Being an Onslaught villain doesn't give you the right to ruin the game for others.

guyhumual

So I was having fun playing the holiday event, fighting Clarence to be precise, when I start taking massive damage for apparently no reason. Turns out a player, who shall remain nameless at the moment (I do have his player name and @ handle written down) had wondered into the fight and started attacking players. At first I thought maybe it was a mistake and he was trying to use the villain to attack Clarence, but no, he was actively targeting players, killing me multiple times even though I tried to avoid him and he'd have gotten no points for killing me over and over again. There's no reason for this except to ruin the game for others. I have no problems with this if people want to opt into the Overwatch system. But using a chaotic event like this to trick people into opting in is low and despicable.

vinxbr

Since this Onslaught system was announced i was affraid that it could (and would, if nothing has done to prevent it) happen, and unfortunatelly i was right, in the bloodmoon they aded that turrets near Tako spawn, would be nice if the same was done with Clarence spawns.

chaelk

The problem is, from the start. I pointed out, that all they had to do to get people 'Tagged' as fighting OV was to stand where that person was fighting. It's exactly what people in Rift would do to get people tagged for PvP. You can't be tagged for PVP unless in the opposing sides area or attack them in yours. So the players would go to the low level area in the opposing side and stand in the groups people were trying to attack.
So we had the ones fighting near Kodiak, where people are trying to missions, even after the location was changed and now the ones getting in the Clarence fight where a lot of people are trying to attack, in the hope some do AOE attacks and hit them. They an then use their attacks and get free tokens from people who are fighting something else. This includes hanging around at the reward spot afterwards , waiting for anyone to try and claim it.
Instead of this, they should make it a toggle, to turn on fighting OV, so people have to choose and can't forced. Yes people will complain about not being able to get their first free shot in but the OV won't be able to target anyone not willingly taking part.
Healing a person fighting the OV, should also auto toggle you. You're taking part, you take your chances.​​

guyhumual

Have a zone dedicated to just Onslaught is still the best option in my opinion.

guyhumual

gradii said:

Onslaught System.

Thanks, edited the title

kallethen

IMO, the best solution would be to let us players be able to toggle on or off the flag.​​

nepht

kallethen said:

IMO, the best solution would be to let us players be able to toggle on or off the flag.​​

Being able to toggle would cause exploits but your idea is awesome if its adjusted to the flag disappearing after a few mins of not doing onslaught.

kallethen

nepht wrote: »

Being able to toggle would cause exploits but your idea is awesome if its adjusted to the flag disappearing after a few mins of not doing onslaught.

How about: Player needs to toggle a switch to participate in OV. Player cannot toggle this off if they have the Onslaught buff that we have now (so players can't just drop out to deny points).​​

spinnytop

I mentioned this should be an event that gets turned off when other events start, but noooooooo, my suggestion got buried by people crying about balance and tokens.

nepht

spinnytop said:

I mentioned this should be an event that gets turned off when other events start, but noooooooo, my suggestion got buried by people crying about balance and tokens.

spinnytop

nepht said:

spinnytop said:

I mentioned this should be an event that gets turned off when other events start, but noooooooo, my suggestion got buried by people crying about balance and tokens.

Is that your response to the OP? Because I'm playing other games and am unaffected by this issue

avianos

I believe putting 4-6 (just to be sure) Hermes turrets in every Clarence Spawn Point would penaltized the the Griefers and fix the issue

because that's what those people are Griefers and Scambag PvPers)​

The Takofanes spawn point was armed with turrets and it was effective!​​

rtma

Then give them a lecture on morals and courtesy while they realized their wrong doings so they can cease and repent for all their sins...

decorumfriends

Eh, wouldn't be necessary if people would just follow the rule of "don't be a dick". Unfortunately, experience with other humans has convinced me this is not a realistic possibility.

rtma

decorumfriends said:

Eh, wouldn't be necessary if people would just follow the rule of "don't be a dick". Unfortunately, experience with other humans has convinced me this is not a realistic possibility.

Well that's the unconscious minds at work their, thinking only about themselves, little bit of compassion and courtesy can go a long way I say.

guyhumual

Just give them a week long ban and remove all their tokens.

guyhumual

spinnytop said:

I mentioned this should be an event that gets turned off when other events start, but noooooooo, my suggestion got buried by people crying about balance and tokens.

