I'm a well known old DnD fanatic too, like old Zeb, with 30 years of dungeon crawling, i dont like PvP in this game, but i'm an avid competitor and i play poker, i play SC2, i play all kind of PvP enviroments, and i agree PvPrs need a bone, i guess best way to give them one is to open foundry to design PvP maps... that will turn people crazy, people will have hundreds of maps to play, without the problems that other "foundry openings" (like boss fights and proper loot, which im still convinced is sorely needed) allow the players to design maps and play modes, but give them the same rewards... problem solved.
Agreed.
And even if they'd just take the best foundry maps out there, add a few loot drops and upgrade a boss, they could add permanent mission content to the game with very little work. Foundry, as of right now, is simply a means to tell a story, but not reward the participants or even really challenge them.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
What do you see when you think of a PvPer? Is it the twelve year-old fat German kid slamming his keyboard and cussing at the screen? Do you see tea-bagging and 'booyahs' as a bunch of college brats high-five?
What do you see when you think of an RPer? Do you see the idiot in local spouting how he is Darth Vader's son in your Neverwinter setting? Do you see the LAARP kid with glasses and a pocket protector spouting thee's and thou's with a lisp and acting like he's some great knight?
What do you see when you think of a PvEer? Do you see the same nerd trying to talk to you in the mess hall about his purple +6 sword of might that he killed the boss with? Do you imagine some fat, middle-aged do-nothing yelling in raid chat about how everyone isn't doing their jobs but him?
We all make preconcieved notions. I'm a 220lb butcher who's real hobby is powerlifting and who likes to go hunting every morning. Because I know that I don't fit the mold of an RPer, even though I am, I have to assume that you guys aren't fitting in your molds either.
It's easy to hate PvP, or at least avoid it, because you see the worst of that genre of players. But as you probably know, a good group of friends can turn the tables quick.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
It's easy to hate PvP, or at least avoid it, because you see the worst of that genre of players. But as you probably know, a good group of friends can turn the tables quick.
I dislike PvP in MMO's for two main reasons:
-The community. I don't like the standard PvPer. Not that I don't have firends who PvP but the general rule is that PvPers and I do not see on to eye on anything and have our moral compasses pointing 180 degrees from each other.
- I like PvP but I do not like PvP in PvE games. As far as I am concerned a game is one or the other and I do not like it when they mi. It causes too much grief and drama. I play to have fun and I can have fun in a PvP game like League of Legends and I can have fun in a PvE game like Neverwinter but I can't have fun in a game which tries to mix the two like EvE or Guild Wars.
If I am getting stressed I'm not having fun. If I'm not having fun then why they hell am I wasting my time doing that action rather than something enjoyable in my off time?
The difference to me in Neverwinter is that the PvP is more in line with LoL. Matchmaking needs to be improved because right now I refuse to PvP anymore due to this matchmaking disaster.
I don't want more maps. I don't want more strategies. I want matchmaking to actually attempt to put together an interesting match rather than making it a random chance whether you face a group of poor fresh level 60's with gear scores in the pits or PvP built characters with gear scores through the roof that you have no chance of defeating because you care more about PvE than PvP.
Without matchmaking getting improved I will not PvP anymore and it's a shame because I actually enjoyed NW's PvP for the first time ever in an MMO which wasn't a pure PvP game.
But like Zeb I love PvP. I love PvE.
But I love them to be separate games. This was the first time I ever, and I do mean ever, liked PvP in a game which wasn't a PvP game.
What do you see when you think of a PvPer?
What do you see when you think of an RPer?
What do you see when you think of a PvEer?
PvPer*: The people who derive pleasure from PvP generally delight in taunting/harrasing/abusing other players to generate a negative emotional reaction from their "prey" and take somewhat sadistic pleasure in killing/dominating the other player,the definition and personality type gets somewhat less definitive when you throw in premade PvP teams as they will only occasionally taunt/harass/abuse and mostly joke amongst themselves gaining a majority of their enjoyment from comradery and winning together. On the whole though their play-style is not intuitively conducive to coexisting peacefully with other members of the games community.
RPer*: Your average RPer is someone who gains enjoyment from either constructing or partaking in a fictional universe with an in-depth story/roleplay, often enjoys playing alone in their simulacrum storyverse. Occasionally will party with other players if it helps further their immersion yet are still accepting of others in the games community.
PvEer*: The typical PvEer is a person who enjoys shiney achievements/looting purpley doodats/storing currency for a rainy day. They will enter any game mode provided it rewards them with some form of purpley doodat/achievement/currency that enables them to kill more inanimate objects to get more purple items. They are not adverse to forming parties to overcome challenges in the way of getting the purpley doodats/achievements/currency and is accepting of any player as long as they don't get in the way of said purpley doodats/achievements/currency.
*Please bear in mind that these are generalizations and opinionated rules of thumb and there are always exceptions to the rules and differences in thumb size.
If you have ever played League of Legends, which is one of the most popular PvP Games on the market ATM, all of those things exist there..
I am talking about FP-MMOs, not MOBAs. And concerning the regen part. What I mean: Regen during battle is nonsens. I don't wanna see 3% HP TRs that stealth and come out of stealth with 20%. Happend to me last time again in Neverwinter. Regen should be an out of combat attribute. During combat one should rely on armor, healthpoints and their healers. The best strategies evolve when you stick to classes doing certain things. If everyone heals themselves up why do you need healers and whom do you focus? Also why should anyone in your team protect anyone?
One of the best PVP open world (and even scenario) experience I had was in EQ2. They clearly were able to put PVP balanced into a PVP game with lots of rewards and challenges (they also separated PVP attributes on items and abilities from PVE ones). And if you once fought with several raid groups against other raid groups while 24 people tried to watch each other, healers were supported by the team, the nasty targets were taken out first etc. then you know what teamplay really can be like. Neverwinter PVP is Rambo-style. "I can heal up, I can kick someone around, I can stealth, I have armor so who needs teammates anyway".
I heard someone say here, that pvp are game killers? That mmos are pve with a dash of pvp?....
