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i still believe hybrid GWF is the best high end pve build...
pandapaul
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 424 Bounty Hunter
So from my testing... destroyer has a "very small" advantage over a Hybrid GWF in single target dps.. Hybrid however has a massive advantage in AoE and is tankier.
Here is a screenshot of ACT in Tiamat.. me as a hybrid GWF.. this was running with a 20k+ GS group and if you look at the time under 11 minutes to clear you can see it was a very high dps group..
Here is a screenshot of ACT in Tiamat.. me as a hybrid GWF.. this was running with a 20k+ GS group and if you look at the time under 11 minutes to clear you can see it was a very high dps group..
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Hey Paul,
can you post your build details? Feats, powers, stat, equip, companions, ecc ecc...
I'm a Destroyer build fan, Lazalia style. If you can explain us your GWF hybrid version we can try on preview and test it.
Tyvm
Jhoz
Proud Officer of Ordo Draconis, DDO Italian Elite Guild
now up on Neverwinter Online, member of Ordo Obscuri Domini, Italian Guild
yes woot go a bigger pic to work!!!!
I'll try to guess:
hybrid destroyer-sentinel. You get sentinel tree up to intimidation, along with powerful challenge and may be unstoppable recovery as first feat (you are forced to get it or the deflect feat).
Steely defense on heroic.
Destroyer tree with upper feats great weapon focus, disciple of war and grudge style for IBS buff.
Last point may be focused destroyer or SoTS?
Rotation could be daring shout-CAGI-IBS?
With high power and Pvorpal. Dex belt for crit may be?
And AP gain neck artifact. Ferocity to buff sure strike?
You lower the mobs HP with DS (mark)-->CAGI (DPS+buff, group the mobs)--->AOE IBS on low HP mobs with Grudge style+CAGI buff.
You also gain a ton of HP if you AOE kill with IBS+AP gain neck.
Crit can still be high with such build, right gear and may be weapon master slotted. And destroyer since you hit AoE.
Roughly. My guess.
I just finished my 80 linu's favor in Tialag, my highest dmg was 30m in 3 rounds, 25m in 2 rounds, using always IBS+RS+Flourish (full single target) IBS did up to 600k and Sure Strike crit up to 100k per hit.
In summary, it's more about playstyle, if you like to melt mobs using AoE encounters go for Hybrid and you will have fun, if you prefer single target go Destroyer.
Just tested hybrid build.
From my test, with my equip and my playstyle, hybrid build is the best build on trash mobs but on single target, full Destroyer's damage is not comparable with hybrid build.
Overall i lose DPS.
This is my thought
Jhoz
Proud Officer of Ordo Draconis, DDO Italian Elite Guild
now up on Neverwinter Online, member of Ordo Obscuri Domini, Italian Guild
though process I hear from people that go full damage-no HP in PvP. Just because you can kill/outdps random people doesn't mean your doing exceptionally well.
Tiamat is also a very bad choice for research. First off you will easier get more damage if your hunting for it, that is not the objective of Tiamat. If I focus on standing on one for the 4 spawnpoints in the cleric phase and all I want to do it "aggro-tagging" the mobs on spawn and keep them occupied - I'm doing the best thing. If I run around trying to do as much damage as possible with e.g. Spinning Strike, Wicked Strike and multi-target IBS hits - I'm doing more damage, but im missing the objective.
Another point is that you easily outdps people by not zerging. If the zerg goes from black to white and you go to white (the easiest head to solo for GWF) you will hit the head non-stop and gain way more dps than somebody with equal gear/skills/playstyle just because he spends time communting and as we all know At-Wills are were GWF damage comes from. So hitting a head nonstop will ensure you "most DPS" or "highest points". That your not speeding up the process of killing tiamat or not completing the objective faster is obvious.
Another point and the main reason to choose between Hybrid and SM/Singletarget build is the build focus.
Hybrid kills mobs faster as jhozam stated if your running with medium to high gs people you will be very usefull. If your running with SWs and CWs of your caliber your useless. SM/Singletarget kills what SW/CW dont instantly burst or AoE down. Therefore in a lategame situation the SM/Singletarget focused build is simply superior.
Oh I forgot that in Module 2 and 3 GWF was easily able to stand in every red circle. Playing mindlessly and without thought due to Deep Gash and later the simple damage that came from encounters. For high level GWFs nothing changed in playstyle - since they always dodged red circles - they never got hit by "draco-hands".
However, lower level GWFs that heavily relied on these overpowered mechanics now face a different world. Suddenly they have to keep a good eye on their stamina, they have to dodge red areas and they have problems delivering the damage through at-wills.
