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Current worst class (both PVP and PVE taken into account).

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  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    vaulwyn wrote: »
    GFW in my guild do 10x-15x my dmg as a GF or more In a run they are also capable of tanking any of the current content with a healer.
    There are just as useful as a GF often more so.

    tank crying about squishy melee dps doing more dmg...

    smth like sw can do 2x of GWF dmg, HR should do more than GWF while safely sitting at range(especially with GF tank and CW for cc), dont know about tr and dps DC dmg but afaik its higher, dev favorite cw also does more dmg than gwf + provides a ton of cc, why should anybody take GWF ?

    GF provides KV and in to the fray, and can safely tank bosses with on demand damage reduction
    Paladin Master Race
  • lewel555lewel555 Member Posts: 616 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Gwf hands down. Hey Gwf finally gets #1 somewhere!
  • tarftgmtarftgm Banned Users Posts: 169 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    lewel555 wrote: »
    Gwf hands down. Hey Gwf finally gets #1 somewhere!

    It's kinda sad. lol

    I loved fighting GWF's before (seriously, I did). They had this scary presence when you'd see them.

    When you'd see them, you'd be "on your guard", you'd know that they were threatening, and that you had to give your maximum to beat them.


    Now? Kite around them a little while they slowly die (All of that while you either dodge or deflect their 800-2000 damage hits).
  • dante126pldante126pl Banned Users Posts: 257 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    tarftgm wrote: »
    It's kinda sad. lol

    I loved fighting GWF's before (seriously, I did). They had this scary presence when you'd see them.

    When you'd see them, you'd be "on your guard", you'd know that they were threatening, and that you had to give your maximum to beat them.


    Now? Kite around them a little while they slowly die (All of that while you either dodge or deflect their 800-2000 damage hits).

    gotta love class balance i have no idea why crush is making every class DoT stacking monster with perma dodge ability.
  • emmrossemmross Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Scourge warlock is pretty lousy - no AoE combined with lousy defense, if you get swarmed by a mob you're toast.

    One criticism I have with all classes though is simply this: Stamina. Why in the hell do we have the stamina of a 90 year-old with arthritis? It's useless.
  • lelandhilllelandhill Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I agree with your ratings...I would put the TR pvp at a 7 tho. Most sickening, frustrating, make you wanna quit the entire game, overpowered pvp class in the entire game. No idea what they are thinking leaving the permastealth+15-20k hits that they get alone, but nerf all the other classes. Doesn't make any sense at all...
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    lelandhill wrote: »
    I agree with your ratings...I would put the TR pvp at a 7 tho. Most sickening, frustrating, make you wanna quit the entire game, overpowered pvp class in the entire game. No idea what they are thinking leaving the permastealth+15-20k hits that they get alone, but nerf all the other classes. Doesn't make any sense at all...


    15-20K hits are decent, but my guild has a TR that hits me 40k in a daily, and with how fast they gain action point now it's not even funny. :)

    This is coming from a 24k GS GWF with 43K HP... :\
    icydrake%20avatar2_zpsg7rp0xti.jpg

    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • foxxy#4211 foxxy Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 563 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    It is incredible after all the buffs and class redesigns developpers have made for TR and DC, there are 19 votes for TR and 6 votes for Cleric. Rogues and clerics are dominating both pve and pvp. and do u still want more?
    These are my thoughts:

    For control wizards i give a 5 points to pvp and pve. rangers 4 pve and 5 pvp. guardians 5pvp and 1 pve (as killers) 5 (as defenders.) clerics 5pve and 6pvp (yup, clerics doing damage, having the most kills in pvp along rogues?) nice joke!. rogues 5pve and 10 pvp (yup, im not exaggerating) and finally. weapon figthers 5pvp-1pve and warlocks 5pve-0pvp.