Well I'd agree that shutting down the entire system for three weeks might be a bit much, but if people can't behave themselves maybe this is why we can't have nice things?

gogoginga1

So ,a certain player takes great delight in following the Clarence battles , leaps into the middle of the fight onto Clarence to get themselves tagged by as many players as possible and also runs into any AOE attacks ,then proceeds to kill as many players as they can especially the low levels , and follows the mob to destroy players trying to get their rewards.
Hes also broadcasting in the Clarence hunting channels that the devs wont touch him because hes just using the OV as intended and is taunting players ,

I'm interested in hearing the responses to this , no you cant just kill them , because some of the combatants are low level or even new players trying to have fun with their first Christmas event , no you can't not use Aoe some players main attacks are AoE its all they have if they wish to participate

This is an attempt for a reasonable discussion to see if we can make this work as intended , I myself enjoy the OV part of the game , but not when it is forced on me by players who seen to have no form of social conscience

perhaps some sort of OV whitelist toggle with a cooldown to prevent abuse

People still spawn camp , and know all the right spots to avoid the turrets , I know the system will always have its abusers

lets see if we can sort this so everyone can enjoy it

thegrandnagus1

Until the devs fix this, someone else could use their OV to attack this person.

gogoginga1

OV's don't seem to do a lot to other OV's , (please correct me if im wrong , im most familiar with grond), and if they use the really big attacks they would take out a lot of players as collateral that are tagged by the problem OV , actually I like the idea of OV hunting with an OV , perhaps they should make it so OV's do greater damage to each other , that sounds like fun

itsbrou

People will do exactly what the game allows them to do, which is what you are going through. It's written into the game. Now if you don't want the OVs to be able to do that, you can always post a suggestion.

As an OV player myself, I take it to be more obscene that there's an air of entitlement to guardian tokens, and that OVs must run on their swords and give out free guardian tokens to people lounging in Ren Center. I think this activity should be discouraged by the devs as soon as they can figure out how.

gogoginga1

will do , I guess im in the wrong section

discussion started

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/1203796/onslaught-whitelisting

animalgirl95

Firstly I'd like to state that I actually like the Onslaught Villain system for the most part ( since apparently not liking my fun ruined = hate everything about OVs to some people) but the open world PvP aspect is making CO a far less fun place to be. Gronds leaping into Ren Cen and being slapped around by a dozen idle level 40s is a nice change from duels and standing around but since the March of the Misfit toys event has started there have been problems.
Certain players are using OV devices to get easy kills during the Clarence battles, taking out the more fragile characters in a single hit since they are focused on the big ol' bear and don't have warning to block. This is minority behaviour, only 4 or 5 players are exploiting the game mechanics in this manner but that unfortunately means that there is an OV at nearly every Clarence battle.

A whitelist flag for OV engagements would be the best way of dealing with unwanted fights, but in the meantime a few Hermes turrets spaced around the BH spawn area ( and not right up against one side of the presents so their field of fire is useless) would seem to be the simplest solution and the one most suggested in game chat.​​

guyhumual

gogoginga1 said:

Hes also broadcasting in the Clarence hunting channels that the devs wont touch him because hes just using the OV as intended and is taunting players ,

Oh, hes' actually broadcasting in channels? He's just trying to take trolling to the max then.

He's not using OV as intended obviously, the idea is that people could opt into the system by knowingly attacking an OV, but if they're using the chaos of global villain to take away people's consent then he's knowingly violating the intent of the system . . . and if he's also taunting people in chat he clearly knows he's in the wrong and is trying to whip people up into a fervor.

Personally I don't have anything against the OV system. I don't use it, but I got nothing against it, but if this is allowed to continue, and open world missions can be spoiled by sociopaths then I start to have a problem. Don't take the system down but something needs to be done to tweak the system.

guyhumual

someguywhoplaysgames said:

People will do exactly what the game allows them to do, which is what you are going through. It's written into the game. Now if you don't want the OVs to be able to do that, you can always post a suggestion.

As an OV player myself, I take it to be more obscene that there's an air of entitlement to guardian tokens, and that OVs must run on their swords and give out free guardian tokens to people lounging in Ren Center. I think this activity should be discouraged by the devs as soon as they can figure out how.

