Kind of annoyed at the anti-leecher mechanics. I got OM credit with my support, but not daily quest credit.
Not all supports are healers. Some are CCers, and some are debuffers. My DoT Telepath CC/debuff toon with AoAC only causes incidental healing (sentinel mastery + one of the telepathy DoT buffs, which is borked and only affects one player). I apparently can't score enough points for the daily, despite being there the whole time and never dying.
The fact that I bring AoAC to team up means i'm probably contributing more than any other player there (by increasing the DPS of every other character who joins a team up via reduced charge time and reduced cd), but it doesn't actually count for me, and that doesn't even count the fact I'm reducing the cosmic's damage *in half* before it ever hits damage resistance, or the incidental DoT damage and healing I contribute.
The anti-leecher mechanic needs to be significantly rethought. It discourages many support builds that contribute an awful lot to the fight.
Kind of annoyed at the anti-leecher mechanics. I got OM credit with my support, but not daily quest credit.
Well, the good news is that this has nothing to do with anti-leecher mechanics, it's actually the same problem that caused people to not get Clarence credit.
Too bad there isn't a hotfix for that aspect of the cosmics. It is super frustrating to wait, wait, wait, then play a long, glitchy fight, and not get mission/perk credit.
How well do you think we'll do bringing down the cosmics with a bunch of leechers there putting in the absolute minimum to tag the cosmics before letting the people who actually want to do the event do all the work?
The fact that I bring AoAC to team up means i'm probably contributing more than any other player there
But is standing around with your aura on really 'participating'? It's not a contribution threshold, it's a participation threshold. Picking a given passive should not automatically guarantee you rewards - after all you have 12 other power slots.
How well do you think we'll do bringing down the cosmics with a bunch of leechers there putting in the absolute minimum to tag the cosmics before letting the people who actually want to do the event do all the work?
No, the threshold is required.
No it really isn't. Over in World of Warcraftland, for two expansions straight now, world bosses (which is what these new cosmics basically are) have worked with a "as long as you tag it, you get credit" mechanic. While sure, you'd see a few leechers, for the most part, people actually participated and the bosses went down.
You have to ask yourself this: What's more important?
Punish the leechers?
-or-
Make sure everyone who participates gets credit?
When you set up your content with all these checks and balances to try and prevent meaningless things like leechers, you open the door for all of the awful problems and bugs we're dealing with right now.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
The second one of course, but that doesn't require that leechers get rewarded as well. Also, nobody gets rewards once half the people who show up decide they're just going to tag'n'wait and the Cosmic never gets beaten, which is why it's also important to make sure that people who do that do not get rewarded.
It's not an either/or situation; both are required.
The second one of course, but that doesn't require that leechers get rewarded as well. Also, nobody gets rewards once half the people who show up decide they're just going to tag'n'wait and the Cosmic never gets beaten, which is why it's also important to make sure that people who do that do not get rewarded.
It's not an either/or situation; both are required.
Agreed. In this instance the devs should actually spend the time to fix the problem properly, instead of doing a half assed fix (*cough* like another recent change *cough*) that introduces more problems to the content.
Kind of annoyed at the anti-leecher mechanics. I got OM credit with my support, but not daily quest credit.
Not all supports are healers. Some are CCers, and some are debuffers. My DoT Telepath CC/debuff toon with AoAC only causes incidental healing (sentinel mastery + one of the telepathy DoT buffs, which is borked and only affects one player). I apparently can't score enough points for the daily, despite being there the whole time and never dying. l lot to the fight.
Just a suggestion... get AOED if you can find room for it. And use that for Cosmics. This will hit the GM's with a tick of lightning every time any player buffed by your aura crits. If you're using Team Up - that will be pretty nice. You will still have a nice team buff. If your healing others on top of it.. even better. You will go from never being on the leader board, to consistently making it.
I just dumped a power I wasn't using very much that was near the end of my build.. as I didn't want to full retcon. But I liked AOED so much my Sonic Arrow + Manipulator + Wither + Sentinel Mastery user now has it as his permanent support passive.
