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Device & Power Changes FC.31.20151210A.14

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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    The cooldown on Psionic Surge is almost twice that of Omicron Induced Strength, since those are directly competing as NTTG devices I think the cooldown should be the same.
  • kazecatkazecat Posts: 35 Arc User
    zamuelpwe said:

    Thinking of "spirit of the law vs letter of the law", I have a suggestion of how to revamp Skarn's Bane instead of the random effects it's being given. If Skarn's Bane is used against an enemy that has a form, forcefield, or is blocking, it should have a chance to apply a stacking debuff (we'll call it "Skarned" for now) that has -healing, -resist, and -damage. This feels more in line with what people take Skarn's Bane for and allows it to retain its unique place in the game with less bugginess. Exact numbers for such a debuff would need testing but it would better justify a high energy cost.

    I like this suggestion. I like Skarns Bane since its a key power on on of my heroes, but it will be worthless to me if it just applies random debuffs. Focusing the attack on doing a purpose similar to why I got it in the first place with make me feel better about its change.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,138 Arc User
    This will likely be scoffed at, but since this change nerfs the hell out of Mental Storm's damage, I would like to see the cooldown on Mental Storm also reduced to be "in line with other DoT powers."

    If anything the base cooldown of this power should likely be adjusted down from 15 seconds to 10.
  • edited January 2016
    Ah I kinda forgot some other abuses:

    Experimental Blaster (gadgets) 1% transform proc works on players, which is pretty much the same as insta gibbing 1% advantage vs a player which was fixed.
    2 Smoke Grenade debuffs on 1 player from 2 other players make it perma stealth disable, which is equal to crybaby nade that was nerfed.
  • riveroceanriverocean Posts: 1,690 Arc User
    zamuelpwe wrote: »
    Thinking of "spirit of the law vs letter of the law", I have a suggestion of how to revamp Skarn's Bane instead of the random effects it's being given. If Skarn's Bane is used against an enemy that has a form, forcefield, or is blocking, it should have a chance to apply a stacking debuff (we'll call it "Skarned" for now) that has -healing, -resist, and -damage. This feels more in line with what people take Skarn's Bane for and allows it to retain its unique place in the game with less bugginess. Exact numbers for such a debuff would need testing but it would better justify a high energy cost.

    Of all the suggestions made -- this one makes good sense. I hope someone is listening. Because as is Skarn's is just a high-cost dps ability. And the dps part isn't really that great.​​
    Questions About AT Play? Visit Silverwolfx11's Updated AT Guides!
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User



    zamuelpwe wrote: »

    Thinking of "spirit of the law vs letter of the law", I have a suggestion of how to revamp Skarn's Bane instead of the random effects it's being given. If Skarn's Bane is used against an enemy that has a form, forcefield, or is blocking, it should have a chance to apply a stacking debuff (we'll call it "Skarned" for now) that has -healing, -resist, and -damage. This feels more in line with what people take Skarn's Bane for and allows it to retain its unique place in the game with less bugginess. Exact numbers for such a debuff would need testing but it would better justify a high energy cost.


    Of all the suggestions made -- this one makes good sense. I hope someone is listening. Because as is Skarn's is just a high-cost dps ability. And the dps part isn't really that great.​​

    ^
    Thank you.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
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  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,620 Arc User
    xrazamax wrote: »
    Anti-Gravitron Generator has a ceiling to how high it can take you (About 20ft). This makes it pretty much useless as a device. Removing the ceiling so that it can be a way for non flight characters to reach high up places (however slowly) would make the device worth getting. Right now, anyone who buys it is going to feel very disappointed.

    EDIT:
    Apparently this is a thing people are okay with?

    I'm not. Remove the height cap on this and Vesperine Cloak.​​
  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    Please make the [Farlong Device] bound to account, similar to the other warpTo devices.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,138 Arc User
    zamuelpwe said:

    Thinking of "spirit of the law vs letter of the law", I have a suggestion of how to revamp Skarn's Bane instead of the random effects it's being given. If Skarn's Bane is used against an enemy that has a form, forcefield, or is blocking, it should have a chance to apply a stacking debuff (we'll call it "Skarned" for now) that has -healing, -resist, and -damage. This feels more in line with what people take Skarn's Bane for and allows it to retain its unique place in the game with less bugginess. Exact numbers for such a debuff would need testing but it would better justify a high energy cost.

    I've actually just read this suggestion and as long as the values on the debuff are good enough this would be a reasonable adjustment to Skarn's Bane.

    Alternatively, there could be some real hard work done on Skarn's so that it can still remove energy forms and one buff but on higher level targets (Cosmic) it instead applies a magic resistance debuff.

    Skarn's Bane, Ascension and Mental Storm are taking rather large and in most cases unnecessary hits with absolutely no compensation whatsoever. I do hope a good number of these changes are re-evaluated by the Development Team as a whole, rather than just by one or two. There is no real need to nerf the powers so bad based on opinion.

    With Skarn's, as people have already said, Rampage Gravitar has code which stops her from being adjusted by Skarn's Bane, this is probably a classification change for her passive OR there is a list of things that Skarn's Bane cannot remove simply add certain things to it.

