Ok I'm aware who you are in game now.. And.. I believe we only ran a couple of dungeons months ago.. And from memory at the time our build/gear/dps was quite similar
Now I want to make a point at what valiant stood for.. He did more for GWF than almost anyone in this game.. He was active when the GWF was considered unviable.. I spoke to him about this.. He wanted to build a GWF that people could look upto.. And he did that.. What he did help keep the class alive.. I don't think you give him as much credit as he deserves
Now secondly.. Yes we used to be guildies but from what I understand your negative attitude towards other players resulted in you being removed from the guild.. The same attitude is here on the forum.. I never had an issue with you at all either.. But for some reason you feel the need to conflict about things..
The build I run is VERY good and can compete with any GWF pve build I have no doubt. Yes my build is more about "burst" dps than sustained dps but in pve most the content favours burst dps.. Even Tiamat does.. In fact there is very little content designed for sustained dps..
Now I'm sure laz's build is very good I never said otherwise.. But isnt it nice to see gwfs having more than one good build available?? And that there are gwfs theory crafting these builds? That's a positive.. Or would you prefer a cookie cutter for all builds?
I spend a lot of time in game talking to other gwfs about advice for their build.. If I see a GWF that I think laz's build would be better suited I point them too it.. Believe it or not both builds share a lot of similar traits.. Like maxing crit with crit sev and vorpal..
I'm still open to do a run so you can see my build in action.. But it's upto you all good.
Okay. Usually at this point I wouldn't even bother talking anymore.
Were drifting to far into ad hominem.
I completely understand what Val deserves as credit, but then again right now GWF is considered weak and is he the guy who is active?
Valiant got me to start GWF, after I was fed up with playing OP CW for 1 year. I understood it, okay?
My "negative attitude towards other players" as you described it looked like this:
- Im officer in BL.
- Other officers and I recruit new people.
- Im making trial runs with new people.
- Some are good -> I make them full member.
- Some are bad -> I give them more time as trial and advise them on builds or ask other officers for help. I run dungeons to farm their new gear. I give them tips. Farm CN with them.
- "bad players" are in the guild for 2-3 weeks. I make another trial. They still do the same mistakes (gameplay wise, not only in gear).
- I decide these players dont make the requirement. -> Kick.
Problem was that I kicked ppl that other officers were close friends with and some had the idea that getting more members is more important than the quality. Since Black Lotus "changed" their view on recruitment, it is nothing for me.
I got invites to come back and stuff like that, but I don't want that since I joined the guild, because of friends I had in there: They all left the game by now. So the hardcore theme of the guild was everything that held me so far.
By the way, if I was kicked for "negative attitude" I wonder why @dubonbacon is an officer now? This guy death threads people who enter Tiamat with less than 16k GS.
I never said that Intimidation build is "bad". I think if it fits ones playstyle that makes it perfect. I just gave my opinion that Single Target/SM is superior. If you wanna call it Lazalias build, fine. I don't care who made it honestly. I just think its the objectively right thought and theorycraft behind it.
I prefer a basic foundation of build that is considered as a frame. For example using AoW in PvE. Then I encourage people to find a personal flavor within their build. Mostly graduating between how glasscannon or how tanky you wanna be. When you stay efficient while doing that, which is easily possible: Hell Yeah!
Yes I need to conflict things! Always! Thats a basic idea I believe in. Even if somebody (even I) created the hardest piece of work, I will question it! That is the way to improve and this doesn't apply to the game itself, we always have to ask and demand answers. We need to critizise and discuss!
Now look at your title. Thats what I "attacked" in my posts. I don't think your build is the best.
Then I "attack" your build, I nowhere attack you as a person. I wish I knew you better, but even if nothing would change here!
If people take my critique (and I know its harsh and direct most times) personal, that is not my fault.
I don't have to defend myself for that. Yet I do for the sake of understanding. We're all GWF players, we all like this class.
I wan't every GWF to enjoy it as much as you and I do, thats why I theorycraft and I specifically point out whats the downsite or the error in builds that are public here on the forums.
Your last point is really good, yes you run vorpal and a high crit value. Neverwinter has it's limits. Right now the PvE content is ridiculously easy. When you have a decent build you will be doing fine and when you have a perfect build: What will you gain? Something noticable? Yes. Something overwhelming? Not really!
The differences are small and honestly when your gearcapped to close to: Your doing work in every dungeon.
Yet I encourage to optimize builds. Hate me for that.
