test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Dino Down

2

Comments

  • cptmassive1cptmassive1 Posts: 120 Arc User


    Want to kill dino at 80% reliability? Make sure your dps toon's base damage is over 2500/s, don't stand in the tail zone and know the regen tell. If everyone did that we wouldn't be saying dino is difficult.

    But still, even if you do 4k DPS, you still have to account for everyone there. Your 4k doesn't mean jack if 10 people don't know or can't do spike damage.



    Yeah that's why I said "everyone." :) If every dps showed up and did an average of 2500 plus spikes with AO dino would be done successfully within 20 minutes 80% of the time and extra tanks and healers wouldn't matter. The other 20% would be those quirky things you mentioned. Sure they happen, but lots of them happen when dino could and should have already been downed but isn't because of missed checks.

    And usually, either the tanks have a wipe early for whatever reason (easy to restart) or the tanks fail because they have been tanking for 45-120 minutes and then get tired and miss a block or somesuch. I don't consider that to be their fault.

    There are simply too many dps showing up to dino with low dps builds and still others who block at the wrong times. I can tell in the first few minutes (when parsing) whether or not the run is going to be successful. I know it sounds annoying when I say things like "too many sub-1000 dps happening" but math is math and that means the average is going to be too low and we are not going to win. Fine, some will (and have) shoot the messenger but the numbers are a good indicator.

    I also think healers should be built to be able to handle baby attacks. With a rank 3 block and 6.5K + hp you should be able to survive baby's breath attack and if blocking, tail or bite. Mine has ~ 7K hp and usually only dies to momma when she gets loose or suddenly angles and attacks while I'm being slow.

  • This content has been removed.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    gradii said:

    And that is an unrealistic expectation for open world content.

    Except it clearly is realistic, since the dino has been downed. Yes, it's not always successful... but that is intended after all. This content wasn't made by David Cage.
  • cptmassive1cptmassive1 Posts: 120 Arc User
    gradii said:



    And that is an unrealistic expectation for open world content.


    We'll disagree then but dino has been downed over one hundred times since May that I know of and I am not on all the time. Since the "evil" patch (and I agree it is tougher lately) it has been downed ~ 2 dozen times that I know of, and I haven't been playing it as much since I don't need the rewards from the daily.

    I put dps toons in merc gear and with a little effort can get 2500/s fairly regularly and the ones that don't, I retool. And I never understood the "open world content" argument because people don't really stumble upon a cosmic fight. When they go to those locations it is almost 100% with the purpose in mind or at least to watch, barring griefing of course. It isn't like Dino is in anyone's way or required for anything. You can complete every type of purchase you want without ever doing dino at all. If it were instanced you'd still have people showing up and having to learn or fail and you'd still have people who help and people who are jerks.

    I'm of the opinion that it it is neither elitist nor unfair for a video game to require modification in build and/or tactics from the players in order to be successful for the top level content in the game. It is also not unfair for Cryptic to require expenditure of resources for these modifications because retcons really aren't that expensive (and do they still give free ones at 40? I'm LTS so I haven't noticed) to get alts ready for this content. Right now if you flat out just buy a retcon it is $10 because of the anniversary discount, less with bonus zen depending on what else you're doing.

    You go to the movies with popcorn and you're paying twice that. You golf it is 5 times that or more. I consider a few hours' worth of play for retconning to be better in value since you keep the build afterward. It is all in how you look at it.


  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 979 Arc User
    At least a couple of the recent successful Dino attempts I've been on have even been done without much calling the DPS checks. One went the entire fight without any check calls, except Smackwell going "great!" after each successful check. I know for me, the more I practice, the better I get at spotting the timing on the checks.
    - - - - -
    SIGNATURE:
    Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
  • zemmaxzemmax Posts: 301 Arc User
    Few days ago she went down in under 5 minutes.

    rekt.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,570 Arc User
    This is true to some extent, but if people feel like they have to break theme on their favorite characters in order to be of use (or worse, not a hindrance) in end game content they will become unhappy. They may ask what the point was in lovingly crafting a certain build for 40 levels, only to have to take out some parts they really enjoyed. IMHO any fight that can only be won through a narrow stream of options is not so fun as those with multiple paths to victory. E.g. I think it would be fun if cc had some real point in the dino fight, like maybe some number of ccers could keep baby busy in some way (i.e. not need a baby tank set up). That would give another way to get to victory, and give ccers a role there, and I think that would be more fun.