Usually when people do that they're done with their dailies and can't be bothered letting the timer run out so they go to the ren center to be charitable about it. Even with this people can choose not to attack the OV. When you're fighting a global villain you can't choose to have your AoE powers effect the OV or healing those that have chosen to participate in the OV fight. Even if you find giving guardian points away for free distasteful it's not something that's being done against someone's will.

Letting people kill your OV is cheap perhaps, but it's not spoiling the game for others.

jonsills

You know why the GMs aren't stopping him?

Because people discourage one another from filing tickets. I've only run into this variety of griefing once so far, and while I was down I made sure to get the player's @name and file a ticket on him/her. To be sure, all I'll ever see is the canned response, because they'd be on shaky legal ground if they broadcast punishments, but I have seen other player-behavior tickets taking effect (it's always amusing to see someone log in as Badname81233 and complain about losing their costume), so I know that someone at some level actually takes notice of the reports.

You spot the dude griefing? File a ticket. GM Assistance -> Behavior, file it as Griefing, give the @name and describe the incident.

crashjrive

someguywhoplaysgames said:

People will do exactly what the game allows them to do, which is what you are going through. It's written into the game. Now if you don't want the OVs to be able to do that, you can always post a suggestion.

As an OV player myself, I take it to be more obscene that there's an air of entitlement to guardian tokens, and that OVs must run on their swords and give out free guardian tokens to people lounging in Ren Center. I think this activity should be discouraged by the devs as soon as they can figure out how.

I agree with this. Once I was battling heroes and some of them got mad at me that I didn't suicide or simply let them win at the end. A lot of them gave up during the fight.

The amount of complaining from OVs and the Winter event is insane, a lot of people don't realize something will obviously be done about it either and continue to keep whining.

guyhumual

jonsills said:

You spot the dude griefing? File a ticket. GM Assistance -> Behavior, file it as Griefing, give the @name and describe the incident.

Done this today and yesterday. Maybe I should file a ticket for every event they grief?

spinnytop

someguywhoplaysgames said:

People will do exactly what the game allows them to do, which is what you are going through. It's written into the game. Now if you don't want the OVs to be able to do that, you can always post a suggestion.

As an OV player myself, I take it to be more obscene that there's an air of entitlement to guardian tokens, and that OVs must run on their swords and give out free guardian tokens to people lounging in Ren Center. I think this activity should be discouraged by the devs as soon as they can figure out how.

Agreed. OVs are not loot pinatas.


Honestly, I think the GMs aren't doing anything about this because the devs told them not to. Something along the lines of "Players are being too whiny about fighting OVs and it's ruining the fun for OV players.... so this is where the OV players get to get some fun back "


Holiday events are now basically just salmon traps for OV players to feast on.

guyhumual

I personally think it's just the weekend and tickets will be reviewed on Monday

thegrandnagus1

jonsills said:

You know why the GMs aren't stopping him?

Probably because there aren't any Champions GM's or the number is so small there would be a huge delay between a report and consequences. So any action taken would probably be long after this event is over...though I would love to be proven wrong.

jennymachx

Probably going to get backlash for my opinion but I think that Onslaught should be temporarily disabled during events...

...or as suggested it should be possible to create an anti-OV circle around Clarence or other event-related enemies so that the OVs deal zero damage while in it, the same way how players not involved in a duel aren't able to interfere.

hasukurobi

jennymachx said:

Probably going to get backlash for my opinion but I think that Onslaught should be temporarily disabled during events...

...or as suggested it should be possible to create an anti-OV circle around Clarence or other event-related enemies so that the OVs deal zero damage while in it, the same way how players not involved in a duel aren't able to interfere.

Totally not required. All that needs to be done, and should have been done long ago, is to make the flag for fighting OV's a toggle. You switch it on and then cannot turn it off for a set amount of time. If it is not on then you cannot get credit from them, cannot damage them, cannot heal anyone with the tag on, and cannot be harmed by the OV's.

Game, set, match. All taken care of.

jennymachx

EDIT: Nvm, totally misread the "cannot heal anyone with tag on." bit.

kemmicals

Thinking there should probably be a status effect that makes the person immune to OV damage and keeps them from damaging the OV while fighting event bosses that goes away after a bit.

itsbrou

There has to be a better way to do this. Maybe turrets shouldn't be killer turrets and instead zap the OVs with something else to get rid of them, be it repels, mega knocks, or stuns that hamper control. Anything but damage. That way more could exist around the world.