Sincerely BlackyLuke
PS: Panda you can add me ingame. BTW Dolla was online recently I talked to him, he said you make him come online so I got him to play the game a little. I guess you already now....
0
pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
And so I specced hybrid for 2 whole days mainly for pvp, as I occasionally do, but ran a bunch of dungeons and tiamats as well. Am speccing back as I type this.
I'm just not happy with the results. Yes I do overall more damage because Intimidation is a superb trash cleaner and the massive aoe will do the job, but my IBS and sure strike hit like a wet noodle in the wind. I got used to 200k easy crits in dungeons after a good, nice buildup, and I just can't be satisfied with any other result that's 75% less.
It's a matter of playstyle. Hybrid isn't bad at all, it's just very different. I believe my job is to eliminate elite mobs and bosses as quickly as I can and let the cw's clear the trash and cc the mobs. Hybrid is still no match to destroyer in single target though. I know we ran and the difference was rather minor, but we should run a few more times with ACT on, I'd like to analyse it further.
I don't know why u seem to not have those big crits with Ibs.. I don't have an issue getting 200k+ crits on my toon..
Anyways I will be online in around 8 hours from now when I log in I will see if you are online welcome to do some tests.. I have improved my build slightly since we ran last time as well
0
jhozamMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 44
I don't know why u seem to not have those big crits with Ibs.. I don't have an issue getting 200k+ crits on my toon..
Anyways I will be online in around 8 hours from now when I log in I will see if you are online welcome to do some tests.. I have improved my build slightly since we ran last time as well
Paul, can you post your complete build details, because i tried an hybrid build but really my ibs seems to be very weak
Jhozam, DDO player since March 2006 (2006-2009 on Devourer server, 2009-2012 on Cannith server)
Proud Officer of Ordo Draconis, DDO Italian Elite Guild
now up on Neverwinter Online, member of Ordo Obscuri Domini, Italian Guild
0
pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
edited January 2015
I'm not quite ready to publish my build yet either as I am making changes as well.. I'm still making small changes especially in the last week or so and the dps has increased according with that..
Now I hear a lot of people say they feel like the hybrid build doesn't hit hard.. I had been thinking about this.. And why and I have come up with a conclusion
In fact the current destroyer and current intimidation hybrid require two completely different playstyles... Firstly the destroyer requires more skill in terms of making sure you use your encounters properly.. You need to aim more and focus more on your positioning.. With hybrid the aoe skills will nuke anything in the General area so aiming and positioning is not as important especially given the hybrid is also more tanky
Now this brings me to the most important point.. The hybrid intimidation build however requires a lot more skill in a different area.. Let's call this "encounter stacking"
In other mmos is also referred to skill stacking or power stacking but for neverwinter let's call it encounter stacking.. And anyone that has played a mmo with raids that have dps based drop systems will understand this phrase
It pretty much refers to the way you use your skills and encounters in order to maximise dps
Just spamming your encounters once they come off cool down will not maximise your dps and I think with the intimidation build this is extremely important
Your actual encounters themselves in this game provide very small amount of your dps.. There are so many buffs/debuffs going on.. I would recommend learning the icons of which buffs and debuff are which.. And I would recommend that a fair bit of testing is done in terms of which order you should use your encounters.. As they provide buffs/debuffs... Have procs and all this will impact the results of the following encounters.. This absolutley does require practice and testing to achieve the best results
I constantly get that comment ibs hits small when you are hybrid.. But I have no issue hitting 200-300k with the right encounter stacking and daring shout and come and get it reguarlly proc on my toon in the 200-400k mark each.. The reason I feel destroyer doesn't require as much skill in this area is because the destroyer capstone provides the stacks for you.. As the primary dps buff is from the capstone.. Where as the intimidation is more complicated
So I feel most people in the hybrid build just spam encounters instead of stacking them..
Just a thought
I think the bad part of this build is that like any int build, it needs top gear to be really effective and get up to high power stat values to make intimidation really worth it.
This is true. I have a mediocre 16.5k GWF alt with 6.5k power. With one of the free festival tokens I specced it into a Sentinel from a Destroyer. Very disappointing. Sure, he can take a lot more damage, but the DPS is subpar because I do not have the power to maximise the Intimidation feat. As a Destroyer and running either Takedown or Roar in my rotation I can maintain 100% of the AoW stacks, build determination much faster and deliver a constant stream of damage that a ''baby'' Sentinel cannot match.