    I've been wondering, given the need for ccers for ape, if we would see more players building cc characters. I already had one, so just needed a little non-theme breaking tweaking. Maybe ape fights get going a little faster now, but it still seems like the same few people showing up with ccers with most everyone else still wanting to use dps.


    I'm of the opinion that it it is neither elitist nor unfair for a video game to require modification in build and/or tactics from the players in order to be successful for the top level content in the game. It is also not unfair for Cryptic to require expenditure of resources for these modifications because retcons really aren't that expensive (and do they still give free ones at 40? I'm LTS so I haven't noticed) to get alts ready for this content. Right now if you flat out just buy a retcon it is $10 because of the anniversary discount, less with bonus zen depending on what else you're doing.

    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,898 Arc User
    Dino went down last night after 3 attempts. Sometimes failure is just about bad luck with timing. You just got to stay calm and carry on.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • cptmassive1cptmassive1 Posts: 120 Arc User
    My answer to that would be, "dont." If it is that specific, play a toon for endgame and play toons for other things.

    However, if every build could just show up and nuke the dino regardless of dps or block ranking, that wouldn't be a challenge at all. I am wondering if anyone could craft content that includes every possible power combo/variable/random builds and still be a challenge. I am betting the answer is a resounding no. If the challenge is completely external to the build then it will soon be just another puzzle combination and will be almost auto-win. Or 3-5 people who do all the work and a bunch of people along for the ride.

    Even on the kiga fight (and that is the closest endgame stuff to "easy" there is for everyone but the dog sitter), glass cannon dps and healer builds very quickly learn they need a decent block and some sort of defense and can't just pewpew their way through.

    That said, every one of my 40s (now up to 20) plays these missions and I don't feel I have sacrificed theme in any of them. I have sacrificed individual powers that I originally wanted but didn't work out but I don't equate losing a power with losing a theme.

    And my experience on groupings is that often I show up with my healer and there are 9 of them and whenever I want to dps people are crying for a healer. So I just made 3 more tanks and will be tanking more soon once I have the builds right for the new threat workup. :p
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User

    This is true to some extent, but if people feel like they have to break theme on their favorite characters in order to be of use (or worse, not a hindrance) in end game content they will become unhappy.

    Well if you know anyone like this, please inform them that they don't have to break theme to be of use/not a hindrance. When it comes to "fixing up a build" for performance it generally has more to do with tweaking numbers than it does with swapping out powers. Even when swapping out powers, theme can generally be preserved. Anytime someone comes to be for build advice, preserving their theme is the #1 objective... which is really disappointing to people who come to me hoping for some sort of monstrous frankenbest build.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User

    This is true to some extent, but if people feel like they have to break theme on their favorite characters in order to be of use (or worse, not a hindrance) in end game content they will become unhappy.

    There are three stages to adapting to end game content:
    1. Learn the fight better. This doesn't require any build changes and doesn't interfere with theme. Many builds are actually sufficient if played right.
    2. Try to adjust your character within your theme. The biggest offenders tend to be hybrids that do multiple things and don't do any of them especially well; does it actually break your theme to use, say, an offensive passive?
    3. Play a different character.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,570 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    I still think that part of the fault lies with the devs for creating scenarios with rather limited paths to victory. E.g. at the moment none of the cosmics can be done by pet builds. If using pets is your favorite thing, then you're favorite character is excluded from the cosmic hunt content, unless spamming your EB makes you feel heroic. Sure, they can't create a situation where every possible build is equally useful all the time. Just at the moment you can't really start the hunts unless you have a fairly restricted constellation of heroes present.

