Uh...there's no shortage of bots. In fact I doubt Cryptic has done anything to combat the bots since the last time they changed the chat spam filter.
If you don't believe me use the command, "/who old sharandar ruins", in game. Practically every one of those TRs is a bot, and there's generally more than the 100 character limit at work botting that instance 24 hours a day. There's no shortage of bots, they're just holding back most of the enchantments for when warlocks are added, the cost of refining points will explode.
Uh...there's no shortage of bots. In fact I doubt Cryptic has done anything to combat the bots since the last time they changed the chat spam filter.
If you don't believe me use the command, "/who old sharandar ruins", in game. Practically every one of those TRs is a bot, and there's generally more than the 100 character limit at work botting that instance 24 hours a day. There's no shortage of bots, they're just holding back most of the enchantments for when warlocks are added, the cost of refining points will explode.
Holding back for a whole month in advance seems excessive, especially if you can't be sure if you're going to keep your account. They have been temp banning ad buyers, so I assumed they'd probably do the same for sellers and also botters with the lack of stacks of peridots/rank 4s etc.
I don't have a problem with the RP system. Sure it's going to take me a while to get my first artifact maxed out, but if I do my dailies and skirmishes and foundaries I usually end up with 2 to 4 levels per week on an artifact. That means it'll still take me months to get it to epic, but I'm fine with that, it still feels like an attainable goal to me.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
...
I don't have a problem with the RP system. Sure it's going to take me a while to get my first artifact maxed out, but if I do my dailies and skirmishes and foundaries I usually end up with 2 to 4 levels per week on an artifact. That means it'll still take me months to get it to epic, but I'm fine with that, it still feels like an attainable goal to me.
1,152.35 rank 4s (-crit chance) to get to epic. That's achievable in time.
14,250.5 rank 4s for legendary. That's 2850 times of dragging enchantments into slots. Not really achievable from farming and it's a hassle even if it was.
Now do this for all 3 of your artifacts. I hope you don't ever want any of the newer artifacts that ever come out.
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shavaruinMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 32Arc User
edited July 2014
boo hoo
Buy stacks of 99 skill kits, grab 2-3 normal fey blessing enchants (the same you could have spent on a stack or two of rank 5s) and run IWD. Basically, get your grind on. This is an MMORPG, not a flash game designed to be beat in 2-3 days. People play MMORPGs for years and don't achieve BiS status. It's not supposed to be easy. ^^
boo hoo
Buy stacks of 99 skill kits, grab 2-3 normal fey blessing enchants (the same you could have spent on a stack or two of rank 5s) and run IWD. Basically, get your grind on. This is an MMORPG, not a flash game designed to be beat in 2-3 days. People play MMORPGs for years and don't achieve BiS status. It's not supposed to be easy. ^^
Unless you meant lesser feys, then you could get 2-3 stacks for the cost of 1 normal fey blessing. It'd need to proc 800-1200 extra times for it to just break even per fey blessing. Like I said 15x cost over lesser fey, 100% boost. Not worth it.
If we ignored the fact that kits gave you rank 3s, and you always got a rank 4 and you did on average 25 a day which is a reasonably high amount as being pretty generous with the drop rates, it'd still take you 570 days to get just 1 artifact to legendary. In 570 days, I think a lot of people will move onto something else where the makers aren't greedy and can actually plan well.
Of course people like you like to accuse people who criticise a clearly poor system of crying and take it or even support such companies and encouraging companies to further focus more on profit margins than making a quality product since people just accept it anyway.
I'm not some newbies crying coz I can't put in the effort. I'm a long time player that has put many hours into the game each day and can actually be objective.
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shavaruinMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 32Arc User
edited July 2014
If we ignored the fact that kits gave you rank 3s, and you always got a rank 4 and you did on average 25 a day which is a reasonably high amount as being pretty generous with the drop rates, it'd still take you 570 days to get just 1 artifact to legendary. In 570 days, I think a lot of people will move onto something else where the makers aren't greedy and can actually plan well.
Thank you for blatantly ignoring the fact that lesser fey blessing, or normal fey blessing proc and drop quite often if you take the time to farm or grind. It has a high inital cost, but if you are planning to play for a while, which I assume you were aware when you started this genre of game, then you have to understand that getting to lv 60 on an artifact is fine, and it doesn't /need/ to be legendary... That is supposed to be a sign of EXTREME dedication, on par with seeing someone have an angel of protection, or R10s.
Also, 1500X the cost for a 100% increase in efficiency is something I would actually beg to say is very worth it in the long run. Also, if you really want RP, 20k, and a bit of dailys and you can get 2 rank 8s from sharandar PER WEEK, and in DR you can get greater marks and peridots. Like I said, Cryptic isn't going to spoon feed you BiS. It's not going to be easy, and it wont be any easier in any other game. Get that into your head, and you'll be a lot more content. Also, tell me any other game that is able to complete beta, release 3 (soon 4) modules in less than 2 years. A game that has a working foundry, with dedicated RP'ers to follow. If you can find something better, noone is begging you to stay. The game was designed to encourage determination, and frankly, running 20toons to rake in hundreds of thousands of AD a day, ISN'T dedication. Play a flash game, or buy some single player game if you want something so easy.
