sn0wt0ri0usMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 21Arc User
edited October 2014
well, i dont know if you guys played the preview server at all, but (and ill admit i was complaining at first) the 15% at will thing, has to go. but playing sabotuer, means 100% crit all the time coupled with gloaming cut.... and also if you guys didnt notice infinite dodges within stealth, hopefully that isnt a bug, gloaming cut in sab tree did 12k each hit because of perma crit, T4 feats are useless so use all the others, this tree is the best for PVE because if you do this boring rotation you deal massive damage, one with the shadows, all you need is dazing strike, lashing blade, and shadow strike, and your only at will needs to is gloaming cut. yes cheesy, but cryptic took away the usefullness of DF in stealth, so time to adapt also since you have 100% crit all the time, WHY DO WE NEED TO STACK DEXTERITY? put it all into charisma, then you get more deflect, which makes scoundrel even more useless. and you get CA damage. cryptic tried to kill perma stealth in pvp when all they did is make perma stealth in pve... dont even get me started on the over powered EXE tree, Hitting 80k Crits with lashing blade... when i have a bilethorn? thats sickening. what can i do with a perfect vorpal? 100k plus? extra armor pen even if that shot gets deflected lol 50% of 100k is 50k damage... not including the DR afterwards. first strike coupled with blitz or Whirlwind (in stealth) can clear out a ton of mobs in any dungeon whirlwind hits 60k each with first strike... thats **** scary. unfortunately it will definitely get nerfed but for the time being play around with the styles, except scoundrel useless tree... again i hate cryptic for ignoring us for a year and a half, but they finally updated us.. and hey instad of nerfing everyone why not make everyone OP as hell that way, it takes pure skill to survive... **** that was a long badly worded paragraph
I already wrote up an insanely long post in the preview forum TR feedback post about this where it actually matters, but after hours of soloing and running dungeons and starting at ACT parses and coming to generally hate the concept of numbers, I stand by and reiterate my initial comment:
PvE TR is dead.
We can do semi-decent AoE damage with Blitz now and act like a bad CW with no control. But the stealth nerf and shift of Executioner to single-hit big numbers has killed us at bosses as we can't sustain damage like we used to. (Oh, Exe also lost a whopping 25% crit severity, and without Dazzling Blades our cooldowns are of course longer, so less LB if you're into that and less ItC for standing in those ever-present boss AoEs.)
Almost everything requires being in stealth now, which we cannot maintain as Exe even to the limited extent of non-Semi PvE exe playstyle. Or triggers off something dying(Hi, LOL bosses, especially Lostmauth, where that literally can't happen), or only works on the first hit for what, 250k when the boss has millions, or... Yeah. We're not building up the damage dealers like we used to - Deadly momentum was only 15%, but it was in or out of stealth; Brutal Backstab was 25% in stealth, now we only get 15% and only in stealth on Exe. Nothing sustains, it's all burst.
I have yet to do Saboteur testing, but from reports from other TRs I trust to evaluate PvE, it's not good for dungeon groups or boss DPS either. It may prove to be a more enjoyable playstyle; I'll have to look at it, but Executioner is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Stop looking at Paingiver and especially stop looking at those useless Lashing Blade e-peen numbers, Duelist's Flurry was always the core of your sustained DPS, but it's depricated now.
So far, the best loadout I've found for PvE dungeon clearing is Skillful Infiltrator/First Strike for passives, Gloaming Cut/Cloud of Steel as At-wills, Blitz/Impossible to Catch/Wicked Reminder as Encounters, and Whirlwind of Blades/Lurker's Assault as Dailies. Run in, Stealth, Blitz from Stealth as your alpha to destroy trash/soften up, what's left you empty WR charges into to debuff/damage and start using GC on, pound WoB as it hits, don't forget to use your DC sigil for more WoB power-boosting joy.
For bosses, I haven't found anything I'm happy with yet, although the above is nice for the older dungeons where there's a metric ton of trash that the CWs are piling on the boss and if you try to actually stay in melee range the adds are going to cream you(I'm looking at you, FH). I suspect it's probably going to end up as Skillful/Invisible Infiltrator, Shadow Strike/ItC/WR, Gloaming/CoS and WoB/LA or maybe ending up with Bloodbath of all things in there because a dead or controlled TR does 0 damage. That may end up coming about even to where we are now for effectiveness, which is... Massively disappointing given that even isn't really where we needed to end up.