    Also, if, because it gives you pleasure, you want to get top end gear for a particular character then you have to play that character in end game content, no matter how suitable and no matter how it might affect the success of the run for others, so playing a different character isn't an option.
    Post edited by jaazaniah1 on
    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User

    I still think that part of the fault lies with the devs for creating scenarios with rather limited paths to victory. E.g. at the moment none of the cosmics can be done by pet builds. If using pets is your favorite thing, then you're favorite character is excluded from the cosmic hunt content, unless spamming your EB makes you feel heroic. Sure, they can't create a situation where every possible build is equally useful all the time. Just at the moment you can't really start the hunts unless you have a fairly restricted constellation of heroes present.

    I dunno, "everything but pet characters" doesn't seem particularly limited.
  • darqaura2darqaura2 Posts: 932 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    spinnytop said:

    I still think that part of the fault lies with the devs for creating scenarios with rather limited paths to victory. E.g. at the moment none of the cosmics can be done by pet builds. If using pets is your favorite thing, then you're favorite character is excluded from the cosmic hunt content, unless spamming your EB makes you feel heroic. Sure, they can't create a situation where every possible build is equally useful all the time. Just at the moment you can't really start the hunts unless you have a fairly restricted constellation of heroes present.

    I dunno, "everything but pet characters" doesn't seem particularly limited.
    If it's endgame content then all available builds really should be viable in at least ONE encounter. Not necessarily all. I'd like to one day see a cosmic that focuses on pets being needed for its defeat.

    Ofcourse they would have to make pets suck less first.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    darqaura2 said:


    Ofcourse they would have to make pets suck less first.

    Well yeah, there you go. The encounters aren't the problem, the pets are. If pets would behave in a reasonable way, they would be viable in any encounter.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User

    I still think that part of the fault lies with the devs for creating scenarios with rather limited paths to victory. E.g. at the moment none of the cosmics can be done by pet builds.

    That has more to do with pets being horrible than with the design of the cosmics. If pets actually functioned well they would be usable. Pet builds are actually pretty much useless in all content.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,570 Arc User
    Well, the point I'm making is that you can't even use them if you want to. How useful they are is another matter. Another example is that sigils are pretty worthless. It seems that the best debuff one can bring is mini drive.

    I still think that part of the fault lies with the devs for creating scenarios with rather limited paths to victory. E.g. at the moment none of the cosmics can be done by pet builds.

    That has more to do with pets being horrible than with the design of the cosmics. If pets actually functioned well they would be usable. Pet builds are actually pretty much useless in all content.
    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    You know... there IS an in-game mechanic that somewhat rewards people for pet spamming....

    Big BOOM boss powers with a target cap. MegaDs can sometimes be gimmicked like this. who cares about pet DPS when you can use them as shields for DPSers? \o/
    ChampsWiki
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My characters
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    We just downed it again. 2pm est...that's what like 6:30pm in the UK?
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    I think more like 8:30.
    ChampsWiki
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My characters
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,598 Arc User
    The UK is currently on GMT+1, so 2pm EST is 7pm here in the UK.
    zrdRBy8.png
    Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
  • darqaura2darqaura2 Posts: 932 Arc User
    spinnytop said:

    darqaura2 said:


    Ofcourse they would have to make pets suck less first.

    Well yeah, there you go. The encounters aren't the problem, the pets are. If pets would behave in a reasonable way, they would be viable in any encounter.
    They are pretty reasonable in anywhere else but end game. And that's expected with the type of endgame we have. The problem is what's required in the endgame content the devs build is not required in 90% of the rest of the game. You can basically roll your face on your keyboard and do well in 90% of the game. Which is why pets are fine there.

    When you start creating and having content that requires precise movement and coordination that is when the inherent problems of pets is amplified.

    AKA make then suck less first devs.
  • darqaura2darqaura2 Posts: 932 Arc User
    edited September 2016

    I still think that part of the fault lies with the devs for creating scenarios with rather limited paths to victory. E.g. at the moment none of the cosmics can be done by pet builds.

    That has more to do with pets being horrible than with the design of the cosmics. If pets actually functioned well they would be usable. Pet builds are actually pretty much useless in all content.
    False. Pet builds are viable in 90% of the game. Endgame content however has specific coordination and requirements that shows that pets do need help. But to say that Pet builds are useless in all content in CO is not true. They do just fine in anything but endgame content.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    Enh. Pet builds are sometimes useful... like for distracting Mega-Ds.
    ChampsWiki
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My characters
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    darqaura2 said:

    I still think that part of the fault lies with the devs for creating scenarios with rather limited paths to victory. E.g. at the moment none of the cosmics can be done by pet builds.