It's just my two cents, and it seems to make sense to me. If it doesn't to you, I implore you to decided if this is really the game for you. I enjoy NW enough that I was spent about 60-70 dollars getting a 110 mount, about 30keys, and a companion, and I bear no regrets. I like the game, and I understand the reasoning for many of the mechanics. I am not a huge fan of RNG (having run VT 136 times as of writing and still not recieved my OH, but I deal with the fact that it's just my bad luck, and I'm willing to work at it. I grew up knowing nothing comes for free, and now I am fortunate enough in my life that I can put time and effort to see results. That being said, this post is long enough. best of luck.
They stopped the exploit that allowed cheaters to pull up the old refinement window and use that to refine using a dev command instead of having to use the new RP system , that's probably where most of the stacks of rank 5's with zero RP left over were coming from , no idea if they did anything to bots too.
I wondered where all of those stacks came from for that. Now that we have the account wide bank slots I just have high ranks in there that I just have my leadership alts refine into. As far as bots the key there is to look at what is filling up the AH. They may have moved to something different or the stacks are just lower ranks.
As far as the refining Yes it is taking an extremely long time while using just the enchants that I get from normal play but I have a greater sense of accomplishment that I did it. I put a lot of hard work into getting it.
Thank you for blatantly ignoring the fact that lesser fey blessing, or normal fey blessing proc and drop quite often if you take the time to farm or grind. It has a high inital cost, but if you are planning to play for a while, which I assume you were aware when you started this genre of game, then you have to understand that getting to lv 60 on an artifact is fine, and it doesn't /need/ to be legendary... That is supposed to be a sign of EXTREME dedication, on par with seeing someone have an angel of protection, or R10s.
Also, 1500X the cost for a 100% increase in efficiency is something I would actually beg to say is very worth it in the long run. Also, if you really want RP, 20k, and a bit of dailys and you can get 2 rank 8s from sharandar PER WEEK, and in DR you can get greater marks and peridots. Like I said, Cryptic isn't going to spoon feed you BiS. It's not going to be easy, and it wont be any easier in any other game. Get that into your head, and you'll be a lot more content. Also, tell me any other game that is able to complete beta, release 3 (soon 4) modules in less than 2 years. A game that has a working foundry, with dedicated RP'ers to follow. If you can find something better, noone is begging you to stay. The game was designed to encourage determination, and frankly, running 20toons to rake in hundreds of thousands of AD a day, ISN'T dedication. Play a flash game, or buy some single player game if you want something so easy.
It's just my two cents, and it seems to make sense to me. If it doesn't to you, I implore you to decided if this is really the game for you. I enjoy NW enough that I was spent about 60-70 dollars getting a 110 mount, about 30keys, and a companion, and I bear no regrets. I like the game, and I understand the reasoning for many of the mechanics. I am not a huge fan of RNG (having run VT 136 times as of writing and still not recieved my OH, but I deal with the fact that it's just my bad luck, and I'm willing to work at it. I grew up knowing nothing comes for free, and now I am fortunate enough in my life that I can put time and effort to see results. That being said, this post is long enough. best of luck.
If you ignore the fact that fey blessing has a small internal cooldown then... nope still wouldn't be worth it. If you need enchants, wasting 300k per fey, 900k for 3 would be much better spent elsewhere. When you do get enough, you've already lost a lot of its efficiency. It also ignores the fact that the old system only cost 80k to make one and the new system was supposed to be BETTER. I'd also be more impressed with the modules if they:
1) Actually gave us something we wanted. Most people detest the forcibly repetitive dailies. HEs were actually something new at least.
2) Didn't realise each one in a really buggy state.
Why would you be fine with never being able to compete against those that pay no matter how long you grind for. Some being from AD sellers since you get a bad rate otherwise. Also the foundry needs some work to actually make it rewarding. They should also probably not have promoted the existing hard to get foundry rewards when not fixing some of the achievements to get them.
Also yes, leadership toons do take dedication, you need to take a lot of time to level them up, and have to stay on top of your crafting. I have also invested a lot of AD into it so it's taken a while for it to actually be beneficial. That's hardly the only thing I've done. I've also done multiple hundreds of CN runs and geared up 6 main characters somewhat. I've put many many hours into this game. More than your average fairly hardcore player has.
The old system I could also buy 4 rank 7s, use them until I had enough to upgrade, do a few clicks and it's done. Now I am forced to farm a crapload of enchants or spending a lot of time buying stuff on the ah 1 by 1. Again the new system was meant to be an improvement, yet for some reason you seem to think we should put up with all of the inconveniences, when little cost saving despite that being one of the reasons for the new system, being more expensive in a lot of cases instead of people like me pointing out there's a problem and it's not working. Why should we have to put up with them giving us an initially somewhat better system only for them to gradually make it so it has little benefit in the best cases, but many times worse in others and forcing us to buy coal wards from the zen store for an absurd rate?
