insert Travel Power] more practical in instanced missions?

    I would make tunneling powers get you in and out the ground faster during combat. That's really the part that always annoyed me about them.


    - What is your favorite travel power?
    Naruto Run.


    - Would you like to be able to customize more travel powers in the tailor or would you prefer more travel power skins?
    I prefer skins.
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,340 Arc User
    Oh... another change i would LOVE to see made to travel powers... make them respect your chosen stance...
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  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 348 Arc User
    This game has been out a while, and some of the travel powers behave in a way that could be described as outdated, though you must agree, they do still work.

    Flight: Never understood why it has to be slower than others. It was that way in CoH too. But especially with the availability of vehicles, the slowest of which is apparently noticeably faster than flight rank 3, even a character with acrobatics + tunneling can outfly a flight character.

    - What do you think about the energy penalties that Travel Powers place on a character whilst active?
    It seems negligible, which makes me wonder why it's there.

    - What do you think about the significant decrease in travel speed while engaging in combat?
    Outdated videogame meme. If you need to run, you can't, which makes no sense. I would rather it work differently. I hate to say this (because this isn't CoH), but CoH had two powers in travel pools, one which granted utility and one which granted travel. Hover/fly...combat jumping/super jump...teleport friend/teleport. But that would require a single CO travel power to give you 2 buttons, which is NOT going to happen. But if it did, you could automatically revert to hover when you began attacking, then if you began taking too much damage you could activate the travel version to run (though it might cut off your attacks for 5 seconds or something if you do so while in combat). This also won't happen b/c the only thing that would fit into the combat jumping/superjump theme would require one travel power to give you both acrobatics and super jump. :bleep_bloop:

    - Do you think the level requirement for gaining your secondary travel power as well as travel power ranks should be lowered?
    Yes. Level 25 at latest.

    - What would be your response to a system which introduces a specialism tree (with its own unique points/ranking to each travel power allowing you to tailor your characters travel powers in more ways than present? (i.e. In Combat Movement Speed increases, minor Defensive boosts, Energy Penalty reductions etc)
    Travel powers are not combat powers. They should be handled completely separately from them. For example, you shouldn't have to respec almost totally to change that travel power you got at level 6. I wouldn't want any change to get too awfully complicated though; separate points for attack and travel sounds good, but it could be a disaster if done wrong.
    SIDE NOTE: Originally in CoH, you couldn't have a travel power until level 14. It was such a bad idea that they eventually changed it. One good thing about CO, the devs figured you'd need to travel as soon as you got out of the starter area. Good show!

    - How would you make [Insert Travel Power] more practical in instanced missions?
    Not all of them would be practical for that, if you mean inside of buildings. I'm kind of gritting my teeth here (because THIS IS NOT CoH!) but a power similar to CoH's "sprint" ability would probably be the best answer.

    - What is your favorite travel power?
    Flight. It goes up as high as you want (or can, there is a ceiling), it goes across without a problem, in outdoor areas you can avoid combat & other travel obstacles. (Note: tunneling can avoid combat indoors too, so it's better in some ways; still not sure how you dig though flooring though.../) Also, I've found I really don't like really flashy versions of ANY travel power, flight included, so yep, it's plain old flight.

    - Would you like to be able to customize more travel powers in the tailor or would you prefer more travel power skins?
    Not sure.
  • mithrosnomoremithrosnomore Posts: 494 Arc User
    edited January 2017



    So I'd like to focus in on the following things and get people's opinions and just a general discussion on the topic:

    - What do you think about the energy penalties that Travel Powers place on a character whilst active?
    - What do you think about the significant decrease in travel speed whilst engaging in combat?
    - Do you think the level requirement for gaining your secondary travel power as well as travel power ranks should be lowered?
    - What would be your response to a system which introduces a specialism tree (with its own unique points/ranking to each travel power allowing you to tailor your characters travel powers in more ways than present? (i.e. In Combat Movement Speed increases, minor Defensive boosts, Energy Penalty reductions etc)
    - How would you make [Insert Travel Power] more practical in instanced missions?
    - What is your favorite travel power?
    - Would you like to be able to customize more travel powers in the tailor or would you prefer more travel power skins?

    Thanks in advance all.

    1) Not too much of an issue usually.
    If I am in a long fight and energy is a thing then maybe I turn it off, but not usually.