    That has more to do with pets being horrible than with the design of the cosmics. If pets actually functioned well they would be usable. Pet builds are actually pretty much useless in all content.
    False. Pet builds are viable in 90% of the game. Endgame content however has specific coordination and requirements that shows that pets do need help. But to say that Pet builds are useless in all content in CO is not true. They do just fine in anything but endgame content.
    If adjustments were made to pets so that they could fulfill those endgame requirements, it would also improve them in the other 90% of the game.
  • darqaura2darqaura2 Posts: 932 Arc User
    spinnytop said:

    darqaura2 said:

    I still think that part of the fault lies with the devs for creating scenarios with rather limited paths to victory. E.g. at the moment none of the cosmics can be done by pet builds.

    That has more to do with pets being horrible than with the design of the cosmics. If pets actually functioned well they would be usable. Pet builds are actually pretty much useless in all content.
    False. Pet builds are viable in 90% of the game. Endgame content however has specific coordination and requirements that shows that pets do need help. But to say that Pet builds are useless in all content in CO is not true. They do just fine in anything but endgame content.
    If adjustments were made to pets so that they could fulfill those endgame requirements, it would also improve them in the other 90% of the game.
    Depends on what the adjustments were . . .
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    are you familiar with the way carrier commands work in STO? Pets in CO seem to use the default which is "wander around somewhere near me and shoot at anything that moves". You can tell them to do more specific things like "shoot at whatever I'm shooting at".
    ChampsWiki
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My characters
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,746 Arc User
    WE just did these runs
    Grimoire in, as you can see from the kigi picture, not good gear. Legion defence, blue mission gear-offence, green mission gear utility, normal purple secondaries.
    Kiga I stood at the back of dps , aimed at someone at the front and spam healed.
    Ape I did get bombed, heal, dps while I could, repeat.
    So anyone wants to claim the Grimoire is no use or can't take part in Cosmic fights, here's the pictures.
    grimoire_zpsoytby8id.png

    grimoire%202_zpsyh2wtg6z.png​​
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
    4e1f62c7-8ea7-4996-8f22-bae41fea063b_zpsu7p3urv1.jpg

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • cptmassive1cptmassive1 Posts: 120 Arc User
    Kind of peripherally related but it seems that pet builds even in their current form might do fine in the new zone. I have only spent an hour or two there but I am planning to take my pet build over there sometime to try it out. Unless the zone opens before I get a chance.

    The way dino has been the only reason pets couldn't be used is if they make dino slide around IIRC. That is another design issue and not really a pet problem. Seems baby dying has been a thing anyway and not always destructive. Incidentally I took my build out to dino solo once just to see what would happen, since that build can summon them just about as fast as they can be killed. I stand in my circle at 50' and let the pets do the work. NP, right? Nope, dino bit the pets and used the Venomous blast on me, which is usually reserved for when no one is in melee range. Seems the devs thought of that one. :)
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    darqaura2 said:

    I still think that part of the fault lies with the devs for creating scenarios with rather limited paths to victory. E.g. at the moment none of the cosmics can be done by pet builds.

    That has more to do with pets being horrible than with the design of the cosmics. If pets actually functioned well they would be usable. Pet builds are actually pretty much useless in all content.
    False. Pet builds are viable in 90% of the game.
    While pet builds are usable in 90% of the game, so are a wide variety of other terrible options. That doesn't make pets good or even average, that just makes this game so easy that it mostly doesn't matter that pets are bad.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    darqaura2 said:

    Depends on what the adjustments were . . .

    Sure, but that's so obvious it's not even worth mentioning...
  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 979 Arc User
    chaelk said:

    WE just did these runs

    But what is the deal with the scary laser eye cat?!
    - - - - -
    SIGNATURE:
    Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
  • darqaura2darqaura2 Posts: 932 Arc User

    darqaura2 said:

    I still think that part of the fault lies with the devs for creating scenarios with rather limited paths to victory. E.g. at the moment none of the cosmics can be done by pet builds.