    It is a shame to see that more and more utility abilities are being stripped of their power.
  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,178 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    What piss me the most is that Skarn's Bane, one of the FEW VERY FEW Sorcery Attacks gets nerfed and lose its Unique Utility! (CONSIDER HOW ENERGY HUNGRY THIS POWER IS, did the Cost also got Adjusted? I don't think so) and the fact that AoQeface exist in Burst Alerts making him now Unbeatable

    To add Salt in the Injury, the Random Debuffs have no synergy whatsoever with Sorcery or the other Paranormal-Damage powers

    Disoriented, Fear, Ego Leech, Twisted-Illumination would make sense and ADD Synergy with the paranormal frameworks​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • circleofpsi#4619 circleofpsi Posts: 2,961 Arc User
    Can someone point a few things out to me?, that be great!

    TP Nerf: So what kind of Nerf did this get?, I can see that Mental Storm, got a Nerf, but it don't really bother me as I HATE that power with a passion. What I want to kown about is this Man-MIP Nerf, if you can call it that, any one with good math, tell me if this is really bad or "Meh". (I am waiting on doing my PSI build, due to the fact that Mind Control still bugs, and no sound, but should I wait even Longer now?)

    Note: This qeastion is mostly aimed at Raven-Force, due to she knows alot about TP (Somehow...)


    Magic Nerfs: So, chuold someone point this out to me why, everyone is unhappy about the Magic Nerf, of the set?, I never liked the Magic powers to begin with, due to our weak they are, and the fact they are all Debuff powers.



    Lastly, the PA "Buff", if you can call them that, quite happy to see them, but is it really a Buff or, just a nice cheery?




    Thank You!



    P,S I hope we get free recons, I love free Recons!

    Psi.
  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,178 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    cryneting said:


    Magic Nerfs: So, chuold someone point this out to me why, everyone is unhappy about the Magic Nerf, of the set?, I never liked the Magic powers to begin with, due to our weak they are, and the fact they are all Debuff powers.

    For me its because how Lackluster the Sorcery Fremework(s), if you exclude the Different Auras, Circles and pets, there is almost no Variety on Attacks,
    1. Eldritch Bolts (Energy Builder)
    2. Eldtrich Blast (Single Target)
    3. Scarn's Bane (AoE)
    4. Pillar of Poz (AoE and Knock-spammer, I hate that Attack)
    5. Hex of Suffering (Crowd Control)
    6. Binding of Aratron (Crowd Control)
    if you want to focus on Magical Damage you only can pick Eldtrich Blast and Scarn's Bane and that's it, its not like
    not to mention, there are problems with many of the Sorcery attacks which fail to Synergy with each other (Eldtrich Blast's Sorcerer's Whim, WHY exactly this power doesn't work on Rooted enemies? Root is the main Crowd Control of Sorcery)

    and speaking of CC and Sorcery, Scarn's Bane Warlock's Malice and Rank 2 Hex of Suffering with Rune of Lethargy ADV still hasn't been fixed to trigger Manipulator


    Scarn's Bane had an Unique effect which is now gettting Replaced with a Useless one (and Ao'Qephoth still hasn't been DELETED from the game)​​
    Post edited by avianos on
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,178 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    - Chest Beam and Mini-Gun now debuffs Particle and Crushing resistance. This change was made to focus power debuffs on the type of damage they deal. Mini-Gun now does crushing damage. Shoulder Launcher's Fire damage portion has been changed to Particle.

    Chest Beam Debuff nerf now ruins the Synergy it had for my Music Bot Crescendo
    Now I don't have a second Debuff for Sonic damage >_>
    This character is falling apart

    SPEAKING OF, SONIC POWERFRAME WOULD BE NICE
    - Strafing run has been reduced to 3 hits. Fixed a bug where each subsequent hit wasn't diminishing in damage. Strafing run now leaves a burning patch after dealing damage. This patch has a chance to apply clinging flames.
    Never been a fan of this power since it never worked for Gamepads

    ... Does it work for Gamepad users now?
    - Orbital Cannon now applies Plasma Burn and has a 40% chance per tick to apply it with Anvil of Dawn.

    I kind fail to see how this will Benefit Orbital Cannon, it will be still still slow and Enemies will still be able to dodge it if they move in comparison with Strafing run

    ... are you guys try to make Orbital Cannon synergized with... Laser Sword?​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    avianos said:


    ... are you guys try to make Orbital Cannon synergized with... Laser Sword?​​

    Plot twist: Orbital Cannon is actually just Laser Sword being poked down from the heavens.

