I never expect any dev of any game to be part of the top-100 players in the game.
A player who plays for hours each day for the better part of the week will have more experience than a dev who has to do a lot of coding.
What I am concerned about is that after watching every single live stream, the devs seemed to belong to the lower pvp bracket.
I somewhat disagree with the statement that the devs must listen to certain players because as we have seen on this forum and in-game, there are a lot of disagreements between players on a lot of aspects. Sure, everyone agrees that GWF's roar is currently broken, but when you start to talk about buffing CWs and nerfing TRs, you'll see a lot of disagreements.
I think a few of the devs needs to start working on their PVP games. Queue against premades with their own premades. Queue solo. I'm not expecting for any of them to be on the top 20 pages, but at least show some competence. Devs need to see these issues firsthand and understand the underlying concepts of high end PVP.
Most people who comment here are player that doesn't play at the top level PVP scene so no they don't know what is the real problem.
Like roar, we hear people crying about it every sec. But it is not the real problem here, I can play my GWF without roar and still destroy anything 1 v 1 aside from top HR/GWF. Roar is just a tool to make GWF dummy proof and really forgiving for the non-skilled GWF to be strong. Simply crying to beg for roar nerf would not help bring the balance in line. Imagine if they delete ROAR from game right now, there is not gonna be any significant change to the PVP balance. Many TRs complain about roar but no offense when I fight TR I don't even rely on roar I simply can track them down in stealth and land take down in their face cause I know how to fight a TR. For me fighting TR without roar only allow them to be alive longer, they would die eventually given enough time as far as 1 v 1 goes. There are god tier TR that would have a chance of winning but we have less than 5 TRs on the server that are capable of doing such task.
So many complain about nerfing GWF when they don't even know how to fight one properly. How is that gonna help? All their comments are just grief after they get facerolled by some GWF in PVP.
0
degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The leaderboard is full of HRs.....yet HRs are getting buffed overall in module 4. Sounds about right.
Also, one of the HRs on the leaderboards has 204 wins and only 1 loss but I'm sure cryptic wants to preserve the integrity of their game and has looked into it right :rolleyes:
Sadly the Devs, when measuring who to nerf and buff, only look at PVE. It seem quite strange that the class who needed the most love for PVP (CWs) got nerfed, and the class that needed the least (HRs), got buffed. A TR buff would be most welcome, too, something besides perma stealth to hold a node. And, as everyone has already mentioned, GWFs are getting insane nerfs making them quite under-powered in PVP.
What I'm excepting to happen is that they'll be so much qq on the forums about HRs in PVP that the Devs will have to act, and the entire cycle will start all over again.
What I'm excepting to happen is that they'll be so much qq on the forums about HRs in PVP that the Devs will have to act, and the entire cycle will start all over again.
yes guess it will happen, if people stay to play this game.
Sadly the Devs, when measuring who to nerf and buff, only look at PVE. It seem quite strange that the class who needed the most love for PVP (CWs) got nerfed, and the class that needed the least (HRs), got buffed. A TR buff would be most welcome, too, something besides perma stealth to hold a node. And, as everyone has already mentioned, GWFs are getting insane nerfs making them quite under-powered in PVP.
What I'm excepting to happen is that they'll be so much qq on the forums about HRs in PVP that the Devs will have to act, and the entire cycle will start all over again.
GWFs would most likely go sentinel-swordmaster for PvP and SM-Destro for PvE. IV will be dead, they could as well remove it for GWF and give a proper alternative paragon. Don't know if stuns prevent players from using powers such as Unstoppable, ITC, block and other immunities to avoid the following IBS. IBS was the main source of damage and heavily relies on a prone to stop the target. Else, it will never connect. Prone removal from takedown was not really needed in my opinion. Also, if i got it well, Roar now just interrupts powers, no more rooting, so the enemy is free to move and use powers.
Would be nice if the devs could put some PvP practice mode on the preview shard, since it's impossible to test PvP changes there. Nobody to play against. Like NPCs/ bots in domination to at least take a look at how the changes work...
0
psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
11 HR 5 TR 4 GWF a way is see the main problem ist the GWF no matter what ppl say .
I dont see TR as a prloblem in long term this first page will be pure green.
If you don't stop at that, you will see that little more than 33% of the first 20 pages are gwf (at least, some days ago).
So, YES, gwf are one of the main problems. And as such, they should be "fixed".
Of curse togheter with tr and hr for pvp and cw for pve.
These class cannot stay the way they are now.
If all us GF's stayed as the worst class in the game, surely all you OP classes can stand to be a little less op? Geeesh!
