So, let me get this straight, OP. You want to change this from a free market economy, to a socialist economy? Short answer, no, long answer nooooooooo. This is how economies work.
I do not agree with what the OP suggests for changes. People should be able to post items for however much they want. That's part of economics of any MMO. The possibility of getting sniped and someone else's item selling instead of yours will always be there. I just check my high end items each day to prevent this from being an issue. Most I've ever had to take something down and repost it was 3 to 4 times.
I think the AH posting fee should stay as is as well. Its kind of a tradeoff if you will. Is it worth it to you to eat the posting fee a second time to remove and repost the item? Or should you just let it sit there and ride out the 5 day timer and take a chance it'll sell at its current price?
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if people want to undercut you to sell their item, they can and will. it's their item, they can do what they want with it. I've undercut others and I've had others undercut me. it's the way it works. from the seller's point of view, it might seem frustrating, but it's beneficial overall because it helps to keep prices down.
I'm curious to know if the OP has NEVER undercut anyone.
So I should take an 80,000 loss just for your amusement?
LMAO, your idea is ridiculous.
Markets are driven by competition.
Saying that someone shouldn't be able to beat your price without dropping 10% of profit is...just no.
Put it up in AH with no min bid and then watch it. If you have to recall and repost it then it will not cost you.
2 - If someone wants to post a new item it must be either the same price (or higher) as the lowest item (and goes into it's proper place in line) or at least 10% lower than the lowest price.
That's just stupid, honestly. People can put up items for whatever price they want and if it sells, it sells.
LMAO, your idea is ridiculous.
Markets are driven by competition.
Saying that someone shouldn't be able to beat your price without dropping 10% of profit is...just no.
Put it up in AH with no min bid and then watch it. If you have to recall and repost it then it will not cost you.
On Ebay and even in the "real" markets they usually don't let you bid in small denominations to avoid abuse. Otherwise you have people bidding 0.01 to outbid people. It's kind of the same thing here, 1AD is the equivalent of 1 penny. It's not a matter of "free" market it's a matter of keeping things sane.
On Ebay and even in the "real" markets they usually don't let you bid in small denominations to avoid abuse. Otherwise you have people bidding 0.01 to outbid people. It's kind of the same thing here, 1AD is the equivalent of 1 penny. It's not a matter of "free" market it's a matter of keeping things sane.
Say they made it 5ad or 50ad or whatever. You'd have the op back with the same comment. The step is irrelevant in a non-real world economy.
On Ebay and even in the "real" markets they usually don't let you bid in small denominations to avoid abuse. Otherwise you have people bidding 0.01 to outbid people. It's kind of the same thing here, 1AD is the equivalent of 1 penny. It's not a matter of "free" market it's a matter of keeping things sane.
the matter is not about bidding, but posting.
does ebay prevent you from posting a similar item as someone else for a cheaper price to allow you a better chance of selling it?
if people want to undercut you to sell their item, they can and will. it's their item, they can do what they want with it. I've undercut others and I've had others undercut me. it's the way it works. from the seller's point of view, it might seem frustrating, but it's beneficial overall because it helps to keep prices down.
I'm curious to know if the OP has NEVER undercut anyone.
I didn't read it the same way as you. The OP didn't say undercutting needs to be stopped, just that you shouldn't be able to undercut by 1AD. If you think the current price is wrong, or you want to sell something fast, you post it noticeably cheaper (That's better for the buyers right?). Posting by 1AD lower is kind of gaming the system to make your item show up first on the list without truly offering a lower price.
I didn't read it the same way as you. The OP didn't say undercutting needs to be stopped, just that you shouldn't be able to undercut by 1AD. If you think the current price is wrong, or you want to sell something fast, you post it noticeably cheaper (That's better for the buyers right?). Posting by 1AD lower is kind of gaming the system to make your item show up first on the list without truly offering a lower price.
you didn't answer my question. does ebay allow you to post your item at whatever price you choose, relevant of the cheapest price for the same item by other posters, or does it have to be a certain set percentage? I'm not being pedantic, not being an ebay user, I don't know.
I can understand them having such a system in place for bids placed on items, but for a seller, in my opinion, it should be their prerogative as to what they set the list prices at.
I'm sure we've all experienced the woes of the undercutters. What I think is needed is one or more of the following.
1 - Ability to modify buyout price without taking down auction.
2 - If someone wants to post a new item it must be either the same price (or higher) as the lowest item (and goes into it's proper place in line) or at least 10% lower than the lowest price.