WOW...i must have been playing some weird obscure games then. Cos the games i came from, were ALL pvp, SO pvp, that your DAILY QUESTS area was PK ENABLED...anytime, anywhere.
It's weird...that your argument is game killing.....U say that a pvper would spend a lil cash, get stomped then take our ball and go home...
I'm not gonna CURSE at you...i will just state FACTS.
My previous game.
Every week, there are territory wars, for ownership of territories, that would pay out currency used in those territories to the winning faction. ALL OUT pvp between two factions.
ASIDE from these weekly wars, there are WARS between guilds that have thru the course of the game formed strong rivalries.
I was there for 4 YEARS. 4 years, in one of the 2 top guilds, constantly warring for supremacy, everyday, all day. The equipment to be TRULY pro at the game, was (no exaggeration) 1k USD BASIC set at+0. The max is+12, that would roughly cost u ANOTHER 500-700usd.
1 guild has 200 ppl. so 2 guilds top guilds = 400 ppl....EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAS THE BEST SET.
So what does this tell you? And the game is STILL going. I opted out cos of a change in job amongst other things...
So basically the PVPERS are paying for the whole **** game....and LOVING IT.
No exaggeration...there have been 12 HOUR pk wars.....7pm to 7am....I was in it.
The point of all these things i am saying is......there WERE PVERS TOO. They co-exist and enjoy the free game. The pvpers went HARDCORE, 5 FIGURES and enjoyed the game too.
Thats all i have to say. If NW wants to be that game that just caters to one genre, and totally ignoring the other...especially sicne the other is more likely to PAY FOR THIS GAME...Then....Good luck. u got till 2014, when all the other titles come out...with OPEN WORLD pvp.
Lets see if u sink or swim.
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
I am talking about FP-MMOs, not MOBAs. And concerning the regen part. What I mean: Regen during battle is nonsens. I don't wanna see 3% HP TRs that stealth and come out of stealth with 20%. Happend to me last time again in Neverwinter. Regen should be an out of combat attribute. During combat one should rely on armor, healthpoints and their healers. The best strategies evolve when you stick to classes doing certain things. If everyone heals themselves up why do you need healers and whom do you focus? Also why should anyone in your team protect anyone?
One of the best PVP open world (and even scenario) experience I had was in EQ2. They clearly were able to put PVP balanced into a PVP game with lots of rewards and challenges (they also separated PVP attributes on items and abilities from PVE ones). And if you once fought with several raid groups against other raid groups while 24 people tried to watch each other, healers were supported by the team, the nasty targets were taken out first etc. then you know what teamplay really can be like. Neverwinter PVP is Rambo-style. "I can heal up, I can kick someone around, I can stealth, I have armor so who needs teammates anyway".
Your logic is very flawed, just saying. Who or what is keeping you from using regen gear, yourself? If regen was an out of combat passive, it would destroy pve aswell as pvp for obvious reasons. Besides, idk if you are one of the "new people" but the regen we see nowadays was nerfed into the ground already. Do some research before posting irrelevant things, please.
Pve is a great way, to farm items to get better at pvp to me.
This here is entirely why I consider PvP to be a game killer. your average PvPer doesn't really care about the story, or the events that happen in an MMO beyond how much xp and items come with it. If you gave them a spot to stand where monsters would come to them and drop fat loot, well, they'd stand there.
And when companies see this, they start tossing out lock boxes and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> instead of story and content; which in turn destroys the game for anyone NOT there to PvP.
And the thing is, again, that Cryptic games don't feel like they were supposed to be PvP. CoH and WoW feel PvP. they have (or had) opposing factions. They had reasons to go and fight everyone. And to be honest, in those games it fit well into both play types (PvE and PvP) because the games were built for it.
If Neverwinter feels to you like it doesn't really support PvP, it's likely because the game wasn't really built with it in mind. Yeah, you can fight each other, but no, it shouldn't get it's own special maps for PvP. No it shouldn't be balanced out for fairness. Asking for that sort of thing is really asking for someone to make you a different game then you are currently playing.
This is D&D folks. The original RP for Pen and Paper.
Oh, which by the way, was NOT DM vs player. I saw that a couple times. Your DM is your ref, and your world builder. His/her job was never to 'beat' the players. D&D is not PvP; it's joint storytelling.
And this is why I feel that, with such extreme bias and dismissiveness on the part of the diehard, 'PVE Only or Nothing' crowd, that it's not a matter of fairness or enjoyment or sharing, as they like to claim. They completely dismiss the teamplay atmosphere and cooperation required to do well in PvP.
It's about hoarding what you can of the developers interests and time, hoping that it pushes away your rivals.
It's a subtle difference in the extremism. They argue so hard, that they cross the line of 'we want an update first' into 'we'd rather no update then they get an update'.
The average PvPer? I AM the average PvPer. And I care about story. I care about loot. I care about dungeons not being boring the second and 20th time I run them and the mechanics in those dungeons giving each class a defined role and capability and use. I care whether my class feels useful in that dungeon run that I keep doing over and over again in order to build my next T2 set. I actually give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> whether my class gets taken along and is wanted in the skirmish runs.
I am the average PvPer. And I say some of you can literally take your assumptions, and your high horses that you so proudly sit upon to espouse how much better you are than these 'griefing' and 'insulting' PvPers, and enjoy your game as you do. I do hope I never do a dungeon run with you, because no matter how fun it might be, I know you'll never truly respect my playstyle or what I, as a player, bring to the table.
It's tantamount to racism in an environment where the color of our skin has no import, but our preference in gametype does.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
No you're not. You care about story, and you care about loot.
Since I am the one you're quoting, lets cover what the 'average' PvPer is. Your average PvPer is the guy who wants nothing more than an edge on other players, because he is in the game to win against other players. When I say that your average PvP player will just stand still and get stuff if they could, it's because many of the 'average' PvPer is here to farm for items and xp so they can win against other players.
A PvP player is, on average, only interested in making their character ready for their next fight against another player. It's almost like that's what PvP is. Player vs. Player.
Or, as I said without the half quote: "your average PvPer doesn't really care about the story, or the events that happen in an MMO beyond how much xp and items come with it. If you gave them a spot to stand where monsters would come to them and drop fat loot, well, they'd stand there."