    2) Flight is where I really notice it, and I mean all the different types of flight that I have used.
    More punishing, I guess, because of the advantages it offers.

    3) No real opinion either way.
    I mean, I have four toons, all long-since level capped, and currently little motivation to make another so it just doesn't affect me.

    4) I think most of that could be covered by advantages.

    I know some people have ranked up travel powers for speed but I have never really felt the need to do that.
    If, however, they added some other sorts of advantages, like a dodgee buff for acrobatics or whatever, then it might make me look at spending some points there.

    5) In instanced missions? Depends on the instance and power, I guess. In a lot of rooms flight loses it's benefits. If there are elevation changes then super speed might not be the best.

    This is why acrobatics/athletics tends to be my second travel power for everyone. The speed and jump boost usually provides all the mobility I need on inside maps

    I recently purchased the power armor bundle containing the holo hex armor costumes and the energy slide power and was disappointed.
    I feel like the character is too high off the ground and the power itself doesn't have the same jump as acrobatics/athletics despite being in the same group.

    I bought it hoping it would be the same minus the spinning and flipping.
    The costume pieces are all well and good but acrobatics/athletics did not seem appropriate to the character.
    Still, might end up going with acrobatics/athletics anyway. Want to give it some time and see if I get used to things.

    6) I already said that acrobatics tends to be my second power on everyone, but my favorite is flight (general flight, not necessarily the specific power labeled as flight).
    Flight, fire flight, jet boots, hover disc, etc.
    But not millenial flight or whatever it was called. Can't stand the FX.

    7) If the question is "would you rather be able to determine the specific travel power within a group at the tailor or by unlocking and selecting a different travel power" (as in, I could go to the tailor and decide to make my flight fire flight, then next week make it earth flight, then make it power flight, and so on), then I think that unlocking individual travel powers is better for the game.

    Make people pay for a "special" travel power or add it to an event vendor to encourage their participation.
    All the basics are there. If you really want some specific flight variant then pay for it. If it's not worth $5 then you don't want it that badly.

    And before anyone comes in with some "I'm not made of money like some people", I am not either. You can still get out there and earn some questionite to exchange for Zen.

    One thing I wouldn't mind would be to pull travel powers out of the regular retcon list.
    Maybe let people pay a flat rate to retcon their travel powers like they do to retcon their super stats, talents, and skill tree.
    Only problem with that might be that someone could retcon skill points assigned to a travel power and put them into a regular power if they did that, but maybe they could give players a couple of "travel power only" advantage points and not allow regular skill points to be put into travel powers.

    And I really do mean a couple.
    I figure someone could max out speed with a single travel power (rank 3), boost speed for both travel powers (rank 2 each), or, going back to #4, maybe buy another sort of advantage.
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,340 Arc User
    Ok, so I've been doing a little testing with travel powers lately and I found something regarding the incombat speeds...

    Rank 1 speeds
    No travel = ~25
    Flight = 20
    Jet Flight = 30
    Acrobatics = 40
    Energy Slide = 45
    Superspeed = 50

    For those wondering how I figured no travel to be 25... moving in combat next to an ally using flight while I was walking, I move about the same speed. A player who uses Jet Flight moves just slightly faster in combat than a player who is walking. Energy slide in combat and out of combat is slightly faster than Acro and slower than Superspeed... using that information and the values provided by travel powers I did a little math.

    Flight states it's speed to be +20 Flight Speed and Jet Flight states it's speed to be +30 Flight Speed. So knowing that you've got no travel to be somewhere between 20 and 30.
    Acrobatics states it's speed to be +75% Run Speed, Superspeed is +100% Run Speed, and Energy Slide is +20 Run Speed. We know Energy Slide is slower than Superspeed and faster than Acrobatics so it's easy to rule out 20 as our base Run speed since +20 and +100% both would equal 40.
    Even if we did assume it was 20 and that both moved the same speed in combat then the out of combat math for them puts that out of the question:
    Superspeed: 20 x (1+1+0.85+0.85) = 20 x 3.7 = 74
    Energy Slide: 20 + 20 + 17 + 21 = 78
    78 Run Speed is definately not slower than 74 Run speed. But if our base speed is 25:
    Superspeed: 25 x 3.7 = 92.5
    Energy Slide: 25 + 20 + 17 + 21 = 83
    Now I'm not saying that it absolutely is 25... but it is most assuredly greater than 20. 22 is the absolute minimum that our base run speed could be for Energy Slide to actually have a "Slightly lower top speed than Superspeed" as the tooltip states. At 22, Superspeed would have a top speed of 81.4 and Energy Slide would top at 80 at Rank 1. However the difference between Superspeed at full speed and Energy Slide at full speed is not that slight, it's large enough to be noticed... so 22 is still too low...