    something that i have read on many posts and other people have already mentioned is:
    U cannot have great damage, with great control effects.
    U cannot have great damage plus huge healings.
    U cannot have stealth for ever, with many dazes and op damage
    what then is left for weapon fighters, warlocks? guardians pay their damage for an incredible defense and HP. (althought i have seen some guardians mixing attack and def very well). And as i see rangers, they are good for both environments.
    So, we cannot be unfair with some classes while giving additional buffs and more and more to other classes.
  • fastrean3fastrean3 Member Posts: 281 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Hey, why not buff other class into same line as tr and dc instead of nerf them? Lets see what to the chemical reaction will comes out :rolleyes:
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  • kweassakweassa Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    clonkyo1 wrote: »
    I do not get why non-GWF-players still insists on telling or thinking about the GWF-class being "OP" in PvP and/or PvE. The class is USELESS in both PvE and PvP, period. If anyone is still thinking that the class is "good" on PvP and/or PvE due a player can kill them, then, those whose are thinking like this should learn how to play this game.

    On the contrary. It simply shows how many vocal and active whiners in these forums are GWF players, hellbent on spreading the propaganda that GWFs are 'useless'. GWFs have been simply toned down to the levels of any other given class, and this is regardless of whether the TR is OP or not.

    From what's been going on, it seems pretty clear the only instances of "usefulness" the GWF whiners acknowledge, is when they are at relative performance levels witnessed during mod2. "The GWF wasn't actually really OP at all during mod2...." ROFL, who they trying to kid?

    I'd understand the destroyers or instigators that are complaining since both of these are much squishier and not at all really a "tank", just a two-handed DPS, hence, considering their willing choices to give up the easy-mode that the sentinel offers I can certainly see why they profess that they need much more skill than other GWF builds.

    But sentinels whining? Just lulz, all-around.
    Stop making excuses. Be a man.
    If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
    Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
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  • lewel555lewel555 Member Posts: 616 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    kweassa wrote: »
    On the contrary. It simply shows how many vocal and active whiners in these forums are GWF players, hellbent on spreading the propaganda that GWFs are 'useless'. snip snip snip

    Fail troll is fail. Even a spammer like kweassa cannot beat the charts and figures and logs and posts by knowledgeable players. It's like kweassa repeating that 2+2 is five wherever he sees a thread and hoping that if he can repeat this nonsense very often, it will become a truth. Well, it won't. Gwf in NWO is nerfed beyond repair, useless, both squishy and unable to deliver any DPS, and bar the name has nothing in common with DnD's Gwf.
    Repeat after me, kweassa.
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    "PS: I can almost confirm that DEVs ninja-nerfed "our" DR again which, basically, do not help to any paragon at all."

    You can do that with ACT, you talking about this from 2 weeks. just do it.
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  • sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    the main problem with most GWF player's is they are always crying, but also most of them ask and think GWf should be the best every where. So when it come to PVP they cry and ask to be able to compet with TR which is actually a overpowered not only against GWf but again all other class in PVP term, they also think that it easy for other class and that other class do not have to make compromise between pve and pvp.

    So if you put out TR,
    point 1 GWF PVP spec is kinda good (on an equilibrate spot) in PVP.
    Point 2 GWF is kinda equilibrate between the 3 parangon path
    GWF player often forgot those two points

    point 3 GWF PVP build is under the bridge in PVE vs other PVP build of other class.
    Point 4 GWF PVE build is slightly under other PVE build of other class in PVE party
    Point 5 GWF PVE build is under the bridge in PVP vs other PVE build.
    Non GWF player often forgot those 3 points.

    That why so many GWF proposition get such bad return, and the fact that GWF is kinda equilibrate make every move trying to make GWF more on the line in point 3-4-5 with other class often destroy point 1 and 2 with some demi god PVP class or PVE build on same lvl as PVP other class build (case in V3 GWF or actual V5 TR).