Lastly they struggle keeping up and watching their buffs: AoW, Focused Destroyer and others.
Using their big hitting daily or IBS at the right time and managing their Unstoppable for max uptime. This is frustrating for many people, a sudden change for them.
Playing Hybrid gives you back some of that strength and suddenly red circles aren't "as scary" anymore.
Lastly by Power stacking Hybrid is essentially wasting potential better used stats, just to burst Intimidation Damage. Around 13-14k is the point were gaining more Power doesnt do a huge thing. Sure you can get to 15k maybe even 16k with a really specific setup, however you waste what could have ment more crit, more recovery or actual defensive stats.
SM/Singletarget doesn't have to be squishy. Im nowhere gear-capped and I got my 27k HP, 40%+ DR and over 20% Deflect. Lifesteal is nothing I need to talk about.
The only point were SM might have issues if he initiates the fight:
Runs in -> Daring Shout -> Unstoppable -> WMS tagging -> Spinning Strike
If you take to much damage while using Daring Shout and before you get into Unstoppable you can die.
That rarely happens to me in ESoT and ELoL aka the new content, but only when im playing stupid myself.
If anybody has a problem with that just don't go with 10 feat points in Instigator and take them in Sentinel for
the Unstoppable healing along with some more defensive stats you'll be fine.
Sincerely BlackyLuke
Laz: I do agree Destroyer can do more single target dps.. however I believe the difference is ALOT closer than what most people think.. daring shout and come and get it still do very very high single target DPS.. and in my build both make IBS crits looks like small.. the gap here is a lot closer than most think and when im running dungeons with new people.. they are shocked what sort of DPS my GWF puts out both in AoE and single target. How much dps in Tiamat can vary a lot depending on how fast it goes.. But I pretty much am always in the 20-30M range
BlackyLuke: Why is comparing dps in Tiamat stupid.. it is primarily single target dps with phases of AoE? I don't think its stupid at all as whether you like it or not DPS is the most important aspect of this game easily.. This build is a lot more powerful than what you think.. I recently ran with some other destroyer GWFs with GS around 25k.. I embaressed them in both AoE and single target.. they chose to switch builds after seeing my GWF and are having much better results.
Stacking power is NEVER a waste.. you get as much of a dps bonus from 14k+ as u do at 8k.. and by that I don't mean a %.. I mean actual raw dps.. stacking power is ALWAYS the best option and once your stats in other areas are close to maxed out.. stacking power is really the only feasible thing to do. My build isn't losing in any area stat wise.. its rock solid.. 30k hp 48% DR 24% deflect.. 14% life steal.. combine that with the 15k power.. this build is amazing.. once my buffs stack up I have hit 21.8k power before.. hit me up in game sometime and I can show you this builds true potential....
edit: nevermind. my old intimidation build is dead
Call Cupcake he doesn't deserve the title Valiant 2.0 anymore thats your's now.
Tiamat is a horrible place to judge builds. Each run is different based on composition of the raid ie.. you could be a dps monster with a group cursed with low geared leeches or a dps bust because of CW and DC blowing mobs all over. Intimidation works well for trash but peters out at boss. After you blow your 2 encounters you feel useless,slow swinging your at wills building next to no determination and praying for you cool downs to hurry up. One thing that is good about Tiamat is that you can try out different encounters against tough *** mobs and see how well they work. I have gone back to Destroyer build since the recent changes and while not quite not where the GWF Destroyer was preMOD 5 it is close (still think they need to up the base damage as they nerfed it way to much). I run with Leap, Flourish, and IBS for Tiamat fight (Leap works well to avoid breaths on the platform just be in the air as well as getting out of circles around the clerics and not to mention a little immunity in the middle of tough packs of devils).
Firstly valiant was a good friend of mine and we used to test and run dungeons a lot together but that was 12 months ago now
Now people talk about the buffs that destroyer get
You realise the buffs you listed effect.. I get most of them as well with my build.. Just not the buffs from destroyer cap stone.. So your reply is misleading.. Secondly the encounters I use can hit from 50-500k.. Both come and get it and daring shout hit much harder than ibs.. Now puts adds around me and I can drop 3M dps with in a couple of seconds...
And Tiamat can be misleading... But what isnt misleading is topping the dps chart every single Tiamat... Even when running with the elite where we almost burn it in one phase.. It can't be coincident that I top the chart 100% of the time
would help us redo and test it to see whether everything is absolute BS or true
Ohh i am very sure that what he said is true
Btw I didn't found as a best idea trying to be top DPS on Tiamat, rather always trying to buff ppl dmg in heads phase. 100% or more dps for everyone who is clever enought to stand in my aoe = win in most cases ;-)
Sorry for my poor english
Tinuvien
This is interesting I have this build in mind before mod5 is released but got discouraged due to Intimidation nerfs
but its intriguing and tempting to use...