    That has more to do with pets being horrible than with the design of the cosmics. If pets actually functioned well they would be usable. Pet builds are actually pretty much useless in all content.
    False. Pet builds are viable in 90% of the game.
    While pet builds are usable in 90% of the game, so are a wide variety of other terrible options. That doesn't make pets good or even average, that just makes this game so easy that it mostly doesn't matter that pets are bad.
    Or that the content in the game is easy mode.
    If the focus is now on better content (remains to be seen) then it really needs to be fixed to stress better build throughout the life of the game, not just at level 40. This is similar to the DPS builds issue. Pitiful dps can get you through 90% of the game. It can not reliable get you through all the end game content.

    My point here is that the game is trying to teach two different things pre-40 and post-40. That should be fixed. And its not only a build issue.
  • darqaura2darqaura2 Posts: 932 Arc User
    spinnytop said:

    darqaura2 said:

    Depends on what the adjustments were . . .

    Sure, but that's so obvious it's not even worth mentioning...
    Seeing as how other mmos I've participated in over the years have royally f*(&ed it up, it actually MIGHT be worth mentioning. :p
  • darqaura2darqaura2 Posts: 932 Arc User

    chaelk said:

    WE just did these runs

    But what is the deal with the scary laser eye cat?!
    That cat looks familiar. :o
  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 979 Arc User
    The issue CO has that many MMORPGs do not have is also what is greatest about it, flexibility in building. Most games give you limited flexibility in your ability choices, once you pick a certain path. This means that characters tend to be more "balanced", but more importantly, the devs can build monsters against a certain structure. The flexibility of builds in CO means that there can be an incredible disparity in punishing power across builds, much larger than normal games. Makes it much harder to make a balanced cosmic encounter.

    Now, I have been playing the PnP since V1, so I guess I am just more used to this situation than many. I have GMed hundreds of games, with many dozens of players, often with vastly different combat abilities. So, to me, this is no big deal. You send the lopsided combat-monsters after the big monsters, and you send the skill-heavy sleuths to skulk through the seedy bars. It's okay if Catwoman can't contribute to Superman's fight with Doomsday because she has other talents and duties.

    The solution to the problem is build a variety of characters and apply them to the content most applicable to their skills. Saying that every build should be able to participate in every cosmic fight is totally not in keeping with the source material (comic books and the original game).
    - - - - -
    SIGNATURE:
    Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 979 Arc User
    darqaura2 said:

    My point here is that the game is trying to teach two different things pre-40 and post-40. That should be fixed. And its not only a build issue.

    This has been my point all along. For levels 1-39, you can pretty much solo rofflestomp nearly everything with any random gimp build (and the stuff you can't rofflestomp you can skip without any penalty). Then suddenly at the high end of 40, for the epic content, you have to learn actual strategy AND how to work together! In other games, where teaming through the levels was both encouraged and rewarded, and often necessary, and strategy was often useful and sometime required, by the time people got max level, they had dozens of levels of training of how to team and the benefit of strategy. So, when they went to hunt mega-monsters, they knew to team up and listened to experienced players. Even then there were some issues, but I do not recall any so much as we have here.
    - - - - -
    SIGNATURE:
    Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User

    The issue CO has that many MMORPGs do not have is also what is greatest about it, flexibility in building. Most games give you limited flexibility in your ability choices, once you pick a certain path. This means that characters tend to be more "balanced", but more importantly, the devs can build monsters against a certain structure. The flexibility of builds in CO means that there can be an incredible disparity in punishing power across builds, much larger than normal games. Makes it much harder to make a balanced cosmic encounter.

    Now, I have been playing the PnP since V1, so I guess I am just more used to this situation than many. I have GMed hundreds of games, with many dozens of players, often with vastly different combat abilities. So, to me, this is no big deal. You send the lopsided combat-monsters after the big monsters, and you send the skill-heavy sleuths to skulk through the seedy bars. It's okay if Catwoman can't contribute to Superman's fight with Doomsday because she has other talents and duties.

