What is the reason for the instane prices?.

diggot

Heroic Gear.. 150 SCR per item. It takes weeks to gain enough SCR to buy one. People say "don't bother with heroics, get justice". But if Heroic gear is so "don't bother", then why do they take weeks to afford?.

SCR costume pieces.. 975 SCR !!. Who in the world has that amount of SCR to throw around on a single costume piece, it would take months to get that... for something that doesn't even improve your hero - its a costume piece.

I just want to know the reasoning behind these prices. And don't give us the usual BS-replies by saying "currency managing".

People were fine with the somewhat easily obtainable heroic gear, you spend a few days on 2-3 characters and you had a full set of gear that actually improved your champion somewhat... and you didn't have to check into a mental institution after the grind.

Today is my last day as a gold-sub, its been canceled due to the reasons that the game literally shits on the players efforts to obtain things, but i'm trying to find a reason TO re-sub.. i'm trying to make the game change for the better and make the devs see reasoning.

rtma

Time Sink, Grind Bait, Player Retention,

Personally I like they give more options like Devices and unlocks that doesn't require sheer Luck of chance to get a drop, I've only managed to get a handful of unlocks during my 4 years here now, so yeah, as for Heroics, that's because they were too easy to get, You can still get them, very casual like by playing UNITY and Adventure Packs, Dailies even, no rush, go at your own pace.

flyingfinn

It's not like this game requieres bestest of the bestest Gear.

illumisar

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell

riverocean

Merc Gear is how I usually go for alts anyways.. it's cheap & plentiful on the exchange. For some weird reason it has a bad rep, but when you compare it side-by-side with Heroics...the difference in stats is minimal.

Grinding for a full set of Heroics is doable in two-weeks. I know because I did it. It's also really, really boring. The key is rampages - do rampages until your eyes bleed. If it happens to be a Sky Command or Gravitar week, then you are in luck.

But then again, if you're going to grind like that, then you might as well just go for Jusitce Gear. It's a little more RNG based --- but doable.

diggot

warehouseagent said:

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell

Say what you want about me, i don't really care, its your opinion. I'm not angry, but i DO take offense when treated
disrespectfully and when asking a simple question about something that doens't make sense.. and getting ignored.

I've asked in mail, ingame petition and not ONE reply on why they made all these stupid non-sense changes to the game, except for the sole purpose of making it less appealing to new players.
There was NO reason to increase the prices on Heroic gear, and there is no reason for a simple cosmetic to cost almost a 1000SCR.
And we've yet to receive an explanation to why they removed the loot from the cosmic worldbosses. These are valid questions and i see no reason to why they shouldn't be answered. How do you think the world of gaming would look if all developers and publishers constantly made decisions that went against the players logical reasoning, and never cared to explain why..

I think there would be alot of developers and publishers going out of business.

If this game isn't about gear and developing your characters potential in pve, then why even bother having the gear so hard to attain when it doens't really matter?. If the game is all about creating new characters and fooling around with builds, then why doesn't our accounts have a combined currencypool ?.

Have you ever seen an explanation to the increase in Heroic cost?, or why they removed Cosmic boss loot?.
I've played ALOT of game in my life, and Champions Online is the ONLY game that punishes a player for their efforts,
and its the only game where it requires a grind that leaves you ready for the mental crash for some item that isn't really that much of an upgrade to your character..

There is not a single item in the game where the juice is worth the squeeze.. there are no carrots. If the game isn't suppose to be item-oriented, then why make them so much harder to obtain... there's no logic.

The only reason i can think of, is MONEY.... they're making the game less playerfriendly, to make money.

jonsills

diggot said:

How do you think the world of gaming would look if all developers and publishers constantly made decisions that went against the players logical reasoning, and never cared to explain why..

I think they'd become the largest game publisher in the world, and at their peak have somewhere north of 13 million subscribers. Because that pretty well describes my WoW experience.

