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Lightning Arc changes
baelogventure
Posts: 520 Arc User
Purposed changes to Lightning Arc.
Move Lightning Arc to Tier 3 (comparable with moving 2GM to tier 3)
Remove the +20% damage with Negative Ions (comparable to removing +10% Resistance penetration from 2GM)
Increase energy cost by 250% (comparable with the 2GM energy increase)
Remove the ability for Lightning Arc to ramp up damage (comparable with 2GM losing it's innate Concentration)
Make Lightning Arc a 2ft Cylinder AOE (comparable to 2GM's change to a 2ft Cylinder AOE)
Add Furious, because why not. Needs more extraneous fluff to justify changes.
Finally, reduce Lightning Arc to 50ft and remove the self-root, because that's the biggest argument I hear people make about 2GM. You're mobile. So make Lightning Arc mobile too, at 50ft, like 2GM.
Move Lightning Arc to Tier 3 (comparable with moving 2GM to tier 3)
Remove the +20% damage with Negative Ions (comparable to removing +10% Resistance penetration from 2GM)
Increase energy cost by 250% (comparable with the 2GM energy increase)
Remove the ability for Lightning Arc to ramp up damage (comparable with 2GM losing it's innate Concentration)
Make Lightning Arc a 2ft Cylinder AOE (comparable to 2GM's change to a 2ft Cylinder AOE)
Add Furious, because why not. Needs more extraneous fluff to justify changes.
Finally, reduce Lightning Arc to 50ft and remove the self-root, because that's the biggest argument I hear people make about 2GM. You're mobile. So make Lightning Arc mobile too, at 50ft, like 2GM.
Post edited by carrionbaggage on
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Comments
BUFF UNDERPREFORMING SETS"
instead of making good ones suck42 40s, LTSer.
42 40s, LTSer.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
42 40s, LTSer.
instead of making good ones suck
Couldn't agree more
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
42 40s, LTSer.
I like the TGM change ONLY if they energy costs is reduced and the base damage itself isn't nerfed.
Because you do not fix power balance by introducing more broken powers. It's high time people learned that fact.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
42 40s, LTSer.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/1204394/thoughts-on-regeneration
So, yeah. And seriously, "No one's asking for more nerfs" So, what you mean to tell me is, both these threads, plus a few other threads recently in Combat&Powers and Gen. Discussion(rarely), don't exist and no one ask for nerfs?. Look around, you'll see plenty. Might not interest you because you may not use that particular set or care for that power, but the asking for reduction is most definitely there.(LA changes thread comes to mind in this very subsection.)
Passive-aggressive, Nono, more aggressive-aggressive, at least when it comes to powers. People think they know whats best for the game(Not saying I do). I simply want under-preformers brought up to "Over-preformers" standards and mobs adjusted accordingly. In a sense, I could defeat a group with Illumination+CC, does that warrent a tier change/mechanics overhaul? No. See, to some, it doesn't matter because, "I don't use it as often/have it as a staple single target in my build, so what's the big deal"? And that leads to telepathy level of crap for a power. Take Crowd Control for example, people whined and moaned because of PvP(needed it's own adjustment), so the devs took the easy way out and destroyed it, completely. AD/AO cycling? Easy way out and nerf CDR and INT
I am very salty, because it starts with one power, then a whole damn set gets destroyed, juuust like telepathy.(Not saying this is happening specifically to Munitions, just across the board in general).
42 40s, LTSer.
42 40s, LTSer.
Now for a direct breakdown of the OPs suggestion: Unnessisary change, and if this is done then either A) Electricity would need a new T1 power to take it's place or
I didn't say anything about introducing new, broken powers. I think you misquoted. It's much easier to copy/paste stuff. Quote button seems janky on these forums.
"Because 2GM with stats appropriate to its original tier and energy cost would provoke just as large a storm of complaints?"
It's not like there isn't a shortage of complaints now. Not a compelling reason since it's what happened anyway.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Maybe if you did some math you'd easily see that Lightning Arc and 2GM do nearly the exact same damage on live.
What's good for 2GM is good for Lightning Arc.
Now to refute your specific points.
1. Why would Chain Lightning need to be replaced or buffed? It works fine as it is. It's not Lightning Arc levels of OP, but then neither is Burst Shot (the new dual pistol power) not 2GM levels of OP.
2. Except not. Lightning Arc has been proven, you know, with MATH to be equal to other ranged single-target maintains in terms of DPS, which includes 2GM, Assault Rifle, Pulse Beam Rifle, TK Assault.
3. No, really, it's energy cost was increased because it was made Tier 3? Make Lightning Arc Tier 3 and you have an excuse for increasing it's energy cost by 250% as well.
4. Except the ramp-up change was actually invoking balance, since the ramp-up damage is obviously an old and outdated mechanic with no place in the modern game. Remove it's ability to ramp up damage, and it's forced to do consistent damage.
5. Except Munitions already has a cylinder AOE, it's called Gatling Gun. But they made 2GM one anyone, so for balance the same treatment needs to be made to Lightning Arc, including damage loss when hitting multiple targets.
6. Balance reasons. I mean, that's why they added Furious to 2GM. The devs somehow thought it would make up for being nerfed by leaps and bounds of magnitude.
7. But there's always 1 consistent complaint I've kept hearing from 2GM haters. It doesn't self-root. Well now neither does Lightning Arc, but there's a price for mobility for a power that does THAT much damage. It's called range.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Maybe it gains some sort of neat shield effect. Like Maintaining the power grows a shield on you, and full maintains give you a a stack of a buff that scales the shield up.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
All you need to do to see this is to stop being so in love with your current numbers. Don't worry, in the long run you'll realize you never needed them to begin with.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
42 40s, LTSer.
Looking at the ST ramp-up maintains:
PBR: 298.67 dps (not counting the crit/severity increase per tick), 6 eps
AR w/ MED: 298.5 dps (-20% since MED takes 2 adv points), 5.94 eps
TKA: 309.87 dps (not counting the crit boost from EL stacks), 6 eps
LArc: 363.34 dps (not counting NI debuff), 8 eps
So, LArc does about 20% more dps than the other ramp up ST maintains, but costs about 33% more. Issue there, though, is the NI debuff boosting LArc to ~45% more overall dps than the others, and you'd likely want NI in there anyways when using Ionic Reverb.
Now, PBR has the crit/severity thing, but it also has no lockdown whatsoever. TKA has the crit boost, and can be buffed by ERuin's adv and/or Mental Storm- but same deal w/ the no lockdown. AR w/ MED allows slow movement and has a stronger first tick for taps or if ya get interrupted, and can also take adv of Burst Shot's debuff now.
PBR could maybe use a bit of love, since it doesn't have an easy debuff to boost its dps like AR, TKA, and LArc have now. I'm unsure about LArc atm, though in general I don't like debuffs that boost dmg to be too strong.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Just so I can get clarity, though, Aqia, what are you looking for in balance, say, relative to TGM and LArc? For them to have similar optimal dps and energy consumption? And if so, which one's benchmark would you use?
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
So benchmarks are builds that keep all this in mind, which is not exactly easy. But I do think that is the way to do, make a build using powers from 1 set (with obvious out of set AO's and synergies), and see how they compare to the same things from other sets when you get your energy good enough to actually use all those powers. Then see if there are any inset outliers that need their energy cost increased (like powers that do the highest in-set damage, but have comparatively low energy management requirements) or damage buffed or lowered.
And build diversity is hurt most of all by having a power that does top end dps, while not having any significant disadvantages and hardly cost any energy.
So I guess it comes down to which is more important: intra-set balance (which, in a balanced state leads to optimized sets having similar outputs, even if the means are different) or inter-set balance (which, in a balanced state allows easier transference of powers, but at the cost of distinctiveness between the sets)?
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Making all these widely generalized assumptions about whats good for the game, with the moniker of "Build Diversity: or whatever the hell you wanna use for your assumptions when in actuality the changes you propose have the possibility to anger more than help. I want you
wanna-be devs'concerned players' to go into zone at any time you choose, and do a live poll(that's right, time to back your madness"It'll be good for the game"-Oh yeah? Prove it. Anyone can parse a number and anyone can state some 'facts', but guess what? None of that matters to joe-schmoe playing his FF or AT who hears about your idea for a change to a power(or, better yet, when said idea is brought to the PTS by a Dev.). He may like it, he may hate it, he may stay, he may leave. Who knows?. Of course you can't gauge the whole community. Just do a randomized sample of say...50 players in RenCen.(Seems easy enough). If you get a lot of support(
has to be completely random, btw). Then I have nothing to argue against and will support you as well.
You: generalized you, btw, just in case anyone was confused.
Oh! Before any of you decide to give a "smart" response to this here post: Teach me how to make a video and I'll do it my damn self.