If they're selling wards only in the zen store, and rp from the zen store, then I expect to be able to achieveably grind it out with work. It's not the case.
They stopped the exploit that allowed cheaters to pull up the old refinement window and use that to refine using a dev command instead of having to use the new RP system , that's probably where most of the stacks of rank 5's with zero RP left over were coming from , no idea if they did anything to bots too.
But wait, that can't be true because everyone keeps saying the new refining system is cheaper than the old one so therefore no one would ever use the old system. Right?
But wait, that can't be true because everyone keeps saying the new refining system is cheaper than the old one so therefore no one would ever use the old system. Right?
Doesn't seem that cheap to me lol I'm just thankful I'm not a newer player XD
But wait, that can't be true because everyone keeps saying the new refining system is cheaper than the old one so therefore no one would ever use the old system. Right?
The old system required 4 r4s to make a r5. The new system requires 3 in rp plus your original one and 2 marks for 500ad each. At the time I didn't realise they could do this and didn't actually know why they were so cheap. Now it makes sense.
What I don't get is people defending the new system because, "you should grind it out", completely disregarding that the new system has so many negatives and barely any positives anymore when it was meant to be an improvement.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
The new system is a total failure, just as predicted when it was released.
Let's remember: in the old system, you had to have stacks and stacks of enchants in your bags, taking up a lot of space.
To me that doesn't matter, I hoard all of my enchants anyway. The new system made it worse to me because in addition I now have to carry marks. There's more marks than normal enchants...
The system is fine. It just needs fine tuning to match the progression of the game.
I say they fix two problems in one. Lower the AD you get from Leadership and add in some refinement rewards. Mostly BoP rewards. Some can be BoE. Can't have everyone spamming out sapphires on 20 alts.
Before someone asks what this has to do with AD. The amount of AD going around is far too high. This is mostly from players who have an army of ults praying and running Leadership 24/7. rAD has a limit for a reason.
-Change Leadership to give refinement rewards over AD.
-Change each account to have a max of 100k rAD possessed a day from all characters.
-Change Prayer's to be shared account wide. Each character can pick one reward type a week. Max prayers a day, 5. Again the is to fix the "need" of an army of alts. It's very unfriendly to new players.
-With above change, increase chance of Coal Wards from 7 prayer turn ins.
-Fix the overly priced AD sinks in this game. Starting with mount upgrades. Half the junk in the Wondrous Bazaar is no where near worth the AD for the items. If the amount of AD in the game goes down. Companion upgrades will be just as bad as mount upgrades. Even now their use is minimal and only really an upgrade to GS if you have R8+ enchantments.
-New Zen cosmetics. Weapons, armor, spells. Overall is what Path of Exile does. Imagine a CW casting Singularity. But instead of a black whole, it's a Whirlpool. Or being able to change my HR into a Frost Archer. Not only would it be cool to see, the RP's would eat this up.
-New AD cosmetics, overall the same as above. Some reason all of the cosmetic weapon/armors I've seen so far have been event stuff.
To me this would fix the economy of the game. AD in the game would slowly diminish to more manageable levels. Zen would hold it's value overall with the new cosmetics. But not so much that we'd see a 2mil backlog. Preferably in the 400ad:1zen range. AD would have sinks. Refinement wouldn't be such a chore unless you ignore your professions.
You hoard your enchants now? Why don't you feed them into your artifacts or your armor/weapon enchants?
Partially because when I used to loot nodes or whatever I could just keep them in my bag and it'd add to the stack which meant it had it's own place in my inventory so things don't get disorganised. As for weapon/armour enchants, it's hardly efficient for that unless you use shards or the same kind. All my shards on a mule account's guild bank. I've actually spent quite a lot on inventory space with bags, bank space and guild bank space where i have 6 guild banks with 2 slots and 1 with 1. Admittedly that's a sort of a problem I have . Ashamedly I could've sold my vorpal shards for 40k a while ago each and they're now much cheaper, but oh well, I'm still prepared . I won't use a lot of them though. Although if I ever get a complete abundance of AD which isn't completely out of the realms of possibility I might make greaters of each just coz I can. They'd probably bring other stuff for me to focus my ad on though.
Other notable stuff I store: event stuff, dyes, some gear i don't intend to use (bop).
Anyway the main causes of the new system being inefficient is:
1) unable to refine stacks of items
2) insane rp curve on legendary artifacts
3) lesser/normal regular enchants cost way too much to upgrade
4) rank 4s are the most efficient to use as rp generally. As you go up, it gets worse and worse. Rank 5s were just as good when botters used the old system but made the system less of a hassle. We have no cost efficient high rp items. This is a big problem. A couple of levelling missions have us rank 5s, rank 4s should be the primary drop for high end play still (which has improved for icewind at least but it's not a replacement and things need to keep improving.