I've played ALOT of game in my life, and Champions Online is the ONLY game that punishes a player for their efforts,
and its the only game where it requires a grind that leaves you ready for the mental crash for some item that isn't really that much of an upgrade to your character..

Again, you haven't played WoW, have you? Grind until you approach poopsocking levels, finally get the Legendary Sword of Whatever that is the most powerful item anyone's ever heard of - then, three months later, when the new season arrives, do it all over again.

I can only conclude that the "ALOT of games" you mention are mostly board games. (Except obviously not Monopoly...)

illumisar

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell

thegrandnagus1

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell

thegrandnagus1

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell

nepht

The OP is right though. Getting heroic gear was fine the way it was. If Cryptic think upping the SCR cost is going to make people play more they are sadly mistaken. If anything it will make them play less.

xacchaeus

have not touched unity missions since the change...

diggot

jonsills said:

Again, you haven't played WoW, have you? Grind until you approach poopsocking levels, finally get the Legendary Sword of Whatever that is the most powerful item anyone's ever heard of - then, three months later, when the new season arrives, do it all over again.

I can only conclude that the "ALOT of games" you mention are mostly board games. (Except obviously not Monopoly...)

I played WoW from the release until a few months before WotL, and as i recall it, you would go into a dungeon or raid
and actually get one or more items, or you luck-out, but atleast the game didn't punish you for trying repeatedly... not until MC was released did they have a dungeon with a 7day lockout.
But UBRS was the endgame back then and there was no limit to have many times per day you could run it, as long as you had the time and will to farm it for the items you needed... and they dropped, and they increased your characters effectiveness.

Rampage... does the complete opposite. It has a minute chance to drop the component, but for every try, you get less chance to have it drop because it diminishes... hence it punishes the players efforts in obtaining the items... and thats BAD. A game is suppose to encourage players to farm... not make them want to quit.

In WoW Vanilla... Worldbosses dropped good stuff, bad stuff. In Champions Online the cosmic worldbosses dropped good stuff or bad stuff - until they totally removed the loot table and thus removing the reason to kill them at all.
OR have you seen any party of raid forming up lately to kill Grond in Desert or Qwyjibo on Monster Island for loot lately?. Because before they removed the loot, i would see a party up everytime they respawned... eager to kill for that loot - yet they removed it... and i never saw an explanation or logical reason to why.


When it all comes down to the cookie, you don't make the game chase players away by taking the item-grind to insane levels when they are already perfect, not unless you want to chase away all the "casual play for fun" players..
I don't consider myself casual, i'm willing to put in EFFORT to gain upgrades or items.. i played Rift over 1600 hours the first year i played it, grinded and farmed my way up to main dps and main tank for the guild and i was server and guild-first to 60, and all that because it was worth it.. Rift had a carrot, Rift had rewards and didn't discourage effort...

Champions Online on the other hand, where ever i turn, i get told in game that there is no effective grind, it doesn't matter how much effort you put into the game... you are TIME LOCKED because there is only so much you are allowed per day.
Even Adventures are locked to max 4 per day, and their rewards are CRAP... a handful of questionite and some items for gold.

They need to revert the cost-changes to Heroic gear. Like other players have said, it was fine as it was, and they need to remove the diminishing return on Rampages that is punishing players efforts in gearing up.
And for god's sake.... 975 SCR for a cosmetic items... what were they smoking when they set that price... LSD?.

nacito

"Heroics are used to be end game gear, so, it will need to be hard to get them"
paraphrasing kaiserin

beezeeze

I don't think you are ever going to get a satisfying answer to your questions no matter how strongly your grievances are worded.

nepht

naciiito said:

"Heroics are used to be end game gear, so, it will need to be hard to get them"
paraphrasing kaiserin

Took long enough to get them in the first place. You just didn't walk up to the vendor and get free Heroic gear. Extending the grind does not make the experience more enjoyable.

