Vanilla Incoming Features/Request for Feedback

frtoaster

khamseenair wrote: »

There was a post from an admin (non STO, can't recall name or game or even which of the numerous threads relating to Vanilla issues that it was in) saying this was done because these boards are only supposed to be viewable by people who can use the test servers. Since the forums can't tell if a guest has access, they rely on you being logged in to check. Apparently most of the other PWE/Cryptic game forums already used this system so I guess they just tagged STOs test server boards in with the same rule. It's a little odd for STO simply because 90% of the time everyone can use it, but still I can see their logic in a bizarre way.

You mean this post?

http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/12580576#Comment_12580576

I don't think he's an admin. At least, if he is, then he wasn't posting with an admin account. Often people claim that something is intended based on nothing but their own suppositions. It's a pet peeve of mine. Does anyone have an actual citation from someone who works for PWE?

protogoth

protogoth wrote: »

If you can make it work right, I don't mind the frame.

I take it back. The frame makes the whole page jump around and take too long to load.

where2r1

frtoaster wrote: »

I just tested this, and I think it's happening with all URLs.

Thank you for testing. I am glad someone understands all this better than I do.

Yes. You are correct...all three of the first set of posts open up in new browser windows (where I am not signed in).
And all three of the links you "wrapped" in BBCodes do not..it stays in the litte ARC browser window.

All I know is: if one uses this ARC window to look at the forum... they need to do something about all the links that open in other (not signed into ARC) windows.

khamseenair

frtoaster wrote: »

khamseenair wrote: »

There was a post from an admin (non STO, can't recall name or game or even which of the numerous threads relating to Vanilla issues that it was in) saying this was done because these boards are only supposed to be viewable by people who can use the test servers. Since the forums can't tell if a guest has access, they rely on you being logged in to check. Apparently most of the other PWE/Cryptic game forums already used this system so I guess they just tagged STOs test server boards in with the same rule. It's a little odd for STO simply because 90% of the time everyone can use it, but still I can see their logic in a bizarre way.

You mean this post?

http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/12580576#Comment_12580576

I don't think he's an admin. At least, if he is, then he wasn't posting with an admin account. Often people claim that something is intended based on nothing but their own suppositions. It's a pet peeve of mine. Does anyone have an actual citation from someone who works for PWE?

Not the post I was talking about, the one I read definitely had the little "admin" title instead of Arc User. Trying to track it down but the search function on Vanilla is pretty crap.

khamseenair

frtoaster wrote: »

where2r1 wrote: »

But now the problem is when someone uses a link inside their post that points back to a URL that starts with "http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/......." (directly linking to the forums). That link will open up in a totally separate browser window. In the new window I am not signed in.

I just tested this, and I think it's happening with all URLs.

http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/1193222/vanilla-incoming-features-request-for-feedback
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1193222/vanilla-incoming-features-request-for-feedback
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message_authentication_code

But it doesn't happen if I wrap the URLs with BBCode url tags.

http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/1193222/vanilla-incoming-features-request-for-feedback
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1193222/vanilla-incoming-features-request-for-feedback
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message_authentication_code

When you inspect the element, you can see somebody has decided it was a good idea to add _blank to the end of URLs, which forces a new tab/window when clicked. BBCode uses different parsing so it isn't affected by it. *Note to self* put all links in BBCode tags from now on...

frtoaster

khamseenair wrote: »

frtoaster wrote: »

khamseenair wrote: »

There was a post from an admin (non STO, can't recall name or game or even which of the numerous threads relating to Vanilla issues that it was in) saying this was done because these boards are only supposed to be viewable by people who can use the test servers. Since the forums can't tell if a guest has access, they rely on you being logged in to check. Apparently most of the other PWE/Cryptic game forums already used this system so I guess they just tagged STOs test server boards in with the same rule. It's a little odd for STO simply because 90% of the time everyone can use it, but still I can see their logic in a bizarre way.

You mean this post?

http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/12580576#Comment_12580576

I don't think he's an admin. At least, if he is, then he wasn't posting with an admin account. Often people claim that something is intended based on nothing but their own suppositions. It's a pet peeve of mine. Does anyone have an actual citation from someone who works for PWE?

Not the post I was talking about, the one I read definitely had the little "admin" title instead of Arc User. Trying to track it down but the search function on Vanilla is pretty crap.