    So with that information... WTF Cryptic!!! Why the hell is Flight ACTUALLY SLOWER in combat than walking? And it's not just that the actual movement speed is slower, but the vertical movement speed granted by jumping and falling actually makes no travel power even faster than flight. You move slightly slower on a flat plane with flight than without a travel power and significantly slower up and down... that is NOT acceptable.
    ^-^ cute, cuddly, @Pandabutt ^-^
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  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,519 Arc User
    Energy Penalties
    Honestly, the energy penalties should probably just...go away. There already seems to be plenty in place to restrict travel powers in content--hard disable such as during Cybermind, gravity, etc. Most of them slow down during combat, especially flight which suffers a massive speed penalty and has a slow ramp-up afterward. Teleport gets a reduced duration and short lockout period if you attack something shortly after coming out of it.

    I'd say the restrictions in place are plenty fair, so there's no need to pile an energy penalty on top of it.

    In-Combat Speed Reduction
    I think this is actually good. From a developer standpoint, it becomes really hard to challenge players if they can zip out of every damage circle that spawns on the ground well before it goes off. If everyone could scoot around at full rank 3 speed, the only way they'd be able to hit players is with the massive aoe cheese they use currently. Or if they targeted players directly (in which case the only "skill" comes from pressing the block button. Or if the player fell asleep, crashed, or their pet jumped up on the keyboard.

    Second Travel Power @ 35
    Maybe it could be a bit lower (20-30?) but it doesn't really matter to me. You already get one pretty much right out of the tutorial so it's not like there's this horrific grind required to "finally" unlock decent mobility.

    Travel Power Spec Tree
    Would it compete with existing specialization trees? So I'd have to choose between Guardicator or...Speedicator? If so, then definitely not. If it were to be something to replace advantage point investment for travel powers (something I think is terrible and needs to go) then...maybe I guess. I'm not a fan of "spec trees" in general because they're a tricky thing to balance. Generally you have the path consisting of "right choices" vs a bunch of other paths with "wrong choices." Thus, most people end up picking the same things despite the "choice."

    Still, anything to get travel powers out of the advantage point competition.

    Travel Power vs Instances
    Not sure what this means. Currently, I think it's fine that flight and superjump suck in tight indoor areas because they're a lot better outdoors. At least flight is, as I don't have much experience with super jump.

    Favorite Travel Power
    Teleport. Definitely. While sure, it's annoying to "fly" with teleport, I find it to be a very stylish travel power that is uniquely useful despite the fact you can't toggle it on and forget about it in combat. Kinda wish it wouldn't shut off whatever other travel power I have on when I use it, though.

    Travel Powers, Skins, Tailors
    Ideally, I'd like to be able to set my travel power skin in the tailor rather than having to step through an undo tree (removing powers I actually want to keep just to reach it) in the powerhouse. That way, since I have Teleport, I can then buy one of the skinned varieties of Teleport, then head to the tailor and set it. Then, I can later buy a second Teleport skin and apply it to a different costume. Now, I can switch costumes and with it, teleport variants.​​
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 348 Arc User
    There are some really good points here. If you are using a POWER, you shouldn't be moving at the same speed as basic movement (walking), you should be moving faster. The travel powers probably shouldn't even be grouped with other powers, you should be able to change them in the PH at any time at a flat cost, even if it's a per-level cost. Maybe there shouldn't be a cost at all.

    Frankly, I'm stuck on the two-button idea, though I'm not sure how that would work in the limited framework of your powers tray. I guess they could add to it so you could have room (if necessary, it may not be--it's not THAT limited). Two buttons--one for "alternate movement", the other for "ever-increasing speed". The alternate movement could make you "combat fly" or use "combat acrobatics" or whatever. If you're in speed-up mode and start combat, you revert to combat fly/acrobatics/etc. If you get in real trouble (and maybe ONLY if you get in real trouble) you can hit speed-up to run or fly or jump away, with your attack powers temporarily turned off. If you get your travel power canceled, the attacks immediately turn back on. (Actually, teleport has a short cooldown if you use it in combat, so it's already somewhat like this.) If you use the second button to actually start traveling, you start at half speed and increase in stages as normal (though maybe fewer). Maybe even if you use the first button there could be an option to automatically activate the second if you don't enter combat within a certain time.