Thats the point of video games they are meant to be enjoyable.

beezeeze

"Because...stuff and reasons."

and thus some of us simply accepted it and some of us did not and there was much wailing and gnashing.

diggot

naciiito said:

"Heroics are used to be end game gear, so, it will need to be hard to get them"
paraphrasing kaiserin

Heroics aren't Endgame anymore. Justice, Legion and Heirloom are endgame now and hard enough to get. No reason for Heroics to get pushed up to insane grind as well. The amount of effort needed should reflect the quality of the items.

Pure logic.

So when people are saying that its easier to get Justice then Heroic gear, its illogical to keep Heroic at these prices.

crypticbuxom

Heroic gear is a STANDARD set for level 40. Its not end game. Clearly whoever said it was doesn't know what they are talking about.

Legion is paid for end game gear with more customization than heroics. Justice and Onslaught is endgame.

Lets do some math. Look at dailies for Onslaught gear compared Silver Rec ones:

1. Onslaught is defeating one OV and doing one OV run yourself for about 30 minutes a day in two missions plus the 5 days. You can get a full set of the Onslaught gear in a month.
2. Heroic gear needs 150 SCR each for a total of 450. Do the ABP alert and custom alert for 10 Silver Rec total which can take up to an hour depending on low game population. That's about 45 days.

Justice can be farmed in less than a week. So if anyone says that Silver Rec and Heroic needs to be this hard to get, you tell them they are a moron and berate them to no end. Especially if they are a dev.​​

morigosa

I suspect they meant for Mercenary gear to be the standard set for level 40. Unfortunately, they set the Q price for it too high, which means the only sane source for Mercenary gear is buying it from people who opened lockboxes looking for something else.

On the plus side, merc gear isn't vendor trash anymore! On the minus side, they did that by making it utterly impractical to buy either merc or heroic gear via in-game currency.

Sane prices would be no more than maybe 20k Q for a merc gear piece, and 60 SCR for heroic. At their current prices... well, I'm not buying this stuff anymore; if I actually had 150k Q or 450 SCR on hand... nope, there are better things to spend it on than a set of bottom rung gear that's only marginally better than what you can find while leveling.

roughbearmattach

crypticbuxom said:

Justice can be farmed in less than a week. So if anyone says that Silver Rec and Heroic needs to be this hard to get, you tell them they are a moron and berate them to no end. Especially if they are a dev.​​

Isn't the minimum time is 8 days: last day of one rampage, six days for the middle two, one day for the fourth one.
And that is assuming your farming goes well. Most folks need two or more rotations of rampages to get a full set.


My main gripe is actually the recognition prices for costume parts and travel powers. Just so, so much grinding for just one unlock.
Meh.

nacito

I think Heroic is supposed to be end game gear because, well you dont actually need more than heroic for most of the content (excluding TA)
I think thats the logic behind it

pantagruel01

naciiito said:

I think Heroic is supposed to be end game gear because, well you dont actually need more than heroic for most of the content (excluding TA)

Urr... not excluding TA. You could run TA in Armadillo, it would just be kinda slow.

diggot

naciiito said:

I think Heroic is supposed to be end game gear because, well you dont actually need more than heroic for most of the content (excluding TA)
I think thats the logic behind it

Thats poor logic for 2 reasons. 1) It means the gear hasn't improved since Heroics was implemented in the game and the content hasn't improved to require better gear.
2) If Heroics are the endgame, then there is no reason for Justice, Onslaught or Legion to even have stats OR be in the game if they aren't better.. because endgame is always the best. And if Heroics aren't the best, its not considered endgame.

