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Gwf sentinel / feats need reworked
lucidproph3cy
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
So I have been talking to a lot of my friend's about pvp. It's like the white elephant everyone knows the the GWF is OP at this moment. I feel in pvp every class should have a chance to kill every other class in a 1 v 1 so it comes down to skill. I feel the GWF probability of killing any class in a 1 v 1 is high. The fact that it takes two great players to take down a great gwf just seems extremely unbalanced to me. It is also weird because most hybrids classed have less tanking abilities than the tank / squishier but has a more damage output in every other mmo so why not this one?
It seems to me that the GWF can tank better than the tank. They can get deflect of 50% and defense just as high or close enough to a GF and can have insane regen plus self heals. Not to mention the amount of life a GWF can achieve with feats that increase the effectiveness of con. I just feel the sentinel tree needs reworked or maybe pass some of the feats to the GF. I feel destroyer GWF are in the right place around 35% defense and up to 30% deflect which is in between the squishys and tanks. When I read the gwf feats I can't help but think wow those should be the gf feats and when I read gf feats like conqueror I think that should be gwf feats. Not to mention I feel unstoppable is a better shield and the gf blocking.
I know the dev's will balance it eventually because they have dedicated their time to it the past. I just want to hear what everyone else thinks?
It seems to me that the GWF can tank better than the tank. They can get deflect of 50% and defense just as high or close enough to a GF and can have insane regen plus self heals. Not to mention the amount of life a GWF can achieve with feats that increase the effectiveness of con. I just feel the sentinel tree needs reworked or maybe pass some of the feats to the GF. I feel destroyer GWF are in the right place around 35% defense and up to 30% deflect which is in between the squishys and tanks. When I read the gwf feats I can't help but think wow those should be the gf feats and when I read gf feats like conqueror I think that should be gwf feats. Not to mention I feel unstoppable is a better shield and the gf blocking.
I know the dev's will balance it eventually because they have dedicated their time to it the past. I just want to hear what everyone else thinks?
Post edited by lucidproph3cy on
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The devs absolutely gutted the GWF class before trying to make changes for pvp.. And all it did in the end was make sentinel the only viable build in pvp cause the rest became useless as the changes affected all builds.. Not to mention that a pve GWF also became extinct..
Is the sentinel OP in pvp? Yes it is.. Is a tr OP in pvp? Yes it is too....
It's not just a sentinel...
But any changes need to be pvp only... This is important...
And I see ppl qq about deep gash bleed procs.. Is that OP? Yes it is... But given that in my absolute BiS GWF.. Lower spec CWs can stil top me in dps.. Even though I use deep gash OP.. It highlights 2 things.. If they nerf deep gash without any other buffs... The class will be dead again... And that the whole CW class is broken OP for pve...
1) Short answer yes Sent gwf is hard to kill in pvp and yes with Threatening rush they have a tool that is not suited for them couse that kind of gap closer is stopping other from getting away. Remove that and all is fine nm what you say becouse of several reasons.
2) In pvp there are no balance among 1-1 will never be and it would be extreamly contraproductive to even try it. All having a chanse to kill eachother (same gear equal skill) will lead to extream steamlining among the different classes.
Gf against a cw no chanse what so ever (under above condition), dc vs cw same, dc against tr same, gwf -gf endless battle never ends, gwf -dc never ends etc etc.
3) Now lets compare the notorious gwf class against others in pve which is the MAJOR part of this game. Lets say you want gwf to be as vital for dungeons as cw to make things justice across the board... Now imagen the nerf you have to do to cws to make gwf as desirable as cw in all dungeons. The same for hr, dc, tr, gf ofc. The total domination that cw has against other classes in pve is by far and i mean by far exeeding anything in pvp what so ever.
4) I myself play a gwf 15k gs and i know that we dominate pugs becouse of the mechanics at play. Peeps in pugs just dont cooperate enough to focus a gwf down as needed.
BUT in the major part of the matches i play the most kills comes from cw/tr/hr. The differance is when a cw or tr totally dominate a match its not from hunting you down and you trying to escape its from above afar or just a lighting crashing down on you(tr famous chocking).
Up close in your face and personal while 3 of you are trying to get him down and he still refuse to die and either kill you (if badly geared) or hes team comes and finish you off. It hurts seeing this and it becomes more or less personal and frustrating.
An ubah geared tr will wrack a team at least as good as any gwf (they sure kill faster) but it wont be so much in your face and not so personal.
Before you consider that what 80%+ of this game is pve and want changes for just pvp I suggest you come up with things that actually could change pvp balance like;
Taking gs in consideration (or items)
Restricting enchantments
Special pvp gear etc etc ...
You gear up gwf to 15k+ gs and compare what it takes to make him a beast in pvp(inc gimping pve for it) and compare what it takes to gear up most other classes to become valid in pvp.
Now go lfg for groups with a gwf for a while to get those gear and then take any other class and do the same and see how long it takes you......
But hey lets forget all other aspect of the game lets focus on ""I face an overgeared extreamly skilled gwf 1-1 and i get facerolled everysingle time lets nerf them""- Yea I see you point....