My argument is not in any way against this sort of play style. it is that this sort of play style kills games NOT MADE FOR PVP. You know, like Neverwinter. I've never said it shouldn't be available (nor did you accuse me of saying it, I'm just making my point here). I've said that Neverwinter was not made with it in mind.
When you see the MMOs that were made with PvP in mind, you know you're seeing it. Different factions, balance systems, score boards. When PvPers get mad that a game that doesn't have these things doesn't seem set for PvP, it bothers me.
Worse, I watch games NOT DESIGNED with a full PvP set in mind scramble to make their product more accessable to these players by discarding plans to make new content. They toss aside any PvE stuff in exchange for a quick money grab from folks that will show up, throw ten-twenty bucks at their screen, then leave.
You want to know where that's coming from right now? Go play Champions. They have replaced Adventure packs with two minute alerts and pay to win lockboxes. The game has a strong RP crowd, but PWE wants to instead cater to twitch players that will just toss a bit of cash and then go away.
And I'm sorry, I've tried to be polite about it, but that was the type of player that OP looks to be.
"So Let's talk for real,Online games isn't all about Pve It about Pvp more than pve really,
Why you think people Come to online games ??
Maybe to Face other people and pvp them and have online fun ???"
That quote? That's an average PvPer. The guy that can't be bothered saying hi, but is happy to just walk up and challenge you again and again intill you either outrun him or agree to fight? That's your average PvPer. I'm sorry, Lobo, that you're taking it personally, because you honestly don't sound like your average PvPer. So let me set it straight. Enjoying PvP does NOT make you the average. Being a twitch player that only pops on to exert dominance over other players does.
And that's not a bad thing if you're running with a like minded crowd. Expecting every online game to change and cater to you IS bad though.
And racism? Really? That's where you want to go with this?
In my opinion, the most troubling aspect of PvP is the attitudes of the people that I encounter. On my team and the other. There is precious little sportsmanship, no "honor" among the participants. If a team member dies do to a self imposed mistake then he is ridiculed by his team in addition to the jeers of the opposition. That does not make for an enjoyable experience.
Please note, I am not looking specifically at NWO. I see this sort of behavior in just about every PvP experience, whether it is in a PvP focused game or in the PvP section of a predominantly PvE game. The general outlook of a dedicated PvPer is anathema to my own methods of entertainment, so I avoid PvP and dedicated PvPers like the plague. And I think we are all better off.
Without ridiculing anyone. i'd really like to know. pardon my LACK OF UNDERSTANDING here.....But do the pvers...ummm PVE to get better stuff, to PVE better? I don;t understand the GOAL here. No sacrcasm...i just really don't understand whats the point of farming so hard...to be able to...FARM BETTER? Against AI that basically does the same attacks over and over again? Please clarify.
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
Without ridiculing anyone. i'd really like to know. pardon my LACK OF UNDERSTANDING here.....But do the pvers...ummm PVE to get better stuff, to PVE better? I don;t understand the GOAL here. No sacrcasm...i just really don't understand whats the point of farming so hard...to be able to...FARM BETTER? Against AI that basically does the same attacks over and over again? Please clarify.
The PvE people generally want shiny stuff for the sake of shiny stuff.
Those who exclusively focus on PvE in games usually rise for achievements, mission complete, and loot. Yes, it's to have the best. And they compete for it, amongst friends and rivals, to show how much they have accomplished. I would argue, in general, most simply like the camaraderie and the feeling of completion.
But as a whole, they grind just as much as a PvPers. They glitch and exploit just as much as anyone, really. They insult team members for not performing, and they ridicule guides where players demonstrate other ideals not conducive to their own. And for some reason, they are extremely dismissive of others, including other classes and gamestyles ... just as much as everyone else.
All in all, the worst of the PvE community is no worse than the worse of the PvP community. It's still the same selfish, immature and obnoxious type of folks, just with a different gamestyle.
Luckily, there are plenty who sit in the middle, either enjoying one more than the other or both equally, who are just here to have fun and good times.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
Without ridiculing anyone. i'd really like to know. pardon my LACK OF UNDERSTANDING here.....But do the pvers...ummm PVE to get better stuff, to PVE better? I don;t understand the GOAL here. No sacrcasm...i just really don't understand whats the point of farming so hard...to be able to...FARM BETTER? Against AI that basically does the same attacks over and over again? Please clarify.
Nah... you cannot be serious
It's the beloved&hated MMO treadmill... the power creep. You get more stats, mobs get bigger and badder and (hopefully) with new abilities and so on.
You farm more, you crit better, you last longer, whatever...
Ideally, by the time you have BiS gear, new expansion is released with yet another set of dungeons containing yet another tier of gear to go for and desire. Also not all games have the same <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> "more mobs and more red zones" lazy dungeon design.
Without ridiculing anyone. i'd really like to know. pardon my LACK OF UNDERSTANDING here.....But do the pvers...ummm PVE to get better stuff, to PVE better? I don;t understand the GOAL here. No sacrcasm...i just really don't understand whats the point of farming so hard...to be able to...FARM BETTER? Against AI that basically does the same attacks over and over again? Please clarify.
That is a freaking awesome question.
I PvE to hang with friends. In many ways, I sorta suck at most MMOs, 'cause I don't really care about stats and stuff; what since my characters only have to be good enough to kick the crud out of the AI. But yeah, it's mostly just to raid with and hang out with other players. The farming point throws me off, because I'm not beyond the amount that the game itself makes me do (go and find ten of whatever to finish quest sort of things.)
I'd say that I'm here to RP as well, but to be honest, that's a different beast. I do RP with friends when questing and stuff, but we're just as likely to just joke around.
That I guess is what I get out of PvE. I'm not sure if that's what everyone else gets...
No you're not. You care about story, and you care about loot.
Since I am the one you're quoting, lets cover what the 'average' PvPer is. Your average PvPer is the guy who wants nothing more than an edge on other players, because he is in the game to win against other players. When I say that your average PvP player will just stand still and get stuff if they could, it's because many of the 'average' PvPer is here to farm for items and xp so they can win against other players.