"Sure seem butthurt of a proposed power change"-No I'm aggravated by the sheer ignorance, it's baffling.
"Blahablah something about how lower powers will bring us in-line with mobs and then buffing other powers will help yadayada"- BS. See, here's the problem with that one. Your going in a circle. The actually preforming powers will become crap, the under-preformers will become great(woot woot!) but then, in that same breath, the under-preformers get looked at for what they can do now thanks to buffs and then..well, you see where that's going.
"These nerfs actually provide balance, sorry your FoTM got neutered"-Look here wanna-be dev, I hate repeating abilities. Hell, I hate repetition in general, for that to be my FoTM..wouldn't..wouldn't it have to be on every toon I make?.
"It kills things faster than my telepath or what have you", oh damn well, grow up and get over it. This is PvE we're talking about NOT PvP.
"It's not fair because of the tier it's in"-So? Tell the devs the other power needs to be beef'd up. You think because you took away a power it'll make people appreciate the alternative? The alternatives were **** to begin with, why else would they have picked what they did?.
(To go with the top, because going in circles is the theme of these topics): "They chose what they did because it vastly over-preforms" Oh really? You know every players motives for choosing a power?? Are...um..are you psychic?
"I think the change is deserved"-Okay that's fine, that's your prerogative on the situation, and that's cool beans.
"[Some attempt at a witty alternative to this post goes here]"- Okay, okay..I see, very interest-yeah um, read what I said earlier, see "Not. A. DEVELOPER." for some insights if your having issues.
"[Strawman about FoTM goes here]"-No. FoTM means it's everywhere on everyone's characters. Unless I have it on all my toons(I can showcase them if you want?) or you (Generalized) have it on all your characters, or joe-schmoe has it on his characters, it's technically not a FoTM. See earlier in post about tiers and power-choices for issues over comparisons between sets and tiers
"You don't need high numbers, after these nerfs everything will balance itself out", Okay, for this one I direct you to my beginning topic(kinda). You don't know how this will turn out, I don't know how it'll turn out. But I can tell you you'll want to consult the actual community before hand(friends are good, but they'll mostly agree and make you feel good :kissing: . Best to go raw, see earlier in this post for what I mean.). Vehicle nerf, for example: lotta people thought it wasn't that bad, lotta people left in game. This was counter-acted by the free FF thing which was great!. But the point still stand, what you think is minor, can actually provide a sizable effect.
"Consult the community in-game? What does that matter of course there gonna argue against their FoTM or whatever being taken/changed"-Maybe. But even if they do? Some will be honest about it, and offer some interesting ways to get around completely changing a power or bringing it to uselessness that could be beneficial for the community as a whole(yes, even you!
"So-and-So got a 'nerf' and I'm using it just fine why the complaints"-Y'know, this is the most asinine BS response I have ever seen. Okay great, it works for you. Things to consider though:
- Your experience with the set as whole/that power(if none then see #2)
- Your experience with the game as a whole
- Your experience with builds(You make them, right? Your playing something and it's not complete crap, so it's a build.)
Then, assess this to the rest of the gaming community and the varying degrees of skill.(Good rule of thumb is to target new/un-experienced players and ATs)."If my build can do it and I'm not that good than everyone can
"If a power is over-preforming(stop here), your telling me your okay with leaving it as is?"-See, this is why I put "stop here". I stop reading there because..well see #2 aaand the hypothetical about not being fair in it's tier or compared to other abilities.
"Bringing more powers to ridiculous levels like the over-preformers will create more in-balance, you can't just beef up mobs to counter-act that"-I'm no dev, so I'm not going to( and my apologies if I have in this thread or another) make that definitive statement. Please see waaaay back in the beginning of this post as to ways to get solidarity on this issue.
Side-Note: To help receive a non-biased answer, I believe(though, you can't 100% eliminate bias(do NOT strawman this statement please)) this question will yield a good answer:
"[Your proposed change to..whatever goes here]; What do you think?"-To whoever your asking. Make sure this is being recorded, charts will only go so far, I believe. As was put by the almighty rules of the interwebz; "Pics or it didn't happen"(in this case, video
[More to come if any reply to this
I just had another though: It's not said, but I think a lot of concern is not about how it will do in PvE, so much as how it will do in PvP. Well..I always think PvP needs its' own mechanics seperate from PvE, as powers in PvE is like the red-shirt of the game, attacked and killed because of a PvP incident or issue with the power in PvP.(Not always true but still.)
By the way: not directed at you gradii
42 40s, LTSer.