And when it takes longer to get Heroics then Justice and Mercenary - i would love to see the reasoning behind that.

aesica

naciiito said:

"Heroics are used to be end game gear, so, it will need to be hard to get them"
paraphrasing kaiserin

The sad part about this is that MMO development 101 completely contradicts this misguided philosophy. Generally, you want "yesterday's endgame gear" to be more readily available so that "today's endgame content" is more accessible. Let's say that the Telios trend continues, and every so often, they release new incrementally-harder content with incrementally-better rewards. Eventually, there will reach a point where even skilled players won't be able to participate without sufficient gear. The result is that players will be stuck grinding older content in order to gear up for more older content several times over before they're deemed ready for the current stuff. That's toxic to altoholics because it means leaving characters behind. It's toxic to the endgame players because it means having a smaller talent pool to recruit party members from. Finally, it's toxic in general because it turns more casual players off to the new content once they see just how much older crap and grinding they'll need to slog through before they can catch up.

xcelsior41

aesica said:

naciiito said:

"Heroics are used to be end game gear, so, it will need to be hard to get them"
paraphrasing kaiserin

The sad part about this is that MMO development 101 completely contradicts this misguided philosophy. Generally, you want "yesterday's endgame gear" to be more readily available so that "today's endgame content" is more accessible. Let's say that the Telios trend continues, and every so often, they release new incrementally-harder content with incrementally-better rewards. Eventually, there will reach a point where even skilled players won't be able to participate without sufficient gear. The result is that players will be stuck grinding older content in order to gear up for more older content several times over before they're deemed ready for the current stuff. That's toxic to altoholics because it means leaving characters behind. It's toxic to the endgame players because it means having a smaller talent pool to recruit party members from. Finally, it's toxic in general because it turns more casual players off to the new content once they see just how much older crap and grinding they'll need to slog through before they can catch up.

^
This.

diggot

aesica said:

naciiito said:

"Heroics are used to be end game gear, so, it will need to be hard to get them"
paraphrasing kaiserin

The sad part about this is that MMO development 101 completely contradicts this misguided philosophy. Generally, you want "yesterday's endgame gear" to be more readily available so that "today's endgame content" is more accessible. Let's say that the Telios trend continues, and every so often, they release new incrementally-harder content with incrementally-better rewards. Eventually, there will reach a point where even skilled players won't be able to participate without sufficient gear. The result is that players will be stuck grinding older content in order to gear up for more older content several times over before they're deemed ready for the current stuff. That's toxic to altoholics because it means leaving characters behind. It's toxic to the endgame players because it means having a smaller talent pool to recruit party members from. Finally, it's toxic in general because it turns more casual players off to the new content once they see just how much older crap and grinding they'll need to slog through before they can catch up.

I can agree to this to some extent. But at the same time, you need to have both content and gear that is for dedicated players.
Alot of players, me including, are totally fine with the term "The juice is worth the squeeze". I don't want to spend weeks grinding for an item that is barely any upgrade contentwise.
Currently Telios is the endgame content and i am perfectly fine with if i can't run it on my alts because they aren't in full Justice,
but then it shouldn't take me 45 days to get full Heroic, ESPECIALLY NOT when it takes 2 weeks to get full Justice.
I'm sure even you can see the error in that.

And ontop of this, the diminishing return on Rampage loot = punishing player efforts , there is no other way to explain it.
If F&I pops one day, a player should be able to farm it until he has the 6 components required for the 3 pieces... simple as that,
he/she should not have to either resort to 6 alts and lady luck ... EFFORT should be the decisive factor.

ninjapiff

Heroic Gear is "Good-Tier" level 40 gear. It's not quite as good as Legion gear can be (depends on how good the mods you put in either, really), and it generally falls short of Justice Gear as well. However, the reason it was used so much was because it was relatively easy to get by farming SCR for a couple of days through UNITY missions. The problem is, this encouraged doing only Alerts until you hit level 40, then doing UNITY missions to replace the crappy gear you've had since level 10. People who only grind Alerts to level up won't be getting gear from Mission Rewards and the like, and generally end up falling short. With the change to SCR, if Heroic Gear stayed the same price, Heroic Gear would totally flood the market and upend the economy.