A PvP player is, on average, only interested in making their character ready for their next fight against another player. It's almost like that's what PvP is. Player vs. Player.
Or, as I said without the half quote: "your average PvPer doesn't really care about the story, or the events that happen in an MMO beyond how much xp and items come with it. If you gave them a spot to stand where monsters would come to them and drop fat loot, well, they'd stand there."
My argument is not in any way against this sort of play style. it is that this sort of play style kills games NOT MADE FOR PVP. You know, like Neverwinter. I've never said it shouldn't be available (nor did you accuse me of saying it, I'm just making my point here). I've said that Neverwinter was not made with it in mind.
When you see the MMOs that were made with PvP in mind, you know you're seeing it. Different factions, balance systems, score boards. When PvPers get mad that a game that doesn't have these things doesn't seem set for PvP, it bothers me.
Worse, I watch games NOT DESIGNED with a full PvP set in mind scramble to make their product more accessable to these players by discarding plans to make new content. They toss aside any PvE stuff in exchange for a quick money grab from folks that will show up, throw ten-twenty bucks at their screen, then leave.
You want to know where that's coming from right now? Go play Champions. They have replaced Adventure packs with two minute alerts and pay to win lockboxes. The game has a strong RP crowd, but PWE wants to instead cater to twitch players that will just toss a bit of cash and then go away.
And I'm sorry, I've tried to be polite about it, but that was the type of player that OP looks to be.
"So Let's talk for real,Online games isn't all about Pve It about Pvp more than pve really,
Why you think people Come to online games ??
Maybe to Face other people and pvp them and have online fun ???"
That quote? That's an average PvPer. The guy that can't be bothered saying hi, but is happy to just walk up and challenge you again and again intill you either outrun him or agree to fight? That's your average PvPer. I'm sorry, Lobo, that you're taking it personally, because you honestly don't sound like your average PvPer. So let me set it straight. Enjoying PvP does NOT make you the average. Being a twitch player that only pops on to exert dominance over other players does.
And that's not a bad thing if you're running with a like minded crowd. Expecting every online game to change and cater to you IS bad though.
And racism? Really? That's where you want to go with this?
My point was that you define average, yet your taking what as your base of measurement? Me and my friends? The thousands of PvP focused gamers I've hung out with in large gaming circles across how many span of years? You are intimately experienced with that crowd, a member, who sees them for who they are and what they are, to make that 'average' assumption?
I'm saying you are taking bad experiences, and making them the average. This would be the same as a PvPer saying that every PvEr is secretly a coward who can't handle a little competition and friendly joking amongst adults, and who is so insecure in their game that they can't stand anyone else being involved without their say.
I've heard that assumption before, and when I've heard it, I've put it down too. For what it is. A baseless, false assumption. The 'average' PvEr (as I once was, being against PvP in all forms when I was younger) is not a coward. They just want a casual game experience. They aren't against competition, they just choose not to partake in it all the time. They aren't insecure, they just have a choice and have made it.
I'm preaching tolerance and respect, is what I'm doing. I'm standing on a soapbox, with an army of friends (and enemies, so it stands) behind me who argue that there is plenty of middle ground.
And in NWO, there is a middle ground. I would argue against anyone who would propose open pvp all the time here in NWO. I argue against requiring PvP by the playerbase (I do not see a daily OPTIONAL quest as a requirement, no matter how much the individuals greed feels it is).
I do feel that NWO's combat engine, and development staff, can support a fun and enticing PvP experience (something Wizards of the Coast intended with the 4e revisions, by the way; online gaming and competitive online gaming, that is). And I would like if it did get a bit more flavor.
But I won't oppose the addition of new dungeons, just like nobody in Prototype or Silent Blade or UnS or any number of great PvP guilds would. They play just as many dungeons and skirmishes as anybody. And there are a lot of us who are in GG everytime we can and run Arena PvP over and over again who can tell you the backstory on why Lord Neverember is on the throne and that Malabog was nothing but a puppet. They pay attention.
To assume, in general, that the average PvPer does not care? That's just something people make up to support their selfish intents, nothing more.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
i likewhenyoukilla dragon andanice pairof bootsor amarvellouscloak appears!
Don't we all?
I don't like it when I kill a dragon and some gear drops that my slave would snub his nose at, though.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
Too many walls of text in this thread, even for me.
1. PvE and PvP aren't mutually exclusive play styles. I enjoy both. Many other players do as well. A term such as "the average PvPer" is pretty much meaningless.
2. PvE in an MMO is fun in the way that combat in single player or coop games can be fun. Team up (or don't), unlock and use your powers and abilities, achieve objectives, read some text, and get more shinies. If your only preference for game play style is direct competition against another player, then obviously none of the above will appeal.
3. PvP is fun because it provides faster-paced combat with a greater focus on strategy and reaction. Most game content is 5 players against dozens of NPCs. It's very different to go up against a handful of (possibly) equally strong and skilled PCs.
4. Both play styles should be supported and as seamlessly (and optionally) linked as possible for maximum player base enjoyment. It's up to the devs to come up with satisfactory ways to balance for PvP without accidentally and needlessly diminishing PvE gameplay.
kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
More pvp options please.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Too many walls of text in this thread, even for me.
1. PvE and PvP aren't mutually exclusive play styles. I enjoy both. Many other players do as well. A term such as "the average PvPer" is pretty much meaningless.
2. PvE in an MMO is fun in the way that combat in single player or coop games can be fun. Team up (or don't), unlock and use your powers and abilities, achieve objectives, read some text, and get more shinies. If your only preference for game play style is direct competition against another player, then obviously none of the above will appeal.
3. PvP is fun because it provides faster-paced combat with a greater focus on strategy and reaction. Most game content is 5 players against dozens of NPCs. It's very different to go up against a handful of (possibly) equally strong and skilled PCs.
4. Both play styles should be supported and as seamlessly (and optionally) linked as possible for maximum player base enjoyment. It's up to the devs to come up with satisfactory ways to balance for PvP without accidentally and needlessly diminishing PvE gameplay.
+1
You have my ... um ... sword-that-happens-to-look-like-an-axe?