Also, to the Deft Strike person, in place of *what*, and exactly what do you expect to Deft Strike *to* for AoEs at, say, eLOL final boss? XD XD XD
So, our boss effectiveness is down, our survival is down(Less ItC due to longer cooldowns means less tolerance for getting pounded by adds or standing in red circles and more being controlled, and over the course of a boss the cooldowns *do* in fact matter), and we all know we aren't going to keep the damage because it's going to get nerfed due to PvP crying like it always has.
Worse, while Exe so far still seems to be the best PvE path, it's also massively gear-dependent because so much of it goes off your power, leaving the lower-GSed TRs even further behind.
So we've lost... Quite a lot. And gained very little, and what we did gain we won't keep. Hells, I've already seen people complaining about Blitz damage in PvE, so even that gain is of questionable lifespan.
We may end up very slightly ahead in the short term. But it won't last, and then we'll be worse off than we were before. I'm not looking forward to that and I hope you aren't either.
This is 100% about PvP(There's an executioner feat useless outside of PvP, for that matter), and 0% about PvE, and it shows, and it's just plain not good in PvE. Which is a shame because I hate PvP and don't do it unless I have to, and even then it's generally just to do the PvP phase of GG for coins/daily/glory to get more Raven Skulls to feed to my Power artifacts.
What won't last? LOL this damge TR would have in new module is not enough. We need more dodge, stealth normal not this mockery stealth depletion on hit and more hp. And i don't care and never will care about cryings on forum. Because it means nothing. If someone has no idea what he is talking about then it should not be even taken in consideration. If those forum rules were fair, then any and every thread about TR nerf should be closed same as HR and CW threads are closed. What i expect from normal company and professional game makers is that they are balancing classes not some noobs who have no clue what they are talking about. The game i was playing before devs were simply resilient. They made cw best for pve, tr best for pvp and some other classes which were needed in instances as well. If someone was crying about TR they were simply saying:Go play TR pve and then go play it as CW and then come back. That is exactly how company should act, one class best for one thing second for other thing, anyone has problem with that roll that class and problem solved. TR in each mmo is naturally best in pvp same as mage is best in pve, period.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Also, to the Deft Strike person, in place of *what*, and exactly what do you expect to Deft Strike *to* for AoEs at, say, eLOL final boss? XD XD XD
loadout is up to you
well:
using flurry on any dragon while they are doing a dragon breath will rip a chunk of hp off since the aoe extends under the dragon. safest place to flurry is from behind which is safe from tail slaps since flurry drags you real close to dragons.
consecutive stalagmites proning you can be dodged by deft strike instead of wasting stamina on it. also helps save stamina for an imminent eye beam since that's a death sentence if you waste too much stamina dodging stalagmites.
you can dodge out of the wing flap aoe and deft strike back in to start attacking immediately.
for tuern boss, you can dodge the instant 1-shot hand blast with deft strike if you time it right. never practiced it much since i am either mid-flurry, using itc, or side-stepping to avoid the risk.
it's meant to increase survivability moreso than gap-closing. if only it had dodge frames >.>
With the new changes factored, Scoundrels can become pretty fun if you play it with a Tank CON/HP-Deflect/Reflect build. Right now this is the only existing build archetype in the game that can support a Scoundrel's intended play style; as a permalock control rogue. The new breed excels in 1 vs. 1 scenarios against opponents without control immunity such as DCs and CWs. GWFs are out of the question when it comes to permalock, but they're not entirely impossible to defeat with such a build.
Feats:
- Shady Preparations: 10% decreased CD for encounters whenever you enter Stealth.
- Roll with the Punches: 2.5% Deflect
- Survivor: 10% Deflect when HP% is less than 30%.
- Concussive Strikes: 2.5 seconds of Daze whenever you strike your from Behind or when you deal Critical Damage.
- Low Blows: 25% increased damage against controlled opponents.
- Mocking Gesture: 10% increased Deflect after entering Stealth for 10 seconds.
- Skull Cracker: 4 seconds of Daze whenever you use an Encounter while you have the Skull Cracker buff on.
So it goes like this.
1. Deft Strike: Opponent slowed by 80%, dazed for 4 seconds from Skull Cracker + 2.5 seconds from Concussive Strikes = 6.5 seconds Daze.
2. Sly Flourish x 4: 2 seconds extra Daze. 6.5 + 2 = 8.5
3. Dazing Strike: Roughly 3 seconds of Daze in average. 8.5 + 3 = 11.5
4. 10 seconds is over, Concussive Strike is ready again. Deft Strike is ready again.