It's pretty ridiculous that you can get locked out of selling an item because of folks posting a couple of AD lower.... If they want to post for a quick sale, np, but require it to be at least 10% lower than the lowest price.
1) This could work, but it would probably make the undercutting even worse. I would more like to see that you can reput items on sale for free second time if the buyout price is clearly out of line from the ending time price range.
2) Straight NO! this would make the prices to plummet in many cases and this would be so much against free markets that you start to look like a communist. It is the law of the markets that you must sale for lower price if you want to get your stuff sold and if you can't compete in such environment, you are doing something wrong and need to rethink your strategy. Couple AD lower is what it should be to get an advantage, what I don't understand is why some people put 1k or even 20% in some cases, clearly plummeting articles permanently that have been making nice profits.
What I find ridiculous is that you want to plummet prices just because somebody is cutting you short, when you probably are doing it yourself and if you aren't, it simply is your own fault you don't get your things sold.
Give us 4 or more power/item bar profiles so we can change powers and items with one click that are suited for the situation.
what I don't understand is why some people put 1k or even 20% in some cases, clearly plummeting articles permanently that have been making nice profits.
This is somewhat incomprehensible to me too, as very rarely does even a 20% cut actually result in a sale as people will simply undercut by a small amount and all that happens is that all sellers lose money.
If you really want to sell an item undercut by 30-50% and someone will almost certainly buy it - if not to use themselves then to re-list, but either way you will get your money. Any less than 30% rarely works as the AH cut makes it too dangerous for people to try to flip, and so they will simply undercut you slightly and so every seller is worse off..
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truelokasterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1Arc User
edited September 2014
1st I think that the OP is actually annoyed by the posting fees and is worried to lose his original investment if someone undercuts him and he would have to repost a couple of Ad's cheaper. Although his interpretation seems quite limited or somewhat childish is how an AH or any market economy should work.
2nd Limiting the minimum price of an item is the worst idea ever!
So your ok with posting an item for 4,000,000 AD and 2 people putting it up for 3,999,999 after those 2 sell, another 2 come up for that same price? I'm not making this example up.
Re-read my post. It's fine if someone wants to price for a quick sale, just do it 10% lower. Pricing something at 3,999,999 when the lowest item up is 4,000,000 is just cutting the line, not offering a better price.
Are you trying to sell the STR belt by any chance, lol
I love to burst bubbles.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Lol, so if the op decides he wants to post something for 4mil then no-one else is allowed to post same item anywhere near his price??? Gave me a good laugh !
Sorry but I don't like this idea at all. Some of the prices on AH are way overpriced and need to be undercut. Also what if someone posts for a ridiculous amount, then no one can lower the price ?
Another reason why I think it's a bad idea is because sometimes I need fast ad and post an item cheap, with your idea I would have to wait a very long time for that one item to sell.
I think the undercut argument is mute. its competitive pricing. further more it helps the poorer part of the community such as myself get stuff cheaper, and sell stuff quicker, yep I undercut for quick sale because 9 times outta 10 I may have 25 or 30K ad period. and need more for that one thing that makes me cuss at its expensive overprice. when it comes to the AH I am not looking for fans from people selling stuff at outrageous prices to begin with. i will sell my stuff to see that AD in my pocket maybe with in 30 minutes. I don't bother with starting bids either. just buyout prices.
as to the suggestions made by the op. there's too many other things in this game and in the ah to fix (like bringing enchanted keys back ) this game was supposed to be all content accessible whether you payed real money or not , the ceo of cryptic said that when the game first came out. I understand why these things were put in place but the delivery , needs work.
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited September 2014
The entire point of setting a minimum bid is to attempt to save yourself from undercuts. Make that the lowest amount you want to allow that item go for, because it is very likely that your bid amount will remain lower than the buyout price of an undercutter, or even several of them. Yes, it means you may need to wait for the auction to expire to see any AD. Set a shorter time frame if you're worried about that. Bargain hunters do actually pay attention to bid prices.
I'd rather take a chance on an item not selling even to bidding and forfeit the posting fee that way than keep yanking my auctions and forfeit it for sure.
Welcome to sales, game world or real world. People will buy for whoever has the lowest price, even if it's one red cent. The simple fact is, if your item isn't selling, then your price isn't right. Period. If you literally have people undercutting you to the point your item doesn't sell, the problem isn't 1 AD. If they're still on the list for you to see - their item isn't selling either. So their "line jumping" hasn't aided them one bit.