Now, on the "conspiracy theory" side of things.

An addition that I find is often overlooked is adding Heroic Gear to the Hero Games Acclaim vendor. While constructed PvP is pretty dead in Champions Online (right now), the devs decided to add Heroic Gear to this store. Why, you might ask? Well, look at all of the sweeping fixes, nerfs, buffs and changes made to many of the "unbalanced" powers and builds in the game. It appears that the devs are looking to make a more equal PvP experience (against all odds). While this process would take some time and trial-and-error, I find it likely that there will eventually be some sort of "PvP Renaissance" which recent developments support. All of these seemingly odd events point towards this, and making Heroic Gear attainable through different means could be a sign of supporting differing playstyles; whether you want to grind Alerts, or do Missions, or even do Constructed PvP, you have that choice.

xcelsior41

ninjapiff said:

Heroic Gear is "Good-Tier" level 40 gear. It's not quite as good as Legion gear can be (depends on how good the mods you put in either, really), and it generally falls short of Justice Gear as well. However, the reason it was used so much was because it was relatively easy to get by farming SCR for a couple of days through UNITY missions. The problem is, this encouraged doing only Alerts until you hit level 40, then doing UNITY missions to replace the crappy gear you've had since level 10. People who only grind Alerts to level up won't be getting gear from Mission Rewards and the like, and generally end up falling short. With the change to SCR, if Heroic Gear stayed the same price, Heroic Gear would totally flood the market and upend the economy.

Now, on the "conspiracy theory" side of things.

An addition that I find is often overlooked is adding Heroic Gear to the Hero Games Acclaim vendor. While constructed PvP is pretty dead in Champions Online (right now), the devs decided to add Heroic Gear to this store. Why, you might ask? Well, look at all of the sweeping fixes, nerfs, buffs and changes made to many of the "unbalanced" powers and builds in the game. It appears that the devs are looking to make a more equal PvP experience (against all odds). While this process would take some time and trial-and-error, I find it likely that there will eventually be some sort of "PvP Renaissance" which recent developments support. All of these seemingly odd events point towards this, and making Heroic Gear attainable through different means could be a sign of supporting differing playstyles; whether you want to grind Alerts, or do Missions, or even do Constructed PvP, you have that choice.

Valid point economically, but also look at it like this: Why not just fix the grinding issue with alerts? I mean, people are still grinding alerts to 40, leveling to 40 still has you in mostly greens/blues(till 39-ish where you can get purp secondaries), and all that's come of it? A more grindy experience(no SCR before 40 as well).

To play into that conspiracy-ish :P.

If this game is being balanced to PvP?. That's bad. God awful bad. Oh, those pve instances will be there but boy will those powers your using cause you to slog through em!. Why? Well, generally PvP is about one-upping the next guy right? Okay, so you find the(or so you think) combo for PvP. Others notice and will either:

• Whine to the devs about that combo being broken(usually making up some absurd BS story about how it's used way to much for PvE(when really, its' a PvP only issue. This is usually backed by personal opinions mixed in with math that is usually not accurate/backed up by someone actually dealing in powers).
  
• Adapt and one-up the other guy using said build(I want to give the benefit of the doubt to PvPers and say this is actually more common, but a group of very prominent and loud soar-losers do the above.)
  

If A.) gets abused then PvE'rs are hurt, however if a power is actually OP(followed by a Developer of the game's math who is paid to look at powers/power numbers, and has no specific tie to one set or another). It might get ignored/hidden because of B.)(Or worse yet, a power that isn't OP could be hit because A) complains about B.)).

This is all, of course, if this game is getting adjusted with PvP first .

raighn

I too would like to see an official answer as to why they thought this was a good change... Even the implied reason of "it's easier to get SCR now" doesn't hold up when you look at the severity of the increase...