5. Rinse and repeat.
ITC/Smoke bomb is used to escape hairy situations and or support teammates. And we have not factored Stealth uptime in this build yet.
This build is highly dependent on the assumption that the Concussive Strikes Daze and Skull Cracker Daze STACKS on top of one another. This has yet to be tested, although I highly doubt that they do stack. If by any chance they do not stack, it's not that hard to think of another rotation that will make full use of the right timings for the Daze effects.
I just wanted to chime in on a new possible way to play the Scoundrel as a Reflect/Deflect Rogue, whose play style is something I appreciate a lot.
I'm gearing up for a pretty neat Saboteur build myself. No other path for me to take other than Stealth as of the moment. If we factor in the recent changes to the Saboteur path as well, Sabs can be pretty scary in their own right. The stealth-based play style may be given new life thanks to the most recent change to OWTS.
1. Deft Strike: Opponent slowed by 80%, dazed for 4 seconds from Skull Cracker + 2.5 seconds from Concussive Strikes = 6.5 seconds Daze.
2. Sly Flourish x 4: 2 seconds extra Daze. 6.5 + 2 = 8.5
3. Dazing Strike: Roughly 3 seconds of Daze in average. 8.5 + 3 = 11.5
4. 10 seconds is over, Concussive Strike is ready again. Deft Strike is ready again.
5. Rinse and repeat.
The daze isn't cumulative/stacking, tod. At an ideal situation you can extend the total daze time to around 9 secs, considering that some time during the SC daze the Deft Strike slow will wear off.. and you'll have to land Dazing Strike a bit early before the enemy mvoes too far away.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Not sure if anyone has said this yet, but I may have found a build where you can still use DF using Sab tree.
It goes:
1. stealth
2. 3rd hit DF (should take you out of stealth)
3. Dazing Strike. This will refill stealth (OWtS). Another DF while target is dazed
4. Roll out into stealth
5. 3rd hit DF
6. Deft Strike followed by Dazing Strike. Return to Shadows feat will refill entire stealth bar
7. DF target while dazed, then roll out into stealth
8. 3rd hit DF
9. Shadow Strike, then roll out into stealth.
10. By this point, OWtS should be back up.
11. Repeat everything
So the only time you're out of stealth is the 3rd DF hit
I managed this on a with a 1.1k recovery WK. So you more geared MIs should yeild better results
the problem is that most enemy groups in NW come in groups (not counting PVP) so while we might manage to hit 1 enemy at a time, the other 4-5 are hitting us (and in IWD it hurts a lot).
We need a way to defend ourselves from the rest of the enemies while hitting one of them.
Not sure if anyone has said this yet, but I may have found a build where you can still use DF using Sab tree.
It goes:
1. stealth
2. 3rd hit DF (should take you out of stealth)
3. Dazing Strike. This will refill stealth (OWtS). Another DF while target is dazed
4. Roll out into stealth
5. 3rd hit DF
6. Deft Strike followed by Dazing Strike. Return to Shadows feat will refill entire stealth bar
7. DF target while dazed, then roll out into stealth
8. 3rd hit DF
9. Shadow Strike, then roll out into stealth.
10. By this point, OWtS should be back up.
11. Repeat everything
So the only time you're out of stealth is the 3rd DF hit
I managed this on a with a 1.1k recovery WK. So you more geared MIs should yeild better results
any decent player can dodge out df when it started making dazing useles
Scoundrel does need help. Been running a scoundrel capstone/Executioner hybrid to cover the damage aspect. Deflect and LS bonuses are slightly lower, but the damage increases make up for it as I'm killing the mobs slightly faster.
I'm no perma. I've never played it or have any intention of playing it, but I decided to give the new sab tree a try.
Honestly, it's bloody easy to be a [clumsy, heavy-handed] PvE perma. Just spec your sab build, add shadow strike, deft strike, your choice (it really won't matter. honestly), and gloaming cut. I had no problem staying in stealth. I soloed a couple HEs (which I couldn't do as exe, sco, or hybrid). Generally, it worked and I stayed alive.
However, it was as dull as playing an AoE archery HR.
Deft, stealth, gloam (until empty), SS, stealth, Gloam (until empty) repeat. When the target's dead, deft and repeat. I rarely used my 3rd slot - trying to use WR got me killed, ITC was mostly a waste of time and stealth. I tried lurker's a couple times, but only to refill when I ****ed up my rotation.