    But there is a downside to this--right now you only need one button, and that's what everyone is used to. Two buttons could be annoying. I guess they could keep it on one (you'd have to double-tap it to turn your travel power off, otherwise you'd keep toggling b/t the two movement modes; no reason to easily drop yourself out of the air if you're flying. Even so, that idea is its own can of worms.) And then you wouldn't end up with four buttons for two travel powers.

    But even though I say all this, I wonder if these ideas would work. I'll have to think about it some more.
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 348 Arc User
    Additional thoughts: Sometimes when I'm using plain old Fly and charge it up all the way, I still start flying at base speed, or at half speed. I've begun to watch what exactly I'm doing, and usually I hold down the button until it completes before releasing it, and this still happens. Also, I have a test character that uses jet pack flight. which acts differently because it doesn't charge up but starts at low speed and speeds up. I find this a bit irritating, it's not too bad since I don't usually use it. You'd think a tech hero would know how to go fast immediately.

    I'm all for similar powers working differently. It adds "flavor" to the game. However, if fly is not going to work as it should 100% of the time, it should be updated. And less sensible limitations (like jet pack not being able to start of at higher speeds) should probably be removed because it's a travel power. You use it to travel. Think about it when compared to a real-life motor vehicle. In a car, you speed up according to speed limit. Although it isn't instant (the real world is subject to gravity and momentum and such), it really doesn't take that long. If jet pack isn't going to be like other travel powers, it could at least speed up faster (outside of combat, of course). Maybe all travel power should.
  • edited February 2017
    The energy penalty is pretty silly, because it doesn't actually do anything. Players overcome it easily.

    I also see no reason players should have to wait until a certain level to take r2 and r3. Being able to fly or run around quickly at level 6 wouldn't really change anything in terms of difficulty.

    Even limiting when people can take their second travel power seems somewhat questionable to me.
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 348 Arc User
    Maybe the two travel powers should be primary and secondary.

    Primary Travel Power: Level 6. Ranks up automatically (i. e., without the player putting points into it) at level 12 and level 18; at level 24 it achieves "Primary" Rank, making it faster/more effective than a fully ranked travel power. NOTE: Any advantages associated with the power will work as before.

    Secondary Travel Power: Level 15 or maybe 20. It doesn't affect combat all that much so why not? Other than the level it can be chosen, no changes. It must be ranked as it always has.

    That would allow players to have a really effective first (primary) travel power, and a reasonable secondary, even if no points are invested in the secondary. Players who like fly (me! me! me!) will be able to zip around like bosses; other players would be able to run & jump like super jack rabbits and fly when necessary (if fly is secondary).

    Curious about how teleport would be as a primary....
  • I've done it. It worked just fine for me. I really don't see what the big deal is about people not liking it for travelling. Perhaps it was because it was my first character, so I wasn't used to faster options yet, but by the time you're on your second or third character, you likely have access to a vehicle anyway.
  • kaosarcannakaosarcanna Posts: 124 Arc User
    Probably not technically feasible at this point in time, but I wish that Travel Powers were in a separate retcon category so that you could easily swap one out if a more thematic-appropriate one became available later. (For instance if we ever get an electric-themed acrobatics I can think of several of my characters I'd want that on.)

  • Its a shame wall climbing is not possible. That alone had me playing DCUO for a stretch.

    I really really with they'd fix the bug where athletics suddnely turns you into super spazoid with legs and arms moving too fast. And while your at it add a little head and body bounce so you don't look like your runnjng with a glass of water balanced on your head.
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,340 Arc User

    Its a shame wall climbing is not possible. That alone had me playing DCUO for a stretch.



    I really really with they'd fix the bug where athletics suddnely turns you into super spazoid with legs and arms moving too fast. And while your at it add a little head and body bounce so you don't look like your runnjng with a glass of water balanced on your head.

    That bug isn't restricted to Athletics, it happens with ALL travel powers, it's triggered by any forced animation such as from a Knockback or Hold getting applied to your character, although there is also another factor in play that is unkown.... and it is also caused by momentary lag spikes...
    ^-^ cute, cuddly, @Pandabutt ^-^
    jniKqKJ.png
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