Well, I find playing GF pretty satisfying honestly. I like sounds, animations, look of the gear etc. Sometimes I get into lopsided arenas matched in my favor and score 20/0. GF is weak, yes, but I kinda have fun paying as a GF unless, let's say, DC, which feels very boring and underpowered.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited June 2014
Ive never played a MMO where classes were balanced...
however having such a small amount of people really highlights it and there isnt enough synergy for utility classes to overcome the pure dps onslought.
If you want to balance dom matches ..
1. Gear score ranges have to apply with locked Armour upon entry(under 10 bracket, up to 15k gear bracket and 15k+) (allow artifact switching if already slotted in active slots)
2. Class composition for pug matches, stacking 3 gwfs 2 trs right now is a pretty good way to win, or 2 gwfs, 2 hrs and a tr or thrown in a dc to heal the multiple gwfs, going up against a rainbow party with 2 cws and a gf .. you want balance then balance the teams.
3. premades not adhering to the class composition entry , will only get other premades that fail to come up with group composition , your penalty for doing so will be longer waits.
This will effect the following:
1. Gear score is the biggest balance issue, not classes, a 18k monster will wipe the floor with a under 10 k new player. Pretty simple. Adjust ranges and you will find more balance.
2. Class composition, by sticking a rainbow part in everytime, this will achieve greater balance for pvp matches, no more multiple prones/stuns/locks of specific skills, no more 2 tr permas taking 1 and 3 and locking it down ect..
3. Top end premades that stack op classes will face each other more regularly, which is what they wanted, of course they can rainbow and still dominate, but it wont be as much of a disparity as before.
Instead nerfing the erf out of classes, this is what they should have attempted before hand. all the above wouldve brought more balance then what they are doing.
People will just roll whatever is the most op class atm and go with it, 2-3 hrs, 2-3 trs and maybe 1 cw ftw in mod 4.
Ill live and adjust accordingly until I get tired of rolling a new class every 3 months just to compete.
Well that view you have shown is pointless. You are taking leaderboard as a reliable source of which class is better. Why you do not take in consideration that DC can't be high in ranking cause they aren't killers? Why won't you understand that CW can't be too strong in pvp cause if they were, there would be no reason to make any other class in entire game than cw cause they are sick op in pve? I have one cw of my own and the damage and control i have on it is just insance. If you are skilled u can literally solo bosses you don't need tank, nor healer just cw, life steal dodges and insane op dmg. If they balance cw on pve and make each class same strong as cw on pve we can talk about making cw closer in power to other classes on pvp. Oh and very important factor which you avoid or pretend you do not know is that TR's who are in ranking are old players, but when it comes to gwf and hr they are new(and old). That is because playing TR is insane hard comparing to op gwf and hr.TR is that much nerfed. So my suggestion would be to nerf gwf and hr so they would be on lvl of tr. DC well built can heal well and tank. CW is too op on pve so they have no right to be on same lvl as other classes which are weak on pve:tr(on pve nearly destroyed by cryptic), hr and gwf as well(no control). Well i barely can see gf's on pvp nor i have one so i can't say anything about them.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
I'm sure everyone is posting in this thread cause they like this game and want it to be a success. BALANCE - IS A MYTH..... when it comes to PvP in this game there will never be balance. As long as they give players the ability to stat stack like they have, there will always be issues like this when it comes to PvP. The queue matchmaking system is a joke and doesn't work as we have all seen. The leaderboards just reflect the current FOTM, which will most likely shift to another class after the next balance tweaks(LMAO that's a joke too)
Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy PvP, but the lvl 60 PvP in this game is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> unless you want to spend hundreds of dollars to buy all the gear and enchantments for the current FOTM class. Do you remember how much fun PvP was when you were leveling up your toon. You didn't see the kind of glaring imbalances you see at the current lvl 60 PvP. It happens in every PvP game where the developers don't give any forethought into the actual PvP gameplay. They cater to the PvE crowd and just think of PvP as an afterthought.
The only way your gonna get real true PvP balance is to limit the absurdity of stat stacking at the current levels that exist. Sure everyone is calling out HR as OP right now, and I'm sure there is good reason for it. But this can be done on any class, some more effective than others. I laugh when I inspect random players at times, and see someone rocking over 9,000 power. A stat that has no diminishing returns. This should never have been made possible, but the only one to blame for it are the developers for not having the forethought that players WILL always try to maximize their characters.
I am sure there are gonna be some trolls that wanna defend this and just say you just suck, and LTP. That is their right, but denial is not just a river in Egypt. If you don't believe me that it's just lvl 60 PvP that sucks, roll another toon and play in the lvl 20 - 30 bracket, and you will see that PvP is actually fun there, why, because you don't have toons running around with ridiculous stats stacked to godly amounts. At this point I could care less, cause this is just another run of the mill game that has been ruined by the developers brainfarts.