And never, never, take an item down before the auction time is up. If three people list it for 1 AD lower, just ignore them. If you'e got a reasonable price, yours will sell, it just might take an extra day. Never "sit" on an auction. Post it and forget about it until it sells or comes back to you. If it comes back, relook at the market and decide if you're price was too high before relisting.
If you want instant gratification, sell to the vendor, don't auction. (Yes, I know you don't get AD that way, but if you're that frustrated by how an auction works, then don't auction. There's other ways to get AD.)
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
It is based on the buyout price if no bid is set, and setting a minimum bid that's lower than a reasonable selling price is a very dangerous game.
It is only dangerous if you can't be bothered to check back on your item even once for the next five days.
I don't think they should change the minimum bidding process in the AH just because you can't be bothered to check on your own items that you've posted. There is already a solution to the OPs problem. Post with a minimum bid of 1(I mistakenly said no min. bid earlier in thread) and check on YOUR OWN stuff.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
It is only dangerous if you can't be bothered to check back on your item even once for the next five days.
Are you suggesting that if you put up a minimum bid of 1AD and it looks like you're going to end up selling for a lot less than you wanted, that you need to get a friend to bid it up for you or something?
Once somebody bids on your 1AD item, it's getting sold, whether or not you like the price. Better to set a bid you can live with in the first place and not have to resort to any tricks.
Are you suggesting that if you put up a minimum bid of 1AD and it looks like you're going to end up selling for a lot less than you wanted, that you need to get a friend to bid it up for you or something?
Once somebody bids on your 1AD item, it's getting sold, whether or not you like the price. Better to set a bid you can live with in the first place and not have to resort to any tricks.
In market games everything that works is acceptable.
- If you want to gamble, you can create second account/ask friend to bid until the bid is high enough for you, but there is the risk of losing 10% of the price with still the item on your hand.
- You can put starting price of 1 AD to make sure the item is sold and probably attract many bidders if the item is wanted, but there is risk of selling it seriously under-priced. This rarely happens with the wanted items, bid prices ending in +/- 20% of the current list prices, but don't do this with items people want instantly (potions, scrolls etc) or they will go under the list price guaranteed, nor with items only few people will be looking, like blue/green items that will be likely sold with 1 or few AD and thus you will sell it for less than you would get from the silver selling it for scraps. Any bid will block you from taking the item out, so 1 AD starting price is also risk with items you are just seeing if they get sold to lock a sales slot out until the bid maturates.
- You can put reasonable starting price that is the lowest you are willing to accept from the item. This will lower your posting fees, but you still have risk of not selling the item, you attract less bidders, you are competitive for undercutters, but won't possibly sell in that case so fast.
Personally I usually play by the markets with only buyout price, but might safeguard with lowest I am willing to go if I suspect a downward trend. Markets is the traditional zero-sum game where somebody always gains when someone loses and thus not everyone can win in it, but that doesn't necessarily mean they can't earn something from it.
Give us 4 or more power/item bar profiles so we can change powers and items with one click that are suited for the situation.
What I would like is some sort of way to track selling prices of items. I too am tired of listing relatively rare items for sale and not really knowing what a reasonable market price is, and then having to relist the item later, losing my posting fee, when it doesn't sell because I posted it too high. Or, worse yet, losing out on some AD when I posted it too low and it sold instantly because a flipper just took the item and listed it for 2x of my price.
I'm sure we've all experienced the woes of the undercutters. What I think is needed is one or more of the following.
1 - Ability to modify buyout price without taking down auction.
2 - If someone wants to post a new item it must be either the same price (or higher) as the lowest item (and goes into it's proper place in line) or at least 10% lower than the lowest price.
It's pretty ridiculous that you can get locked out of selling an item because of folks posting a couple of AD lower.... If they want to post for a quick sale, np, but require it to be at least 10% lower than the lowest price.
I recognize AH usability is terrible, but things that actually work are those 2 you want to change.
First, no easy undercutting, if you want to relist your item for 1AD less you have to take a 2% hit (posting fee).
Second, again, no easy undercutting. If you want to play the 1AD game it's at your own risk, if you put an item at 1AD less than the previous guy, then 10 other people put items at 1AD less than your price because they can afford it, it's how things go. You should have put the item at lower price in the first place.
What we *NEED* are better ways of sorting, filtering, managing, posting, and especially *collecting* (items or ADs) on the AH (currently there are no decent filters, and even those that exist, don't work at all).
Currently if I use gateway I can't see the 99x stacks of Peridots (400 items limit), there's no way to do it. And if I use ingame AH and I need only 1 peridot, I have to scroll dozens of pages of 99x stacks! It's terrible in both ways.