You have to ask yourself this: What's more important?
Punish the leechers?
-or-
Make sure everyone who participates gets credit?
The participation threshold is actually pretty low; most of the bugs we're seeing aren't with the participation threshold in the first place, they're because both the perk counter and the daily mission aren't based on participation, they're based on defeat credit on a specified mob, and there's a long-standing lower limit of damage (and only damage) to get that sort of credit.
Kind of annoyed at the anti-leecher mechanics. I got OM credit with my support, but not daily quest credit.
Not all supports are healers. Some are CCers, and some are debuffers. My DoT Telepath CC/debuff toon with AoAC only causes incidental healing (sentinel mastery + one of the telepathy DoT buffs, which is borked and only affects one player). I apparently can't score enough points for the daily, despite being there the whole time and never dying. l lot to the fight.
Just a suggestion... get AOED if you can find room for it. And use that for Cosmics. This will hit the GM's with a tick of lightning every time any player buffed by your aura crits. If you're using Team Up - that will be pretty nice. You will still have a nice team buff. If your healing others on top of it.. even better. You will go from never being on the leader board, to consistently making it.
I just dumped a power I wasn't using very much that was near the end of my build.. as I didn't want to full retcon. But I liked AOED so much my Sonic Arrow + Manipulator + Wither + Sentinel Mastery user now has it as his permanent support passive.
Not an option. 1. I don't want to use AoED on this character. It's out of theme. 2. I don't have room for another power. 3. I need AoAC to make the telepathy cds playable. Literally every power on the character has a cd except for ego placate (which exists mostly to stack manipulator), and the downtime would be unbearable without AoAC. (Yes, I rotate something like 9 powers with cooldowns).
AOED only ticks twice every 6 seconds, so it's NOT every time a player buffed by the aura crits
All I know is that it's going quite frequently. Frequently enough for me to get a reward circle, place on the board, and get daily credit.
That works for me.
My poor radiant on the other hand.. he heals like crazy, tosses out his meager dps, and blocks. If I'm lucky he gets a circle. Hopefully, that will be fixed very soon!!
Not an option. 1. I don't want to use AoED on this character. It's out of theme. 2. I don't have room for another power. 3. I need AoAC to make the telepathy cds playable. Literally every power on the character has a cd except for ego placate (which exists mostly to stack manipulator), and the downtime would be unbearable without AoAC. (Yes, I rotate something like 9 powers with cooldowns).
The fact that I bring AoAC to team up means i'm probably contributing more than any other player there
But is standing around with your aura on really 'participating'? It's not a contribution threshold, it's a participation threshold. Picking a given passive should not automatically guarantee you rewards - after all you have 12 other power slots.
Yes, let's discourage people for making choices that really help out everyone else because *they* don't benefit directly. Great call.
And if you're standing in the 'killzone' (AoE radius), then yes, it is participating. Considering I'm pretty sure the AoEs are bigger than 100' radius, to affect everyone in the fight I pretty much have to stand right next to the cosmic.
But I wasn't just standing around. I made use of every single one of my powers repeatedly, except maybe the energy builder.
I think complaints about leechers are overblown. I rarely see people leech in any content. There's no reason to discourage participation by hamfisted anti-leecher mechanics when leeching is *not a problem*.
It's like voter ID laws - while it may prevent a small number of fraudulent votes, the real effect is to decrease participation in the system. That effect is orders of magnitude larger than excluding a few invalid participants.
If there must be an anti-leecher mechanic, make it actually measure something that measures participation. Have the game note number of times powers are activated (and duration of maintains/toggles) for every player (this should be as trivial as keeping track of total damage per player). Set a low bar on N power activations and/or K seconds of maintains/toggles. Even requiring N+K > 30 probably excludes anything that's truly leeching.
From my own main character, a healer/DPS/rezzer, it seems that credit for damage taken/healing/damage done do not contribute to a total score. Each seems to be a separate bucket, and even if the scores would add up to give you credit, one has to be enough to do so on its own.