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
The current situation is that the powers of the various classes are distorted for the sake of 'balanced' pvp (which isnt even balanced imo). They are too far from the classic pnp roles and therfore they all are 'equal' when it comes to pvp. So the game doesnt really feel like a ROLE-play game in pvp. Maybe the cleric - as a 'partial' healer - has a small role. But as alreay mentioned, this role is undermined by the various regen and potions.
In my personal opinion it is unimmersive that clerics, rogues and wizards are participating in arena fights on a regular basis. Clerics and rogues are simply no fighter classes. They have other strengths (and yes, even your 'assassin' would get down by his wounds taken because of not wearing armor). And my picture of wizards is that most of them are either not interested and/or weaklings and busy studying or way too powerful to fit into a battleground/arena. They would let others or their minions do the dirty job instead.
So enjoy the pvp here if you like, but bare in mind that it is very far away from a true rp setting.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
This game was made by Cryptic Studios, which focuses on PvE.
It is hosted by PWE, which focuses on PvE.
It is based on Dungeons & Dragons, which has been fully PvE (last time I checked) for decades.
And you want this game to be fully PvP?
*throws tomato at you*
0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited October 2013
MMO's have a bad habbit of taking the optional fun that PvP should be and somehow trying to mix it with PvE.
This is the only thing I stand against.
If you like PvP, that's fine. It's up to you.
But PvP zones which have any form of PvE are a no-no-no to me.
In my experience the only way to populate those zones to the contentment of the PvP crowd is to give superior drops and rewards for doing PvE activities in a PvP zone.
To me this is like having a bunch of happy sheep in their pen contentedly eating grass...but then adding in a system where the grass really is greener on the other side but telling them they have to be subject to the risk of being eaten by the wolves. This is something most PvE players don't enjoy.
Content like that exists to feed the wolves (PvP Players) and hurt the sheep.
Players should be allowed to play whatever they like to their heart's content short of the fact this is a PvE game so skipping to max level and gear because you just want to PvP is not an option as it would kill the PvE side of the game.
I don't mind if additonal content is added for PvP...
But I don't agree with more maps or PvP Zones being required.
Making the PvP less of a mess of mismatched groups should be the priority. That's the main issue which plagues PvP...it's not fun to have no chance of winning or no chance of losing all the time and no way to predict which.
Adding in more maps won't fix what prevents NW's PvP from being as good as it can be. If you already enjoy it, great, but there's a dire need to make it enjoyable to those who like to have more competitive and less steamrolling matches.
Thanks for the replies. At least i understand better the type of ppl i'm talking to.
All your replies have good info....but there is ONE STATEMENT...that nearly made me fall off my chair....."It is hosted by PWE that focuses on PVE"
SAY WHAT?????
Please go try PWI,Forsaken World, or ANY of their other games for a WEEK.
Jeez, ppl wold just BLAST any kinda nonsense these days-__-
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
The majority of my time was spent grinding in order to even get to the main city + exploring, in PWI, and crafting and socializing while questing - and, thus, grinding - as well as exploring...in FW.
Show me when, exactly, those games turned into slaughterhouses. I'd like to see it - because despite years of playing both games, even through Sebestimation, I've never seen PvP as a major thing...even in the chats.
--
Now, I would understand it if you stated Cryptic was more PvP, since that IS an option, but taking CoH for example...you have to go through, what, how many areas in order to get to the other faction's lands and PvP them?
only the games which had BIG pvp part (equal to pve) were successful enough to last some years. all others died soon or have minor population. so do you want this to last or not?
This is D&D. Even if SOME games rely more on a PvP base, D&D has always been PvE and the fanbase for D&D - which is honestly overwhelming - will always make up for any drops in game population due to PvP being erased.
But that isn't the issue here. The issue is that we have people, like the OP, that want to eliminate PvE...from a game based on a 100% PvE franchise. It's never going to happen.
Comments
Agreed.
And even if they'd just take the best foundry maps out there, add a few loot drops and upgrade a boss, they could add permanent mission content to the game with very little work. Foundry, as of right now, is simply a means to tell a story, but not reward the participants or even really challenge them.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
What do you see when you think of a PvPer? Is it the twelve year-old fat German kid slamming his keyboard and cussing at the screen? Do you see tea-bagging and 'booyahs' as a bunch of college brats high-five?
What do you see when you think of an RPer? Do you see the idiot in local spouting how he is Darth Vader's son in your Neverwinter setting? Do you see the LAARP kid with glasses and a pocket protector spouting thee's and thou's with a lisp and acting like he's some great knight?
What do you see when you think of a PvEer? Do you see the same nerd trying to talk to you in the mess hall about his purple +6 sword of might that he killed the boss with? Do you imagine some fat, middle-aged do-nothing yelling in raid chat about how everyone isn't doing their jobs but him?
We all make preconcieved notions. I'm a 220lb butcher who's real hobby is powerlifting and who likes to go hunting every morning. Because I know that I don't fit the mold of an RPer, even though I am, I have to assume that you guys aren't fitting in your molds either.
It's easy to hate PvP, or at least avoid it, because you see the worst of that genre of players. But as you probably know, a good group of friends can turn the tables quick.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
I dislike PvP in MMO's for two main reasons:
-The community. I don't like the standard PvPer. Not that I don't have firends who PvP but the general rule is that PvPers and I do not see on to eye on anything and have our moral compasses pointing 180 degrees from each other.
- I like PvP but I do not like PvP in PvE games. As far as I am concerned a game is one or the other and I do not like it when they mi. It causes too much grief and drama. I play to have fun and I can have fun in a PvP game like League of Legends and I can have fun in a PvE game like Neverwinter but I can't have fun in a game which tries to mix the two like EvE or Guild Wars.
If I am getting stressed I'm not having fun. If I'm not having fun then why they hell am I wasting my time doing that action rather than something enjoyable in my off time?
The difference to me in Neverwinter is that the PvP is more in line with LoL. Matchmaking needs to be improved because right now I refuse to PvP anymore due to this matchmaking disaster.