GWf is not OP it's balanced. Sentinel is a PVP build and better at PvP than other builds. Threatening rush is a good gap closer but you sacrifice a lot of things to be able to use it.
I don't ever want to see PvP separated from PvE because it separates things too much. The problem is that many other people get their T2 Gear and spec for as much DPS as they can thinking it's all about power and crit and it's not. Deflect, life steal and regen are there for everyone, if you choose not to use then at all, or make sacrifices in your tree for survival over raw damage then you deserve to have your toon's face caved in in PvP.
I've played against "unkillable" rogues, CWs, Clerics , GFs and whoever that melee HR was the other day that contuously destroyed my GWF **** you!!!
Equally, I have been whispered in game accused of glitch inn, cheating and am called **** etc for beating others.
Lastly for the whiners out there I'll share with you a little secret that the winners all know about but apparently the whining losers don't there is already an abundant PvP stat out there for you to become magnificent and that is AP. You win in PvP by playing as a team. Leave this alone now, and if you want to feel powerful roll a DC in PvP and see who can kill you then.
about gwf being op, i do roflstomp_would_be_an_understatement random ppl in pvp but mostly they are just bad, i can kill decent(or good, dont do Premade v Premade so i dont know how good the best are) ppl too, but it takes a lot of time since our dmg is only melee and not so high, there is no way in hell i could kill a half decent tank cleric 1v1, same with good gf, good tr is pita as well, hunters are just bugged and will probably stay that way forever(based on certain companys track record of fixing cc immunity bugs) and while they arent fixed its just @#%$@% to fight them
This is about it right there. After grinding out a full set of t1 gear pre mod 2 and 3/4 of t2 set and the pvp artifact post mod 2 the key is teamwork. Im only 13.5k GS and I am specked sentinal hybrid for surviveability in PvE. Im not a min/maxer and have a lot of fun figuring out my toons by trial and error. With the, I dont know, 70 to 100k glory earned so far the majority was earned in good groups that worked together, had a plan, pared up with complimenting classes in a buddy system. I am so done with the 1v1 comparison and the OP bla bla bla.
Traxus Atheanes GF
Bastiel Atheanes DC
Ellara Atheanes CW
Keira Atheanes TR
Sarasin Atheanes SW
Jerkface McGee HR
-MANTARA- OP
Notice how all the crying nerf gwf in pvp never talks about gwf in pve or the imbalance with cw groups in pve.......
So now back to the topic of pvp and the sentinel tree.
Makes no sence what so ever...
Either come with suggestions that would effect the hole game when it comes to balance or just fade away among all the other qq arguments with no solution or improvement...
Leaving out the major part to focus on a something clearly minor without any form or objective for an improvment is just qq nothing more nothing less....
And exactly what *crutch* are you refuring to .....
To build a GWF who is tank specced in pvp requires making a LOT of sacrifices for that character in PvE - in fact, doing so pretty much relegates that character to PvP only.
They took a tanky class and specced him as a pure tank, and guess what, it works as a tank. But ONLY in PvP, because GWF doesn't have enough threat gen for this to work in PvE. So you end up with a tanky character that can't hold aggro and does sub-par damage.
Now Cleric, on the other hand, can become the real, unkillable tank character in PvP, and to be viable in PvE all it takes them is to swap gear.
*Edit: oh, and by the way, general QQ "please nerf this class" thread, prepare for the lock.
Here we go again in a merry circle .......
2) In pvp there are no balance among 1-1 will never be and it would be extreamly contraproductive to even try it. All having a chanse to kill eachother (same gear equal skill) will lead to extream steamlining among the different classes.
Gf against a cw no chanse what so ever (under above condition), dc vs cw same, dc against tr same, gwf -gf endless battle never ends, gwf -dc never ends etc etc.
4) I myself play a gwf 15k gs and i know that we dominate pugs becouse of the mechanics at play. Peeps in pugs just dont cooperate enough to focus a gwf down as needed.
BUT in the major part of the matches i play the most kills comes from cw/tr/hr. The differance is when a cw or tr totally dominate a match its not from hunting you down and you trying to escape its from above afar or just a lighting crashing down on you(tr famous chocking).
Up close in your face and personal while 3 of you are trying to get him down and he still refuse to die and either kill you (if badly geared) or hes team comes and finish you off. It hurts seeing this and it becomes more or less personal and frustrating.
An ubah geared tr will wrack a team at least as good as any gwf (they sure kill faster) but it wont be so much in your face and not so personal.
Is it ok to say that one specific class needs to have coordinated focus fire from 2-3 people to ever stand a chance of killing it? I'm not saying this is a thing exclusive to GWF, but in games of max 5 players...sacrificing 2-3 peoples attentions just to kill 1 person if everything goes right seems off to me.
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
And so does the ability to one shot people from stealth and being capable of staying in perms stealth...
Or in pve being able to control and burn entire armies of adds with a single class and the same encounter...
There are bigger problems in this game than a sentinel GWF
At least you can kill a gwf if focused good luck trying to catch a good tr that knows what he does with semi/full hide build and ubah gear....... or a fully geared tank dc .....