The second one of course, but that doesn't require that leechers get rewarded as well. Also, nobody gets rewards once half the people who show up decide they're just going to tag'n'wait and the Cosmic never gets beaten, which is why it's also important to make sure that people who do that do not get rewarded.
It's not an either/or situation; both are required.
In all my time playing WoW under a system where world bosses allowed players to "tag and wait," having enough people actually willing to fight and bring down the bosses was pretty much never a problem. I think you and others are grossly over-exaggerating what in reality is a total non-issue.
Pretty much every time I downed Ordos in MoP and now, Supreme Lord Kazzak in the current expansion, the number of leechers was hardly comparable to the number of people either in the group, or even the number of ungrouped folks who just showed up and lent a hand. Yes, if passing participation thresholds is no longer a thing, you'd be surprised how many people will just show up and help out, grouped or not.
The participation threshold is actually pretty low; most of the bugs we're seeing aren't with the participation threshold in the first place, they're because both the perk counter and the daily mission aren't based on participation, they're based on defeat credit on a specified mob, and there's a long-standing lower limit of damage (and only damage) to get that sort of credit.
Then that's a bug that the dev team really should get to work on. Hopefully they'll be on it as quickly as they got on the instant OV target respawns when they found out about it. :P
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Then that's a bug that the dev team really should get to work on. Hopefully they'll be on it as quickly as they got on the instant OV target respawns when they found out about it. :P
Hopefully not because they knew about the respawn issue for months before the fix. Agreed that this needs to be fixed as soon as possible along with the AoRP issue.
Yes, let's discourage people for making choices that really help out everyone else because *they* don't benefit directly. Great call.
This seems like a stretch as a response to what I said. Are you being discouraged from taking AoAC by being required to actively participate rather than stand around?
In all my time playing WoW under a system where world bosses allowed players to "tag and wait," having enough people actually willing to fight and bring down the bosses was pretty much never a problem. I think you and others are grossly over-exaggerating what in reality is a total non-issue.
You would be right, if we were playing WoW. But we're not.
Then that's a bug that the dev team really should get to work on. Hopefully they'll be on it as quickly as they got on the instant OV target respawns when they found out about it. :P
They started working on it long before you even knew about it actually, so your suggestion is a bit late.
But is standing around with your aura on really 'participating'? It's not a contribution threshold, it's a participation threshold. Picking a given passive should not automatically guarantee you rewards - after all you have 12 other power slots.
I have one character that was designed specifically with this sort of passive assistance in mind. You're using words which imply that people with said characters are just going to park and do nothing but radiate buffs, which is a gross misrepresentation. These types of characters (mine is no exception) typically are giving up raw self-power and instead, sharing it with everyone else. Sure, this particular character can spam lightning storm endlessly, but it's going to be noticeably lower damage than that of a typical dps character. What she's giving to everyone in the group in terms of extra damage output, bonus energy regen, max hit points, cooldown reduction, damage reduction, passive healing, and a slew of other things is worth a lot more and is meant to be the bulk of her "contribution" to a given group.
Yet, aside from the passive healing, absolutely none of it gets counted. This kind of character is obviously very useful (I love it when someone else joins with one in any alert) but where's the incentive to bring it to these if "credit" is all about dealing damage, healing, other more quantifiable things?
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Yes, let's discourage people for making choices that really help out everyone else because *they* don't benefit directly. Great call.
This seems like a stretch as a response to what I said. Are you being discouraged from taking AoAC by being required to actively participate rather than stand around?
I'm being discouraged from playing an AoAC support build by not getting credit for the mission, even when i actively participate.
My point is that the fact I brought AoAC at all was probably the single largest damage contributor in that cosmic fight (in terms of boosting the 99 other players - yes, it was a full zone), not least because i was the only one, and that wasn't even counting anything I was actively doing.
I see we're ignoring my point that anti-leecher mechanics are a solution in search of a problem.
I have one character that was designed specifically with this sort of passive assistance in mind. You're using words which imply that people with said characters are just going to park and do nothing but radiate buffs, which is a gross misrepresentation.
