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Please add a "Greed Only" loot mode!
bioshrike
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,729 Arc User
I've been on many dungeon teams where the group initially agrees to choose "greed only" on epic items, and invariably someone "accidentally" chooses need, thereby throwing the whole team dynamic off - I have no doubt that sometimes it's an accident, but other times it's an intentional ploy. A "greed only" loot mode would help keep people honest, so to speak, and if a team is built on the premise of giving everyone a fair chance at all epic loot, then greed is the only way to ensure that.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::>
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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My rule has always been "Need it if you need it" but I've run into too many people who seem to think that since they "need" the AD they should need the gear.
While we're on the subject though, with the assumption that this is implemented, the party should also be able to vote on what loot distribution they want. In the event that the party leader doesn't want to use "Greed Only" the party should be able to overrule him/her.
Loot distribution rules should be a party decision rather than purely luck of the draw whether the leader, often randomly assigned, wants to do what the rest of the party does or not.
If we're talking about team voting, then we need to address the bigger issue of leaders being able to kick party members, as well as leadership getting shifted around when zoning between maps, as well...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
So many little things that could make the game even more enjoyable. It's hard to say one of these smaller aspects without starting the "might as wells," as my grandfather calls them, of all the smaller things which could greatly improve every player's gaming experience.
I like the idea though, it's happend far too often that I lost purples that dropped from the mini bosses to players that rolled need on the final boss item.
I disagree. I only have two lvl 60 characters and not a single piece of T2 equipment, and I still don't agree. I believe that there are far more important things in this game to fix than this. The only caveat would be that, if something like this went in then the loot mode should be votable (leader has decider only if necessary). I believe in democracy. If the majority of my teammates want to get rid of the "need" option for that run, so be it. Otherwise, I like it. After all, I've got to be able to use it to 'need' it.
"Young people....." - Erik Lehnsherr
That's the thing, "need" should only be used if you plan on using it.
Being able to use it doesn't stop a person from using need to have an increased (if not guaranteed) chance of getting an item simply to sell an item. This type of behavior is very unfair to the rest of the party.
Ideally "need" should result in a bound to character item but for whatever reason the developers seem to not want to implement this (based on the fact it's been asked for since launch and has not been implemented) so if they'd be willing to implement a "greed only" option I'll take it.
Because "needing" to sell is not an acceptable practice.
Unfair to the rest of the party? Why? Other items they can need that I can't, they can click the same thing I click. Your way sounds a bit too Orwellian to me.
Given that my main is, apparently, the least popular class in NW and I can't remember the last time I saw two of me (as I often see Wizards or others) in a PUG, I quite prefer it the way it is. If "greed only" is votable, I'll put up and shut up. But if your idea is forced upon me that would be one of those things that will have me leaving.
The need resulting in BoP rather than BoE sounded like a fair compromise. But in the hububb of frenetic dungeon delving etc, I'm not sure it would be workable. Still, I would grudgingly accept it rather than the Gordon Gekko speech.
"Young people....." - Erik Lehnsherr
That's the general rule of thumb. If you are planning on selling it then the polite and respectful thing to do is "greed" on it. That's what I would hold you to in any group I run in. That's the courtesy I afford you and what I demand in return.
I don't care if the item drop is for my class or not. We're all doing the dungeon. We all get an equal chance.
If you were supposed to need on everything the option to need wouldn't be there, it would simply say "hey there's only one GF in the group, give him the drop, screw the rest!"
Need on something if you need it. Greed if you want to sell it.
This is plain and simple standard practice. There's no way you haven't run into that yet.
And the reason this option is needed so badly is because people who roll on loot like you.
You don't realize it but it's actions like yours which can make blood boil and make people not want to play the game.
To cut through what is growing into something it shouldn't and correct me if I am wrong, I believe what we are actually debating here isn't what should happen (I happen to agree with that) but how to make what should happen, happen. The reason for this requirement is that fairness, common sense, maturity or whatever is seemingly missing from so many players should be addressed if objective fairness is to be achieved.