Yeah, dull.
PvP. however... well, since I'm not experienced using a perma build, I did some damage, but ultimately died pretty quickly as I lacked the required finesse.
If it's anything, I think I got the Scoundrel down. Was able to fight the tank/DPS DCs to a standstill with constantly keeping HP over 75%. Finished the fight as a stalemate.
I'll see if I can post my build.
To provide just a summary, MI no doubt synergizes so much better with Scoundrel.. man.. they have such nice class features..
a-w: CoS / Gloaming Cut
enc: Deft Strike / ITC / SS
deflect: 42% base with just dex/cha build without any silveries to defense (probably would reach 45 with Halfling)
gear: Profound Scoundrel
HP: a bit low, at around 33k mark. Probably could up maybe 3k? 4k? more if use CON belt
armor kit: just power
So basically, it's a non-optimized, 2nd rate gear and not at the BiS level, so people with more optimized builds would probably fare much better HP spec with around the same deflection.
The opening combo I would recommend is:
Deft Strike → SC daze proc (2s) → CoS x4 (+2s) → stealth → GC → GC → Shadow Strike → use full stealth to buy as much recharge time as possible → approach enemy and ITC right before stealth finished
Basically, in my tests, the best method to get as much out of Skullcracker daze was Deft Strike - CoS. CoS fires 2 shots per second, a very fast power, so even after you finish the CoS attack you typically have around 2 seconds left where the enemy is BOTH dazed AND slowed. An easy two full shots of GC to the backside, you're welcome to try more GC shots but the enemy is usually out of the daze/slow by that time... and finally a Shadow Strike as a combo finisher, another daze, giving you time for either safe retreat, or perhaps more attacks (but I find safe retreat much... well.. safer...)
With the right moves it seems quite a bit better than the initial disappointment, but currently, even with new combos and tactics, Scoundrel still needs more defense. We'll just have to see how version2 works out.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
i tried impact shot + lashing blade as a scoundrel and it works pretty nice. 7k impact + 23k lashing = 30k damage when i use my draconic set. drops to 25k total though when i swap to purified. dazing strike + lashing is relatively the same as well but impact might be easier to pull off with lashing.
Straight from preview, some useful tips to share for the aspiring Scoundrels...
1. If you aren't using First Strike, and you can risk a little bit higher stealth depletion... always attack in the order of:
at-will → your main attack
Use the 2.5s Concussive Strikes duration procced by your at-will, to land your main attack. The reason is to access the synergies from the T4 feat Low Blows - 25% more damage to those under control effect.
2. Best way to utilize the Skull Cracker effect to its maximum is;
encounter → proc SC → CoS x4
The reason is CoS is currently the fastest attack a TR has, and attacks around twice per second. When you use an encounter, immediately the 4s daze duration goes into effect. Within 2 seconds, CoS will land all 4 strikes required to lengthen the total daze duration to 6s, giving you a nice, 4s window to follow up with other attacks/combos.
3. Concussive Strikes + CoS: the stealth beater;
when entering a stealth vs. stealth fight against another TR, move around while repeated clicking CoS
When two TRs move around in stealth to find each other, it often comes down to the element of luck. However, when you do become lucky enough to cross paths, your fastest attack, CoS, will fire off. Just 1 hit from CoS, and that will proc Concussive Strikes and put the enemy TR into a daze, making him visible for those 2.5 seconds -- plenty of time to decide and execute your next move.
4. Even more stealth beaters
Blitz: A Blitz fired off and hitting the hidden TR, will cause the Skull Cracker daze and also make him visible
Whirlwind of Blades: A WoB fired off from stealth will always crit -- causing a Concussive Strike daze and also make a TR visible
5. Escape from ranged casters
just fling CoS like mad
if you have stealth... stealth, 1 throw of CoS, escape
Again, concussive strikes. At long last, we have a working counter to the dreaded Icy Rays. If you are caught by it, either start flinging CoS like mad, in hopes one of it crits and causes Concussive Strike, or simply go into stealth immediately and fling one knife. That will shut him up for 2.5 secs, enough time to break free and disappear.
The same applies to those pesky SW spells coming from far. Previously in live, we had to just assume we're dead, since we can't run towards the SW, nor can we really escape it. Now, fling those knives and shut him up.