No I'm responding to someone who claimed that just having that aura is participation enough, so the representation is just fine.
I'm being discouraged from playing an AoAC support build by not getting credit for the mission, even when i actively participate.
I used Seraphim for a few fights, didn't change my credit situation at all. It doesn't matter what passive you have slotted, the issue is that people who only heal, or in some cases just soak damage while tanking, aren't getting mission credit - a BUG which already has a fix in the works. Talking about this like you are purposely being left out due to design is wildly off point.
If you don't think there are leechers in CO, then you haven't been paying attention. Some of them do it so much that they're infamous for it, and people have complained quite a lot about it. You may not think those player's complaints are valuable, but some of us do.
In all my time playing WoW under a system where world bosses allowed players to "tag and wait," having enough people actually willing to fight and bring down the bosses was pretty much never a problem. I think you and others are grossly over-exaggerating what in reality is a total non-issue.
You would be right, if we were playing WoW. But we're not.
Of course it isn't, but the principle applies here as well since these cosmics are exactly the same thing as WoW's world bosses--big monsters meant to be brought down by a large group or even several large groups. Even Ruhkmar, a notoriously nasty one when it was current, as downed regularly--all in spite of the supposed "problem" of leechers who might hit it, then run away and wait.
Why not just call it what it really is--the idea that someone else will benefit from your "hard work" (lol it's a video game) by doing basically nothing utterly infuriates you.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Then that's a bug that the dev team really should get to work on. Hopefully they'll be on it as quickly as they got on the instant OV target respawns when they found out about it. :P
Pretty sure the fix has already been coded, it's fairly straightforward (you basically move the perk/daily completion requirement to an invisible token that would appear as part of your rewards. Which would likely delay credit until you collected your rewards, but it's going to be rare for that to matter).
Except that WoW has a huge population, meaning that the leechers are largely outnumbered. When Canada and MI get capped to 50 players, having a significant number of leechers there can be a big issue.
Why not just call it what it really is--the idea that someone else will benefit from your "hard work" (lol it's a video game) by doing basically nothing utterly infuriates you.
Nah, like I've stated my concern is that if you reward leechers then some active participants will become leechers, and some new leechers will show up and end up taking up slots that could be filled with active participants, meaning we have even less people actively trying to help take down the Cosmic, which lessens our chances of success.
The thing you're talking about is more than likely something you imagined up due to your resentment towards folks who perform much better than you do, but that's just a guess on my part.
Anti-Leech mechanics are a problem. If everyone just gets their one hit in and goes to eat a taco, it makes it more difficult for everyone that's actually trying to complete the thing, because they're taking up space in the zone not doing anything. People are forced to participate, as it should be.
I don't think it's the absolute best solution, and I don't know what that solution is, but this was needed.
Except that WoW has a huge population, meaning that the leechers are largely outnumbered. When Canada and MI get capped to 50 players, having a significant number of leechers there can be a big issue.
If 50 players is the cap for Canada or MI, then just increase the cap. Problem solving. It's not like either place is in any danger of being overrun because, aside from these new cosmics, hardly anyone even goes to those places because of exp alerts.
Anyway, "leechers" isn't some fixed number. In wow, you'd think there'd be more leechers since it has a larger overall population. But it doesn't.
Take a look at OVs in the ren center. These currently operate under the system where all you have to do is tag one to get credit and GTs as they die. Unless their time is running out and they choose to turret dive, finding enough players willing to just jump in and burn them down is rarely a problem. Edit: Well, that's how it used to be anyway.
Nah, like I've stated my concern is that if you reward leechers then some active participants will become leechers, and some new leechers will show up and end up taking up slots that could be filled with active participants, meaning we have even less people actively trying to help take down the Cosmic, which lessens our chances of success.
There you go again, concerned with leechers in a way that blinds you from seeing the other side of it: Without paticipation thresholds to jump through, or credit caps, or whatever other nonsense is bogging these down, you'll see a lot more willing to just show up and jump in. I know I'd jump in if I knew I could get credit for showing up late, but with all the current crap in place, I'd just not bother.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
UPDATE (on my frustration): Playing with graphics at rock bottom cut down on many issues fighting Cosmics, like lag, non-synced attacks/FX, and so forth. Looks terrible, though.