    The solution to the problem is build a variety of characters and apply them to the content most applicable to their skills. Saying that every build should be able to participate in every cosmic fight is totally not in keeping with the source material (comic books and the original game).

    That's two completely different missions.....
    ChampsWiki
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My characters
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,898 Arc User
    chaelk said:

    WE just did these runs

    Grimoire in, as you can see from the kigi picture, not good gear. Legion defence, blue mission gear-offence, green mission gear utility, normal purple secondaries.

    Kiga I stood at the back of dps , aimed at someone at the front and spam healed.

    Ape I did get bombed, heal, dps while I could, repeat.

    So anyone wants to claim the Grimoire is no use or can't take part in Cosmic fights, here's the pictures.

    grimoire_zpsoytby8id.png



    grimoire%202_zpsyh2wtg6z.png​​

    Thats an elder worms utility green thats better than most purples :D
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    Wait what? I wanna see stats! That sounds like mission reward gear...
    ChampsWiki
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My characters
  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,811 Arc User
    And what does he have slotted in them? Because his stats are 2/3 times the amount my Grimmy has with merc gear loaded with level five mods. 433 Intel???
    'Dec out

    QDSxNpT.png
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,746 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    And what does he have slotted in them? Because his stats are 2/3 times the amount my Grimmy has with merc gear loaded with level five mods. 433 Intel???

    Let me check.

    8663 hps, 131/250 energy
    Passive +64 to all

    Spec tree - mastery + 10 to non SS's.

    Prim off(blue mission gear); R6 int-57, Ego 53 from gear
    Sec off- 20/20 ego/pre
    Prim Def(legion health) -2 x R6 Int- 114
    Sec def - 20/20 ego/pre
    Util(green mission, worm temple)- Gear +45 Int, R7 dex- 59, R6 con- 55
    Sec Util- 37 Int.


    Talents -
    con/dex/rec and JOAT

    I don't stack only SS's, I spread them out.​​
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
    4e1f62c7-8ea7-4996-8f22-bae41fea063b_zpsu7p3urv1.jpg

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,570 Arc User
    But there they are, in the game, as an option for players to use. I mentioned pets as just one example of powers we can't really use for cosmics but can use just about everywhere else without detriment to the cause. Just a few other examples. Regen and PFF are not useful for tanking, and only extreme Dodge builds can handle it. However, Regen and Dodge can work in all other situations (PFF is off on its own). Like your tricked out vehicle? Don't bring it to cosmics. If devs are going to give us powers I feel they have a certain obligation to make them at least usable (not necessarily world beaters) in the high end content. That means either fixing the powers or fixing the missions.

    I still think that part of the fault lies with the devs for creating scenarios with rather limited paths to victory. E.g. at the moment none of the cosmics can be done by pet builds.

    That has more to do with pets being horrible than with the design of the cosmics. If pets actually functioned well they would be usable. Pet builds are actually pretty much useless in all content.
    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    chaelk said:


    And what does he have slotted in them? Because his stats are 2/3 times the amount my Grimmy has with merc gear loaded with level five mods. 433 Intel???
    Let me check.
    8663 hps, 131/250 energy
    Passive +64 to all
    Spec tree - mastery + 10 to non SS's.
    Prim off(blue mission gear); R6 int-57, Ego 53 from gear
    Sec off- 20/20 ego/pre
    Prim Def(legion health) -2 x R6 Int- 114
    Sec def - 20/20 ego/pre
    Util(green mission, worm temple)- Gear +45 Int, R7 dex- 59, R6 con- 55
    Sec Util- 37 Int.
    Talents -
    con/dex/rec and JOAT
    I don't stack only SS's, I spread them out.​​
    And it's still better than mine with Heroics....
    ChampsWiki
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My characters
  • cptmassive1cptmassive1 Posts: 120 Arc User
    I have also heard both regen and dodge tanks are not good for cosmics.

    So I made regen and dodge tanks for cosmics. Gonna try them out soon. :)

    Maybe they won't be able to solo but I am hopeful they can still function OK. The challenge is not getting yelled at during Kiga if it doesn't go well, but there really is no other way to test for that.

    ...always trying to find the challenge via "suboptimal" builds :) It worked for my "squishy" healer after I was told I was going to never be useful because I would die all the time. Now I see some clones of that build popping up.

    And I have a melee DPS with an offense of 12.3 who does OK too. What's the opposite of uber-building? Maybe I can start a SG for those.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,570 Arc User
    Ms. Molecule, my least optimized lvl 40, has proven very useful for cosmics. She brings the AoAC and the mini drive debuff. We don't have to be dps monsters, uber tanks, or star healers to contribute. I would just like to see as many powers as possible be of use in high end content, not things we have to put in a closet and forget about. The devs made kiga and ape specifically so that cc would have a role, after all.
    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,746 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    And what does he have slotted in them? Because his stats are 2/3 times the amount my Grimmy has with merc gear loaded with level five mods. 433 Intel???
    Let me check.
    8663 hps, 131/250 energy
    Passive +64 to all
    Spec tree - mastery + 10 to non SS's.
    Prim off(blue mission gear); R6 int-57, Ego 53 from gear
    Sec off- 20/20 ego/pre
    Prim Def(legion health) -2 x R6 Int- 114
    Sec def - 20/20 ego/pre
    Util(green mission, worm temple)- Gear +45 Int, R7 dex- 59, R6 con- 55
    Sec Util- 37 Int.
    Talents -
    con/dex/rec and JOAT
    I don't stack only SS's, I spread them out.And it's still better than mine with Heroics....

    the green utility gear you get from Worm Temple mission is very good, there's also an equivalent one in a VB mission.
    look in the AH for for blues with extras. The off primary gave me 53 Ego plus 2 slots.​​
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
    4e1f62c7-8ea7-4996-8f22-bae41fea063b_zpsu7p3urv1.jpg

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    Well, part of the diff is that my gear has lower ranked mods. Also... some of my mods are for stuff like critical chance. Also I'm using a Heroic Helmet of Topography.... Topography is the one that lets you see people on the minimap, it doesn't directly help in combat.
    ChampsWiki
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My characters
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,268 Arc User
    Even on the kiga fight (and that is the closest endgame stuff to "easy" there is for everyone but the dog sitter), glass cannon dps and healer builds very quickly learn they need a decent block and some sort of defense and can't just pewpew their way through.

    They're boring, though. That's the main problem with the Cosmics. Wait 30 minutes for the team to form, spend another 30 minutes getting shouted at in some minor role while others do the important stuff. Win. Or not. Who cares? They lack unpredictability and fun; to succeed, everything has to be done according to the script. I was in the other Monster Island zone last night while a load of people were doing the Cosmics and Zone chat was an epic whinge fest, more than an epic Encounter. As it was the weekend a load of people who didn't know the rules had turned up and were, apparently, spoiling it all for the GCR grinders. And this is the wrong way around.....

    We've all been happily playing the same old content for years, and aren't yet completely bored of it all - why not? Because we never quite know, when a PUG forms for a Grab Alert, or Gravitar, or Sky Command, how it's going to go. It's a bit different every time. Unless - heartsink moment - the team has an Epidemic spammer or some OP player who can do it all with one eye open. Then we hate them, with all the power we can muster, because they're making it dull and predictable. The Cosmics, TA, and the like, feel like they have to be done the same way every time or fail - and that's not much fun.

  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    edited September 2016

    They're boring, though. That's the main problem with the Cosmics.

    That problem is entirely too subjective to be solved. In fact, it's so subjective that there are people who wouldn't even acknowledge it as a problem. Significantly, a few of those people are the ones who get paid to make content for the game.

    We've all been happily playing the same old content for years, and aren't yet
    completely bored of it all - why not? Because we never quite know, when a PUG forms for a Grab Alert, or Gravitar, or Sky Command, how it's going to go. It's a bit different every time.

    I have to disagree with that. Those encounters are every bit as much "by the script" as the cosmics are. Then again, I've seen the cosmics beaten in ways that were completely off script and literally just happened in the moment, so maybe I've just seem more unpredictability in action in these encounters. Hell, I've see wins that I never thought could work... times where I was running out of the fight with the expectation that we would be resetting, and slowly waddled back in when I saw things were going okay, and then we won.
Sign In or Register to comment.