6. The TR screw-job for Whisperknives
stealth fight → CoS to proc CS → 2~3 more CoS to deplete his stealth, and immediately VP, more CoS → enemy uses ITC → Shadow Strike, stealth → start counting 1..2..3..4.. → VP(teleport), stun → Dazing Strike
This is a tactic that uses all of the above. Basically the Scoundrel loses a bit of efficiency when fighting other MI TRs, because the can break free of that crucial daze you've inflicted and retaliate. This is basically a tactic that uses their tendency to use ITC, against them.
Stealthed fight occurs, both parties are searching. If you do come across and land that CoS, throw a few more and immediately throw VP. The MI, usually seeing that the daze is continuous and his stealth is depleted, usually go into ITC. As you see this happeneing throw a Shadow Strike. He'll probably also be throwing SS at you... so now both parties are stealthed again. But this time, you've got the VP mark on him. Count to four, his ITC ends, use VP to track through his stealth and stun him. Then land Dazing Strike, or whatever follow-up you wish.
It's a pretty cool and technical tactic to use.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
tankinatorfrMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 107Bounty Hunter
edited October 2014
Ok, I have tried the new scoundrel.
Look efficient. Still need to test it in dungeon, but it is really efficient in PvE. Before, enemy were not able to hit you because you were perma-stealth. Now, they are not able to hit you because they are perma-daze... ^^
(if you understand what I mean...)
Executioner is still not so efficient. To much power on not enough attacks, and nothing to continue the fight. No survival abilities, no DPS, no stealth...
Will need some rework I think, at least for PvE...
Also, the dodge change isn't implemented... I would be happy to get one more dodge, but longuer dodge ? We already loose precious seconds coming back to our enemy...
I don't see it happening s1nger. At least in PvP, the direction of the new TR changes are:
(1) no more continuous, steady stream of attacks from stealth
(2) encounter = damage, at-will = supplementary damage when out of stealth
(3) if you want to attack and deal real damage, you blow stealth and take the risk
(4) good judgement is now required on when to blow that stealth to attempt a big attack
So unless it's a really, really hectic battle between two "(new)perma" builds, the most useful enchantment is no doubt P.Vorpal.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I don't see it happening s1nger. At least in PvP, the direction of the new TR changes are:
(1) no more continuous, steady stream of attacks from stealth
(2) encounter = damage, at-will = supplementary damage when out of stealth
(3) if you want to attack and deal real damage, you blow stealth and take the risk
(4) good judgement is now required on when to blow that stealth to attempt a big attack
So unless it's a really, really hectic battle between two "(new)perma" builds, the most useful enchantment is no doubt P.Vorpal.
What a bout Saboteur tree? DF + Bile end stealth rotation(with ITC) and PoTB? I dont playing on preview and know what happened with tr's only from patch notes
Soo, name of m5 i'ts a "Back of original TR"?
What a bout Saboteur tree? DF + Bile end stealth rotation(with ITC) and PoTB? I dont playing on preview and know what happened with tr's only from patch notes
Soo, name of m5 i'ts a "Back of original TR"?
Definately not.
Executioner builds can 1-shot, but in terms of overall utility severely limited. IMO Executioner for PvP would rather be like a suicide bomber. IMO Sab builds in PvP will be most 'balanced' between attack-defense-survivability. Scoundrel will be highly specialized towards taking care of 'problematic' enemies and harassing them, and Executioner will probably be preferred by the best TRs, since what they lack in survivability and utility they usually substitute with experience and planning.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Comments
PvE TR is dead.
We can do semi-decent AoE damage with Blitz now and act like a bad CW with no control. But the stealth nerf and shift of Executioner to single-hit big numbers has killed us at bosses as we can't sustain damage like we used to. (Oh, Exe also lost a whopping 25% crit severity, and without Dazzling Blades our cooldowns are of course longer, so less LB if you're into that and less ItC for standing in those ever-present boss AoEs.)
Almost everything requires being in stealth now, which we cannot maintain as Exe even to the limited extent of non-Semi PvE exe playstyle. Or triggers off something dying(Hi, LOL bosses, especially Lostmauth, where that literally can't happen), or only works on the first hit for what, 250k when the boss has millions, or... Yeah. We're not building up the damage dealers like we used to - Deadly momentum was only 15%, but it was in or out of stealth; Brutal Backstab was 25% in stealth, now we only get 15% and only in stealth on Exe. Nothing sustains, it's all burst.