SCR acquisition was increased by about 50%... FIFTY PERCENT... thats it...
Heroics cost was icnreased by about 420%... thats absurd... 50% acuisition increase does not warrent 600% cost increase...
Unlock costs were increased by 2785%.... NEARLY THREE THOUSAND PERCENT!!!!! Did they go insane? There is nothing that can ever justify that increase... NOTHING...

A 50% acquisition increase warrents no more than a 100% cost increase...

decorumfriends

Frankly, I always thought 35 SCR was ridiculously low. Granted, they may have bumped the new price up a little much, but 35 was absurd.

raighn

decorumfriends said:

Frankly, I always thought 35 SCR was ridiculously low. Granted, they may have bumped the new price up a little much, but 35 was absurd.

A little much? 420% & 2785% increases are far more than "a little much"...

crypticbuxom

The best way to summarize this whole SCR situation is that Cryptic is giving the big middle finger to newer players. Especially for the costume and TP unlocks.​​

spinnytop

diggot said:

and you didn't have to check into a mental institution after the grind.

If you hate grinding so much, then stop doing it. Problem solved.



Fun with math:

If you do 5 rampages a day, you get 15 SCR per day. In 10 days you'll have 1 heroic piece, and buying that heroic piece will in no way slow you down from getting a Justice Piece.
Do both your alert dailies on each of those days as well, knock that up to 25, you get your heroic piece in 6 days.


If you do 10 rampages a day, you get 30 SCR per day. In 5 days youll have 1 heroic piece.
Do both your alert dailies on each of those days as well, knock that up to 40, you get your heroic piece in 4 days.


12 days from now you could have full Heroic gear, as well as some of the tokens to get some Justice Gear. The less play time or dedication that you have to attaining this goal, the longer it will take.



Does that look like something you don't wanna do? Then don't. This game doesn't bar you from doing anything if your "iLvl" isn't high enough, so all grinds are 100% voluntary with no downsides to not engaging in them.

raighn said:

I too would like to see an official answer as to why they thought this was a good change...

You wouldn't accept it if it was given to you. I can tell because people have typed it up for you to read - being typed by official hands wouldn't change what was typed or your response to it. So don't worry about it, just remain firm in your belief that it's wrongbad.

raighn

spinnytop said:

raighn said:

I too would like to see an official answer as to why they thought this was a good change...

You wouldn't accept it if it was given to you. I can tell because people have typed it up for you to read - being typed by official hands wouldn't change what was typed or your response to it. So don't worry about it, just remain firm in your belief that it's wrongbad.

All that was typed by another was a quote from Kaiserin that I'm fairly certain I remember reading from her back when Heroics were still new... LONG before she was ever a dev. And actually an official statement from the devs EXPLAINING their reason would likely be accepted, though most likely not agreed with... and if we can get an open dialog with the devs on this matter we might be able to come to an understanding and get the prices brought down to more reasonable prices...

That said, honestly while I don't agree with the severity of the cost increase for Heroics I don't completely disagree with the new 150 SCR price point. I do however vehemently disagree with the 975 Recog price tag on unlocks.

pantagruel01

xcelsior41 said:

I do however vehemently disagree with the 975 Recog price tag on unlocks.

The SCR unlocks are things that were previously only available as random drops -- and they are still available as random drops. If you don't want to farm the SCR, buy them from the AH, they won't have gotten more expensive just because it's possible to get them in another way.

draogn

pantagruel01 said:

xcelsior41 said:

I do however vehemently disagree with the 975 Recog price tag on unlocks.

The SCR unlocks are things that were previously only available as random drops -- and they are still available as random drops. If you don't want to farm the SCR, buy them from the AH, they won't have gotten more expensive just because it's possible to get them in another way.

And what about travel powers like Batflight? The change to make those prices absurd was poorly thought out.

And yes the AH prices for those pieces, at least the ones that are available, have gotten worse.

pantagruel01

draogn said:

And what about travel powers like Batflight?