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mikezorrMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
Partially because when I used to loot nodes or whatever I could just keep them in my bag and it'd add to the stack which meant it had it's own place in my inventory so things don't get disorganised. As for weapon/armour enchants, it's hardly efficient for that unless you use shards or the same kind. All my shards on a mule account's guild bank. I've actually spent quite a lot on inventory space with bags, bank space and guild bank space where i have 6 guild banks with 2 slots and 1 with 1. Admittedly that's a sort of a problem I have . Ashamedly I could've sold my vorpal shards for 40k a while ago each and they're now much cheaper, but oh well, I'm still prepared . I won't use a lot of them though. Although if I ever get a complete abundance of AD which isn't completely out of the realms of possibility I might make greaters of each just coz I can. They'd probably bring other stuff for me to focus my ad on though.
Other notable stuff I store: event stuff, dyes, some gear i don't intend to use (bop).
Anyway the main causes of the new system being inefficient is:
1) unable to refine stacks of items
2) insane rp curve on legendary artifacts
3) lesser/normal regular enchants cost way too much to upgrade
4) rank 4s are the most efficient to use as rp generally. As you go up, it gets worse and worse. Rank 5s were just as good when botters used the old system but made the system less of a hassle. We have no cost efficient high rp items. This is a big problem. A couple of levelling missions have us rank 5s, rank 4s should be the primary drop for high end play still (which has improved for icewind at least but it's not a replacement and things need to keep improving.
To your artifacts:
Rank 5 enchantment, 3000-3500ad Per = 1080 Refine points
Rank 6 Runestones, 6000-8000ad per = 4320 Refine Points
^^ Rank 6 = Half the price for artifacts.
People are just so lazy to check around what gives more and rank 6s are rarely being bought for RP because people think rank 5s will always be best\cheapest.
This is not a problem with the refinement system. This is a cost you pay for wanting to rush the process.
The refinement system is designed to accommodate feeding stones into your slotted enchants as you pursue normal gameplay while running around killing mobs and looting chests/nodes. Since stacks of 99 r5's don't drop in the open world, the refinement system doesn't accommodate feeding huge stacks into your enchants.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
edited July 2014
If you use stones, which don't get a bonus, for refining artifacts, you're an idiot.
Maybe if you actually thought a bit more about what you're doing it wouldn't be so expensive.
To your artifacts:
Rank 5 enchantment, 3000-3500ad Per = 1080 Refine points
Rank 6 Runestones, 6000-8000ad per = 4320 Refine Points
^^ Rank 6 = Half the price for artifacts.
People are just so lazy to check around what gives more and rank 6s are rarely being bought for RP because people think rank 5s will always be best\cheapest.
Actually I said it because rank 6s if not acquired by lockboxes require a 25k mark to make, it was an assumption I made ages ago and didn't bother rechecking. It does seem to be somewhat viable with the disappearance of rank 5 exploiters at this time. However if people did start buying them, the price would quickly go up. 2ad/rp is a little on the high side, but if that was the max you could get it at, it'd be manageable. Though you still have the issue of buying separate runestones. It also relies on the fact that the active lockboxes keep having the enchantment boxes. It's a nice tip to keep in mind, but I'm not convinced it'll stay stable, we'll see. I'd still like to see a more reliable supply somehow whether it be by allowing rank5s to be more accessible, increase the amount of peridots you get which is on the low side, increase the chance of getting higher rp items or adding rp items in dd/skirmish chests or for glory.
The system also needs to be tweaked so items like plague fire can be refined easier, and lesser/normal regular enchants like fey blessing should be more cost effective. For some reason some people are ok with the new system being just under 4 times more expensive than the old one when like I keep saying, the new system is meant to be an improvement for us. Once these changes have been made, a stack of wards and rp items can be slotted and coal wards get reduced in price. Maybe then we can actually get some improvement with a new system instead of a system that initially looked fairly good and went downhill.
This is not a problem with the refinement system. This is a cost you pay for wanting to rush the process.
The refinement system is designed to accommodate feeding stones into your slotted enchants as you pursue normal gameplay while running around killing mobs and looting chests/nodes. Since stacks of 99 r5's don't drop in the open world, the refinement system doesn't accommodate feeding huge stacks into your enchants.
That's great but it's still an inconvenience that the old system didn't have. People originally liked it because the cost of perfects went down a lot at first, now those have gone up and stacks have disappeared, we're left with a more expensive less efficient system.
If you use stones, which don't get a bonus, for refining artifacts, you're an idiot.
Maybe if you actually thought a bit more about what you're doing it wouldn't be so expensive.
I didn't use stones, I was showing how much cryptics options were. They should be at least somewhat viable, especially for stuff like plaguefires. People used rank 5s to upgrade their artifacts, now I hardly think people are going to buy 3500 separate transactions on the ah, it's inconvenient. My points was to show how inconvenient the underlying system was and then removing the supply increases costs and that the actually playerbase can't meet the supply that's actually needed. People around my level seem to understand at least some of the flaws of the new system now this option has been taken away. Of course it shouldn't be an option from botters in the first place, but it should be at least as achievable as what the botters provided. We shouldn't be forced to go to botters to convenience as well as value. If you're ok with having your progress hard capped thats fine, but some of us actually like the ability to progress without having a system that irritates the end user.