I'm sorry but I always laugh a little when people have issues with PvE. It's scripted content, there are vids with all classes doing it. And it's been said before, it's not a nerf CW issues, it's a fix the dungeon design issue.
This game had classes created using the trinity system basically, but then made dungeons runnable without the need of a properly balanced group etc. It's got identity issues.
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
I believe I covered that when I said it's not exclusive to GWF....
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
We're discussing pvp yet you decided to go off and babble about pve, you might as well have started talking about pink lemonade since it has just as much to do with the current discussion as your pve drivel. Anyone with at least a base level of reading comprehension would know the crutch I was referring to was the easymode GWF.
Yea well then we are back to streamlining the different classes, either some are tanky and can take alot of dam which would require 2-3 peeps to take him down and let some glass canon run around or we make all take about the same amount of dam and do the same amount of dam... I dont belive in the latter but some do and then the argument of sent being op in pvp becomes void as the change would be across all classes.
Pvp matches need team work which requires the different classes to work together with what they have in an optimal way to counter the other teams classes in taking points.
This just dont happend in pugs and sent has all the advantage of not being targeted by several with high regg and good(yea i admit very good) defence.
In pm vs pm a gf will take out any gwf on a point if contested 1-1 so many prefer gf (with some hefty increadiable burst dam) before gwf in such teams.
As mentioned above if you want to change pvp the changes you need to adress is far and beyond nerfing a single class....
You cant adress a change in a class in pvp only as it would effect its pve part also but that part you want to leave out.... very convenient.
Easy mode gwf -- you hard on reading are you mr babble alot. TR hard mode just lol cw hard mode even more lol hr hard mode err''
Gear up as full sent compare to other classes to gear up, dont come talking about easy mode and mention gwf sent ubah tanks in pve at the same time ....
Well if you are complaining about a tanker build being hard to kill that can sit on a node and have a big influence in a pvp result.. Then shouldn't we talk about the bad design of pvp then.. It's no different to the CW in pve... You say bad designed dungeons.. I say badly designed pvp maps and modes
You tell me what is the difference?
The mode is fine, problem is we need more modes. That being said I can already see GWF's being broken as hell in a CTF mode.
The problem is you guys act like sentinels do zero damage in pvp, Maybe you're not critting for 19k in one hit, but you're relentless pursuit, and knockdown chaining doing 6-10k hits is nothing to laugh at when most players don't go passed what, 24k, 25k hp unless specifically gearing to do so?
And you CAN change abilities for PvP/PvE seperately, they already do. Entangling Grasp holds waaaaay longer in PvE than in PvP.
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
However... the CW (besides very very marginal builds that are useless anywhere outside PvP) is not in a good place at all PvP wise. Some of the better to best CW sI know have given up completely on the class and now sport TRs, GWFs or HRs... because people want FUN. Being the first target and always having 3 people on you while you have extremely limited escape mechanics and are the squishiest class... not really fun.
So no nerfs and other such stuff, but either changes to how PvP/PvE works (dual spec, separation) or specific buffs to classes that suffer the most right now (CW... not to mention DC is either tanky DC or meh DC, so they need something as well).
See that's the problem already you highlight the issue of CW dominance in pve as "bad dungeon design, no issue with CW"
Then you say GWF is the issue in pvp.. Not bad pvp design... Sorry bud you can look it the situation with such bias.. It's the same situation.. Take nodes out of pvp completely and give points based on kills... Now how OP is sentinel GWF when they have nothing to protect?? See it's bad pvp design too
I have played other mmo's where the tank class has been virtually impossible to kill... And I have never seen such tears on those forums like I do here...
You ignore way too many factors in this game and point the finger at one...
Can anyone translate this into English so I can actually reply to it?
But lets say team are same but one side has ranger with an unchanged snare, it would also be one sided.
No we dont act like it but the differance is that you have to be up close do so while a cw hr can do it from range and a tr can pick its fight going in doing 25-30 vanish and rince and repeat without even taking dam (but thats balanced i guess).
As i said before threatening rush is what makes gwf over the top in module 2 as its an anfair gap closer that can be spamed.
Most important is what we are saying is that if you want a change it can not be one sided either to pvp or class. No class in this game has suffered more from heavy nerf then gwf when the last big nerfbat hit them.
Comment *the gwf are so cute nowdays when they are running around trying to kill something* was not unusal after that patch....
That is couse classes has resist from what i know(not 100% but pretty sure). The snare from 2 rangers targeting one player is absolutly game breaking as that player never will have a chanse to even get close and no escape in this game works to prevent it.
On top of that you have the *bugged?* ghost+fox+storm =dead player that hr can do right now.
CW CC abilities last for way less in PvP, regardless of resist from Wisdom stat or enchants. They we clearly tweaked to diminish their impact on players...
It was a good decision IMO. But probably other classes should undergo same type of tweaks
No suggestions no arguments but trash talking and now trying to put yourself on high horses by using some tone of being superior by pretending a text its not written in a way that suits you...
You have already proven yourself a troll this just confirms it....