Those aren't SCR. I wouldn't say that the prices are any more punishing than the prices for travel powers in the Questionite store.

raighn

pantagruel01 said:

xcelsior41 said:

I do however vehemently disagree with the 975 Recog price tag on unlocks.

The SCR unlocks are things that were previously only available as random drops -- and they are still available as random drops. If you don't want to farm the SCR, buy them from the AH, they won't have gotten more expensive just because it's possible to get them in another way.

WRONG... SCR had and still has unique costume unlocks that have never been drops... and they too are the very same 975 SCR price tag.... and previously cost WAY less... and Mechanon robot parts that were previously 12 Mechanon Coilition each now cost 975 SCR... which btw exchanges at 5 Mechanon for 1 SCR... so their cost was increased to complete absurdity...

xcelsior41

pantagruel01 said:

xcelsior41 said:

I do however vehemently disagree with the 975 Recog price tag on unlocks.

The SCR unlocks are things that were previously only available as random drops -- and they are still available as random drops. If you don't want to farm the SCR, buy them from the AH, they won't have gotten more expensive just because it's possible to get them in another way.

Weird, why'd it quote me saying that? . I agree the 975 is dumb. Just dumb. But I also have all the pieces offered/the rest are ones I wouldn't want. Still um..quite high, considering the beyond piss-poor drop rate. Increasing the amount of time needed to get items through grinding the same thing over and over is not, "A new alternative option to get items". It's simply tiresome, especially if your wanting to get the item in context(I.E, missions/lairs), the game feels like it's fighting you.

jaazaniah1

Farming would be a lot more fun if I could use multiple characters to earn that 975 SCR. All these currencies should be bind to account, not to character.

pantagruel01 said:

The SCR unlocks are things that were previously only available as random drops -- and they are still available as random drops. If you don't want to farm the SCR, buy them from the AH, they won't have gotten more expensive just because it's possible to get them in another way.

draogn

pantagruel01 said:

draogn said:

And what about travel powers like Batflight?

Those aren't SCR. I wouldn't say that the prices are any more punishing than the prices for travel powers in the Questionite store.

Compared to the absurd 975 tokens the prices for the Q travel powers are tame. There are significantly more ways to acquire Q and there are ways to get Q from multiple characters onto one character.

spinnytop

raighn said:

and if we can get an open dialog with the devs on this matter we might be able to come to an understanding and get the prices brought down to more reasonable prices...

See that's the problem. You don't want them to explain to you why they did it... you want to argue with them to change it. They don't want to spend the time arguing with you about it. They've seen all the posts you typed up where you gave your reasons for why it should be lowered, and they disagreed. They also see all the angry posts that people made, and they don't really want to waste their time talking to someone who is going to talk to them like that.

raighn

spinnytop said:

raighn said:

and if we can get an open dialog with the devs on this matter we might be able to come to an understanding and get the prices brought down to more reasonable prices...

See that's the problem. You don't want them to explain to you why they did it... you want to argue with them to change it. They don't want to spend the time arguing with you about it. They've seen all the posts you typed up where you gave your reasons for why it should be lowered, and they disagreed. They also see all the angry posts that people made, and they don't really want to waste their time talking to someone who is going to talk to them like that.

No I want exactly what I said, an open dialog to talk with them about it. Get their reasoning for it and find out if lowering the prices would ever happen. If they say they won't ever change it then that's that... I just honestly believe that an open dialog on the matter would be the best way to get some light shed on the issue.

spinnytop

raighn said:

No I want exactly what I said, an open dialog to talk with them about it. Get their reasoning for it and find out if lowering the prices would ever happen. If they say they won't ever change it then that's that... I just honestly believe that an open dialog on the matter would be the best way to get some light shed on the issue.

Problem being, it's been explained. The thing that's never going to happen is that people who don't like it are never going to accept any explanation. The devs know that, hence they won't waste their time. They've seen people give the exact reasons that they would give, and seen how people reacted. They already know how the dialogue would go.