    I hope this will open eye for both side
  • germmaniacgermmaniac Member Posts: 204 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    sygfried94 wrote: »

    So if you put out TR,
    point 1 GWF PVP spec is kinda good (on an equilibrate spot) in PVP.
    Point 2 GWF is kinda equilibrate between the 3 parangon path
    GWF player often forgot those two points

    point 3 GWF PVP build is under the bridge in PVE vs other PVP build of other class.
    Point 4 GWF PVE build is slightly under other PVE build of other class in PVE party
    Point 5 GWF PVE build is under the bridge in PVP vs other PVE build.
    Non GWF player often forgot those 3 points.
    Really? And you have tried all these builds? Kindly post these builds where the GWF is "kinda equilibrate" and "slightly under other PVE build of other class in PVE party", oh wise one. :/
    The only way GWFs seem to be able to compete (or at least the ones that stand a chance) are the ones BiS, and having a 5k+ GS lead over the rest of classes (except GF, currently), when comparing DPS.
    And No, contrary to popular belief, not all GWF players want the best of everything. But currently, we cannot be best at anything. And not even second best at most. That hurts.
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Well Kweassa is has turned himself into a joke and its impossible for people to take him seriously any more after his crusade to tell everybody to l2p if they have trubble with the according to him normal and not OP Trs out there.

    When it comes to Gwfs we are fine if sent build and 21kgs and above with 5-7 Legendary artifacts.
    The problem comes when you compare the equippment needed to perform toward other classes.

    When it comes to pve the nerf to unstoppable is dubble edge as you need to stay close to the mobs and take dam to deliver dam.
    Instigator and Destroyer need to kite to survive and while kiting they do no damage so even if they can deliver nice damage while fighting in reality they loose the ability to keep aggro as they loose it while kiting as well as the ablility to applay damage.

    That is even worse for destroyer that needs to fight to keep the stacks that is needed up whish they loose when kiting.
    Not being able to tank mobs simply makes the Gwfs unable to both keep aggro and do consistent damage making them rather 3rd grade in groups.

    If you have all boons and 22kgs you dont have much problem but that is mainly because you outgear most players and to start a fresh gwf today is kinda useless unless you want to spend x1000€ on gear/enchantments/refining.

    My 17k gf is much better in groups then my 21k gwf simple because he can do everyting needed with alot less gs (+ the utility of a gf for groups is more usefull).

    I understand that those that face 22+kgs sents with 12k power in pvp have a hard time understanding why some say we are a 3rd rate class but trust me a 14k Tr is way more dangerous in pvp then a 22k gwf.
  • sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    germmaniac wrote: »
    Really? And you have tried all these builds? Kindly post these builds where the GWF is "kinda equilibrate"
    yes GWF is kinda equilibrate between his 3 parangon path. that not something you can find in lot of other class and that not mean it 's equilibrate with other class
    germmaniac wrote: »
    and "slightly under other PVE build of other class in PVE party", oh wise one. :/
    The only way GWFs seem to be able to compete (or at least the ones that stand a chance) are the ones BiS, and having a 5k+ GS lead over the rest of classes (except GF, currently), when comparing DPS.
    And No, contrary to popular belief, not all GWF players want the best of everything. But currently, we cannot be best at anything. And not even second best at most. That hurts.

    Thank to remember this point, Problably the most forgotten point from many GWF player that complain is having a way to do something mean it still exist. Maybe you don,t like it but it still there.

    IS gwf is weaker than othe class as same equip lvl (preferable than gs since GWF have some feat that increase GS). yes in many case but not always the case. + An other point, (I'm just taking your point there) that with higher GS you are able to do same as other class also give the GAP and this GAP is not as big as you want to say (here let put all point in power, that mean with the special case something like 15 % max of DPS).

    How ever continue crying but it won't help GWf case. my point is mainly how to make GWF more on the line with other class in different case without putting it on overpowered part in PVP with PVP build but also it would be nice to still remain in same time with the 3 paragon path playable (this is not the case for many other class where you mainly find one path played).

    PS: Actually if double spec was possible GWF would not be this bad

    Also one change that can give a good boost (and would be normal i think) without touching too much things is: while running GWF can still strike his at will. so you stil lable to fight back while running
  • animalustanimalust Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 573 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    tarftgm wrote: »
    This thread is to discuss versatility of the classes. PVP and PVE both welcome.

    IMO the worst one right now is GWF because: No real role in PVE, Pretty meh in PVP.

    Closest is warlock, but it's AMAZING in PVE but a nightmare in PVP.

    Basically, I'll use this kind of rating.