The next iteration will limit MI and Canada to only 50 heroes, so this may cut down on some issues, too.
the zone cap for MI and Canada is 100, not 50. Edit: Oh, changed on PTS. I wonder how many cosmics will be beatable with only 50 players... Also, with zones hitting zone cap at 100 for cosmics on sunday, there's going to be a lot of stupid zone filling just to actually get to play. Should be great fun for everyone... :rolleyes:
Also, how many leechers are there, really? I've seen maybe one or two, ever. Most players are not leechers, and a couple infamous ones does not make it a real problem.
Now, if 30% of the game population is a leecher, that's a problem. But 5%? 1%? Not really a problem. Do we have any actual data on the frequency of leeching? Cause my perception is that there's so little of it (<<1%) that it's completely ignorable.
the zone cap for MI and Canada is 100, not 50. Edit: Oh, changed on PTS. I wonder how many cosmics will be beatable with only 50 players... Also, with zones hitting zone cap at 100 for cosmics on sunday, there's going to be a lot of stupid zone filling just to actually get to play. Should be great fun for everyone... :rolleyes:
Also, how many leechers are there, really? I've seen maybe one or two, ever. Most players are not leechers, and a couple infamous ones does not make it a real problem.
Now, if 30% of the game population is a leecher, that's a problem. But 5%? 1%? Not really a problem. Do we have any actual data on the frequency of leeching? Cause my perception is that there's so little of it (<<1%) that it's completely ignorable.
The Voter ID law comparison is pretty apt.</p>
There will be plenty of leeches if they don't have that performance cutoff. The fights can often last a real long time, and some people will just quit and stand there and wait for everyone else to do it. People were bragging about just hitting Clarence once and then getting rare rewards at the end. That's not helpful for anyone.
Cosmics should be beatable with 30 players, if those players know what they're doing. On PTS we had around that many. Less people in the fight will hopefully also mean less people to screw it up. You know how hard it is to get people to listen to a plan when there's 100 people.
Seriously. This was a ..hey i like the new content thread.
I understood some people didn't there are issues. I'm also aware that some of the mechanics are wonky. But overall .. it's a pretty valiant effort on the dev teams part. And once the healer credit issue is addressed..hooray.
I don't care if some of you have beefs with each other ... take it some where else. Can't we have one thread that doesn't turn into a cat fight? Sweet baby jeebus in the manger.. please.. please. One thread that doesn't devolve into snippy remarks, hurt feelings, and griping.
I never get awarded doing the most vital portions of each Cosmic, but that's okay! I still have fun organizing and playing with up to 100 at once, best thing i've ever gone through in gamin'~
I got rewards for healing at that Kigatilik fight on Templar! I'd never ever healed anything other than alerts, so the fact that I placed well enough on my first time was pretty rad. Sadly, I didn't meet the cutoff on Qwyjibo. I spent most of the time trying to keep myself alive. OH NO LAVA, BUBBLE HEAL HEAL HEAL! Still it was much funs, I wanna do some more runs as heals. HUGE dynamics shift from just punching hoof n stuff.
I think the devs did a good job on this but I don't thank devs as they are always making a product. What I will do is buy some fluff out the game store instead.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Even though I've been a little salty (oooo so much salt can you taste it?) about healing and tanks on Cosmics -- they are still fun. I sort of think of it like sports. You may see the players cursing and getting miffed during the game, but in the end they are doing something they enjoy!
It will get better as we all get more experienced.
Some were doing it because they enjoyed it, others were doing it because of the carrot (recog tokens/Q) and the mission. They're the ones who will eventually start ignoring this, much like people do with the OV stuff, especially once they've gotten whatever reward they are after.
The devs have really done a great job in taking what was essentially abandoned content and turning it into an epic experience.