Comments
Most people who comment here are player that doesn't play at the top level PVP scene so no they don't know what is the real problem.
Like roar, we hear people crying about it every sec. But it is not the real problem here, I can play my GWF without roar and still destroy anything 1 v 1 aside from top HR/GWF. Roar is just a tool to make GWF dummy proof and really forgiving for the non-skilled GWF to be strong. Simply crying to beg for roar nerf would not help bring the balance in line. Imagine if they delete ROAR from game right now, there is not gonna be any significant change to the PVP balance. Many TRs complain about roar but no offense when I fight TR I don't even rely on roar I simply can track them down in stealth and land take down in their face cause I know how to fight a TR. For me fighting TR without roar only allow them to be alive longer, they would die eventually given enough time as far as 1 v 1 goes. There are god tier TR that would have a chance of winning but we have less than 5 TRs on the server that are capable of doing such task.
So many complain about nerfing GWF when they don't even know how to fight one properly. How is that gonna help? All their comments are just grief after they get facerolled by some GWF in PVP.
Sadly the Devs, when measuring who to nerf and buff, only look at PVE. It seem quite strange that the class who needed the most love for PVP (CWs) got nerfed, and the class that needed the least (HRs), got buffed. A TR buff would be most welcome, too, something besides perma stealth to hold a node. And, as everyone has already mentioned, GWFs are getting insane nerfs making them quite under-powered in PVP.
What I'm excepting to happen is that they'll be so much qq on the forums about HRs in PVP that the Devs will have to act, and the entire cycle will start all over again.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
[Combat (Self)] <insert perma name here> deals 4553 (5979) Physical to you with Gloaming Cut.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! <insert perma name here> deals 1114 (1759) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] <insert perma name here> deals 504 (763) Arcane to you with Elven Ferocity.
[Combat (Self)] <insert perma name here> deals 559 (768) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] <insert perma name here> deals 816 (1123) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] <insert perma name here> deals 738 (1015) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] <insert perma name here> deals 856 (1178) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! <insert perma name here> deals 1806 (2852) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] <insert perma name here> deals 973 (1338) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] <insert perma name here> deals 1543 (2122) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] <insert perma name here> deals 721 (992) Physical to you with Shadow Strike.
[Combat (Self)] <insert perma name here> deals 7548 Physical to you with Shocking Execution.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! <insert perma name here> deals 1089 (1719) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! <insert perma name here> deals 1520 (2399) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! <insert perma name here> deals 8203 (12951) Physical to you with Gloaming Cut.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Ray of Frost deals 195 (1297) Cold to <insert perma name here>.
[Combat (Self)] Your Conduit of Ice deals 103 (975) Cold to <insert perma name here>.
[Combat (Self)] Your Conduit of Ice deals 107 (1018) Cold to <insert perma name here>.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! <insert perma name here> deals 1679 (2651) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! <insert perma name here> deals 4777 (7542) Physical to you with Gloaming Cut.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! <insert perma name here> deals 4242 (6697) Physical to you with Gloaming Cut.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Ray of Frost deals 100 (714) Cold to <insert perma name here>.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Ray of Frost deals 146 (947) Cold to <insert perma name here>.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! <insert perma name here> deals 6309 (9961) Physical to you with Gloaming Cut.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! <insert perma name here> deals 5033 (7946) Physical to you with Gloaming Cut.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! <insert perma name here> deals 1584 (2501) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! <insert perma name here> deals 1383 (2183) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! <insert perma name here> deals 960 (3032) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! <insert perma name here> deals 2044 (3227) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] <insert perma name here> deals 1187 (1633) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] <insert perma name here> deals 1242 (1708) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! <insert perma name here> deals 6281 (9917) Physical to you with Gloaming Cut.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! <insert perma name here> deals 1408 (2224) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] <insert perma name here> deals 663 (1003) Arcane to you with Elven Ferocity.
[Combat (Self)] <insert perma name here> deals 805 (1108) Physical to you with Cloud of Steel.
[Combat (Self)] <insert perma name here> deals 3158 (4345) Physical to you with Gloaming Cut.
[Combat (Self)] Your Frost Weapon gives 0 (39) Cold to <insert perma name here>.
[Combat (Self)] Your Ray of Frost gives 0 (601) Cold to <insert perma name here>.
[Combat (Self)] Your Frost Weapon gives 0 (35) Cold to <insert perma name here>.
[Combat (Self)] Your Icy Terrain gives 0 Root to <insert perma name here>.
[Combat (Self)] Your Chill gives 0 Run Speed to <insert perma name here>.
[Combat (Self)] <insert perma name here> deals 2843 (3912) Physical to you with Gloaming Cut.