  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Cupid's Arrow adds a static 240 health buff, not a 5%. I dislike adding more health percentage heals/buff so I am not opposed to a fixed number buff, but maybe make it a little higher, something like 400 points would be a nice little buff.
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  • edited January 2016
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  • squirrelloidsquirrelloid Posts: 869 Arc User
    Manipulator's duration decrease: This is a terrible idea. Manipulator is *harder to stack* in most situations than any other toggle, because all the ways to stack it are powers with cooldowns, and you're generally not finishing a mob with a power that will stack it (especially since all ways to stack it generate resistance stacks that make it less and less useful on the same targets). Also, 20s is not a universal toggle time anyway - enrage is something like 30 or 35s (because melee has to get into melee range). The long manipulator stacks felt appropriate, you might as well just remove the toggle from the game if you're going to make it 20s - control is an opening move, and by the time you get to the next mob your stacks will have fallen off if its only 20s. For a style of play that's already terribly underpowered and virtually useless in team content, this is just kicking it in the crotch while it's lying on the ground.

    Chestbeam/mini-gun debuffs: Another terrible idea. (1) Making different powersets play less well together is a terrible goal. (2) The mini-gun change makes power armor toggles virtually unplayable as a concept. You'll pretty much have to exploit failures of the PA toggle exclusion to build a viable PA character. For starters, there are *no crushing damage hand slotted toggles*. (3) Having generic resistance debuffs allowed for characters which didn't particularly fit well within supported frameworks, such as characters who used diverse damage types, or characters who use damage types which aren't really localized to one powerset (sonic for instance). (4) You shouldn't have to use chestbeam and mini-gun on the same toon to achieve effective debuffs for all your PA powers, especially since Chest Beam doesn't seem to play well with toggles. (At least, in brief testing it wouldn't let me use it while using a shoulder and hand slot, despite being 'chest' slotted, so you'd have to stop your toggles to even fire it).

    Ascension: Ug. I have an idea, why not strip the bonus damage instead, and make it an AD. Give it a small AoE damage resistance boost or something to compensate for the lack of damage. It's a terrible AO compared to any other one - there's literally no point to the power without the heal.

    Mental Storm: It's got a 15s cd. There's no reason to nerf this power. Especially as the Telepathy powerset is the single worst powerset in the game because all the powers are bad. How this could be considered 'overperforming' i have no idea.

    Ego Sleep: Incorrectly? That it goes through blocking was always *intended*. Power is now worthless - its an incredibly weak hold which is broken by 1 pt of damage, and on a 15s cd no less. Going through blocking was what made it worth using at all.

    Skarn's Bane: I won't reiterate what others have said. If it must be changed, what you've done is not the way to do it. There are several suggestions in this thread which are far better and won't result in this power being completely ignored and removed from builds.

    --------------

    I have to ask, why do you hate telepathy so much? Is it not enough that its already the worst powerset in the game? Why are there never telepathy buffs? Just an endless series of nerfs for the worst set of powers. I have a suggestion - why not just remove telepathy from the game? I mean, it's not like you seem to actually want us to play with it.



  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    gradii said:

    The transform (News flash) does not kill you and actually raises your defense.

    It replaces your defense (lowers base defense on some characters), and eliminates every active ability you can use to prevent dying.
  • rtmartma Posts: 1,198 Arc User
    edited January 2016

    enrage is something like 30 or 35s

    Cause Enrage duration scales from CON, so *Suggestion* Manipulator could scale form duration to PRE.

    Especially as the Telepathy powerset is the single worst powerset in the game because all the powers are bad. How this could be considered 'overperforming' i have no idea.

    Cause inherently it revolves around support, debuffs and Crowd control, which for the Crowd Control part is outdated thanks to static HP getting destroyed by power creep, they should reintroduce Hold HP scaling with PRE along with associated Specs, CC Strength boosting it and if specialized should be able to interrupt Legendary/Cosmic Ranks, not just duration, to keep up.

    I have to ask, why do you hate telepathy so much?

    Cause they do what their masters tell them to, cause, Business.

    Post edited by rtma on
    Want to get to know me a bit better, Click me and take a read of My Dragon Profile Page, it's a bit dated but still relevant.

    I take this quote from a review that I agree with.

    "customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    gradii said:



    I'm not. Remove the height cap on this and Vesperine Cloak.​​

    Why not do that AND add more proper travel power devices, a Device version of teleport has been on my wishlist forever.
    Just take teleport. You get two two travel powers after all >_>
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,543 Arc User
    I never have any problems using both mini-gun and concussor beams with chest beam. Just have to keep an eye of the energy flow. No idea why you can't.

    squirrelloid
    "Chestbeam/mini-gun debuffs: Another terrible idea. (1) Making different powersets play less well together is a terrible goal. (2) The mini-gun change makes power armor toggles virtually unplayable as a concept. You'll pretty much have to exploit failures of the PA toggle exclusion to build a viable PA character. For starters, there are *no crushing damage hand slotted toggles*. (3) Having generic resistance debuffs allowed for characters which didn't particularly fit well within supported frameworks, such as characters who used diverse damage types, or characters who use damage types which aren't really localized to one powerset (sonic for instance). (4) You shouldn't have to use chestbeam and mini-gun on the same toon to achieve effective debuffs for all your PA powers, especially since Chest Beam doesn't seem to play well with toggles. (At least, in brief testing it wouldn't let me use it while using a shoulder and hand slot, despite being 'chest' slotted, so you'd have to stop your toggles to even fire it)."​​
    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
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  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User

    Manipulator's duration decrease: This is a terrible idea. Manipulator is *harder to stack* in most situations than any other toggle, because all the ways to stack it are powers with cooldowns, and you're generally not finishing a mob with a power that will stack it (especially since all ways to stack it generate resistance stacks that make it less and less useful on the same targets). Also, 20s is not a universal toggle time anyway - enrage is something like 30 or 35s (because melee has to get into melee range). The long manipulator stacks felt appropriate, you might as well just remove the toggle from the game if you're going to make it 20s - control is an opening move, and by the time you get to the next mob your stacks will have fallen off if its only 20s. For a style of play that's already terribly underpowered and virtually useless in team content, this is just kicking it in the crotch while it's lying on the ground.