When making new systems you have 2 aims:
* Cost savings (not always necessary but it was one of their aims)
* A simpler and more efficient interface.
The new system provides the opposite since stacks are gone and coal wards have gone up 5 times the price completely negating the coal ward reduction while at the same time making it harder for anyone who doesn't want perfects. Why are you people defending such a system Although some (not all) of you seem to be unaware of what the old system was like.
I think what the OP is trying to say is that with the current state of market and lack of bots, it is impossible for new players to catch up to older players in most aspects of the game - enchantments, artifacts, refining, etc. Without pouring boatloads of money into the game, or getting a floating disc from a lockbox, there is no possible way for a new player to get an artifact up to epic or legendary level while stacks or r5s are 350k each. Overpriced? Very! Something needs to be done about the current refining system, I completely agree with the OP!
I am not a huge fan of RNG (having run VT 136 times as of writing and still not recieved my OH, but I deal with the fact that it's just my bad luck, and I'm willing to work at it. I grew up knowing nothing comes for free, and now I am fortunate enough in my life that I can put time and effort to see results. That being said, this post is long enough. best of luck.
I got my Fallen Dragon Talisman on my second run of VT, still can't believe my luck XD
You actually needed 85 (1>5>21>85) for a perfect but yeah there's no real benefit, but a huge increase in the cost of lessers>greaters. The lessers could even be got for free.
Crybabyfest here :-/
The new system is so much better and if u dont see this, u lack fundamental understanding of math.
Btw. The time u waste by writing huge texts pages long in this thread u coild have brought an artifact at least to epic lol!
Lets destroy some whine-arguments in this thread:
1. "Newer players have a hard time to catch up with older ones"
- Really? No way…. /irony off. Ofc they cant catch up. Do u expect to play a MMO for a month and be in the same level as someone whi has played and farmed for over a year. Ridiciulous argument.
2. "Old ref system was cheaper and better"
- what?? Sure, if u deactivate brain and throw peridots into artifacts or buying ref stones from wonderous bazaar, yeah. Otherwise, just no. You only need one set of enchantmens for all of ur chars because the unslotting is so cheap now. Furthermore the cost of higher rank enchantments are lower than before. Do the math! Also, u dont need like 10000 fusions to make a r10, only 21 fusion with the possibility of failure. Why do u think people were selling (and still selling) high rank enchantments and make profit? Because many players dont get how cheap it is to make them in comparison to pre-mod2.
3. "Coal wards are so expensive"
- They are more expensive and rarer than before. True. But enchants are still cheaper now than before mod2. If u calculate a coal ward with 500k, then again, u dont use ur brain. Ok here is a little secret and some people will not like it that I reveal it, because me and others have made tens of millions of AD with it: buy keys (ZEN takes a time to get now but thats just a temporary problem and not part of ref system) and open rusted lockboxes (or some other with good ROI). Sell everything u get for AD and use tarm trade bars for coal wards. You get an average of 8-9 bars out of a box, means u open 21 boxes and get a coal ward. And pls dont tell me u cant afford 21 keys because we are talking about EPIC weapon enchants. If u dont beat cn or farm alot otherwise, no, ur not supposed to get more than a lesser enchant. Period.
4. "everybody needs r10 and legendaries and perfects"
- seems like many think that way who post in this thread. But no, for normal content u need max r7 and a lesser soulforge. Heck, my guild can run any T2 dungeon in greens and r5s.
Lets summarize this: u want perfects and legendaries? Then ur gameplay should be close to perfection and ur dedication close to legendary. If ur casual f2p player, its fine! But u will never get r10s and legendaries. WAI!
Comments
If you don't believe me use the command, "/who old sharandar ruins", in game. Practically every one of those TRs is a bot, and there's generally more than the 100 character limit at work botting that instance 24 hours a day. There's no shortage of bots, they're just holding back most of the enchantments for when warlocks are added, the cost of refining points will explode.
Okay, Panic.
Holding back for a whole month in advance seems excessive, especially if you can't be sure if you're going to keep your account. They have been temp banning ad buyers, so I assumed they'd probably do the same for sellers and also botters with the lack of stacks of peridots/rank 4s etc.
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Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
...
1,152.35 rank 4s (-crit chance) to get to epic. That's achievable in time.
14,250.5 rank 4s for legendary. That's 2850 times of dragging enchantments into slots. Not really achievable from farming and it's a hassle even if it was.
Now do this for all 3 of your artifacts. I hope you don't ever want any of the newer artifacts that ever come out.