^This. The cosmic revamp IMHO hits the sweet spot between "headache MMO mechanics" and "Fun DPS." Players get a choice if they want to be part of the holy trinity tank-healer groups or just part of the horde of DPS.
Generally, the things that are wonky with the cosmics are what's wonky with CO in general: the tells are hard to see if your computer is running slow and lowering the video quality makes the tells even harder to see since they just blur instead of going solid. The ground is uneven in many places so the tells sometimes don't get painted on the ground. Since the update on 5/12 a lot of the "OMG what killed me?" trouble has been addressed. I think the ice prisons for kiga could stand out better (maybe taller) and the bite from the dogs could have some sort of bite mark on the player that gets super obvious when the dogs are powered up too much.
Healers should probably get more credit per point healed than DPS... but I think healers need to realize that sitting on the sidelines and running in to rez someone (and usually getting one-shoted in the process) is probably never going to earn them enough credit.
It really great to see players actually playing this game again at 10 PM Pacific time. The devs deserve a good pat on the back.
The Cosmics are really fun. I've been asking for Giant Monsters to hunt since the game opened and finally the Devs granted my with.
There are two problems, one created by the devs, the other by the players. The first is the 50 person limit. Finally we have content that people REALLY want to play, but we can't get to it. It's like a pretty girl who blows you a kiss, then runs inside and locks the door.
The second is the a-hole players who think God died and left them in charge. The ones who decided that screaming at everyone in all caps is the way to organize the chaos. I don't mean the awesome ones like VEXX, who is a shining example for all, uses words like please and thank you and can quickly organize an assault without resorting to all-caps. I mean the certain individuals who show up at nearly every attempt and immediately start screaming at everyone and calling names. I am going to start reporting those people as griefers. They ruin the fun for everyone and that is not acceptable.
If you post in all-caps a lot during the Cosmics, you are the ones I am talking about. Cut it out, quit being a jerk. Also, it doesn't help. I've seen more wipes with you screaming than with someone nice and polite in charge. You are not helping and you are just being a jerk, so you might as well cut it out.
Speaking of griefers, the combat griefers are also a problem, though not as often. Really, they seem to be rare, but they can send a combat, especially Dino, into a tailspin with just a little effort. I report those as well and I encourage everyone else to do so, as well.
Anyway, I'd like to say great job to the devs for making some really fun monsters. I look forward to more coming along in the future.
- - - - -
SIGNATURE:
Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
The second is the a-hole players who think God died and left them in charge. The ones who decided that screaming at everyone in all caps is the way to organize the chaos.
Yeah those folks are funny. Luckily those kind of ragers appear to represent a very very tiny part of the population.
Comments
Teleiosaurus deals 88692 (58223) Particle Damage to you with Radiation Breath.
I was not affected by any AoRP, either. Blocking, took more than the standard damage.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Not all supports are healers. Some are CCers, and some are debuffers. My DoT Telepath CC/debuff toon with AoAC only causes incidental healing (sentinel mastery + one of the telepathy DoT buffs, which is borked and only affects one player). I apparently can't score enough points for the daily, despite being there the whole time and never dying.
The fact that I bring AoAC to team up means i'm probably contributing more than any other player there (by increasing the DPS of every other character who joins a team up via reduced charge time and reduced cd), but it doesn't actually count for me, and that doesn't even count the fact I'm reducing the cosmic's damage *in half* before it ever hits damage resistance, or the incidental DoT damage and healing I contribute.
The anti-leecher mechanic needs to be significantly rethought. It discourages many support builds that contribute an awful lot to the fight.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
No, the threshold is required.
But is standing around with your aura on really 'participating'? It's not a contribution threshold, it's a participation threshold. Picking a given passive should not automatically guarantee you rewards - after all you have 12 other power slots.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
You have to ask yourself this: What's more important?
Punish the leechers?
-or-
Make sure everyone who participates gets credit?
When you set up your content with all these checks and balances to try and prevent meaningless things like leechers, you open the door for all of the awful problems and bugs we're dealing with right now.