    Please explain how Manipulator is harder to stack. I'm able to get 7 stacks after a full maintain of Ego Storm at Rank 1 Manipulator.
    download_zpsfcg5gnud.jpg
    "There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
  • rtmartma Posts: 1,198 Arc User

    I never have any problems using both mini-gun and concussor beams with chest beam. Just have to keep an eye of the energy flow. No idea why you can't.


    squirrelloid

    "Chestbeam/mini-gun debuffs​​

    Oh noes, the thought of using END/REC Super stats with Overdrive... the horror.




    Want to get to know me a bit better, Click me and take a read of My Dragon Profile Page, it's a bit dated but still relevant.

    I take this quote from a review that I agree with.

    "customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,138 Arc User
    edited January 2016

    gradii said:

    The transform (News flash) does not kill you and actually raises your defense.

    It replaces your defense (lowers base defense on some characters), and eliminates every active ability you can use to prevent dying.
    Do you know how difficult it can be to kill someone in teddified form? It does not last for very long and you are still able to break LoS.

    Do you also realize that this is a 1% chance to transform?

    There is no need to destroy this power.


  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,138 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    gradii said:

    Problem with mental storm which I'm sure you noticed is, It doesn't get it's cooldown reduced at all as you rank it. This seems like a bug which just needs fixing.

    The reason why Mental Storm never got the "Base Cooldown is Reduced as you rank up" effect that SoD and ML have is because it was a decently powerful ability and was already adjusted when it came out of the PTS (it was actually the only ability bar, Mind Break from New Telepathy that actually made it to LIVE in a WAI state back in 2013, the rest were broken AF, some still are.).

    Now it has been nerfed to match AN opinion of where it should be rather than allowing for a powerful ability to be within a struggling set. This has occured without any sensible reason provided as to why it was nerfed.
    cryneting said:

    Can someone point a few things out to me?, that be great!

    TP Nerf: So what kind of Nerf did this get?, I can see that Mental Storm, got a Nerf, but it don't really bother me as I HATE that power with a passion. What I want to kown about is this Man-MIP Nerf, if you can call it that, any one with good math, tell me if this is really bad or "Meh". (I am waiting on doing my PSI build, due to the fact that Mind Control still bugs, and no sound, but should I wait even Longer now?)

    Note: This qeastion is mostly aimed at Raven-Force, due to she knows alot about TP (Somehow...)

    Current Telepathy Nerfs:

    1) Mental Storm's damage was reduced by around half, if not more so to the point where Shadow of Doubt deals more damage than it does. - No real reason provided as to why this has been done.

    2) Ego Sleep's ability to bypass blocking has been removed. - Due to naysayers crying about this power's unique effect which has been there since BETA. The power Ego Sleep has always had 1 Hold HP as a trade off for being able to penetrate blocking mechanics and was quite useful against enemies which utilize blocking mechanics.

    3) Manipulator's duration has been reduced from 1 minute per stack to 20 seconds. This was done to "bring it in line with other form powers". It should be noted that not everyone using Manipulator makes use of PBAoE CC abilities. Manipulator's stacks lasting 1 minute per stack was implemented on purpose as it was said that it was more difficult to properly stack and use CC abilities in normal combat situations, due to cooldowns that CC powers have. Whilst in some cases this remains true, Manipulator was adjusted somewhat so that CC attempts also count towards stacking the form power. In the end, Manipulator's duration per stack is apparently so game breaking that it needed to be adjusted. I personally would have preferred for all stacks of all form powers to last 1 minute instead. At least in that way, everyone is on an equal level after overly long cut scenes and not just "Crowd Controllers". Overall this change just means that Manipulator users will have to watch their stacks and get used to the nerfed duration.

    4) Mind Control ability on LIVE is a Hot Mess as far as I am concerned, it was dealt with poorly which seems to be the trend when it comes to Telepathy powers, so I was not too surprised when 99% of the feedback on Mind Control was flatly ignored. The power has zero innate effect on the new classification of higher level targets (which is specifically capped for this ability, hence why it is so bad), namely: Enforcer, Master Villain, Player, Super Villain, Legendary & Cosmic. I never expected it to have a mind controlling effect on Players & up, but it's current iteration is stupid and a waste of time.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,138 Arc User



    I have to ask, why do you hate telepathy so much? Is it not enough that its already the worst powerset in the game? Why are there never telepathy buffs? Just an endless series of nerfs for the worst set of powers. I have a suggestion - why not just remove telepathy from the game? I mean, it's not like you seem to actually want us to play with it.