Buy stacks of 99 skill kits, grab 2-3 normal fey blessing enchants (the same you could have spent on a stack or two of rank 5s) and run IWD. Basically, get your grind on. This is an MMORPG, not a flash game designed to be beat in 2-3 days. People play MMORPGs for years and don't achieve BiS status. It's not supposed to be easy. ^^
Unless you meant lesser feys, then you could get 2-3 stacks for the cost of 1 normal fey blessing. It'd need to proc 800-1200 extra times for it to just break even per fey blessing. Like I said 15x cost over lesser fey, 100% boost. Not worth it.
If we ignored the fact that kits gave you rank 3s, and you always got a rank 4 and you did on average 25 a day which is a reasonably high amount as being pretty generous with the drop rates, it'd still take you 570 days to get just 1 artifact to legendary. In 570 days, I think a lot of people will move onto something else where the makers aren't greedy and can actually plan well.
Of course people like you like to accuse people who criticise a clearly poor system of crying and take it or even support such companies and encouraging companies to further focus more on profit margins than making a quality product since people just accept it anyway.
I'm not some newbies crying coz I can't put in the effort. I'm a long time player that has put many hours into the game each day and can actually be objective.
Thank you for blatantly ignoring the fact that lesser fey blessing, or normal fey blessing proc and drop quite often if you take the time to farm or grind. It has a high inital cost, but if you are planning to play for a while, which I assume you were aware when you started this genre of game, then you have to understand that getting to lv 60 on an artifact is fine, and it doesn't /need/ to be legendary... That is supposed to be a sign of EXTREME dedication, on par with seeing someone have an angel of protection, or R10s.
Also, 1500X the cost for a 100% increase in efficiency is something I would actually beg to say is very worth it in the long run. Also, if you really want RP, 20k, and a bit of dailys and you can get 2 rank 8s from sharandar PER WEEK, and in DR you can get greater marks and peridots. Like I said, Cryptic isn't going to spoon feed you BiS. It's not going to be easy, and it wont be any easier in any other game. Get that into your head, and you'll be a lot more content. Also, tell me any other game that is able to complete beta, release 3 (soon 4) modules in less than 2 years. A game that has a working foundry, with dedicated RP'ers to follow. If you can find something better, noone is begging you to stay. The game was designed to encourage determination, and frankly, running 20toons to rake in hundreds of thousands of AD a day, ISN'T dedication. Play a flash game, or buy some single player game if you want something so easy.
It's just my two cents, and it seems to make sense to me. If it doesn't to you, I implore you to decided if this is really the game for you. I enjoy NW enough that I was spent about 60-70 dollars getting a 110 mount, about 30keys, and a companion, and I bear no regrets. I like the game, and I understand the reasoning for many of the mechanics. I am not a huge fan of RNG (having run VT 136 times as of writing and still not recieved my OH, but I deal with the fact that it's just my bad luck, and I'm willing to work at it. I grew up knowing nothing comes for free, and now I am fortunate enough in my life that I can put time and effort to see results. That being said, this post is long enough. best of luck.
I wondered where all of those stacks came from for that. Now that we have the account wide bank slots I just have high ranks in there that I just have my leadership alts refine into. As far as bots the key there is to look at what is filling up the AH. They may have moved to something different or the stacks are just lower ranks.
As far as the refining Yes it is taking an extremely long time while using just the enchants that I get from normal play but I have a greater sense of accomplishment that I did it. I put a lot of hard work into getting it.
If you ignore the fact that fey blessing has a small internal cooldown then... nope still wouldn't be worth it. If you need enchants, wasting 300k per fey, 900k for 3 would be much better spent elsewhere. When you do get enough, you've already lost a lot of its efficiency. It also ignores the fact that the old system only cost 80k to make one and the new system was supposed to be BETTER. I'd also be more impressed with the modules if they:
1) Actually gave us something we wanted. Most people detest the forcibly repetitive dailies. HEs were actually something new at least.
2) Didn't realise each one in a really buggy state.
Why would you be fine with never being able to compete against those that pay no matter how long you grind for. Some being from AD sellers since you get a bad rate otherwise. Also the foundry needs some work to actually make it rewarding. They should also probably not have promoted the existing hard to get foundry rewards when not fixing some of the achievements to get them.
Also yes, leadership toons do take dedication, you need to take a lot of time to level them up, and have to stay on top of your crafting. I have also invested a lot of AD into it so it's taken a while for it to actually be beneficial. That's hardly the only thing I've done. I've also done multiple hundreds of CN runs and geared up 6 main characters somewhat. I've put many many hours into this game. More than your average fairly hardcore player has.
The old system I could also buy 4 rank 7s, use them until I had enough to upgrade, do a few clicks and it's done. Now I am forced to farm a crapload of enchants or spending a lot of time buying stuff on the ah 1 by 1. Again the new system was meant to be an improvement, yet for some reason you seem to think we should put up with all of the inconveniences, when little cost saving despite that being one of the reasons for the new system, being more expensive in a lot of cases instead of people like me pointing out there's a problem and it's not working. Why should we have to put up with them giving us an initially somewhat better system only for them to gradually make it so it has little benefit in the best cases, but many times worse in others and forcing us to buy coal wards from the zen store for an absurd rate?