I don't want more maps. I don't want more strategies. I want matchmaking to actually attempt to put together an interesting match rather than making it a random chance whether you face a group of poor fresh level 60's with gear scores in the pits or PvP built characters with gear scores through the roof that you have no chance of defeating because you care more about PvE than PvP.
Without matchmaking getting improved I will not PvP anymore and it's a shame because I actually enjoyed NW's PvP for the first time ever in an MMO which wasn't a pure PvP game.
But like Zeb I love PvP. I love PvE.
But I love them to be separate games. This was the first time I ever, and I do mean ever, liked PvP in a game which wasn't a PvP game.
PvPer*: The people who derive pleasure from PvP generally delight in taunting/harrasing/abusing other players to generate a negative emotional reaction from their "prey" and take somewhat sadistic pleasure in killing/dominating the other player,the definition and personality type gets somewhat less definitive when you throw in premade PvP teams as they will only occasionally taunt/harass/abuse and mostly joke amongst themselves gaining a majority of their enjoyment from comradery and winning together. On the whole though their play-style is not intuitively conducive to coexisting peacefully with other members of the games community.
RPer*: Your average RPer is someone who gains enjoyment from either constructing or partaking in a fictional universe with an in-depth story/roleplay, often enjoys playing alone in their simulacrum storyverse. Occasionally will party with other players if it helps further their immersion yet are still accepting of others in the games community.
PvEer*: The typical PvEer is a person who enjoys shiney achievements/looting purpley doodats/storing currency for a rainy day. They will enter any game mode provided it rewards them with some form of purpley doodat/achievement/currency that enables them to kill more inanimate objects to get more purple items. They are not adverse to forming parties to overcome challenges in the way of getting the purpley doodats/achievements/currency and is accepting of any player as long as they don't get in the way of said purpley doodats/achievements/currency.
*Please bear in mind that these are generalizations and opinionated rules of thumb and there are always exceptions to the rules and differences in thumb size.
I am talking about FP-MMOs, not MOBAs. And concerning the regen part. What I mean: Regen during battle is nonsens. I don't wanna see 3% HP TRs that stealth and come out of stealth with 20%. Happend to me last time again in Neverwinter. Regen should be an out of combat attribute. During combat one should rely on armor, healthpoints and their healers. The best strategies evolve when you stick to classes doing certain things. If everyone heals themselves up why do you need healers and whom do you focus? Also why should anyone in your team protect anyone?
One of the best PVP open world (and even scenario) experience I had was in EQ2. They clearly were able to put PVP balanced into a PVP game with lots of rewards and challenges (they also separated PVP attributes on items and abilities from PVE ones). And if you once fought with several raid groups against other raid groups while 24 people tried to watch each other, healers were supported by the team, the nasty targets were taken out first etc. then you know what teamplay really can be like. Neverwinter PVP is Rambo-style. "I can heal up, I can kick someone around, I can stealth, I have armor so who needs teammates anyway".
WOW...i must have been playing some weird obscure games then. Cos the games i came from, were ALL pvp, SO pvp, that your DAILY QUESTS area was PK ENABLED...anytime, anywhere.
It's weird...that your argument is game killing.....U say that a pvper would spend a lil cash, get stomped then take our ball and go home...
I'm not gonna CURSE at you...i will just state FACTS.
My previous game.
Every week, there are territory wars, for ownership of territories, that would pay out currency used in those territories to the winning faction. ALL OUT pvp between two factions.
ASIDE from these weekly wars, there are WARS between guilds that have thru the course of the game formed strong rivalries.
I was there for 4 YEARS. 4 years, in one of the 2 top guilds, constantly warring for supremacy, everyday, all day. The equipment to be TRULY pro at the game, was (no exaggeration) 1k USD BASIC set at+0. The max is+12, that would roughly cost u ANOTHER 500-700usd.
1 guild has 200 ppl. so 2 guilds top guilds = 400 ppl....EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAS THE BEST SET.
So what does this tell you? And the game is STILL going. I opted out cos of a change in job amongst other things...
So basically the PVPERS are paying for the whole **** game....and LOVING IT.
No exaggeration...there have been 12 HOUR pk wars.....7pm to 7am....I was in it.
The point of all these things i am saying is......there WERE PVERS TOO. They co-exist and enjoy the free game. The pvpers went HARDCORE, 5 FIGURES and enjoyed the game too.
Thats all i have to say. If NW wants to be that game that just caters to one genre, and totally ignoring the other...especially sicne the other is more likely to PAY FOR THIS GAME...Then....Good luck. u got till 2014, when all the other titles come out...with OPEN WORLD pvp.
Lets see if u sink or swim.
Your logic is very flawed, just saying. Who or what is keeping you from using regen gear, yourself? If regen was an out of combat passive, it would destroy pve aswell as pvp for obvious reasons. Besides, idk if you are one of the "new people" but the regen we see nowadays was nerfed into the ground already. Do some research before posting irrelevant things, please.
Cheers.
This here is entirely why I consider PvP to be a game killer. your average PvPer doesn't really care about the story, or the events that happen in an MMO beyond how much xp and items come with it. If you gave them a spot to stand where monsters would come to them and drop fat loot, well, they'd stand there.
And when companies see this, they start tossing out lock boxes and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> instead of story and content; which in turn destroys the game for anyone NOT there to PvP.
And the thing is, again, that Cryptic games don't feel like they were supposed to be PvP. CoH and WoW feel PvP. they have (or had) opposing factions. They had reasons to go and fight everyone. And to be honest, in those games it fit well into both play types (PvE and PvP) because the games were built for it.
If Neverwinter feels to you like it doesn't really support PvP, it's likely because the game wasn't really built with it in mind. Yeah, you can fight each other, but no, it shouldn't get it's own special maps for PvP. No it shouldn't be balanced out for fairness. Asking for that sort of thing is really asking for someone to make you a different game then you are currently playing.
This is D&D folks. The original RP for Pen and Paper.
Oh, which by the way, was NOT DM vs player. I saw that a couple times. Your DM is your ref, and your world builder. His/her job was never to 'beat' the players. D&D is not PvP; it's joint storytelling.
I'm glad to see that Cryptic got that right.
I draw as Masamundane.