Or we could have Clarence's PBAOE do 100% health damage to OVs. That would make a decent bandaid.

jennymachx

I'm behind Clarence dealing 100% damage to OVs to one-shot them. It sounds both hilarious and effective.

kemmicals

The mighty Grond, felled by a teddy bear. Pure poetry.

spinnytop

someguywhoplaysgames said:

Or we could have Clarence's PBAOE do 100% health damage to OVs. That would make a decent bandaid.

Yes, that would be an amazing way for OVs to feed people Guardian tokens!

jonsills

guyhumual wrote: »

You spot the dude griefing? File a ticket. GM Assistance -> Behavior, file it as Griefing, give the @name and describe the incident.

Done this today and yesterday. Maybe I should file a ticket for every event they grief?

By all means, file a ticket every time it happens. The greater the volume, the more attention is paid. (Just make sure there's a griefing incident before you file a ticket, as they will go over the logs pertaining to the incident, and false positives will tend to get reports ignored.)

Nagus, I've seen enough people complaining over the last couple of months about being genericed to make me understand that the GM (I think there's only one) is indeed out there - but you have to report the behavior before it can be responded to. One man can't be everywhere.​​

squirrelloid

gradii said:

vinxbr said:

Since this Onslaught system was announced i was affraid that it could (and would, if nothing has done to prevent it) happen, and unfortunatelly i was right, in the bloodmoon they aded that turrets near Tako spawn, would be nice if the same was done with Clarence spawns.

Problem with that is we already have too many turrets. we should just make anti OV force fields as previously suggested.

Accidentally bumping into a turret as an OV is NOT fun and basically ruins anyone's chance at completing the daily. this happens even when you are NOT trolling, just forget the exact location of the mostly hidden turrets for a moment and ZAP you're dead!

Your fun should be automatically ruined as an OV if you get near Clarence. Stay away from the Bear!

jennymachx

spinnytop said:

someguywhoplaysgames said:

Or we could have Clarence's PBAOE do 100% health damage to OVs. That would make a decent bandaid.

Yes, that would be an amazing way for OVs to feed people Guardian tokens!

Shouldn't be impossible to disable Guardian token rewards if the OV gets faceplanted in the vicinity of Clarence.

jeeb51

there are MANY opinions/solutions for the issue of players using OV devices to troll/grief or otherwise harass others... as I've said from day 1 in zone is that they should be reported, the ticket WILL get looked at, the matter WILL be dealt with, don't spend you're time in chat arguing with said offender(s) because 99% of the time they're ignoring you anyways, warn others if need, but if you don't put in a ticket or report it, how can it be expected to get fixed. I have some possible solutions, 1) Disable OV's during a holiday event (it wont hurt ANYONE to take time off from squabbling & enjoy the holiday event for a few days), 2) do the OV shield/buff (but make sure to make it so it cant be abused by any player, OV or otherwise), 3) I know this MAY be extreme but I feel giving the OV's a map of their own, with daily missions & goals (you step in that zone, you're flagged for PVP until you leave it, no reasons to gripe), many MMO's do this & it works well & 4) although there IS too many turrets already, maybe MOVE the BH spawn points to turret areas instead... they can move the OV contact & add more turrets so why not move the presents to a more player friendly area. Again I know this will raise certain players temperament no matter what is done, but I feel if all the time & money is spent to make these holiday events, players should be able to enjoy them without becoming OV fodder... just my opinions here, I don't speak for anyone but myself.

steampunker7

While in theory the OV system is not a bad one and by and large seems to have a decent check and balance system in place to prevent abuse (don't attack them, they can't attack you), there does seem to be a loophole that is being exploited by certain...less than mature players that is indeed causing problems for others in the game. Whether this was a limitation in the code or simply an oversight in the long term application of the system I could not say. However, there have been indeed multiple instances of OVers rushing into Clarence battles, getting tagged by AOE attacks not intended for them, and then using that to gank other players trying to fight the big bear. Its frequency, as well as the offenders active refusal to listen when they are asked to not OV around Clarence, points to some definite malicious intent that should be curbed as soon as possible.