    As I've said before, it is to maintain the status quo.

    It seems to be the case that if Telepathy is doing anything well, it is clearly "Overperforming and requires adjusting."

    It's funny you should mention removing Telepathy from the game, not only would that fit in with CO's lore (in terms of legal restrictions on telepathy users) but it's something I've been joke suggesting for a long time.

    I guess now that Crowd Control & Telepathy can be officially hated more will just keep rolling in. I'll wait.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User

    gradii said:

    The transform (News flash) does not kill you and actually raises your defense.

    It replaces your defense (lowers base defense on some characters), and eliminates every active ability you can use to prevent dying.
    Do you know how difficult it can be to kill someone in teddified form? It does not last for very long and you are still able to break LoS.

    Do you also realize that this is a 1% chance to transform?

    There is no need to destroy this power.


    'Course there is, it offers something different than their current build.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User



    I have to ask, why do you hate telepathy so much? Is it not enough that its already the worst powerset in the game? Why are there never telepathy buffs? Just an endless series of nerfs for the worst set of powers. I have a suggestion - why not just remove telepathy from the game? I mean, it's not like you seem to actually want us to play with it.

    As I've said before, it is to maintain the status quo.

    It seems to be the case that if Telepathy is doing anything well, it is clearly "Overperforming and requires adjusting."

    It's funny you should mention removing Telepathy from the game, not only would that fit in with CO's lore (in terms of legal restrictions on telepathy users) but it's something I've been joke suggesting for a long time.

    I guess now that Crowd Control & Telepathy can be officially hated more will just keep rolling in. I'll wait.
    If they remove telepathy, this MMO will be the first in superhero history to actually nerf something so bad it actually gets removed. I could see this happening not only to telepathy, but a few sets down the road :/
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • squirrelloidsquirrelloid Posts: 869 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    cyrone said:

    Manipulator's duration decrease: This is a terrible idea. Manipulator is *harder to stack* in most situations than any other toggle, because all the ways to stack it are powers with cooldowns, and you're generally not finishing a mob with a power that will stack it (especially since all ways to stack it generate resistance stacks that make it less and less useful on the same targets). Also, 20s is not a universal toggle time anyway - enrage is something like 30 or 35s (because melee has to get into melee range). The long manipulator stacks felt appropriate, you might as well just remove the toggle from the game if you're going to make it 20s - control is an opening move, and by the time you get to the next mob your stacks will have fallen off if its only 20s. For a style of play that's already terribly underpowered and virtually useless in team content, this is just kicking it in the crotch while it's lying on the ground.

    Please explain how Manipulator is harder to stack. I'm able to get 7 stacks after a full maintain of Ego Storm at Rank 1 Manipulator.
    Yes, if you use Ego Storm you can max it out fast. That's pretty much the only power that does that, and it also gives all enemies 3 stacks of hold resistance most of the time. Hint: Not everyone uses or wants to use Ego Storm (and hence why i said 'in most situations').

    I'm also not sure Ego Storm will give you *any* stacks against a cosmic/legendary. It certainly doesn't provide wither or ... whatever the other one is called... unless it actually holds the target (tested). So it only seems to count as a hold if it *can* hold the target.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User

    (1) Making different powersets play less well together is a terrible goal. (2) The mini-gun change makes power armor toggles virtually unplayable as a concept. You'll pretty much have to exploit failures of the PA toggle exclusion to build a viable PA character. For starters, there are *no crushing damage hand slotted toggles*. (3) Having generic resistance debuffs allowed for characters which didn't particularly fit well within supported frameworks, such as characters who used diverse damage types, or characters who use damage types which aren't really localized to one powerset (sonic for instance). (4) You shouldn't have to use chestbeam and mini-gun on the same toon to achieve effective debuffs for all your PA powers, especially since Chest Beam doesn't seem to play well with toggles. (At least, in brief testing it wouldn't let me use it while using a shoulder and hand slot, despite being 'chest' slotted, so you'd have to stop your toggles to even fire it).

    Not sure if you read the patch notes, or read the descriptions on minigun or chest beam. All PA powers now do crushing or particle damage, both minigun adv and chest beam now do a crushing and particle resist debuff. So PA is not really affected at all.

    Ascension: Ug. I have an idea, why not strip the bonus damage instead, and make it an AD. Give it a small AoE damage resistance boost or something to compensate for the lack of damage. It's a terrible AO compared to any other one - there's literally no point to the power without the heal.

    Ascension gives a big heal bonus and a high in-combat flight speed, on top of having the normal AO damage bonus. All in all it's still one of the better AO's.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,138 Arc User

    I'm also not sure Ego Storm will give you *any* stacks against a cosmic/legendary. It certainly doesn't provide wither or ... whatever the other one is called... unless it actually holds the target (tested). So it only seems to count as a hold if it *can* hold the target.

    Ego Storm will grant stacks as long as it is maintained and your target does not die. As an Incapaciderp (Incapacitate) it is designed to work with Manipulator.