It's not an either/or situation; both are required.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I just dumped a power I wasn't using very much that was near the end of my build.. as I didn't want to full retcon. But I liked AOED so much my Sonic Arrow + Manipulator + Wither + Sentinel Mastery user now has it as his permanent support passive.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Actually it's twice per entity every 6 seconds, not only twice per 6 seconds.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
1. I don't want to use AoED on this character. It's out of theme.
2. I don't have room for another power.
3. I need AoAC to make the telepathy cds playable. Literally every power on the character has a cd except for ego placate (which exists mostly to stack manipulator), and the downtime would be unbearable without AoAC. (Yes, I rotate something like 9 powers with cooldowns).
That works for me.
My poor radiant on the other hand.. he heals like crazy, tosses out his meager dps, and blocks. If I'm lucky he gets a circle. Hopefully, that will be fixed very soon!!
And if you're standing in the 'killzone' (AoE radius), then yes, it is participating. Considering I'm pretty sure the AoEs are bigger than 100' radius, to affect everyone in the fight I pretty much have to stand right next to the cosmic.
But I wasn't just standing around. I made use of every single one of my powers repeatedly, except maybe the energy builder.
I think complaints about leechers are overblown. I rarely see people leech in any content. There's no reason to discourage participation by hamfisted anti-leecher mechanics when leeching is *not a problem*.
It's like voter ID laws - while it may prevent a small number of fraudulent votes, the real effect is to decrease participation in the system. That effect is orders of magnitude larger than excluding a few invalid participants.
If there must be an anti-leecher mechanic, make it actually measure something that measures participation. Have the game note number of times powers are activated (and duration of maintains/toggles) for every player (this should be as trivial as keeping track of total damage per player). Set a low bar on N power activations and/or K seconds of maintains/toggles. Even requiring N+K > 30 probably excludes anything that's truly leeching.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Pretty much every time I downed Ordos in MoP and now, Supreme Lord Kazzak in the current expansion, the number of leechers was hardly comparable to the number of people either in the group, or even the number of ungrouped folks who just showed up and lent a hand. Yes, if passing participation thresholds is no longer a thing, you'd be surprised how many people will just show up and help out, grouped or not. Then that's a bug that the dev team really should get to work on. Hopefully they'll be on it as quickly as they got on the instant OV target respawns when they found out about it. :P
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They started working on it long before you even knew about it actually, so your suggestion is a bit late.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Yet, aside from the passive healing, absolutely none of it gets counted. This kind of character is obviously very useful (I love it when someone else joins with one in any alert) but where's the incentive to bring it to these if "credit" is all about dealing damage, healing, other more quantifiable things?
My point is that the fact I brought AoAC at all was probably the single largest damage contributor in that cosmic fight (in terms of boosting the 99 other players - yes, it was a full zone), not least because i was the only one, and that wasn't even counting anything I was actively doing.
I see we're ignoring my point that anti-leecher mechanics are a solution in search of a problem.
If you don't think there are leechers in CO, then you haven't been paying attention. Some of them do it so much that they're infamous for it, and people have complained quite a lot about it. You may not think those player's complaints are valuable, but some of us do.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Why not just call it what it really is--the idea that someone else will benefit from your "hard work" (lol it's a video game) by doing basically nothing utterly infuriates you.
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Block timing explained
Nah, like I've stated my concern is that if you reward leechers then some active participants will become leechers, and some new leechers will show up and end up taking up slots that could be filled with active participants, meaning we have even less people actively trying to help take down the Cosmic, which lessens our chances of success.
The thing you're talking about is more than likely something you imagined up due to your resentment towards folks who perform much better than you do, but that's just a guess on my part.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I don't think it's the absolute best solution, and I don't know what that solution is, but this was needed.
Anyway, "leechers" isn't some fixed number. In wow, you'd think there'd be more leechers since it has a larger overall population. But it doesn't.