Also, we can't filter profession items based on their properties (there's no way to filter out resources and see only assets for example).
We can't find "exact" names as well, if I need a "potion of tidespan" I might not be able to buy it (or have to scroll 20 pages) because there are 400 listings of greater potions of tidespan, lesser potions of tidespan, minor potions of tidespan etc.
We can't see "real" prices (i.e. prices at which items are effectively traded) for less traded items, so we often have to guess a good price and it often ends in either too high (nobody buys, and you lose money) or too low (you lose money again)
AH needs a big overhaul, but not for the OP's reasons
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Lol, so if the op decides he wants to post something for 4mil then no-one else is allowed to post same item anywhere near his price??? Gave me a good laugh !
No, he doesn't want other people to be able to undercut him....but he wants to be able to undercut them....uh...right.
I do this all the time. I get upset when people undercut more than 1AD, they are killing my margins.
Wait, you undercut me by 1AD to sell faster than I do, at my same price (minus 1AD, just to be shown above my offer in the AH rather than putting the same price and letting the RNG gods decide), and I should care about your margins?
Comments
I think the AH posting fee should stay as is as well. Its kind of a tradeoff if you will. Is it worth it to you to eat the posting fee a second time to remove and repost the item? Or should you just let it sit there and ride out the 5 day timer and take a chance it'll sell at its current price?
...
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...
I'm curious to know if the OP has NEVER undercut anyone.
Markets are driven by competition.
Saying that someone shouldn't be able to beat your price without dropping 10% of profit is...just no.
Put it up in AH with no min bid and then watch it. If you have to recall and repost it then it will not cost you.
That's just stupid, honestly. People can put up items for whatever price they want and if it sells, it sells.
On Ebay and even in the "real" markets they usually don't let you bid in small denominations to avoid abuse. Otherwise you have people bidding 0.01 to outbid people. It's kind of the same thing here, 1AD is the equivalent of 1 penny. It's not a matter of "free" market it's a matter of keeping things sane.
the matter is not about bidding, but posting.
does ebay prevent you from posting a similar item as someone else for a cheaper price to allow you a better chance of selling it?
I didn't read it the same way as you. The OP didn't say undercutting needs to be stopped, just that you shouldn't be able to undercut by 1AD. If you think the current price is wrong, or you want to sell something fast, you post it noticeably cheaper (That's better for the buyers right?). Posting by 1AD lower is kind of gaming the system to make your item show up first on the list without truly offering a lower price.
you didn't answer my question. does ebay allow you to post your item at whatever price you choose, relevant of the cheapest price for the same item by other posters, or does it have to be a certain set percentage? I'm not being pedantic, not being an ebay user, I don't know.
I can understand them having such a system in place for bids placed on items, but for a seller, in my opinion, it should be their prerogative as to what they set the list prices at.
1) This could work, but it would probably make the undercutting even worse. I would more like to see that you can reput items on sale for free second time if the buyout price is clearly out of line from the ending time price range.
2) Straight NO! this would make the prices to plummet in many cases and this would be so much against free markets that you start to look like a communist. It is the law of the markets that you must sale for lower price if you want to get your stuff sold and if you can't compete in such environment, you are doing something wrong and need to rethink your strategy. Couple AD lower is what it should be to get an advantage, what I don't understand is why some people put 1k or even 20% in some cases, clearly plummeting articles permanently that have been making nice profits.
What I find ridiculous is that you want to plummet prices just because somebody is cutting you short, when you probably are doing it yourself and if you aren't, it simply is your own fault you don't get your things sold.
This is somewhat incomprehensible to me too, as very rarely does even a 20% cut actually result in a sale as people will simply undercut by a small amount and all that happens is that all sellers lose money.
If you really want to sell an item undercut by 30-50% and someone will almost certainly buy it - if not to use themselves then to re-list, but either way you will get your money. Any less than 30% rarely works as the AH cut makes it too dangerous for people to try to flip, and so they will simply undercut you slightly and so every seller is worse off..
2nd Limiting the minimum price of an item is the worst idea ever!
If you set a minimum bid, this determines your posting fee. If you allow no bids, posting fee is determined by your buyout price.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Another reason why I think it's a bad idea is because sometimes I need fast ad and post an item cheap, with your idea I would have to wait a very long time for that one item to sell.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
as to the suggestions made by the op. there's too many other things in this game and in the ah to fix (like bringing enchanted keys back ) this game was supposed to be all content accessible whether you payed real money or not , the ceo of cryptic said that when the game first came out. I understand why these things were put in place but the delivery , needs work.