And this is why I feel that, with such extreme bias and dismissiveness on the part of the diehard, 'PVE Only or Nothing' crowd, that it's not a matter of fairness or enjoyment or sharing, as they like to claim. They completely dismiss the teamplay atmosphere and cooperation required to do well in PvP.
It's about hoarding what you can of the developers interests and time, hoping that it pushes away your rivals.
It's a subtle difference in the extremism. They argue so hard, that they cross the line of 'we want an update first' into 'we'd rather no update then they get an update'.
The average PvPer? I AM the average PvPer. And I care about story. I care about loot. I care about dungeons not being boring the second and 20th time I run them and the mechanics in those dungeons giving each class a defined role and capability and use. I care whether my class feels useful in that dungeon run that I keep doing over and over again in order to build my next T2 set. I actually give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> whether my class gets taken along and is wanted in the skirmish runs.
I am the average PvPer. And I say some of you can literally take your assumptions, and your high horses that you so proudly sit upon to espouse how much better you are than these 'griefing' and 'insulting' PvPers, and enjoy your game as you do. I do hope I never do a dungeon run with you, because no matter how fun it might be, I know you'll never truly respect my playstyle or what I, as a player, bring to the table.
It's tantamount to racism in an environment where the color of our skin has no import, but our preference in gametype does.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
No you're not. You care about story, and you care about loot.
Since I am the one you're quoting, lets cover what the 'average' PvPer is. Your average PvPer is the guy who wants nothing more than an edge on other players, because he is in the game to win against other players. When I say that your average PvP player will just stand still and get stuff if they could, it's because many of the 'average' PvPer is here to farm for items and xp so they can win against other players.
A PvP player is, on average, only interested in making their character ready for their next fight against another player. It's almost like that's what PvP is. Player vs. Player.
Or, as I said without the half quote: "your average PvPer doesn't really care about the story, or the events that happen in an MMO beyond how much xp and items come with it. If you gave them a spot to stand where monsters would come to them and drop fat loot, well, they'd stand there."
My argument is not in any way against this sort of play style. it is that this sort of play style kills games NOT MADE FOR PVP. You know, like Neverwinter. I've never said it shouldn't be available (nor did you accuse me of saying it, I'm just making my point here). I've said that Neverwinter was not made with it in mind.
When you see the MMOs that were made with PvP in mind, you know you're seeing it. Different factions, balance systems, score boards. When PvPers get mad that a game that doesn't have these things doesn't seem set for PvP, it bothers me.
Worse, I watch games NOT DESIGNED with a full PvP set in mind scramble to make their product more accessable to these players by discarding plans to make new content. They toss aside any PvE stuff in exchange for a quick money grab from folks that will show up, throw ten-twenty bucks at their screen, then leave.
You want to know where that's coming from right now? Go play Champions. They have replaced Adventure packs with two minute alerts and pay to win lockboxes. The game has a strong RP crowd, but PWE wants to instead cater to twitch players that will just toss a bit of cash and then go away.
And I'm sorry, I've tried to be polite about it, but that was the type of player that OP looks to be.
"So Let's talk for real,Online games isn't all about Pve It about Pvp more than pve really,
Why you think people Come to online games ??
Maybe to Face other people and pvp them and have online fun ???"
That quote? That's an average PvPer. The guy that can't be bothered saying hi, but is happy to just walk up and challenge you again and again intill you either outrun him or agree to fight? That's your average PvPer. I'm sorry, Lobo, that you're taking it personally, because you honestly don't sound like your average PvPer. So let me set it straight. Enjoying PvP does NOT make you the average. Being a twitch player that only pops on to exert dominance over other players does.
And that's not a bad thing if you're running with a like minded crowd. Expecting every online game to change and cater to you IS bad though.
And racism? Really? That's where you want to go with this?
I draw as Masamundane.
Please note, I am not looking specifically at NWO. I see this sort of behavior in just about every PvP experience, whether it is in a PvP focused game or in the PvP section of a predominantly PvE game. The general outlook of a dedicated PvPer is anathema to my own methods of entertainment, so I avoid PvP and dedicated PvPers like the plague. And I think we are all better off.
I think this sums it up pretty nicely: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?506071-Some-words-for-Devs&p=6272681&viewfull=1#post6272681
The PvE people generally want shiny stuff for the sake of shiny stuff.
Those who exclusively focus on PvE in games usually rise for achievements, mission complete, and loot. Yes, it's to have the best. And they compete for it, amongst friends and rivals, to show how much they have accomplished. I would argue, in general, most simply like the camaraderie and the feeling of completion.
But as a whole, they grind just as much as a PvPers. They glitch and exploit just as much as anyone, really. They insult team members for not performing, and they ridicule guides where players demonstrate other ideals not conducive to their own. And for some reason, they are extremely dismissive of others, including other classes and gamestyles ... just as much as everyone else.
All in all, the worst of the PvE community is no worse than the worse of the PvP community. It's still the same selfish, immature and obnoxious type of folks, just with a different gamestyle.
Luckily, there are plenty who sit in the middle, either enjoying one more than the other or both equally, who are just here to have fun and good times.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Nah... you cannot be serious
It's the beloved&hated MMO treadmill... the power creep. You get more stats, mobs get bigger and badder and (hopefully) with new abilities and so on.
You farm more, you crit better, you last longer, whatever...
Ideally, by the time you have BiS gear, new expansion is released with yet another set of dungeons containing yet another tier of gear to go for and desire. Also not all games have the same <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> "more mobs and more red zones" lazy dungeon design.
That is a freaking awesome question.
I PvE to hang with friends. In many ways, I sorta suck at most MMOs, 'cause I don't really care about stats and stuff; what since my characters only have to be good enough to kick the crud out of the AI. But yeah, it's mostly just to raid with and hang out with other players. The farming point throws me off, because I'm not beyond the amount that the game itself makes me do (go and find ten of whatever to finish quest sort of things.)
I'd say that I'm here to RP as well, but to be honest, that's a different beast. I do RP with friends when questing and stuff, but we're just as likely to just joke around.
That I guess is what I get out of PvE. I'm not sure if that's what everyone else gets...