Take a look at OVs in the ren center. These currently operate under the system where all you have to do is tag one to get credit and GTs as they die. Unless their time is running out and they choose to turret dive, finding enough players willing to just jump in and burn them down is rarely a problem. Edit: Well, that's how it used to be anyway. There you go again, concerned with leechers in a way that blinds you from seeing the other side of it: Without paticipation thresholds to jump through, or credit caps, or whatever other nonsense is bogging these down, you'll see a lot more willing to just show up and jump in. I know I'd jump in if I knew I could get credit for showing up late, but with all the current crap in place, I'd just not bother.
The next iteration will limit MI and Canada to only 50 heroes, so this may cut down on some issues, too.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Also, how many leechers are there, really? I've seen maybe one or two, ever. Most players are not leechers, and a couple infamous ones does not make it a real problem.
Now, if 30% of the game population is a leecher, that's a problem. But 5%? 1%? Not really a problem. Do we have any actual data on the frequency of leeching? Cause my perception is that there's so little of it (<<1%) that it's completely ignorable.
The Voter ID law comparison is pretty apt.
Cosmics should be beatable with 30 players, if those players know what they're doing. On PTS we had around that many. Less people in the fight will hopefully also mean less people to screw it up. You know how hard it is to get people to listen to a plan when there's 100 people.
KNOCK IT OFF!!!
Seriously. This was a ..hey i like the new content thread.
I understood some people didn't there are issues. I'm also aware that some of the mechanics are wonky. But overall .. it's a pretty valiant effort on the dev teams part. And once the healer credit issue is addressed..hooray.
I don't care if some of you have beefs with each other ... take it some where else. Can't we have one thread that doesn't turn into a cat fight? Sweet baby jeebus in the manger.. please.. please. One thread that doesn't devolve into snippy remarks, hurt feelings, and griping.
Just one.. ..really just one.
Now happy cat is grumpy cat..
You may need this.
I still have fun organizing and playing with up to 100 at once, best thing i've ever gone through in gamin'~
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
It will get better as we all get more experienced.
^This. The cosmic revamp IMHO hits the sweet spot between "headache MMO mechanics" and "Fun DPS." Players get a choice if they want to be part of the holy trinity tank-healer groups or just part of the horde of DPS.
Generally, the things that are wonky with the cosmics are what's wonky with CO in general: the tells are hard to see if your computer is running slow and lowering the video quality makes the tells even harder to see since they just blur instead of going solid. The ground is uneven in many places so the tells sometimes don't get painted on the ground. Since the update on 5/12 a lot of the "OMG what killed me?" trouble has been addressed. I think the ice prisons for kiga could stand out better (maybe taller) and the bite from the dogs could have some sort of bite mark on the player that gets super obvious when the dogs are powered up too much.
Healers should probably get more credit per point healed than DPS... but I think healers need to realize that sitting on the sidelines and running in to rez someone (and usually getting one-shoted in the process) is probably never going to earn them enough credit.
It really great to see players actually playing this game again at 10 PM Pacific time. The devs deserve a good pat on the back.
There are two problems, one created by the devs, the other by the players. The first is the 50 person limit. Finally we have content that people REALLY want to play, but we can't get to it. It's like a pretty girl who blows you a kiss, then runs inside and locks the door.
The second is the a-hole players who think God died and left them in charge. The ones who decided that screaming at everyone in all caps is the way to organize the chaos. I don't mean the awesome ones like VEXX, who is a shining example for all, uses words like please and thank you and can quickly organize an assault without resorting to all-caps. I mean the certain individuals who show up at nearly every attempt and immediately start screaming at everyone and calling names. I am going to start reporting those people as griefers. They ruin the fun for everyone and that is not acceptable.
If you post in all-caps a lot during the Cosmics, you are the ones I am talking about. Cut it out, quit being a jerk. Also, it doesn't help. I've seen more wipes with you screaming than with someone nice and polite in charge. You are not helping and you are just being a jerk, so you might as well cut it out.
Speaking of griefers, the combat griefers are also a problem, though not as often. Really, they seem to be rare, but they can send a combat, especially Dino, into a tailspin with just a little effort. I report those as well and I encourage everyone else to do so, as well.
Anyway, I'd like to say great job to the devs for making some really fun monsters. I look forward to more coming along in the future.
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Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.