    1 - Terrible 2- Poor 3- Medium 4- Good 5 - Excellent


    Control Wizard: PVE -> 5 //// PVP -> 4

    Devoted Cleric : PVE -> 4 //// PVP -> 5

    Guardian Fighter : PVE -> 4 //// PVP -> 4

    Great Weapon Fighter : PVE -> 2 //// PVP -> 3

    Trickster Rogue : PVE -> 4 //// PVP -> 6 (Overpowered)

    Hunter Ranger : PVE -> 3 //// PVP -> 5

    Scourge Warlock : PVE -> 5 //// PVP -> 1


    I play an SW and I dont think we are that bad in PvP, i think the majority of SW's are terrible in PvP, but myself and a few others I know are certainly able to kill and well. But I think at the upper end of the spectrum such as Premades vs Premades, i think at that point the SW might be a hard sell.
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    tarftgm wrote: »
    This thread is to discuss versatility of the classes. PVP and PVE both welcome.

    IMO the worst one right now is GWF because: No real role in PVE, Pretty meh in PVP.

    Closest is warlock, but it's AMAZING in PVE but a nightmare in PVP.

    Basically, I'll use this kind of rating.

    1 - Terrible 2- Poor 3- Medium 4- Good 5 - Excellent


    Control Wizard: PVE -> 5 //// PVP -> 4

    Devoted Cleric : PVE -> 4 //// PVP -> 5

    Guardian Fighter : PVE -> 4 //// PVP -> 4

    Great Weapon Fighter : PVE -> 2 //// PVP -> 3

    Trickster Rogue : PVE -> 4 //// PVP -> 6 (Overpowered)

    Hunter Ranger : PVE -> 3 //// PVP -> 5

    Scourge Warlock : PVE -> 5 //// PVP -> 1


    Haha, no.

    Control Wizard: PVE -> 6(OP) //// PVP -> 2 (Damage < HP)

    Devoted Cleric : PVE -> 2 //// PVP -> 4

    Guardian Fighter : PVE -> 1 //// PVP -> 6(OP)

    Great Weapon Fighter : PVE -> 5 (completely fine) //// PVP -> 6 (OP)

    Trickster Rogue : PVE -> 5 (completely fine) //// PVP -> 6 (OP)

    Hunter Ranger : PVE -> 3 //// PVP -> 6 (OP)

    Scourge Warlock : PVE -> 6 (OP) //// PVP -> 2 (same like CW)

    Basically, PVP builds should generally be a lots of HP and CON builds, which doesn't bode well for the squishier targets such as TR-CW-SW-HR, which is why these classes have a lot of power-crit-arpen-deflect at their disposal for proper usage.

    That being said, CW is seriously downgraded as a damage dealer and the reason why you might see them having a lot of kills is because of the spells which tick very fast. This will change once the Cryptic fixes the last+hit=kill problem.
    Best role ofr a CW in PvP is mostly as a support, which is why the oppressor tree is most viable PvP-wise.

    In PvE each class can be ''OP'' because if you build it that way, it'll remain that way.

    Currently, the best overall class is a TR, but it can't match the defense and HP of a GWF.

    When GWF came out, it ruined the TR. Now, picking a GWF is not much viable and a lot of boys who were like ''My GWF can't kill anything in a single hit'' will now have to make a bit of tactical play instead of Leeroy Jenkins.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    c1k4ml3kc3 wrote: »
    Haha, no.
    a pile of troll dung

    what gs and on what page is your GWF and how often do you play it ?



    average and perfectly balanced is 4
    • Control Wizard: PVE -> 7 //// PVP -> 3(depends on if 1v1, pug or premade)
    • Devoted Cleric : PVE -> 4 //// PVP -> 5
    • Guardian Fighter : PVE -> solo 2, party 4 //// PVP -> 4
    • Great Weapon Fighter : PVE -> solo 4~5*, party 2 //// PVP -> 1~3(depending on build)
    • Trickster Rogue : PVE -> 5 //// PVP -> 6 (Overpowered)
    • Hunter Ranger : PVE -> 2, archer 4 in a party //// PVP -> 5(less for non combat
    • Scourge Warlock : PVE -> 4~7(7 as fury in specific tt friendly dungeons) //// PVP -> 3(quite fun in pugs, bad in 1v1, deals decent damage with a cc support)
    *medium-high end gwf, badly geared might be in s***
    Paladin Master Race
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    there is a main point here: gwf is boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooring now.