    This basically means that even if you stack up 6 stacks of Hold Resistance on a target and then activate Ego Storm, you will still gain or refresh Manipulator stacks.

    It is interesting to note that the actual time taken between activation and holding seems to now be LONGER than the stupid 1 second rule.

    That ridiculous one second rule on Incapaciderps needs to be burnt in a raging inferno and never thought about again.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    aiqa said:

    (1) Making different powersets play less well together is a terrible goal. (2) The mini-gun change makes power armor toggles virtually unplayable as a concept. You'll pretty much have to exploit failures of the PA toggle exclusion to build a viable PA character. For starters, there are *no crushing damage hand slotted toggles*. (3) Having generic resistance debuffs allowed for characters which didn't particularly fit well within supported frameworks, such as characters who used diverse damage types, or characters who use damage types which aren't really localized to one powerset (sonic for instance). (4) You shouldn't have to use chestbeam and mini-gun on the same toon to achieve effective debuffs for all your PA powers, especially since Chest Beam doesn't seem to play well with toggles. (At least, in brief testing it wouldn't let me use it while using a shoulder and hand slot, despite being 'chest' slotted, so you'd have to stop your toggles to even fire it).

    Not sure if you read the patch notes, or read the descriptions on minigun or chest beam. All PA powers now do crushing or particle damage, both minigun adv and chest beam now do a crushing and particle resist debuff. So PA is not really affected at all.

    Ascension: Ug. I have an idea, why not strip the bonus damage instead, and make it an AD. Give it a small AoE damage resistance boost or something to compensate for the lack of damage. It's a terrible AO compared to any other one - there's literally no point to the power without the heal.

    Ascension gives a big heal bonus and a high in-combat flight speed, on top of having the normal AO damage bonus. All in all it's still one of the better AO's.
    Yes, but it would be better served as an AD, personally. That way it could be properly categorized(I agree with squirrell to remove the +damage and keep the burst heal(that's what makes it better, the +Healing is just icing on the cake.)
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • quasimojo1quasimojo1 Posts: 642 Arc User
    aiqa said:


    Ascension gives a big heal bonus and a high in-combat flight speed, on top of having the normal AO damage bonus. All in all it's still one of the better AO's.

    Well, the temporary flight effect is being nerfed to operate with the same limitations as normal travel powers, right? The heal bonus was useful for activating longer term heal effects like Elixir, but I can't really think of many situations where I just need a very short term heal% bonus (capped by DR) rather than an immediate big heal (like Resurgence or Palliate, for example). The damage bonus from Ascension is significantly less than other AO's, so I wouldn't take it for damage. Opinions can certainly vary, but I'm with the folks having a hard time seeing the value of the new Ascension.

    LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.

    "Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User

    aiqa said:


    Ascension gives a big heal bonus and a high in-combat flight speed, on top of having the normal AO damage bonus. All in all it's still one of the better AO's.

    Well, the temporary flight effect is being nerfed to operate with the same limitations as normal travel powers, right? The heal bonus was useful for activating longer term heal effects like Elixir, but I can't really think of many situations where I just need a very short term heal% bonus (capped by DR) rather than an immediate big heal (like Resurgence or Palliate, for example). The damage bonus from Ascension is significantly less than other AO's, so I wouldn't take it for damage. Opinions can certainly vary, but I'm with the folks having a hard time seeing the value of the new Ascension.

    It really would just be better served as an AD, honestly, and the burst heal be kept.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited January 2016

    Do you know how difficult it can be to kill someone in teddified form?

    I believe I first used it to kill a supertank sometime back in 2010. And for reference, I actually don't care about teddifying working on players, I was just correcting a false statement.

    There is no need to destroy this power.

    Eh, teddifying never had any point other than trolling, breaking the game, and ganking supertanks.
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  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,138 Arc User

    Do you know how difficult it can be to kill someone in teddified form?

    I believe I first used it to kill a supertank sometime back in 2010. And for reference, I actually don't care about teddifying working on players, I was just correcting a false statement.

    There is no need to destroy this power.

    Eh, teddifying never had any point other than trolling, breaking the game, and ganking supertanks.
    Trolling...in PvP situations, when you go into PvP anything goes pretty much.

    In PvE, the actual impact of this power has not only got a very minimal chance to begin with (1%), it has also been nerfed to only work on non Super Villain and above targets.

    Breaking the game, no not really. Even when it did interfere with rampages or alerts the effect never completely broke the encounter so it never functioned properly, it simply hindered rather than helped.

    Ganking super tanks...that's one of the perils of being in PvP, anything can happen.

  • ogremindesogremindes Posts: 348 Arc User

    Manipulator's duration decrease: This is a terrible idea. Manipulator is *harder to stack* in most situations than any other toggle, because all the ways to stack it are powers with cooldowns, and you're generally not finishing a mob with a power that will stack it (especially since all ways to stack it generate resistance stacks that make it less and less useful on the same targets). Also, 20s is not a universal toggle time anyway - enrage is something like 30 or 35s (because melee has to get into melee range). The long manipulator stacks felt appropriate, you might as well just remove the toggle from the game if you're going to make it 20s - control is an opening move, and by the time you get to the next mob your stacks will have fallen off if its only 20s. For a style of play that's already terribly underpowered and virtually useless in team content, this is just kicking it in the crotch while it's lying on the ground.