So yeah, put me down as a vote for either some form of whitelist to avoid being accidentally flagged for OV pvp or set up the areas around Clarence that nullify OV devices. The only people who would be hurt or upset by that are griefers and, frankly, they are the ones bring it on themselves.

spinnytop

Technically, this isn't griefing of course - people are just exercising their right to hyperbole.

The rules of playing an Onslaught explicitly involve attacking flagged players. Since they have made no effort to change the fact that a player's aoe will flag them to an onslaught villain at any point in time, that means that it is intended that OVs can get players flagged by moving near them while they are aoeing. This is how the game is built, and has remained. I think it would be unjust for any GM to take action against a player for playing the game in the intended manner.

If Cryptic wants to take a stance on this behavior being inappropriate, then they shouldn't have that be expressed through GM actions, as that would be an inherently deceptive way to go about it. Instead, if they decide to do so, it should be done via disabling the ability of any aoe power to flag a player to an OV. You can't just tell people "Do this, these are the rules of the game" and then punish them for following the rules you have set forth.

It'd be like if they added Clarence to BASH, and then GMs started taking action against any pvper who attacked people who were trying to fight Clarence. Millenium City is currently a PvP zone, meaning that if you are in millenium city you need to be aware of the presence of OVs and make sure you don't strike them. You can't just enter a PvP zone and then complain when pvp happens because you didn't observe the game mechanics that are in place.

jennymachx

Technically, on a purely gameplay basis, the OV player is acting in accordance with that they are able to do mechanically ingame when they bring their OV in the middle of Clarence fight.

This goes beyond that. If there's obvious intent on the OV players part to harass players engaged with Clarence with intent to interrupt the fight, it is griefing, plain and simple. Anyone who doesn't choose to be a straight-up jerkface and who is able to understand doing such a thing is something inconsiderate already knows it. If the players are currently focused on bringing Clarence down, why in this situation would they want to engage an OV fight at the same time? It's exploitation of a game design flaw pure and simple. Anyone who's called out for doing that and wants to be deliberately obtuse while using the "technically the game allows for it" excuse doesn't justify the behavior.

I don't expect any GM action against such individuals since "technically" they're using the game mechanics as presented to them and since the necessary safeguards against such behavior aren't currently in place. What I'd hope to see is those safeguards being implemented.

avianos

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell


JonTron GIFs are against the rules, ok then​​

If it contains a word that doesn't pass the profanity filter, yes, they are absolutely against the rules. This should be obvious. -Smackwell.

steampunker7

spinnytop said:

Technically, this isn't griefing of course - people are just exercising their right to hyperbole.

The rules of playing an Onslaught explicitly involve attacking flagged players. Since they have made no effort to change the fact that a player's aoe will flag them to an onslaught villain at any point in time, that means that it is intended that OVs can get players flagged by moving near them while they are aoeing. This is how the game is built, and has remained. I think it would be unjust for any GM to take action against a player for playing the game in the intended manner.

If Cryptic wants to take a stance on this behavior being inappropriate, then they shouldn't have that be expressed through GM actions, as that would be an inherently deceptive way to go about it. Instead, if they decide to do so, it should be done via disabling the ability of any aoe power to flag a player to an OV. You can't just tell people "Do this, these are the rules of the game" and then punish them for following the rules you have set forth.

It'd be like if they added Clarence to BASH, and then GMs started taking action against any pvper who attacked people who were trying to fight Clarence. Millenium City is currently a PvP zone, meaning that if you are in millenium city you need to be aware of the presence of OVs and make sure you don't strike them. You can't just enter a PvP zone and then complain when pvp happens because you didn't observe the game mechanics that are in place.

Your logic is flawed. Millenium City is NOT a pvp zone. It is a zone where pvp can take place if players chose to engage in it. This not a case of non-pvpers running into a pvp zone and complaining. This is a case of pvpers seeking out places they know non-pvpers will be (Clarence battles), getting flagged by aoe effects not intended for them, and then using that to gank the players who didn't want PVP in the first place. That this has the effect of interfering with players trying to run the winter events for tokens makes it griefing and its in the Dev's best interest to stop it.

Your argument, as is the argument of others, boils down to "they shouldn't have been in the way of me swinging my fists." Sorry but your right to swing your fists ends at my nose and I would call into question the motivations of anyone who argues otherwise.