I have yet to do Saboteur testing, but from reports from other TRs I trust to evaluate PvE, it's not good for dungeon groups or boss DPS either. It may prove to be a more enjoyable playstyle; I'll have to look at it, but Executioner is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Stop looking at Paingiver and especially stop looking at those useless Lashing Blade e-peen numbers, Duelist's Flurry was always the core of your sustained DPS, but it's depricated now.
So far, the best loadout I've found for PvE dungeon clearing is Skillful Infiltrator/First Strike for passives, Gloaming Cut/Cloud of Steel as At-wills, Blitz/Impossible to Catch/Wicked Reminder as Encounters, and Whirlwind of Blades/Lurker's Assault as Dailies. Run in, Stealth, Blitz from Stealth as your alpha to destroy trash/soften up, what's left you empty WR charges into to debuff/damage and start using GC on, pound WoB as it hits, don't forget to use your DC sigil for more WoB power-boosting joy.
For bosses, I haven't found anything I'm happy with yet, although the above is nice for the older dungeons where there's a metric ton of trash that the CWs are piling on the boss and if you try to actually stay in melee range the adds are going to cream you(I'm looking at you, FH). I suspect it's probably going to end up as Skillful/Invisible Infiltrator, Shadow Strike/ItC/WR, Gloaming/CoS and WoB/LA or maybe ending up with Bloodbath of all things in there because a dead or controlled TR does 0 damage. That may end up coming about even to where we are now for effectiveness, which is... Massively disappointing given that even isn't really where we needed to end up.
Also, to the Deft Strike person, in place of *what*, and exactly what do you expect to Deft Strike *to* for AoEs at, say, eLOL final boss? XD XD XD
So, our boss effectiveness is down, our survival is down(Less ItC due to longer cooldowns means less tolerance for getting pounded by adds or standing in red circles and more being controlled, and over the course of a boss the cooldowns *do* in fact matter), and we all know we aren't going to keep the damage because it's going to get nerfed due to PvP crying like it always has.
Worse, while Exe so far still seems to be the best PvE path, it's also massively gear-dependent because so much of it goes off your power, leaving the lower-GSed TRs even further behind.
So we've lost... Quite a lot. And gained very little, and what we did gain we won't keep. Hells, I've already seen people complaining about Blitz damage in PvE, so even that gain is of questionable lifespan.
We may end up very slightly ahead in the short term. But it won't last, and then we'll be worse off than we were before. I'm not looking forward to that and I hope you aren't either.
This is 100% about PvP(There's an executioner feat useless outside of PvP, for that matter), and 0% about PvE, and it shows, and it's just plain not good in PvE. Which is a shame because I hate PvP and don't do it unless I have to, and even then it's generally just to do the PvP phase of GG for coins/daily/glory to get more Raven Skulls to feed to my Power artifacts.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
loadout is up to you
well:
it's meant to increase survivability moreso than gap-closing. if only it had dodge frames >.>
Encounters: Deft Strike, Dazing Strike, Smoke Bomb/ITC.
At-Wills: Sly Flourish, Cloud of Steel.
Class Features: Skillful Infiltrator, Tenacious Concealment.
Dailies: Bloodbath, Courage Breaker.
Feats:
- Shady Preparations: 10% decreased CD for encounters whenever you enter Stealth.
- Roll with the Punches: 2.5% Deflect
- Survivor: 10% Deflect when HP% is less than 30%.
- Concussive Strikes: 2.5 seconds of Daze whenever you strike your from Behind or when you deal Critical Damage.
- Low Blows: 25% increased damage against controlled opponents.
- Mocking Gesture: 10% increased Deflect after entering Stealth for 10 seconds.
- Skull Cracker: 4 seconds of Daze whenever you use an Encounter while you have the Skull Cracker buff on.
So it goes like this.
1. Deft Strike: Opponent slowed by 80%, dazed for 4 seconds from Skull Cracker + 2.5 seconds from Concussive Strikes = 6.5 seconds Daze.
2. Sly Flourish x 4: 2 seconds extra Daze. 6.5 + 2 = 8.5
3. Dazing Strike: Roughly 3 seconds of Daze in average. 8.5 + 3 = 11.5
4. 10 seconds is over, Concussive Strike is ready again. Deft Strike is ready again.
5. Rinse and repeat.
ITC/Smoke bomb is used to escape hairy situations and or support teammates. And we have not factored Stealth uptime in this build yet.