    Aye, agreed on all counts. Ego Storm may proc it fast, but Manip is the Concentration equivalent for control builds, not a Telepathy power in anything but name.

    -Ogre
  • sigmaseven0sigmaseven0 Posts: 714 Arc User
    cyrone said:


    Please explain how Manipulator is harder to stack. I'm able to get 7 stacks after a full maintain of Ego Storm at Rank 1 Manipulator.

    1. Using CC applies resistance. Because of this, you cant freely spam CC the way you can damage powers with other forms without being penalized. CC generally operates at a different pace than DPS.
    2. CC is about timing. Spamming CC to build manipulator is likely to cause your target to be resistant at the moment you need the CC to work.
    3. CC is already universally under-performing. That alone is reason enough not to nerf it an any way.
    4. How does this manipulator change make CC more fun, useful, or effective?

    PVP is starving without rewards

    1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
    2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User


    Trolling...in PvP situations, when you go into PvP anything goes pretty much.

    Was talking about PvE, where it just uselessly makes targets harder to kill.

    Breaking the game, no not really. Even when it did interfere with rampages or alerts the effect never completely broke the encounter so it never functioned properly, it simply hindered rather than helped.

    I'd point out exceptions but I'm not sure they're fixed. However, non-usefully breaking missions is still breaking them.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,138 Arc User
    edited January 2016


    Trolling...in PvP situations, when you go into PvP anything goes pretty much.

    Was talking about PvE, where it just uselessly makes targets harder to kill.

    Breaking the game, no not really. Even when it did interfere with rampages or alerts the effect never completely broke the encounter so it never functioned properly, it simply hindered rather than helped.

    I'd point out exceptions but I'm not sure they're fixed. However, non-usefully breaking missions is still breaking them.
    Even in PvE, unless you are on a team of people who ONLY use Experimental Blaster, that 1% chance to transform is not going to impact you so greatly that you cannot overcome it. The transformation is not permanent either.

    Teddification does not work (or rather should not work) on Super Villains, Legendary & Cosmic rank foes.

    Caliburn may be an exception since he's completely whacky for a Legendary opponent and has so many issues.

    And outside of timed alerts...teddification isn't, as far as I know, proving to be a show stopper.

    As a user of Experimental Blaster, I actually see Death Ray as much as I do Teddification and I seldom see Death Ray.

    It's almost as if people are trying to have quirky or fun powers destroyed because it doesn't DPS/TANK/HEAL.

    In other news, if you know exceptions feel free to share here or via forum PMs
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User


    Trolling...in PvP situations, when you go into PvP anything goes pretty much.

    Was talking about PvE, where it just uselessly makes targets harder to kill.

    Breaking the game, no not really. Even when it did interfere with rampages or alerts the effect never completely broke the encounter so it never functioned properly, it simply hindered rather than helped.

    I'd point out exceptions but I'm not sure they're fixed. However, non-usefully breaking missions is still breaking them.
    Even in PvE, unless you are on a team of people who ONLY use Experimental Blaster, that 1% chance to transform is not going to impact you so greatly that you cannot overcome it. The transformation is not permanent either.

    Teddification does not work (or rather should not work) on Super Villains, Legendary & Cosmic rank foes.

    Caliburn may be an exception since he's completely whacky for a Legendary opponent and has so many issues.

    And outside of timed alerts...teddification isn't, as far as I know, proving to be a show stopper.

    As a user of Experimental Blaster, I actually see Death Ray as much as I do Teddification and I seldom see Death Ray.

    It's almost as if people are trying to have quirky or fun powers destroyed because it doesn't DPS/TANK/HEAL.

    In other news, if you know exceptions feel free to share here or via forum PMs
    Gotta have the trinity, because games can function without it
    /sarcasm.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • ogremindesogremindes Posts: 348 Arc User
    Power Changes
    - Manipulator's duration has been reduced to 20 seconds to match other forms.
    Control builds do not need to be weakened, they're already under performing niche builds. Manipulator's old duration reflects the fact that it's harder and less desirable to spam control powers generally.

    - Chest Beam and Mini-Gun now debuffs Particle and Crushing resistance. This change was made to focus power debuffs on the type of damage they deal. Mini-Gun now does crushing damage. Shoulder Launcher's Fire damage portion has been changed to Particle.
    The fact that you have to change a bullet power to crushing suggests that you're shoehorning this change in where it doesn't belong.

    - Fiery Form now has a chance to apply clinging flames when hit by an attack.
    Makes sense.

    - Added Kzash Hounds as a pet option for Command Animals.
    More of this sort of thing, thanks!

    - Ascension no longer innately heals. This change was made because Ascension is a active offense, not a active defense. The heal portion is supposed to be wrapped up in the advantage. The Judgement advantage heal has been increased.
    Maybe it should be changed to an AD instead, as Celestial already has another AO.