[Combat (Self)] Your Icy Terrain gives 0 (769) Cold to <insert perma name here>.
[Combat (Self)] Your Sigil of the Controller gives 0 (1310) Arcane to <insert perma name here>.
[Combat (Self)] Your Severe Reaction gives 0 Repel to <insert perma name here>.
[Combat (Self)] Your Sigil of the Controller gives 0 Hold to <insert perma name here>.
GWFs would most likely go sentinel-swordmaster for PvP and SM-Destro for PvE. IV will be dead, they could as well remove it for GWF and give a proper alternative paragon. Don't know if stuns prevent players from using powers such as Unstoppable, ITC, block and other immunities to avoid the following IBS. IBS was the main source of damage and heavily relies on a prone to stop the target. Else, it will never connect. Prone removal from takedown was not really needed in my opinion. Also, if i got it well, Roar now just interrupts powers, no more rooting, so the enemy is free to move and use powers.
Would be nice if the devs could put some PvP practice mode on the preview shard, since it's impossible to test PvP changes there. Nobody to play against. Like NPCs/ bots in domination to at least take a look at how the changes work...
If you don't stop at that, you will see that little more than 33% of the first 20 pages are gwf (at least, some days ago).
So, YES, gwf are one of the main problems. And as such, they should be "fixed".
Of curse togheter with tr and hr for pvp and cw for pve.
These class cannot stay the way they are now.
If all us GF's stayed as the worst class in the game, surely all you OP classes can stand to be a little less op? Geeesh!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Well, I find playing GF pretty satisfying honestly. I like sounds, animations, look of the gear etc. Sometimes I get into lopsided arenas matched in my favor and score 20/0. GF is weak, yes, but I kinda have fun paying as a GF unless, let's say, DC, which feels very boring and underpowered.
however having such a small amount of people really highlights it and there isnt enough synergy for utility classes to overcome the pure dps onslought.
If you want to balance dom matches ..
1. Gear score ranges have to apply with locked Armour upon entry(under 10 bracket, up to 15k gear bracket and 15k+) (allow artifact switching if already slotted in active slots)
2. Class composition for pug matches, stacking 3 gwfs 2 trs right now is a pretty good way to win, or 2 gwfs, 2 hrs and a tr or thrown in a dc to heal the multiple gwfs, going up against a rainbow party with 2 cws and a gf .. you want balance then balance the teams.
3. premades not adhering to the class composition entry , will only get other premades that fail to come up with group composition , your penalty for doing so will be longer waits.
This will effect the following:
1. Gear score is the biggest balance issue, not classes, a 18k monster will wipe the floor with a under 10 k new player. Pretty simple. Adjust ranges and you will find more balance.
2. Class composition, by sticking a rainbow part in everytime, this will achieve greater balance for pvp matches, no more multiple prones/stuns/locks of specific skills, no more 2 tr permas taking 1 and 3 and locking it down ect..
3. Top end premades that stack op classes will face each other more regularly, which is what they wanted, of course they can rainbow and still dominate, but it wont be as much of a disparity as before.
Instead nerfing the erf out of classes, this is what they should have attempted before hand. all the above wouldve brought more balance then what they are doing.
People will just roll whatever is the most op class atm and go with it, 2-3 hrs, 2-3 trs and maybe 1 cw ftw in mod 4.
Ill live and adjust accordingly until I get tired of rolling a new class every 3 months just to compete.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy PvP, but the lvl 60 PvP in this game is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> unless you want to spend hundreds of dollars to buy all the gear and enchantments for the current FOTM class. Do you remember how much fun PvP was when you were leveling up your toon. You didn't see the kind of glaring imbalances you see at the current lvl 60 PvP. It happens in every PvP game where the developers don't give any forethought into the actual PvP gameplay. They cater to the PvE crowd and just think of PvP as an afterthought.
The only way your gonna get real true PvP balance is to limit the absurdity of stat stacking at the current levels that exist. Sure everyone is calling out HR as OP right now, and I'm sure there is good reason for it. But this can be done on any class, some more effective than others. I laugh when I inspect random players at times, and see someone rocking over 9,000 power. A stat that has no diminishing returns. This should never have been made possible, but the only one to blame for it are the developers for not having the forethought that players WILL always try to maximize their characters.
I am sure there are gonna be some trolls that wanna defend this and just say you just suck, and LTP. That is their right, but denial is not just a river in Egypt. If you don't believe me that it's just lvl 60 PvP that sucks, roll another toon and play in the lvl 20 - 30 bracket, and you will see that PvP is actually fun there, why, because you don't have toons running around with ridiculous stats stacked to godly amounts. At this point I could care less, cause this is just another run of the mill game that has been ruined by the developers brainfarts.