    have a class whose powers are largely aoe, but be required to take a single target gameplay by reason of a combat designer sloppy with their product is boring.

    in the case of destroyer for example, have your "rework" based not on expanding the capacity of the class, but to restrict your accidentally expanded performance, is boring (m2 bleed X destroyer stacks).

    dont have options of class features is boring. have a feet better than an entire tree is boring, use recycled skills is boring, have the animation destroyed for nothing and now sprint like a chicken is boring .... the list goes on.

    but nothing is more annoying than seeing people parasitizing the class even after dead and buried. you do not have to face just monsters, but people the internet too, is plotting nerfs (my god) or saying "the class is fine" for a class that I did not even want to play.
  • sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    marnival wrote: »
    Haha yea but remember your mostly running for a reason either to GET AWAY or CHASING to REACH not much use of a melee at will then do ya think :-)...

    well not necesserly, you also use run to get the +30% DR because inflexible lack a little of proc. from V3 to v4 the proc possibility of inflexible drop too much. In exchange they give run 30% DR and a CC immun to help. So to speak it because an inflexible without possibility of fighting. The v3 proc of inflexible was too much in PVP also because of the association of the PV gain given in t1 path of sentinell. The rate of the dr bonus given by inflexible and the highly possibility of proc was mainly given too much defense for dps path while given too much pv for PVP. They goes too far on the other side so they gave run. giving possibility for run to use at will would permit to help and give mobility for GWF while fighting and would offer more possibility
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    well not necesserly, you also use run to get the +30% DR because inflexible lack a little of proc. from V3 to v4 the proc possibility of inflexible drop too much. In exchange they give run 30% DR and a CC immun to help. So to speak it because an inflexible without possibility of fighting. The v3 proc of inflexible was too much in PVP also because of the association of the PV gain given in t1 path of sentinell. The rate of the dr bonus given by inflexible and the highly possibility of proc was mainly given too much defense for dps path while given too much pv for PVP. They goes too far on the other side so they gave run. giving possibility for run to use at will would permit to help and give mobility for GWF while fighting and would offer more possibility

    Sometime theory and reality dont mix very good this is one of those times.
    Running in pvp against mobs that stand still doing damage is 1 not very effecient and 2 can be done during very short duration.

    The Dr it gives together with some immunity(lately snare seem to stick to you even during sprint while in unstoppabe for some reason) makes it exelent to reach opponents but the problem is that when you arrive you are out of stamina and can be cced while they move away again.

    I have little problem with most cws with my gwf because i slott battle fury for extra stamina and have the luxery of being here since beta with all boons and deacent gear. Very few % of the gwfs have that luxery and here comes the downside in when it comes to gear and gwfs.
    I am guessing here but I think its fair to say that gwfs need about 2-4 k more gear then other classes to be competible depending on class and frankly that is a bit rough.

    I dont know if you played Gwf and went to new instances or some heavy add t2 but if you would have it is obvious that once you hit a treashold its doeble but before that when other classes are doing just fine the gwf fall short as they just cant do their job.
    They cant tank and they cant do damage or hold aggro enough.

    The only chanse to survive is to lean heavely on the groups dc or ccs but you dont pull your own weight.
    The same goes for high lvl gear actually you need to be well above in gs to be of use to the group compared to most other classes if not all.

    Hence the gwf class fall short UNLESS you outgear the others and thats what most mean when they say gwf are doing fine :-).
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  • lewstelamon01lewstelamon01 Member Posts: 7,415 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    After reading through this thread and seeing a lot of violations, I can only conclude that this thread is going the same direction as many "best class/worst class" threads....a lot of flaming, bickering, and arguing.
    ROLL TIDE ROLL

    Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?

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