I wish Trendy would clarify this for us, and maybe get it reversed. It makes little sense to me as a policy. They're not preventing people from learning about the changes on the test servers, since people will just post that information elsewhere. And except for special circumstances, the STO test servers are open to subscribers and non-subscribers alike. So what exactly does this policy achieve other than annoy us?

khamseenair wrote: »

frtoaster wrote: »

where2r1 wrote: »

But now the problem is when someone uses a link inside their post that points back to a URL that starts with "http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/......." (directly linking to the forums). That link will open up in a totally separate browser window. In the new window I am not signed in.

I just tested this, and I think it's happening with all URLs.

http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/1193222/vanilla-incoming-features-request-for-feedback
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1193222/vanilla-incoming-features-request-for-feedback
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message_authentication_code

But it doesn't happen if I wrap the URLs with BBCode url tags.

http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/1193222/vanilla-incoming-features-request-for-feedback
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1193222/vanilla-incoming-features-request-for-feedback
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message_authentication_code

When you inspect the element, you can see somebody has decided it was a good idea to add _blank to the end of URLs, which forces a new tab/window when clicked. BBCode uses different parsing so it isn't affected by it. *Note to self* put all links in BBCode tags from now on...

I don't know whether PWE or Vanilla is responsible, but honestly, a lot of things about the design and implementation of these forums are questionable. Why add target="_blank" to the anchors? It's as if they're going out of their way to break established navigational conventions.

where2r1

OK.. from MSIE as a separate window via perfectworld/vanillaforums.com (not inside ARC). I can click on URLs and they open in a new tab and I do not lose my Arc sign in.

Unfortunately, if they want this to happen in the ARC overlay box....it is not working. All that the ARC window is doing is calling up my main browser (Chrome) and opening that.

I have NO IDEA which browser is running in that ARC thing....but it does not seem capable of opening new tabs...so it is kicking it over to the default browser. Maybe someone needs to tell the Vanilla folks it can't be set up like this.

What a dysfunctional browser there is in ARC. I can't even figure out where the URL is to forward a link to share a post. I can not use any options on the right mouse button (undo, copy, paste....). It does not do spell check in that window, either.

My normal browser is Google Chrome....and it doesn't go too well with STO Forums and ARC sign ins.
Is the only browser that works on Vanilla Forums is MSIE??? It is slow as heck!!!!

It must be the cookie settings on MSIE....but not changing it on Chrome...I use that more often.

comrademoco

@yetweallfalldown would it possible to also get a pwe staff and moderator list with some info from them???

I think this would help to get to know the moderators and staff while allowing the community to identify them much better??? just a thought. ​​

krittycat

comrademoco wrote: »

@yetweallfalldown would it possible to also get a pwe staff and moderator list with some info from them???

I think this would help to get to know the moderators and staff while allowing the community to identify them much better??? just a thought.

When I worked as a moderator on PWI, this was something we did for every new moderator. We had to submit a paragraph describing ourselves, and the admin posted all of them in a thread together, so that people could get to know us at a glance.

I think that'd be awesome - it would allow everyone to get to know each other.

where2r1 wrote: »

OK.. from MSIE as a separate window via perfectworld/vanillaforums.com (not inside ARC). I can click on URLs and they open in a new tab and I do not lose my Arc sign in.

Unfortunately, if they want this to happen in the ARC overlay box....it is not working. All that the ARC window is doing is calling up my main browser (Chrome) and opening that.

I have NO IDEA which browser is running in that ARC thing....but it does not seem capable of opening new tabs...so it is kicking it over to the default browser. Maybe someone needs to tell the Vanilla folks it can't be set up like this.

What a dysfunctional browser there is in ARC. I can't even figure out where the URL is to forward a link to share a post. I can not use any options on the right mouse button (undo, copy, paste....). It does not do spell check in that window, either.

My normal browser is Google Chrome....and it doesn't go too well with STO Forums and ARC sign ins.
Is the only browser that works on Vanilla Forums is MSIE??? It is slow as heck!!!!

It must be the cookie settings on MSIE....but not changing it on Chrome...I use that more often.

The Arc client uses Chromium, a derivative of Chrome, for its internet browsing. It's not intended to open things in tabs - it's a very rudimentary browser, for minimal browsing.

Are you seeing the log-in issues on the full version of Chrome, or just when you open a tab outside of the Arc client?​​

frtoaster

where2r1 wrote: »

Unfortunately, if they want this to happen in the ARC overlay box....it is not working. All that the ARC window is doing is calling up my main browser (Chrome) and opening that.

I have NO IDEA which browser is running in that ARC thing....but it does not seem capable of opening new tabs...so it is kicking it over to the default browser. Maybe someone needs to tell the Vanilla folks it can't be set up like this.

What a dysfunctional browser there is in ARC. I can't even figure out where the URL is to forward a link to share a post. I can not use any options on the right mouse button (undo, copy, paste....). It does not do spell check in that window, either.

Are you trying to use the Arc client for general web browsing? I would seriously advise against that, because Arc requires administrative privileges to run and installs a vulnerable version of Flash.

http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/1190680/arc-installs-vulnerable-version-of-flash
http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/1190869/arc-client-insists-on-installing-outdated-flash-plugin
http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/1190971/allow-non-administrators-to-run-arc

It's probably a good thing that Arc is opening up those links in your default web browser, as that is probably more secure.

where2r1 wrote: »

My normal browser is Google Chrome....and it doesn't go too well with STO Forums and ARC sign ins.
Is the only browser that works on Vanilla Forums is MSIE??? It is slow as heck!!!!

Other people use Chrome to view these forums. If you describe your problem more precisely, maybe someone who uses Chrome can help you.

where2r1

frtoaster wrote: »

Are you trying to use the Arc client for general web browsing?

No, I just use ARC strictly for reading and commenting on ARC forums.

I am not even sure how to "browse" off the forums on the silly thing, there is no navigation bar.
Even with a link inside the posts, always opens up in another browser window, anyways.
So, no, no browsing the internet with ARC. My "regular" browsing is done on Chrome.

frtoaster wrote: »

Are you trying to use the Arc client for general web browsing? I would seriously advise against that, because Arc requires administrative privileges to run and installs a vulnerable version of Flash.

All I know about Flash and Chrome is: it uses a built in version of it.

So, as far as I know, Flash is NOT installing....it is already there.
Is this what you are seeing as the "vulnerability"?

"Adobe Flash Player is directly integrated with Google Chrome and enabled by default. Available updates for Adobe Flash Player are automatically included in Chrome system updates."

https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/108086?hl=en

Now, IF ARC is using some form of Chrome (Chromium) as the browser, it is not allowing me to access the browser options.... plug-ins or functions, either. It is all locked out....even turning on spell check!!!

salacnar070890

I like the idea for Animated .gifs in signature but also bring back BBcode

where2r1

krittycat wrote: »

The Arc client uses Chromium, a derivative of Chrome, for its internet browsing. It's not intended to open things in tabs - it's a very rudimentary browser, for minimal browsing.

Are you seeing the log-in issues on the full version of Chrome, or just when you open a tab outside of the Arc client?​​

Last time I bothered trying to sign on with the full version of Chrome on my computer, it would keep opening another ARC bar, then ask me to sign on again, then another Arc bar (until I have a stack of them) and NEVER show I was logged in.

I no longer try to sign in with Chrome. I just read the Forums, navigate to the "STO General Discussion" folder manually. Hence: problem can not see Test Server folders because they are blocked if I am not signed in.

(And, again, a big Thanks to comrademoco for keeping the Armada info up to date in a different thread)

+++++++++++++++++++++++

On my Chromebook:

It does show me as signed in, but every time I move to a new page on the Forums, the browser shows I have lost my ARC sign in. In return, Vanilla Forum acts like I am not signed in at all. Which means I lose all the filters and I end up getting ALL the comments from every game, or sends me to the default ARC screen (if I am looking at Tribble posts).

Though, it will show me as being signed back in after I hit the "refresh" on the page. I could turn on "refresh page every time I visit" option, that might correct that. Or it could just be some sort of general "lag" in response from the ARC system servers and/or Vanilla Forums....I don't know how all that works.

I can not remember if I tried opening a Forum link in a new tab and if that knocks my ARC sign in out all together on the new tab.

Last time I tried to sign in using Chromebook....ARC Defender sent me 2 pins for access....neither worked and then threatened to lock me out if I tried any more. I switched to my computer used the ARC window, signed in without an issue.

Why mess with all this stuff...I just want to READ and COMMENT. Not troubleshoot the problems on every computer and browser all the time. After all, isn't THAT what forums are for?

Why all this ARC baggage?

eldarth

where2r1 wrote: »

Why all this ARC baggage?

Advertising.

​​

where2r1

frtoster speaks of "security" vulnerability from flash. Frankly, I feel signing into a third party forum provider with the same credentials and password as my do my game is even worse.

I would MUCH PREFER making up a totally UNRELATED user name and password for the Vanilla Forums.

nrglg

where2r1 wrote: »

frtoster speaks of "security" vulnerability from flash. Frankly, I feel signing into a third party forum provider with the same credentials and password as my do my game is even worse.

I would MUCH PREFER making up a totally UNRELATED user name and password for the Vanilla Forums.

It's hashed and probably has salt as well to obfuscate your password's hash. What this means is, relax.

Edit: Actually, thinking about it, they probably don't have your log in credentials. They are probably using a unique identifier key that is linked to PWE to keep you logged in. Most bigger companies I would think, would do that for user privacy. So basically, you would log in through arcgames, then when you come on here, it would request user credentials and if they exist, it would link them through a key to identify who you are. Then the forum handles the rest from there, like posting permissions, etc.

--
People, if you aren't that familiar with security, please stop talking about it like you understand it. I actually worked in that field for some time, I studied about it more than I was in it, but still. I get laughs when I see overreactions to these kinds of things. Like the vulnerability in flash which, for instance, would only affect you if you visited somewhere in Arc that had a compiled flash program that used the vulnerability. It wouldn't affect your normal web browsing activities.

​​

protogoth

I also note, as a result of this new forced-into-frames business, that I have to memorize which tab has what in it if I have more than a few tabs open in the same window which are all forum tabs, because when I hover my mouse over them, they all say "Arc Games" with no indication of so much as which forum the page in the tab is, let alone the title of the thread. Unsatisfactory.

frtoaster

where2r1 wrote: »

All I know about Flash and Chrome is: it uses a built in version of it.

So, as far as I know, Flash is NOT installing....it is already there.
Is this what you are seeing as the "vulnerability"?

"Adobe Flash Player is directly integrated with Google Chrome and enabled by default. Available updates for Adobe Flash Player are automatically included in Chrome system updates."

https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/108086?hl=en

Chrome comes with its own version of Flash.

where2r1 wrote: »

Now, IF ARC is using some form of Chrome (Chromium) as the browser, it is not allowing me to access the browser options.... plug-ins or functions, either. It is all locked out....even turning on spell check!!!

I don't know whether the Arc browser is based on Chromium or not, but Adobe says that Chromium does not come with Flash. You have to install it separately.

https://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player/kb/flash-player-chromium.html

Arc installs its own Flash plugin, presumably for its own use, but that plugin also shows up in Firefox.

where2r1 wrote: »

frtoster speaks of "security" vulnerability from flash. Frankly, I feel signing into a third party forum provider with the same credentials and password as my do my game is even worse.

I would MUCH PREFER making up a totally UNRELATED user name and password for the Vanilla Forums.

nrglg wrote: »

It's hashed and probably has salt as well to obfuscate your password's hash. What this means is, relax.

Edit: Actually, thinking about it, they probably don't have your log in credentials. They are probably using a unique identifier key that is linked to PWE to keep you logged in. Most bigger companies I would think, would do that for user privacy. So basically, you would log in through arcgames, then when you come on here, it would request user credentials and if they exist, it would link them through a key to identify who you are. Then the forum handles the rest from there, like posting permissions, etc.

Nrglg is correct that Vanilla does not have our login names or passwords. (Vanilla does have our email addresses, which can be used in lieu of a login name to sign in. I don't necessarily consider this a huge risk, but I find it odd that PWE cares about one but not the other.) When you visit www.arcgames.com/en/forums, PWE tells Vanilla whether you are signed in to arcgames.com using Vanilla's SSO process. The technical details are explained in the links below.

http://docs.vanillaforums.com/features/sso/
http://blog.vanillaforums.com/help/vanilla-jsconnect-single-signon-on/
http://blog.vanillaforums.com/jsconnect-technical-documentation/
http://blog.vanillaforums.com/jsconnect-technical-documentation-for-embedded-sso/

nrglg wrote: »

People, if you aren't that familiar with security, please stop talking about it like you understand it. I actually worked in that field for some time, I studied about it more than I was in it, but still. I get laughs when I see overreactions to these kinds of things. Like the vulnerability in flash which, for instance, would only affect you if you visited somewhere in Arc that had a compiled flash program that used the vulnerability. It wouldn't affect your normal web browsing activities.

Maybe, I wasn't clear, but I was asking whether he was trying to use Arc to browse arbitrary web pages. I'm not sure if that's even possible in Arc, but I was advising him against trying it. It's probably a good thing that Arc doesn't open links posted on the forums within Arc itself, but instead passes them to the user's default browser. I do not know if Arc allows the user to click through arbitrary links elsewhere.

The vulnerable version of Flash installed by Arc would affect a user's normal web browsing in a specific set of circumstances. If the user runs Firefox (or one of its variants), hasn't installed Flash separately, has installed Arc, and enables Arc's Flash plugin in Firefox, then the user runs the risk of executing malicious Flash code on arbitrary web pages.

where2r1

Thanks all. I will study the articles on security a bit later when I feel more like doing so.

I have found a workable interface for the Vanilla Forums.

Since I can log in and have a stable connection on it: I have dedicated the MSIE browser to STO Forums ONLY and set STO as the home page. I have turned off animations and pictures a while ago....which is a wonderful relief. I have, also, disabled what ever was labeled as "Flash" in the add-on or plug in location in the Options. I have never downloaded Flash, so I am going to assume it is a questionable old copy or the ARC copy running on here.

Sorry, those of you who have placed loads of effort on your siggies and avatars and clever memes.

I will browse FB, Twitter and internet via Chrome. And make sure any ARC software is deleted along with wiping out cookies every time I log out over there.

Again, thank you for spending some time trying to help me understand all this stuff.

To: PWE / Cryptic / Vanilla Forum: hope you can put this forum into decent order....sooner rather than later.

P.S...I just noticed this. My name is Mary and I am definitely a "she".

khamseenair

Since you introduced the forced redirect yesterday I'm having issues getting to the 'first unread post' now. I have a block in place to stop your redirect (because to heck with using a rubbish embedded forum when you could just add the required links to the non embedded forum which functions better), but something about it's introduction, or something you did at the same time has caused the #latest to no longer work even on perfectworld.vanillaforums.com

Please, stop doing things without testing to see if they're working first. I'd just gotten to the stage where I didn't completely hate the new forums. ​​

raj011

What happened to the arrow you use to get when someone posted a new comment and when you click on the arrow it takes you to the new comment? Please bring that back?

gulberat

raj011 wrote: »

What happened to the arrow you use to get when someone posted a new comment and when you click on the arrow it takes you to the new comment? Please bring that back?

They broke it with the forced redirect to ARC. The only way to fix that is to use AdBlock with the filter nrglg posted.

nrglg

gulberat wrote: »

raj011 wrote: »

What happened to the arrow you use to get when someone posted a new comment and when you click on the arrow it takes you to the new comment? Please bring that back?

They broke it with the forced redirect to ARC. The only way to fix that is to use AdBlock with the filter nrglg posted.

Or to use Asterelle's forum enhancement extension (in my sig) which now doesn't seem to be crashing anymore after a bug fix. It also allows you to still use arcgames.com links, which blocking the file from my fix does not because mine was a blunt, not proper, fix.​​

tehbubbaloo

its kinda hard to believe that people would willingly use these forums without asterelles enhancements​​

nrglg

tehbubbaloo wrote: »

its kinda hard to believe that people would willingly use these forums without asterelles enhancements

I know your comment was rhetorical, but I'm going to respond to it as if it was literal. There are four reasons I can think of...

A ) People who don't care about the forum (those who play game more)
B ) People who don't know about it or are scared of 3rd party anything (ignorance)
C ) People who like to complain about issues and do nothing about it when given the ability (I can think of one, now banned, person like this)
D ) People who aren't computer savvy and anything beyond the norm confuses/angers them (plenty of people I've met like this)​​

nucaeks

The enhancement works really well and makes the forum nice to read. Anyone not using it should start! (◕‿◕✿)​​

daveyny

I'm one of those B & D options persons, plus I'm using IE-11 and most of the posts I've seen seem to deal mostly with Chrome.
These are Their forums. The way it work now is annoying but I'm willing to wait to see if things improve eventually.
Not having any real knowledge in the way add-ons work, I'm very reluctant to go fiddling around with things, with the possibility of me making it worse.

nucaeks

daveyny wrote: »

I'm one of those B & D options persons, plus I'm using IE-11 and most of the posts I've seen seem to deal mostly with Chrome.
These are Their forums. The way the work now is annoying but I'm willing to wait to see if things improve eventually.
Not having any real knowledge in the way add-ons work, I'm very reluctant to go fiddling around with things, with the possibility of me make it worse.

Its pretty easy on Firefox and I think they have a IE version too. I think a quickstart manual or something might be a good idea though.​​

ovenusarmanio

It would be nice if we could get the ability to bookmark individual posts and not just threads.

Also it would be cool if we could get bbcode for twitter and soundcloud. https://blog.soundcloud.com/2009/07/28/soundcloud-player-in-forums-5-step-guide-for-soundcloud-bb-code/

Twitter especially since you guys are on that, but soundcloud could be fun for users to share music.​​

khamseenair

ovenusarmanio wrote: »

It would be nice if we could get the ability to bookmark individual posts and not just threads.

If you click on the time the post was made under the persons avatar, it takes you to that comment (not quite like vB where you got it on it's own, but it does still take you to that post in the thread). Then you just hit bookmark. ​​