I draw as Masamundane.
My point was that you define average, yet your taking what as your base of measurement? Me and my friends? The thousands of PvP focused gamers I've hung out with in large gaming circles across how many span of years? You are intimately experienced with that crowd, a member, who sees them for who they are and what they are, to make that 'average' assumption?
I'm saying you are taking bad experiences, and making them the average. This would be the same as a PvPer saying that every PvEr is secretly a coward who can't handle a little competition and friendly joking amongst adults, and who is so insecure in their game that they can't stand anyone else being involved without their say.
I've heard that assumption before, and when I've heard it, I've put it down too. For what it is. A baseless, false assumption. The 'average' PvEr (as I once was, being against PvP in all forms when I was younger) is not a coward. They just want a casual game experience. They aren't against competition, they just choose not to partake in it all the time. They aren't insecure, they just have a choice and have made it.
I'm preaching tolerance and respect, is what I'm doing. I'm standing on a soapbox, with an army of friends (and enemies, so it stands) behind me who argue that there is plenty of middle ground.
And in NWO, there is a middle ground. I would argue against anyone who would propose open pvp all the time here in NWO. I argue against requiring PvP by the playerbase (I do not see a daily OPTIONAL quest as a requirement, no matter how much the individuals greed feels it is).
I do feel that NWO's combat engine, and development staff, can support a fun and enticing PvP experience (something Wizards of the Coast intended with the 4e revisions, by the way; online gaming and competitive online gaming, that is). And I would like if it did get a bit more flavor.
But I won't oppose the addition of new dungeons, just like nobody in Prototype or Silent Blade or UnS or any number of great PvP guilds would. They play just as many dungeons and skirmishes as anybody. And there are a lot of us who are in GG everytime we can and run Arena PvP over and over again who can tell you the backstory on why Lord Neverember is on the throne and that Malabog was nothing but a puppet. They pay attention.
To assume, in general, that the average PvPer does not care? That's just something people make up to support their selfish intents, nothing more.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Don't we all?
I don't like it when I kill a dragon and some gear drops that my slave would snub his nose at, though.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
1. PvE and PvP aren't mutually exclusive play styles. I enjoy both. Many other players do as well. A term such as "the average PvPer" is pretty much meaningless.
2. PvE in an MMO is fun in the way that combat in single player or coop games can be fun. Team up (or don't), unlock and use your powers and abilities, achieve objectives, read some text, and get more shinies. If your only preference for game play style is direct competition against another player, then obviously none of the above will appeal.
3. PvP is fun because it provides faster-paced combat with a greater focus on strategy and reaction. Most game content is 5 players against dozens of NPCs. It's very different to go up against a handful of (possibly) equally strong and skilled PCs.
4. Both play styles should be supported and as seamlessly (and optionally) linked as possible for maximum player base enjoyment. It's up to the devs to come up with satisfactory ways to balance for PvP without accidentally and needlessly diminishing PvE gameplay.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
+1
You have my ... um ... sword-that-happens-to-look-like-an-axe?
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
In my personal opinion it is unimmersive that clerics, rogues and wizards are participating in arena fights on a regular basis. Clerics and rogues are simply no fighter classes. They have other strengths (and yes, even your 'assassin' would get down by his wounds taken because of not wearing armor). And my picture of wizards is that most of them are either not interested and/or weaklings and busy studying or way too powerful to fit into a battleground/arena. They would let others or their minions do the dirty job instead.
So enjoy the pvp here if you like, but bare in mind that it is very far away from a true rp setting.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
It is hosted by PWE, which focuses on PvE.
It is based on Dungeons & Dragons, which has been fully PvE (last time I checked) for decades.
And you want this game to be fully PvP?
*throws tomato at you*
This is the only thing I stand against.
If you like PvP, that's fine. It's up to you.
But PvP zones which have any form of PvE are a no-no-no to me.
In my experience the only way to populate those zones to the contentment of the PvP crowd is to give superior drops and rewards for doing PvE activities in a PvP zone.
To me this is like having a bunch of happy sheep in their pen contentedly eating grass...but then adding in a system where the grass really is greener on the other side but telling them they have to be subject to the risk of being eaten by the wolves. This is something most PvE players don't enjoy.
Content like that exists to feed the wolves (PvP Players) and hurt the sheep.
Players should be allowed to play whatever they like to their heart's content short of the fact this is a PvE game so skipping to max level and gear because you just want to PvP is not an option as it would kill the PvE side of the game.
I don't mind if additonal content is added for PvP...
But I don't agree with more maps or PvP Zones being required.
Making the PvP less of a mess of mismatched groups should be the priority. That's the main issue which plagues PvP...it's not fun to have no chance of winning or no chance of losing all the time and no way to predict which.
Adding in more maps won't fix what prevents NW's PvP from being as good as it can be. If you already enjoy it, great, but there's a dire need to make it enjoyable to those who like to have more competitive and less steamrolling matches.
All your replies have good info....but there is ONE STATEMENT...that nearly made me fall off my chair....."It is hosted by PWE that focuses on PVE"
SAY WHAT?????
Please go try PWI,Forsaken World, or ANY of their other games for a WEEK.
Jeez, ppl wold just BLAST any kinda nonsense these days-__-
The majority of my time was spent grinding in order to even get to the main city + exploring, in PWI, and crafting and socializing while questing - and, thus, grinding - as well as exploring...in FW.
Show me when, exactly, those games turned into slaughterhouses. I'd like to see it - because despite years of playing both games, even through Sebestimation, I've never seen PvP as a major thing...even in the chats.
--
Now, I would understand it if you stated Cryptic was more PvP, since that IS an option, but taking CoH for example...you have to go through, what, how many areas in order to get to the other faction's lands and PvP them?
Statistics, actual game names, etc. NOW.
This is D&D. Even if SOME games rely more on a PvP base, D&D has always been PvE and the fanbase for D&D - which is honestly overwhelming - will always make up for any drops in game population due to PvP being erased.
But that isn't the issue here. The issue is that we have people, like the OP, that want to eliminate PvE...from a game based on a 100% PvE franchise. It's never going to happen.