~Vladimar Zul - Fury build SW ~
~Takadump onzcrapper - Iron vangaurd GF~
I'd rather take a chance on an item not selling even to bidding and forfeit the posting fee that way than keep yanking my auctions and forfeit it for sure.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Unless there is 0 of that item, you yourself are undercutting someone else.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
And never, never, take an item down before the auction time is up. If three people list it for 1 AD lower, just ignore them. If you'e got a reasonable price, yours will sell, it just might take an extra day. Never "sit" on an auction. Post it and forget about it until it sells or comes back to you. If it comes back, relook at the market and decide if you're price was too high before relisting.
If you want instant gratification, sell to the vendor, don't auction. (Yes, I know you don't get AD that way, but if you're that frustrated by how an auction works, then don't auction. There's other ways to get AD.)
It is based on the buyout price if no bid is set, and setting a minimum bid that's lower than a reasonable selling price is a very dangerous game.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
It is only dangerous if you can't be bothered to check back on your item even once for the next five days.
I don't think they should change the minimum bidding process in the AH just because you can't be bothered to check on your own items that you've posted. There is already a solution to the OPs problem. Post with a minimum bid of 1(I mistakenly said no min. bid earlier in thread) and check on YOUR OWN stuff.
Are you suggesting that if you put up a minimum bid of 1AD and it looks like you're going to end up selling for a lot less than you wanted, that you need to get a friend to bid it up for you or something?
Once somebody bids on your 1AD item, it's getting sold, whether or not you like the price. Better to set a bid you can live with in the first place and not have to resort to any tricks.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
In market games everything that works is acceptable.
- If you want to gamble, you can create second account/ask friend to bid until the bid is high enough for you, but there is the risk of losing 10% of the price with still the item on your hand.
- You can put starting price of 1 AD to make sure the item is sold and probably attract many bidders if the item is wanted, but there is risk of selling it seriously under-priced. This rarely happens with the wanted items, bid prices ending in +/- 20% of the current list prices, but don't do this with items people want instantly (potions, scrolls etc) or they will go under the list price guaranteed, nor with items only few people will be looking, like blue/green items that will be likely sold with 1 or few AD and thus you will sell it for less than you would get from the silver selling it for scraps. Any bid will block you from taking the item out, so 1 AD starting price is also risk with items you are just seeing if they get sold to lock a sales slot out until the bid maturates.
- You can put reasonable starting price that is the lowest you are willing to accept from the item. This will lower your posting fees, but you still have risk of not selling the item, you attract less bidders, you are competitive for undercutters, but won't possibly sell in that case so fast.
Personally I usually play by the markets with only buyout price, but might safeguard with lowest I am willing to go if I suspect a downward trend. Markets is the traditional zero-sum game where somebody always gains when someone loses and thus not everyone can win in it, but that doesn't necessarily mean they can't earn something from it.
I recognize AH usability is terrible, but things that actually work are those 2 you want to change.
First, no easy undercutting, if you want to relist your item for 1AD less you have to take a 2% hit (posting fee).
Second, again, no easy undercutting. If you want to play the 1AD game it's at your own risk, if you put an item at 1AD less than the previous guy, then 10 other people put items at 1AD less than your price because they can afford it, it's how things go. You should have put the item at lower price in the first place.
What we *NEED* are better ways of sorting, filtering, managing, posting, and especially *collecting* (items or ADs) on the AH (currently there are no decent filters, and even those that exist, don't work at all).
Currently if I use gateway I can't see the 99x stacks of Peridots (400 items limit), there's no way to do it. And if I use ingame AH and I need only 1 peridot, I have to scroll dozens of pages of 99x stacks! It's terrible in both ways.
Also, we can't filter profession items based on their properties (there's no way to filter out resources and see only assets for example).
We can't find "exact" names as well, if I need a "potion of tidespan" I might not be able to buy it (or have to scroll 20 pages) because there are 400 listings of greater potions of tidespan, lesser potions of tidespan, minor potions of tidespan etc.
We can't see "real" prices (i.e. prices at which items are effectively traded) for less traded items, so we often have to guess a good price and it often ends in either too high (nobody buys, and you lose money) or too low (you lose money again)
AH needs a big overhaul, but not for the OP's reasons
No, he doesn't want other people to be able to undercut him....but he wants to be able to undercut them....uh...right.
Wait, you undercut me by 1AD to sell faster than I do, at my same price (minus 1AD, just to be shown above my offer in the AH rather than putting the same price and letting the RNG gods decide), and I should care about your margins?