This build is highly dependent on the assumption that the Concussive Strikes Daze and Skull Cracker Daze STACKS on top of one another. This has yet to be tested, although I highly doubt that they do stack. If by any chance they do not stack, it's not that hard to think of another rotation that will make full use of the right timings for the Daze effects.
I just wanted to chime in on a new possible way to play the Scoundrel as a Reflect/Deflect Rogue, whose play style is something I appreciate a lot.
I'm gearing up for a pretty neat Saboteur build myself. No other path for me to take other than Stealth as of the moment.
The daze isn't cumulative/stacking, tod. At an ideal situation you can extend the total daze time to around 9 secs, considering that some time during the SC daze the Deft Strike slow will wear off.. and you'll have to land Dazing Strike a bit early before the enemy mvoes too far away.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
It goes:
1. stealth
2. 3rd hit DF (should take you out of stealth)
3. Dazing Strike. This will refill stealth (OWtS). Another DF while target is dazed
4. Roll out into stealth
5. 3rd hit DF
6. Deft Strike followed by Dazing Strike. Return to Shadows feat will refill entire stealth bar
7. DF target while dazed, then roll out into stealth
8. 3rd hit DF
9. Shadow Strike, then roll out into stealth.
10. By this point, OWtS should be back up.
11. Repeat everything
So the only time you're out of stealth is the 3rd DF hit
I managed this on a with a 1.1k recovery WK. So you more geared MIs should yeild better results
Butters TR PVP
We need a way to defend ourselves from the rest of the enemies while hitting one of them.
any decent player can dodge out df when it started making dazing useles
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
I'm no perma. I've never played it or have any intention of playing it, but I decided to give the new sab tree a try.
Honestly, it's bloody easy to be a [clumsy, heavy-handed] PvE perma. Just spec your sab build, add shadow strike, deft strike, your choice (it really won't matter. honestly), and gloaming cut. I had no problem staying in stealth. I soloed a couple HEs (which I couldn't do as exe, sco, or hybrid). Generally, it worked and I stayed alive.
However, it was as dull as playing an AoE archery HR.
Deft, stealth, gloam (until empty), SS, stealth, Gloam (until empty) repeat. When the target's dead, deft and repeat. I rarely used my 3rd slot - trying to use WR got me killed, ITC was mostly a waste of time and stealth. I tried lurker's a couple times, but only to refill when I ****ed up my rotation.
Yeah, dull.
PvP. however... well, since I'm not experienced using a perma build, I did some damage, but ultimately died pretty quickly as I lacked the required finesse.
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
I'll see if I can post my build.
To provide just a summary, MI no doubt synergizes so much better with Scoundrel.. man.. they have such nice class features..
a-w: CoS / Gloaming Cut
enc: Deft Strike / ITC / SS
deflect: 42% base with just dex/cha build without any silveries to defense (probably would reach 45 with Halfling)
gear: Profound Scoundrel
HP: a bit low, at around 33k mark. Probably could up maybe 3k? 4k? more if use CON belt
armor kit: just power
So basically, it's a non-optimized, 2nd rate gear and not at the BiS level, so people with more optimized builds would probably fare much better HP spec with around the same deflection.
The opening combo I would recommend is:
Deft Strike → SC daze proc (2s) → CoS x4 (+2s) → stealth → GC → GC → Shadow Strike → use full stealth to buy as much recharge time as possible → approach enemy and ITC right before stealth finished
Basically, in my tests, the best method to get as much out of Skullcracker daze was Deft Strike - CoS. CoS fires 2 shots per second, a very fast power, so even after you finish the CoS attack you typically have around 2 seconds left where the enemy is BOTH dazed AND slowed. An easy two full shots of GC to the backside, you're welcome to try more GC shots but the enemy is usually out of the daze/slow by that time... and finally a Shadow Strike as a combo finisher, another daze, giving you time for either safe retreat, or perhaps more attacks (but I find safe retreat much... well.. safer...)
With the right moves it seems quite a bit better than the initial disappointment, but currently, even with new combos and tactics, Scoundrel still needs more defense. We'll just have to see how version2 works out.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
imagine someone with a vorpal....
1. If you aren't using First Strike, and you can risk a little bit higher stealth depletion... always attack in the order of:
at-will → your main attack
Use the 2.5s Concussive Strikes duration procced by your at-will, to land your main attack. The reason is to access the synergies from the T4 feat Low Blows - 25% more damage to those under control effect.