Just accept that it's not going to change.

I don't like that the devs have no enthusiasm for making epic-level single player content, but I've accepted that it's not going to happen.

aesica

diggot said:

Currently Telios is the endgame content and i am perfectly fine with if i can't run it on my alts because they aren't in full Justice, but then it shouldn't take me 45 days to get full Heroic, ESPECIALLY NOT when it takes 2 weeks to get full Justice. I'm sure even you can see the error in that.

I can, because that's exactly what I'm getting at.

Heroic should've remained a relatively quick and easy thing to obtain because it's essentially the endgame's entry point into max level content.

diggot said:

And ontop of this, the diminishing return on Rampage loot = punishing player efforts , there is no other way to explain it. If F&I pops one day, a player should be able to farm it until he has the 6 components required for the 3 pieces... simple as that, he/she should not have to either resort to 6 alts and lady luck ... EFFORT should be the decisive factor.

Sort of. Nearly all MMOs I'm aware of have some sort of endgame content drip mechanic in place: Run this only n times per day, only earn n tokens required to redeem gear per day/week, etc. I think it's actually pretty generous that CO offers diminishing returns rather than giving players a hard cutoff after n runs. I disagree with having a slim chance at getting the drops players need, though. I also play STO, and way back in the early days, we a similar crap system, where each piece of space/ground set gear was earned in certain queued content, but with a very low drop chance. So we'd run that crap until our eyes bled, each time praying to RNGsus for that lucky drop. Thankfully, that system has been gone for years now.

ninjapiff said:

Heroic Gear is "Good-Tier" level 40 gear. It's not quite as good as Legion gear can be (depends on how good the mods you put in either, really), and it generally falls short of Justice Gear as well. However, the reason it was used so much was because it was relatively easy to get by farming SCR for a couple of days through UNITY missions. The problem is, this encouraged doing only Alerts until you hit level 40, then doing UNITY missions to replace the crappy gear you've had since level 10. People who only grind Alerts to level up won't be getting gear from Mission Rewards and the like, and generally end up falling short. With the change to SCR, if Heroic Gear stayed the same price, Heroic Gear would totally flood the market and upend the economy.

The solution is so grossly simple it isn't even funny: Make heroic gear be bind on pickup instead of bind on equip. I actually have no idea why it currently is bind on equip.

Anyway, basically the same paradigm still exists. Leveling to 40 via alerts is still encouraged because it's so much easier and faster than standard wow-style quest grinds. Only instead of picking up the now-ridiculously priced heroic gear at 40, the path of least resistance leads to primary pieces from the scaling 11k questionite gear sets or heirlooms. These should tide players over until they get their justice/etc pieces.

All the devs accomplished with their heroic gear price hike was the effective removal of heroic gear from the endgame-gear equation. Well, the secondaries are only 5 SCR so they're fine, but the primaries being 150 SCR per is a complete joke and utter waste of time.

decorumfriends

raighn said:

decorumfriends said:

Frankly, I always thought 35 SCR was ridiculously low. Granted, they may have bumped the new price up a little much, but 35 was absurd.

A little much? 420% & 2785% increases are far more than "a little much"...

Those percentages are so high because the original price was ridiculously low. I'd have gone 75-100 if I were them, so, yeah, 150's a bit higher.

nepht

e>

draogn said:

And what about travel powers like Batflight? The change to make those prices absurd was poorly thought out.

And yes the AH prices for those pieces, at least the ones that are available, have gotten worse.

Ya I just noticed the price hikes on those today . I be thinking why did they do dis @_@"

chaelk

WOW I got exactly the same response as Rampages.
GO in, get crap and a repair bill​​

spinnytop

gradii said:

How to do Endgame rewards right 101 (link)

Looks like just another "do stuff until you can get stuff" system to me.