    - Celestial Cleansing's buff dispel has been replaced with a damage debuff. This was done due to issues the buff dispel was causing.
    Seems a lazy way to fix the problem, but whatever.

    - Corrected various -travel abilities to properly remove ascension's flight buff.
    Sounds like it's also removing the rest of Ascension's buffs.

    - Ego Sleep no longer incorrectly goes through blocking.
    Control builds don't need to be weakened.

    - Hex of Suffering can no longer crit. It now gets a damage bonus based off of your crit chance and severity. Hex of Suffering now applies a magic resistance debuff.
    Sorcery does a bunch of different damage types, a resistance debuff to work with that set should be untyped.

    - Ego Sprites has been changes to a pbaoe power. Its damage now takes into account your crit and severity.
    It matches the animations I guess.

    - Skarn's Bane Buff and Energy Form removal have been replaced with a 20% chance every .5 seconds to apply a random debuff to affected targets. This was done as the buff removal was causing problems.
    I would suggest a debuff to damage, resistance and healing rather than random, to keep with the power's purpose. Random debuffs doesn't really fit well, especially as many debuffs exist mainly or even exclusively for power synergies.

    -Ogre
  • squirrelloidsquirrelloid Posts: 869 Arc User
    aiqa said:

    (1) Making different powersets play less well together is a terrible goal. (2) The mini-gun change makes power armor toggles virtually unplayable as a concept. You'll pretty much have to exploit failures of the PA toggle exclusion to build a viable PA character. For starters, there are *no crushing damage hand slotted toggles*. (3) Having generic resistance debuffs allowed for characters which didn't particularly fit well within supported frameworks, such as characters who used diverse damage types, or characters who use damage types which aren't really localized to one powerset (sonic for instance). (4) You shouldn't have to use chestbeam and mini-gun on the same toon to achieve effective debuffs for all your PA powers, especially since Chest Beam doesn't seem to play well with toggles. (At least, in brief testing it wouldn't let me use it while using a shoulder and hand slot, despite being 'chest' slotted, so you'd have to stop your toggles to even fire it).

    Not sure if you read the patch notes, or read the descriptions on minigun or chest beam. All PA powers now do crushing or particle damage, both minigun adv and chest beam now do a crushing and particle resist debuff. So PA is not really affected at all.
    Now PA has to use both of them instead of just one. That's pretty lame. My PA toggles toon doesn't use Chest Beam.

    Ascension: Ug. I have an idea, why not strip the bonus damage instead, and make it an AD. Give it a small AoE damage resistance boost or something to compensate for the lack of damage. It's a terrible AO compared to any other one - there's literally no point to the power without the heal.

    Ascension gives a big heal bonus and a high in-combat flight speed, on top of having the normal AO damage bonus. All in all it's still one of the better AO's.
    It has half the normal AO bonus on live. I did not look for that on PTS. And no healer needs the healing bonus, nor does anyone use it for the damage at present. They are gutting its current functionality.
  • kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    It has half the normal AO bonus on live. I did not look for that on PTS. And no healer needs the healing bonus, nor does anyone use it for the damage at present. They are gutting its current functionality.

    I just want to point out (which I've mentioned before) that Ascension was originally just the damage, healing bonus, and flight. The burst of AoE healing was added in as compensation when they made Nailed To The Ground able to cancel Ascension's flight, because cancelling the flight currently cancels the rest of the buff. With the new patch, they are fixing it so that Nailed To The Ground cancels only the flight, so it does make sense to remove the AoE heal in that regard.

    Personally though, I very much love the suggestion of turning it into an Active Defense based on the burst healing instead.​​
    100% of the world is crazy, 95% are in denial.

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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited January 2016

    aiqa said:

    (1) Making different powersets play less well together is a terrible goal. (2) The mini-gun change makes power armor toggles virtually unplayable as a concept. You'll pretty much have to exploit failures of the PA toggle exclusion to build a viable PA character. For starters, there are *no crushing damage hand slotted toggles*. (3) Having generic resistance debuffs allowed for characters which didn't particularly fit well within supported frameworks, such as characters who used diverse damage types, or characters who use damage types which aren't really localized to one powerset (sonic for instance). (4) You shouldn't have to use chestbeam and mini-gun on the same toon to achieve effective debuffs for all your PA powers, especially since Chest Beam doesn't seem to play well with toggles. (At least, in brief testing it wouldn't let me use it while using a shoulder and hand slot, despite being 'chest' slotted, so you'd have to stop your toggles to even fire it).

    Not sure if you read the patch notes, or read the descriptions on minigun or chest beam. All PA powers now do crushing or particle damage, both minigun adv and chest beam now do a crushing and particle resist debuff. So PA is not really affected at all.
    Now PA has to use both of them instead of just one. That's pretty lame. My PA toggles toon doesn't use Chest Beam.
    It doesn't need that at all. Minigun does both a particle and a crushing resistance debuff. So minigun by itself debuffs the resistance against the damage type of any PA attack. So your assumption is just not correct, just look at the description of the power. And if your damage tests show the minigun adv isn't doing a resistance debuff for either of the damage types, that is a bug, so report it as one.
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