To whit, and to summarise: I agree that a greed only option is one way of doing it, but to make that fair to people that joined NW without that feature (since it would be a new feature) I believe that it's enabling should be votable. At which point I think "Greed" should then be relabelled "Want" since it would then have become the only option other than "Pass". I am also warming to the "Need" results in BoP idea. After all, if someone is actually paying attention, it shouldn't be that hard to manage....
"Young people....." - Erik Lehnsherr
the CW cant select need? = unfair
greed rule = dungeon farmers
farm with your friends not with pug
need = BOP (if i cant get the item they should also not be able to benefit from it too)
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the roll rule now is completely fine
its only a problem for the dungeon farmers
Not if the CW doesn't need it.
As I said the ideal solution would be to make needed gear BoP but the devs seem to not be in any hurry to do so.
And such a feature as suggested would be for pugs. If I am with my friends I can trust they aren't needing on gear to sell and if they are the solution is as simple as right clicking their name and removing them from my friends list.
The large majority of players are not doing dungeons for gear for their character. Even if their character is not fully equipped chances ar they are doing a dungeon that a friend of theirs needs gear and are simply tagging along because, you know, it's fun to play with friends.
Also all of my current level 60's are fully equipped but I still do dungeons basically every day. I simply enjoy doing the dungeons more than anything else in the game.
I have no problem going through a dungeon and getting no loot if the drops are needed for character progression but needing on gear to sell will have you four manning a dungeon. Period.
need = BOP = selfish
roll rules now is perfect, class priority first then roll scores
if you want to farm, farm with friends not with pugs (you can ask them to give items to you if they dont need it)
I totally agree with your suggestion. It would be another step into the right direction. It would technically cut out "ninja looting" entirely. > Both thumbs up!
You already have the ability to vote, simply leave party if the loot options (or anything else) is set in a way you do not agree with. an actual in game voting system is far too complex to be implemented, and it's only "would be nice" but totally not required.
Once again people confuse PUGs with queue groups. You're lucky if in a queue group, whoever the game randomly assigned as leader even knows how to set loot rules. In queue groups the loot would remain at the default setting anyway.
in a PUG greed only is definitely needed, it's actually the place where it's needed the most. in a guild/friend run there is no need for special loot rules as everyone rolls greed on everything already. It is only in PUGs where you are grouped with strangers you randomly recruited from /lfg chat that the issue of "oops i rolled need, my bad" even comes up. The Greed only loot option would solve that issue.
Correct. And I do. However, I do not think that this is even close to the best and most practicable solution.
"Young people....." - Erik Lehnsherr
Your other solution being, what exactly?
the only solution is always the best and most practical solution.
This is very true.
Recently, I see in zone chat, lfg CN "greed or kick". Who wants to play games with such people? Not me.
I stay far away from all greed runs. Someone threatens/intimidates/insults/demands that I choose greed, and I simply quit..
The most pleasant dungeon runs are when no one even talks about loot.
With the current setups of 2-3 CWs, we would still be very disadvantaged by Needing against 2 others CWs while the TR or DC would automatically get their class item.
Greed-only seems much better and more fair overall, but it needs to be agreed upon at start and if one doesn't like it, should not join.
And why do you keep saying" dungeon farmer" like it's something bad or like they should not be benefiting from the game? Dungeon farming is the only way to make enough AD to buy the good stuff, if you don't intend to open your wallet.
Greed and pass being the only options were how the game was released, however it was almost impossible to gear up a character at the time without praying someone else wanted your trash after they sold their trash to someone else. Wasnt fun to run DD back then and I quit for a few months because of it.
Need = I will equip it on the spot. This is an upgrade for my character and I will use it immediately, regardless of enchants I have in my bags.