In my humble opinion Sentinels and Hybrids are only viable from around the 19k mark. Below that a Destroyer will win every time in a damage race.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
- double click in all your name
- double click outgoing dmg
- double click all
- double click an ability
The encounter logs will pop:
- type in search your name
- hit search
- mark Only Show Search Results box
- copy results
create a new txt file and paste the results. You;ve isolated your contribution for each encounter.
In the new log file at "All" section : "Damage taken" column will show us how your dmg was done to each foe. That will provide a better understanding of hybrid build qualities.
Would be nice if a pure Destroyer could provide a similar log file.
0
pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
- double click in all your name
- double click outgoing dmg
- double click all
- double click an ability
The encounter logs will pop:
- type in search your name
- hit search
- mark Only Show Search Results box
- copy results
create a new txt file and paste the results. You;ve isolated your contribution for each encouter.
In the new log file at "All" section : "Damage taken" column will show us how your dmg was done to each foe. That will provide a better understanding of hybrid build qualities.
Would be nice if a pure Destroyer could provide a similar log file.
Hey sorry been busy the last few days with work.. I am making an attempt to do as you have asked but it seems when I get to the "mark only show search results" and "copy results" part is becomes abit confusing.. I paste it in a word document and it comes out with around 530 pages of information.. however I can show you my last tiamat breakdown
If you could give me some mor information on what you are after I can find it im sure but I still believe stacking power leads to this build being VERY VERY good
If you look at the graph at the bottom of this one its easy to see that this build is capable of hitting very hard.. there are a lot of procs in the 200-400k range
If you could give me some mor information on what you are after I can find it im sure but I still believe stacking power leads to this build being VERY VERY good
y, it will let us see exactly where the dmg goes, will show how much of the dmg is aoe and how much is single target (head part) (will isolate your dmg from the grp for each enemy).
Comments
Okay. Usually at this point I wouldn't even bother talking anymore.
Were drifting to far into ad hominem.
I completely understand what Val deserves as credit, but then again right now GWF is considered weak and is he the guy who is active?
Valiant got me to start GWF, after I was fed up with playing OP CW for 1 year. I understood it, okay?
My "negative attitude towards other players" as you described it looked like this:
- Im officer in BL.
- Other officers and I recruit new people.
- Im making trial runs with new people.
- Some are good -> I make them full member.
- Some are bad -> I give them more time as trial and advise them on builds or ask other officers for help. I run dungeons to farm their new gear. I give them tips. Farm CN with them.
- "bad players" are in the guild for 2-3 weeks. I make another trial. They still do the same mistakes (gameplay wise, not only in gear).
- I decide these players dont make the requirement. -> Kick.
Problem was that I kicked ppl that other officers were close friends with and some had the idea that getting more members is more important than the quality. Since Black Lotus "changed" their view on recruitment, it is nothing for me.
I got invites to come back and stuff like that, but I don't want that since I joined the guild, because of friends I had in there: They all left the game by now. So the hardcore theme of the guild was everything that held me so far.
By the way, if I was kicked for "negative attitude" I wonder why @dubonbacon is an officer now? This guy death threads people who enter Tiamat with less than 16k GS.
I never said that Intimidation build is "bad". I think if it fits ones playstyle that makes it perfect. I just gave my opinion that Single Target/SM is superior. If you wanna call it Lazalias build, fine. I don't care who made it honestly. I just think its the objectively right thought and theorycraft behind it.
I prefer a basic foundation of build that is considered as a frame. For example using AoW in PvE. Then I encourage people to find a personal flavor within their build. Mostly graduating between how glasscannon or how tanky you wanna be. When you stay efficient while doing that, which is easily possible: Hell Yeah!
Yes I need to conflict things! Always! Thats a basic idea I believe in. Even if somebody (even I) created the hardest piece of work, I will question it! That is the way to improve and this doesn't apply to the game itself, we always have to ask and demand answers. We need to critizise and discuss!
Now look at your title. Thats what I "attacked" in my posts. I don't think your build is the best.
Then I "attack" your build, I nowhere attack you as a person. I wish I knew you better, but even if nothing would change here!
If people take my critique (and I know its harsh and direct most times) personal, that is not my fault.
I don't have to defend myself for that. Yet I do for the sake of understanding. We're all GWF players, we all like this class.
I wan't every GWF to enjoy it as much as you and I do, thats why I theorycraft and I specifically point out whats the downsite or the error in builds that are public here on the forums.