2. Best way to utilize the Skull Cracker effect to its maximum is;
encounter → proc SC → CoS x4
The reason is CoS is currently the fastest attack a TR has, and attacks around twice per second. When you use an encounter, immediately the 4s daze duration goes into effect. Within 2 seconds, CoS will land all 4 strikes required to lengthen the total daze duration to 6s, giving you a nice, 4s window to follow up with other attacks/combos.
3. Concussive Strikes + CoS: the stealth beater;
when entering a stealth vs. stealth fight against another TR, move around while repeated clicking CoS
When two TRs move around in stealth to find each other, it often comes down to the element of luck. However, when you do become lucky enough to cross paths, your fastest attack, CoS, will fire off. Just 1 hit from CoS, and that will proc Concussive Strikes and put the enemy TR into a daze, making him visible for those 2.5 seconds -- plenty of time to decide and execute your next move.
4. Even more stealth beaters
Blitz: A Blitz fired off and hitting the hidden TR, will cause the Skull Cracker daze and also make him visible
Whirlwind of Blades: A WoB fired off from stealth will always crit -- causing a Concussive Strike daze and also make a TR visible
5. Escape from ranged casters
just fling CoS like mad
if you have stealth... stealth, 1 throw of CoS, escape
Again, concussive strikes. At long last, we have a working counter to the dreaded Icy Rays. If you are caught by it, either start flinging CoS like mad, in hopes one of it crits and causes Concussive Strike, or simply go into stealth immediately and fling one knife. That will shut him up for 2.5 secs, enough time to break free and disappear.
The same applies to those pesky SW spells coming from far. Previously in live, we had to just assume we're dead, since we can't run towards the SW, nor can we really escape it. Now, fling those knives and shut him up.
6. The TR screw-job for Whisperknives
stealth fight → CoS to proc CS → 2~3 more CoS to deplete his stealth, and immediately VP, more CoS → enemy uses ITC → Shadow Strike, stealth → start counting 1..2..3..4.. → VP(teleport), stun → Dazing Strike
This is a tactic that uses all of the above. Basically the Scoundrel loses a bit of efficiency when fighting other MI TRs, because the can break free of that crucial daze you've inflicted and retaliate. This is basically a tactic that uses their tendency to use ITC, against them.
Stealthed fight occurs, both parties are searching. If you do come across and land that CoS, throw a few more and immediately throw VP. The MI, usually seeing that the daze is continuous and his stealth is depleted, usually go into ITC. As you see this happeneing throw a Shadow Strike. He'll probably also be throwing SS at you... so now both parties are stealthed again. But this time, you've got the VP mark on him. Count to four, his ITC ends, use VP to track through his stealth and stun him. Then land Dazing Strike, or whatever follow-up you wish.
It's a pretty cool and technical tactic to use.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Look efficient. Still need to test it in dungeon, but it is really efficient in PvE. Before, enemy were not able to hit you because you were perma-stealth. Now, they are not able to hit you because they are perma-daze... ^^
(if you understand what I mean...)
Executioner is still not so efficient. To much power on not enough attacks, and nothing to continue the fight. No survival abilities, no DPS, no stealth...
Will need some rework I think, at least for PvE...
Also, the dodge change isn't implemented... I would be happy to get one more dodge, but longuer dodge ? We already loose precious seconds coming back to our enemy...
I don't see it happening s1nger. At least in PvP, the direction of the new TR changes are:
(1) no more continuous, steady stream of attacks from stealth
(2) encounter = damage, at-will = supplementary damage when out of stealth
(3) if you want to attack and deal real damage, you blow stealth and take the risk
(4) good judgement is now required on when to blow that stealth to attempt a big attack
So unless it's a really, really hectic battle between two "(new)perma" builds, the most useful enchantment is no doubt P.Vorpal.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
What a bout Saboteur tree? DF + Bile end stealth rotation(with ITC) and PoTB? I dont playing on preview and know what happened with tr's only from patch notes
Soo, name of m5 i'ts a "Back of original TR"?
Definately not.
Executioner builds can 1-shot, but in terms of overall utility severely limited. IMO Executioner for PvP would rather be like a suicide bomber. IMO Sab builds in PvP will be most 'balanced' between attack-defense-survivability. Scoundrel will be highly specialized towards taking care of 'problematic' enemies and harassing them, and Executioner will probably be preferred by the best TRs, since what they lack in survivability and utility they usually substitute with experience and planning.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'