If it's an immediate upgrade, it going from BoE when you rolled on it to BoP when it lands in your bags should be fine - in theory, need is something you'll use, it suddenly being bound isnt going to prevent you from using it.
Greed = It's something I would like to have, I'll sell it OR give it to one of my alts. It is not however an item I will bind on the spot, nor is it an actual upgrade for my character.
Now, I was a strong advocate of adding a need button, let people upgrade their characters etc - but even when I was asking for this feature I also asked that they please either make all items that are 'needed' bound as soon as you rolled need on them, or make all boss drops bop - leave DD chests and token items BoE. Instead, they did the exact opposite...
I don't think it's 'greedy' to ask that everyone in the DD get a fair shot at all the loot that isn't an upgrade for one of the people with them.
Everyone does their best to help on a boss, even if they may be lower or higher on the DPS meter, so everyone should get a fair and equal shot at the loot - and be able to grab upgrades for their current character when they drop.
When I run with my guild, I set loot rules to "round robin". It is so nice to never even see or hear anything about loot during a run. No need for "need", "greed" or "pass". Loot is distributed by an automatic greed roll. If you see loot on the ground it is yours. I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned this???
if there was a greed only option, then all five players get a chance at the loot. i don't know how simpler that can be worded.
if you're not grinding dungeons and NEED things, by all means... stay away from greed runs. we're not asking to make all dungeon runs GREED ONLY. we're just asking for that option. most people that i run dungeons with know it's greed on purples and need on whatever else. and when i join a pug or am putting one together, i will state "greed only please". the fact that i have to ASK this, that it isn't the NORM requires that we have the option to make a run forced as 'greed only'. this eliminates the would-be ninja looters that don't "need" the item and removes any advantage someone might have on the loot because of class.
Once MC 2/3 run as GF: After first boss down he drop loot. 1 blue and 1 purple. They picked up the purple and what is it? The Shield! 2 of them say ALL GREED! BS. I make need and won. Nice try troll into chat for explanation. Oh an item drop, that you can't roll need on it? ALL GREED! Yeah stupid idiots... lmaa(german shortcut for a phrase)
They don't say at start all greed on purple. They don't say it before we enter first boss. And they don't say it before they loot it. So don't vote for a BS system. Group vote for lootrule? BS! In my situation all 4 vote for change and then im the stupid idiot. The lootrule should be stayed BEFORE entering Dungeon. NOT while. Stupid and cheating people would be to easy! And you are ABLE to change the lootrule as leader before you group for a dungeon!
It's about taking class out of the equation. If you need an item and truly need it I'm happy to hand it off...
But the limitation on need rolls to only be available to players who can actually use those items wasn't a limitation to make classes get guaranteed loot.
Certainly parties should dictate those rules before the start but all in all this is standard. This isn't about "greed runs."
The problem is that people simply don't understand that just because your class can use an item doesn't mean you should be "needing" on the item. Need exists so that you can have it if you need it, as in you plan to use it now or immediately after the dungeon.
Need doesn't exist so that you can be guaranteed an item to sell or salvage. That's abusing the feature.
That's the true definition of greedy.
And if we could trust that people would abide by the simple concept of only needing on gear that their specific character needs and not for any greed purposes (selling or giving to an alt/friend) then this topic wouldn't even have come up.
I did a dungeon where I laid out the simple rule "need on items you actually need" and this <censored>'s response when he needed an item was "I need the AD" as if the rest of the party doesn't.
That's unacceptable. I don't like having to restrict people from needing on items but I'd rather give an item to somebody who needs it after the fact than trust that they aren't being greedy with the need button.
I believe there would be an overwhelming vote for a Greed loot mode option since this is what is very often used in the endgame.
That should be the priority for developers, as there are many reports about people leaving instances and loot rolls not continuing
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
You had one bad experience, it happens. Compare that against the dozens of times each day that people roll need on gear that they don't need and only want for sale purposes and you'll see that there's a valid reason for having an all greed system.