Your last point is really good, yes you run vorpal and a high crit value. Neverwinter has it's limits. Right now the PvE content is ridiculously easy. When you have a decent build you will be doing fine and when you have a perfect build: What will you gain? Something noticable? Yes. Something overwhelming? Not really!
The differences are small and honestly when your gearcapped to close to: Your doing work in every dungeon.
Yet I encourage to optimize builds. Hate me for that.
Sincerely BlackyLuke
PS: Panda you can add me ingame. BTW Dolla was online recently I talked to him, he said you make him come online so I got him to play the game a little. I guess you already now....
I don't know why u seem to not have those big crits with Ibs.. I don't have an issue getting 200k+ crits on my toon..
Anyways I will be online in around 8 hours from now when I log in I will see if you are online welcome to do some tests.. I have improved my build slightly since we ran last time as well
Paul, can you post your complete build details, because i tried an hybrid build but really my ibs seems to be very weak
Proud Officer of Ordo Draconis, DDO Italian Elite Guild
now up on Neverwinter Online, member of Ordo Obscuri Domini, Italian Guild
Now I hear a lot of people say they feel like the hybrid build doesn't hit hard.. I had been thinking about this.. And why and I have come up with a conclusion
In fact the current destroyer and current intimidation hybrid require two completely different playstyles... Firstly the destroyer requires more skill in terms of making sure you use your encounters properly.. You need to aim more and focus more on your positioning.. With hybrid the aoe skills will nuke anything in the General area so aiming and positioning is not as important especially given the hybrid is also more tanky
Now this brings me to the most important point.. The hybrid intimidation build however requires a lot more skill in a different area.. Let's call this "encounter stacking"
In other mmos is also referred to skill stacking or power stacking but for neverwinter let's call it encounter stacking.. And anyone that has played a mmo with raids that have dps based drop systems will understand this phrase
It pretty much refers to the way you use your skills and encounters in order to maximise dps
Just spamming your encounters once they come off cool down will not maximise your dps and I think with the intimidation build this is extremely important
Your actual encounters themselves in this game provide very small amount of your dps.. There are so many buffs/debuffs going on.. I would recommend learning the icons of which buffs and debuff are which.. And I would recommend that a fair bit of testing is done in terms of which order you should use your encounters.. As they provide buffs/debuffs... Have procs and all this will impact the results of the following encounters.. This absolutley does require practice and testing to achieve the best results
I constantly get that comment ibs hits small when you are hybrid.. But I have no issue hitting 200-300k with the right encounter stacking and daring shout and come and get it reguarlly proc on my toon in the 200-400k mark each.. The reason I feel destroyer doesn't require as much skill in this area is because the destroyer capstone provides the stacks for you.. As the primary dps buff is from the capstone.. Where as the intimidation is more complicated
So I feel most people in the hybrid build just spam encounters instead of stacking them..
Just a thought
This is true. I have a mediocre 16.5k GWF alt with 6.5k power. With one of the free festival tokens I specced it into a Sentinel from a Destroyer. Very disappointing. Sure, he can take a lot more damage, but the DPS is subpar because I do not have the power to maximise the Intimidation feat. As a Destroyer and running either Takedown or Roar in my rotation I can maintain 100% of the AoW stacks, build determination much faster and deliver a constant stream of damage that a ''baby'' Sentinel cannot match.
In my humble opinion Sentinels and Hybrids are only viable from around the 19k mark. Below that a Destroyer will win every time in a damage race.
You can do that in ACT by :
- double click in all your name
- double click outgoing dmg
- double click all
- double click an ability
The encounter logs will pop:
- type in search your name
- hit search
- mark Only Show Search Results box
- copy results
create a new txt file and paste the results. You;ve isolated your contribution for each encounter.
In the new log file at "All" section : "Damage taken" column will show us how your dmg was done to each foe. That will provide a better understanding of hybrid build qualities.
Would be nice if a pure Destroyer could provide a similar log file.
Hey sorry been busy the last few days with work.. I am making an attempt to do as you have asked but it seems when I get to the "mark only show search results" and "copy results" part is becomes abit confusing.. I paste it in a word document and it comes out with around 530 pages of information.. however I can show you my last tiamat breakdown
If you could give me some mor information on what you are after I can find it im sure but I still believe stacking power leads to this build being VERY VERY good
If you look at the graph at the bottom of this one its easy to see that this build is capable of hitting very hard.. there are a lot of procs in the 200-400k range
y, it will let us see exactly where the dmg goes, will show how much of the dmg is aoe and how much is single target (head part) (will isolate your dmg from the grp for each enemy).