Same here, if you didn't knew I was in the same guild like you and I spent hours theory crafting and running CN/VT/MC with him, Cupcake, Athena or Nyx. My point is Valiant was looked upon by a large number of players simply, because he farmend/spend enough money to have r10s/perfects which was the cap back then. Cupcake beat him in tanking/damage dealing even when he ran R8s. What im trying to say his gear level was huge and he was a very good player. Valiant understood dungeon mechanics and the use of his kit and his class very well, however his build was not overwhelming at all!
This is my last statement for this discussion, you just seem to be the same case. I respect you and im kinda sad your not in my timezone so we don't really play much together, but w/e.
I just don't know why you think you are capable of making a statement like that when
A. You don't play with me so how do you know my build/playstyle is underwhelming.. Specially when everyone else that does play with me says the complete opposite
B. You seem to hold a grudge against anyone who isn't playing Laz's build.. Then when someone posts something different you just automatically become aggressive towards them
You are better off actually running with me before you make such silly statements to be honest
laz build/ panda build wtf?
so if first claims it on the forum, then he is the BUILD MASTER SUPREME or someth like that
either way, "your build" it's OP indeed.
35% out of 14k / 17k/ 21k power its someth .
Ok I'm aware who you are in game now.. And.. I believe we only ran a couple of dungeons months ago.. And from memory at the time our build/gear/dps was quite similar
Now I want to make a point at what valiant stood for.. He did more for GWF than almost anyone in this game.. He was active when the GWF was considered unviable.. I spoke to him about this.. He wanted to build a GWF that people could look upto.. And he did that.. What he did help keep the class alive.. I don't think you give him as much credit as he deserves
Now secondly.. Yes we used to be guildies but from what I understand your negative attitude towards other players resulted in you being removed from the guild.. The same attitude is here on the forum.. I never had an issue with you at all either.. But for some reason you feel the need to conflict about things..
The build I run is VERY good and can compete with any GWF pve build I have no doubt. Yes my build is more about "burst" dps than sustained dps but in pve most the content favours burst dps.. Even Tiamat does.. In fact there is very little content designed for sustained dps..
Now I'm sure laz's build is very good I never said otherwise.. But isnt it nice to see gwfs having more than one good build available?? And that there are gwfs theory crafting these builds? That's a positive.. Or would you prefer a cookie cutter for all builds?
I spend a lot of time in game talking to other gwfs about advice for their build.. If I see a GWF that I think laz's build would be better suited I point them too it.. Believe it or not both builds share a lot of similar traits.. Like maxing crit with crit sev and vorpal..
I'm still open to do a run so you can see my build in action.. But it's upto you all good.
You got me hooked, pls put some images with gear and a link to build as i;m rly curios how this build looks like, plus skills/features used:).
I liked to play intimidation as hybrid for PVE and while i was doing pretty good a SW could easily double my dmg in eLoL, so lately i;ve found that i do very well both pve/pvp full sentinel build acting as a buffer/burst-er, thanks to Marks/DT set and Vanguard Banner , but you seem to do more dmg than a SW so i want to learn.
too bad that the build you are playin right now its because of me, if it weren't for me the intimidation build would never exist, but who cares about that? when i stood on forum posting and ragin on feedback on how it should be, no one cared for the build.
and now? this is what i get? i get no praise from you, but you praise valiant? come on.
just praise me a little you kno' ?
or maybe i should've done a post about the build, or did i already done that.. well i got shadowed by others so no one would remember me. but it's okay.
hail Valiant.
either way, i am just joking what i said above, but i really was the one that made the intimidation build viable with the feedback from the ptr forum.
hail you. nope. just kidding. hail me!!
I made the intimidation build
NO NO NO
you said it was a troll build
I'm just not happy with the results. Yes I do overall more damage because Intimidation is a superb trash cleaner and the massive aoe will do the job, but my IBS and sure strike hit like a wet noodle in the wind. I got used to 200k easy crits in dungeons after a good, nice buildup, and I just can't be satisfied with any other result that's 75% less.
It's a matter of playstyle. Hybrid isn't bad at all, it's just very different. I believe my job is to eliminate elite mobs and bosses as quickly as I can and let the cw's clear the trash and cc the mobs. Hybrid is still no match to destroyer in single target though. I know we ran and the difference was rather minor, but we should run a few more times with ACT on, I'd like to analyse it further.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance