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pwestolemyname
Posts: 978 Arc User
Just for all those that said it can't be done, it was done on August 30 at about 11:10pm EST. Yeah, it took 9 tries, but the final run was actually pretty smooth. Had a few of the "elite" players on, but was mostly just regular folks like you and me. We had perseverance and a few folks keeping spirits high, that was key. Anyway, for all the naysayers, I told you so...
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And Dino had been killed before . . . sooooo not sure why anyone said it couldn't be done.
Yes, it can be done. But it shouldn't be this hard.
But glad it was done.
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Also, there was not much standing around blabbing after each fail. That is usually what eats up so much time. We failed, bitched for a couple minutes, then got back down to it.
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I'll be back in CO later this week. May join for another attempt.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
i meant 1 month since i joined all i hear is "dino fail dino fail, nerf dino, never win dino". my math is fine, im just simply putting words to describe the community's overall reaction/feeling.
But if it's so hard it makes forum topics and trends when won, then I can guess how OP the bosses must be. I was there watching, trying to learn what it takes. It was horrible to watch ^^
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
Takes dedication for all those who stuck out the entire or most of time.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Let's take a look at Kiga. He didn't used to be very popular did he? Had to find all those tanks, lots of room for error, big pain in the butt, people didn't wanna do it, more people didn't wanna do it harder time we had finding all those tanks, etc etc... Then vixy did a thing, and extremely quickly Kiga became the #1 favorite Cosmic star. Basically the same thing happened with Ape and CCing hearts.
The thing with Dino is that thus far there doesn't seem to be a way that one or two players can lock up the fight like they can with Kiga and Dino. Thus far with Dino everyone there has personal responsibility towards the eventual win due to the fact that there are heavy demands on every role in the fight - the less people accept that and instead "blame the encounter" or expect others to carry them, the less likely the win becomes. That's why we see this weird effect where success leads to failure, and conversely where failure leads to success. When we keep failing on Dino, some people stop showing up... eventually we have smaller numbers of only the most determined players and we win. Whenever we win it gives people the sense that "something" has made the fight winnable and then the other people show up again... once enough of them have shown up, we start failing again. The hope is that during each iteration some of those "others" figure something out and become part of the winner's circle, because the part of the cycle where we're winning is much shorter than the other part; it takes quite a while for enough people to actually give up on the encounter, but not very long for them to come running back once they hear wins are happening, in both cases because they're worried about missing out. If they don't... well then it's just a waiting game until they give up, and then a mad dash to get as much victory in before they come back. It's actually a very interesting cycle.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Does that mean your greatest success rate should come as you solo it?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
You can tell 15 people relatively easily not to hit the hearts. 50 people there all yelling at each other WTF WHAT HIT ME, WHY DID I DIE, OMFG 340K THRU BLOCK, OMG WHY IT HEALS? Yeah good luck telling them all the rules.
Usually goes something like this:
Captain WTF: WTF...?
Someone: /explain
Captain WTF: WTF...?
Someone: /explain again
Captain WTF: WTF...?
Someone: /explain again in detail
Captain WTF: WTF...?
Someone: /explain again, agiain
Captain WTF: WTF...?
Someone: OMG U DUMB
Captain WTF: WTF...?
Captain WTF: WTF...?
Captain WTF: WTF...?
Captain WTF: WTF...?
Captain WTF: WTF...?
Captain WTF: WTF...?
Captain WTF: WTF...?
Captain WTF: WTF...?
Captain WTF: WTF...?
Captain WTF: WTF...?
Tanking baby, it went by so fast, I barely even made the ranking threshold for prizes, like 169K.
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then "You just need to concentrate and know what you are doing"
then 'ho hum, done it"
Gravitar, Red winter, F &I,all 3 cosmics. even Hipan 10 minute alert
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It's really not a good attitude to have toward the fights, guys. It's the sort of thing that drove me away from WoW. (Although at least CO doesn't let the team leader kick anyone from the fight. Yet.)
To make my point more plainly: It's this thing where the announcements consist of, "See, you can win this fight. All you need is a group that knows exactly what to do at every moment." The subtext, in my experience, is often, "And if you don't know before you even start what to do, someone's going to spend the next half-hour skirting the ToS in Chat so that you can understand exactly how stupid and worthless you are." Thanks, I've had enough of that over my life, I don't need that in my games too.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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But yeah realisticly folks should be more specific when trying to train folks on this content. AND KINDER.
Example, last night one of the tanks (I forget if it was BK or KBK) was telling someone who was tanking baby how to position the baby. It was well done AND POLITE!!!
EDIT: With that said if they have explained kindly, and folks repeatedly make the same mistake (or are trolling like some do sometimes on KIGA) then all bets are off.
Or not, up to you.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
EDIT: To be clear if folks are used to playing games to relax I can see where they are coming from. SOMETIMES the cosmics are far from relaxing. Again I don't mind it either way.
As an aside, funny enough I've been to cosmic fights where you don't see barely a peep in zone or the Cosmics channel while the fight is happening.
*super important edit* Your waifu is sh!t.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
However, the majority of people are reasonably nice and take the time to 'splain it over and over and over and OVER. Usually the raginess only comes after the 17th time we've failed at passing Ape's heal check because some dipwad is not reading zone or some jackwad is actually trolling.
I mean, really, most people go a long way to try to explain it plainly to new folks. Some people have standard instructional blurbs they say in zone, people have made diagrams and infographics and all sorts of helper aids and still the cosmics fail over and over and over again. So, yeah, I think it is understandable when someone gets frustrated and lashes out.
And that is the point of this thread. To make everyone aware that the Cosmics CAN be done, and not just by a perfect group of uber 733t veterans. I have seen SO many complaints that they are too hard, especially Dino and yet, just last night, I was on a group that got it done in one (not counting the numerous attempts earlier that day) and it only took 15 minutes (once everyone was done making drinks). The problem is, when people think it is too hard or that it cannot be done, they give up. The point is, don't give up, you CAN do it. But, if you spend all your time whining that it can't be done, then you'll never be able to do it.
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But yeah generally Dino isn't invincible.
*I guess I should have been drinking last night also. Seemed to make things go smoother????? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯*
Dino is not difficult. Its gone down perhaps 80 times for me - more for others. Its quirky and even the small group of dedicated leets can fail at it for one reason or another but if it were 100% success then it would just get buffed again (and rightfully so).
Kiga is by far the easiest to run (if you're not the cc-er) and as long as people can A) block and
Ape is slightly harder because of the "random" nature of some of the knocks without tells, targeting issues, heart spawning, etc. but I still wouldn't classify him as "difficult" as an individual player. Block, move, attack, watch where you stand in the same basic sequence is really all you need to do when it comes down to it. Unless you are a cc-er of course.
Dino is where I think a cosmic should be difficulty-wise. For top level content players *should* have to adapt and not just show up with whatever build and expect to win. And dino requires all 3 roles to be well planned and work together. 400 dps will kill Kiga and ape but not dino.
Dino requires more from the tanks - more than ape and Kiga because you have to constantly maneuver the beasties and you as a tank are responsible for keeping the tails and breath off everyone else while also giving your healers good LOS, keeping the distance within proper range while they slide all over, etc. Dino requires by far the most out of the healers and dps too because of positioning. And that dps check is what causes many of the fails, followed by tanking issues (because of aforementioned positioning).
The truth is dino requires more teamwork and also more of the dps player than has been required before and some people have trouble adjusting and still some others refuse to. The dps role in most other content is point and shoot (pewpew, if you will). As an example, my dps can do kiga without me looking at the screen for significant periods of time. I have eaten meals, typed on other windows, etc. during that fight as a dps and even as a healer. Very little effort required. Well, pewpew in dino is going to get you killed and if you don't know the tell for the heal yourself and are depending on someone to make the call, (and therefore blocking when you should be attacking) you aren't doing your job. Ranged dps should have no trouble seeing it -- only the melee should be needing a call and even then if you f12 your screen setup properly even the melee shouldn't always need someone telling them when to attack.
Some are of the view that any level 40 should be able to participate in any content. Sure - you can participate but don't expect to win without some planning and effort. Yeah, you might need to save up and retcon and I don't see anything wrong with that. Showing up as a dps and doing 300/s isn't the problem where a new player is concerned. Showing up and doing 300 *and refusing to make any adjustments* yet still insisting that they are helping is the problem. If I showed up to dino as a dps and someone showed me a parse of my alt doing under ~1000 dps (varies - because dino has more breaks without attacking) that alt wouldn't be at dino again until I could do better. That's part of what teamwork is.
Want to kill dino at 80% reliability? Make sure your dps toon's base damage is over 2500/s, don't stand in the tail zone and know the regen tell. If everyone did that we wouldn't be saying dino is difficult.
If the cosmics were truly difficult, we wouldn't have people waiting until the last 1/3 hp bar to jump into the fight because they are virtually assured of meeting the threshold for rewards. The people doing it know the fight well enough that they can get away with that - not condoning it just saying it happens every day.
Yes, you are going to have to pay attention and follow orders, yes sometimes a few very vocal folks are not going to be very nice. Yes, you might have to tweak with your build or adapt to a new playing style if you want to ensure the highest chance of success. Apart from people being mean(which you can just ignore btw) everything else is entirely up to you. If you want to fight cosmics you can and it is not impossible... but if that all sounds like too much work or not something you'd enjoy doing than simply don't do it..but don't sit here and complain about it because you're the only thing holding yourself back.(or do complain... whatever, that is your choice.)
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My characters
Teleiosaurus is still too much. I'd hate for the other bosses to be pumped up to Teleiosaurus level because then "knowing the fight well and bringing your best character" would not be good enough. If the tombs in Kigatilik required the same damage output as the Teleiosaurus damage check, or if Qwyjibo healed 1/6 health per tick if a heart is awake, requiring 3 dedicated heart sleepers, then tons of people would give up on cosmics and they'd become what they were before. The same dozen people logging in to farm the cosmics then logging out.
Yeah sure I know some people live for the hardest content possible, and they'd say that the hypotheticals I just wrote were "amazing suggestions!!!" but don't make them stupid hard to the point that you're narrowing the target audience. The bottom line is keeping players logged in and playing and (hopefully!) spending. The cosmics are at a good place right now, for the most part. They're fairly difficult, they promote community teamwork, and that's all great. Sure, I wish Kigatilik were a tad more interactive (I kinda hate the current "one guy sleeps the dogs" tactic and the "all DPS stand in a clump and just shoot all day" thing), but let's just say make the fight more engaging for everyone instead of "this fight should have an astronomical failure rate just like Teleiosaurus because I'm not feeling engaged".
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
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My characters
- block stuff if there isn't a dps check
- don't block stuff if there is a dps check
- don't stand where the ends of the dino will kill you
- do at least average dps
Is this really the sum of what some of you think a challenge junkie needs to be satisfied?
Trust me, it's still just because people were so used to easy content where you just run in and aoe. Those people are still slowly trickling into the new content, and the rest of us who have already adjusted just need to be patient and wait for them to adjust. That's just how open world content is; the best route is always patience, because the other routes are going nuts, and giving up.
The only thing that makes Dino special has been hit on repeatedly: it requires the dps to figure things out more than the other two fights do, and dps have always been at the bottom of the skill demand curve ( unless they deliberately made things harder for themselves, but something tells me that notion isn't too popular! ).
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.