If they're selling wards only in the zen store, and rp from the zen store, then I expect to be able to achieveably grind it out with work. It's not the case.
But wait, that can't be true because everyone keeps saying the new refining system is cheaper than the old one so therefore no one would ever use the old system. Right?
Doesn't seem that cheap to me lol I'm just thankful I'm not a newer player XD
The old system required 4 r4s to make a r5. The new system requires 3 in rp plus your original one and 2 marks for 500ad each. At the time I didn't realise they could do this and didn't actually know why they were so cheap. Now it makes sense.
What I don't get is people defending the new system because, "you should grind it out", completely disregarding that the new system has so many negatives and barely any positives anymore when it was meant to be an improvement.
To me that doesn't matter, I hoard all of my enchants anyway. The new system made it worse to me because in addition I now have to carry marks. There's more marks than normal enchants...
I say they fix two problems in one. Lower the AD you get from Leadership and add in some refinement rewards. Mostly BoP rewards. Some can be BoE. Can't have everyone spamming out sapphires on 20 alts.
Before someone asks what this has to do with AD. The amount of AD going around is far too high. This is mostly from players who have an army of ults praying and running Leadership 24/7. rAD has a limit for a reason.
-Change Leadership to give refinement rewards over AD.
-Change each account to have a max of 100k rAD possessed a day from all characters.
-Change Prayer's to be shared account wide. Each character can pick one reward type a week. Max prayers a day, 5. Again the is to fix the "need" of an army of alts. It's very unfriendly to new players.
-With above change, increase chance of Coal Wards from 7 prayer turn ins.
-Fix the overly priced AD sinks in this game. Starting with mount upgrades. Half the junk in the Wondrous Bazaar is no where near worth the AD for the items. If the amount of AD in the game goes down. Companion upgrades will be just as bad as mount upgrades. Even now their use is minimal and only really an upgrade to GS if you have R8+ enchantments.
-New Zen cosmetics. Weapons, armor, spells. Overall is what Path of Exile does. Imagine a CW casting Singularity. But instead of a black whole, it's a Whirlpool. Or being able to change my HR into a Frost Archer. Not only would it be cool to see, the RP's would eat this up.
-New AD cosmetics, overall the same as above. Some reason all of the cosmetic weapon/armors I've seen so far have been event stuff.
To me this would fix the economy of the game. AD in the game would slowly diminish to more manageable levels. Zen would hold it's value overall with the new cosmetics. But not so much that we'd see a 2mil backlog. Preferably in the 400ad:1zen range. AD would have sinks. Refinement wouldn't be such a chore unless you ignore your professions.
Partially because when I used to loot nodes or whatever I could just keep them in my bag and it'd add to the stack which meant it had it's own place in my inventory so things don't get disorganised. As for weapon/armour enchants, it's hardly efficient for that unless you use shards or the same kind. All my shards on a mule account's guild bank. I've actually spent quite a lot on inventory space with bags, bank space and guild bank space where i have 6 guild banks with 2 slots and 1 with 1. Admittedly that's a sort of a problem I have
Other notable stuff I store: event stuff, dyes, some gear i don't intend to use (bop).
Anyway the main causes of the new system being inefficient is:
1) unable to refine stacks of items
2) insane rp curve on legendary artifacts
3) lesser/normal regular enchants cost way too much to upgrade
4) rank 4s are the most efficient to use as rp generally. As you go up, it gets worse and worse. Rank 5s were just as good when botters used the old system but made the system less of a hassle. We have no cost efficient high rp items. This is a big problem. A couple of levelling missions have us rank 5s, rank 4s should be the primary drop for high end play still (which has improved for icewind at least but it's not a replacement and things need to keep improving.
To your artifacts:
Rank 5 enchantment, 3000-3500ad Per = 1080 Refine points
Rank 6 Runestones, 6000-8000ad per = 4320 Refine Points
^^ Rank 6 = Half the price for artifacts.
People are just so lazy to check around what gives more and rank 6s are rarely being bought for RP because people think rank 5s will always be best\cheapest.
and with the new one you end up with single enchants that can't stack because they all have different refined points.
This is not a problem with the refinement system. This is a cost you pay for wanting to rush the process.
The refinement system is designed to accommodate feeding stones into your slotted enchants as you pursue normal gameplay while running around killing mobs and looting chests/nodes. Since stacks of 99 r5's don't drop in the open world, the refinement system doesn't accommodate feeding huge stacks into your enchants.
Maybe if you actually thought a bit more about what you're doing it wouldn't be so expensive.
When I refer to "stones" I am referring more generally to enchantments/runestones/shards.
Actually I said it because rank 6s if not acquired by lockboxes require a 25k mark to make, it was an assumption I made ages ago and didn't bother rechecking. It does seem to be somewhat viable with the disappearance of rank 5 exploiters at this time. However if people did start buying them, the price would quickly go up. 2ad/rp is a little on the high side, but if that was the max you could get it at, it'd be manageable. Though you still have the issue of buying separate runestones. It also relies on the fact that the active lockboxes keep having the enchantment boxes. It's a nice tip to keep in mind, but I'm not convinced it'll stay stable, we'll see. I'd still like to see a more reliable supply somehow whether it be by allowing rank5s to be more accessible, increase the amount of peridots you get which is on the low side, increase the chance of getting higher rp items or adding rp items in dd/skirmish chests or for glory.
The system also needs to be tweaked so items like plague fire can be refined easier, and lesser/normal regular enchants like fey blessing should be more cost effective. For some reason some people are ok with the new system being just under 4 times more expensive than the old one when like I keep saying, the new system is meant to be an improvement for us. Once these changes have been made, a stack of wards and rp items can be slotted and coal wards get reduced in price. Maybe then we can actually get some improvement with a new system instead of a system that initially looked fairly good and went downhill.
That's great but it's still an inconvenience that the old system didn't have. People originally liked it because the cost of perfects went down a lot at first, now those have gone up and stacks have disappeared, we're left with a more expensive less efficient system.
I didn't use stones, I was showing how much cryptics options were. They should be at least somewhat viable, especially for stuff like plaguefires. People used rank 5s to upgrade their artifacts, now I hardly think people are going to buy 3500 separate transactions on the ah, it's inconvenient. My points was to show how inconvenient the underlying system was and then removing the supply increases costs and that the actually playerbase can't meet the supply that's actually needed. People around my level seem to understand at least some of the flaws of the new system now this option has been taken away. Of course it shouldn't be an option from botters in the first place, but it should be at least as achievable as what the botters provided. We shouldn't be forced to go to botters to convenience as well as value. If you're ok with having your progress hard capped thats fine, but some of us actually like the ability to progress without having a system that irritates the end user.
When making new systems you have 2 aims:
* Cost savings (not always necessary but it was one of their aims)
* A simpler and more efficient interface.
The new system provides the opposite since stacks are gone and coal wards have gone up 5 times the price completely negating the coal ward reduction while at the same time making it harder for anyone who doesn't want perfects. Why are you people defending such a system Although some (not all) of you seem to be unaware of what the old system was like.
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|| Axios Guild Leader || Neverwinter Trade Forum Moderator || Infernal Paragons ||
Check out my foundry, titled "Akro's Gone Wacko", featuring our ex-CM Akromatik!: NW-DL8J7BY5T
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Thaumaturge's Time To Shine: A Complete Guide
I'd say there are some significant savings....
15 * 500k > 64 * 100k
You actually needed 85 (1>5>21>85) for a perfect but yeah there's no real benefit, but a huge increase in the cost of lessers>greaters. The lessers could even be got for free.
The new system is so much better and if u dont see this, u lack fundamental understanding of math.
Btw. The time u waste by writing huge texts pages long in this thread u coild have brought an artifact at least to epic lol!
Lets destroy some whine-arguments in this thread:
1. "Newer players have a hard time to catch up with older ones"
- Really? No way…. /irony off. Ofc they cant catch up. Do u expect to play a MMO for a month and be in the same level as someone whi has played and farmed for over a year. Ridiciulous argument.
2. "Old ref system was cheaper and better"
- what?? Sure, if u deactivate brain and throw peridots into artifacts or buying ref stones from wonderous bazaar, yeah. Otherwise, just no. You only need one set of enchantmens for all of ur chars because the unslotting is so cheap now. Furthermore the cost of higher rank enchantments are lower than before. Do the math! Also, u dont need like 10000 fusions to make a r10, only 21 fusion with the possibility of failure. Why do u think people were selling (and still selling) high rank enchantments and make profit? Because many players dont get how cheap it is to make them in comparison to pre-mod2.
3. "Coal wards are so expensive"
- They are more expensive and rarer than before. True. But enchants are still cheaper now than before mod2. If u calculate a coal ward with 500k, then again, u dont use ur brain. Ok here is a little secret and some people will not like it that I reveal it, because me and others have made tens of millions of AD with it: buy keys (ZEN takes a time to get now but thats just a temporary problem and not part of ref system) and open rusted lockboxes (or some other with good ROI). Sell everything u get for AD and use tarm trade bars for coal wards. You get an average of 8-9 bars out of a box, means u open 21 boxes and get a coal ward. And pls dont tell me u cant afford 21 keys because we are talking about EPIC weapon enchants. If u dont beat cn or farm alot otherwise, no, ur not supposed to get more than a lesser enchant. Period.
4. "everybody needs r10 and legendaries and perfects"
- seems like many think that way who post in this thread. But no, for normal content u need max r7 and a lesser soulforge. Heck, my guild can run any T2 dungeon in greens and r5s.
Lets summarize this: u want perfects and legendaries? Then ur gameplay should be close to perfection and ur dedication close to legendary. If ur casual f2p player, its fine! But u will never get r10s and legendaries. WAI!